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neko4
06-09-2007, 02:49 PM
Which of the following draft busts had been screwed the most...

Patrick Ramsey-I believe he had 2 different coaches in Washington (Thats never healthy for a young QB) and wasnt used correctly by Spurrier IMO. Probably shouldnt have been drafted by WAS in the first place. Never had a good rushing attack, or great WR's (Coles, and thats about it). Oh! and not to mention he was clotheslined by Briggs.

David Carr-I think we all know the story. Didnt have a good O-line to start w/ and was killed by DE's early in his career. This definitly didnt help his confidence. Dom Capers isnt necesarily an excellent QB coach either.

Joey Harrington-The guy was drafted by Detroit, thats getting screwed from day 1. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers were both busts and Kevin Jones and Roy Williams had injury problems. Not the greatest OL either.

Long Off-season :)

DeathbyStat
06-09-2007, 02:52 PM
Carr was never really given an oline or a team to work with but I wasn't sold on him coming out of college and I'm not really sold on him now. I really think his decision making is rather poor

23trufant
06-09-2007, 03:04 PM
Its close but I went with Carr

TheMadLionsFan
06-09-2007, 03:15 PM
I don't know.....but Marriucci never tried to make it work with Harrington NEVER

neko4
06-09-2007, 03:21 PM
I don't know.....but Marriucci never tried to make it work with Harrington NEVER

really? Thats kinda a suprise to me. I figured he was a good coach. I mean he coached Favre and Garcia

bearfan
06-09-2007, 03:47 PM
This is tough but I went Carr. No oline. period.

Komp
06-09-2007, 03:58 PM
David Carr is a great candidate, but I would go with Robert Gallery. HORRIBLE coaching and 3 different blocking schemes = 1 giant draft bust. Hopefully our new protection schemes will take advantage of his atheletic ability.

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-09-2007, 03:59 PM
Carr is the only one out of the three that could be a starter for the future.

neko4
06-09-2007, 04:06 PM
David Carr is a great candidate, but I would go with Robert Gallery. HORRIBLE coaching and 3 different blocking schemes = 1 giant draft bust. Hopefully our new protection schemes will take advantage of his atheletic ability.

Good suggestion, i was only thinking QB's. I was gonna put Ki-Jana, but in a way he screwed himself

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-09-2007, 04:08 PM
You should add Byron Leftwich to this.

neko4
06-09-2007, 04:09 PM
You should add Byron Leftwich to this.

I guess that would make sense too

Komp
06-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Sort of, I don't think Leftwich has been screwed as much those guys tho. At least he has usually had a good team, well a good defense lol....

TacticaLion
06-09-2007, 04:38 PM
I think it HAS to be Harrington.

Both teams were horrible.
Both OLines were bad (Houstons was worse).
Both supporting casts were weak (Detroits was worse).

But, Harrington has moved from Detroit to Miami and now to the Falcons... while Carr has moved from Houston to Carolina. Carr has a chance to take a season off, learn the offense and ease himself back into the starting job (and Carolina is a solid team). Harrington may be thrown into an offense that has seen its only success behind Vick, who has mobility... one of the many things Harrington lacks.

I give it to Harrington.

bearsfan_51
06-09-2007, 04:51 PM
Joey Harrington has the leadership skills of a turnip, I don't think he could have led the 2000 Ravens to the Superbowl.

I'll go David Carr by default, but I don't think any of them are anything to write home about.

Addict
06-09-2007, 04:51 PM
I said Carr, talented guy who got killed because he had no O-Line hence no time to get rid of a ball.

Hey tactica, you back?

SeanTaylorRIP
06-09-2007, 04:54 PM
Ramsey lol, he is trash, put him on the Colts, he still sucks.

Woody56
06-09-2007, 05:15 PM
if he was on the list I would have voted Tim Couch, but of those three it is Carr.

TacticaLion
06-09-2007, 05:31 PM
I said Carr, talented guy who got killed because he had no O-Line hence no time to get rid of a ball.

Hey tactica, you back?

