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View Full Version : Best 4-3 Dline in the NFL revisited


bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 03:18 PM
I said during training camp that I felt that the Baltimore dline was the best in the league. I felt that their thickness against the run coupled with their great pass rush, versatily, and zone blitzing ability of their DEs makes them the best.

Other popular choices included of course the Panthers, Falcons, Jaguars, and Bears. I felt that the Jags had the 2nd best dline, with potential to be the best depending on what Hayward did this year.

I still feel that the Jags have the 2nd best dline, even though Hayward went down, and still believe that Baltimore has the best.

Has anyone changed their views on the best dline since TC? Let's see who wins it now that we've seen basically an entire season of tape.

remix 6
12-15-2006, 03:28 PM
okay and Patriots dont get mentioned? Seymour-Wilork-Warren?

bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 03:31 PM
okay and Patriots dont get mentioned? Seymour-Wilork-Warren?

We've gone over this before, 3-4 teams don't count. If anything, they deserve a separate thread, theres no way a 3 downlinemen front can be more dominant than 4 downlinemen. Its just impossible.

Ravens1991
12-15-2006, 03:35 PM
I think that Ravens have the most versatile, but I am not sure about the best, I had Panthers as the #1 in pre-season but I am undecided now.

12-15-2006, 03:35 PM
IIRC, before the season I said the Panthers. While they have played quite well, Baltimore and Jacksonville have surpassed them in my opinon. I'll say Jacksonville but you really can't go wrong with either one.

SFbear
12-15-2006, 03:36 PM
Just starting four, or are we considering depth here.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 03:39 PM
Just starting four, or are we considering depth here.

hmm...good question. I guess starting 4, since depth would only complicate the discussion.

12-15-2006, 03:40 PM
Just starting four, or are we considering depth here.

I assume starters only.

HawkeyeFan
12-15-2006, 03:47 PM
Vikings anyone?

SFbear
12-15-2006, 03:48 PM
When healthy I thought the Falcons line was playing pretty well. Im not sure if I should hold injury histories of players like John Abraham and Kris Jenkins against them since ability doesnt mean anything if youre not on the field.

Ravens1991
12-15-2006, 03:56 PM
Vikings anyone?


pav??

bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 03:57 PM
When healthy I thought the Falcons line was playing pretty well. Im not sure if I should hold injury histories of players like John Abraham and Kris Jenkins against them since ability doesnt mean anything if youre not on the field.

I don't know, a healthy John Abraham is just as big of a question mark as a healthy Lavar Arrington. I don't know if we can classify their dline as the best.

Also, the panthers dline has been healthy all year and really hasn't stood out over the Jags or Ravens or Bears dline, im actually quite surprised that the Panthers are still winning this poll.

I guess alot of people still have manwood for Peppers.

12-15-2006, 03:57 PM
Vikings anyone?

They have great tackles but they're ends aren't that good.

duckseason
12-15-2006, 03:59 PM
Vikings anyone?


pav??

He's got a point though. That Vikings line is hella underrated. I'd put them over the Falcons.

12-15-2006, 04:00 PM
Vikings anyone?


pav?? :lol: Draftguru152

Ravens1991
12-15-2006, 04:00 PM
it was a joke but I do think the vikings have a good one.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 04:01 PM
Vikings anyone?


pav??

He's got a point though. That Vikings line is hella underrated. I'd put them over the Falcons.

Agreed. Vikings dline is underrated. I gotta see more of their ends before I put them ahead of the Ravens, Bears, or Jags though. But definately underrated.

I shouldve put them on the list since I put Atlanta on the list. I guess I forgot since Minny wasn't a mentioned dline during TC.

Vikings Fan
12-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Vikings anyone?


well when Erasmus comes back that should help our ends but who knows how well he plays when he comes back? Also Pat Williams is probably our best Defensive Player and yet he is old and bound to be gone soon, we need a replacement. Maybe we could be the best in 2 years but not now.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2006, 04:06 PM
Vikings anyone?


well when Erasmus comes back that should help our ends but who knows how well he plays when he comes back? Also Pat Williams is probably our best Defensive Player and yet he is old and bound to be gone soon, we need a replacement. Maybe we could be the best in 2 years but not now.

I actually like Kevin Williams the best. Pat is gonna be hard to replace.

