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etk
06-18-2007, 09:03 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/06/17/qbs/index.html

-Eli Manning 23rd, behind Jeff Garcia. Nice!

-Jon Kitna 9th, 3 spots ahead of McNabb

-VY 7th, hahahaha

BlindSite
06-18-2007, 09:19 AM
How does this guy get work?

DeathbyStat
06-18-2007, 09:29 AM
1.P. Manning
2. T. Brady
3. D. Brees
4. C. Palmer
5. M. Bulger
6. M. Hasselbeck

The top six actually isn't that bad but I would put Mcnabb in it. And Kitna should not be that high...or Vince young for that matter

I think Romo is way too high as well

LSUALUM99
06-18-2007, 09:35 AM
If you would read his rankings, you would realize it's based on how he thinks they will do this year. McNabb's injury history is the reason for the lower ranking.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 09:43 AM
How does this guy get work?
QFT.

Find the number that fits least with the rest:

4,391
4,886
2,246
7,006
5,356
3,765

JK17
06-18-2007, 09:53 AM
QFT.

Find the number that fits least with the rest:

4,391
4,886
2,246
7,006
5,356
3,765

Instead of looking at total yards, you could look at YPA, which puts him right there in the middle of that pack you listed. Plus, the article is based around which QB he feels will do best in the next year, so he factored in what he judges as intangibles, which is why the QB you are referencing is ranked where he is. Do I think its low for him? Yes, but citing total passing yards isn't the best way to argue that, considering how many more attmepts he has then those other QBs around him.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 10:06 AM
Instead of looking at total yards, you could look at YPA, which puts him right there in the middle of that pack you listed. Plus, the article is based around which QB he feels will do best in the next year, so he factored in what he judges as intangibles, which is why the QB you are referencing is ranked where he is. Do I think its low for him? Yes, but citing total passing yards isn't the best way to argue that, considering how many more attmepts he has then those other QBs around him.
He's better than everyone around him in several catagories, including wins and TD/INT ratio. Sure he has a mediocre in some stat categories. But, the only reason King put him that far down is because of the "intangable" category, which isn't even a stat, it's a ranking and it's arguable. He is tied for last in the intangable category with Tavaris Jackson. You have to be kidding me. BTW, i'm not going to be defending Eli too much. He does deserve to be moved up 4-5 spots though. I mean, Matt Schaub, Matt Leinart, those guys haven't proven anything yet. Peter King has been considered a joke for quite a while now, this solidifies it in my mind.

JK17
06-18-2007, 10:11 AM
He's better than everyone around him in several catagories, including wins and TD/INT ratio. Sure he has a mediocre in some stat categories. But, the only reason King put him that far down is because of the "intangable" category, which isn't even a stat, it's a ranking and it's arguable. He is tied for last in the intangable category with Tavaris Jackson. You have to be kidding me. BTW, i'm not going to be defending Eli too much. He does deserve to be moved up 4-5 spots though. I mean, Matt Schaub, Matt Leinart, those guys haven't proven anything yet. Peter King has been considered a joke for quite a while now, this solidifies it in my mind.

I'm suprised I actually agree with you on something.

I'm not a huge Manning fan, but I would move him up about the same amount of spots. Bottom line though, its a sportswriter, writing his opinion, to stir up controversy at an otherwise dead time. If you're trying to start a conversation and stir something up, Eli's the guy to do it with.

Schaub, Garcia, Roethlisberger, McNair, maybe Leinart I would put him ahead of, but that's just my opinion...I guess though if your looking at their success that will come on paper though, Leinart would be hard to pick against considering his other weapons.

I only took objection because of the way you tried proving it, with only passing yards..

JF4
06-18-2007, 10:28 AM
HAHAHA....this list sucks. I don't understand how players who have started so few games and are so unproven can be ranked so high i.e Matt Schaub. I wonder how Mcnabb is #12 because we all know that if he's healthy and starting or even when he's not so healthy he's a top 5 QB in the league.

Geo
06-18-2007, 10:36 AM
If I cared what Peter King thought, that might mean something I suppose.

*shrug*
Those egregiously bad points that etk pointed out only serve to reinforce the above.

LSUALUM99
06-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Ok, lets see.

Kitna plays under a Mike Martz as the OC. He has Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson and Mike Furrey (yes the one that caught almost 100 passes last year) to throw to. Kitna also has the potential for a running game in Tatum Bell, and Kevin Jones (if he comes back from injury). The Lions play in an easier division, indoors, and Kitna does not have an injury history.

If you really think that picking Kitna to have 4k passing yards and 25 TD's this year is unreasonable you are an idiot.

Acreboy
06-18-2007, 10:45 AM
At least we think alike.

I'd take Drew Brees over Carson Palmer if I were starting a team right now. Sacrilege! With fewer weapons and the same comeback from serious injury, Brees has narrowly outplayed Palmer over the past two years, and I think it's a good bet he will in '07.

Shaub at 19 is hilarious. He has hardly no experience.

Geo
06-18-2007, 10:51 AM
King gets on his knees for Brees so much, it's ridiculous.