I guess I saw Harrington the same way in Detroit... although Carr was sacked a LOT more. Harrington just constantly threw the ball away.

I think Carr has a future, though.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
06-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Harrington had many first round weapons, Ramsey did as well, Carr unfortunately had only Andre Johnson. Carr got anal-raped when he went to the Texans. If some team that actually had a line drafted him, he would probably have atleast 1 pro-bowl.

niel89
06-09-2007, 05:56 PM
Joey Harrington has the leadership skills of a turnip, I don't think he could have led the 2000 Ravens to the Superbowl.

I'll go David Carr by default, but I don't think any of them are anything to write home about.

:D :D :D :D :D

TacticaLion
06-09-2007, 05:58 PM
Harrington had many first round weapons, Ramsey did as well, Carr unfortunately had only Andre Johnson. Carr got anal-raped when he went to the Texans. If some team that actually had a line drafted him, he would probably have atleast 1 pro-bowl.
Woah, woah, woah... sure, Harrington had Roy Williams, but Carr had Andre Johnson. Charles Rogers didn't do much (started 9 games in 3 years and had 4 TDs) and Mike Williams did less (started 6 games in 2 years and had 2 TDs). KJ had a great rookie season but has had a few injuries and played behind the same horrible OLine Harrington did.

To say that Harrington had "many first round weapons" is just not true.

TheChampIsHere
06-09-2007, 06:12 PM
I voted Carr, but I gotta say I dont think harrington should be on here. In his time in Detroit, he had plenty of talent around him and sure a lot of those guys turned out to be busts but the fact that Harrington was leading the offense had a lot to do with them becoming busts. A lot of the guys Brady works with seem like nobodies but they have a great QB leading their offense and they play better because of it. Carr was drafted onto an expansion team with no talent and poor coaching and no team chemistry and he never had a chance.

JF4
06-09-2007, 06:21 PM
Carr because he's the only one of the three who still has a chance at being a productive NFL QB.

ninerfan
06-09-2007, 06:26 PM
Carr because he's the only one of the three who still has a chance at being a productive NFL QB.

Yep he still has legit chance of being something like he was supposed to be coming out

draftguru151
06-09-2007, 06:30 PM
Woah, woah, woah... sure, Harrington had Roy Williams, but Carr had Andre Johnson. Charles Rogers didn't do much (started 9 games in 3 years and had 4 TDs) and Mike Williams did less (started 6 games in 2 years and had 2 TDs). KJ had a great rookie season but has had a few injuries and played behind the same horrible OLine Harrington did.

To say that Harrington had "many first round weapons" is just not true.

It's true, just misleading. He did have "first round weapons", they just sucked.

I really don't think any of the 3 were put in position to do well, but I think Ramsey was the most screwed. Spurrier really messed him up.

TheChampIsHere
06-09-2007, 06:33 PM
It's true, just misleading. He did have "first round weapons", they just sucked.

I really don't think any of the 3 were put in position to do well, but I think Ramsey was the most screwed. Spurrier really messed him up.

but you would have to say that part of them not being put in a position to do well was that they were put in an offense where Joey Harrington was the QB

TacticaLion
06-09-2007, 06:35 PM
I voted Carr, but I gotta say I dont think harrington should be on here. In his time in Detroit, he had plenty of talent around him and sure a lot of those guys turned out to be busts but the fact that Harrington was leading the offense had a lot to do with them becoming busts. A lot of the guys Brady works with seem like nobodies but they have a great QB leading their offense and they play better because of it. Carr was drafted onto an expansion team with no talent and poor coaching and no team chemistry and he never had a chance.That's amazing.

How did Harrington have any more talent around him than Carr did?! I think people look at the draft picks and think "Hey, he should've succeeded", but half of those picks didn't pan out (and one of the ones that did has been bothered by injuries). The one that did (Roy) isn't as good as Carr's WR option (Johnson).

And, no, Harrington leading the offense had nothing to do with them becoming busts. Harrington didn't make Mike Williams lazy and Harrington didn't injure Charles Rogers (and didn't force him to smoke weed).

