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Hermstheman83
06-27-2007, 12:43 AM
Hey guys'
I noticed Tank got waived by the CHicago Bears. With Herm emphasizing defene moreso nowdays, and our D-Line prospects unproven, do you think Herm and Co. will take a shot with him? It seems like when he got pulled over he was barely intoxicated, and I sometimes think people target guys' like Tank, although I'd like to see what the test results were. I don't think a lot of guys' would take a shot at him due to his background, but Herm being a players' coach, could shape him up. Thoughts?

sweetness34
06-27-2007, 01:04 AM
Good luck with that piece of crap. Lovie was a players coach too and look how that turned out.

Splat
06-27-2007, 08:53 AM
No way I would go after this guy no way for one he is really not that good just another rotion DT we all ready have he can't stay out of trouble off the field add that to the fact that who ever picks him up he still has to sit for the 8 games pass.

Ho0k Em'
06-27-2007, 09:38 AM
We have enough DT's already, and he's nothing special.

kmartin575
06-27-2007, 11:59 AM
We have enough DT's already, and he's nothing special.

He's better than most of the guys we have.

Currently we don't have that under tackle type of player in our DT rotation unless Turk McBride steps up and becomes that player. We don't have a guy who can consistently pressure the QB from the inside.

bored of education
06-27-2007, 12:00 PM
Only room for one TANK at KC.

Ho0k Em'
06-27-2007, 07:06 PM
He's better than most of the guys we have.

Currently we don't have that under tackle type of player in our DT rotation unless Turk McBride steps up and becomes that player. We don't have a guy who can consistently pressure the QB from the inside.

We have Reed, Edwards, Boone, Turk, Tank, Stephen Williams(assuming he makes the team), and Wilkerson who will all probably get some time in the rotation. Tank isn't gonna make enough of a difference to throw some money at someone with serious character isssues.

villagewarrior
06-27-2007, 07:11 PM
More then the numbers crunch, Tank has too many personal issues for my liking. I can understand maybe one indescretion, or two, but guys like Tank and Pacman who continually find ways to get into trouble are completely unreliable. All Tank had to do was stay out of trouble, now regardless of whether he was drunk or not, that matters not, the fact is he was out after 3 in the morning and was speeding. That indicates to me that the man is an idiot and obviously believes that he has a God given right to play football. Wrong! It is a priviledge to play in the league, and people like Pacman and Tank have lost theres, IMO.

Hermstheman83
06-27-2007, 09:20 PM
I don't know, they said he was mildly intoxicated and speeding. I don't know if Tank is a bad person. I don't think I'm in a position to judge a guy I don't know. That being said, he's a celebrity, and at times I think people go head-hunting after celebrity's that are in trouble. I think Tank is an example of this. I mean, speeding.....c'mon. I can understand Pacman Jones. He's been arrested numerous times, doesn't seem to care that He's a role model to millions of kids. I think we can say that Pac-man Jones fits the ideal "delinquent" person. I am not sure how many times Tank has gotten arrested(anyone know)? But the fact is that he is a talented Defensive Tackle, alot better than our guys currently(minus our talent) are.

In the end(and ironically) it comes down to money. I think if he wants a massive salary, then absoluetly not. The guy doesn't warrant big time money. I think that is the definitive factor here. If someone gets him at a low,low price, he performs the remainder half of the season. I think if you kept him on a very short leash, gave him a minimal salary he would outperform that(due to his ability). Make it clear that if he screws up again, he's out and if he does that(which he might, and would fit the conception of delinquent) cut him, and it's not a big loss.

I guess I think about this as a draft prospect, except he's proven to be a valuable and proven DT. In the words of many draft gurus 'The Upside to this guy is through the roof"

BPhilb
06-28-2007, 09:56 AM
I think we are overrating his abilities some. When Tommie Harris went down last year Chicago's defense wasn't much more than above average wheras before they were being compared to some of the all time greats. Tank more so than Pac Man or Chris Henry says the right things to the media as far as wanting to be a better person and do the right things, but when the guy knows he's being watched still makes a bad decision. I don't understand how guys making this much money can't hire a cab or a limo when they know the repurcussions of being caught. I would let him be someone else's issue, besides our young guys need to play and develop this season and bringing in Tank isn't going to help that.

KaneMarko
06-28-2007, 10:52 AM
We have Reed, Edwards, Boone, Turk, Tank, Stephen Williams(assuming he makes the team), and Wilkerson who will all probably get some time in the rotation. Tank isn't gonna make enough of a difference to throw some money at someone with serious character isssues.

Iím going to agree and disagree with you.

