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View Full Version : declining and assending programs


HoopsDemon12
06-20-2007, 09:20 PM
There seems to be a lot of change in college football i have noticed... teams like miami, florida state, nebraska and Iowa after some nice runs are starting to lose a lot of game. no i know miami has the talent but they need to put that together...
Where as programs like Rutgers, USF, mizz and Illinios all appear to be starting to get hot... what are some other teams that have jumped up or down in your oppinions

Aswell wasnt WVU a no name school till slaton and white... or am i mistaken on that one... i only started following collge football closely two years ago or so, so i am not sure

*If i spelt the title of the thread wrong im sorry

SunDevil450
06-20-2007, 11:24 PM
Well WVU has always had a decent team they had some memorable wins in the 80's against PSU and a close game against Miami in the 90's however this is the best WVU team i have seen in a long time

SuperKevin
06-20-2007, 11:49 PM
I definately think Ron Zook is going to turn Illinois around.

reese
06-21-2007, 12:12 AM
there is such a ridiculus amount of talent in florida that i voted for usf

TouchdownUSC
06-21-2007, 01:46 AM
i voted for rutgers. i think they will only get better. the big east is on its way to getting respect if teams like rutgers, louisville and west virginia can play solid year after year

Jonny
06-21-2007, 03:33 AM
Rutgers and USF should be consistent top 25 teams. Anything more is still up in the air at this point.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
06-21-2007, 08:32 AM
I think that USF is definetly a program that is on the rise. Head Coach Jim Leavitt has done a great job with that program in the years since the program began. He should be able to find more than enough talent down there in Florida. They will be a force in the Big East for years to come.

I also think Illinois is going to make a comeback. I know that Zook is a very good seller because I have no idea how you can get 5-star recruits to a 2-10 school. I am sold on the Illini with there players now, but will Zook be able to coach all of this talent?

Gchu83
06-21-2007, 08:53 AM
Rutgers...Big East schools seem to be gaining some steam. TCU always has good teams but UT and OU will always get the best players in Texas with Texas Tech and Texas A&M following suit.

scottyboy
06-21-2007, 09:53 AM
Rutgers, considering I'm a homer, and i have sat through many brutal seasons of 1-11, 0-12 and have watched massive beatings of 78-7, to later see 5 years later, have those 2 schools play, and have Rutgers lose by only a 2pt conversion.

-black
06-21-2007, 09:55 AM
USF....BCS Bowl game this year

BufFan71
06-21-2007, 11:24 AM
Colorado b/c im a homer and Hawkins in turning the program around...i hope

-black
06-21-2007, 02:58 PM
FSU is going to destroy Colorado this season....and then snatch up D. Scott and ruin the Buffs dreams of getting him

BufFan71
06-21-2007, 03:13 PM
ha yur a funny guy.....
tell me another joke funny guy

Green Bay Scat
06-21-2007, 03:18 PM
Vandy has, i remember when they couldnt compete with Anal Beads, now they can beat good programs, i mean them in the top 50? lol i can see a bowl for the first time in awhile

jbeans187
06-21-2007, 03:29 PM
This is tough, Illinois is bringing in alot of talent, but can Ron Zook coach? Rutgers is going to get alot more east coast recruits, and Schiano is great. TCU, i dont know much about them other than their defense is nasty. USF should be good the next few years with Grothe. I go to Missouri so i am bias, but our offense should be top notch, our whole season depends on our defense.

Don Vito
06-21-2007, 04:14 PM
Boston College is going to improve a lot, they have done some solid recruiting and coach Jags is doing some great stuff for the team already. Plus I love the ZBS and the Josh Haden commitment. Come on EJ Manuel and Deion Walker!

-black
06-21-2007, 04:19 PM
ha yur a funny guy.....
tell me another joke funny guy

a joke? hmmm

knock knock of college footballs door



"whose there"

Colorado

"Colorado who?"



LMAO

-black
06-21-2007, 04:20 PM
Boston College is going to improve a lot, they have done some solid recruiting and coach Jags is doing some great stuff for the team already. Plus I love the ZBS and the Josh Haden commitment. Come on EJ Manuel and Deion Walker!

EJ Manuel>>>> FSU

BerninWI
06-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Notice how many of the schools mentioned are Big East schools? You think there might be an explanation for that supposed coincidence. Like maybe; their ascent is due largely to the fact they play in what's essentially a gift wrapped mid major conference. Half of those programs were mid majors two years ago, the other half was the low to mid range big east teams. I'm not saying there has been no improvement amongst some of the teams. Rutgers probably wouldn't even have beaten a crappy/wholly inexperience Illinois team a couple years ago, let alone beat them easily. But they aren't as good as that conference makes them look. None of them are. Programs just don't make metamorpheses overnight. But fans of these teams can take solace in the fact that; while there is little merit in the reality of improvement, perception is really all that matters in recruiting. You improve in reality thru your ficticious improvement. The positive change in Rutger's recruiting, for example, is self evident the last 2-3 years. Rutgers star per player average has increased each of the last 3 years. The same is the case with Louisville. West Virginia's jumped substantially last year. South Florida the last 3 years. Recruits know if they sign with South Florida, at least now they know they'll play in a "major" conference. I think most improvement amongst these teams the past 2 years is perception, but a couple years it will be reality, after the teams reap the rewards from better recruits.