Those are very weak statements.

TheChampIsHere
06-09-2007, 10:53 PM
That's amazing.

How did Harrington have any more talent around him than Carr did?! I think people look at the draft picks and think "Hey, he should've succeeded", but half of those picks didn't pan out (and one of the ones that did has been bothered by injuries). The one that did (Roy) isn't as good as Carr's WR option (Johnson).

And, no, Harrington leading the offense had nothing to do with them becoming busts. Harrington didn't make Mike Williams lazy and Harrington didn't injure Charles Rogers (and didn't force him to smoke weed).

Those are very weak statements.

Carr had one of the worst OL ever assembled, yes he had Andre but thats 1 player. Harrington had high-priced and highly drafted OL blocking for him, talent at HB, WR, TE. The fact that the offense never panned out has a lot to do with Harrington.

Acreboy
06-09-2007, 11:25 PM
Carr is the only one out of the three that could be a starter for the future.I totally agree

255979119
06-10-2007, 12:46 AM
I would have like to see the results if Harrington and Carr had swapped draft spots. Or do we just give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that got drafted by an expansion team?

49erfaithful
06-10-2007, 01:02 AM
I would have like to see the results if Harrington and Carr had swapped draft spots. Or do we just give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that got drafted by an expansion team?

well Carr may have actually done well in Detroit, he would have actually have a O-Line that was trying to block

TacticaLion
06-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Carr had one of the worst OL ever assembled, yes he had Andre but thats 1 player. Harrington had high-priced and highly drafted OL blocking for him, talent at HB, WR, TE. The fact that the offense never panned out has a lot to do with Harrington.I'm shocked.

Detroit's OLine was horrible... "high-priced and highly paid" doesn't equal success. They had 1 talented player at WR, and that was Roy Williams (I don't consider Tai Streets and Az-Zahir Hakim "talented"). Talent at TE? Who?! Stephen Alexander!? You've gotta be kidding me. Kevin Jones had a solid rookie year, but had minor injuries in his next year and struggled.

The fact that the offense never panned out has a lot to do with the horrible OLine... more so than Harrington.

TacticaLion
06-10-2007, 12:35 PM
well Carr may have actually done well in Detroit, he would have actually have a O-Line that was trying to blockWhy is there this misconception that Detroit had a decent OLine?! They didn't. It was horrible.

HoopsDemon12
06-10-2007, 12:52 PM
Carr had no protection... one reciever.. a injury prone runningback and no defense... although it could have been a lot worse... he could have been drafted by the lions

TheChampIsHere
06-10-2007, 02:39 PM
I'm shocked.

Detroit's OLine was horrible... "high-priced and highly paid" doesn't equal success. They had 1 talented player at WR, and that was Roy Williams (I don't consider Tai Streets and Az-Zahir Hakim "talented"). Talent at TE? Who?! Stephen Alexander!? You've gotta be kidding me. Kevin Jones had a solid rookie year, but had minor injuries in his next year and struggled.

The fact that the offense never panned out has a lot to do with the horrible OLine... more so than Harrington.

A good QB makes his OL better. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do not really have great OLs but they are smart QBs who keep defenses off balance, have great footwork and pocket composure and know when to get rid of the ball. This makes their OL look a lot better than they really are. You reverse that and put in a QB with poor composure who holds the ball too long and is a poor QB and in general and he is gonna make that line look a lot worse. So yes, you can have a talented OL but if you have a poor QB in there, you're not gonna put those lineman in a good position to succeed and make the most of their talent. Damien Woody was a pro bowler on the Pats and he comes to Detroit and stinks it up. I dont understand why youre trying to blame everyone but Harrington. He was a ****** QB and he made everyone around him worse, thats what bad QBs do, similar to how good QBs like Brady and Manning make everyone around them better.

