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Hermstheman83
06-29-2007, 08:35 AM
Interesting Article about a potential top ten draft pick next year:

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=2&c=654629

I'd love to take this guy, he seems to come with a risk though. But wasnt he the only guy to shut calvin johnson down? We are also very thin at Cornerback...Thoughts?

Ho0k Em'
06-29-2007, 02:38 PM
I'd give a 4th for him. CJ was shut down more than once. Once by Eric Weddle.

Hermstheman83
06-29-2007, 04:58 PM
It said he was out of shape during the workouts, do you think that will scare San Diego and Atlanta(?) out of the running? I think it'd be ok for us because he's an immense talent and he will spend a year behind Ty Law and Surtain.

kmartin575
06-30-2007, 02:28 AM
It said he was out of shape during the workouts, do you think that will scare San Diego and Atlanta(?) out of the running? I think it'd be ok for us because he's an immense talent and he will spend a year behind Ty Law and Surtain.

San Diego doesn't even have a 3rd round pick next year. So unless they are willing to give up a 2nd then they likely have no chance at him. Hell, Denver and Oakland don't have 3rd round picks next year either. I think it's kind of funny we are the only team in the division with a 3rd round pick.

Hermstheman83
06-30-2007, 06:01 PM
I hope a fourth would be adequate to get him, but I am betting a third will be what we'd have to give up. The question: Is he worth that high of a pick?
Also, what about Gaither?

bored of education
07-02-2007, 07:09 AM
I think he is worth a 3rd.

Hermstheman83
07-02-2007, 11:02 AM
I'm not sure, but that's mostly out of ignorance. I live up in Iowa where the only football on TV is Big Ten. And even then I don't pay too much attention to the players.
I think since he was out of shape that will scare a lot of teams off. During the supplemental draft, do teams know what the other teams willing to give up for a player prior to the draft or what?

Hermstheman83
07-04-2007, 09:38 AM
Apparently since we were a playoff team, we have the last priority in terms of the supplemental draft. So if someone like the falcons offer a fourth, to beat that we'd have to offer our third.

NIN1984
07-05-2007, 11:20 AM
3rd pick isn't all that bad this would be a nice pick up for KC who really need a young CB plus he can learn from Law.

Hermstheman83
07-05-2007, 05:12 PM
I tend to agree with that. He'll have a good year behind Ty Law and Surtain, and then his second year in the league, we can drop Surtain or Law(who's a huge part of our salary cap), draft a first day Cornerback....and keep infusing our defense with immense talent. I say first day CB because I'd like to see us beef up our O-Line eventually too....

Hermstheman83
07-06-2007, 07:08 AM
The supplemental draft reviews are out. Scott has Paul Oliver projecting better as a safety than a CB. I'd say we are stacked at Safety, so we might not take him. What's the difference anyways? Cornerbacks are generally faster and can't tackle as well?
I think I bought into the hype about this guy because he is only a three-star prospect, which barely squeeks him into the top ten of CB's this year. I would still take the guy because of us running a Cover-2 Scheme.

BPhilb
07-06-2007, 08:45 AM
I don't see the appeal right now. I would rather build through the draft and get a better body of work to look at before taking a guy who had to leave college early for poor grades. I wouldn't be totally suprised for us to jump into the suppelmental draft at some point given the amount of late round picks we have accumulated, but I would rather go after one of the offensive lineman right now and sort out the DB's in the offseason.

Hermstheman83
07-06-2007, 12:57 PM
That'd be awesome, get that guy out of Nebraska... Gaither seems like a bust to me....

Due to poor grades, according to this Psychology class, they measure different intelligences too, athletics being one of them. Now, I still find it tough to believe that a guy can't get passing grades when the college assimilates his entire class schedule around that(speculation). His one claim to fame is that he shut down CJ. But that in itself poses too many variables to correctly say that, "Having Paul Oliver out in the secondary made CJ have a bad game"

I think with his bad grades, Oliver might drop to a 5 or 6th round pick, then I say we take a shot at him. I don't think Herm likes to use high end picks for Secondary.

bored of education
07-06-2007, 02:51 PM
he has used 2nd/3rd/4th rounders on Secondary.

I wouldn't put it passed herm to use a 3rd rounder on Oliver.

