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ONUV
06-09-2007, 02:06 PM
The disparity between what the scholarships are worth and the amount of money that these student athletes bring to their universities is appalling. These students are taking the time that most students work part time at near minimum wage and laying it all on the line for their university varsity team. Everyone agrees that most universities have been less than stellar at graduating high profile student athletes. Why not tie the two together to achieve a common goal?

http://www.fanblogs.com/ncaa/007012.php

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-09-2007, 02:12 PM
no they're getting a great education.

gbpackers0065
06-09-2007, 02:15 PM
What about the Valedictorian who gos on to be rich and donates back to the school? Should he be payed?

sweetness34
06-09-2007, 02:18 PM
Hmmm, this is tempting. Ok I give in: (although these will be brief and blunt)

1) Already have full ride schollies (free education)

2) Trickle down effect to High School

3) Greed

4) Professionalizing College Sports

5) Damaging a great tradition of sporting

6) Paying all those who bring in money for the University

Off the top of my head those are my points against paying college athletes, and if you want me to expand on them I will but their pretty self explanatory.

I don't mind monthly stipends so they can get their necessities but I am strongly opposed to paying college athletes, and I have first hand experience on this topic because I play college sports.

sweetness34
06-09-2007, 02:20 PM
What about the Valedictorian who gos on to be rich and donates back to the school? Should he be payed?

What about the first chair violin player who works hard at her hobby/activity? He/She brings in money for the university through concerts. If you pay athletes you have to start paying drama members, band members, orchestra members, etc...It's not fair if you don't.

princefielder28
06-09-2007, 02:30 PM
They are getting paid: it's called a FREE education

Ravens1991
06-09-2007, 02:34 PM
I go back and forth on this topic. Yea they get a ton of $ for FREE education, that amount up to the 5 digit sums for all the years. But say a player grew up in poverty and his parents cant afford to send him $ to buy tooth paste and things like that. I think there should be a special program that a athlete w/ a scholarship can apply for "needs money" Which they get the money to buy toothpaste and so on. But the kids who grew up in a gated community and there parents have 6 BMWs dont get that $.

gbpackers0065
06-09-2007, 02:34 PM
What about the first chair violin player who works hard at her hobby/activity? He/She brings in money for the university through concerts. If you pay athletes you have to start paying drama members, band members, orchestra members, etc...It's not fair if you don't.

Exactly, why should only athletes get paid when there are students who work just as hard (if not harder) than the athlete does.

sweetness34
06-09-2007, 02:46 PM
I go back and forth on this topic. Yea they get a ton of $ for FREE education, that amount up to the 5 digit sums for all the years. But say a player grew up in poverty and his parents cant afford to send him $ to buy tooth paste and things like that. I think there should be a special program that a athlete w/ a scholarship can apply for "needs money" Which they get the money to buy toothpaste and so on. But the kids who grew up in a gated community and there parents have 6 BMWs dont get that $.

And they do get stipends for things they need, but I think they should raise it a bit from where it is. I just don't like the salary idea at all.

ONUV
06-09-2007, 02:54 PM
you think the degrees they're getting are really "great" educations? the coaches want them to do as little as possible in the classroom.

Komp
06-09-2007, 03:06 PM
you think the degrees they're getting are really "great" educations? the coaches want them to do as little as possible in the classroom.

The VAST majority of college athletes will never play professional sports. If I were them I would be spending a lot of time studying/in the classroom. Between the free education/room/board and the connections they make with alumni/other important people from being on the team the universities give student athletes all the tools to succeed in the real world...

gbpackers0065
06-09-2007, 03:26 PM
you think the degrees they're getting are really "great" educations? the coaches want them to do as little as possible in the classroom.

your an idiot there are plenty of division I, II , and III athletes who value school over athletics

Shane P. Hallam
06-09-2007, 03:34 PM
The fact is, they get a lot of extra money. As I've said before, this past summer I was an RA for some of the incoming freshman football players. They got money for books that was ridiculously high, upwards of $500. It was a flat payment on their BuckID for books, but about $300 more than I've ever spent in a quarter on books, and when the guys take classes like "Hip-Hop Dance," etc, they aren't even using that money. One guy ended up buying shoes with most of his money. So, there are ways they are getting some extra cash for the essentials. They get free food, free room, and past that, many things are doable with this cash.

MaxV
06-09-2007, 04:19 PM
Going to college is a priveledge, not a right.

No, they shouldn't be paid.

someone447
06-09-2007, 04:36 PM
I go back and forth on this issue too. They bring in a LOT of money to the school, and my roommates would leave for class at 9 am and not get home until 6-7 pm. It is a full time job at a D1 school.

Without a doubt they need to increase the stipend they get.

sweetness34
06-09-2007, 06:04 PM
I go back and forth on this issue too. They bring in a LOT of money to the school, and my roommates would leave for class at 9 am and not get home until 6-7 pm. It is a full time job at a D1 school.

Without a doubt they need to increase the stipend they get.

And that's fine, but giving them a salary, aka a cut of the profit I don't agree with.

Severe Punishment
06-09-2007, 06:12 PM
They can be paid...that's fine. Of course then they'd have to pay to go to school (and if you don't sign up for at least 15 credits..you get dropped from the team).