I agree with you from the standpoint that I too donít think Johnson is worth the risk. I think Tank is a good D-Tackle. But weíre not talking about a Seymour, Henderson or Shaun Rogers caliber tackle.

I disagree from the standpoint that as of right now, there really isnít a proven difference maker in our D-Tackle rotation. Tank Tyler could prove to be one in time. But right now heís unproven. I actually like Ron Edwards. But Alfonso Boone and James Reed are both basically journeyman caliber D-Tackles and are pretty average at best. And to me, Wilkerson and Turk are probably better ends than D-Tackles. And Steve Williams isnít on the team any longer.

If you look at the really good defenses in the league youíll notices that almost all of them have at least one really dominant tackle. The Pats have Seymour and Wilfork. The Chargers have Jamal Williams. The Jags have Stroud and Henderson. The Vikes have Pat and Kevin Williams. Take a step back in time and look at our dominant 95 defense that had Saleamua, who made a pro-bowl, and Joe Phillips who was a huge load in the middle. Who in our D-Tackle rotation, as of right now, is anywhere close to those tackles in terms of talent and production?

Now, Iím not really for going out there and signing Tank Johnson. But I still do not feel like we are set at that position.

kmartin575
06-28-2007, 02:21 PM
We have Reed, Edwards, Boone, Turk, Tank, Stephen Williams(assuming he makes the team), and Wilkerson who will all probably get some time in the rotation. Tank isn't gonna make enough of a difference to throw some money at someone with serious character isssues.

Stephen Williams isn't even with the team anymore.

And until McBride or Tyler prove themselves as playmakers then we don't have a single playmaker or even a halfway decent defensive tackle on the team.

Hermstheman83
06-28-2007, 05:47 PM
We have Reed, Edwards, Boone, Turk, Tank, Stephen Williams(assuming he makes the team), and Wilkerson who will all probably get some time in the rotation. Tank isn't gonna make enough of a difference to throw some money at someone with serious character isssues.

But that's the point. I would think that with the amount of emphasis that Goodell puts on discipline, no franchise will want to even think about Tank Johnson, this will force him too take a big cut in salary. So here we are with a potential impact Defensive tackle, which sadly, has been lacking in KC since the Days of Salemua with an extremely low salary(perhaps Vet's minimum). He sits out his 8 games, he's very well rested and extremely antsy to get back on the field, he shows us what he is truly capable of

I understand that there is a risk with tank Johnson, but like Lovie, Herm won't put up with it. So he messes up, cut him and he's done in the NFL for good. I think with the Bears waiving Johnson, he knows that the NFL is serious now. So we lose a little money with the Vet's minimum...I think that's definately worth the risk.

I think it's unrealistic though, although I would love to see KC do this. During the Off-season, they tend to find good players to Mentor the younger players, I.E. Donnie Edwards, Alfonso Boone, Ty Law, etc. ALthough Tank would be on the Straight and narrow, I still don't see him being a good role model, but on the field.

Splat
06-28-2007, 06:06 PM
TJ would still have to sit for half the season why pick up a troubled player that can't even step on the field till game nine?

Hermstheman83
06-28-2007, 10:35 PM
Yea, look at shawne merriman, mr. steroids sat our four games and that turned into a career game. The guy will be fresh when other's are hurting, sore, etc. I really dont 'see how it's a bad move on KC's part.

Hermstheman83
06-28-2007, 10:37 PM
I also don't think he'd be a "cancer" on the team. He was never critisized of that. He is merely a "delinquent"

Splat
06-29-2007, 09:07 AM
Yea, look at shawne merriman, mr. steroids sat our four games and that turned into a career game. The guy will be fresh when other's are hurting, sore, etc. I really dont 'see how it's a bad move on KC's part.

Shawne Merriman is a two time pro bowler and a starter in the NFL TJ is a back up rotion DT big differnce it is not even close to the same thing. The guy is really not that great when Tommie Harris got hurt there run D started going down hill the Bears have some great players on D TJ ain't one of them.

BPhilb
06-29-2007, 09:22 AM
I also don't think he'd be a "cancer" on the team. He was never critisized of that. He is merely a "delinquent"

With all of the young guys on the team I really don't know if I want these guy's hanging with the likes of Tank. While I agree he might not necessarily be a cancer in the clubhouse, the guy was still involved in a shooting for god's sakes. He's probably not a guy we need Tank Tyler hanging around. I don't think the reward of Tank Johnson is nearly as great of the risk.