Vikings Fan
12-15-2006, 04:08 PM
Vikings anyone?


well when Erasmus comes back that should help our ends but who knows how well he plays when he comes back? Also Pat Williams is probably our best Defensive Player and yet he is old and bound to be gone soon, we need a replacement. Maybe we could be the best in 2 years but not now.

I actually like Kevin Williams the best. Pat is gonna be hard to replace.

Its close, but if you watch a Vikings game you can easily see that not only is Pat a force in the middle but much of Kevin's success is a result of Pat demanding double teams. It couldnt be a better tandem.

cunningham06
12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
I've said it once and I'll say it again, it's gotta be Baltimore. Baltimore's defense is the most versatile I've seen in years so many of the players can play another defensive position at a high level, and some like Adalius Thomas can play 2 other defensive positions. I like the Ravens for the best defensive line.

12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Who would you rather have? Stroud and Henderson or Pat and Kevin Williams?

draftguru151
12-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Vikings anyone?


pav?? :lol: Draftguru152

That was funny for a minute and then got really old really fast.

Shiver
12-15-2006, 04:37 PM
It's between Jacksonville and Baltimore, no one else even comes close.

BlindSite
12-15-2006, 04:38 PM
I gotta go with Carolina, call me a homer whatever, but there's the best Defensive end in the league with two mammoth defense tackles and third and fourth who could be starters elsewhere rotating in.

If our offense could sustain a drive and our linebackers were a little better on the weakside and in the middle they'd be completely dominant. Lets not forget Carolina leads the league in forcing opponents to go three and out, the reason for that is the Dline shutting down the run and getting pressure.

CC.SD
12-15-2006, 04:56 PM
It's between Jacksonville and Baltimore, no one else even comes close.

It's a 3-4 scheme so they don't mentioned very often, but I don't know if I'd want anyone besides Igor Olshansky, Jamal Williams, and Luis Castillo. They are all absolute beasts, and a big reason why our linebackers get to fly around all day.

Finsfan79
12-15-2006, 05:03 PM
dolphins dont get mentioned even?

12-15-2006, 05:04 PM
dolphins dont get mentioned even?
What's wrong with that?

Number 10
12-15-2006, 05:05 PM
It's between Jacksonville and Baltimore, no one else even comes close.

It's a 3-4 scheme so they don't mentioned very often, but I don't know if I'd want anyone besides Igor Olshansky, Jamal Williams, and Luis Castillo. They are all absolute beasts, and a big reason why our linebackers get to fly around all day.

I was thinking the same thing. Williams is the best interior defensive lineman in the league. But when comparing 3-4 and 4-3 fronts, it's just comparing apples and oranges because the roles are so different. You'd have to make two seperate polls....best 4-3 line and best 3-4 line.

12-15-2006, 05:21 PM
When the Jags are healthy they are the best by far Stroud, Henderson, Hayward, Spicer

Eaglez.Fan
12-15-2006, 05:25 PM
The Eagles have to be considered next year when Kearse is healthy, Trent Cole is the best back-up DE statistically. He was even better than half the starting DE's in the league when he was a back-up. Darren Howard is a monster, if any of u watch the Philly games. Patterson is getting better. Walker is good Bunkley will be better. Seriously, in no homerness Philly has a top 3 d-line next year

Tubby
12-15-2006, 05:26 PM
Theyre not the best, but no seahawks option offends me

12-15-2006, 05:29 PM
Theyre not the best, but no seahawks option offends me
It shouldn't

Splat
12-15-2006, 05:29 PM
Da Bears when 100%

Splat
12-15-2006, 05:31 PM
Theyre not the best, but no seahawks option offends me

Why you your self a Hawks fan said they are not the best why put them on the poll?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-15-2006, 05:33 PM
I said the Falcons before the season, but obviously injuries have derailed that. I was reluctant to say Baltimore partlly because we didn't know how Pryce and Ngata would do, but I guess they're doing well enough, so I'd probly say them.

Tubby
12-15-2006, 06:11 PM
Theyre not the best, but no seahawks option offends me
It shouldn't

We led the league in sacks last year with the same D-line we have this year (minus Russell Davis)

12-15-2006, 06:11 PM
Theyre not the best, but no seahawks option offends me
It shouldn't

We led the league in sacks last year with the same D-line we have this year (minus Russell Davis)

Same players but they haven't done even close to as well.

dRaFtDoRk
12-15-2006, 06:24 PM
I think at this point you have to vote for the Ravens. The Bears have too many problems at this point. And to be honest, Tommie Harris sort of disappeared after around Week 5 or 6 this season.