Acreboy
06-18-2007, 10:52 AM
King used to hate the Saints. With a passion.

MaxV
06-18-2007, 10:52 AM
I don't like this list.

- McNabb is still an elite QB.
- I don't like Mike Vick, but there is NO WAY there are 20 QBs in the NFL that make more plays then he does.
- Kitna isn't top 10 QB in the NFL.

keylime_5
06-18-2007, 10:53 AM
People are starting to underate Vick a little. NOt saying he's a good passer, but he had a 20/13 ratio last year, so how is he below Schaub who was his backup last year and looked lousy in relief?

Hah hah, Charlie Frye won't be the Browns' starter this year, all indications are that Derek Anderson will start until Brady Quinn takes over. Way to do your homework King. Brodie Croyle will probably sit behind Damon Huard too, who was great last year until he was benched for Green. McNabb should be #4.

PalmerToCJ
06-18-2007, 11:09 AM
Palmer will put up better numbers than Brees this year. Not that Brees is bad, it's just Palmer was off his marks for the better part of last year and he still flirted with 30 TD's.

draftguru151
06-18-2007, 11:22 AM
The rankings are in the order of who will have the best seasons in 2007 and 2007 only.

It's not his rankings for who are the best QBs, it's who will have the best statistical year in 2007. That's why Kitna is so high. He is predicting bad years for Eli and Vick (probably because of legal issues) and is thinking McNabb might get hurt again. Perhaps if some of you read what he was ranking they would make more sense.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-18-2007, 11:23 AM
That list is horrible. Say what you want about Vick, but as MaxV said, there is not 20 more QB's that make more plays than Vick.

JK17
06-18-2007, 11:26 AM
That list is horrible. Say what you want about Vick, but as MaxV said, there is not 20 more QB's that make more plays than Vick.

See post above yours...

etk
06-18-2007, 11:33 AM
Those egregiously bad points that etk pointed out only serve to reinforce the above.

lol, nice dig. I actually stopped reading his articles 1 year ago, but I had to check this one out for the guaranteed laughter.

King gets on his knees for Brees so much, it's ridiculous.

Every year he picks a new player to slob all over, usually one with a "heartwarming" story, because football doesn't matter to him, just feelings. Expect nothing different this year. My dark horse candidate for King saliva is Trent Green.

YAYareaRB
06-18-2007, 11:33 AM
Damn, Alex Smith is the youngest of all Starting QBs in the league

Billingsley26
06-18-2007, 11:43 AM
That list is horrible. Say what you want about Vick, but as MaxV said, there is not 20 more QB's that make more plays than Vick.

You guys dont understand. He enver said that 20 other QB's will make more plays then Vick, he says that 20 other QB's will be better statistically. For god sakes, Vick might not even be playing this year.

Y'all saying that all these guys havent proved anything either, well to me Eli hasnt proven anything either. VY has proven more to me then Eli. I think VY makes better decisions, better touch on the ball, better arm, better mechanics, and doesnt even have 1/2 of what Elihas around him.

Mcnabb, they say is ahead of schedule, but he is SO prone to injury it isnt even funny anymore. His knees are probably shot right now. There is no doubt in my mind that Mcnabb can be dominant the first 6 weeks of the season, but beyond that is anyones guess.

I understand this list, and I agree with it. As for the guys who says Derek Anderson will start in cleveland is wrong. If you read or listen to any Cleveland or Browns shows clearly says that Frye until Brady is ready. Good list.

TacticaLion
06-18-2007, 11:44 AM
Ok, lets see.

Kitna plays under a Mike Martz as the OC. He has Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson and Mike Furrey (yes the one that caught almost 100 passes last year) to throw to. Kitna also has the potential for a running game in Tatum Bell, and Kevin Jones (if he comes back from injury). The Lions play in an easier division, indoors, and Kitna does not have an injury history.

If you really think that picking Kitna to have 4k passing yards and 25 TD's this year is unreasonable you are an idiot.Someone who actually understands the article.

A Mike Martz offense with great weapons at WR, an improved OLine and better RBs (and their second year in the system).

Kitna isn't a top 10 QB in the league, but will put up some big stats this year.

etk
06-18-2007, 11:47 AM
Someone who actually understands the article.

A Mike Martz offense with great weapons at WR, an improved OLine and better RBs (and their second year in the system).

Kitna isn't a top 10 QB in the league, but will put up some big stats this year.

I agree, it's just funny seeing him so far ahead of McNabb, no matter what the criteria is for ranking. Vince Young will not outproduce either of them, anyway.

ks_perfection
06-18-2007, 11:47 AM
How does he figure that Vince Young will have the 7th best year next season? He lost his 3 best offense weapons and is left with dreadful skill position starters. I don't get it.

SenorGato
06-18-2007, 11:53 AM
How does he figure that Vince Young will have the 7th best year next season? He lost his 3 best offense weapons and is left with dreadful skill position starters. I don't get it.