Then they can be paid based on production...so the 2nd string QB who was going to be redshirted...now has to either learn how to play an additional position or there's no way he's going to sit the bench for 1/3 the salary (example) as say the starter.

...see where this is going ?

It's not broke, so don't attempt to "fix" it..
Plus with insurance companies almost falling overthemselves to insure these kids against major injury...this was a non point years ago.

...how about our next debate be over the wheel...or fire and whether or not it benefits society.

Severe Punishment
06-09-2007, 06:16 PM
I go back and forth on this issue too. They bring in a LOT of money to the school, and my roommates would leave for class at 9 am and not get home until 6-7 pm. It is a full time job at a D1 school.

Without a doubt they need to increase the stipend they get.
First off....there is no law that says these kids MUST play football.
If they're there for the education then perhaps they should all be "forced"
to pay back the cost of their "free" education...then they could be charged for use of the teams facilities...lights, heat, cleaning supplies and services..ect ect ect.

Trust me..they get paid they just don't recieve their payments in the form of a check.

Don Vito
06-09-2007, 06:16 PM
No no no. There is already not enough incentive for athletes to focus on education in HS and college, this would just make it worse.

VY10
06-09-2007, 06:45 PM
The disparity between what the scholarships are worth and the amount of money that these student athletes bring to their universities is appalling. These students are taking the time that most students work part time at near minimum wage and laying it all on the line for their university varsity team. Everyone agrees that most universities have been less than stellar at graduating high profile student athletes. Why not tie the two together to achieve a common goal?

http://www.fanblogs.com/ncaa/007012.php

Scholarship = payment. "We give you a free education for playing for our football team." Paying college players to play football will never happen.

VY10
06-09-2007, 06:46 PM
First off....there is no law that says these kids MUST play football.
If they're there for the education then perhaps they should all be "forced"
to pay back the cost of their "free" education...then they could be charged for use of the teams facilities...lights, heat, cleaning supplies and services..ect ect ect.

Trust me..they get paid they just don't recieve their payments in the form of a check.

Very true. It is fair to say that almost every single major college football program has alumni/boosters that give these guys sweet summer jobs and maybe drop some coin in their mailbox every now and then.

Green Bay Scat
06-09-2007, 06:51 PM
Masterbation should be an official sport, but you dont see them bitchin

someone447
06-09-2007, 07:09 PM
First off....there is no law that says these kids MUST play football.
If they're there for the education then perhaps they should all be "forced"
to pay back the cost of their "free" education...then they could be charged for use of the teams facilities...lights, heat, cleaning supplies and services..ect ect ect.

Trust me..they get paid they just don't recieve their payments in the form of a check.

Trust me, what they get paid is not enough for what they do. I roomed with 4 UTEP players this past year, 2 have had knee surgery(one of them twice), and one is well on his way to needing it. Tell me what the violinist has to worry about that will affect his/her life after football? I understand not wanting to give them a salary, but a larger stipend would sure help them out.

Like I said they are gone 9am-6pm with very little breaks in between. Having class, then they go eat, then lift, then meetings, then practice, then the linemen had some more meetings. They get a small stipend now, but they need to give them a larger one.

Or how about give all athletes at each division the same amount, regardless of the sport or production. I haven't been an athlete yet(NEXT YEAR!!) and I haven't taken more than 12 hours a semester. That is considered a full time student, so the athletes shouldn't have to take any more than that, which, SUPRISE!!! is the rule. Leinhart was an exception, because he had already graduated, so he didn't have other classes to take.

Everyone is up in arms about Oden's schedule, but every one of his classes are required classes. It looked an awful lot like my schedule my freshman year.

dabears10
06-09-2007, 11:20 PM
Trust me, what they get paid is not enough for what they do. I roomed with 4 UTEP players this past year, 2 have had knee surgery(one of them twice), and one is well on his way to needing it. Tell me what the violinist has to worry about that will affect his/her life after football? I understand not wanting to give them a salary, but a larger stipend would sure help them out.

Like I said they are gone 9am-6pm with very little breaks in between. Having class, then they go eat, then lift, then meetings, then practice, then the linemen had some more meetings. They get a small stipend now, but they need to give them a larger one.

Or how about give all athletes at each division the same amount, regardless of the sport or production. I haven't been an athlete yet(NEXT YEAR!!) and I haven't taken more than 12 hours a semester. That is considered a full time student, so the athletes shouldn't have to take any more than that, which, SUPRISE!!! is the rule. Leinhart was an exception, because he had already graduated, so he didn't have other classes to take.

Everyone is up in arms about Oden's schedule, but every one of his classes are required classes. It looked an awful lot like my schedule my freshman year.

My roommate is in Athletic Training. He puts in the same, if not more hours then the football players do. He gets there before they are there and leaves after they do a majority of the time as well as taking 15-18 hours of courses. ALL of the trainers have to do this so while they are paying to go to school and having to do all of this UNPAID why are they not giving money?

someone447
06-10-2007, 12:07 AM
My roommate is in Athletic Training. He puts in the same, if not more hours then the football players do. He gets there before they are there and leaves after they do a majority of the time as well as taking 15-18 hours of courses. ALL of the trainers have to do this so while they are paying to go to school and having to do all of this UNPAID why are they not giving money?

Good question. I think they should be too. But they also don't have to worry about life changing injuries.