The Ravens are built very well and have youth and expierence at the same time.

Whoever said that the Dolphins need to be at least mentioned, I totally agree with you.

CM4
12-15-2006, 07:14 PM
Chargers LEAD NFL in sacks...DLINE is a reason for that..

Jonathan_VIlma
12-15-2006, 07:39 PM
I'll take a healthy Jacksonville Jaguars, since it's tough to consider Baltimore a 4-3 defense since they give so many different looks.

As far as the Chargers go, their OLB's account for 23 of their sacks. While they do have a great defensive line, none of them are sack artists. Their front three only account for 9.5 of that league leading sack total.

The Jaguars have the best two defensive tackles in the game, not to mention they make an average Nick Greisen, a Daryl Smith who hasn't played MIKE and a rookie Clint Ingram into a top front seven defense.

JT Jag
12-15-2006, 07:40 PM
When the Jags are healthy they are the best by far Stroud, Henderson, Hayward, SpicerNow it'd be

RE - McCray (Will top double-digit sacks this year. Would be in Pro Bowl discussion if he had started from Week 2)
DT - Stroud
DT - Henderson
LE - Hayward

Players in the rotation:

Rob Meier (Classic DT/DE rotation player)
Paul Spicer (Has started for the team for a few years, and will help depth by subbing in during obvious run plays)

JT Jag
12-15-2006, 07:41 PM
I'll take a healthy Jacksonville Jaguars, since it's tough to consider Baltimore a 4-3 defense since they give so many different looks.

As far as the Chargers go, their OLB's account for 23 of their sacks. While they do have a great defensive line, none of them are sack artists. Their front three only account for 9.5 of that league leading sack total.

The Jaguars have the best two defensive tackles in the game, not to mention they make an average Nick Greisen, a Daryl Smith who hasn't played MIKE and a rookie Clint Ingram into a top front seven defense.MIKE is Daryl Smith's natural position.

Still, your points are good.

The Unseen
12-15-2006, 07:52 PM
I feel as bigblue does. Balt #1, Jax #2.

Bobby McCray has actually turned into a very good rush end now that he's starting (not like he wasn't when he was a 3rd down guy). If Hayward can get back and healthy, the line could be pretty dang good with McCray, Stroud, Big John, and Hayward, along with quality guys in Paul Spicer and Rob Meier to get time.

jkpigskin
12-15-2006, 08:15 PM
the ravens DLine is unbelievably versatile and their best Dlinmen may be one of the most underrated and underapreciated player in the leauge --> kelly gregg... he is so strong and so smart. He is always clogging up the middle and unlike other DT's who dont get tackles, he can suck up blocks and get tackles.... he is trully an elite DT

others on the DLine help compliment everyone else....
-Rookie Haloti Ngata is still learning but he is sucking up blocks extremely well... his tackle #'s are also getting better
-Terrell Suggs- a true pass rusher with great acceleration... he is a force at forcing fumbles
-Trevor Pryce- a great surprise as many saw him as past his prime... he has reached double digit sacks because of his combination of size, strength, and surprising acceleration

draftguru151
12-15-2006, 09:06 PM
Doesn't Baltimore run a 3-4 as well? At least part time.

Bradentonian
12-15-2006, 10:55 PM
I'm surprised Oakland hasn't been mentioned.

Nitschke-Hawk
12-15-2006, 10:56 PM
Anybody who thinks it's the Bears line them up against a power running team with a decent o line and they get plowed over, and I'm not basing this off of what I believe it's the truth. If we're basing a lartge part of this off of sacks-of their 32 sacks from the defensive line, 10 have came from Mark Anderson, a back up defensive end who's a good player but atleast half of those have came in garbage time, I believe two against Arizona, one of which the Right Tackle didn't even look his way to block him, went untouched. In my opinion quite possibly the most easy sacks by any player I've ever seen and to me that doesn't do anything for the caliber of a team's defensive line. And I vote Baltimore.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-16-2006, 12:57 AM
The Ravens have 22 ints this year and are currently #1 in total defense.
They win.

niel89
12-16-2006, 02:32 AM
well i say baltimore but its hard to tell because they use so many fronts

12-16-2006, 06:49 AM
How the hell haven't the Colts been mentioned?