Not to mention a sub 55% completion percentage, and any other semi-predictive stat for a QB.

reese
06-18-2007, 12:13 PM
to me when i read articles like this...i think the writer more or less did the rankings like that purely for reactions/controversy...it wouldnt get near as much pub if it was a good list...cuz really anyone that watches and knows football couldnt really think what the list said

princefielder28
06-18-2007, 12:17 PM
He's the same guy that said Troy Smith was going to be a Top 3 pick in November

Shiver
06-18-2007, 12:59 PM
Here is my analysis:


The top six are good, but that's the east part.

That is ridiculous logic behind Vince Young being 7th. If Michael Vick is "too inconsistent" as a passer and ranks at 21st, while Vince Young, who is a worse runner and passer at this point in his career is somehow at seven. Simply an absurd contradiction.

Jon Kitna at nine is comical at best. He threw for a lot of yards in Martz' offense, who doesn't?

I love Jay Cutler about as much as you can, maybe not quite as much as Cutler Chris, but he isn't top-10 yet. It is way to early to put him there, though I expect him to have a top-10 year. It's presumptuous, to say the least.

Steve McNair and Brett Favre are bottom of the barrel Quarterbacks that only rank in the mid-range due to name recognition.

Matt Schaub has established a cult following. Media writers love him, with no substance behind their acclaim of him.

Byron Leftwich is grossly underrated.


This is horrible. There are about ten posters here who are more qualified to write about football. Truly a dreadful list, as well as a condemnation of his football knowledge.

scottyboy
06-18-2007, 01:01 PM
Here is my analysis:


The top six are good, but that's the east part.

That is ridiculous logic behind Vince Young being 7th. If Michael Vick is "too inconsistent" as a passer and ranks at 21st, while Vince Young, who is a worse runner and passer at this point in his career is somehow at seven. Simply an absurd contradiction.

Jon Kitna at nine is comical at best. He threw for a lot of yards in Martz' offense, who doesn't?

I love Jay Cutler about as much as you can, maybe not quite as much as Cutler Chris, but he isn't top-10 yet. It is way to early to put him there, though I expect him to have a top-10 year. It's presumptuous, to say the least.

Steve McNair and Brett Favre are bottom of the barrel Quarterbacks that only rank in the mid-range due to name recognition.

Matt Schaub has established a cult following. Media writers love him, with no substance behind their acclaim of him.

Byron Leftwich is grossly underrated.


This is horrible. There are about ten posters here who are more qualified to write about football. Truly a dreadful list, as well as a condemnation of his football knowledge.

only 10? Peter King is really a joke. I think of his lists as comedy more than factional or educational, or what ever he aims for

YAYareaRB
06-18-2007, 01:17 PM
If its predicting stats then what about Alex Smith. He's got Darrell Jackson, Ashlie Lelie, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Marcus Maxwell(Who is tearin it in NFLE) and Vernon Davis to throw to..

etk
06-18-2007, 01:33 PM
If its predicting stats then what about Alex Smith. He's got Darrell Jackson, Ashlie Lelie, Arnaz Battle, Jason Hill, Marcus Maxwell(Who is tearin it in NFLE) and Vernon Davis to throw to..

Your point???

TacticaLion
06-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Here is my analysis:


Jon Kitna at nine is comical at best. He threw for a lot of yards in Martz' offense, who doesn't?


Your point? If he throws for a lot of yards, puts up big numbers and has a great season, why can't he, statistically, be 9th in the league? This is a list of, statistically, the top QBs of 2007... so putting Kitna at 9 makes sense (because, as you said, who doesn't throw for a lot of yards in Martz's offense?).

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 01:57 PM
Your point???
DG151 said that Peter King is predicting how the QBs will do in 2007. YayareaRB is pointing out that Alex Smith has some nice targets to throw to this year and therefore will have a good season. That's very understandable. I feel the same way about Eli Manning actually.

Shiver
06-18-2007, 01:57 PM
TD/INT ratio is a statistical category as well..

YAYareaRB
06-18-2007, 01:59 PM
TD/INT ratio is a statistical category as well..

But Vince Young is 7th

neko4
06-18-2007, 02:02 PM
Kitna will have a good year and all but he's gonna have CJ, Williams, Furry and McDonald. Tough life huh?

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:02 PM
What exactly is he looking for when he takes "intangables" into consideration?

draftguru151
06-18-2007, 02:05 PM
DG151 said that Peter King is predicting how the QBs will do in 2007. YayareaRB is pointing out that Alex Smith has some nice targets to throw to this year and therefore will have a good season. That's very understandable. I feel the same way about Eli Manning actually.

I think etk was making fun of the fact that that isn't the best receiving group.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:09 PM
I think etk was making fun of the fact that that isn't the best receiving group.
Clearly an upgrade over what they had last year. Same story with the Giants.

draftguru151
06-18-2007, 02:15 PM
Jackson's good and Davis will be better, but they are still losing Bryant. Those guys really shouldn't be an argument about why Smith will be better.

Jughead10
06-18-2007, 02:21 PM
What exactly is he looking for when he takes "intangables" into consideration?