BigJohn98
06-10-2007, 12:56 AM
No they shouldn't. They're getting a full ride through school.

Severe Punishment
06-10-2007, 01:05 AM
you think the degrees they're getting are really "great" educations? the coaches want them to do as little as possible in the classroom.
You can lead a horse to water....


All the Universities (or society for that matter) is offer the opportunity.
After that, it's up to the individual to determine if it's "worth it".
...and exactly what would the alternantive be if there were no programs
put in place for these kids ? ...I mean there are only so many janitors and
McDonalds employees needed.

Severe Punishment
06-10-2007, 01:21 AM
Trust me, what they get paid is not enough for what they do. I roomed with 4 UTEP players this past year, 2 have had knee surgery(one of them twice), and one is well on his way to needing it. Tell me what the violinist has to worry about that will affect his/her life after football? I understand not wanting to give them a salary, but a larger stipend would sure help them out.
Not enough ? If they were injured while playing football, then the players don't even need insurance themselves. The U picks those things up.
If not the U "officially" then the boosters money "somehow" manages to take care of those bills. They recieve educations that cost most students upwards of 50-80 grand a year (multiply by the # of years attending the schools) which only covers tuition and books.
They also recieve food vouchers, rooms, supplies..ect ect.
Furthermore they're "big men" on campuses..constant invites to parties, girls (or guys) constantly throwin 18 year old coochie on them...though this holds no "monitary" value..trust me non of them are turning it down.
I'm curious as to what actual argument you have for this.
I"m assuming you have facts figures and costs for all of this and a better arguement than "the University is getting money for it".


Like I said they are gone 9am-6pm with very little breaks in between. Having class, then they go eat, then lift, then meetings, then practice, then the linemen had some more meetings. They get a small stipend now, but they need to give them a larger one.
Is this anything more than a statement ? I'm sorry are we supposed to feel bad for these kids ???? Like I've stated before.
1) football isnt neccesary for them. It's a privilage that will benefit them in
more ways than not having it there for them.
2) If you don't like it, perhaps you should organize a protest to hault college athletics until they recieve payment....or better yet stop being a hypocrite by watching them.

Or how about give all athletes at each division the same amount, regardless of the sport or production. I haven't been an athlete yet(NEXT YEAR!!) Your basis is that the football players "earn" the Universities money....so why exactly should the Chess team get the same flat rate. This is just so ignorant on so many levels it's not funny.
I do see though..that this is just you trying to dip your hand in the cookie jar. Thanks for the insight on that.

and I haven't taken more than 12 hours a semester. That is considered a full time student, so the athletes shouldn't have to take any more than that, which, SUPRISE!!! is the rule. Leinhart was an exception, because he had already graduated, so he didn't have other classes to take. These kids also get individual tutoring while on the road (another expendature they're not required to pay for...hell some have the tutors do their work for them so they can go party) I'd like to know
if the "violin player" should also recieve the same personalized tutor service (free of charge of course) to travel with her/him while she decides to go to the lake for the weekend.

someone447
06-10-2007, 04:27 AM
Not enough ? If they were injured while playing football, then the players don't even need insurance themselves. The U picks those things up.
If not the U "officially" then the boosters money "somehow" manages to take care of those bills. They recieve educations that cost most students upwards of 50-80 grand a year (multiply by the # of years attending the schools) which only covers tuition and books.
They also recieve food vouchers, rooms, supplies..ect ect.
Furthermore they're "big men" on campuses..constant invites to parties, girls (or guys) constantly throwin 18 year old coochie on them...though this holds no "monitary" value..trust me non of them are turning it down.
I'm curious as to what actual argument you have for this.
I"m assuming you have facts figures and costs for all of this and a better arguement than "the University is getting money for it".



Is this anything more than a statement ? I'm sorry are we supposed to feel bad for these kids ???? Like I've stated before.
1) football isnt neccesary for them. It's a privilage that will benefit them in
more ways than not having it there for them.
2) If you don't like it, perhaps you should organize a protest to hault college athletics until they recieve payment....or better yet stop being a hypocrite by watching them.

Your basis is that the football players "earn" the Universities money....so why exactly should the Chess team get the same flat rate. This is just so ignorant on so many levels it's not funny.
I do see though..that this is just you trying to dip your hand in the cookie jar. Thanks for the insight on that.

These kids also get individual tutoring while on the road (another expendature they're not required to pay for...hell some have the tutors do their work for them so they can go party) I'd like to know
if the "violin player" should also recieve the same personalized tutor service (free of charge of course) to travel with her/him while she decides to go to the lake for the weekend.

In case you haven't noticed, I never argued for a salary, just a larger stipend. I am not going to be on scholarship, so none of this would apply to me anyway; even though I think the stipend should apply to non-scholarship people also.

An extra stipend of a couple hundred a month is really too much to ask? Of course I would say just the athletes should get it, but that is a little hypocritical, isn't it? So any person who represents the University should get paid. 10-15k a year is sure a lot of money man...(SARCASM!!!) That is about what it comes out to.

Yes, that violin player should get free tutoring when he/she has to travel for a concert.

You have got to be ******** me about the big man on campus. That has nothing to do with the University, it has everything to do with women wanting the guys other women want. So of course the people who are more known on campus will get more *****.