Splat
06-29-2007, 09:40 AM
I agree Jared Allen and Tank Tyler have all ready had off the field trouble why bring in a 3rd bad apple on the DL? These guys for sure would end up hanging out one thing leads to another then bam next thing you know you are watching ESPN breaking news three Chiefs players get in fight at bar or worse.

Hermstheman83
06-29-2007, 02:22 PM
I would totally agree with you. The gun charges that tank faced were horrendous. But I think this last crime was a tad over-blown. First, was he even intoxicated? If he was, then yes, it's a crime. People who drive drunk are horrible people.

My only problem with that situation is that when your a celebrity, I think officials tend to go after you. This raises awareness for the community. "Bamm, we got one of your role models..see what happens when you mess with us?" And that is fantastic that they do that. But we don't even know how intoxicated this guy was. Biased Media seemed to throw that tid bit of information out. This sells more papers, saying that Tank "Trouble making Johnson" was at it again, instead of saying that "tank Johnson was pulled over at three pm" It's like the IRaq war, there has been so many schools built, people's lives improved,etc but you never hear about that...why? BECAUSE IT DOES NOT SELL PAPERS!
By the way, mildly intoxicated could occur by using mouthwash.
Although he shouldn't of been out at 3 in the morning, I never knew that was a crime. Perhaps breaking curfew, but hell I've broken curfew when I was a teenage so many times. Is that enough to warrant a complete and total dismissal of this guy? Hell, I hope the graduate school admissions board doesn't find out I broke curfew when I was a teenager!

Keep in mind that these guys' are a little older than the typical, beer drinking, booty pinching frat boys. They also grew up in a environment where they were worshipped(college).

It sounds like I'm condoning his behavior, I am not. What he did was very wrong. However, I just want to illustrate an oppurtunity for growth. He might be a mediocore tackle(I disagree in comparison to the guys' on our current roster). I think we can all agree that even though he's an above average tackle, he is still hands down better than what we currently have.

Now, the question is: Is he a better DT than our guys? Over the six years, that James Reed has played, he has averaged 33 tackles a year, 1.2 sacks per year and 0.7 Pass Deflections...let's shorten this up with a table..

James Reed: 33 tackles, 1.2 sacks, 0.7 Pass Deflections
Ron Edwards: 17 tackles, 1.6 Sacks, 0.17 Pass Deflections
Tank Johnson: 21 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 1 Pass Deflections

Now Tank certainly does not have as many tackles as Reed, but Edwards(who is probably the more talented DT in our group) has less tackles, Tank Johnson, has more sacks per year and more pass deflections per year than combined with those two. Now, Keep in mind, stat's don't lie, but Liar use stat's. However, if you find this erroneous, please tell me. I think I would only condone this if Tank was on a minimal salary and was on a strict no-bad behavior clause. Thanks guys..sorry for the long post.

Ho0k Em'
06-29-2007, 02:34 PM
He's NOT an impact player at all. He's a middle of the pack DT. There's no point in bringing him in when chances the difference won't be very much. It's just a waste of time. There's no point.

Tank also played with Tommie Harris, Alex Brown, Ian Scott, and Adowale Oguleye(spl?).

Hermstheman83
06-30-2007, 05:59 PM
Doesn't that make these stats more impressive? On Average, he has more sacks and pass deflections than the two KC DT's combined. Saying that he had all that talent tells me how good he is when he can put up those stats and still be surrounded by all that talent.

Ho0k Em'
07-01-2007, 09:45 AM
Doesn't that make these stats more impressive? On Average, he has more sacks and pass deflections than the two KC DT's combined. Saying that he had all that talent tells me how good he is when he can put up those stats and still be surrounded by all that talent.

No it means that often times teams were too busy doubling Tommie Harris then care about Tank. I could really care less about his 1 pass deflection a year. There is absolutely no point in picking him up. He's nothing more than an average DT that has serious character issues. The impact would not be enough to waste any kind of money or time on him.

kmartin575
07-01-2007, 02:02 PM
No it means that often times teams were too busy doubling Tommie Harris then care about Tank. I could really care less about his 1 pass deflection a year. There is absolutely no point in picking him up. He's nothing more than an average DT that has serious character issues. The impact would not be enough to waste any kind of money or time on him.

Tommie Harris missed most of the 2006 season yet Tank still put up solid numbers last year.

Ho0k Em'
07-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Tommie Harris missed most of the 2006 season yet Tank still put up solid numbers last year.

Tommie Harris missed 4 games. I'm saying, that Tank is not going to make enough of an impact to waste our money or time.

Hermstheman83
07-01-2007, 11:25 PM
Tommie Harris missed 4 games. I'm saying, that Tank is not going to make enough of an impact to waste our money or time.