Yeah it is pretty funny to me that Croyle, McCown, Campbell, amongst others have better intangibles than Eli according to him. Not that I'm advocating moving Eli up all that much, but if anything the intangibles are in his favor. His problems are very tangible.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:24 PM
Jackson's good and Davis will be better, but they are still losing Bryant. Those guys really shouldn't be an argument about why Smith will be better.
Jason Hill and Ashlie Lelie will contribute some. I don't even know who the 49ers WRs were last year other than Bryant and Battle.

So they lose Bryant

Add - Jackson, Hill and Lelie.

Then factor in the Davis will be better, and you have a much greater WR corp.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:26 PM
Yeah it is pretty funny to me that Croyle, McCown, Campbell, amongst others have better intangibles than Eli according to him. Not that I'm advocating moving Eli up all that much, but if anything the intangibles are in his favor. His problems are very tangible.
I'm not even sure as to the exact meaning of the word. Is it leadership? Is it clutch performances? What exactly does that word mean?

Dam8610
06-18-2007, 02:32 PM
What exactly is he looking for when he takes "intangables" into consideration?

Seemingly a category in which he can still have Tom Brady as #1.

MasterShake
06-18-2007, 02:34 PM
Jason Hill and Ashlie Lelie will contribute some. I don't even know who the 49ers WRs were last year other than Bryant and Battle.

So they lose Bryant

Add - Jackson, Hill and Lelie.

Then factor in the Davis will be better, and you have a much greater WR corp.

The WR corp is better top to bottom, Better starters and better depth. Obviously its still not a great receiving corp...but its waaaay better than last year.

Who started 2 games when Bryant got suspended...Bryan Gilmore? Who?

While Bryant was talented...the subtraction of his attitude nearly equals out the loss of his skill.

I think Smith may end up higher than 25th in the league....since he was around 22nd last year with less talent around him and less experience.

MasterShake
06-18-2007, 02:36 PM
I'm not even sure as to the exact meaning of the word. Is it leadership? Is it clutch performances? What exactly does that word mean?

Intangibles are all those things....everything you can't measure about a QB basically.

I think the reason Eli is so low is he is thought to have poor leadership of his team and seems to look defeated when things aren't going well.

Jughead10
06-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Intangibles are all those things....everything you can't measure about a QB basically.

I think the reason Eli is so low is he is thought to have poor leadership of his team and seems to look defeated when things aren't going well.

I'll give you that. However his best attribute seems to be the 2 minute drill late in a game which many people put in the intangible category. I'm obviously not saying he has great intagibles, but certainly not the worst in the league and lower than guys who have never taken a meaningful snap in their life.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:39 PM
Seemingly a category in which he can still have Tom Brady as #1.
That's an idiotic category and shouldn't be used along with the rest of the legitimate stats. It's a category that can be debated. The rest of them cannot.

ricky bobby
06-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Intangibles are all those things....everything you can't measure about a QB basically.

I think the reason Eli is so low is he is thought to have poor leadership of his team and seems to look defeated when things aren't going well.
He needs to work on his leadership, i'll give you that. But, if you look at some of his fourth quarter heroics in the past, that would be considered intangable too. Whatever he means by that category, Eli should not be tied for last in it, especially with a unproven guy like Tavaris Jackson.

PoopSandwich
06-18-2007, 02:51 PM
People are starting to underate Vick a little. NOt saying he's a good passer, but he had a 20/13 ratio last year, so how is he below Schaub who was his backup last year and looked lousy in relief?

Hah hah, Charlie Frye won't be the Browns' starter this year, all indications are that Derek Anderson will start until Brady Quinn takes over. Way to do your homework King. Brodie Croyle will probably sit behind Damon Huard too, who was great last year until he was benched for Green. McNabb should be #4.

Sorry to disagree with you, but it's been being said that Anderson looks good, but not to get your hopes up because its no pads, just shorts and a helmet throwing the ball around.

All indication is that Frye will start because he has seen every single team in the first 4 weeks of our season and is the most experienced.

keylime_5
06-18-2007, 03:51 PM
Vick had 2500uyds/20tds/13ints and 1000 rushing yds. last year and now he has an offensive coach to guide him. I think he'll have a better year with Joe Horn, and even if he is suspended I think it'll either A)be for 2008 or B)not be that many games. He should go by per game stats anyway, not season stats because you can have a better year than someone who played 16 games if you play in 8 and totally outperform them game by game.

Ewing
06-18-2007, 03:56 PM
Even as a Vince Young fanboy there is no way he should be seventh. Putting him ahead of McNabb is downright insane.

BaLLiN
06-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Even as a Vince Young fanboy there is no way he should be seventh. Putting him ahead of McNabb is downright insane.
I wouldn't say insane, McNabb is good but we don't know if he'll be as good as he was, plus Vince is a major game changer, I would say top 10 for Vince and top 15 for McNabb.

ninerfan
06-18-2007, 04:30 PM
Damn, Alex Smith is the youngest of all Starting QBs in the league

At 23 and 2 years starting experience I think he's atleast on the way up. Not just Alex but that list is BS - guys that have played less than 1/2 a year are ahead, guys that have been carer backups are ahead.

