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skinzzfan25
06-25-2007, 04:05 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/bucky_brooks/06/25/top.receivers/index.html

NOTE: BASED ON UPCOMING 2007 SEASON.


1. Steve Smith, Carolina Panthers: The ultimate offensive weapon has almost single-handedly carried the Panthers' offense the past two seasons. Smith's outstanding speed, quickness and leaping ability enable him to take over a game, which sets him apart from the rest of the receivers. With a league-best 13 100-yard performances in the past two seasons, Smith has proven to be a dominant force despite lacking a complementary playmaker on the offense. His dominance will continue as he and two-time Pro Bowl QB Jake Delhomme form the foundation of the Panthers' new offensive attack.

2. Chad Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals: The flamboyant playmaker has led the AFC in receiving yards for four consecutive seasons. As a polished receiver with excellent speed and hands, he has thrived as the favorite target of Carson Palmer in the Bengals wide open offense. Still showing a penchant for getting deep, Johnson led the league with eight receptions over 40 yards last season. With Palmer rounding back to Pro Bowl form, expect Johnson to continue to post big numbers.

3. Roy Williams, Detroit Lions: As the "go-to guy" in Mike Martz's high octane offense, Williams had a breakout season in 2006 with over 1,300 receiving yards and a league-leading 24 receptions over 20 yards. A big, physical receiver with outstanding athleticism and hands, he finally showed the dominant ability that everyone expected when he entered the league. Teaming with Mike Furrey and rookie Calvin Johnson, in the Lions' version of "The Greatest Show On Turf", Williams will see more single coverage this season, which spells big trouble for defenses.

4. Marvin Harrison, Indianapolis Colts: A polished route runner with excellent quickness and burst, he sets the standard for consistency at the position. As the lead receiver in one of the league's most dynamic offenses, he has posted eight consecutive seasons with over 1,000 yards and double-digit touchdowns. Even with the emergence of Reggie Wayne, there's no reason to think Harrison won't continue to be as effective in 2007.

5. Terrell Owens, Dallas Cowboys: The controversial superstar led the league in touchdown receptions in 2006, but suffered a down year by his standards. Though his season totals should have earned him Pro Bowl accolades, his high number of drops diverted attention away from his positive impact on the Dallas offense. Fully recovered from a wrist injury and playing in an offense that will accentuate his strengths, he will have a big season as Tony Romo's favorite target in 2007.

6. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans: The Texans' "one-man show" hauled in 103 receptions without a legitimate threat on the other side. With an outstanding combination of size, speed and strength, Johnson overpowers smaller defenders in one-on-one match-ups. Though he is sure to see a lot of double coverage, he should see his production rise with new quarterback Matt Schaub under center.

7. Donald Driver, Green Bay Packers: Brett Favre's No. 1 target is one of the most underrated receivers in the league. An outstanding playmaker, Driver has posted over 1,200 receiving yards in three consecutive seasons. After earning his first Pro Bowl nomination, he is finally beginning to get the recognition he deserves. With limited weapons in the backfield, Driver may shatter his career highs in receptions and yards in 2007.

8. Javon Walker, Denver Broncos: After posting a 1,000-yard season in his first season as a Bronco, Walker has established himself as Jay Cutler's favorite target. A vertical playmaker, he excels at double moves and deep routes off play action. With Travis Henry commanding attention in the backfield, Walker and Cutler should hook up for several big plays in 2007.

9. Anquan Boldin, Arizona Cardinals: This two-time Pro Bowler has been a dominant force since stepping into the league. Boldin has two 100-catch seasons and three seasons with over 1,200 receiving yards in his four-year career, and few defenders have found a way to slow him down. Using his outstanding athleticism to make up for unpolished route running skills, he does most of his damage as a runner after the catch. With promising Matt Leinart directing a new wide open attack, Boldin will continue to be a force in 2007.

10. Randy Moss, New England Patriots: Once viewed as the best receiver in the league, Moss has fallen from his perch at the top. After displaying lackluster effort and sloppy route running last season, his reputation as one of the premier deep threats has been tarnished. But he is poised to bounce back with a strong season in 2007, when he'll team with Tom Brady to form a lethal big-play combination.

11. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts: The second member of the Colts' dynamic duo finally escaped Marvin Harrison's shadow with a big season in 2006. As one of the best route runners in the business, he quietly put up over 1,300 yards with nine touchdowns and earned his first Pro Bowl bid. He has earned Peyton Manning's trust and has closed the gap on Harrison as the Colts' feature guy.

12. Torry Holt, St. Louis Rams: As the fastest receiver to reach 10,000 receiving yards, Holt has been a model of consistency throughout his career. A precise route runner with a bag of tricks, he is one of the best at setting up defenders with a series of fakes. His quickness out of breaks makes him hard to guard and he continues to be a legitimate deep threat in the Rams' offense. Though he doesn't get as many chances to get down the field, Holt is still one of the best playmakers in the league

13. Lee Evans, Buffalo Bills: After being used primarily as a deep threat during his first two seasons, Evans showed he was capable of being a legitimate No. 1 receiver last season. Featured as the go-to guy in Steve Fairchild's high octane offense, he responded with 82 receptions for over 1,200 yards with eight scores. With six receptions over 40 yards, he and J.P. Losman have become one of the league's best big play combinations.

14. Plaxico Burress, NY Giants: The Giants' top receiving threat has become Eli Manning's security blanket. With 17 touchdowns and 11 receptions over 40 yards in his two seasons in New York, Burress has established himself as one of the league's best big-play threats. As the Giants look to replace the production of Tiki Barber, Burress is sure to see more balls thrown in his direction.

15. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals: After leading the league in receptions (103) in 2005, Fitzgerald saw his production suffer as the Cardinals broke in a rookie quarterback. But he is poised to bounce back in a major way in 2007. Blessed with outstanding size, he is one of the best at adjusting to bad balls. As a clutch receiver with a penchant for coming down with the tough grab, he has become Leinart's favorite red zone target. Though he has to share the ball with Boldin in the Cardinals' offense, Fitzgerald should still be very productive in 2007.

16. Santana Moss, Washington Redskins: After torching the league two seasons ago on his way to his first Pro Bowl bid, Moss saw his production fall off dramatically in 2006 as a new offensive scheme and inconsistency at the quarterback position limited his opportunities. But with Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts forming one of the top rushing attacks, Moss should see more single coverage on early downs. With his outstanding speed and quickness, he will dominate those match-ups on his way to a big season in 2007.

17. T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Cincinnati Bengals: Often overshadowed by his flamboyant counterpart, Houshmandzadeh does the dirty work for the Bengals. An excellent slot receiver with deceptive quickness, he terrorizes defenses over the middle of the field. Though he recorded his first 1,000-yard season last year, he has been the glue to their offense for the past few seasons.

18. Deion Branch, Seattle Seahawks: The former Super Bowl MVP has never posted a 1,000-yard season in his five-year career. But with the departures of Darrell Jackson and Jerramy Stevens leaving a huge void in the pass attack, Branch should top the 1,000-yard mark this year. As a precision route runner with the courage and quickness to work over the middle, he will get plenty of looks as Matt Hasselbeck's primary target.

19. Laveranues Coles, NY Jets: The feature receiver in the Jets offense has been steady and consistent as Chad Pennington's favorite target. Viewed as a speed receiver entering the league, he has developed into one of the league's best route runners. Providing the perfect complement to the Jets' improved rushing attack, Coles should post solid numbers this season.

20. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions: The rookie playmaker from Georgia Tech is set to make the biggest impact of any rookie receiver since Moss in 1998. A phenomenal athlete, he will feast off the single coverage he faces opposite Williams. Playing in a high octane offense directed by Martz, Johnson will be an immediate impact player in Detroit.

21. Mark Clayton, Baltimore Ravens: The third-year receiver quietly took over as the Ravens' top wideout last season. A crafty route runner with sneaky speed and quickness, he makes his living working over the middle. But with five receptions over 40 yards, his ability to get deep should not be overlooked. With Derrick Mason, 33, losing a step and Todd Heap garnering most of the defense's attention, Steve McNair will make Clayton his No. 1 target.

22. Reggie Brown, Philadelphia Eagles: Lost in the hype of the Eagles' playoff run was the emergence of Brown. Playing as the lead receiver in a balanced offense, Brown responded by averaging over 17 yards per catch with eight touchdowns. He is an ideal receiver in a West Coast offense. With Donovan McNabb set to return, Brown should see his numbers jump dramatically as one of McNabb's favorite targets.

23. Hines Ward, Pittsburgh Steelers: Rarely mentioned in the same breath as other top receivers, Ward epitomizes the Steelers' blue collar personality. Not necessarily fast or quick, he is a tough, crafty player who goes about his business with little fanfare. His production has fluctuated over the past five seasons, but look for him to catch a ton of balls this season as Ben Roethlisberger's favorite receiver.

24. Darrell Jackson, San Francisco 49ers: The newly acquired Jackson gives the 49ers a legitimate No. 1. Though he suffers from an occasional drop, Jackson is a smooth route runner who has a knack for getting open. Injuries have slowed him over the past two seasons, but he has enough left in the tank to thrive as Alex Smith's go-to guy.

25. Marques Colston, New Orleans Saints: Coming off a surprising rookie season, Colston will have to shake the "one-year wonder" label. A raw route runner who relies on his size and athleticism to win one-on-one match-ups, he'll have it a little tougher during his second season. Now viewed as the lead receiver in the Saints' offense, Colston will face the opposition's top corner and coverage, all designed to take him out of the game. Though he will continue to be Drew Brees' favorite target, his production may not match his rookie season totals.


__________________________________

Pretty fair assessment. In my opinion, little to high for Walker and Colston + Ward should be higher. Having CJ at 20 makes no sense. Dude hasn't caught a ball in the NFL yet. The Lions won't have the 3rd and 20th best receiver with Kitna throwing the ball.

Ravens1991
06-25-2007, 04:07 PM
I would put Randy Moss higher.

ncstateviking
06-25-2007, 04:10 PM
fitz behind, driver? go home and try again.

SuperMcGee
06-25-2007, 04:12 PM
Too low for Torry Holt. Fitz is also too low for my liking. The list is not to my liking in general, but for faring in 2007 I won't raise much objection.

PACKmanN
06-25-2007, 04:13 PM
how so? have you seen any packer games? Driver is never coved by one person its always by 2 or 3. The Cards have so many targets its easy for Fitz to get open.

Go_Eagles77
06-25-2007, 04:13 PM
Glad to see Brown getting some love, would like to see him a little higher though.

GB12
06-25-2007, 04:14 PM
fitz behind, driver? go home and try again.

what about the 7 guys between Driver and Fitz? What makes you pull Driver out like that instead of someone like Plax or Evans that are right above him?

TitleTown088
06-25-2007, 04:17 PM
I can see the argument for Driver being lower on the list because he's not a sexy pick. However, he has continued to produce the past two seasons being the only real recieving threat on his team. all in all I think Driver is a bit of a stretch, I'd be happy with Driver around 10, 11, or 9, but it's nice to see him get some recognition too.

PoopSandwich
06-25-2007, 04:17 PM
This list is awful.

nfrillman
06-25-2007, 04:18 PM
Any list of WR's that doesn't have Holt in the top 10 is completely ridiculous. Almost every list I've seen has him in the top 5 at least, a number 12 ranking is just stupid. There is no way he should be below Johnson, Driver, Walker, Boldin, Moss, or Wayne. I would personally have him no lower than 5 ever, that means above TO. But that's okay, Holt has always been disrespected by analyst. They always mention him on their way to getting a boner for some other WR, usually Steve Smith.

PACKmanN
06-25-2007, 04:18 PM
what about the 7 guys between Driver and Fitz? What makes you pull Driver out like that instead of someone like Plax or Evans that are right above him?

his name says it all, he a viking fan.

Caddy
06-25-2007, 04:18 PM
No love for Joey Galloway? I mean they have a rookie on there and he has never played a down in his career.

skinzzfan25
06-25-2007, 04:21 PM
This list is awful.

Well it was inspired by King's QB rankings.

Last week SI.com's Peter King ranked the 32 starting quarterbacks, which inspired me to look more closely at my former position, wide receiver.

If Peter King inspires you to do anything, it's probably gonna suck.

Don Vito
06-25-2007, 04:24 PM
Yea this is pretty bad Fitz is in the top 5, at least the top 10 in my book. Holt is definitely a top 10 guy as well, and you could make an arguement for Reggie Wayne to be a top 10 guy.

princefielder28
06-25-2007, 04:25 PM
I'm suprised to see Hines Ward so low. He may not always put up eye popping receiving numbers but he may be the best blocking receiver in the league.

reese
06-25-2007, 04:26 PM
outside of the top 5...i dont like it...calvin johnson..even being a freak of nature shouldnt be on the list

GB12
06-25-2007, 04:27 PM
My 25

1. Steve Smith
2. Torry Holt
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Chad Johnson
5. Andre Johnson
6. Larry Fitzgerald
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Roy Williams
9. Donald Driver
10. Terrell Owens
11. Javon Walker
12. Anquan Boldin
13. Randy Moss
14. Lee Evans
15. Plaxico Burress
16. Hines Ward
17. TJ Who'syourmomma
18. Reggie Brown
19. Santana Moss
20. Laveranues Coles
21. Mark Clayton
22. Marques Colston
23. Darrell Jackson
24. Dieon Branch
25. Chris Chambers

PoopSandwich
06-25-2007, 04:33 PM
Jackson and Clayton on that list makes the list a bad list...

From what I've heard, 49'rs coaches are already ticked off with Jackson and are very unimpressed.

keylime_5
06-25-2007, 05:00 PM
Driver is very underrated, he's right where he belongs. Randy Moss should be higher. Where the heck is Joey Galloway??!!!???!?!?!! He's better than half of the guys on that list right now at age 34 or whatever, and had better seasons than most of those guys last year with freaking Bruce Gradkowski throwing to him behind a bad OLine with no RB. And he's probably one of the 5 fastest WRs in the NFL still.

GermanSaint
06-25-2007, 05:56 PM
colston is a little overrated , so is moss by a large margin

Acreboy
06-25-2007, 06:00 PM
People still continue to not read the fine print. This is not who's better skill wise. NOT skill wise. The list is actually pretty good.

Read this.

here are my top 25 wide receivers based on how I think they will fare in 2007Again, not who's better, who will have better numbers.

ncstateviking
06-25-2007, 06:12 PM
i mention driver and not evans and such because of the range. if fitz belongs above driver, wouldnt that also mean that he belongs well above evans? driver is 3 or 4 spots too high. fitz should be 5-6 driver borderline top 10.

and im a jets fan.

ncstateviking
06-25-2007, 06:14 PM
oh...and im not saying he is ranked accurate. but to all the steelers fans who say hines ward is a top 50 nfl PLAYER. here is a list where he isnt even a top 20 WR.

Damix
06-25-2007, 06:15 PM
i mention driver and not evans and such because of the range. if fitz belongs above driver, wouldnt that also mean that he belongs well above evans? driver is 3 or 4 spots too high. fitz should be 5-6 driver borderline top 10.

and im a jets fan.

driver doesn't have another probowl WR next to him, of course he'll get more catches/yards.