So to answer the original question: Rutgers and Illinois; for the future.

BufFan71
06-21-2007, 05:37 PM
How is FSU gonna beat Colorado with Xavier Lee or drew weatherford at qb?

Michigan
06-21-2007, 05:50 PM
I don't think any of these programs will become "Big Time" like the poll says, but Illinois is the only one with the potential to. They play in a major conference, have a decent sized stadium, and are becoming a recruiting power.

I can't really consider Rutgers or USF future powerhouses, as Louisville and WVA aren't even at that stage. Powerhouses are programs that guzzle up millions of dollars, consistently contend at the national level, and have hundreds of big-time recruits begging to play for them. Examples of powerhouses would be USC, OSU, Michigan, LSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.

Jonny
06-21-2007, 06:27 PM
Boston College is going to improve a lot, they have done some solid recruiting and coach Jags is doing some great stuff for the team already. Plus I love the ZBS and the Josh Haden commitment. Come on EJ Manuel and Deion Walker!

Manuel seems like a FSU lock. I think QB is going to get BC in trouble, as TOB ignored that during the end of his tenture.

Notice how many of the schools mentioned are Big East schools? You think there might be an explanation for that supposed coincidence. Like maybe; their ascent is due largely to the fact they play in what's essentially a gift wrapped mid major conference.

Why do fans of teams from other conferences feel a need to bash on the Big East?

By any computer measurement in 2006, the Big East was the second best conference. They won most of their OOC games. What more do you want? Certain teams like Rutgers need to beef up the schedule in the future, but that's happening with Notre Dame etc... getting put on the schedule.

Any of the "they haven't beaten anybody" arguments fail to hold water. Who did the ACC beat in 2006? Who did the Big XII beat? Wisconsin played one of the easiest schedules in the country, no one's questioning them.

But they aren't as good as that conference makes them look. None of them are. Programs just don't make metamorpheses overnight.

You can say this about every conference but the SEC. Which team changed "overnight"? Rutgers for one last year depended heavily on contributions from its upperclassmen that had to live through a painful rebuilding. It went from 5 to 7 to 11 wins. Did it get a few lucky bounces in 2006? Probably, but it's not going away.

scottyboy
06-21-2007, 06:37 PM
Rutgers should be considered a future power house seeing that Schiano is keeping in state talent here(see Anthony Davis) and is stil big down in Miami. Rutgers actually has billboards down in Florida, and Greg goes down there often to recruit.

Jonny
06-21-2007, 06:38 PM
I don't think any of these programs will become "Big Time" like the poll says, but Illinois is the only one with the potential to. They play in a major conference, have a decent sized stadium, and are becoming a recruiting power.

I can't really consider Rutgers or USF future powerhouses, as Louisville and WVA aren't even at that stage. Powerhouses are programs that guzzle up millions of dollars, consistently contend at the national level, and have hundreds of big-time recruits begging to play for them. Examples of powerhouses would be USC, OSU, Michigan, LSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.

The Big East teams are indeed far away from getting that level of fan support, and that remains the conference's biggest challenge. However, on the field, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Big East teams kept their coaches from Miami and Alabama (and don't forget the USF coach turned down Ole Miss and K-State). This is where the Big East perhaps holds its biggest advantage over other conferences. Dantonio and Petrino left, but arguably two of the best hires arrived in Kelly and Kragthorpe.

I view the key litmus test as when the next round of conference hopping and bowl affiliations occur. The Big East surely will do better than their atrocious 2005 deal, but they need to secure another major bid to really secure the conference's future. And we're still looking for another mid-major school to step up to the plate and show that it deserves a shot at the BCS.

Rutgers should be considered a future power house seeing that Schiano is keeping in state talent here(see Anthony Davis) and is stil big down in Miami. Rutgers actually has billboards down in Florida, and Greg goes down there often to recruit.

We're doing pretty good, but we still have a way to go. The Will Hills of the world need to stay home.

scottyboy
06-21-2007, 06:41 PM
The Big East teams are indeed far away from getting that level of fan support, and that remains the conference's biggest challenge. However, on the field, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Big East teams kept their coaches from Miami and Alabama (and don't forget the USF coach turned down Ole Miss and K-State). This is where the Big East perhaps holds its biggest advantage over other conferences. Dantonio and Petrino left, but arguably two of the best hires arrived in Kelly and Kragthorpe.