So I say thank you Peter King because and your article are a joke

CW99
06-18-2007, 04:46 PM
All i gotta say is when they throw **** on McNabb he always comes back gleaming. Last year throught he 1st half of the season he had more TD and yards then ANY Qb in the league the man is amazing this year i predict

Yards TD Int Comp%
3,500 32 12 65.4

TigerBait45
06-18-2007, 05:04 PM
I think he'll have a better year with Joe Horn, .

I don't know if I agree. Horn's aging rapidly. If he stays healthy he can be a solid guy but the last few years he hasn't shown that he can stay healthy anymore, and when he is on the field he seems to have lost a step.

GermanSaint
06-18-2007, 05:07 PM
@ all you guys who are surprised by the brees ranking ... watch more football and give him a few more weapons ....

Moses
06-18-2007, 06:10 PM
I don't know if I agree. Horn's aging rapidly. If he stays healthy he can be a solid guy but the last few years he hasn't shown that he can stay healthy anymore, and when he is on the field he seems to have lost a step.

Vick just needs somebody who can catch the ball.

skinzzfan25
06-18-2007, 07:17 PM
He needs to work on his leadership, i'll give you that. But, if you look at some of his fourth quarter heroics in the past, that would be considered intangable too. Whatever he means by that category, Eli should not be tied for last in it, especially with a unproven guy like Tavaris Jackson.

Just because he led that comeback against the Eagles last year does not mean he's freakin John Elway. I have no idea where you and GRF get this whole "clutch" thing. If anything, he crumbles under pressure due to his lack of leadership.

Jughead10
06-18-2007, 07:36 PM
Just because he led that comeback against the Eagles last year does not mean he's freakin John Elway. I have no idea where you and GRF get this whole "clutch" thing. If anything, he crumbles under pressure due to his lack of leadership.

Its actually been a few times besides that Eagles game. But I wouldn't expect a Foreskins fan to know that or anything football related for that matter.

skinzzfan25
06-18-2007, 07:43 PM
Its actually been a few times besides that Eagles game. But I wouldn't expect a Foreskins fan to know that or anything football related for that matter.

Fill me in then, all knowing one. That's the only one I can think off of my head.

Jughead10
06-18-2007, 07:45 PM
Fill me in then, all knowing one. That's the only one I can think off of my head.

Once against the Cowboys on the road and Denver at home. Thats just off the top of my head. I believe in Seattle too but our kicker blew that three times.

skinzzfan25
06-18-2007, 07:53 PM
Once against the Cowboys on the road and Denver at home. Thats just off the top of my head. I believe in Seattle too but our kicker blew that three times.

Was just about to edit in the Denver one, I'll give him that, he did well towards the end of the game.

But when I think of somebody having a "clutch intangible," I think of Joe Montana, Elway, Namath. Not Eli Manning :|

Jughead10
06-18-2007, 07:59 PM
Was just about to edit in the Denver one, I'll give him that, he did well towards the end of the game.

But when I think of somebody having a "clutch intangible," I think of Joe Montana, Elway, Namath. Not Eli Manning :|

Obviously. I'm not saying he is any of those guys. But to have Peter King's lowest intangible rating is a pretty rediculous. Thats all. Especially when he is ranked behind guys that have either never had a clutch moment in their life or even never played in one meaningful game.

skinzzfan25
06-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Obviously. I'm not saying he is any of those guys. But to have Peter King's lowest intangible rating is a pretty rediculous. Thats all. Especially when he is ranked behind guys that have either never had a clutch moment in their life or even never played in one meaningful game.

Oh, alright then.

He does have a somewhat valid argument, but not for dead last. What Eli lacks in leadership, poise and overall confidence should keep him down near the bottom of the list. I mean every QB has their moments. Brunell led two comebacks against Dallas and one against Jacksonville, but he still sucks nut :P

Well King's the pet monkey of SI. I'm surprised he didn't rank Campbell last lol.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-18-2007, 09:13 PM
Actually I found the comments in the link to that board entertaining to read of people going back and forth about what the list should be.

Mr. Stiller
06-18-2007, 10:28 PM
I'm going to hear that I'm a homer, but honestly look at this.



Players From 7 to 11 ~ Have not won a playoff game, haven't proven anything. Got handed a high "Intangible" # and skipped over proven people.
Players from 7 to 15 ~ Again, haven't won a playoff game, and shouldn't be above Ben.
Age ~ Ben is only 25, has 4 Playoff wins (Not including the SB ring). He's one of 2 QB's to have over 3 wins in the entire rankings, putting him on the plateau of Manning. Even looking at 3+, Brady, Hasselbeck, Manning and Roeth.
Statistically ~ Manning and Romo are the only 2 to have a higher YDS/ATT average... and Romo has 8.61, Manning 8.06, Roeth 8.00.

Considering his down season, his 61% completion rate is still solid, and not far off the lead.

Yards ~ people always talk about Ben and how he's a system QB and he's not an efficient passer. This is what I found interesting.


