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LSUALUM99
06-07-2007, 11:25 AM
I thought about this after my post in another thread.

What value to you put on Dmarcus Ware vs. say running back?

For instance would you trade DWare for another running back in the league straight up like say Larry Johnson or LT?

To me, the only RB in the league that I would consider trading a premier player like Ware for would be LT. However, given the tandem of MBIII and JJ I wouldn't make a trade for LT with DWare straight up. The tandem of MBIII and JJ accounted for 1,738 yards, 4.32 yards per carry, 338 yards receiving, and 20 TD's. All of this for less money than a premier RB and more injury resistance. I personally LOVE our RB tandem's production. I like the flexibility of it and the fact that if one guy gets hurt we have a very capable backup.

To that end, why is everyone so enamoured with McFadden next year. Yes, he's a bonafide stud, but I would be extremely pissed if we used 2 1st round picks on him next year. Even at a bonafide stud level can you expect more than 2k yards from scrimmage, 20Td's and a 4.32 yard average? If you expect more than that how much better are you going to get? All of this at the expense of the production of 2 number 1's at other positions.

How much better would the team be with a #1 Receiver and a #1 NT and the current production at RB than with slightly better production at the RB position?

Macarthur
06-07-2007, 11:41 AM
I thought about this after my post in another thread.

What value to you put on Dmarcus Ware vs. say running back?


Ware is more valuable with maybe the exception of LT.


For instance would you trade DWare for another running back in the league straight up like say Larry Johnson or LT?

Maybe. I probably would not though.


To that end, why is everyone so enamoured with McFadden next year. Yes, he's a bonafide stud, but I would be extremely pissed if we used 2 1st round picks on him next year. Even at a bonafide stud level can you expect more than 2k yards from scrimmage, 20Td's and a 4.32 yard average? If you expect more than that how much better are you going to get? All of this at the expense of the production of 2 number 1's at other positions.

How about Ware and McFadden!?

How much better would the team be with a #1 Receiver and a #1 NT and the current production at RB than with slightly better production at the RB position?

I don't think you should ever draft WR in the first unless it's a once in a lifetime freak like Calvin Johnson.

I think it's hard to say what this team will need for next year's draft until we see them play this year. There's been lots of talk about how Wade uses NT's differently than Bill. We may not need a NT by the end of this year. However, with Julius entering his last year on this contract, it appears right now that RB will be a need.

robert_in_bigd
06-07-2007, 12:01 PM
Speaking of CJ he is supposedly freaking people out in Detroit with how good he is.

KILLERSANTA
06-07-2007, 02:00 PM
LJ won't even get 1300 yards next year... Mark It Down



Even with 500 million carries!

LSUALUM99
06-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Macarthur,

You said "how about Ware and McFadden!?" --- We already have Ware.... if you read the paragraph you are answering you will see that I'm saying that we have excellent production from the RB spot already so why spend 2 first rounders on McFadden. The question about Ware is simply to illustrate that a player like Ware is agruably more valuable than any RB in the league (provided your current alternative is also decent at the RB position).

Modano
06-07-2007, 03:03 PM
Macarthur,

You said "how about Ware and McFadden!?" --- We already have Ware.... if you read the paragraph you are answering you will see that I'm saying that we have excellent production from the RB spot already so why spend 2 first rounders on McFadden. The question about Ware is simply to illustrate that a player like Ware is agruably more valuable than any RB in the league (provided your current alternative is also decent at the RB position).

I don't know. I really like how our tandem is performing, but McFadden would add a big time player to the team, someone who could carry a team on his shoulder. I don't think we have this type of player, we can hope Romo could turn into something like that...

Macarthur
06-07-2007, 03:13 PM
Macarthur,

You said "how about Ware and McFadden!?"

We already have Ware....

I know.


if you read the paragraph you are answering you will see that I'm saying that we have excellent production from the RB spot already so why spend 2 first rounders on McFadden.

I agree, but JJ is at the end of his contract. If you can replace JJ with McFadden, you do that every time.


The question about Ware is simply to illustrate that a player like Ware is agruably more valuable than any RB in the league (provided your current alternative is also decent at the RB position).

We are on the same page.