Hermstheman83
07-06-2007, 05:36 PM
Yes, Secondary, but has he used them on Cornerbacks? I think it depends if Herm falls in love with him or not. Would you guys' be upset if he used a third round on Paul Oliver

kmartin575
07-07-2007, 01:55 AM
Yes, Secondary, but has he used them on Cornerbacks? I think it depends if Herm falls in love with him or not. Would you guys' be upset if he used a third round on Paul Oliver

I wouldn't be upset at all. We already probably have two 4th round picks so I could live without a 3rd round pick. Plus, with how many day 2 picks we are likely to have we could trade back into the 3rd if we want to.

BPhilb
07-08-2007, 10:29 AM
Yes, Secondary, but has he used them on Cornerbacks? I think it depends if Herm falls in love with him or not. Would you guys' be upset if he used a third round on Paul Oliver


If we were going to do that I would just assume trade our third round pick for a vetren. I'm not big on Oliver and Day 1 picks carry more value than this.

Hermstheman83
07-08-2007, 07:19 PM
If we were going to do that I would just assume trade our third round pick for a vetren. I'm not big on Oliver and Day 1 picks carry more value than this.

I don't see Herm and CP getting Veterans for draft picks. That doesn't seem to be the pattern for this off-season. Can I ask why your not big on Oliver? I'm a little skeptical, but I think that's because of the whole supplemental draft. He also has the "talent" of a first rounder(a lot of people that I've read on this forum suggest he's probably the #1 Corner in next years draft.) So if that's the case, and even if he's raw, he has a year to play the hickel and learn from the Hall of famer Ty Law. He can also learn from Pat Surtain....

BPhilb
07-08-2007, 08:52 PM
I don't see Herm and CP getting Veterans for draft picks. That doesn't seem to be the pattern for this off-season. Can I ask why your not big on Oliver? I'm a little skeptical, but I think that's because of the whole supplemental draft. He also has the "talent" of a first rounder(a lot of people that I've read on this forum suggest he's probably the #1 Corner in next years draft.) So if that's the case, and even if he's raw, he has a year to play the hickel and learn from the Hall of famer Ty Law. He can also learn from Pat Surtain....


My biggest problem with him is that he can't stay eligble at Georgia and that scares the heck out of me. I'm sure that the university would do everything possible to keep the guy if he was talented and/or wasn't a problem for the team. Also, his big claim to fame is "shutting down" Calvin Johnson. If you go back and see the game it was more of an issue of Reggie Ball getting happy feet and not really giving Johnson time to complete his routes. I know we hear a lot about him being a first round pick, but that means just about nothing at this point of the year. How many CB's run in the 4.5 range and are considered first round prospects in April? There is just to much hype right now for a guy who I don't think will live up to it in the end.

Hermstheman83
07-08-2007, 10:28 PM
My biggest problem with him is that he can't stay eligble at Georgia and that scares the heck out of me. I'm sure that the university would do everything possible to keep the guy if he was talented and/or wasn't a problem for the team. Also, his big claim to fame is "shutting down" Calvin Johnson. If you go back and see the game it was more of an issue of Reggie Ball getting happy feet and not really giving Johnson time to complete his routes. I know we hear a lot about him being a first round pick, but that means just about nothing at this point of the year. How many CB's run in the 4.5 range and are considered first round prospects in April? There is just to much hype right now for a guy who I don't think will live up to it in the end.

How dare you say that about Reggie Ball? that guy could run circles around Peyton Manning :), The fact that Calvin Johnson still did amazing in college with Reg. Ball just amazes me on how good he is(and probably will be). The constant variable here is Reggie Ball sucking at being a quarterback, my question is why didn't that affect(statistically) Calvin Johnson every game? I assume it probably did, but not to the amount when Paul Oliver covered CJ.

Here's something to think about though, Many psychologists(don't take too much credit in that....) evaluate intelligence by seven factors, athletically being one of them. So, according to psychologists(I'm not sure of his name, if you want to know, I will find out for you) Paul Oliver might not be able to read, but still be able to play football really well, when I tutored college biology classes, I ran into studs in basketball, but they simply didn't understand the complex workings of Golgi Bodies :) Also,
Running isn't running a 4.5 fourty is ok in a cover-two scheme, your right though, that alone would probably drop P.O. like four spots at cornerback.