With the injuries, I am not even talking about insurance. If you are playing sports you are covered by the school's insurance. But those injuries have a lasting affect on your life. One of my roommates has had two knee surgeries in a year, needless to say, he is done playing football. His knee is always going to bother him. The linemen who have to be big, that ***** with their knees too.

Hell, I don't give a damn if I even ever get a scholarship, I just want to play football. But it is unfair that athletes compensation isn't even equal to a somewhat decent internship.

Sounds like sour grapes to me man.

HoopsDemon12
06-10-2007, 12:10 PM
i say no they shouldnt... a part of what makes college so great to watch is that they are playing for the love of the game and school. i mean they fight for extra yards give that extra effort, sure once the get into a junior and seanior year they may be trying harder to get money.. but the are still playing their best... we dont need anyone coasting because tehy already have money.... cough cough RANDY MOSS cough cough... i mean come on they are getting full rides, what more do you need

geaux tigers
06-10-2007, 11:05 PM
USC's tuition is $30K+/yr. thats over $120K in paid tuition alone. Other public state school 4 yr tuition is easily $30-50K.

someone447
06-10-2007, 11:20 PM
USC's tuition is $30K+/yr. thats over $120K in paid tuition alone. Other public state school 4 yr tuition is easily $30-50K.

That is for out of state, most athletes are from the state they go to.

VY10
06-11-2007, 11:00 AM
My roommate is in Athletic Training. He puts in the same, if not more hours then the football players do. He gets there before they are there and leaves after they do a majority of the time as well as taking 15-18 hours of courses. ALL of the trainers have to do this so while they are paying to go to school and having to do all of this UNPAID why are they not giving money?

He is given experience. It isn't like thee arren't on-campus jobs he could do.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-11-2007, 03:24 PM
Going to college is a priveledge, not a right.

No, they shouldn't be paid.

Good post! I agree!

reese
06-11-2007, 05:05 PM
anyone thats been around big time college football...or has played it..knows those guys arnt left in need of anything...they shouldnt be gettin a paycheck...they are well taken care of

Iamcanadian
06-12-2007, 08:37 AM
They definitely should be paid, most are recruited to play sports and the school hardly cares if they ever graduate. They do not get a FREE Education, they have to put in long hours of practice, weight training etc. etc. to stay eligible and play games even at exam time which often involves hours of travel. They risk serious injuries which can have life time consequences.
The schools barely let 60% graduate mostly to satisfy the parents in enticing prospects to come to their school. It used to be more in like 35-40% graduation rates before newspapers started printing the results and embarrassed schools into working harder to pass their student athletes.
The schools make millions off their efforts and continue to increase the # of games they play to maximize their profits while increasing significantly the chances for a very serious injury. They are IN FACT, employees of the University who get peanuts for the amount of money they generate for their schools and have absolutely no recourse. They are in fact saves who get a pittance for their efforts and are terminated if the school sees fit. It may appear on the surface to be a comfortable slavery but it is slavery nevertheless. There is NO other program in a university that asks its students to risk life and serious injury to attend school for a slim chance to graduate in a serious program.
The whole system is totally disgusting and some day it will seriously be tested in the courts for its abuse but until then, those who support it sound a lot like pre Civil War southern sympathizers who argued their slaves were after all, looked after, fed and housed at no cost to them and should be happy with their situation. YES, they definitely need to be paid!!!

someone447
06-12-2007, 10:30 AM
anyone thats been around big time college football...or has played it..knows those guys arnt left in need of anything...they shouldnt be gettin a paycheck...they are well taken care of

Yes, through boosters, which is against the rules. Paying the athletes even the playing field. Honestly, do you think UTEP boosters can/will pay athletes as much as UT boosters? You give the athletes more money(the same amount at each school) and you even the recruiting field somewhat, leading to more parity.

someone447
06-12-2007, 10:32 AM
They definitely should be paid, most are recruited to play sports and the school hardly cares if they ever graduate. They do not get a FREE Education, they have to put in long hours of practice, weight training etc. etc. to stay eligible and play games even at exam time which often involves hours of travel. They risk serious injuries which can have life time consequences.
The schools barely let 60% graduate mostly to satisfy the parents in enticing prospects to come to their school. It used to be more in like 35-40% graduation rates before newspapers started printing the results and embarrassed schools into working harder to pass their student athletes.
The schools make millions off their efforts and continue to increase the # of games they play to maximize their profits while increasing significantly the chances for a very serious injury. They are IN FACT, employees of the University who get peanuts for the amount of money they generate for their schools and have absolutely no recourse. They are in fact saves who get a pittance for their efforts and are terminated if the school sees fit. It may appear on the surface to be a comfortable slavery but it is slavery nevertheless. There is NO other program in a university that asks its students to risk life and serious injury to attend school for a slim chance to graduate in a serious program.
The whole system is totally disgusting and some day it will seriously be tested in the courts for its abuse but until then, those who support it sound a lot like pre Civil War southern sympathizers who argued their slaves were after all, looked after, fed and housed at no cost to them and should be happy with their situation. YES, they definitely need to be paid!!!

Slavery? I wouldn't go that far, it is optional after all. But athletes do deserve to get paid, just for the fact that a single serious knee injury will probably affect the athlete for the rest of their life, likely ending in knee replacement surgery years down the road, something the school won't pay for when you are 60.