So not to waste any money or time? Are you saying that you wouldn't even consider it, even if it was at the Vet's Minimum? That's what I'm saying. I don't know guys' the more I think about this the more I'm unsure of the situation. I think in the end CP wouldn't make this iffy move.

That one pass deflection could change the course of the game. See, San Diego last year, when Pollard blocked a punt and SD recovered it, then LT continued to score a 96 yard td.

Hermstheman83
07-02-2007, 11:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2923817

I guess we won't be getting a bargain...

villagewarrior
07-03-2007, 11:48 PM
I don't care if Tank wasn't legally intoxicated, the fact is he was out at 3 in the morning, and going to places where much good isn't going to happen. He knew he was on a short leash and he risked it anyways.

Hermstheman83
07-04-2007, 09:37 AM
I don't care if Tank wasn't legally intoxicated, the fact is he was out at 3 in the morning, and going to places where much good isn't going to happen. He knew he was on a short leash and he risked it anyways.

But being out three in the morning isn't a crime. You don't know where he was going, doesn't the bars close at 2? I think they do in Iowa. I don't see how that's a justifiable reason to not pick a tackle up.

Hermstheman83
07-08-2007, 07:21 PM
I was thinking about what I said, I think that I don't want to become the Raiders, and picking up Not that good of talent and a guy with serious character issues will help us facilitate the "raider image"

Ho0k Em'
07-09-2007, 08:24 PM
So not to waste any money or time? Are you saying that you wouldn't even consider it, even if it was at the Vet's Minimum? That's what I'm saying. I don't know guys' the more I think about this the more I'm unsure of the situation. I think in the end CP wouldn't make this iffy move.

That one pass deflection could change the course of the game. See, San Diego last year, when Pollard blocked a punt and SD recovered it, then LT continued to score a 96 yard td.

No, I wouldn't consider it. It's not like your filling a huge need. He's a stop-gap player. It's bad publicity and would be a pointless signing.

And a blocked punt is not a pass deflection.

villagewarrior
07-10-2007, 03:46 PM
But being out three in the morning isn't a crime. You don't know where he was going, doesn't the bars close at 2? I think they do in Iowa. I don't see how that's a justifiable reason to not pick a tackle up.

I know that's not a crime, all I'm saying is that he knew he only had 1 strike left and regardless of the consequences decided to go out and stay out until 3 in the morning. That shows a lack of interest in his own personal welfare as well as the welfare of his team and teammates. If a guy is going to continuously do stupid stuff and not learn from his mistakes, he doesn't need signing.

bored of education
07-11-2007, 07:26 AM
IF KC signs him, they would have one of the best young lines End to End in the NFL. Tank and Tank, Claude, Hali, Allen, Alfonso Boone, Jimmy Wilk, James Reed and Ron Edwards.

But Tank and Allen wouldn't be around til week 4 which could give Boone, Claude and Tank some time in the trenches

Splat
07-11-2007, 09:11 AM
TJ is missing 8 games not 4 I still say pass.

villagewarrior
07-11-2007, 11:59 AM
IF KC signs him, they would have one of the best young lines End to End in the NFL. Tank and Tank, Claude, Hali, Allen, Alfonso Boone, Jimmy Wilk, James Reed and Ron Edwards.

But Tank and Allen wouldn't be around til week 4 which could give Boone, Claude and Tank some time in the trenches

This may sound stupid, but who is Claude? I'm drawing a blank.

Hermstheman83
07-11-2007, 01:56 PM
Yea, I think turk MCbrides' real name is Claude. I think if I were him, I wouldn't want anyone to know my real name. Then again, the guy is a big football player...so perhaps it wouldn't matter.

That would fit the pattern too. Tank Johnson is a big character issue guy, but this would most definately be his last straw. I think the thing that would appeal Tank to Herm is that Tank has been in the league for awhile, and he is a good(although that seems debatable on this forum, I don't know why) Defensive Tackle who will see his best years. So the young, talented Defensive Line Prospects(Perhaps Wilkerson, but I am focusing on Tank Tyler and McBride). He has the same set up on the other parts of the defense too...Ty Law being with the secondary, and Donnie with the Linebackers. The question is: Is he a risk? Of course he's a risk, every player in the NFL is a risk. Sometimes i don't think it's fair for young guys' like Tank J., I mean, I could imagine being 20 with 10 million dollars and chicks falling all over me. That's like the mentos and coca cola experiment. Watch it fizz for awhile and then bamm watch it launch. That's still no excuse, but he's being punished for it, and it will be detrimental to his salary for a few years. Let the man prove himself.