Ben Had 5,898 yards in the last 2 seasons.
Hasselbeck Had 5901 yards in the last 2 seasons


Wouldn't that either make Ben a legit QB (I understand Manning/Palmer/Brady had near 8k, none of those QB's have missed games due to injury, both Hasselbeck and Roeth Have), or Hasselbeck a system QB that isn't capable of leading a team?





As for Kings Intangible rankings, they're a joke..

Young a 7?
Favre an 8?
Roethlisberger a 5?

I think I proved my point.

Acreboy
06-18-2007, 11:01 PM
I think some people are misreading the list.


The rankings are in the order of who will have the best seasons in 2007 and 2007 only.
Not who's the best QB in order. It's possible for a lower ranked overall QB i.e. VY to have a better year than an overall better QB i.e. McNabb.

ricky bobby
06-19-2007, 10:15 AM
Exclusive footage of Eli's response to King ranking him 23rd.

Giantsfan1080
06-19-2007, 11:36 AM
Oh, alright then.

He does have a somewhat valid argument, but not for dead last. What Eli lacks in leadership, poise and overall confidence should keep him down near the bottom of the list. I mean every QB has their moments. Brunell led two comebacks against Dallas and one against Jacksonville, but he still sucks nut :P

Well King's the pet monkey of SI. I'm surprised he didn't rank Campbell last lol.

He even led the Giants back in the 4th quarter of the playoff game last year but the defense couldn't stop anyone after that.

nfrillman
06-19-2007, 04:58 PM
There is a lot to disagree with in this list, but VY's rating is the most insane. I thoroughly enjoyed watching all of his comebacks last year, but look at the stats, not very good at all. His reasoning for having Kitna at 9 is all the weapons and the system around him, which makes sense to me. It would seem however, that the same logic could be applied in reverse with VY, who are is weapons?

As for the listing of Niner recievers and saying that that is a reason to have Alex Smith ranked higher, HA. Please do not claim that so and so is tearing up in NFLE, because that does not matter. You know who else has tour it up in NFLE, Lawrence Phillips, that's right, THE Lawrence Phillips. Here is a quick list of WR's that I would take as my team's #1 over Darrell Jackson:

Holt, Bruce, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Driver, Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Smith, Colston, T.O., Randy Moss, Coles, Chambers, Lee Evans, Harrison, Wayne, Andre Johnson, CJ, Housh, Ward, and Javon Walker........I'm sure there are more that others would include on that list as well.

All in all, I think that Niners fans are getting a bit too enthusiastic about their chances this year. They are certainly getting better but they still have work to do.

Acreboy
06-19-2007, 06:08 PM
Why are people throwing out past numbers? That doesn't matter towards who will have the best season this year.

Geo
06-19-2007, 07:12 PM
Here is a quick list of WR's that I would take as my team's #1 over Darrell Jackson:
D-Jax is a number one, when healthy.

nfrillman
06-19-2007, 09:44 PM
D-Jax is a number one, when healthy.

I never said he wasn't a #1 when healthy, but one has to factor in the health issue. I was simply saying that I would take all those guys as my number 1 before Jackson, but you can see that some of those guys play on the same team and there aren't 32 of them, so obviously that still leaves Jackson as a "number 1", I'm just saying if he were on teams with those other guys he would be a number 2 or sometimes a 3.

Nitschke-Hawk
06-20-2007, 10:28 AM
Peter just stick to your insider info, you know nothing about the actual game of football.

YAYareaRB
06-20-2007, 12:04 PM
There is a lot to disagree with in this list, but VY's rating is the most insane. I thoroughly enjoyed watching all of his comebacks last year, but look at the stats, not very good at all. His reasoning for having Kitna at 9 is all the weapons and the system around him, which makes sense to me. It would seem however, that the same logic could be applied in reverse with VY, who are is weapons?

As for the listing of Niner recievers and saying that that is a reason to have Alex Smith ranked higher, HA. Please do not claim that so and so is tearing up in NFLE, because that does not matter. You know who else has tour it up in NFLE, Lawrence Phillips, that's right, THE Lawrence Phillips. Here is a quick list of WR's that I would take as my team's #1 over Darrell Jackson:

Holt, Bruce, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Driver, Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Smith, Colston, T.O., Randy Moss, Coles, Chambers, Lee Evans, Harrison, Wayne, Andre Johnson, CJ, Housh, Ward, and Javon Walker........I'm sure there are more that others would include on that list as well.

All in all, I think that Niners fans are getting a bit too enthusiastic about their chances this year. They are certainly getting better but they still have work to do.

Oh do you feel accomplished for listing better WRs that are out there? How and in what way is this proving a point?

nfrillman
06-20-2007, 07:12 PM
Oh do you feel accomplished for listing better WRs that are out there? How and in what way is this proving a point?

Umm, I believe the point I am making is quite clear if you had read the rest of the thread. A Niner fan stated that Alex Smith should be rated higher because of the WR's on the roster, including one that is "tearing it up in NFLE", much like the reasoning for having Kitna rated 9. I simply stated, along with others, that bringing up the Niner's WR corps as a big plus for their offense is utterly ridiculous. I then went on to make a point that there are numerous WR's better than their best, which helps to further illustrate the point that their WR corps are not a gigantic plus for them. No one besides a homeristic Niner fan would claim that the Niner's WR corps are among the best in the NFL. Hopefully I have cleared up your confusion.