Harrington didnt jump into an ideal situation, but if he was indeed a good QB he had enough talent around him to succeed. Roy Williams is pro-bowl caliber, Rogers was talented (altho he was hurt most the time), Marcus Pollard was a proven producer before he came to the Lions, an OL full of first rounders and players like Woody and Demulling who played excellent for their former teams, a first round back in Kevin Jones...If Harrington was a good QB he would have utilized the weapons around him better and these players would have played to their full potential, because thats what happens to good QBs, players around them play well. Its no coincidence that every player on that Lion offense turned into a bust. Its not all to blame on Harrington b/c the coaches and the individual players carry plenty of the burden, but so does Harrington.....

But back to the subject of the post, we're talking about players that didnt have a chance. Carr, like I said, was put on an expansion team that was just awful overall, had one of the worst OL ever assembled, didnt have much offensive weapons to speka of outside of Andre Johnson, last year when the team had a chance to add a playmaker to the offense in Reggie Bush, they didnt do it. The team refused to spend high picks or sign a big money FA at OL, and specifically at LT. Carr wasn't given a fair chance. You look at the Lions, they made every effort to surround Harrington with talent, give him good blockers, give him playmakers to work with. I'll tell you what, I really doubt Mike Furrey gets 100 receptions last year if Harrington is still the QB on that offense. Patrick Ramsey, the other guy in the poll, actually did have some decent talent around him, but Spurrier just used him so stupidly that he never had a chance. Few QBs have ever been subject to such horrible coaching.

neko4
06-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Patrick Ramsey, the other guy in the poll, actually did have some decent talent around him, but Spurrier just used him so stupidly that he never had a chance. Few QBs have ever been subject to such horrible coaching.
People overlook the poor guy
Spurrier really ruined his career trying to turn him into a more mobile guy.
If he wanted a mobile QB then why didnt he draft Josh McCown or David Garrard

TheMadLionsFan
06-11-2007, 11:22 AM
I voted Carr, but I gotta say I dont think harrington should be on here. In his time in Detroit, he had plenty of talent around him and sure a lot of those guys turned out to be busts but the fact that Harrington was leading the offense had a lot to do with them becoming busts. A lot of the guys Brady works with seem like nobodies but they have a great QB leading their offense and they play better because of it. Carr was drafted onto an expansion team with no talent and poor coaching and no team chemistry and he never had a chance.


actuallt...you say he had talent around them and then called them busts?...doesn't make sense....and in fact your wrong....the "talent" you speak of is Charles Rogers & Mike Williams....Charles Rogers had two consecutive collarbone injuries,,,,a drug suspension and the work ethic of a hibernating bear...Mike Williams could never get in shape and thought he was entitled to a roster spot...and his offiensive line was trash...what "talent" do you speak of?

TheMadLionsFan
06-11-2007, 11:39 AM
A good QB makes his OL better. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do not really have great OLs but they are smart QBs who keep defenses off balance, have great footwork and pocket composure and know when to get rid of the ball. This makes their OL look a lot better than they really are. You reverse that and put in a QB with poor composure who holds the ball too long and is a poor QB and in general and he is gonna make that line look a lot worse. So yes, you can have a talented OL but if you have a poor QB in there, you're not gonna put those lineman in a good position to succeed and make the most of their talent. Damien Woody was a pro bowler on the Pats and he comes to Detroit and stinks it up. I dont understand why youre trying to blame everyone but Harrington. He was a ****** QB and he made everyone around him worse, thats what bad QBs do, similar to how good QBs like Brady and Manning make everyone around them better.

Harrington didnt jump into an ideal situation, but if he was indeed a good QB he had enough talent around him to succeed. Roy Williams is pro-bowl caliber, Rogers was talented (altho he was hurt most the time), Marcus Pollard was a proven producer before he came to the Lions, an OL full of first rounders and players like Woody and Demulling who played excellent for their former teams, a first round back in Kevin Jones...If Harrington was a good QB he would have utilized the weapons around him better and these players would have played to their full potential, because thats what happens to good QBs, players around them play well. Its no coincidence that every player on that Lion offense turned into a bust. Its not all to blame on Harrington b/c the coaches and the individual players carry plenty of the burden, but so does Harrington.....