Moses
06-25-2007, 06:17 PM
hahahahaahhaahhaahahahaah

Calvin Johnson at #20? What a joke.

Paul
06-25-2007, 06:19 PM
Even though at 4, Marvin is to low on that list IMO. So is Holt.

49ersfan_87
06-25-2007, 06:23 PM
Jackson and Clayton on that list makes the list a bad list...

From what I've heard, 49'rs coaches are already ticked off with Jackson and are very unimpressed.

Where did you hear that? It seems they are upset with lelie, not jackson.

yo123
06-25-2007, 06:33 PM
Awful list. Roy williams at 3? Why is Harrison behind him? Mark Clayton shouldnt be on the list, hes not even a 1000 yard receiver. Torry Holt at 12 is a complete joke. Hes a top 5 WR. And yeah, Calvin Johnson hasnt played a down yet...

Acreboy
06-25-2007, 06:51 PM
Awful list. Roy williams at 3? Why is Harrison behind him? Mark Clayton shouldnt be on the list, hes not even a 1000 yard receiver. Torry Holt at 12 is a complete joke. Hes a top 5 WR. And yeah, Calvin Johnson hasnt played a down yet...PAY ATTENTION. It goes by what he thinks the guys will produce not how they're ranked according to talent.

Geez.

Roy-1310 yards

Holt-1188

Roy wins.

Ravens1991
06-25-2007, 06:58 PM
Awful list. Roy williams at 3? Why is Harrison behind him? Mark Clayton shouldnt be on the list, hes not even a 1000 yard receiver. Torry Holt at 12 is a complete joke. Hes a top 5 WR. And yeah, Calvin Johnson hasnt played a down yet...

Clayton could definetly get 1,000 yards, I think he can be a top 25 reciever but not ahead of Colston.

jackalope
06-25-2007, 09:01 PM
Nice to see Driver getting respected.

no love
06-25-2007, 10:13 PM
Any list of WR's that doesn't have Holt in the top 10 is completely ridiculous. Almost every list I've seen has him in the top 5 at least, a number 12 ranking is just stupid. There is no way he should be below Johnson, Driver, Walker, Boldin, Moss, or Wayne. I would personally have him no lower than 5 ever, that means above TO. But that's okay, Holt has always been disrespected by analyst. They always mention him on their way to getting a boner for some other WR, usually Steve Smith.

Even as a Niner fan I can agree with you and attest to this. T Big Game Holt has got serious game. I seriously think that he and Bruce were the biggest reasons both Warner and Bulger had so much success with the big plays.

Brent
06-25-2007, 10:15 PM
Calvin Johnson haven't even played a game!

VY10
06-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Awful list. Roy williams at 3? Why is Harrison behind him? Mark Clayton shouldnt be on the list, hes not even a 1000 yard receiver. Torry Holt at 12 is a complete joke. Hes a top 5 WR. And yeah, Calvin Johnson hasnt played a down yet...

Harrison has peyton manning throwing to him... Roy plays for the lions.

TO needs to be lower. Its his job to catch balls and he drops some easy ones. he is also a team/coach killer and a bad locker room influence.

Damix
06-25-2007, 10:19 PM
Harrison has peyton manning throwing to him... Roy plays for the lions.

TO needs to be lower. Its his job to catch balls and he drops some easy ones. he is also a team/coach killer and a bad locker room influence.

Which has nothing to do with this list, do people read anymore?

Dam8610
06-25-2007, 11:15 PM
Even though at 4, Marvin is to low on that list IMO.

I'm glad I didn't have to say it. Marvin was the ONLY WR in the NFL last season to be in the top 5 in receptions (3rd), receiving yards (2nd), and receiving TDs (2nd), and he was top 3 in each category. It's not like a lot of that is a rare occurence for him either. Since 1999, Marvin has ranked no lower than 4th (2003) in any given season in TD receptions, has been out of the top 10 in receiving yards once in that time (2004), and out of the top 10 in receptions twice in that span (2004, 2005). Unless he thinks the Colts offense is going to regress or Gonzalez is going to make a HUGE impact, his ratings of both Harrison and Wayne are pretty low, as they were definitely 2 of the 4 best WRs statisically last year, and arguably the two best (Owens has a strong case against Wayne, Holt has a lesser one).

BigDawg819
06-25-2007, 11:16 PM
Jackson and Clayton on that list makes the list a bad list...

From what I've heard, 49'rs coaches are already ticked off with Jackson and are very unimpressed.

Mark Clayton is better then every wide receiver on your roster combined. I like Clayton's inclusion on this list and after this season he should be higher. Although the lower rankings of Torry Holt and gasp Hines Ward disturbed me, also Plexiglass should be a bit lower because with no running game I doubt he will have a very productive year.

PoopSandwich
06-25-2007, 11:44 PM
Where did you hear that? It seems they are upset with lelie, not jackson.

I saw somewhere that the Seahawks were upset with Darrell Jackson and the 49'rs are the same way.

"Darrell Jackson, WR, San Francisco

Sure, he fills a hole, but if he were all that valuable, do you think Seattle would've given up on him? When I visited the Seahawks last summer, coaches were frustrated trying to get him on the field. I think the same thing will happen in San Francisco. Jackson is talented; he's just not tough. "

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10234368

So the post proves you right, I read it wrong.

I just don't think Jackson is a good receiver, I've never liked him at receiver and I don't think he will do good there.

Smokey Joe
06-26-2007, 12:47 AM
This list is awful.
no truer words have been spoken.

Caddy
06-26-2007, 12:48 AM
Driver is very underrated, he's right where he belongs. Randy Moss should be higher. Where the heck is Joey Galloway??!!!???!?!?!! He's better than half of the guys on that list right now at age 34 or whatever, and had better seasons than most of those guys last year with freaking Bruce Gradkowski throwing to him behind a bad OLine with no RB. And he's probably one of the 5 fastest WRs in the NFL still.

I like you :)

BigDawg819
06-26-2007, 01:06 AM
no truer words have been spoken.

How about the White Sox are awful this year?

Ewing
06-26-2007, 01:49 AM
Reggie Brown ahead of Hines Ward is ****ing idiotic.

islandboy843
06-26-2007, 02:08 AM
15. Larry Fitzgerald


This is some BS

BlindSite
06-26-2007, 04:52 AM
Steve Smith should be higher










j/k

bored of education
06-26-2007, 07:50 AM
whoaa not cool PK

High Roller
06-26-2007, 09:18 AM
Pretty bad list...Holt deserves top 5 over Roy Williams. Moss and Plax way overrated, especially Plax.

iloxygenil
06-26-2007, 09:29 AM
Any list of WR's that doesn't have Holt in the top 10 is completely ridiculous. Almost every list I've seen has him in the top 5 at least, a number 12 ranking is just stupid. There is no way he should be below Johnson, Driver, Walker, Boldin, Moss, or Wayne. I would personally have him no lower than 5 ever, that means above TO. But that's okay, Holt has always been disrespected by analyst. They always mention him on their way to getting a boner for some other WR, usually Steve Smith.

Blatant Homerism...you are bashing Boldin (who if I'm not mistaken was what, 2nd in the league in receptions 2 years ago, and was over 1200 yards last year...) Moss, who is arguably still the best WR in the game, and is whenever he wants to prove a point, lets hope he doesn't up in NE, Walker who even after a knee injury had nearly 1100 yards teaming with a rookie QB most of the way, Driver, who is one of the hardest workers in the NFL and constantly is putting up stats that no one should scoff at. I mean Holt had a good year last year for a bad team, and has been consistent, but at some point his production has to drop off, he's getting up there in terms of a WR. 9 years in the league already. Not saying he's not a very solid WR, but he's not someone who's going to get a lot of praise anymore because of his team.

He's still a solid player and really one of the better WRs in the league, but I think after you look at his last 4 years of production, it's hard to believe he can put those numbers up again...

ShutDwn
06-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Blatant Homerism...you are bashing Boldin (who if I'm not mistaken was what, 2nd in the league in receptions 2 years ago, and was over 1200 yards last year...) Moss, who is arguably still the best WR in the game, and is whenever he wants to prove a point, lets hope he doesn't up in NE, Walker who even after a knee injury had nearly 1100 yards teaming with a rookie QB most of the way, Driver, who is one of the hardest workers in the NFL and constantly is putting up stats that no one should scoff at. I mean Holt had a good year last year for a bad team, and has been consistent, but at some point his production has to drop off, he's getting up there in terms of a WR. 9 years in the league already. Not saying he's not a very solid WR, but he's not someone who's going to get a lot of praise anymore because of his team.

He's still a solid player and really one of the better WRs in the league, but I think after you look at his last 4 years of production, it's hard to believe he can put those numbers up again...

Moss is not arguably the best WR in the NFL at all. He is talented, but he doesn't use it, that isn't an excuse for him to gain rankings. Culpepper has talent and had an amazing season 3 years ago, is he still arguably a top 3 QB? Whenever he wants to prove a point? Being the best WR for a day doesn't mean much if you aren't going to be the entire season.

Acreboy
06-26-2007, 10:58 AM
Reggie Brown ahead of Hines Ward is ****ing idiotic.
Brown will have a bigger year than Ward so he is higher on the list.

This makes sense people.

MasterShake
06-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Jackson and Clayton on that list makes the list a bad list...

From what I've heard, 49'rs coaches are already ticked off with Jackson and are very unimpressed.

What??? lol

Jackson is still recovering from turf-toe. He wanted to participate in the OTA's, but the coaching staff wants him to be fully rehabbed for Training camp.

They said he has been a good presence in the locker room and has attended all OTA's even though he couldn't play.

We'll see how he looks in TC, but as of now he has done what was expected.

MasterShake
06-26-2007, 12:29 PM
I saw somewhere that the Seahawks were upset with Darrell Jackson and the 49'rs are the same way.

"Darrell Jackson, WR, San Francisco

Sure, he fills a hole, but if he were all that valuable, do you think Seattle would've given up on him? When I visited the Seahawks last summer, coaches were frustrated trying to get him on the field. I think the same thing will happen in San Francisco. Jackson is talented; he's just not tough. "

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10234368

So the post proves you right, I read it wrong.

I just don't think Jackson is a good receiver, I've never liked him at receiver and I don't think he will do good there.


Ahhhh...I see this has been addressed.

jdcdam1
06-26-2007, 12:33 PM
In terms of production, i guess the list is Okay...but in terms of the actual better player...the list is way off....

yourfavestoner
06-26-2007, 01:31 PM
I personally think Santonio Holmes is going to outperform Hines Ward this year.

Denver Bronco99
06-26-2007, 02:02 PM
Driver ahead of walker....LOL


when walker was on the packers he was their number one

nfrillman
06-26-2007, 02:12 PM
Blatant Homerism...you are bashing Boldin (who if I'm not mistaken was what, 2nd in the league in receptions 2 years ago, and was over 1200 yards last year...) Moss, who is arguably still the best WR in the game, and is whenever he wants to prove a point, lets hope he doesn't up in NE, Walker who even after a knee injury had nearly 1100 yards teaming with a rookie QB most of the way, Driver, who is one of the hardest workers in the NFL and constantly is putting up stats that no one should scoff at. I mean Holt had a good year last year for a bad team, and has been consistent, but at some point his production has to drop off, he's getting up there in terms of a WR. 9 years in the league already. Not saying he's not a very solid WR, but he's not someone who's going to get a lot of praise anymore because of his team.

He's still a solid player and really one of the better WRs in the league, but I think after you look at his last 4 years of production, it's hard to believe he can put those numbers up again...

Blatant homerism? That's why several non-Rams fans have said Holt is far too low. That is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here, and there have been some doozies.

First off, I think the phrase you were looking for was "his last 7 years of production", or his entire career besides rookie year. So I am not sure why he wouldn't continue to put up the production that he has always done. Secondly, I'm not sure why his team has anything to do with him getting praise, unless its simply that St.Louis is not a media magnet. I am also not sure if you are familiar with the WR position, but the great ones play well into their 30's. Holt just turned 31 on June 5 and has 8 years experience. Harrison- 34 with 11 years experience, Driver- 32 with 8 years experience, TO- 33 with 11 years experience, Moss- 30 wiith 9 years experience. So yeah, obviously Holt is a fossil compared to those guys. Just because you have seen him going crazy on the Cardinals 2 times a year since the realignment doesn't mean you have to be an unabashed hater.

Reverse Homerism- irrational hatred and disrespect of your most hated team's players

I never "bashed" Anquan Boldin, in fact I really like him. But you are out of your mind if you think he is better than Holt outright or that he will have a better statistical year. The Rams offense clearly did not start clicking until half way through the year and Holt still had 10 more catches, 15 less yards, and 10 TD's to Boldin's 4. On top of that, the Rams QB is a top 5 guy and the offense is totally solid for this upcoming season, the Cards QB is Leinart and their O-line is far from great, so the production angle doesn't add up either.

I don't have to even really try to shoot holes in your Moss love affair. Here's something for you, 42, 60, 49.......you know what those are, Moss's receptions the past three seasons. Moss was such an incredible WR because he was a freak of nature. He has never run great routes, is not a hard worker, hesitant in the middle of the field, has recently developed a dropping problem, and the worst thing of all for a guy that was great because he was a freak......he has lost a step.

As for Walker, yes I must truly be insane to think Holt is better and will be more productive. Let's take a look. Walker- 69 catches, 1084 yards, 8 TD's. Holt- 93 catches, 1188 yards, 10 TD's. Oh, and Holt has had more than 2 good seasons, in fact he has had 7 great ones, but I forgot he is a 31 year old fossil. Now that we can see that Holt is clearly better outright, lets look from a production standpoint. I'll just use your same argument against you, Walker has a largely unproven Cutler throwing to him.

Now for Driver, first off I never scoffed at him, or any of these WR's. In fact, they are all great WR's. But, the bottomline is that Holt has had six seasons better than Driver's best.

Just so everyone knows, I am not bashing these WR's. I would love for the Rams to have any of them besides maybe Moss because of the issues. They are all clearly among the best in the league, but Holt simply better.

Scotty D
06-26-2007, 02:22 PM
Roy Williams getting some love I like it.

HoopsDemon12
06-26-2007, 02:28 PM
fitz and holt are WAY TO LOW...

yo123
06-26-2007, 05:05 PM
PAY ATTENTION. It goes by what he thinks the guys will produce not how they're ranked according to talent.

Geez.

Roy-1310 yards

Holt-1188

Roy wins.


I know... so because Roy has more yarsd than him one year means hes going to next year? Holt had more TDs than him, you failed to mention that. I he had more catches than him too. Torry wins

Tobzilla
06-26-2007, 05:22 PM
Having Torry Holt that low is a crime.

Hines
06-26-2007, 05:23 PM
I personally think Santonio Holmes is going to outperform Hines Ward this year.


as do i but in all honestly hines is the better complete reciever but holmes is way more explosive.

but i dont think hines is the 23rd best reciever in the league. easily top 15. and at one time top 7

Moses
06-26-2007, 05:32 PM
I know... so because Roy has more yarsd than him one year means hes going to next year? Holt had more TDs than him, you failed to mention that. I he had more catches than him too. Torry wins

I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.