LSUALUM99
06-07-2007, 07:57 PM
I agree, but JJ is at the end of his contract. If you can replace JJ with McFadden, you do that every time.






I'm not saying you don't replace JJ with McFadden if it's a one for one deal. What I'm trying to illustrate is that even LT isn't worth 2 first round draft picks if you can already get 2k yards from scrimmage and 20 td's from your current roster.

So, why not go say, Johnathan Stewart (with the first first round draft pick) and another 1st round talent instead of getting McFadden.

McFadden might, and that's a big might, be worth 2 firsts if we didn't have MBIII but do you want to spend 2 firsts on a guy that isn't going to play on third downs and in goal line situations? If he is going to play there then you are giving up on MBIII which I see no reason to do either.

So in conclusion, I think drafting McFadden, if it costs more than 1 first round draft pick, is a TERRIBLE idea.

dc4life
06-07-2007, 09:30 PM
Ware = our franchise player. Nothing less than 2 first rounders! :)

leroyisgod
06-08-2007, 07:49 AM
Ware is probably the most important piece of our defense and possibly our team right now. I'd only trade him for likes of a Peyton Manning or LT.

Splat
06-08-2007, 07:55 AM
LJ won't even get 1300 yards next year... Mark It Down


People said that last year as well nice try.

Macarthur
06-08-2007, 01:09 PM
I'm not saying you don't replace JJ with McFadden if it's a one for one deal. What I'm trying to illustrate is that even LT isn't worth 2 first round draft picks if you can already get 2k yards from scrimmage and 20 td's from your current roster.

So, why not go say, Johnathan Stewart (with the first first round draft pick) and another 1st round talent instead of getting McFadden.

McFadden might, and that's a big might, be worth 2 firsts if we didn't have MBIII but do you want to spend 2 firsts on a guy that isn't going to play on third downs and in goal line situations? If he is going to play there then you are giving up on MBIII which I see no reason to do either.

So in conclusion, I think drafting McFadden, if it costs more than 1 first round draft pick, is a TERRIBLE idea.

Well, I don't know if you can answer that until more attention is given to next year's draft and we find out just what is there.

D-Unit
06-08-2007, 03:37 PM
I don't know how Ware fits into the conversation about wanting McFadden. I think people are talking about McFadden because we have first round picks to utilize. I wouldn't give up Ware for McFadden though.... but that's kind of besides the point, I don't think it would even be possible. I don't think Ware would get us a top 3-5 pick in the first round next year.

LSUALUM99
06-08-2007, 05:57 PM
It's part of the discussion based on the value of a RB.

My point is that, given the success of the running game of the players we currently have, I wouldn't make a trade Dware for LT straight up. If we were terrible running the ball then maybe. It's not like if you had LT you would get much more than 2k yards from scrimmage a 4.32 average and 20 TDs. So, if you made a trade of say Ware for LT straight up you'd lose 10-15 sacks a year from that position and gain maybe 20 more yards rushing a game.

I use LT as the example because people seem to think it's wise to trade 2 first round draft picks and move up to get McFadden next year. To me, RB is the easiest position to get decent production out of. We're already getting top 10 production from that spot. Why on earth is everyone so enamoured with getting McFadden.

Has anyone here ever heard of The Law of Diminishing Returns?

KILLERSANTA
06-08-2007, 07:12 PM
I value Ware as much as my right hand......









PS i Don't have a girlfriend

thule
06-08-2007, 07:22 PM
I get your point LSU. My question to you is..if JJ and MB3 put up about the same production...I believe MB3's contract is up in 09 and JJ in 08....if we want to keep our tandem are we gonna have 2 big time free agent resignings...or pick up McFadden who would be less than the too of them combined. I'm with you on your arguement..and I don't think McFadden is worth 2 firsts...however I do think addressing a RB on the first day is something we should do because...FA running backs scare me...tying down JJ for an extended period of time isn't a bad idea but it also gives us a RB going into his thirty's in the biggest part of his contract...thats what I don't like about it. RB depth is great this year...so I'm sure we'll get someone. Hell who knows...maybe JJ goes off since he isn't suppose to be running like a robot this year. No matter what RB is a big need going into 08...it'll be decision time...much like QB situation.