I view the key litmus test as when the next round of conference hopping and bowl affiliations occur. The Big East surely will do better than their atrocious 2005 deal, but they need to secure another major bid to really secure the conference's future. And we're still looking for another mid-major school to step up to the plate and show that it deserves a shot at the BCS.



We're doing pretty good, but we still have a way to go. The Will Hills of the world need to stay home.

Will Hill has always said he just wants to go far away from home. My high schools QB is transfering to Hill's school and said the Will has just always wanted to get away from home, which is understandable. I also think that kid maybe trouble.

BerninWI
06-21-2007, 07:57 PM
Why do fans of teams from other conferences feel a need to bash on the Big East?

By any computer measurement in 2006, the Big East was the second best conference. They won most of their OOC games. What more do you want? Certain teams like Rutgers need to beef up the schedule in the future, but that's happening with Notre Dame etc... getting put on the schedule.

I want to wait and see when the Big East doesn't play a sissy bowl schedule. Rutgers v. K-State. West Virginia v. Ga Tech (showed off the Mountaineers great D prowess against a great offense). Louisville v. Wake Forest. South Florida v. East Carolina. C'mon....those are tailor made victorious. The bowl committees certainly didn't believe they would have competitive games unless they matched them up against much lower ranked opponents.

Any of the "they haven't beaten anybody" arguments fail to hold water. Who did the ACC beat in 2006? Who did the Big XII beat? Wisconsin played one of the easiest schedules in the country, no one's questioning them.

Wisconsin beat Arkansas. That's better than any win the big east had out of conference. Also beat what turned out to be a pretty good Penn State team, considering they beat Tennessee in their bowl. Wisconsin also has proven themselves over years in a major conference. Beat Auburn and Michigan the year before. Won 3 straight games at Columbus against OSU and 4 of 6. Winning record against PSU since they joined the conference. 9-3 or whatever in bowl games. 3 big ten championships in 14 years. 3 major bowl wins in 14 years. We've proven it for years and proven it against teams who've proven it. Please don't compare the big east or Rutgers to Wisconsin.

Which team changed "overnight"? Rutgers for one last year depended heavily on contributions from its upperclassmen that had to live through a painful rebuilding. It went from 5 to 7 to 11 wins. Did it get a few lucky bounces in 2006? Probably, but it's not going away.

Errrrrr......Rutgers, Cincy, South Florida. South Florida was 4-7 in a mid major conference before they joined the big east. Cincy was an average C-USA team. Rutgers went from 4-7 (1-5) in the old big east to 7-5 (4-3) in the new big east. They all recruited like mid major schools (including Rutgers), yet all of a sudden they have major caliber players because they realigned their conference? West Virginia went from pretty good major team to great major team, immediately upon joining the big east. They've always had a good offensive system and players like Amos Z., Cobourne and athletic QB's. Nothing has changed really. It didn't elevate them to elite status in the past though. I'll give it to them, in 2005, they had a good win over Georgia. They won the occasional big game in the past too. But play 8-9 games a year in the SEC and Big Ten, and their lack of defense would be exposed. Those conferences actually have teams who play BOTH offense AND defense.

Jonny
06-22-2007, 01:23 AM
What control did the Big East have over the bids? They were re-aligned after the ACC defections. They can't be changed for a couple of years.

My argument was about 2006 and only 2006. What does anything else matter? Hey, Rutgers won the first football game ever, guess that means I can infer that they will go undefeated.

I'll compare to Wisconsin all I want. They played a horrific schedule. No Ohio State. Bowling Green, Western Illinois, San Diego State, and Buffalo were easily the worst OOC schedule in the country, inexcusable with no OSU on the schedule. Wisconsin only played three teams that were any good in 2006.

Rutgers's schedule actually got harder in 2005/2006 than in 2004 (after Miami and VT left, before the new additions joined). Do you think adding Louisville was responsible for gaining 7 wins from 2004? And they were not recruiting like a mid major. If you go back to 2002, Schiano had started pulling in the occasional **** player, and it got better every year. THAT is what explains the improved play.

Cincy was terrible its first year in the Big East, much worse than they had been in 2004. However, they were really young, and they used that experience to be much better in 2006. Same for USF, they had several winning seasons in C-USA before a rebuilding season their last year there.

West Virginia was a top program in the Major Harris days, long before they joined the Big East.

8-9 games a year vs. the SEC or Big Ten? You don't play Florida or Michigan every game. Those conferences are better at the top, but they're actually much worse as the bottom. Northwestern and Vanderbilt are just as much in those conferences.