VY10
06-13-2007, 12:41 AM
They definitely should be paid, most are recruited to play sports and the school hardly cares if they ever graduate. They do not get a FREE Education, they have to put in long hours of practice, weight training etc. etc. to stay eligible and play games even at exam time which often involves hours of travel. They risk serious injuries which can have life time consequences.
The schools barely let 60% graduate mostly to satisfy the parents in enticing prospects to come to their school. It used to be more in like 35-40% graduation rates before newspapers started printing the results and embarrassed schools into working harder to pass their student athletes.
The schools make millions off their efforts and continue to increase the # of games they play to maximize their profits while increasing significantly the chances for a very serious injury. They are IN FACT, employees of the University who get peanuts for the amount of money they generate for their schools and have absolutely no recourse. They are in fact saves who get a pittance for their efforts and are terminated if the school sees fit. It may appear on the surface to be a comfortable slavery but it is slavery nevertheless. There is NO other program in a university that asks its students to risk life and serious injury to attend school for a slim chance to graduate in a serious program.
The whole system is totally disgusting and some day it will seriously be tested in the courts for its abuse but until then, those who support it sound a lot like pre Civil War southern sympathizers who argued their slaves were after all, looked after, fed and housed at no cost to them and should be happy with their situation. YES, they definitely need to be paid!!!

Hahahahaha, slavery. They don't have to play football. They can hit the books and study and get a desk job if they want! This shouldn't even be brought up, it is ludicrous to even consider athletics anything like slavery - mainly, that sports are fun!

Football provides lots of athletes to the ability to obtain an education that they could not afford. Not everyone is there just for football - there are thousands and thousands of athletes that go pro at something other than sports....

And for the big time athletes that work at it, they can graduate. I know Demeco Ryans graduated in 7 semesters and he was the ROY.

Again, no one is making these kids play football. It is a choice that they make. They are looked up to and praised, hardly the same treatment given to slaves.

VY10
06-13-2007, 12:44 AM
But athletes do deserve to get paid, just for the fact that a single serious knee injury will probably affect the athlete for the rest of their life, likely ending in knee replacement surgery years down the road, something the school won't pay for when you are 60.

What about high school athletes? Can't they get injured too? Should they be paid so in case they suffer knee injuries?

-black
06-13-2007, 12:54 AM
i havent read anything

but did someone seriously compare collefe athletics to slavery?

someone447
06-13-2007, 12:57 AM
What about high school athletes? Can't they get injured too? Should they be paid so in case they suffer knee injuries?

High school and college football is completely different, and you know that. For one thing, serious injuries in high school football are much less common. For another, they make little to no money for their school. And finally, they can easily have a job, college football players do not have time for a job, and when they can get one, it has to be approved by the NCAA.

Mr. Stiller
06-13-2007, 01:25 AM
High school and college football is completely different, and you know that. For one thing, serious injuries in high school football are much less common. For another, they make little to no money for their school.

It's still a possibility. However, Football at most schools bring in a lot of their sports budget.

Frankly,

They do get paid, As do smart kids, and minorities.

They get free scholarships. They have to produce and they get free-education.

I can't play sports anymore (Well, My doctor told me they can fix my condition and I could get back to playing shape), and I have to work for an Academic Scholarship... because If I don't, I'll basically have to pay back the cost of an education, that can potentially cost upwards the value of 10-20 Lexus'.


So to say there's nothing to save a student-athlete if they get injured.... most Scholarships, have clauses to protect students if they get injured, by still providing a free education...


My cousin got one, he was a 6'4 324lb DT.. He went to Robert Morris and I think Plays OL.

He got injured his Senior year in school.. and when he signed his scholarship RMU showed the Clause in his scholarship that as long as he has a certain GPA (2.5 or 2.75 I believe), he would then be transferred over to an academic scholarship.


So they get paid, they have the luxury of a great education that most normal people have to pay back for 20-30 years..

someone447
06-13-2007, 03:06 AM
It's still a possibility. However, Football at most schools bring in a lot of their sports budget.

Frankly,

They do get paid, As do smart kids, and minorities.

They get free scholarships. They have to produce and they get free-education.

I can't play sports anymore (Well, My doctor told me they can fix my condition and I could get back to playing shape), and I have to work for an Academic Scholarship... because If I don't, I'll basically have to pay back the cost of an education, that can potentially cost upwards the value of 10-20 Lexus'.


So to say there's nothing to save a student-athlete if they get injured.... most Scholarships, have clauses to protect students if they get injured, by still providing a free education...


My cousin got one, he was a 6'4 324lb DT.. He went to Robert Morris and I think Plays OL.

He got injured his Senior year in school.. and when he signed his scholarship RMU showed the Clause in his scholarship that as long as he has a certain GPA (2.5 or 2.75 I believe), he would then be transferred over to an academic scholarship.


So they get paid, they have the luxury of a great education that most normal people have to pay back for 20-30 years..

I'm not even talking about not being able to play if they get injured. I am talking about the doctor bills from knee or hip replacement surgeries when they are older that they have to get due to the wear and tear of college football.

MaxV
06-13-2007, 07:40 AM
Going to all these D1 Universities provides one with GREAT opportunities.

That, in itself, is a worthy reward.