But back to the subject of the post, we're talking about players that didnt have a chance. Carr, like I said, was put on an expansion team that was just awful overall, had one of the worst OL ever assembled, didnt have much offensive weapons to speka of outside of Andre Johnson, last year when the team had a chance to add a playmaker to the offense in Reggie Bush, they didnt do it. The team refused to spend high picks or sign a big money FA at OL, and specifically at LT. Carr wasn't given a fair chance. You look at the Lions, they made every effort to surround Harrington with talent, give him good blockers, give him playmakers to work with. I'll tell you what, I really doubt Mike Furrey gets 100 receptions last year if Harrington is still the QB on that offense. Patrick Ramsey, the other guy in the poll, actually did have some decent talent around him, but Spurrier just used him so stupidly that he never had a chance. Few QBs have ever been subject to such horrible coaching.

This posted is just jumbled up bullsh!t......first of all Damien Woody has been overweight since he has gotten to Detroit....and with the new staff he has been given an ultimatem....lose weight and restructure your contract or get the hell out of town......Joey Harrington wasn't on the team last year......and the QB was okay.....so what is your excuse for Woody's horrible play last year when he wasn't injured?...

your second paragraph...is beyond laughable....first you bring up Charles Rogers,,,,does it have to be written in crayon?.....HE SUFFERED TWO CONSECUTIVE SEASON ENDING INJURIES!!!....HE WASN'T ON THE FIELD!!!.....WHEN HE CAME BACK...HE WAS SUSPENDED FOR DRUGS!!!....AND THEN THE COACHING STAFF BURIED HIM ON THE BENCH!!!...The Woody situation I already adressed....Matt Millen came out and said Demulling was a mistake...no matter what you say or what your irrational logic may be....Demulling was terrible in run blocking as well as pass blocking....Harrington wasn't sacked as nearly as many times as he should have due to his quick release....Kevin Jones...had one good season....ONE....only one because he can't stay on the field due to injuries....How could Harrinton utilize him if he isn't on the field?...explain that too me.....and as far as givein every oppurtunity...well...lets see....Az Zahir Hakim?...no longer in the league....Tai Streets?...no longer in the league....Bill Schroeder?....no longer in the league...Charles Rogers?....no longer in the league....and as far as the offensive line....it was horrible....he had the worst offensive line behind Carr....it is obvious you are getting your information from those NFL Live clowns who talk out of theie ass.....

"TheChampIsHere, what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic, uninformed things that I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be a rational though concerning Joseph Harrington's stay with the Lions. Everyone here is now dumber for having reading it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

TheChampIsHere
06-11-2007, 01:07 PM
OK mr. Mad Lion settle down. Did you even read my post? Cuz you have really missed the point, even though I do love the Billy Madison reference lol. You can sit there and put all the personal blame on each and every player who "busted" around Harrington and the Lions or you can look at it like the Lions were a place where talented players came to rot during the Harrington years. And who is the most important and influential player on a team, the QB of course. When you are a receiver, if you dont have trust in your QB, it affects your level of play, it affects your work ethic. If you are a blocker and you dont trust your QB and feel like even if you do block well, hes gonna get it done, it affects your level of play, it affects your work ethic. So yes when I look at Damien Woody, Rick Demulling, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, Marcus Pollard, among others, who were major dissapointments, I do have to point to Harrington...Because like I said, Demulling and Woody played great when they were blocking for great QBs. But then when they come to the Lions, they lose their work ethic, they become less effective players. Am I saying Harrington should shoulder all the blame? Of course not, because each player has to take personal responsibility for not playing up to their potential and coaches and management deserve blame too. But to just go and clear Harrington, who was supposed to be the franchise QB of the team, of all blame is ridiculous, because as the franchise QB, you are the face of the franchise and the leader of the team and you are largely responsible for everyone around you. You look at any good franchise QB and its clear they make everyone around them better. Or on defense, you look at a franchise player like Ray Lewis, he makes everyone around him better, thats what franchise players do, they take the talent they are surrounded with, and they lead everyone to work hard, play hard, become a cohesive unit. The fact that so many guys on Harringtons offense lacked work ethic and that the team had poor chemistry and seemingly everyone had the worst years of their careers says something about Harrington.