BigDawg819
06-26-2007, 05:37 PM
I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.

How about a compromise, both are solid receivers who produce and any team would be lucky to have them.

nfrillman
06-26-2007, 06:16 PM
I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.

What in the crap is up with people thinking that Holt is over the hill, past his prime, and going to start to tail off. He is 31 years old for christ's sake. Harrison is 34 and TO is 33 and nobody even mentions their ages when talking about them. I am starting to think that Holt is the most disrespected player in football. It's not that surprising seeing as Bulger is the most underrated QB in the league, Leonard Little is a perennial Probowl snub, and people seem to want to start to dig Bruce's grave because he is........OMG 34!!!!!! At the end of his career Holt could be argued as the best WR of all time. One would lose that argument because it is Rice, but one could think of Holt as the best ever and not be considered a total moron. Holt turned 31 on June 5th, 31 years old is during a WR's prime, and Holt is the kind of WR that will age gracefully like Harrison because he runs possibly the best routes in the league, has sure hands, and is a smart player. Holt is going to remain among the top 5 productive WR's for probably 5 years to come. People just get so anxious to annoint the next generation of superstars. You know why the current superstars are considered superstars, because they have proven they are.

PACKmanN
06-26-2007, 06:25 PM
Driver ahead of walker....LOL


when walker was on the packers he was their number one
for only one season.

Tobzilla
06-26-2007, 06:35 PM
I think a lot of us will agree that Driver is about 5 slots too high...not just the vikings and bears fans.

iloxygenil
06-26-2007, 06:35 PM
Blatant homerism? That's why several non-Rams fans have said Holt is far too low. That is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here, and there have been some doozies.

First off, I think the phrase you were looking for was "his last 7 years of production", or his entire career besides rookie year. So I am not sure why he wouldn't continue to put up the production that he has always done. Secondly, I'm not sure why his team has anything to do with him getting praise, unless its simply that St.Louis is not a media magnet. I am also not sure if you are familiar with the WR position, but the great ones play well into their 30's. Holt just turned 31 on June 5 and has 8 years experience. Harrison- 34 with 11 years experience, Driver- 32 with 8 years experience, TO- 33 with 11 years experience, Moss- 30 wiith 9 years experience. So yeah, obviously Holt is a fossil compared to those guys. Just because you have seen him going crazy on the Cardinals 2 times a year since the realignment doesn't mean you have to be an unabashed hater.

Reverse Homerism- irrational hatred and disrespect of your most hated team's players

I never "bashed" Anquan Boldin, in fact I really like him. But you are out of your mind if you think he is better than Holt outright or that he will have a better statistical year. The Rams offense clearly did not start clicking until half way through the year and Holt still had 10 more catches, 15 less yards, and 10 TD's to Boldin's 4. On top of that, the Rams QB is a top 5 guy and the offense is totally solid for this upcoming season, the Cards QB is Leinart and their O-line is far from great, so the production angle doesn't add up either.

I don't have to even really try to shoot holes in your Moss love affair. Here's something for you, 42, 60, 49.......you know what those are, Moss's receptions the past three seasons. Moss was such an incredible WR because he was a freak of nature. He has never run great routes, is not a hard worker, hesitant in the middle of the field, has recently developed a dropping problem, and the worst thing of all for a guy that was great because he was a freak......he has lost a step.

As for Walker, yes I must truly be insane to think Holt is better and will be more productive. Let's take a look. Walker- 69 catches, 1084 yards, 8 TD's. Holt- 93 catches, 1188 yards, 10 TD's. Oh, and Holt has had more than 2 good seasons, in fact he has had 7 great ones, but I forgot he is a 31 year old fossil. Now that we can see that Holt is clearly better outright, lets look from a production standpoint. I'll just use your same argument against you, Walker has a largely unproven Cutler throwing to him.

Now for Driver, first off I never scoffed at him, or any of these WR's. In fact, they are all great WR's. But, the bottomline is that Holt has had six seasons better than Driver's best.

Just so everyone knows, I am not bashing these WR's. I would love for the Rams to have any of them besides maybe Moss because of the issues. They are all clearly among the best in the league, but Holt simply better.

Moss really hasn't lost a step...did you not hear what he was running 40s in? I mean lets be real hear. You guys all hate on randy because he has a poor attitude, that's right, but who in the world better to fix that than his current coach? Randy is older now, and has something to prove again, he'll work hard and get balls thrown near him that he can go after. You call out Randy's reception numbers...why don't you go back and look at the offensive woes that the Raiders had...lets be real, that's foolish. Randy's talent is still immense and just because you think he's lost a step because he's running low 4.3 / high 4.2 40s (reportedly) completely discredits you.

To say Holt is better is your opinion, yeah he's had a lot of success, but these are projections...they happen EVERY year, it's all hogwash til the season is here, but the projections are just fine imo, because none of them are going to even be close to what they are, but all of his selections are arguable in their position.

As far as Boldin goes...he's the closest thing to Jerry Rice the NFL has seen since...Jerry Rice. He doesn't have great timed speed, but no one on the field is going to run him down, he's tough, and doesn't drop the ball, period. I'd take Boldin over Holt any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Your argument against Boldin is against the Cards...not Boldin himself...and that's fine, but it's weak to not realize it took Holt 10 more catches to gain LESS yards than Boldin and yeah, he had more TDs...so what...who else is really on his team? He's going to get 100% of the redzone looks that don't end up in Jackson's hands. Boldin has to share with Fitz...another wonderful WR.

reese
06-26-2007, 07:36 PM
What in the crap is up with people thinking that Holt is over the hill, past his prime, and going to start to tail off. He is 31 years old for christ's sake. Harrison is 34 and TO is 33 and nobody even mentions their ages when talking about them. I am starting to think that Holt is the most disrespected player in football. It's not that surprising seeing as Bulger is the most underrated QB in the league, Leonard Little is a perennial Probowl snub, and people seem to want to start to dig Bruce's grave because he is........OMG 34!!!!!! At the end of his career Holt could be argued as the best WR of all time. One would lose that argument because it is Rice, but one could think of Holt as the best ever and not be considered a total moron. Holt turned 31 on June 5th, 31 years old is during a WR's prime, and Holt is the kind of WR that will age gracefully like Harrison because he runs possibly the best routes in the league, has sure hands, and is a smart player. Holt is going to remain among the top 5 productive WR's for probably 5 years to come. People just get so anxious to annoint the next generation of superstars. You know why the current superstars are considered superstars, because they have proven they are.


i was with u till this one...holt will never get into a discussion as the best ever.

PACKmanN
06-26-2007, 09:23 PM
I think a lot of us will agree that Driver is about 5 slots too high...not just the vikings and bears fans.

he in the top 7 and also he doesn't make the crazy money that these guys do.

yo123
06-26-2007, 09:56 PM
he in the top 7 and also he doesn't make the crazy money that these guys do.




so because hes underpaid means hes better than the people ahead of him?

PACKmanN
06-26-2007, 10:02 PM
so because hes underpaid means hes better than the people ahead of him?

whats stops him from being top 7? just because he not known by alot of people, he not a first round pick. Face it he good but I didn't say he is better then anyone on that list. Firtz should be ahead but putting names like Walker ahead of him is bull.

yo123
06-26-2007, 10:08 PM
whats stops him from being top 7? just because he not known by alot of people, he not a first round pick. Face it he good but I didn't say he is better then anyone on that list. Firtz should be ahead but putting names like Walker ahead of him is bull.

you could definetly make an argument for putting Walker ahead of him. They had similar numbers last year other than receptions, and he had Jake freakin Plummer throwing to him.

I would put Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, and Terrell Owens ahead of him. that would make him 10th

Denver Bronco99
06-26-2007, 11:09 PM
for only one season.

ok...but walker when he was healthy eas a top10-top 5 WR he was a monster pre-leg break with the packers...and he has shown his form again, and with a QB that can actually throw the ball he will be better then he ever was and could have a 1300+ yard season

PACKmanN
06-26-2007, 11:45 PM
you could definetly make an argument for putting Walker ahead of him. They had similar numbers last year other than receptions, and he had Jake freakin Plummer throwing to him.

I would put Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, and Terrell Owens ahead of him. that would make him 10th

ok but Jennings was out for 4 games and we had no running game. Driver has been the main guy from the day Walker broke his leg and when we had a healthy Walker. Even though he covered by 2-3 people he still manges to put up 1000 yards a season. Walker had the benefit of playing with Rod Smith, soiled running game, and Williams. What more can you ask for. (even though i miss him.)


Where did you get that Driver had similar numbers to Walker?
Driver had 92 rec 1295 yards 8 TDs
Walker had 68 rec 1084 yards 8 TDs

yo123
06-26-2007, 11:55 PM
ok but Jennings was out for 4 games and we had no running game. Driver has been the main guy from the day Walker broke his leg and when we had a healthy Walker. Even though he covered by 2-3 people he still manges to put up 1000 yards a season. Walker had the benefit of playing with Rod Smith, soiled running game, and Williams. What more can you ask for. (even though i miss him.)


Where did you get that Driver had similar numbers to Walker?
Driver had 92 rec 1295 yards 8 TDs
Walker had 68 rec 1084 yards 8 TDs



first of all, Williams? who is that? Rod Smith is nothing to write home about anymore. And I said they were similar other than receptions, which they are. Equal touchdowns and a 200 yard difference which would have been erased if he had a better QB.

PACKmanN
06-26-2007, 11:57 PM
first of all, Williams? who is that? Rod Smith is nothing to write home about anymore. And I said they were similar other than receptions, which they are. Equal touchdowns and a 200 yard difference which would have been erased if he had a better QB.

my bad i mean Brandon Marshall. Rod Smith will still get defense's attention even at his age because they know he still a threat.

ncstateviking
06-27-2007, 12:16 AM
boldin isnt even the best WR on his own team. is he the father of your baby or something? hes good...not that great. and doesnt even deserve to be in the same post as torry holt.

yo123
06-27-2007, 12:26 AM
boldin isnt even the best WR on his own team. is he the father of your baby or something? hes good...not that great. and doesnt even deserve to be in the same post as torry holt.



Yeah, and if Jerry Rice and Cris Carter were on the same team Carter wouldnt be the best on his own team either. Boldin has caught 100 or more balls in 2 of his 4 seasons, and he might of caught 100 in 2004 too if he didnt get hurt. He puts up the same kind of numbers as Fitzgerald, yet for some reason he doesnt get 1/2 of the love as him.

SuperMcGee
06-27-2007, 12:43 AM
boldin isnt even the best WR on his own team. is he the father of your baby or something? hes good...not that great. and doesnt even deserve to be in the same post as torry holt.

Yes he does. Boldin does so many things well - getting to the ball, good hands, great after the catch and tough to bring down, a fine blocker. I love how he plays the game and I'm a large advocate of him. TD numbers can be lacking but based on how he plays and how well he does every year he's up in my top tier.

yo123
06-27-2007, 12:50 AM
Yes he does. Boldin does so many things well - getting to the ball, good hands, great after the catch and tough to bring down, a fine blocker. I love how he plays the game and I'm a large advocate of him. TD numbers can be lacking but based on how he plays and how well he does every year he's up in my top tier.


His TD numbers are lacking mostly because of how great a red zone target Fitz is

nfrillman
06-27-2007, 12:55 AM
As far as Boldin goes...he's the closest thing to Jerry Rice the NFL has seen since...Jerry Rice. He doesn't have great timed speed, but no one on the field is going to run him down, he's tough, and doesn't drop the ball, period. I'd take Boldin over Holt any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Your argument against Boldin is against the Cards...not Boldin himself...and that's fine, but it's weak to not realize it took Holt 10 more catches to gain LESS yards than Boldin and yeah, he had more TDs...so what...who else is really on his team? He's going to get 100% of the redzone looks that don't end up in Jackson's hands. Boldin has to share with Fitz...another wonderful WR.

I would personally like someone with the track record of Holt, the most consistent WR in football along with Harrison. As far as TD's go, in case you haven't noticed, the Rams had Bruce and Curtis last year as well. That makes three possible targets for Bulger to choose from.

Holt average season: 89 catches, 1334 yards, 8 TD's
Boldin average season: 85.5 catches, 1151 yards, 5 TD's

Holt average season if playing in all 16 games: 90.4 catches, 1356 yards, 8.1 TD's
Boldin average season if playing in all 16 games: 97.7 catches, 1316 yards, 5.7 TD's

With the evidence of the stats, please don't bring up the YPC from last year because Holt is 15.0 career and Boldin is 13.5 career.

I am not trying to get in an argument about this, I am just saying that Holt is one of the most disrespected players the NFL. Holt currently has 712 career catches, Andre Reed is 5th all time with 951. Holt will almost certainly pass him, and he has a good shot at catching Chris Carter for 2nd (which will be 3rd soon because of Harrison) all time with 1101 catches. If Holt averages 85 catches per season it will take a little over 4 and half seasons which is not far fetched. He has 10675 career yards while 2nd all time is Tim Brown with 14934 yards.

Any time these player rankings come up there is always going to be disagreement. I just prefer my choices to be guys with proven track records while others prefer to try to find the next big time players. Mostly, people need to stop bringing up Holt's age as a reason for him to drop off dramatically. He is 31 years old and great WR's age gracefully (Harrison and TO).

YAYareaRB
06-27-2007, 01:24 AM
I don't know about Holt being the most disrespected player in the NFL. Everyone knows about him and they have to respect his playing ability, no matter the age. As a 49er fan, I can honestly say that Holt is amongst my favorite receivers. The guy's a shoe in Hall of Famer.. His stats are amazing, even though most of it is due to Mike Martz wide open system. But hey, if he's catching the balls.. he's good!

dan77733
06-27-2007, 02:10 AM
WOW. What a crappy list.

My top 5 -

1. Terrell Owens

After having an awesome 2004 season, he missed nine games in 2005 due to the morons and idiots in Philly. The funny thing is that if you look at his stats from 2005, he was on pace to have 107 receptions, 1744 receiving yards and 14 td's. Owens had a great season in 2006 considering the fact that until Romo started, he was pretty much non-existent. The huge amount of drops was a negative but he obviously was injured as he had several surgeries this off-season. Owens is still the most dangerous receiver in the league after the catch.

2. Marvin Harrison

Harrison is a sure Hall of Famer and is quite simply, one of the best receivers over the last decade. Wayne becoming a threat has taken the pressure of Harrison which is a good thing but because of that, his stats have declined since as well. Arguably, could be number one.

3. Torry Holt

Big game has big games game in and game out but gets lost because the Rams are no longer the greatest show on turf. Bruce has declined and while Holt remains dominant, not having that "other" receiver on the other side has hurt him somewhat because defenses dont fear Bruce like they did a few seasons ago. Oh well, im a 49ers fan and hate the Rams (obviously) but Holt is simply awesome. Enough said.

4. Chad Johnson

He's only been in the league for six seasons and has put up some damn good, if not great numbers over that time. He's the league's second biggest threat after the catch and with T.J. becoming a threat, he should continue to put up great numbers for years to come especially with the running game and offensive line he has. And of course, having a top five QB doesnt hurt either.