Iamcanadian
06-13-2007, 08:38 AM
There is a huge difference between choosing to play high school football and playing college football. In high school you aren't required to pay to attend and you aren't on scholarship in order to afford to go. In university I'd guess that most of the student athletes especially in football and basketball couldn't afford to attend if they didn't play their sport. The NFL also requires that they play college football until their junior year. So the vast majority of college players are forced to accept scholarships and follow the rules.
It is very much like slavery. It may appear to be a comfortable slavery but when a person is denied wages for making a university millions of dollars, it begins to look like a type of slavery when the HC can force a kid to practice, train and play in order to stay in school with only a 60% chance they will ever graduate and that # probably diminishes if you only look only at football and basketball student athletes. Football in particular carries an astounding 10% chance of a serious injury which can effect a person their whole life never mind the back and hip injuries which may not show up for another 20 years as the bones degenerate slowly over time.
What is really disgusting is how the universities have taken advantage of their football and basketball student athletes by increasing the # of games they MUST play to maximize their profits even though they know very well that more games equals a lot more serious injuries. The more tired a player becomes as a season progresses, the more susceptible he becomes to injuries. Longer seasons also mean that student athletes have a far harder time to graduate as they are required to give up even more of their study time for their sport.
The NCAA limits severely how much a student athlete can make in the off season. How many students on scholarship who aren't athletes are told how much they can make in the summer. The restrictions on these kids is unbelievable and demands complete servitude while attending university and that my friend smells a lot like a type of slavery to me.

tdpennstate
06-13-2007, 12:01 PM
Paying college players would be terrible for college football. One reason I enjoy college more than the nfl, is because you dont see players only caring about themselves and how much they are getting paid. College players work their butts off and play hard every game so one day they can get paid to play football in the nfl. Most college players have full scholarships and most big name colleges for one semester you have to pay between 30 and 50 thousand just to attend that school. so if a player goes to college for 4 years thats 200,000. also they get put in nice dorms and have much more benefits than your average student has. So when you think about it, they are getting paid, with a free college education, place to live and eat. instead of a pay check.

Tubby
06-13-2007, 12:24 PM
Due to some equal rights law that Nixon passed while in office, if you want to pay John David Booty a certain amount of money, you have to pay every athlete in the entire school the exact same amount of money.

VY10
06-13-2007, 01:06 PM
High school and college football is completely different, and you know that. For one thing, serious injuries in high school football are much less common. For another, they make little to no money for their school. And finally, they can easily have a job, college football players do not have time for a job, and when they can get one, it has to be approved by the NCAA.

I for a fact know a guy that broke his ankle - foot really badly playing high school football. He has no more cartilage and will walk in pain the rest of his life. I know a guy who tore his meniscus 3 times. I saw 2 ACL tears happen in the same season. Not to mention all the broken arms, hands, fingers, and collar bones. Concussions are also quite common. Don't act like just because it is high-school and not college that bad injuries can't happen.

Of course high school football makes little or no money for their school. They don't have thousands and thousands of alumni that are willing to come and watch them every friday night. They do however generate more revenue than let's say....the girls track team.

College football players can have a job during the entire offseason - same with highschool. Anyways if they are on scholarship - why do they need a job? It isn't like they have to pay their way through school.

VY10
06-13-2007, 01:07 PM
double post

VY10
06-13-2007, 01:42 PM
There is a huge difference between choosing to play high school football and playing college football. In high school you aren't required to pay to attend and you aren't on scholarship in order to afford to go. In university I'd guess that most of the student athletes especially in football and basketball couldn't afford to attend if they didn't play their sport. The NFL also requires that they play college football until their junior year. So the vast majority of college players are forced to accept scholarships and follow the rules.
It is very much like slavery. It may appear to be a comfortable slavery but when a person is denied wages for making a university millions of dollars, it begins to look like a type of slavery when the HC can force a kid to practice, train and play in order to stay in school with only a 60% chance they will ever graduate and that # probably diminishes if you only look only at football and basketball student athletes. Football in particular carries an astounding 10% chance of a serious injury which can effect a person their whole life never mind the back and hip injuries which may not show up for another 20 years as the bones degenerate slowly over time.
What is really disgusting is how the universities have taken advantage of their football and basketball student athletes by increasing the # of games they MUST play to maximize their profits even though they know very well that more games equals a lot more serious injuries. The more tired a player becomes as a season progresses, the more susceptible he becomes to injuries. Longer seasons also mean that student athletes have a far harder time to graduate as they are required to give up even more of their study time for their sport.
The NCAA limits severely how much a student athlete can make in the off season. How many students on scholarship who aren't athletes are told how much they can make in the summer. The restrictions on these kids is unbelievable and demands complete servitude while attending university and that my friend smells a lot like a type of slavery to me.

1. You may be on the wrong message boards if you are anti football because of the injury possibility.

2. If they spend all their time partying and smoking dope and playing with guns they will not graduate. If they hit the books and study - they will. Plain and simple. They are given first class study facilities and tutors. Not graduating is their own fault.

3. I love your argument for them having to play college football until their junior year of college. It seems you don't understand that a college freshman is in no way what so ever prepared to compete in the NFL where everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. The NFL is infact pretty much the "College All-Star team" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years of players. Also should a highschool graduate be employed for a job that they have not had the proper training in? Should doctors and other professions not have to intern and be trained properly in their profession?