YAYareaRB
06-20-2007, 10:45 PM
Umm, I believe the point I am making is quite clear if you had read the rest of the thread. A Niner fan stated that Alex Smith should be rated higher because of the WR's on the roster, including one that is "tearing it up in NFLE", much like the reasoning for having Kitna rated 9. I simply stated, along with others, that bringing up the Niner's WR corps as a big plus for their offense is utterly ridiculous. I then went on to make a point that there are numerous WR's better than their best, which helps to further illustrate the point that their WR corps are not a gigantic plus for them. No one besides a homeristic Niner fan would claim that the Niner's WR corps are among the best in the NFL. Hopefully I have cleared up your confusion.

Okay I stated that, but its clearly and upgrade from last year. Like Kitna, Alex Smith has been surrounded with weapons, good or not.. It's a vast upgrade from last year. Last year, Alex Smith had a mediocre season with not too many weapons. I think it's safe to say that he'll have a better season than last to be ranked higher than 25 out of 32, wouldn't you say? I wasn't trying to prove that D-Jack and co. were better than other WR corps in the NFL, I said it was a vast upgrade from last years.

nfrillman
06-20-2007, 11:11 PM
Okay I stated that, but its clearly and upgrade from last year. Like Kitna, Alex Smith has been surrounded with weapons, good or not.. It's a vast upgrade from last year. Last year, Alex Smith had a mediocre season with not too many weapons. I think it's safe to say that he'll have a better season than last to be ranked higher than 25 out of 32, wouldn't you say? I wasn't trying to prove that D-Jack and co. were better than other WR corps in the NFL, I said it was a vast upgrade from last years.

I can definitely agree that their WR corps are better this year than last year. I am just saying that even with the upgrade their WR corps are still not great. I also commend you for saying that Alex Smith had a mediocre season last year, because it seems that Niners fans think he was a top 10 QB last year or something. He was 22nd in rating last year. I think he will get better, but he still has a ways to go.

YAYareaRB
06-21-2007, 12:01 AM
I can definitely agree that their WR corps are better this year than last year. I am just saying that even with the upgrade their WR corps are still not great. I also commend you for saying that Alex Smith had a mediocre season last year, because it seems that Niners fans think he was a top 10 QB last year or something. He was 22nd in rating last year. I think he will get better, but he still has a ways to go.

But we're certainly making the strides to get him where he needs to be. I want to hear your insight on the Vince Young ranking..

nfrillman
06-21-2007, 05:21 PM
But we're certainly making the strides to get him where he needs to be. I want to hear your insight on the Vince Young ranking..

The Vince Young rating is the most ridiculous thing in that whole article. He uses the logic that Kitna will perform at a high level because of the weapons around him, which I think will probably be right. But if one uses that logic it would seem that one would apply the same logic in reverse with the Titans and their complete lack of anything resembling a weapon. Plus the fact that statistically Young was not really that impressive last year.

etk
06-21-2007, 09:50 PM
The Vince Young rating is the most ridiculous thing in that whole article. He uses the logic that Kitna will perform at a high level because of the weapons around him, which I think will probably be right. But if one uses that logic it would seem that one would apply the same logic in reverse with the Titans and their complete lack of anything resembling a weapon. Plus the fact that statistically Young was not really that impressive last year.

Plus the statistical fact that appearing on the cover of Madden is virtually career suicide.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
06-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Cutler's position is baffling. He should be at least... 10 spots higher.

Jk.

I think he's not there yet. But he will be. I think for this year, 3500 yards and 30 TDs(extrapolated over a season, his stats would be about that, and add in Marshall and Scheff with another year of experience, Lepsis and hopefully a better line and an improved running game, I think he could easily do it) unfortunately he might probably get 11-13 INTs. But that's okay for a second year guy with so many positives.

JK17
06-21-2007, 10:23 PM
Cutler's position is baffling. He should be at least... 10 spots higher.

Jk.

I think he's not there yet. But he will be. I think for this year, 3500 yards and 30 TDs(extrapolated over a season, his stats would be about that, and add in Marshall and Scheff with another year of experience, Lepsis and hopefully a better line and an improved running game, I think he could easily do it) unfortunately he might probably get 11-13 INTs. But that's okay for a second year guy with so many positives.

I could see the TDs based on the type of QB he is, a "gunslinger", but only 11-13 interceptions I think is giving him to much credit. Especially if you are going to extrapolate his TD:INT ratio, assuming he got 30 TDs, he'd be sitting around 17-18 INT. Plus, roughly a 3:1 TD:INT ratio is godly to give to any second year QB, particularly one who will take more risks, like a Jay Cutler would. With 3500 yards, and a 30 TD:12 INT ratio, he'd have been only slightly behind Peyton Manning statistically.