The Unseen
12-16-2006, 07:46 AM
How the hell haven't the Colts been mentioned?

:lol:

jkpigskin
12-16-2006, 07:51 AM
Doesn't Baltimore run a 3-4 as well? At least part time.

we run a 4-3, 3-4, 46 and a one linemen set :shock:

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-16-2006, 10:45 AM
IMO when it comes to not applying any pressure, and doing a satisfactory job in the run game, Denver is second to none.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2006, 11:18 AM
IMO when it comes to not applying any pressure, and doing a satisfactory job in the run game, Denver is second to none.

The front 4? The Denver Front 4 is average against the pass, above average against the run. Its your LB core that makes your defense good, not your line.

Im still shocked that Carolina got so many votes. How are they tied with Jacksonville? Jacksonville definately has a better line than Carolina.

Too much manwood for Peppers on this board, seriously.

Number 10
12-16-2006, 11:26 AM
IMO when it comes to not applying any pressure, and doing a satisfactory job in the run game, Denver is second to none.

The front 4? The Denver Front 4 is average against the pass, above average against the run. Its your LB core that makes your defense good, not your line.

Im still shocked that Carolina got so many votes. How are they tied with Jacksonville? Jacksonville definately has a better line than Carolina.

Too much manwood for Peppers on this board, seriously.

And to think of what the Panthers fans said about him that sat in front of me last week against the Giants. (It was music to my ears)

dcarey20
12-16-2006, 11:29 AM
T Pryce - H Ngata - K Gregg - T Sizzle

tough to beat that....

The Unseen
12-16-2006, 11:41 AM
IMO when it comes to not applying any pressure, and doing a satisfactory job in the run game, Denver is second to none.

The front 4? The Denver Front 4 is average against the pass, above average against the run. Its your LB core that makes your defense good, not your line.

Im still shocked that Carolina got so many votes. How are they tied with Jacksonville? Jacksonville definately has a better line than Carolina.

Too much manwood for Peppers on this board, seriously.

He's joking.

AdrianWilson12
12-16-2006, 12:14 PM
I'd actually say Minnesota is the best, slightly ahead of Jacksonville and Baltimore.

Them and Jacksonville have by far the best DT combo, but the Williams combo complement each other better than Stroud and Henderson.

Edwards, Udeze, James and Scott are a good combo of ends, all of which are young and should become a lot better. Edwards is looking good for a rookie, Scott is doing quite well on passing downs and Udeze looks better on run defence. James has been injured but he has the potential to be a good end, given he was a 1st rounder.

Minnesotas Dline is the main reason why they are only giving up about 60 rushing yards a game, and although their pass defence has been less stellar, I wouldn't blame that on their Dline who do put pressure on the QB.

bearsfan_51
12-16-2006, 01:08 PM
Vikings anyone?


well when Erasmus comes back that should help our ends but who knows how well he plays when he comes back? Also Pat Williams is probably our best Defensive Player and yet he is old and bound to be gone soon, we need a replacement. Maybe we could be the best in 2 years but not now.Kenechi Udeze is garbage, and you have really no idea if James will be very good either.

I agree the DT's are at the very least the second best tandum in the league though.

Star Wideout
12-16-2006, 01:19 PM
I agree that the Panthers front 4 is fairly over-rated...they have the big names and can be dominant...

but in the games I saw they disappear for LARGE stretches at a time...yes even Peppers..

maybe it's the offenses inability to keep the Defense off the field as long (one of worst 3rd down conversion rates in the NFL) but their D-line has only had 1 truly dominating game this year...and that was the 15-0 shutout of St.Louis...when they had Bynum and Morton at CB.

ccB
12-16-2006, 01:56 PM
Doesn't Baltimore run a 3-4 as well? At least part time.We've started the last few games in a 3-4.


DE- Trevor Pryce
DT- Kelly Gregg
DE- Haloti Ngata

OLB Terrell Suggs
ILB Ray Lewis
ILB Bart Scott
OLB Adalius Thomas

draftguru151
12-16-2006, 02:57 PM
It's between Jacksonville and Baltimore, no one else even comes close.