5. Randy Moss

The main reason I have Moss listed fifth is because he was dominant until he went to OAK and with Collins and Brooks the last two seasons, it's safe to say that the above four wouldnt have done any better either. With arguably the best QB in the NFL now passing to him, I expect Moss to have a bounce back season in 2007 and show everyone that the last two seasons were just a dream (or in Randy's case, a nightmare).

My top five is just my opinion but favortism aside, I truly believe that the above five players are the top five receivers in the NFL today. Other's may have a different order but the players should remain the same.

Oh well, to each his own.

Sniper
06-27-2007, 02:22 AM
WOW. What a crappy list.

My top 5 -

1. Terrell Owens

After having an awesome 2004 season, he missed nine games in 2005 due to the morons and idiots in Philly. The funny thing is that if you look at his stats from 2005, he was on pace to have 107 receptions, 1744 receiving yards and 14 td's. Owens had a great season in 2006 considering the fact that until Romo started, he was pretty much non-existent. The huge amount of drops was a negative but he obviously was injured as he had several surgeries this off-season. Owens is still the most dangerous receiver in the league after the catch.



Maybe if he didn't act like a massive douchebag in Philly he would have played. Those morons and idiots you seem to love so much seem to have done the right thing considering they just won the division...AGAIN.

reese
06-27-2007, 02:24 AM
WOW. What a crappy list.

My top 5 -

1. Terrell Owens

After having an awesome 2004 season, he missed nine games in 2005 due to the morons and idiots in Philly. The funny thing is that if you look at his stats from 2005, he was on pace to have 107 receptions, 1744 receiving yards and 14 td's. Owens had a great season in 2006 considering the fact that until Romo started, he was pretty much non-existent. The huge amount of drops was a negative but he obviously was injured as he had several surgeries this off-season. Owens is still the most dangerous receiver in the league after the catch.

2. Marvin Harrison

Harrison is a sure Hall of Famer and is quite simply, one of the best receivers over the last decade. Wayne becoming a threat has taken the pressure of Harrison which is a good thing but because of that, his stats have declined since as well. Arguably, could be number one.

3. Torry Holt

Big game has big games game in and game out but gets lost because the Rams are no longer the greatest show on turf. Bruce has declined and while Holt remains dominant, not having that "other" receiver on the other side has hurt him somewhat because defenses dont fear Bruce like they did a few seasons ago. Oh well, im a 49ers fan and hate the Rams (obviously) but Holt is simply awesome. Enough said.

4. Chad Johnson

He's only been in the league for six seasons and has put up some damn good, if not great numbers over that time. He's the league's second biggest threat after the catch and with T.J. becoming a threat, he should continue to put up great numbers for years to come especially with the running game and offensive line he has. And of course, having a top five QB doesnt hurt either.

5. Randy Moss

The main reason I have Moss listed fifth is because he was dominant until he went to OAK and with Collins and Brooks the last two seasons, it's safe to say that the above four wouldnt have done any better either. With arguably the best QB in the NFL now passing to him, I expect Moss to have a bounce back season in 2007 and show everyone that the last two seasons were just a dream (or in Randy's case, a nightmare).

My top five is just my opinion but favortism aside, I truly believe that the above five players are the top five receivers in the NFL today. Other's may have a different order but the players should remain the same.

Oh well, to each his own.


no steve smith? care to explain how u left him off?

Dam8610
06-27-2007, 04:34 AM
no steve smith? care to explain how u left him off?

Better yet, how is Owens #1?

nfrillman
06-27-2007, 04:35 AM
no steve smith? care to explain how u left him off?

Everyone has gotten so used to all the "experts" putting Smith in the top 5 and usually number 1 on all these WR lists the last couple years that they just accept and expect it without question. My explanation for Smith not being in this guys top 5 is that Smith is not an obvious top 5 guy. He has had exactly one great season, one. Last year he had a good season: 83 catches, 1166 yards, and 8 TD's. Those stats put him at 10th in yards, tied for 14th in receptions, and tied for 10th in TD's. There were 5 guys that topped him in all those categories, Harrison, Wayne, Driver(tied TD's), Holt, and Owens. Lee Evans had 126 more yards, the same TD's, and one less catch. Chad Johnson had 203 more yards, one less TD, and 4 more catches. Roy Williams had 144 more yards, one less TD, and one less catch. The argument of having no one around him can't be used either since Keyshawn had a good season. I can't think of another player that was so quickly annointed the greatest at his position. It is ridiculous. I'm not sure where I would put Smith personally. He may be top 5 for me I just haven't thought about it, but people need to realize that he is not obviously the best WR, or even an obvious top 5 guy. Look at the stats. Do those look like the stats of unquestionably the top WR in the league, or even a no doubt top 5 guy???

YEAR TEAM .... G .... REC .... YDS ...... AVG
2001 CAR .... 15 .... 10 ....... 154 ...... 15.4
2002 CAR .... 15 .... 54 ....... 872 ...... 16.1
2003 CAR .... 16 .... 88 ....... 1110 .... 12.6
2004 CAR .... 1 ....... 6 ....... 60 ........ 10.0
2005 CAR .... 16 .... 103 ..... 1563 ..... 15.2
2006 CAR .... 14 .... 83 ....... 1166 ..... 14.0
Career ........ 77 .... 344 ..... 4925 ..... 14.3

remix 6
06-27-2007, 10:12 AM
i think many of u guys are missing the point

BASED ON 2007

this is how the guy who wrote the article THINKS THESE WRS WILL FARE THIS UPCOMING SEASON

DeathbyStat
06-27-2007, 10:31 AM
Hines is getting old and injuries are mounting but i'd still take him over all the rookies and 2nd to 3rd year players that are ahead of him on the list. Plus it hard for me to see Housmazadah that high on the list because he is a number 2 wide out. Who knows how well he would do if he didn't have the great Chad Johnson commanding double teams.

yo123
06-27-2007, 12:59 PM
Everyone has gotten so used to all the "experts" putting Smith in the top 5 and usually number 1 on all these WR lists the last couple years that they just accept and expect it without question. My explanation for Smith not being in this guys top 5 is that Smith is not an obvious top 5 guy. He has had exactly one great season, one. Last year he had a good season: 83 catches, 1166 yards, and 8 TD's. Those stats put him at 10th in yards, tied for 14th in receptions, and tied for 10th in TD's. There were 5 guys that topped him in all those categories, Harrison, Wayne, Driver(tied TD's), Holt, and Owens. Lee Evans had 126 more yards, the same TD's, and one less catch. Chad Johnson had 203 more yards, one less TD, and 4 more catches. Roy Williams had 144 more yards, one less TD, and one less catch. The argument of having no one around him can't be used either since Keyshawn had a good season. I can't think of another player that was so quickly annointed the greatest at his position. It is ridiculous. I'm not sure where I would put Smith personally. He may be top 5 for me I just haven't thought about it, but people need to realize that he is not obviously the best WR, or even an obvious top 5 guy. Look at the stats. Do those look like the stats of unquestionably the top WR in the league, or even a no doubt top 5 guy???

YEAR TEAM .... G .... REC .... YDS ...... AVG
2001 CAR .... 15 .... 10 ....... 154 ...... 15.4
2002 CAR .... 15 .... 54 ....... 872 ...... 16.1
2003 CAR .... 16 .... 88 ....... 1110 .... 12.6
2004 CAR .... 1 ....... 6 ....... 60 ........ 10.0
2005 CAR .... 16 .... 103 ..... 1563 ..... 15.2
2006 CAR .... 14 .... 83 ....... 1166 ..... 14.0
Career ........ 77 .... 344 ..... 4925 ..... 14.3


Those numbers look damn good to me other than his first 2 years when he was adjusting to the pro game and the year where he played one game. When hes healthy he is at the very least a top 5 receiver.

reese
06-27-2007, 01:04 PM
Everyone has gotten so used to all the "experts" putting Smith in the top 5 and usually number 1 on all these WR lists the last couple years that they just accept and expect it without question. My explanation for Smith not being in this guys top 5 is that Smith is not an obvious top 5 guy. He has had exactly one great season, one. Last year he had a good season: 83 catches, 1166 yards, and 8 TD's. Those stats put him at 10th in yards, tied for 14th in receptions, and tied for 10th in TD's. There were 5 guys that topped him in all those categories, Harrison, Wayne, Driver(tied TD's), Holt, and Owens. Lee Evans had 126 more yards, the same TD's, and one less catch. Chad Johnson had 203 more yards, one less TD, and 4 more catches. Roy Williams had 144 more yards, one less TD, and one less catch. The argument of having no one around him can't be used either since Keyshawn had a good season. I can't think of another player that was so quickly annointed the greatest at his position. It is ridiculous. I'm not sure where I would put Smith personally. He may be top 5 for me I just haven't thought about it, but people need to realize that he is not obviously the best WR, or even an obvious top 5 guy. Look at the stats. Do those look like the stats of unquestionably the top WR in the league, or even a no doubt top 5 guy???

YEAR TEAM .... G .... REC .... YDS ...... AVG
2001 CAR .... 15 .... 10 ....... 154 ...... 15.4
2002 CAR .... 15 .... 54 ....... 872 ...... 16.1
2003 CAR .... 16 .... 88 ....... 1110 .... 12.6
2004 CAR .... 1 ....... 6 ....... 60 ........ 10.0
2005 CAR .... 16 .... 103 ..... 1563 ..... 15.2
2006 CAR .... 14 .... 83 ....... 1166 ..... 14.0
Career ........ 77 .... 344 ..... 4925 ..... 14.3


he only played 14 games....so u cant compare his stats with guys that played 16. if anything it shows that he did almost as good or better but in less games. i dont think he is the best wr but he is without a doubt top 5. he has no weakness really...thats y ppl say he is the best..he can go deep...he can go up and get the ball...he runs good routes..he is great after the catch...he goes across the middle and catches screens..theres nuthin he doesnt do...u cant name 5 wrs that can say the same...

Acreboy
06-27-2007, 01:10 PM
i think many of u guys are missing the point

BASED ON 2007

this is how the guy who wrote the article THINKS THESE WRS WILL FARE THIS UPCOMING SEASONNot worth your time. People won't pay attention much less listen. Let them argue over who is better even though thats not the case at all.

BaLLiN
06-27-2007, 01:34 PM
why is lee Evans at 13? and no Braylon Edwards or Joe Horn?

SuperMcGee
06-27-2007, 01:53 PM
why is lee Evans at 13? and no Braylon Edwards or Joe Horn?

Evans is about where he should be, although you could definitely put Fitz ahead of him if you wanted to. Evans was near the top of several statistical categories last year and there should be no real reason he won't do the same this year.

remix 6
06-27-2007, 02:02 PM
why is lee Evans at 13? and no Braylon Edwards or Joe Horn?

READ

HOW THE GUY THINKS THE PLAYERS WILL DO NEXT SEASON

SO HE THINKS NEXT SEASON BASED ON STATS, EVANS WILL BE THE 13TH WITH THE OTHER GUYS HAVING BETTER STATS THIS UPCOMING SEASON


wow i love message boards. im done

fenikz
06-27-2007, 02:04 PM
that is a terrible list, i dont think i have to explain why

Acreboy
06-27-2007, 02:06 PM
READ

HOW THE GUY THINKS THE PLAYERS WILL DO NEXT SEASON

SO HE THINKS NEXT SEASON BASED ON STATS, EVANS WILL BE THE 13TH WITH THE OTHER GUYS HAVING BETTER STATS THIS UPCOMING SEASON


wow i love message boards. im done
LMAO don't bust a blood vessel man.

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Moss is crap.i hope he tears something.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
06-27-2007, 03:35 PM
why is lee Evans at 13? and no Braylon Edwards or Joe Horn?

Do u think Evans should be lower?? i sure don't. thats a solid spot for him, right around where he should be, if not a little higher.

Braylon Edwards should be solid this year, hopefully its a breakout season.

I don't see Joe Horn doing anything worth of this high a ranking, and i'm sure most would agree with that

Shiver
06-27-2007, 03:53 PM
If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.

Hines
06-27-2007, 04:18 PM
If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.


agreed and i think hines should be higher too and at least santonio to be on the list as well

but thats the homer in me

reese
06-27-2007, 04:19 PM
agreed and i think hines should be higher too and at least santonio to be on the list as well

but thats the homer in me

i dont think big ben is good enuf to have 2 guys in the top 25 stat wise...

nfrillman
06-27-2007, 04:38 PM
Those numbers look damn good to me other than his first 2 years when he was adjusting to the pro game and the year where he played one game. When hes healthy he is at the very least a top 5 receiver.

So you are basically looking at three seasons. Two good ones and one great one. Look at the stats of these guys over that same time span. They are better or at least rival Smith's.

CJ
YEAR TEAM ......G .......REC .....YDS .......AVG ......TD
2001 CIN .........12 .......28 ......329 .......11.8 .......1
2002 CIN .........16 .......69 .....1166 ......16.9 .......5
2003 CIN .........16....... 90 .....1355 ......15.1...... 10
2004 CIN .........16....... 95 .....1274...... 13.4 .......9
2005 CIN .........16 .......97 ....1432 .......14.8 .......9
2006 CIN .........16 .......87 ....1369 .......15.7 .......7
Career ............92 ......466.... 6925 .......14.9 ......41

Harrison
YEAR TEAM ......G .......REC ....YDS ........AVG ......TD
2001 IND .........16 .....109 ....1524 ........14.0 ......15
2002 IND .........16 .....143 ....1722 ........12.0 ......11
2003 IND .........15 ......94..... 1272 .......13.5 .......10
2004 IND .........16 ......86 .....1113....... 12.9 .......15
2005 IND .........15 ......82 .....1146 .......14.0 .......12
2006 IND .........16 ......95 .....1366 .......14.4....... 12
Career ...........170 ...1022 ....13697 ......13.4 ......122

Wayne
YEAR TEAM ......G ....REC ......YDS ........AVG .......TD
2001 IND........ 13 ....27 ........345 .........12.8....... 0
2002 IND ........16 ....49 ........716 .........14.6....... 4
2003 IND ........16 ....68 ........838 .........12.3 .......7
2004 IND ........16 ....77........ 1210 .......15.7 ......12
2005 IND ........16.... 83 ........1055 .......12.7 .......5
2006 IND........ 16 ....86........ 1310 .......15.2....... 9
Career ...........93 ....390 .......5474 .......14.0 ......37

Holt
YEAR TEAM .....G .....REC .......YDS .......AVG ......TD
2001 STL .......16 . ...81 .......1363 .......16.8....... 7
2002 STL .......16 ....91 ........1302 .......14.3 .......4
2003 STL ......16..... 117 ......1696 .......14.5 ......12
2004 STL ......16 .....94 ........1372 .......14.6 ......10
2005 STL ......14..... 102 .......1331 ......13.0....... 9
2006 STL ......16 .....93 ........1188 ......12.8 .......10
Career. ........ 126... 712 .....10675 ......15.0....... 64

Owens
YEAR TEAM ....G .....REC .......YDS .......AVG .......TD
2001 SFO......16..... 93 ........1412 ......15.2 ....... 16
2002 SF........14 ....100 .......1300 .......13.0 ...... 13
2003 SF ........15 ....80 ........1102...... 13.8 ....... 9
2004 PHI .......14 ....77 ........1200 ......15.6 ....... 14
2005 PHI .......7 .....47......... 763 .......16.2 .......6
2006 DAL...... 16.....85... .....1180 ......13.9 ........13
Career .........158... 801 .......11715.....14.6........ 114

Now Smith's
YEAR TEAM .... G .... REC .... YDS ...... AVG.........TD
2001 CAR .... 15 .... 10 ....... 154 ...... 15.4 ........0
2002 CAR .... 15 .... 54 ....... 872 ...... 16.1 ........3
2003 CAR .... 16 .... 88 ....... 1110 .... 12.6 .........7
2004 CAR .... 1 ....... 6 ....... 60 ........ 10.0 ........0
2005 CAR .... 16 .... 103 ..... 1563 ..... 15.2 ........12
2006 CAR .... 14 .... 83 ....... 1166 ..... 14.0 ........8
Career ........ 77 .... 344 ..... 4925 ..... 14.3.........30

Just compare the stats people. Smith is an excellent WR, but he is not the definite number one WR in the league. I would personally put him in the top 5 with Holt, Harrison, CJ, and hmmm the last spot is open for debate in my mind. I just wish people would do some research to support what they say instead of just spouting off the same recycled material they read on some sports site or saw on ESPN.