3500 yards 25 TD: 15 INT I would say, at least IMO as an outsider in the situation, would be more realistic.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
06-21-2007, 11:41 PM
I could see the TDs based on the type of QB he is, a "gunslinger", but only 11-13 interceptions I think is giving him to much credit. Especially if you are going to extrapolate his TD:INT ratio, assuming he got 30 TDs, he'd be sitting around 17-18 INT. Plus, roughly a 3:1 TD:INT ratio is godly to give to any second year QB, particularly one who will take more risks, like a Jay Cutler would. With 3500 yards, and a 30 TD:12 INT ratio, he'd have been only slightly behind Peyton Manning statistically.

3500 yards 25 TD: 15 INT I would say, at least IMO as an outsider in the situation, would be more realistic.

Yeah, 11-13 is the low end. He threw one per game on average last year, so I don't think that average will necessarily go up. I wasn't thinking about the ratio when I wrote that, it certainly would be Godly. I'd maybe say 15-17, as much as he's a gunslinger, he slings so well defenders can't touch it. Like against the Bengals(I think), he threw a one yard strike that if 90% of other QBs threw, woulda been a pick-six. So maybe he was also a bit lucky. I dunno. But regardless, as long as he has more TDs than INTs, that's good for a first full season starter.

Anyway, through the rambling: I could see him maybe, if he really gets better, throwing as few as 11-12, but if he has a more natural progression, probably 14-17 would be more realistic. And anywhere between 25 and 30 TDs could be attainable, again depending on how much he progresses, and how much Shanny decides to rely on Henry, especially inside the 20.

thebestest
06-22-2007, 09:04 AM
Intangibles? Eli got hit hard on that, but he's shown us many times his heroics in the 4th quarter. Give him the 2 minute drill, he'll get you downfield for a score 9/10 times. His leadership sucks though, but thats because of his quiet personality, and the fact that the Giants have too many loud mouths on the team...

That being said, with his total yardage, #TD's, and take into consideration his complicated playbook compared to other QB's from the same draft, he's easily in the top 15.

Big Ben and Philip Rivers only know two plays, screens, and handoffs.

And I knew this article was BS when I saw Vince Young at #7. He's not in the top 20 in my mind.

JK17
06-22-2007, 10:06 AM
none of that is really relevant though, is it? cutler will beat up philip rivers both physically and statistically next year. =P

Oh no you didnt.....:p

Well at least he's got the Angry Russian Igor Olshansky on his side, ask Tom Nalen about that nice little punch he got last year...

JK17
06-22-2007, 10:07 AM
Big Ben and Philip Rivers only know two plays, screens, and handoffs.

I'd respond to this, but such a comment really only shows you don't know what your talking about, and no one will take you seriously anyway.

JK17
06-22-2007, 10:34 AM
meh. nalen will break olshansky's knees with his forehead.

Unfortunately, thats true.

EdReedUnstoppable
06-24-2007, 09:17 AM
McNair is way too high!!

I would definitely take any of the following over him:

Brett Favre
Chad Pennington
Jake Delhomme
Mike Vick
Jason Campbell

High Roller
06-24-2007, 10:30 AM
Hasselbeck is on the decline...no way he's top 6 worthy. Replace him with McNabb.

High Roller
06-24-2007, 10:49 AM
Alex Smith behind Eli is total crap.

YAYareaRB
06-24-2007, 02:41 PM
Hasselbeck is on the decline...no way he's top 6 worthy. Replace him with McNabb.

Think about it.. He's predicting Hasslebeck's stats, which on paper, will make him look good. He's throwing to Deion Branch, DJ Hackett, Nate Burleson and Bobby Engram. Not to mention Mack Strong, Marcus Pollard and Shaun Alexander. Not really deep at the QB position so, barring injury, If I were to predict Hasslebeck's season.. He'd be going to the pro bowl. I believe that's what the system is for Peter King's ramblings..

Primetime21
06-24-2007, 07:02 PM
Alex Smith should be in top 15. If you see how much he has progressed lately and how he makes plays out of nothing. Alex>>VY. THis is coming from someone who thought he was going to be out of the league in 5 years but every game I see of him, makes me see something special.

Alex Smith will get some respect this year.

YAYareaRB
06-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Why Vince Young is rated that high is beyond me..

Sniper
06-24-2007, 07:18 PM
McNair is way too high!!

I would definitely take any of the following over him:

Brett Favre
Chad Pennington
Jake Delhomme
Mike Vick
Jason Campbell

Mike Vick? Really? I think Vick is a poor excuse for a QB, but hey that's just me.

EdReedUnstoppable
06-25-2007, 07:48 AM
Mike Vick? Really? I think Vick is a poor excuse for a QB, but hey that's just me.

Well I'm not saying he is great but I'd take him over McNair.

ricky bobby
06-25-2007, 08:42 AM
Alex Smith behind Eli is total crap.
The entire list is crap. But, Eli is better than Alex Smith.

etk
06-25-2007, 09:10 AM
The entire list is crap. But, Eli is better than Alex Smith.

According to who? You state that as if it's fact. Neutral fan over here says Alex is better, in his opinion.