It's a 3-4 scheme so they don't mentioned very often, but I don't know if I'd want anyone besides Igor Olshansky, Jamal Williams, and Luis Castillo. They are all absolute beasts, and a big reason why our linebackers get to fly around all day.

I was thinking the same thing. Williams is the best interior defensive lineman in the league. But when comparing 3-4 and 4-3 fronts, it's just comparing apples and oranges because the roles are so different. You'd have to make two seperate polls....best 4-3 line and best 3-4 line.

I think the Patriots have an argument for best 3-4 DL. It is close though.

BlindSite
12-16-2006, 04:21 PM
I agree that the Panthers front 4 is fairly over-rated...they have the big names and can be dominant...

but in the games I saw they disappear for LARGE stretches at a time...yes even Peppers..

maybe it's the offenses inability to keep the Defense off the field as long (one of worst 3rd down conversion rates in the NFL) but their D-line has only had 1 truly dominating game this year...and that was the 15-0 shutout of St.Louis...when they had Bynum and Morton at CB.

You really need to do some watching of games chief, that front four is dominant until about half way through the third qtr when exhaustion sets in.

Carolina leads the league in sending opponents to three and out... THAT is a direct result of the defensive line, the offense isn't holding up its end of the bargain. Jenkins and Kemoeatu are as good as any tandem in the league, Peppers alone puts them in jacksonville territory let alone rucker as well.

As for Pep disappearing, that's ********, he's got two or three guys on him every play of every series. Even then he's almost always held, if the officials took their eyes off the QBs and watched the line like they should, they'd call it a lot more.

That's something all teams are having problems with, a lot of other fouls are being missed because officials are watching QBs, not the rest of the play.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2006, 04:24 PM
I agree that the Panthers front 4 is fairly over-rated...they have the big names and can be dominant...

but in the games I saw they disappear for LARGE stretches at a time...yes even Peppers..

maybe it's the offenses inability to keep the Defense off the field as long (one of worst 3rd down conversion rates in the NFL) but their D-line has only had 1 truly dominating game this year...and that was the 15-0 shutout of St.Louis...when they had Bynum and Morton at CB.

You really need to do some watching of games chief, that front four is dominant until about half way through the third qtr when exhaustion sets in.

Carolina leads the league in sending opponents to three and out... THAT is a direct result of the defensive line, the offense isn't holding up its end of the bargain. Jenkins and Kemoeatu are as good as any tandem in the league, Peppers alone puts them in jacksonville teritory let alone rucker as well.

The problem I have with your line is the fact that they disappear for long periods of time. They can be unstoppable one game, then very average the next.

Peppers is a perfect example of this. At the beginning of the year he was on fire and everyone was sucking him off. Since then he's been very quiet and so has the manwood. I think its an elite line, just not the best. I put Baltimore and Jacksonville ahead of them.

I also don't know if Jenkins is the same Jenkins of 3 years ago. He just doesn't have the explosion that he used to, thus making him overrated by many. Rucker is getting older, and Kemeatu is great, but overall I think the line as a whole is fairly overrated.

Pit Bull #53
12-16-2006, 06:55 PM
Doesn't Baltimore run a 3-4 as well? At least part time.We've started the last few games in a 3-4.


DE- Trevor Pryce
DT- Kelly Gregg
DE- Haloti Ngata

OLB Terrell Suggs
ILB Ray Lewis
ILB Bart Scott
OLB Adalius Thomas

That's what makes the Ravens D so good. You can use that 3-4 look, and in the basic 4-3 look you can go

DE- Pryce
DT- Ngata
DT- Gregg
DE- Suggs

OLB- Scott
MLB- Lewis
OLB- Thomas

And if you want to get more of a pure pass rush, you can put Trevor Pryce inside at the 3-tech, pair him with Ngata, and then put Adalius at DE with Suggs. There's so much versatility in their front 7 that it's almost unreal.

Pit Bull #53
12-16-2006, 06:59 PM
The Saints will be in the discussion if they can find them a good DT to pair with those ends. Will Smith is a monster.

bmoreravens5289
12-16-2006, 07:31 PM
The Jaguars probably have the best pure 4-3 line, but the Ravens d-line is right up there wether they line up in 3-4 or 4-3 or a 46.