4. There are plenty of scholarships and financial aid to go to college. These kids don't have to play football to go to college, they might have to play to go to something above a community college though. It is again their choice, no one is making them play football.

5. Not being able to choose your profession is slavery. Picking cotton until your fingers bleed for 14 hours in the sun against your will is slavery. Being sold away from your family is slavery. Being raped is slavery. Being beat to death is slavery. Football is not that. If you are playing college football chances are you love the sport and love playing - something that can not be said about slavery.

6. If you are OK with players potentially making 80grand for working at a car dealership for the summer well then it is hard to argue with you about the NCAA putting limits on how much they can make. Remember there are boosters who would love to give these kids high paying jobs to come to their schools.

7. How are the number of games increasing. They play a maximum of 13. With way more by weeks than the NFL as well as 3 fewer TOTAL games than just the NFL regular season. This isn't even including the playoffs. D-2 and D-3 have playoffs also. It is only big time college football that DOESN'T have playoffs.

8. Again, maybe you don't understand. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL. THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

9. It doesn't smell like slavery.

someone447
06-13-2007, 02:49 PM
I for a fact know a guy that broke his ankle - foot really badly playing high school football. He has no more cartilage and will walk in pain the rest of his life. I know a guy who tore his meniscus 3 times. I saw 2 ACL tears happen in the same season. Not to mention all the broken arms, hands, fingers, and collar bones. Concussions are also quite common. Don't act like just because it is high-school and not college that bad injuries can't happen.

Of course high school football makes little or no money for their school. They don't have thousands and thousands of alumni that are willing to come and watch them every friday night. They do however generate more revenue than let's say....the girls track team.

College football players can have a job during the entire offseason - same with highschool. Anyways if they are on scholarship - why do they need a job? It isn't like they have to pay their way through school.

I said much LESS likely, not impossible.

The whole argument for paying college athletes is BECAUSE they make so much money for their school.

But the job has to be NCAA approved. You obviously don't know division 1 football players. All I am arguing for is a larger stipend, something that gives them some extra spending money.

someone447
06-13-2007, 03:04 PM
1. You may be on the wrong message boards if you are anti football because of the injury possibility.

2. If they spend all their time partying and smoking dope and playing with guns they will not graduate. If they hit the books and study - they will. Plain and simple. They are given first class study facilities and tutors. Not graduating is their own fault.

3. I love your argument for them having to play college football until their junior year of college. It seems you don't understand that a college freshman is in no way what so ever prepared to compete in the NFL where everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. The NFL is infact pretty much the "College All-Star team" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years of players. Also should a highschool graduate be employed for a job that they have not had the proper training in? Should doctors and other professions not have to intern and be trained properly in their profession?

4. There are plenty of scholarships and financial aid to go to college. These kids don't have to play football to go to college, they might have to play to go to something above a community college though. It is again their choice, no one is making them play football.

5. Not being able to choose your profession is slavery. Picking cotton until your fingers bleed for 14 hours in the sun against your will is slavery. Being sold away from your family is slavery. Being raped is slavery. Being beat to death is slavery. Football is not that. If you are playing college football chances are you love the sport and love playing - something that can not be said about slavery.

6. If you are OK with players potentially making 80grand for working at a car dealership for the summer well then it is hard to argue with you about the NCAA putting limits on how much they can make. Remember there are boosters who would love to give these kids high paying jobs to come to their schools.

7. How are the number of games increasing. They play a maximum of 13. With way more by weeks than the NFL as well as 3 fewer TOTAL games than just the NFL regular season. This isn't even including the playoffs. D-2 and D-3 have playoffs also. It is only big time college football that DOESN'T have playoffs.

8. Again, maybe you don't understand. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL. THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

9. It doesn't smell like slavery.

1) No one is anti-football

2) Some people aren't cut out for college, regardless of partying. One guy that I played high school with WILL NOT graduate from college, he just isn't smart enough. He had enough trouble graduating in high school.

3) I agree with you on this point.

4) In order to get a well paying job, it is almost a necessity to go to college. Not everyone is capable of getting an academic scholarship, just like not everyone is capable of getting an athletic scholarship.

5) Slavery is a horrible word to use, but there are different types of slavery.

6) Giving athletes more money would cut down on the under the table payments by boosters, or at least the need for them.

7) It used to be they played 10 games plus a bowl game.

8) Way to restate one of your earlier assertions in the form of another bullet.

9) See number 8.

At least you don't seem to be arguing based on jealousy like the last guy.

VY10
06-13-2007, 03:58 PM
1)Yes there are people who are anti football. I know some and don't associate myself with them.

2) If they aren't cut out for college then them not graduating should be expected. It isn't football or anything else that is keeping them from graduating.

4) Yes not everyone is capable of getting scholarships however there is financial aid and there are community college which is a cheap way to go to go to school and acquire hours. (The point is chances are they can go to college and not play football if they want.)

6)That is one way to look at it but the reason boosters give out money is not because the kids "need" it. They give the money to entice the kids to come to the university and to congratulate them on the job they are doing.

7) Now it is 11 + bowl game or 12 + bowl game. Yes I know it is an increase but it is still not near the NFL's 16+Playoffs and there are still more by weeks. The point is if guys who are older take more hits, length of schedule isn't a problem.

8) I apologize - just trying to make my main point that college football is in fact not like slavery.