All in all, you have very good arguments for Paul Oliver. But, at the end of the day...KC needs depth at cornerback...so, do we take a shot at him or not?

BPhilb
07-09-2007, 08:39 AM
How dare you say that about Reggie Ball? that guy could run circles around Peyton Manning :), The fact that Calvin Johnson still did amazing in college with Reg. Ball just amazes me on how good he is(and probably will be). The constant variable here is Reggie Ball sucking at being a quarterback, my question is why didn't that affect(statistically) Calvin Johnson every game? I assume it probably did, but not to the amount when Paul Oliver covered CJ.

Here's something to think about though, Many psychologists(don't take too much credit in that....) evaluate intelligence by seven factors, athletically being one of them. So, according to psychologists(I'm not sure of his name, if you want to know, I will find out for you) Paul Oliver might not be able to read, but still be able to play football really well, when I tutored college biology classes, I ran into studs in basketball, but they simply didn't understand the complex workings of Golgi Bodies :) Also,
Running isn't running a 4.5 fourty is ok in a cover-two scheme, your right though, that alone would probably drop P.O. like four spots at cornerback.

All in all, you have very good arguments for Paul Oliver. But, at the end of the day...KC needs depth at cornerback...so, do we take a shot at him or not?

A friend of mine coached high school football for years and told me that some of his 4.0 students couldn't grasp the game at all while others who were poor students were able to pick up the game eaisly. I understand your point and don't disagree. My thought is though is that there is something else there with him. If a college program as big as Georgia really wanted him eligible they probably could have made it happen. The fact that he isn't scares me. I'm making a ton of assumptions which probably isn't fair, but I imagine there is probably something to this. Also, if you take a guy in the suppelmental draft you have to sign him within your existing rookie pool allocation. If we do that we are forced to sign our lower round picks to longer contracts to lessen the immediate blow to our cap and it's a dangerous game to be playing in my opinion. I don't disagree that we need more depth at conerback, but I don't think Oliver is really the right fit for us at the price we are talking about. Now if he's there in round 5 or so then maybe this will make more sense.

Hermstheman83
07-09-2007, 06:37 PM
A friend of mine coached high school football for years and told me that some of his 4.0 students couldn't grasp the game at all while others who were poor students were able to pick up the game eaisly. I understand your point and don't disagree. My thought is though is that there is something else there with him. If a college program as big as Georgia really wanted him eligible they probably could have made it happen. The fact that he isn't scares me. I'm making a ton of assumptions which probably isn't fair, but I imagine there is probably something to this. Also, if you take a guy in the suppelmental draft you have to sign him within your existing rookie pool allocation. If we do that we are forced to sign our lower round picks to longer contracts to lessen the immediate blow to our cap and it's a dangerous game to be playing in my opinion. I don't disagree that we need more depth at conerback, but I don't think Oliver is really the right fit for us at the price we are talking about. Now if he's there in round 5 or so then maybe this will make more sense.


Yea, that might explain what happened to me, at the time I was big, tall and lanky and had trouble remembering plays, etc. Sadly, I was also a horrible student, but I can nullify that since I just graduated(with honors) from college....I digress.
Actually, wasn't the University of Georgia critiscized for "helping" the college basketball players by giving them an exam a pre-schooler could easily handle. That does intimidate me also, I think we are at an advantage though, since we have 16.2 million dollars of cap space, cutting dead weight like Ryan Sims certainly helped the cause. I think we are fine in terms of cap space, granted that is without our day one picks, our "franchise" kicker and our sixth round takcle..oh, and LJ... see article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-caproom062907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I assume that if he gets drafted out of the 3rd round, he'd want "3rd round money". I'm not sure if he'd warrant that, especially since we know he'd be sitting behind Ty Law and Surtain for at least a year. Perhaps your right, since we don't have an extra third round pick to burn, we could use that extra fifth(from the dolphins) to pick up a medium risk, high reward CB.....