TheMadLionsFan
06-11-2007, 02:57 PM
OK mr. Mad Lion settle down. Did you even read my post? Cuz you have really missed the point, even though I do love the Billy Madison reference lol. You can sit there and put all the personal blame on each and every player who "busted" around Harrington and the Lions or you can look at it like the Lions were a place where talented players came to rot during the Harrington years. And who is the most important and influential player on a team, the QB of course. When you are a receiver, if you dont have trust in your QB, it affects your level of play, it affects your work ethic. If you are a blocker and you dont trust your QB and feel like even if you do block well, hes gonna get it done, it affects your level of play, it affects your work ethic. So yes when I look at Damien Woody, Rick Demulling, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, Marcus Pollard, among others, who were major dissapointments, I do have to point to Harrington...Because like I said, Demulling and Woody played great when they were blocking for great QBs. But then when they come to the Lions, they lose their work ethic, they become less effective players. Am I saying Harrington should shoulder all the blame? Of course not, because each player has to take personal responsibility for not playing up to their potential and coaches and management deserve blame too. But to just go and clear Harrington, who was supposed to be the franchise QB of the team, of all blame is ridiculous, because as the franchise QB, you are the face of the franchise and the leader of the team and you are largely responsible for everyone around you. You look at any good franchise QB and its clear they make everyone around them better. Or on defense, you look at a franchise player like Ray Lewis, he makes everyone around him better, thats what franchise players do, they take the talent they are surrounded with, and they lead everyone to work hard, play hard, become a cohesive unit. The fact that so many guys on Harringtons offense lacked work ethic and that the team had poor chemistry and seemingly everyone had the worst years of their careers says something about Harrington.

actually.....Harrington showed promise his rookie season...in fact he looked good...he looked confident and wouldn't hesitate to go down field....it wasn't until Marriucci came in and turned him into checkdown charlie....and his scheme was awful...I'm sorry....dare I say...Harrington was better off with Morninweg....I'm not exonerating Harrington at all....but he had no talent here for the majority of his career....and mooch sucked as a head coach in every facet except for maybe press conference....he can be a wonderful politician...

neko4
06-11-2007, 03:37 PM
actually.....Harrington showed promise his rookie season...in fact he looked good...he looked confident and wouldn't hesitate to go down field....it wasn't until Marriucci came in and turned him into checkdown charlie....and his scheme was awful...I'm sorry....dare I say...Harrington was better off with Morninweg....I'm not exonerating Harrington at all....but he had no talent here for the majority of his career....and mooch sucked as a head coach in every facet except for maybe press conference....he can be a wonderful politician...

He did look good that rookie year. He just never got better. Kinda like Rick Mirer

TheChampIsHere
06-11-2007, 03:58 PM
actually.....Harrington showed promise his rookie season...in fact he looked good...he looked confident and wouldn't hesitate to go down field....it wasn't until Marriucci came in and turned him into checkdown charlie....and his scheme was awful...I'm sorry....dare I say...Harrington was better off with Morninweg....I'm not exonerating Harrington at all....but he had no talent here for the majority of his career....and mooch sucked as a head coach in every facet except for maybe press conference....he can be a wonderful politician...

Well i agree Mooch was an awful coach. Arguing who was better b/w him and Morningweg is ridiculous b/c neither should be HCs. I didnt like Mooch when he was on the niners and I didnt like him in Detroit. But to say Harrington had no talent around him is ridiculous. Rather, he was surrounded by talented players who never played to their potential.

keylime_5
06-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Ramsey and Harrington would suck on a good offense like Indy or KC even. Carr would've been okay if he had a good line.

ks_perfection
06-11-2007, 04:20 PM
I vote Ramsey because both Harrington and Carr were given alot more games to produce solid passing attacks. Washington had the most talent offensively around him, but he just wasn't given as much time to grow as the others were.