In conclusion, you've shown you're not familiar with the Big East programs at all, and your argument clearly confuses correlation with causation.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-22-2007, 07:08 AM
Will Hill has always said he just wants to go far away from home. My high schools QB is transfering to Hill's school and said the Will has just always wanted to get away from home, which is understandable. I also think that kid maybe trouble.

I am Rutgers fan as well, and remember the days when we sucked soooooooooo badly. I still liked watching those games because at that point I found it funny that my HS games seemed to have more people in the stands.

But I think the future is good, but we need some more good seasons before recruits stay at home regularly. Getting Davis and Abreu was huge for us, and I doubt Hill would stay home, but if we can get Frost and other guys, I think Coach S. can do his thing. Remember it's not like we became good by recruiting top notch players. We recruited 3 star and 2 star guys and they worked out well for us.

Giantsfan1080
06-22-2007, 07:30 AM
Also Rutgers already has two 4 star recruits for next year. 5 years ago Rutgers would not be on anyone's recruiting list nevermind getting two verbals this early in the process. Kids are starting to want to go there and with all the talent in New Jersey it's going to be good for the school and the state. Rutgers has everything it needs to become a semi powerhouse.

jbooshey
06-22-2007, 08:31 AM
Wisconsin played one of the easiest schedules in the country, no one's questioning them.

You must not have been paying attention...EVERYONE was question Wisconsin's legitimacy because of their schedule.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-22-2007, 08:45 AM
Also Rutgers already has two 4 star recruits for next year. 5 years ago Rutgers would not be on anyone's recruiting list nevermind getting two verbals this early in the process. Kids are starting to want to go there and with all the talent in New Jersey it's going to be good for the school and the state. Rutgers has everything it needs to become a semi powerhouse.

Yeah kids are wanting to come, but I am still waiting for the day that we can keep the Will Hills, and Rolles in state. That would be such a great day or time period! If we can limit the efforts of USC, ND, BC and other schools in being successful in picking top talent from Jersey I think that would be a great thing.

CC
06-22-2007, 10:23 AM
Will Hill has always said he just wants to go far away from home. My high schools QB is transfering to Hill's school and said the Will has just always wanted to get away from home, which is understandable. I also think that kid maybe trouble.

I don't know, sounds like he at least has some semblance of intelligence as he knows well enough to get the hell out of New Jersey.

scottyboy
06-22-2007, 10:44 AM
I don't know, sounds like he at least has some semblance of intelligence as he knows well enough to get the hell out of New Jersey.

actually, he has family issues, and he's a trouble maker. I for one am happy he's not going to Rutgers.

roidrunner
06-22-2007, 04:16 PM
before i vote.. i need to know where louisville stands. are they a power? where does louisville stand?

HoopsDemon12
06-22-2007, 04:24 PM
before i vote.. i need to know where louisville stands. are they a power? where does louisville stand?

I would say there just kinda there... not really moving up or down IMO... by the way nice responces to the thread keep it up

Jonny
06-22-2007, 06:28 PM
I don't know, sounds like he at least has some semblance of intelligence as he knows well enough to get the hell out of New Jersey.

New Jersey is a lot nicer than Michigan. It's also the wealthiest state.:eek:

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-22-2007, 06:46 PM
I'll try and be different and say ASU.

StaticGator
06-25-2007, 09:14 AM
Whoever takes over for Ron Zook in 2-3 years is going to have a talented team. When that guy "weeds" out all the knuckleheads, gets the players in shape, and teaches them how to win, they'll contend for the Big 10.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
06-25-2007, 10:46 AM
Ron Zook made a championship caliber team down in UF, too bad he couldn't coach it. Zook's gonna make another championship caliber team at Illinois, who cares if he won't be there for the championship, some dude like Urban Meyer will just come around and coach it for them. Illinois is gonna be a scary team in a year or two(if Zook learns to coach if not, when he's fired)

miketomczak
06-25-2007, 12:34 PM
Is it really true that Ron Zook can't coach? Maybe he should have been given a few more years at Florida? Maybe people should give him one more chance. If Illinois still sucks in three years then ok, until then give the guy a break...

also, sure, the big east isn't that great, but i don't remember people saying that about the acc in the past. before Miami and Va Tech came the only powerhouse/consistent team was Florida St. everyone was else was pretty horrible. at least the big east has a few decent schools.

and finally, can we consider Pitt as an ascending team? their past few recruiting classes have been good. or is Wannedstat just another Zook?

HoopsDemon12
06-25-2007, 02:52 PM
Well i envy the coach that will get that team... they are gonna have some serious talent down there... im looking forward to watching juice to benn

CW99
06-25-2007, 04:59 PM
Hawaii is on an up swing

but i feel Maryland is falling may just be me though