-Thank you. I am arguing the point of the thread and mainly that football is not slavery. Yes they do not get "paid" for the money that the team brings in for the university but they are given the ability, whether they take advantage of it or not, to become an NFL player or pursue a different profession. In my mind that is plenty of compensation considering the tuition of many colleges today.

someone447
06-13-2007, 08:39 PM
1)Yes there are people who are anti football. I know some and don't associate myself with them.

2) If they aren't cut out for college then them not graduating should be expected. It isn't football or anything else that is keeping them from graduating.

4) Yes not everyone is capable of getting scholarships however there is financial aid and there are community college which is a cheap way to go to go to school and acquire hours. (The point is chances are they can go to college and not play football if they want.)

6)That is one way to look at it but the reason boosters give out money is not because the kids "need" it. They give the money to entice the kids to come to the university and to congratulate them on the job they are doing.

7) Now it is 11 + bowl game or 12 + bowl game. Yes I know it is an increase but it is still not near the NFL's 16+Playoffs and there are still more by weeks. The point is if guys who are older take more hits, length of schedule isn't a problem.

8) I apologize - just trying to make my main point that college football is in fact not like slavery.

-Thank you. I am arguing the point of the thread and mainly that football is not slavery. Yes they do not get "paid" for the money that the team brings in for the university but they are given the ability, whether they take advantage of it or not, to become an NFL player or pursue a different profession. In my mind that is plenty of compensation considering the tuition of many colleges today.

Way to take my quote completely out of context. This is a football website, obviously none of us are antifootball.

The NFL players get paid very, very good, college players, not so much.

I guess need is the wrong word for it, but paying the athletes a set amount will cut down on the boosters needing to entice them to come to the school through money.

No, but the football sure does take up a lot of time, so the people that are borderline will have a very, very hard time graduating.

Community college, or USC? Which one looks better? I am not even asking for them to be paid a lot, just a few hundred a month larger stipend.

VY10
06-13-2007, 09:34 PM
And how much is USC tuition....

Jonathan_VIlma
06-15-2007, 12:23 AM
Trust me, what they get paid is not enough for what they do. I roomed with 4 UTEP players this past year, 2 have had knee surgery(one of them twice), and one is well on his way to needing it. Tell me what the violinist has to worry about that will affect his/her life after football? I understand not wanting to give them a salary, but a larger stipend would sure help them out.

Like I said they are gone 9am-6pm with very little breaks in between. Having class, then they go eat, then lift, then meetings, then practice, then the linemen had some more meetings. They get a small stipend now, but they need to give them a larger one.

Or how about give all athletes at each division the same amount, regardless of the sport or production. I haven't been an athlete yet(NEXT YEAR!!) and I haven't taken more than 12 hours a semester. That is considered a full time student, so the athletes shouldn't have to take any more than that, which, SUPRISE!!! is the rule. Leinhart was an exception, because he had already graduated, so he didn't have other classes to take.

Everyone is up in arms about Oden's schedule, but every one of his classes are required classes. It looked an awful lot like my schedule my freshman year.
By these statements then, High School football players should be paid as well due to the fact that they could suffer career ending injuries.

Iamcanadian
06-15-2007, 10:22 AM
Most of you are caught up in the hype about college football and maybe still attend college yourselves. Not only do only 60% of student athletes graduate, the pressure of their commitment to their sport which requires so many hours a day for practice, training, injury recovery etc. etc. makes it almost impossible for a student athlete in either college football or basketball to take anything approaching a serious course from which top paying jobs are obtained. You are not going to find too many student athletes taking pre-med, MBA's or law, there are only a very few capable of getting these degrees and playing college sports. Most of your student athletes in football and basketball come from dirt poor families and there is NO option but to accept a university scholarship to get from under their poverty. There is no other option for them.
Let's take a look at college football and it's 13 or 14 games schedule. Using a 13 game schedule, a college football player is asked to play an 81% schedule of an NFL player, a college basketball player is asked to play around a 41.6% of an NBA schedule. It is very similar in other college sports where they play under 50% of what a pro plays, however in football, they are playing very close to a pro schedule, WHY!!! The colleges know injuries occur at a greater rate the more games you play and yet the colleges keep increasing the # of games a team plays per year. The colleges also know that graduation rates suffer when you add games to the schedule as the student athletes have far less time to study. Yet they go on adding games ignoring the injuries and the graduation affects on their student athletes, so why do they do it, MONEY!!! They have realized that these student athletes are trapped in a system where they have no say, so they have set out to maximize their profits no matter what the effect on the student athlete.
When you trap people in a system based on a free education and the very small likelihood of a pro career but only graduate 60%, mostly in very minor majors, ignore the many injuries that occur and put your athletes under extreme duress in order to have any chance of passing even though you know these are the weakest students on campus, then the word 'Slavery' doesn't seem out of place. Off of these athletes backs, the Universities are generating hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue enough today, to pay their football HC's similar money to a pro HC while the players are kept in servitude playing for a pittance of what their work generates in revenue.
It's time to end this disgusting system and pay the student athlete a fair compensation for what they do. There should be a restriction on the # of games you can ask a student athlete to play in order to minimize injuries and a student athlete should be recognized as an employee of the schools they attend so they are eligible for health benefits should they get injured. They currently have no access to health benifits from long term injuries under state law.