TheMadLionsFan
06-11-2007, 04:21 PM
Well i agree Mooch was an awful coach. Arguing who was better b/w him and Morningweg is ridiculous b/c neither should be HCs. I didnt like Mooch when he was on the niners and I didnt like him in Detroit. But to say Harrington had no talent around him is ridiculous. Rather, he was surrounded by talented players who never played to their potential.


What receiver, lineman and RB would you have picked up off this team based on performance?


and no receiver has left the Lions and went on to achieve thier "potential"....

HoopsDemon12
06-11-2007, 05:56 PM
and no receiver has left the Lions and went on to achieve thier "potential"....

no they havnt becase theyre careers have pretty much been dug into a terrible whole by they're habbits that they are done in the nfl

BlindSite
06-11-2007, 07:14 PM
What receiver, lineman and RB would you have picked up off this team based on performance?


and no receiver has left the Lions and went on to achieve thier "potential"....

Roy Williams, Pollard, KJ was solid before the injuries.

brat316
06-11-2007, 07:21 PM
I think Ramsey more screwed he isnt even a viable backup, atleast Carr, and Harrington can come in as back ups and compete win some loss some games.

But Ramsey i dont think he can even be a backup, Hopefully Cutler wont go down any time soon.

neko4
06-11-2007, 09:44 PM
Ramsey started 24 games, he got a real chance

TheChampIsHere
06-11-2007, 10:56 PM
What receiver, lineman and RB would you have picked up off this team based on performance?


and no receiver has left the Lions and went on to achieve thier "potential"....

well their production wasnt too good, but there was plenty of talent on this team. Maybe the fact that they never panned out had a lot to do with that they're playing for the Lions with Harrington as their QB.

Regardless, Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Kevin Jones, Marcus Pollard, Damien Woody, Jeff Backus, Rick DeMulling, Stockar McDougle...That right there is a group full of talented players, first round picks, and players who had success elsewhere. Maybe their struggles in Detroit had something to do with Harrington. Or maybe Im just crazy.

255979119
06-11-2007, 11:53 PM
well their production wasnt too good, but there was plenty of talent on this team. Maybe the fact that they never panned out had a lot to do with that they're playing for the Lions with Harrington as their QB.

Regardless, Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Kevin Jones, Marcus Pollard, Damien Woody, Jeff Backus, Rick DeMulling, Stockar McDougle...That right there is a group full of talented players, first round picks, and players who had success elsewhere. Maybe their struggles in Detroit had something to do with Harrington. Or maybe Im just crazy.

Woody was a better center than a guard.

TheMadLionsFan
06-12-2007, 10:46 AM
well their production wasnt too good, but there was plenty of talent on this team. Maybe the fact that they never panned out had a lot to do with that they're playing for the Lions with Harrington as their QB.

Regardless, Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Kevin Jones, Marcus Pollard, Damien Woody, Jeff Backus, Rick DeMulling, Stockar McDougle...That right there is a group full of talented players, first round picks, and players who had success elsewhere. Maybe their struggles in Detroit had something to do with Harrington. Or maybe Im just crazy.


I think your comprehension needs work....

Charles Rogers = two consectutive season ending injuries....a drug suspension and a terrible attitude concerning his playing....therefore buried on the bench....explain Harrington's faults...

Mike Williams = Came into his very first camp overweight....was lazy didn't want to work....and didn't grasp the offense...the next season (when Harrington was gone)....more of the same....hell...his new team...the Raiders isn't too fond of him right now....I guess thats Joey's fault too right?

Raiders coach Lane Kiffin said former Vikings receiver Travis Taylor was signed to increase competition. Kiffin was asked if the move sent a message to the idle Mike Williams.

"I don't know, you have to ask Mike that," Kiffin said. "I would hope so."

Williams and quarterback Josh McCown were acquired in a trade with the Lions last month. A highly touted playmaker from USC, Williams did little in Detroit. So far with the Raiders, Williams has scarcely played because of a leg pull.