Shiver
06-27-2007, 04:44 PM
When healthy, the past two years, Steve has been the most dangerous WR in the NFL. You cannot simply use stats as the sole measure in which to quantify players in the NFL.

nfrillman
06-27-2007, 04:50 PM
When healthy, the past two years, Steve has been the most dangerous WR in the NFL. You cannot simply use stats as the sole measure in which to quantify players in the NFL.

Yes stats cannot be the sole indicator, but six seasons is a fairly large sampling. It would be different to make rankings solely based on last season or something. In the words of Homer Simpson, "OHH!!!!! SO NOW WE'RE JUDGING EACH OTHER ON THINGS WE'VE DONE!!!!!! GREAT!!! REAL FAIR!!!! CLASS ACT!!!!"..............which is how a lot of people on these boards act.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
06-27-2007, 05:12 PM
If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.

agreed.

Ward and Holmes shouldn't be higher IMO.


nfrillman, what are u arguing and with whom. I'm sure most agree with u that Holt is a top tier WR, and i'd be shocked if people argued that. i'd also say that Smith is a top tier WR, and i'd doubt people would argue that. Who is better may depend on who there playing that week and if they have injuries. both guys need to be accounted for, although for different reasons because of their different abilities. one flaw i see on Smith is that he tends to get nicked up a little more than Holt does

Shiver
06-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Yes stats cannot be the sole indicator, but six seasons is a fairly large sampling. It would be different to make rankings solely based on last season or something. In the words of Homer Simpson, "OHH!!!!! SO NOW WE'RE JUDGING EACH OTHER ON THINGS WE'VE DONE!!!!!! GREAT!!! REAL FAIR!!!! CLASS ACT!!!!"..............which is how a lot of people on these boards act.

I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.

Denver Bronco99
06-27-2007, 05:26 PM
I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.

its arguable...but i dont think its smith its def. between Harrison, Holt, Johnson, Owens

reese
06-27-2007, 05:35 PM
also aside from owens...all those players have much better qbs then smith and the colts/rams have pass 1st offenses so of course there numbers will be better

P-L
06-27-2007, 06:08 PM
I find it odd that with the way this board was hyping up Calvin Johnson before the draft, that you people are suddenly upset that someone thinks he will be the 20th most productive WR in the NFL next year. You guys do remember that this is the same guy that you hyped up as the second coming of Christ. I believe some people on here gave him the nickname "CJesus."

Ok, so the WR with the 20th most catches in the NFL last year had 70. The WR with the 20th most yards last year had 988. The WR with the 20th most TD had 6 TD. A line of: 70 rec, 988 yds, and 6 TD doesn't seem like it is too ridiculous for a guy of his talent playing in a Mike Martz style offense. You know, the same offense that freakin' Mike Furrey had about 100 rec, 1100 yds, and 6 TD in.

Now I can't say for sure if the two or three people who ridiculed the author for placing Calvin at #20 were guys who hyped him up or not. But even regardless if they were or not, those numbers that I posted don't seem that ridiculous for Calvin to get. Regardless of what his completion percentage is or how many INT he throws, you can expect probably 4000 yards and 20-25 TD from Jon Kitna in the Mike Martz offense. With Calvin being the #2 WR for the Lions, you have to expect that he gets a decent sized chunk of that.

Moses
06-27-2007, 06:27 PM
I find it odd that with the way this board was hyping up Calvin Johnson before the draft, that you people are suddenly upset that someone thinks he will be the 20th most productive WR in the NFL next year. You guys do remember that this is the same guy that you hyped up as the second coming of Christ. I believe some people on here gave him the nickname "CJesus."

Ok, so the WR with the 20th most catches in the NFL last year had 70. The WR with the 20th most yards last year had 988. The WR with the 20th most TD had 6 TD. A line of: 70 rec, 988 yds, and 6 TD doesn't seem like it is too ridiculous for a guy of his talent playing in a Mike Martz style offense. You know, the same offense that freakin' Mike Furrey had about 100 rec, 1100 yds, and 6 TD in.

Now I can't say for sure if the two or three people who ridiculed the author for placing Calvin at #20 were guys who hyped him up or not. But even regardless if they were or not, those numbers that I posted don't seem that ridiculous for Calvin to get. Regardless of what his completion percentage is or how many INT he throws, you can expect probably 4000 yards and 20-25 TD from Jon Kitna in the Mike Martz offense. With Calvin being the #2 WR for the Lions, you have to expect that he gets a decent sized chunk of that.

I was one of the people who said Johnson being on this list is ridiculous. I thought Johnson was a great prospect (one of the best WR prospects of all-time) but I don't think he's going to be all-that the second he steps on the field. Putting him ahead of guys who are proven stars to me is just stupid. That's not to say he won't be good next year, but I would not put him on a top 25 list of WRs at this point.

nfrillman
06-27-2007, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.


its arguable...but i dont think its smith its def. between Harrison, Holt, Johnson, Owens

Thank you Bronco56. That is all I am trying to say. The "experts" seem to annoint Smith as the best WR in the NFL, the public never questions it, and then they put him at the tops of their lists because they were told to do so. The stats do not back up that Smith is clearly the best WR. It is debatable between Smith, Harrison, Holt, Johnson, and Owens. Just as I previously stated.

Shiver, statistically the past two years do not back up the statement that Smith is OBVIOUSLY the best WR. The past two seasons argument is pretty weak too, because by that logic Smith has virtually zero chance of being the best WR in the NFL this time next year because his 1500 yard, 100 catch, 12 TD season will be replaced by his 83 catch, 1166 yard, 8 TD performance last year. Meaning that he will have to have any enormous year to make up for being outperformed by others last year. He is certainly in the discussion for best WR, but it's not clear cut.

P-L
06-27-2007, 06:54 PM
I was one of the people who said Johnson being on this list is ridiculous. I thought Johnson was a great prospect (one of the best WR prospects of all-time) but I don't think he's going to be all-that the second he steps on the field. Putting him ahead of guys who are proven stars to me is just stupid. That's not to say he won't be good next year, but I would not put him on a top 25 list of WRs at this point.

You do realize that the author specified that his list was based on how he thought they would do this coming season? If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But I personally don't think him putting up those numbers is that "ridiculous" and I'm not half as high on him as everyone else is. Looking at the numbers that guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and more recently Mike Furrey put up in Martz's offense makes me believe that Johnson can achieve the kind of numbers I posted.

EdReedUnstoppable
06-27-2007, 07:45 PM
To anyone saying Clayton should not be on the list remember this, Clayton is catching passes from Steve McNair who can't throw the ball longer than 15 yards. Clayton with Kyle at QB or any QB who could throw downfield would have had much bigger numbers last year.

jjmt2500
06-27-2007, 07:45 PM
How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson??? It could be a toss up between Andre Johnson and Roy Williams but TO should not be in the top ten... And Randy Moss before Reggie Wayne, what is that???? How many of ya'll would rather have Randy Moss over Reggie Wayne???

remix 6
06-27-2007, 07:52 PM
How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson??? It could be a toss up between Andre Johnson and Roy Williams but TO should not be in the top ten... And Randy Moss before Reggie Wayne, what is that???? How many of ya'll would rather have Randy Moss over Reggie Wayne???

last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u will

Acreboy
06-27-2007, 07:58 PM
How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson???


last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u willThat is how.

remix 6
06-27-2007, 08:04 PM
That is how.

haha man im ready to blow up.

WHOOOOOSAH

breathe IN. breathe OUT. slowwwwww

PACKmanN
06-27-2007, 08:27 PM
haha man im ready to blow up.

WHOOOOOSAH

breathe IN. breathe OUT. slowwwwww

this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.

Moses
06-27-2007, 08:29 PM
You do realize that the author specified that his list was based on how he thought they would do this coming season? If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But I personally don't think him putting up those numbers is that "ridiculous" and I'm not half as high on him as everyone else is. Looking at the numbers that guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and more recently Mike Furrey put up in Martz's offense makes me believe that Johnson can achieve the kind of numbers I posted.

I would never put stock into a rookie being the 20th best receiver in the league. To me, that's just a bad prediction because rookie receivers generally have a tough time.

SuperMcGee
06-27-2007, 08:35 PM
this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.

No reason to get upset by it. Craig Nall is by far the superior QB.

yo123
06-27-2007, 08:58 PM
last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u will



YES! We are aware. I dont get your point. We cant disagree with his expectations?

JT Jag
06-27-2007, 09:08 PM
this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.Brett who?

49ersfan_87
06-27-2007, 09:17 PM
If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.

Lee Evans is one of my favorite current players and i think he is going to do great this year. Last year he really broke out and i think he is going to get better and become a truly elite receiver in the NFL.

remix 6
06-27-2007, 09:31 PM
YES! We are aware. I dont get your point. We cant disagree with his expectations?

no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunity

Acreboy
06-27-2007, 11:22 PM
no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunitySTOP. Save yourself the high BP.

MasterShake
06-28-2007, 01:40 AM
no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunity

A very easy and simple to understand example from last year:

Jericho Cotchery, WR, NY Jets

Addict
06-28-2007, 02:00 AM
I would never put stock into a rookie being the 20th best receiver in the league. To me, that's just a bad prediction because rookie receivers generally have a tough time.

yes, but as PL (see below) said, it's the top 20 WRs stat-wise. I understand your point, and I don't really disagree with it, although I think that the whole top 20 story WILL be true soon. But you're right in saying we just don't know yet. Since we've seen the awesome succes of the Lions drafting recievers *cough*BMW*cough*C-Rog*cough* we can't be sure.

But stat-wise, any player who plays in a pass-first offense that makes an average QB throw for over 4000, regardless of experience, will produce, so I don't really think the prediction is as off-base as you say it is.

You do realize that the author specified that his list was based on how he thought they would do this coming season? If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But I personally don't think him putting up those numbers is that "ridiculous" and I'm not half as high on him as everyone else is. Looking at the numbers that guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and more recently Mike Furrey put up in Martz's offense makes me believe that Johnson can achieve the kind of numbers I posted.

QFT, finally someone who reads.

A very easy and simple to understand example from last year:

Jericho Cotchery, WR, NY Jets

and the opposite:

Andre Johnson, WR, Texans

(whose stats are pushed down because... well... he plays in houston)

yo123
06-28-2007, 01:12 PM
no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunity



Stats are not the only way to judge what a player is going to do next year, but they are one of the main criteria. If a player performs year in and year out then odds are he will do the same thing next year. However thats not ALWAYS the case with free agents, trades, etc

neko4
06-28-2007, 01:36 PM
gMy only complaint is holt's position and i think roy is 2-3 spots too high

HoopsDemon12
06-28-2007, 02:27 PM
yes, but as PL (see below) said, it's the top 20 WRs stat-wise. I understand your point, and I don't really disagree with it, although I think that the whole top 20 story WILL be true soon. But you're right in saying we just don't know yet. Since we've seen the awesome succes of the Lions drafting recievers *cough*BMW*cough*C-Rog*cough* we can't be sure.

But stat-wise, any player who plays in a pass-first offense that makes an average QB throw for over 4000, regardless of experience, will produce, so I don't really think the prediction is as off-base as you say it is.



QFT, finally someone who reads.



and the opposite:

Andre Johnson, WR, Texans

(whose stats are pushed down because... well... he plays in houston)

i know thats like a handicap... come on he is a great reciever

ShutDwn
06-28-2007, 06:07 PM
its arguable...but i dont think its smith its def. between Harrison, Holt, Johnson, Owens

What can any of those guys do that Smith can't? All of those players rely on an offensive system to make them great and put them in positions to succeed. Smith never had that, he made them himself. None of those players could do what Smith did two years ago.

reese
06-28-2007, 06:28 PM
What can any of those guys do that Smith can't? All of those players rely on an offensive system to make them great and put them in positions to succeed. Smith never had that, he made them himself. None of those players could do what Smith did two years ago.

i see what ur sayin but and while holt and harrison do play in systems that put them situations to put up great numbers...chad johnson is 1 player like smith that i think could be on any team and still put up the numbers that he does...same goes for owens...he lead the league in tds last year with romo/bledsoe so come on now

marks01234
06-28-2007, 07:43 PM
A very easy and simple to understand example from last year:

Jericho Cotchery, WR, NY Jets

Are suggesting Cotchery was of great benefit from great QB play of Chad Pennington and all of the double teams Coles demands? Cotchery is a very good WR - probably a top 5 #2. I think he'll be a solid #1 in a few years too. Possession WRs like Cotchery are pretty rare.

dan77733
06-29-2007, 01:37 AM
Maybe if he didn't act like a massive douchebag in Philly he would have played. Those morons and idiots you seem to love so much seem to have done the right thing considering they just won the division...AGAIN.

Oh please. McNabb is as much to blame as TO. Look at McNabb now, he went nuts when Philly drafted a QB with their first pick in the second round. So much so, that he demanded a meeting with HC Andy Reid and others. WTF is McNabb to demand anything? Reid and others arent supposed to answer to McNabb, McNabb is supposed to answer to Reid and others. Everyone blamed TO which is such crap. Maybe if McNabb earned his $100m plus contract and didnt choke in the SB, they would still be together. I'm sorry but if I had a broken fibula and worked my ass off in order to play in my first ever SB, I would have been pissed off too if my $100m QB choked and couldnt suck it up for four hours.

Owens put on an MVP performance in the SB and if wasnt for McNabb choking and crappy playcalling and clock management by Reid, the Eagles would have won and Owens would have been the MVP.

As for last season, the Eagles had a better record with Garcia then they did with McNabb. How sad is that? It had nothing to do with Owens. Owens put up great numbers considering the fact that he was non-existent until Romo became the starter and considering the fact that Romo wasnt expected to do anything, I think that Owens (and Glenn) did damn good all things considered.