BPhilb
07-09-2007, 09:19 PM
Yea, that might explain what happened to me, at the time I was big, tall and lanky and had trouble remembering plays, etc. Sadly, I was also a horrible student, but I can nullify that since I just graduated(with honors) from college....I digress.
Actually, wasn't the University of Georgia critiscized for "helping" the college basketball players by giving them an exam a pre-schooler could easily handle. That does intimidate me also, I think we are at an advantage though, since we have 16.2 million dollars of cap space, cutting dead weight like Ryan Sims certainly helped the cause. I think we are fine in terms of cap space, granted that is without our day one picks, our "franchise" kicker and our sixth round takcle..oh, and LJ... see article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-caproom062907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I assume that if he gets drafted out of the 3rd round, he'd want "3rd round money". I'm not sure if he'd warrant that, especially since we know he'd be sitting behind Ty Law and Surtain for at least a year. Perhaps your right, since we don't have an extra third round pick to burn, we could use that extra fifth(from the dolphins) to pick up a medium risk, high reward CB.....


As far as the cap goes, the rookie pool is different than the regular salary cap. The only way to pay him "third round money" if he in fact goes that high is to either not sign one of our lower round picks, or to guarentee them more money with a larger signing bonus thus tting us to that player for a longer amount of time. We might be able to get away with that since we are probably going to keep Medlock for a few years at least, but if he doesn't work out for some reason we would take a bigger cap hit than usual for a fifth round pick. It's not the end of the world, but it's something to keep in mind with the supplental draft.

Hermstheman83
07-10-2007, 07:50 PM
As far as the cap goes, the rookie pool is different than the regular salary cap. The only way to pay him "third round money" if he in fact goes that high is to either not sign one of our lower round picks, or to guarentee them more money with a larger signing bonus thus tting us to that player for a longer amount of time. We might be able to get away with that since we are probably going to keep Medlock for a few years at least, but if he doesn't work out for some reason we would take a bigger cap hit than usual for a fifth round pick. It's not the end of the world, but it's something to keep in mind with the supplental draft.

Wow, I did not know that. So does everyone have the same amount for the rookie salary cap? I wouldn't think so, since J.Russel is going to warrant a whole lot more money than D.Bowe(not in the long run though) also, do you know how much we have in pool? Thanks man..

BPhilb
07-10-2007, 10:59 PM
Wow, I did not know that. So does everyone have the same amount for the rookie salary cap? I wouldn't think so, since J.Russel is going to warrant a whole lot more money than D.Bowe(not in the long run though) also, do you know how much we have in pool? Thanks man..


I don't know off hand though I'm sure you can Google it. It does differ by the amount of picks you have and what those picks are. As with the regular salary cap there are always ways to get around parts of it, but it does come at a future cost. It's going to make the Browns negotiations with Brady Quinn very interesting.

Hermstheman83
07-11-2007, 02:00 PM
Yea, it says we have 3.4 million(or some figure closely related to that). That is a very good move on the NFL's part. Because that limits the sky-rocketing salaries that could happen with the hype that comes along with a guy like Calvin Johnson, or Dwayne Bowe for that matter. God I love capitalism.

That makes me wonder why franchises were so quick to trade this year, wouldn't that force the higher picked guys' to be paid less?

Anyways, since we only have 7 picks last year, our pool isn't that big. Also, I'd be more worried about guys' that we've been scouting for awhile now and signing them before a guy like Oliver. I think he's not worth the hype(no one usually is) but I definately and with you BPhilb and think he's worth a 5th rounder.

BPhilb
07-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Yea, it says we have 3.4 million(or some figure closely related to that). That is a very good move on the NFL's part. Because that limits the sky-rocketing salaries that could happen with the hype that comes along with a guy like Calvin Johnson, or Dwayne Bowe for that matter. God I love capitalism.

That makes me wonder why franchises were so quick to trade this year, wouldn't that force the higher picked guys' to be paid less?

Anyways, since we only have 7 picks last year, our pool isn't that big. Also, I'd be more worried about guys' that we've been scouting for awhile now and signing them before a guy like Oliver. I think he's not worth the hype(no one usually is) but I definately and with you BPhilb and think he's worth a 5th rounder.

Good article I came across tonight about the Chiefs and the supplemental draft. You might enjoy this.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/story/2007/7/10/202630/836

Hermstheman83
07-12-2007, 03:11 PM
Well, Perhaps this is why Carl doesn't play blackjack, he doesn't bet on consistent losers(per hand, I think the best chance of winning is like 1.5% at blackjack...not a solid investment).