Kevin Jones = his rookie year.....he led the second half of the season in rushing....didn't do anything in the first half because he was injured....and in his second season he was injured....and in his third season he was injured...before you continue to go into an analysis.....how can a player contribute if he isn't on the field?....explain that too me...

Rick Demulling was considered a free agent bust as soon as he stepped on the field...

Stockar Mcdougle they let go as a free agent because he was a dissapintment...even before Joey got there...He was a Bobby Ross pick

Jeff Backus is average....

Marcus Pollard was old....

Damien Woody hasn't been committed since he signed here....it is not Joey's fault because he can't keep his weight down...

and this bullsh!t talk about first round picks is absurd....how many first round picks flame out the league in three years?....how many first round picks never meet their potential?...how many first round picks have no business being on the field once you see thier capabilities?...I'm sorry...that first round pick arguement is garbage.....more first round picks flame out that succeed...oh and another thing...Marcus Pollard was in an offense with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James, & Peyton Manning....there is no reason why he shouldn't have had success....as for your other players...LMAO....Charles can't even get a job on a practice squad right...

TheChampIsHere
06-12-2007, 02:41 PM
OK well its like I said, you can sit here and tell me that each of these players was a bust just because they were a bust and its 100% just because they as individuals didnt have what it takes, but I subscribe to the theory that your surroundings have a lot to do with how you turn out as a player and IMO the fact that all these guys came to a horrible team like Detroit with poor coaching and an awful QB had a lot to do with them being busts.

BufFan71
06-12-2007, 04:50 PM
carr, b/c hes never had an o-line, and The Texans even passed Reggie Bush for Mario 4 sack williams

Smokey Joe
06-12-2007, 11:41 PM
Carr by far, but getting drafted by the Lions is never good. I feel bad for Calvin Johsnon...

255979119
06-13-2007, 02:17 AM
Carr by far, but getting drafted by the Lions is never good. I feel bad for Calvin Johsnon...

Meh. He will be an all-pro then leave town and win a championship somewhere else.

Dam8610
06-13-2007, 02:55 AM
more first round picks flame out that succeed

Maybe if you're a Lions or Browns fan, but in general, that's not at all the case.

awfullyquiet
06-13-2007, 05:27 AM
poor harrington, i'm sure, if he was drafted into a better qb system. he'd be decent. but now he has such crappy skills and decision making, it'll be a miracle if he gets out alive.

carr will do fine in Carolina in a few years. he's young enough. he's got time. he's not a horrible qb.

TheMadLionsFan
06-13-2007, 11:26 AM
Maybe if you're a Lions or Browns fan, but in general, that's not at all the case.

Care to back this up with research?.....take all of the first round picks from 2000 - 2005....tell me how many live up to their potential...

Dam8610
06-13-2007, 01:25 PM
Care to back this up with research?.....take all of the first round picks from 2000 - 2005....tell me how many live up to their potential...

Live up to their potential? That's a HIGHLY subjective measurement of success. Also, since the average span of an NFL career is about 3 years, going back to 2000 is a bit far, so giving first round picks a slightly longer average NFL life, I'll start with 2002. Let's just look at how many from each class are projected to start, how many have made Pro Bowls, and how many are out of the league.

2002 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2002):

Starters: 17
Pro Bowlers: 9
Out of League: 3


2003 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2003):

Starters: 20
Pro Bowlers: 6
Out of League: 2

2004 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004):

Starters: 26
Pro Bowlers: 9
Out of League: 2

2005 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2005):

Starters: 26
Pro Bowlers: 3
Out of League: 0

I've included a link to the draft history of each draft on NFL.com, just in case you'd like to check/dispute my figures. A total of 7 1st round picks in those 4 years are no longer in the league, which is about 1/4 of the amount of Pro Bowlers the 1st round has produced in that time, and less than 1/12 of the amount of starters it has produced in that time. Like I said, unless you're the Lions or Browns, you'll more than likely have a successful 1st round pick.