Back to Philly, they won the division because of Garcia. If it wasnt for Garcia knowing how to run the WCO from his days in SF, the Eagles wouldnt have even made it to the playoffs, let alone win the division. By the way, the NFC East is overrated. Dallas always turns out average at best while the Giants underachieve every season and the Redskins, well, they suck no matter who Snyder buys.

Sniper
06-29-2007, 01:45 AM
Oh please. McNabb is as much to blame as TO. Look at McNabb now, he went nuts when Philly drafted a QB with their first pick in the second round. So much so, that he demanded a meeting with HC Andy Reid and others. WTF is McNabb to demand anything? Reid and others arent supposed to answer to McNabb, McNabb is supposed to answer to Reid and others. Everyone blamed TO which is such crap. Maybe if McNabb earned his $100m plus contract and didnt choke in the SB, they would still be together. I'm sorry but if I had a broken fibula and worked my ass off in order to play in my first ever SB, I would have been pissed off too if my $100m QB choked and couldnt suck it up for four hours.

Owens put on an MVP performance in the SB and if wasnt for McNabb choking and crappy playcalling and clock management by Reid, the Eagles would have won and Owens would have been the MVP.

As for last season, the Eagles had a better record with Garcia then they did with McNabb. How sad is that? It had nothing to do with Owens. Owens put up great numbers considering the fact that he was non-existent until Romo became the starter and considering the fact that Romo wasnt expected to do anything, I think that Owens (and Glenn) did damn good all things considered.

Back to Philly, they won the division because of Garcia. If it wasnt for Garcia knowing how to run the WCO from his days in SF, the Eagles wouldnt have even made it to the playoffs, let alone win the division. By the way, the NFC East is overrated. Dallas always turns out average at best while the Giants underachieve every season and the Redskins, well, they suck no matter who Snyder buys.

Yeahhhhhhhhhh Garcia won them the division. Not a commitment to Brian Westbrook getting the ball 20-25 times per game or a VASTLY improved defense, no way man, all Garcia. That may have been one of the dumbest statements I believe I have ever seen. While the top part of your argument may be right on, any value it may have carried is cancelled by that dumbass statement. So did A.J Feeley win the division in 02 when he went 4-1? Come on. Garcia couldn't do **** in Detroit and Cleveland, not exactly hotbeds for winning, and all of a sudden he puts together a nice streak and it's all him? Come on bud, use some common sense. The Eagles had a better record w/ Garcia last year because when McNabb played, teams knew they could play the pass every play because Westbrook never got the ball. The Eagles D in the first half of the year was ****, and improved vastly in the second half.

By the way, does all that stuff that happened means T.O had to make moronic statements like "we'd be 8-0 with Favre" considering Favre had an amazing 29 INT that year? He could have not acted like a complete tool and things would have worked out. But no, it always has to be about Owens so his feelings don't get hurt.

dan77733
06-29-2007, 01:48 AM
no steve smith? care to explain how u left him off?

Who??? Why would I put a rookie on the list??? LOL.

Seriously though, Smith is good but he's NOT a top five receiver in my opinion. Top 10 probably, but not top 5. He's had one great season and two good ones in six years. Come on. Yeah, he was injured in 2004 but who knows, he could have sucked that season. Sure, I would love to have him on my 49ers but looking at my top five, Smith isnt even in the same league as them career wise.

Moss would have better career stats if he wasnt stuck in Oakland the last two seasons, which is why I have him rated 5th. Despite the past two seasons, Moss still has great career stats and let's be honest and realistic here, if you were to switch Moss with any one of the four receivers ahead of him (or Smith for that matter), I wouldnt be posting this paragraph.

Dam8610
06-29-2007, 01:59 AM
None of those players could do what Smith did two years ago.

109 receptions 1524 yards 15 TDs
143 receptions 1722 yards 11 TDs

vs.

103 receptions 1563 yards 12 TDs

Looks like Marvin did as well or better two years in a row.

Hines
06-29-2007, 02:00 AM
hines ward is the best so u guys just stop arguing

hahaha totally joking
and sarcasim
haha

dan77733
06-29-2007, 02:22 AM
Yeahhhhhhhhhh Garcia won them the division. Not a commitment to Brian Westbrook getting the ball 20-25 times per game or a VASTLY improved defense, no way man, all Garcia. That may have been one of the dumbest statements I believe I have ever seen. While the top part of your argument may be right on, any value it may have carried is cancelled by that dumbass statement. So did A.J Feeley win the division in 02 when he went 4-1? Come on. Garcia couldn't do **** in Detroit and Cleveland, not exactly hotbeds for winning, and all of a sudden he puts together a nice streak and it's all him? Come on bud, use some common sense. The Eagles had a better record w/ Garcia last year because when McNabb played, teams knew they could play the pass every play because Westbrook never got the ball. The Eagles D in the first half of the year was ****, and improved vastly in the second half.

By the way, does all that stuff that happened means T.O had to make moronic statements like "we'd be 8-0 with Favre" considering Favre had an amazing 29 INT that year? He could have not acted like a complete tool and things would have worked out. But no, it always has to be about Owens so his feelings don't get hurt.

Garcia's ability and knowledge of the WCO is what led them to winning the division. He wasnt great but he played smart and didnt make any mistakes. He knew what it took to win and he did. When McNabb went down, I had Philly as a 6-10 team at best and instead, they went the opposite way. The only reason why Bestbrook had a career year was because of Garcia. Think about it - if McNabb didnt get injured, Westbrook wouldnt even be in this conversation because of Reid's love with the passing attack.

Reid gave Mohrigwig(I know I spelled his name wrong but whatever) control over the offense and he was smart in what he did with Garcia and the rest of the offense. He basically copied what he did in SF back in 2002. He knew that in order for Garcia to win them games that he needed to run the ball more and that's exactly what he did.

Ask yourself this question - would Westbrook have had the career year he had rushing the ball if McNabb never got injured? The answer there is no. But the true reason as to why he had a career year was because of who the QB was. Garcia's a good QB who has to have the offense played to his strengths. Mohrigwig did with Garcia what the Falcons have failed to do with Vick. That's take advantage of his strengths while hiding his weaknesses.

Plus, Garcia came off the bench and after two crappy years in CLE and DET, played damn good for a team that pretty much had given up after McNabb went down. Bottom line is that Garcia revitaized the team and led them to the playoffs. Did he have help - yes but if it wasnt for him being the QB, the help never would have existed.

As for the defense, I dont know how much they improved over 2005 but I know that they werent half as good in 2006 as they were in 2004, especially after Trotter took over at MLB after the Steelers loss.

Owens wanted more money and while he did sign a contract and while the Eagles management didint have to pay him, they left the door open for a possible problem by not putting him on IR. They allowed him to be at the games and participate in the SB risking his career in order to win a SB for himself and the team. Personally, I would have given TO his bonus money that he would have received before Philly released him for a few reasons. It shuts him up. It gets him on field without complaining and keeps him and McNabb together.

Philly never had any intentions on keeping Owens for more than two seasons whether or not he was an asshole. The roster bonus confirmed that. Think about it - with the cap room that Philly had for 2005, why not pay him a six month advance? Also, having DE Hugh Douglas go into the locker room and confront TO was bullcrap because it was all setup to suspend Owens. The sad part is that if Owens wasnt suspended, I still think that he would have done good with McMahon and here's why - when Garcia went down in 2003, Rattay came in and Owens still did damn good. I think that the same thing would have happened. Sadly though, Owens was never given a chance to play with McMahon. Another reason why I think they suspended TO was because they knew that McNabb was going on IR and didnt want to take the chance of TO lighting it up with McMahon and causing a QB problem like he did with Garcia and Rattay in 2003.

McNabb is a jackass too. Him being pissed off about the Eagles drafting his possible replacement is evidence as that. Personally, all these guys have huge egos and while some may look good compared to others at the time, almost all become the same eventually. Just imagine what happens if McNabb gets injured again and Kolb leads them to a good record and a playoff berth or divison title. McNabb will be in the same situation as Owens was. The only difference is that McNabb has a $100m contract and Owens didnt.

Back to 2004, it's amazing how both McNabb and Culpepper had career years with Owens and Moss despite none of them getting along. Since then, McNabb and Culpepper have been injury prone and are average at best while Moss sucked in OAK due to a non existent QB and OL. The only one of the four to do good has been Owens which I find funny considering that until Romo started, he was invisible and even moreso than that, no one in hell expected Romo to do a damn thing, let alone lead the Cowboys to the playoffs.

Sniper
06-29-2007, 02:28 AM
109 receptions 1524 yards 15 TDs
143 receptions 1722 yards 11 TDs

vs.

103 receptions 1563 yards 12 TDs

Looks like Marvin did as well or better two years in a row.

Yeah man it's a good thing he didn't have a better QB throwing to him or anything :rolleyes: and good thing Marvin didn't have a Pro Bowl WR on the other side taking away double teams :rolleyes:

dan77733
06-29-2007, 02:47 AM
Better yet, how is Owens #1?

Here's my reasons why -

1) After being suspended for the second half of 2005 and with all the crap that went on between then and the 2006 season, everyone said that he was done and wouldnt do anything with Bledsoe.

2) While the majority were right by saying that he wouldnt do anything with Bledsoe, he exploded once Romo started. No one (including me) expected a damn thing from Romo but he played very well and knew that Owens was the playmaker while Glenn was the deep threat.

3) After all the problems since the Super Bowl, Owens had a great year in 2006 and led the league in TD's. What makes this even more impressive and yes I know that I sound like a broken record, he did this after Romo became the starter. Basically, for six games with Bledsoe as the starter, Owens was invisible and non-existent. Just imagine if Romo had started the entire season and played good throughout.

4) Another reason is who his QB was. Basically an unknown. Compare that to other four receivers in my top five. Harrison has Manning who's arguable the best QB in the NFL. Holt has Bulger who while not great is probably a top 10 QB if healthy. Johnson has Palmer who's arguably the third best QB in the NFL after Manning and Brady (or Brady and Manning). The lone exception is Moss who had Brooks and whoever else was there. Moss though was injured and didnt care where as Owens was excited to play with Romo because he knew that Romo would get him the ball as much as Bledsoe did with Glenn. Some will question why I have Moss fifth but trust me, after 2007 with Brady, you'll see why.

5) Played injured the last month or so. Yeah, he dropped a good amount of passes (by the way, if people dont like to use stats as a comparison, then they cant use drops either because its part of stats) but despite that, still had a comeback season and reestablished himself as a dominant receiver. Forget his attitude and loud mouth. Few players (especially receivers) are actually quiet. Every player has a huge ego and want things to go their way. The best way to keep Owens happy is to win. Think about it - he only truly gets pissed off and starts mouthing off when the team loses. See Super Bowl with Philly. See Steelers loss in 2004. See losses in SF. See bad start in 2005 with Philly. Etc.

That's why I have Owens rated number one. I know people will argue and that's fine. After all, to each his own.

reese
06-29-2007, 02:50 AM
109 receptions 1524 yards 15 TDs
143 receptions 1722 yards 11 TDs

vs.

103 receptions 1563 yards 12 TDs

Looks like Marvin did as well or better two years in a row.

i think he meant that no other wr could have done what smith did in the situation that smith was in

reese
06-29-2007, 02:51 AM
Who??? Why would I put a rookie on the list??? LOL.

Seriously though, Smith is good but he's NOT a top five receiver in my opinion. Top 10 probably, but not top 5. He's had one great season and two good ones in six years. Come on. Yeah, he was injured in 2004 but who knows, he could have sucked that season. Sure, I would love to have him on my 49ers but looking at my top five, Smith isnt even in the same league as them career wise.

Moss would have better career stats if he wasnt stuck in Oakland the last two seasons, which is why I have him rated 5th. Despite the past two seasons, Moss still has great career stats and let's be honest and realistic here, if you were to switch Moss with any one of the four receivers ahead of him (or Smith for that matter), I wouldnt be posting this paragraph.

whay does career stats have to do with right now? that doesnt even make sense to compare them career wise

nfrillman
06-29-2007, 03:21 AM
None of those players could do what Smith did two years ago.

How about Holt in 2003. 2003 was Bulger's first season in as the starter from the beginning. Here are Bulger's stats from 2003 in comparison to Delhomme's in 2005.

Bulger: 3845 yards, 22 TD's, 22 INT's, 81.4 QB Rating
Delhomme: 3421 yards, 24 TD's, 16 INT's, 88.1 QB Rating

So obviously Bulger was not nearly the player that he is now. In fact that is a rather average season and a lesser one than Delhomme's in 2005. Now for Holt's 2003 stats in comparison to Smith's 2005 stats.

Holt: 117 catches, 1696 yards, 12 TD's, 14.5 YPC, 84 catches for first downs
Smith: 103 catches, 1563 yards, 12 TD's, 15.2 YPC, 70 catches for first downs

We all know that Smith's 2005 season was amazing, but don't go around saying no one can do what he did in a similar situation when someone has had a better season quite recently in virtually the the same situation. I have also noticed that in 2004 Muhammad had a 93 catch, 1405 yards, and 16 TD season. That's one hell of a season by a guy which is not now, and was not then, in the discussion of best WR in the league by anyone, and he just so happened to be on the exact same team that Smith plays for. I know for a team it is always best to have another receiver to look too, but from an individual stats standpoint it isn't necessarily a bad thing to be the absolute only option. You know why, because you are the only option.

Dam8610
06-29-2007, 03:25 AM
Yeah man it's a good thing he didn't have a better QB throwing to him or anything :rolleyes: and good thing Marvin didn't have a Pro Bowl WR on the other side taking away double teams :rolleyes:

Reggie Wayne was nowhere near Pro Bowl caliber in 2001 and 2002, and in those years Marvin was basically the Colts' only reliable target, ala Smith for the Panthers in 2005. Regardless of what arguments about extenuating circumstances you want to make, I did prove the original point (that none of Harrison, Holt, Johnson, or Owens could do what Smith did in 2005) wrong.

Sniper
06-29-2007, 03:42 AM
Reggie Wayne was nowhere near Pro Bowl caliber in 2001 and 2002, and in those years Marvin was basically the Colts' only reliable target, ala Smith for the Panthers in 2005. Regardless of what arguments about extenuating circumstances you want to make, I did prove the original point (that none of Harrison, Holt, Johnson, or Owens could do what Smith did in 2005) wrong.


Yes you did. I just find Smith putting up those numbers more impressive due to the talent around him vs. the talent around Marvin.

MasterShake
06-29-2007, 10:15 AM
Are suggesting Cotchery was of great benefit from great QB play of Chad Pennington and all of the double teams Coles demands? Cotchery is a very good WR - probably a top 5 #2. I think he'll be a solid #1 in a few years too. Possession WRs like Cotchery are pretty rare.

What I was saying is that if someone had made this list 1 year ago and put Jericho Cotchery in the top 25 over a guy maybe like Randy Moss...people would have flipped out. But he would have been right because Cotchery was in the top 25 stat wise I'm pretty sure.