KILLERSANTA
06-08-2007, 07:26 PM
People said that last year as well nice try.

just wait.......

dc4life
06-08-2007, 08:16 PM
People said that last year as well nice try.

The only way I don't see him getting 1300+ yards is if he holds out. You got any news on this? I got the 3rd pick in one of my fantasy leagues this year and its between Steven Jackson and Larry Johnson right now.

Splat
06-08-2007, 08:19 PM
just wait.......

I will you don't know LJ he is far from done the guy will only be 27 he has had 892 carries LT has had over 2000 you do the math people are so over reacting to how much he got the ball last year. I mean come on he has only started one full season he is in his prime will he have a long career no but he has a good few years left. I know are line is not what it once was but LJ is one of the best RB's in the league at making some thing out of nothing only LT is better IMO.

BX
06-09-2007, 01:19 AM
How often do we get the opportunity to grab a top 5 caliber running back?

D-Unit
06-09-2007, 03:13 AM
It's way to early to even think of what to do with our first rounders. But McFadden is a nice thought. Personally, I think we need to go OT with one of those picks, but you guys will probably think I'm crazy after drafting Free and Marten.

SuperKevin
06-09-2007, 03:22 AM
It's way to early to even think of what to do with our first rounders. But McFadden is a nice thought. Personally, I think we need to go OT with one of those picks, but you guys will probably think I'm crazy after drafting Free and Marten.

I wouldn't say you're crazy because I don't think either of them have LT potential. Free reminds me of a less talented Daryn Colledge and he was moved to guard. Marten could be a solid RT. Dallas would be smart to use one of their 1st rounders on a LT like Sam Baker or Barry Richardson

LSUALUM99
06-09-2007, 11:38 AM
Thule--

I actually think that MBIII and JJ combined would cost less than a top 3 pick in the NFL draft with less guaranteed money to boot.

I do agree that we should go with a RB on the first day. In fact, I'm not opposed to going RB in the first round but I just think that the idea that we're going to use the two firsts to get McFadden is a terrible idea.

I like the idea of getting a stud LT with the first pick. Free or McQuistan may be that guy this year (we'll just have to see) but who knows.

If Romo turns out to be sub par for the year I think you have to consider trading the two firsts for Brohm if need be also.

thule
06-10-2007, 03:47 PM
Our FS position is going to be interesting to watch this year. If Hamlin is only average..and Watkins still hasn't grasp his job...Phillips might be a guy that is worth giving up some picks for. He is probably my number 1 prospect I'll be watching this year.

Gribble
06-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Just hope that the Browns really suck this year... hehehehe

LonghornsLegend
06-12-2007, 04:44 PM
it amazes me how many people talk about a player who hasnt been drafted yet like mcfadden, as if every team wouldnt like to make a move to have him

M.O.T.H.
06-12-2007, 07:44 PM
Most teams would jump at the chance to draft him.

FinChase
06-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Just hope that the Browns really suck this year... hehehehe

And that we don't! :D

LSUALUM99
06-13-2007, 10:15 AM
it amazes me how many people talk about a player who hasnt been drafted yet like mcfadden, as if every team wouldnt like to make a move to have him

Yes that is true. But the question that is being posed is what is a RB worth?

I brought up Ware because he was the 11th pick of the draft. We should have at least a top 15 pick from Cleveland. It begs the question of how much a RB, by nature, is worth.

For instance, Emmitt Smith was great. But would you give up DMarcus Ware and JJ and MBIII to get him in the draft?

I don't think even Emmitt was worth that much, if and only if, you already have a top 10 Rushing attack as a team.

Finlayson56
06-18-2007, 04:24 PM
I value Ware as much as my right hand......








PS i Don't have a girlfriend

I value Ware as much as my left nut...........

HEISMANHERSCHEL
06-20-2007, 03:05 AM
I would say pass rush is the key to a defense, period. Good pass rush, defensive backs look good. No pass rush, defensive backs get beat.

Using this basic theory, Ware is themost valuable player on the defense. And one could make an arguement he is top 3 most valuable players on the team.

I think he is gonna tee-off on quarterbacks this year.


Or should I say, I hope...