Shiver
06-29-2007, 11:30 AM
Why are we talking about Marvin Harrison's '02 season? Or Holt's '03? It is entirely irrelevant. This is a thread about the upcoming season. The past two seasons indicate that Steve Smith will be more productive. He had a dominant season in '05, then had an excellent season last year in spite of injuries and Chris Weinke.

reese
06-29-2007, 11:50 AM
Reggie Wayne was nowhere near Pro Bowl caliber in 2001 and 2002, and in those years Marvin was basically the Colts' only reliable target, ala Smith for the Panthers in 2005. Regardless of what arguments about extenuating circumstances you want to make, I did prove the original point (that none of Harrison, Holt, Johnson, or Owens could do what Smith did in 2005) wrong.

theres no way to prove the piont wrong...its an opinion...and y cant u ppl relize that he was sayin he didnt think those other guys could do what smith did in smith's situation. i dont agree with what he said but theres no way to prove it wrong becuz we cant put those players in his situation

reese
06-29-2007, 11:51 AM
How about Holt in 2003. 2003 was Bulger's first season in as the starter from the beginning. Here are Bulger's stats from 2003 in comparison to Delhomme's in 2005.

Bulger: 3845 yards, 22 TD's, 22 INT's, 81.4 QB Rating
Delhomme: 3421 yards, 24 TD's, 16 INT's, 88.1 QB Rating

So obviously Bulger was not nearly the player that he is now. In fact that is a rather average season and a lesser one than Delhomme's in 2005. Now for Holt's 2003 stats in comparison to Smith's 2005 stats.

Holt: 117 catches, 1696 yards, 12 TD's, 14.5 YPC, 84 catches for first downs
Smith: 103 catches, 1563 yards, 12 TD's, 15.2 YPC, 70 catches for first downs

We all know that Smith's 2005 season was amazing, but don't go around saying no one can do what he did in a similar situation when someone has had a better season quite recently in virtually the the same situation. I have also noticed that in 2004 Muhammad had a 93 catch, 1405 yards, and 16 TD season. That's one hell of a season by a guy which is not now, and was not then, in the discussion of best WR in the league by anyone, and he just so happened to be on the exact same team that Smith plays for. I know for a team it is always best to have another receiver to look too, but from an individual stats standpoint it isn't necessarily a bad thing to be the absolute only option. You know why, because you are the only option.

the rams offense and the panthers offense are in now way shape or form similar situations..where did u even get that idea from?

nfrillman
06-29-2007, 02:15 PM
Why are we talking about Marvin Harrison's '02 season? Or Holt's '03? It is entirely irrelevant. This is a thread about the upcoming season. The past two seasons indicate that Steve Smith will be more productive. He had a dominant season in '05, then had an excellent season last year in spite of injuries and Chris Weinke.

Personally, I brought up Holt's 2003 season to make a point. Anytime I think that someone is just pulling some crap out of the their butt to make their point, I will try to prove them wrong. We all know that was an amazing 2005 season, but the statement he made is ridiculous. While we are busy saying that no one else can have seasons like (insert name). I am going to say that there is no way, ever, that someone will have the exact same season in the exact same situation as Shaun McDonald's 2005 season. I also find it hard to believe that anyone will ever have the same stats in the same situation as Eddie Kennison did in 2004. Can't people see how ridiculous an argument this is? Anyone can make an argument for anything when all they have to do to dispute a claim to the contrary is just say, "It isn't the same enough."

reese
06-29-2007, 03:14 PM
Personally, I brought up Holt's 2003 season to make a point. Anytime I think that someone is just pulling some crap out of the their butt to make their point, I will try to prove them wrong. We all know that was an amazing 2005 season, but the statement he made is ridiculous. While we are busy saying that no one else can have seasons like (insert name). I am going to say that there is no way, ever, that someone will have the exact same season in the exact same situation as Shaun McDonald's 2005 season. I also find it hard to believe that anyone will ever have the same stats in the same situation as Eddie Kennison did in 2004. Can't people see how ridiculous an argument this is? Anyone can make an argument for anything when all they have to do to dispute a claim to the contrary is just say, "It isn't the same enough."


thats not the case here...if u insert steve smith or marvin harrison or any of the other top of the line wrs into eddie kinnison or shawn mcdonalds situations then they would have done more then likely better then those guys

nfrillman
06-29-2007, 03:43 PM
thats not the case here...if u insert steve smith or marvin harrison or any of the other top of the line wrs into eddie kinnison or shawn mcdonalds situations then they would have done more then likely better then those guys

We will never know that for sure though. I could just sit here and say no one will ever do what they did those seasons. You know why, because no one will ever be on that exact roster again, under those exact situations. I know it is a stupid argument, and that's what I am pointing out about that guy's argument for Smith. It is a stupid argument because it is something we can never know and all he has to do to dispute the achievements of another WR in a similar situation is say, "It wasn't similar enough."

Well I will say right now, no other WR could ever do what Holt did in 2003, what Harrison did in 2002, what Moss did in 2003, etc. Try to argue it, I will just tell you flat out, "Hey, that situation wasn't similar enough."

reese
06-29-2007, 03:47 PM
We will never know that for sure though. I could just sit here and say no one will ever do what they did those seasons. You know why, because no one will ever be on that exact roster again, under those exact situations. I know it is a stupid argument, and that's what I am pointing out about that guy's argument for Smith. It is a stupid argument because it is something we can never know and all he has to do to dispute the achievements of another WR in a similar situation is say, "It wasn't similar enough."

Well I will say right now, no other WR could ever do what Holt did in 2003, what Harrison did in 2002, what Moss did in 2003, etc. Try to argue it, I will just tell you flat out, "Hey, that situation wasn't similar enough."


i dont even kno what ur tryin to say

reese
06-29-2007, 04:05 PM
he's saying it's a stupid argument. you lack reading comprehension.

its not a stupid argument...he is makin things up and tryin to make it sound stupid. he keeps sayin its stupid becuz the im sayin they didnt play in the same situation. he keeps sayin it like im sayin there situations werent "similar enuf".. they werent even close at all...nuthin about the rams and panthers offenses are the same. it would be different it were talkin about the colts and the rams becuz they both throw it all over the field but the panthers dont do that. so how bout next time u feel like making a smart ass comment u actually read the thread...then make an attempt at a logical football thought and then present a post that provides some type of insight to what was goin on. but u probley lack the football comprehesion to do something like that so instead u make jokes and choose to make smart ass comments to hide ur lack of knowledge of the game of football

reese
06-29-2007, 04:23 PM
what a bitter, pointless, stupid rant.



he's making a CLEAR and OBVIOUS analogy here in the post YOU responded to. do you have any idea how to follow the discussion, or did you just quote the wrong thing and not bother proof-reading to make sure your snarky little comment fit?

but gosh, yeah, you got me, i should make a point about football when i'm pointing out that you can't read. wow, why didn't i think of that? it makes so much more sense if i insert some random factoid into a discussion in which it isn't relevant! do you have any vague idea what you're talking about?

further, i fail to see where i made any kind of "joke". joke would imply that i was trying to be humorous. i was merely pointing out that you have no ability to understand simple english. which you've just now proven a second time. are you going to respond again so i can show you yet another post of yours that won't make sense, or are you smart enough to realize your response to that particular post was, to be honest, silly?

yes u should make a football comment being that were on a FOOTBALL message board...this message board isnt english 101...or a online reading comprehension course...so ur thought on my reading ability serve no purpose...

reese
06-29-2007, 04:30 PM
pot, meet kettle. you made a dumb comment. i told you why it was dumb. you told me i should comment on football when i'm telling you why you made a dumb comment. even though football has ZERO relation to why your comment was terrible. how about this, YOU stop posting and I can stop correcting your abysmal english skills. no? then learn how to read so you don't look ridiculous when you respond.

if i couldnt read i couldnt respond to ur post genius. how bout we go on an english 101 message board and ill post and u can correct my english all day...but as long as were on here ill keep pointing out ur lack of knowledge towards football.

reese
06-29-2007, 06:55 PM
which you have yet to successfully do, ever. nor will you. you haven't raised even ONE relevant or insightful post in this entire thread. oh? you think you have? quote 3. but way to turn this around! you utterly missed why i was correcting your english, and decided to attack my supposed lack of football knowledge! brilliant.

like i said...of course i attack ur knowledge of football..this being a football message board and all...how dare i do something like question ur football knowledge on a football site....of course im wrong in doing that....and ur right in attacking my reading and english skills on a FOOTBALL site...i dont kno where i got confused

Green Bay Scat
06-29-2007, 07:45 PM
njx9, we need to get u laid. ur like that one teacher that u know hasnt gotten it in like 10 years, so shes a complete *****

frogstomp
06-29-2007, 07:51 PM
yes u should make a football comment being that were on a FOOTBALL message board...this message board isnt english 101...or a online reading comprehension course...so ur thought on my reading ability serve no purpose...


Actually, when it gets to the point where we can no longer discuss football because someone isn't intelligent enough to read properly, it is relevant.

Believe me, we're way past that point, and it is, in fact, due to your inability to read/post intelligently.

remix 6
06-29-2007, 07:52 PM
njx9, we need to get u laid. ur like that one teacher that u know hasnt gotten it in like 10 years, so shes a complete *****

agreed. +reps

Green Bay Scat
06-29-2007, 08:00 PM
a better solution would be limiting the number of stupid posts. but *shrug*

im sorry but this is a stupid post. to think stupid people would just "smart up" is classic, but hey, we can dream cant we?

BlindSite
06-29-2007, 08:05 PM
Why are we talking about Marvin Harrison's '02 season? Or Holt's '03? It is entirely irrelevant. This is a thread about the upcoming season. The past two seasons indicate that Steve Smith will be more productive. He had a dominant season in '05, then had an excellent season last year in spite of injuries and Chris Weinke.

You can pretty much say Smith played 11 games though he was in 14, since weinke was QBing for 3 games and he was injured for the first two.

scottyboy
06-29-2007, 08:14 PM
You can pretty much say Smith played 11 games though he was in 14, since weinke was QBing for 3 games and he was injured for the first two.

umm one game weinke played, he threw like 60 times, vs the Giants, im pretty sure that would help Smith...

BlindSite
06-29-2007, 08:40 PM
Yeah, but he still played like crap. Throwing a lot is no good if the passes don't go where they need to be and when they need to be there...

Shiver
06-29-2007, 09:13 PM
umm one game weinke played, he threw like 60 times, vs the Giants, im pretty sure that would help Smith...

Steve Smith's production was markedly worse when Weinke was playing.

yo123
06-29-2007, 10:27 PM
umm one game weinke played, he threw like 60 times, vs the Giants, im pretty sure that would help Smith...




I could go out there and throw 60 passes too. Most of them would probably even be better than Weinke's passes. They have to be on target for that to help him.

frogstomp
06-29-2007, 11:31 PM
im sorry but this is a stupid post. to think stupid people would just "smart up" is classic, but hey, we can dream cant we?


Just because one person feels at home with stupidity does not mean everyone else will.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
06-30-2007, 10:49 PM
so im im goin through the pages an im readin wat you kids are sayin an a couple of things are brought to mind....
1- i think half the posters in here missed the big bold black print that stated based on upcomin 2007 season which mean who gives a flyin flip wat everybody did last year or the previous 5 years
2- if you think steve smith not playin in 2 games last season an him playin for the panthers doesnt hamper his stats then im sorry your stupid an need to slit your wrists
3-...nfrillman stated on page 5...Smith is an excellent WR,...now i ask ya'll this....wat is better than excellent?? jus wonderin
4- im a memeber of another forum an the mods on there are cool they can take jokes an not take the posts personally...this njx9 character looks as if he needs a jesus hug..i dunno him personally nor do i care to but somebody reach out an hug this poor soul..its seems not only do the rules not apply to him cause he personally attacks people on here day in an day and cusses profusely but he has no significant football knowledge to contribute so therefore he attacks people with off topic subjects to make himself feel better because he doesnt know football( im assumin )
5- an lastly will everybody please quit jockin the mods an spread rep to everybody i looked at the members listin an only the mod have high rep power an alota points..mayb its cause they are football gods but judgin from njx9 posts ive seen they could all jus be pricks who need some poon or a hug or both

thats all im done ill report back when i have something else to complain about

Sniper
06-30-2007, 11:11 PM
2- if you think steve smith not playin in 2 games last season an him playin for the panthers doesnt hamper his stats then im sorry your stupid an need to slit your wrists

Wow chill there buddy it's not that big of a deal.



May I also recommend Phonics?

nfrillman
06-30-2007, 11:18 PM
so im im goin through the pages an im readin wat you kids are sayin an a couple of things are brought to mind....
3-...nfrillman stated on page 5...Smith is an excellent WR,...now i ask ya'll this....wat is better than excellent?? jus wonderin

Whats better than excellent? The best. I hope that clears it up, since that is what I was saying. Smith is excellent, but he isn't clearly the best, like the boneheads at ESPN keep preaching.

reese
07-01-2007, 01:13 AM
Whats better than excellent? The best. I hope that clears it up, since that is what I was saying. Smith is excellent, but he isn't clearly the best, like the boneheads at ESPN keep preaching.

i think steve smith is the second best in the league...so tell me what is weakness is or tell me who u think is better and y...if u cant then it shows that ur wrong or lack the knowledge in football to prove a point.

BlindSite
07-01-2007, 02:57 AM
Whats better than excellent? The best. I hope that clears it up, since that is what I was saying. Smith is excellent, but he isn't clearly the best, like the boneheads at ESPN keep preaching.

He is the best in the league. He's outperformed every receiver the last two years despite having no running game out of the bottom 5 for those two years and only have one legit receiving threat in Keyshawn on the other side for one year.

He's done more, with less, than anyone else in the NFL over the past two years.

He's done it all playing against good competition and bad and done it with a smile, class and heart, he is the NFL's best receiver right now imo.

remix 6
07-01-2007, 04:29 AM
He is the best in the league. He's outperformed every receiver the last two years despite having no running game out of the bottom 5 for those two years and only have one legit receiving threat in Keyshawn on the other side for one year.

He's done more, with less, than anyone else in the NFL over the past two years.

He's done it all playing against good competition and bad and done it with a smile, class and heart, he is the NFL's best receiver right now imo.

class like that time he got ejected? j/k

Smith is da man.

BlindSite
07-01-2007, 06:52 AM
That was kind of messed up imo, all he did was put his hand on the refs hip. Still, its a breach of the rules.

Contr0versy
07-01-2007, 08:21 AM
Driver is very underrated, he's right where he belongs. Randy Moss should be higher. Where the heck is Joey Galloway??!!!???!?!?!! He's better than half of the guys on that list right now at age 34 or whatever, and had better seasons than most of those guys last year with freaking Bruce Gradkowski throwing to him behind a bad OLine with no RB. And he's probably one of the 5 fastest WRs in the NFL still.I couldn't have said it any better.

I'd also put Terry Glen on that list as well. Glen and Galloway are some of the most underrated receivers in the game today. I know they've had injury issues in the past, but when they're healthy and have a decent QB throwing them the ball, they show flashes of greatness on the field at times. How T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Deion Branch, and Calvin Johnson made the list before Glen and Galloway is beyond me.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 11:23 AM
May I also recommend Phonics?

did you raise your hand to speak??

watchu may recommend is something intelligent to the thread if not then leave cause your a waste of time an space

ShutDwn
07-01-2007, 11:38 AM
Whats better than excellent? The best. I hope that clears it up, since that is what I was saying. Smith is excellent, but he isn't clearly the best, like the boneheads at ESPN keep preaching.

Name something that one of other guys can do that Smith can't.

Acreboy
07-01-2007, 11:50 AM
Name something that one of other guys can do that Smith can't.I'm sure better jump balls.

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 11:51 AM
did you raise your hand to speak??

watchu may recommend is something intelligent to the thread if not then leave cause your a waste of time an space

Did you really type out the word "watchu"?

What the hell is going on here?

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 02:22 PM
so we can cuss now??? in that case wat the "hell" is goin on is i short typed

an by you pointin out my spellin shows to me that you have no intelligent comment to make so you ? my spellin...please keep the topic on football not how people spell

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 02:29 PM
so we can cuss now??? in that case wat the "hell" is goin on is i short typed

an by you pointin out my spellin shows to me that you have no intelligent comment to make so you ? my spellin...please keep the topic on football not how people spell


As soon as someone types out the word "watchu", I immediately disregard everything else they say.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 02:32 PM
so you make a post about it....do you want me to tell you wat it means..are you that old you dunno wat it means?

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 02:34 PM
personally as soon as someone ?s someones spellin on a football message board i disregard their outlook on everything

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 02:37 PM
personally as soon as someone ?s someones spellin on a football message board i disregard their outlook on everything

*shrug*, if you don't want to listen to me, that's fine. Either way, I'm not the one that looks like an idiot.

Jensen
07-01-2007, 02:48 PM
personally as soon as someone ?s someones spellin on a football message board i disregard their outlook on everything

Because you can't take the extra 5 seconds to actually spell it out?

Moses
07-01-2007, 02:54 PM
personally as soon as someone ?s someones spellin on a football message board i disregard their outlook on everything

Personally as soon as somebody writes like a 4-year old I regard them as a complete moron, which they clearly are.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Personally as soon as somebody writes like a 4-year old I regard them as a complete moron, which they clearly are.

well your right there with me then numb nuts...leave out the hyphen next time its not needed or didnt you learn that in english class along with how to make myself look smarter on a message board by pointin out someones spellin because im to dumb to state an intelligent comment bout the topic so i choose to nit pick someones short typin...in which case youd get an A in that class....

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:01 PM
also was that not a personal attack callin me a complete moron???


but i guess if you make the rules you dont have to follow them huh...

ncstateviking
07-01-2007, 03:04 PM
or if it is clear and apparent that you are indeed a moron. then its not an attack...just stating the impression you give off.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:05 PM
blah blah blah...are you dick weeds gonna actually talk football on here or jus talk out your asses?

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 03:06 PM
also was that not a personal attack callin me a complete moron???


but i guess if you make the rules you dont have to follow them huh...


Actually, it's generally accepted around here as long as it's the truth... and especially if someone asks for it.

"Watchu" isn't any shorter than "what you". Wait, you didn't have to hit the space bar. Admit it, you just thought it would make you look cool, and instead it made you like an ignorant jackass.

Windy
07-01-2007, 03:06 PM
i am stephen a smith. everything i say is important.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:08 PM
ive been negged twice for spellin lol.." i cant read if i dont understand"...**** all you loser bitches get some *****...all you **** boys know you can read my **** ya'll jus either A cant respond to it or B dont have anythign intelligent to say ill prolly get banned but **** ya'll are some bitches on here that dont know a goddamn thing bout football **** you all have a good day

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Actually, it's generally accepted around here as long as it's the truth... and especially if someone asks for it.

"Watchu" isn't any shorter than "what you". Wait, you didn't have to hit the space bar. Admit it, you just thought it would make you look cool, and instead it made you like an ignorant jackass.

actually dip **** watchu has one less letter in it learn to count dumb ****

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Actually, it's generally accepted around here as long as it's the truth... and especially if someone asks for it.

"Watchu" isn't any shorter than "what you". Wait, you didn't have to hit the space bar. Admit it, you just thought it would make you look cool, and instead it made you like an ignorant jackass.

oh ok so as long as everybody shares that opinion then you can attack people ok i get it now

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:12 PM
oh ok so as long as everybody shares that opinion then you can attack people ok i get it now

your dumb dude just shut up damn

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:13 PM
i got alotta points im god on this board...blah blah blah... you prolly got swirlyed in high skool didnt you ya *****

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:14 PM
i got alotta points im god on this board...blah blah blah... you prolly got swirlyed in high skool didnt you ya *****

wats swirlyed???

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 03:15 PM
i got alotta points im god on this board...blah blah blah... you prolly got swirlyed in high skool didnt you ya *****

Actually, my rep isn't high at all. It used to be more than twice as high, but it was reset.

Compared to most people, my current rep is very mediocre.

However, I don't need a good rep to recognize when someone is a giant douche.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:15 PM
your dumb dude just shut up damn

actually spunk wad there was an intelligent argument goin till people started bitchin bout grammar in here...everybody knows football players are dumb as hammers so why should we use correct grammar when talkin bout people who are dumb themselves **** you have a nice day

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:16 PM
Actually, my rep isn't high at all. It used to be more than twice as high, but it was reset.

Compared to most people, my current rep is very mediocre.

**** you an your rep you piece of **** guy you

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:17 PM
actually spunk wad there was an intelligent argument goin till people started bitchin bout grammar in here...everybody knows football players are dumb as hammers so why should we use correct grammar when talkin bout people who are dumb themselves **** you have a nice day

did you just say spunk wad

hahaha wow r u five

Windy
07-01-2007, 03:17 PM
cartmanclone is leroy from yonder.

frogstomp
07-01-2007, 03:18 PM
everybody knows football players are dumb as hammers so why should we use correct grammar when talkin bout people who are dumb themselves

That's a pretty ingorant sterotype. A lot of football players are quite intelligent. I'd say 99% are even moreso than you.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:18 PM
yeah im five usin a computer to type out words i cant even spell because im five...wat are you ***?..a loser? unable to get an erection cause your ******* ugly?...who knows..who cares **** you

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:19 PM
That's a pretty ingorant sterotype. A lot of football players are quite intelligent. I'd say 99% are even moreso than you.


sean morey former steeler current cardinal went to brown

zak desotie(sp) went to brown

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:20 PM
yeah im five usin a computer to type out words i cant even spell because im five...wat are you ***?..a loser? unable to get an erection cause your ******* ugly?...who knows..who cares **** you

lol you make me laugh hahaha


at least i dont talk hard on a keyboard
r you ********

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:20 PM
That's a pretty ingorant sterotype. A lot of football players are quite intelligent. I'd say 99% are even moreso than you.

i bet you deep throat everyone of them also huh ****** dick ridin *****

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:21 PM
lol you make me laugh hahaha


at least i dont talk hard on a keyboard
r you ********


spellin error..somone get in here an ban this fool cause he doesnt spell up to webster dictionary standards

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:22 PM
"at least i dont talk hard on the keyboard" lol..quit jockin me ***** bait

reese
07-01-2007, 03:23 PM
seriously made me laugh out loud reading the last 10 post

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:23 PM
so if used correct grammar an **** but still had a stupid ass opinion id be accepted on here like the rest of you assholes huh

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:24 PM
"at least i dont talk hard on the keyboard" lol..quit jockin me ***** bait

"quit jokin me ***** bait"

whats that

Moses
07-01-2007, 03:24 PM
Oh, Leroy. I wish your parents would give you more attention so you wouldn't waste your time making a donkey of yourself here.

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:25 PM
moses speaks the truth

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:27 PM
"quit jokin me ***** bait"

whats that

its called a spellin error on your be half stupid ****...i said jock not joke numb nuts learn to read before tryin to argue you must be four years old since your not as intelligent as my feeble five your old mind

yo123
07-01-2007, 03:28 PM
ive been negged twice for spellin lol.." i cant read if i dont understand"...**** all you loser bitches get some *****...all you **** boys know you can read my **** ya'll jus either A cant respond to it or B dont have anythign intelligent to say ill prolly get banned but **** ya'll are some bitches on here that dont know a goddamn thing bout football **** you all have a good day



do you use periods? (Its two keys to the right of the M)

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:29 PM
its called a spellin error on your be half stupid ****...i said jock not joke numb nuts learn to read before tryin to argue you must be four years old since your not as intelligent as my feeble five your old mind

no you said jokin. i can read just fine. but what you type i have a hard time understanding words. you piece of ****. get the **** outta here man

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:29 PM
how you able to type with moses dick in your mouth hines???

moses is prolly some 40 year old loser who lives with his mom an jacks off to watchin peyton mannin play cause he cant get a girlfriend....research the people you JOCK

Moses
07-01-2007, 03:30 PM
how you able to type with moses dick in your mouth hines???

moses is prolly some 40 year old loser who lives with his mom an jacks off to watchin peyton mannin play cause he cant get a girlfriend....research the people you JOCK

Prolly......

yo123
07-01-2007, 03:30 PM
how you able to type with moses dick in your mouth hines???

moses is prolly some 40 year old loser who lives with his mom an jacks off to watchin peyton mannin play cause he cant get a girlfriend....research the people you JOCK



not to be a smartass but i dont think having a dick in your mouth would have any affect on your ability to type...

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:31 PM
no you said jokin. i can read just fine. but what you type i have a hard time understanding words. you piece of ****. get the **** outta here man
some one get in here an ban him not only can he not read hes also cussin...i said JOCK stupid **** go re read the post its not edited or anything your jus a dumb **** that cant read

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:32 PM
not to be a smartass but i dont think having a dick in your mouth would have any affect on your ability to type...


prolly not for you cause your a pro at it...an not to be a negative person but shut the f u c k up...oh man outsmarted ya on that one

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:32 PM
how you able to type with moses dick in your mouth hines???

moses is prolly some 40 year old loser who lives with his mom an jacks off to watchin peyton mannin play cause he cant get a girlfriend....research the people you JOCK


dude if u r in high school good luck graduating.

"his mom an jacks off"

i hope u know "an" goes before a vowel word. a goes before a constanant.

hahaha dumbshit

"mannin" ha ya your really intelligent even my 6 month sis knows how to spelling MANNING.

im a jock ya thats it
im a jock

yo123
07-01-2007, 03:33 PM
prolly not for you cause your a pro at it...an not to be a negative person but shut the f u c k up...oh man outsmarted ya on that one


Yes you can spell ****. I am very happy for you. Now lets move on to some words that are used by mature adults.

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:33 PM
some one get in here an ban him not only can he not read hes also cussin...i said JOCK stupid **** go re read the post its not edited or anything your jus a dumb **** that cant read

im the one cussing. ya thats why every other word is a cuss word from you. your pitiful just like those jags of yours.

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:35 PM
dude if u r in high school good luck graduating.

"his mom an jacks off"

i hope u know "an" goes before a vowel word. a goes before a constanant.

hahaha dumbshit

"mannin" ha ya your really intelligent even my 6 month sis knows how to spelling MANNING.

im a jock ya thats it
im a jock

first off ass face i know grammar rules im typin short hand..second im not callin yo a JOCK..i wouldnt compliment you that much or make actual athletes look that bad...do ya know wat a JOCK strap is..well thats wat you are..moses jock strap so...quit JOCKIN him

an if i was your sister id kill myself

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:36 PM
im the one cussing. ya thats why every other word is a cuss word from you. your pitiful just like those jags of yours.

yeah the same pitiful jags that told willie parker an the steelers to sit the **** down

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:36 PM
first off ass face i know grammar rules im typin short hand..second im not callin yo a JOCK..i wouldnt compliment you that much or make actual athletes look that bad...do ya know wat a JOCK strap is..well thats wat you are..moses jock strap so...quit JOCKIN him

an if i was your sister id kill myself

lol im done with you man


your really pitiful
get a life

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:37 PM
yeah the same pitiful jags that told willie parker an the steelers to sit the **** down

hey man the steelers five rings look nice dont they

how many the jags got
oh ya none huh

yo123
07-01-2007, 03:37 PM
first off ass face i know grammar rules im typin short hand..second im not callin yo a JOCK..i wouldnt compliment you that much or make actual athletes look that bad...do ya know wat a JOCK strap is..well thats wat you are..moses jock strap so...quit JOCKIN him

an if i was your sister id kill myself



Did you just call someone a "jock strap." I hope you dont expect anybody to be offended by that. again... the period is to the left of the question mark. (the squiggly thing with the dot under it)

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:37 PM
me getta life but yet your arguin with me...quit man crushin moses an get up an be productive... an change your sig to a good team

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:39 PM
me getta life but yet your arguin with me...quit man crushin moses an get up an be productive... an change your sig to a good team

all i said was moses was the man and he speaks the truth


but i guess im man crushing


like i said 5 to 0
maybe one day when the jags actually get a real team with real offence and can make the playoffs then u can come talk to me
but in the mean time just dont say another word

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:39 PM
oh yeah i forgot the jags have been around the same amount of years as the steelers.....and i know where the god damn period is you see it bein used jus not correctly **** nut

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:40 PM
umm didnt your steelers miss the playoffs last year???

Moses
07-01-2007, 03:40 PM
Yeesh, mods are slow today.

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:41 PM
umm didnt your steelers miss the playoffs last year???

ya um like the first time in how many years

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:45 PM
ya wasnt there in 03

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:47 PM
ya wasnt there in 03

ok so wat 13 outta the 15 years that cowher was there they didnt make the playoffs

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:48 PM
jus answerin your ?

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:50 PM
jus answerin your ?

yes i know but you are saying that the steelers are a bad team because they missed the playoffs twice in like 10 years

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:52 PM
no i said they were bad because you said the jags were pitiful but yet we beat you

Hines
07-01-2007, 03:53 PM
no i said they were bad because you said the jags were pitiful but yet we beat you

ya the last two years because we had tommy maddox in

and then we had a injured ben

if ben was healthy in both

we woulda won

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:55 PM
um yeah ok..i could say the same for us if we had a consistent QB we would be in they playoffs every year

HoopsDemon12
07-01-2007, 03:56 PM
ok so wat 13 outta the 15 years that cowher was there they didnt make the playoffs

look on the bright side guys... your not like me and have to sit through countless bills seasons wihtout a playoff birth

LEROY_FROM_YONDER
07-01-2007, 03:59 PM
HOOPS...your bout to get bashed yo...you used to many periods after guys anD you didnt capitalize look at the beginnin of the sentence

HoopsDemon12
07-01-2007, 04:08 PM
HOOPS...your bout to get bashed yo...you used to many periods after guys anD you didnt capitalize look at the beginnin of the sentence

but i have been here for awhile and this is the way i post.... has not changed since i got here...

reese
07-01-2007, 04:09 PM
but i have been here for awhile and this is the way i post.... has not changed since i got here...


i think he was being scarcastic cuz alotta ppl was bashing him earlier for spelling/grammer

HoopsDemon12
07-01-2007, 04:10 PM
i think he was being scarcastic cuz alotta ppl was bashing him earlier for spelling/grammer

i know thats what he was doing.. i was just stateing the reasons im not concerened about it... i cant spell half of the time... if you step on toes... people will bash everything about you.. its just the way it works