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skinzzfan25
07-08-2007, 04:40 PM
http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/10240023

I really hate Prisco, and I really hate these types of predictions. So many things can happen from here and then. Anyway, we need something new to discuss in the NFL forum.


_______________________________


We're about a month away from the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductions, the unofficial kickoff to the new NFL season.

Since we're in a dead month before the open of training camp, I thought it a good time to break down Hall of Fame prospects from among 45 active NFL stars.

For example, is Peyton Manning in no matter what happens to him the rest of the way? What about Tom Brady? Isaac Bruce? Torry Holt?

Players with at least six years of experience are the ones I considered, and I used four categories in deciding HOF verdicts for each player:

• 1. The best is "Welcome to Canton" -- they're in.
• 2. Next is "On the Bubble" -- they're close.
• 3. Then it's "Needs more Work."
• 4. "No way."

Just shy of six years are players like Baltimore Ravens safety Ed Reed, San Diego Chargers tight end Antonio Gates and Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers. They're all off to good starts, but they haven't played enough seasons to qualify for consideration here.

Enjoy the list. And, as usual, I'm prepared for those nasty replies that will tell me a lot of things. Like how many of you think my father runs CBS, which is why I have a job. Or that I have no chance to ever make it into the writer's wing of the Hall.

I'm used to all of it by now ... bring it on.

Shaun Alexander, RB, Seattle Seahawks
Decision: Needs more work.
He's 25th on the all-time rushing list, so he has a chance. He needs to bounce back with a season like he had in 2005.

Larry Allen, G, San Francisco 49ers
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
For much of the 1990s and into this decade, Allen was the best guard -- and some say offensive linemen -- in the game. He's a shoo-in.

Champ Bailey, CB, Denver Broncos
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
I think he's the best defensive player in the league, and two more years playing at the same level will give him 10. He's then a lock on all lists.

Ronde Barber, CB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Decision: No way.
His brother, Tiki, has a better chance. Ronde has been the perfect corner for the Bucs' Cover-2 scheme, but is he a great corner? I say no.

Tom Brady, QB, New England Patriots
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
Three Super Bowl rings and some big-time numbers have him in already. Scary thing is, he's far from finished.

Derrick Brooks, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He redefined the outside linebacker position, which is a sign of greatness. He made it a speed position. Plus, he's been a great player in doing so.
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Isaac Bruce, WR, St. Louis Rams
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
Bruce is seventh in catches with 887 and could get to fifth with a good season in 2007. He's seventh in receiving yards with 13,376 yards, and with 524 yards this season, he would move him into fourth place on that list. That's impressive.

Tedy Bruschi, LB, New England Patriots
Decision: No way.
He was a feisty player who helped those Patriots win three Super Bowls, but was he ever the best defensive player on the field?

Brian Dawkins, S, Philadelphia Eagles
Decision: On the bubble.
He has been one of the most-dominant safeties for a long time. But safeties have a tough time getting in, for whatever reason. If he can have a year or two like he did in 2006, he has a chance.

Warrick Dunn, RB, Atlanta Falcons
Decision: No way.
He has some nice numbers, placing him 22nd on the all-time list. But he needs two or three more good seasons for consideration.

Alan Faneca, G, Pittsburgh Steelers
Decision: Needs more work.
He's a Hall of Fame run blocker, but he hasn't been great in pass protection. He's just a notch below Hall material.

Brett Favre, QB, Green Bay Packers
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He's as easy a pick as any on the list. Favre is a football legend who happens to still be playing.

Tony Gonzalez, TE, Kansas City Chiefs
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He's the second most-prolific pass-catching tight end ever. He has allowed the Chiefs to get by without many good receivers. He's a special weapon in the middle of the field.

Marvin Harrison, WR, Indianapolis Colts
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He's fourth all time in receptions and has a lot more left. He has his eyes on the top spot and Jerry Rice.

Rodney Harrison, S, New England Patriots
Decision: On the bubble.
Some will say he should get in, but I think he's another who was just very good, but not great. Winning a Super Bowl with the Pats will help.

Torry Holt, WR, St. Louis Rams
Decision: Needs more work.
He's still relatively young and playing at a high level, so he has time to get the work done. But for whatever reason, he doesn't get the due he deserves and that may hurt down the road.

Joe Horn, WR, Atlanta Falcons
Decision: No way.
He was a nice player, but not a Hall of Fame player. Was he ever one of the league's truly great receivers?

Steve Hutchinson, G, Minnesota Vikings
Decision: Needs more work.
He's been one of the best guards in football -- and the best at times -- the past five years, but he needs more time to show he can sustain it.

Edgerrin James, RB, Arizona Cardinals
Decision: Needs more work.
He's over 10,000 yards, but I still think he needs more work. He better hope 2006 was an aberration and was more about the Cardinals' line than his abilities.

Chad Johnson, WR, Cincinnati Bengals
Decision: Needs more work.
He has 466 catches in his first six seasons, and has averaged over 90 each of the past four seasons. He would need to do that for another five to seven seasons to be considered.

Walter Jones, T, Seattle Seahawks
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
For the past seven years, he has been the best offensive lineman in the league. That's high praise.

Ty Law, CB, Kansas City Chiefs
Decision: On the bubble.
Some people will say he's a candidate, but I don't think he will get in. He's been a nice player, but not a great one.

Ray Lewis, LB, Baltimore Ravens
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
There is no doubt about it. He's been the best middle linebacker in the league for a long, long time.

John Lynch, S, Denver Broncos
Decision: On the bubble.
A lot of people will say he should go in, but I think he's been a good, not great player. There have been a handful of better safeties in the league his entire NFL career.

Peyton Manning, QB, Indianapolis Colts
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
No matter what he does the rest of his career Manning will be in the Hall. Even without the Super Bowl, he was on his way. Now he's a lock.

Kevin Mawae, C, Tennessee Titans
Decision: No way.
He's been a damn good center, but he probably isn't going to get in. He'll get considered, but he'll probably miss out.

Keenan McCardell, WR, Unsigned
Decision: Needs more work.
He is ninth all time with 861 catches, but he's done so mostly out of the spotlight. He did win a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay, which will help. He says he wants to play until he gets 1,000 catches. If that happens, who knows?
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Donovan McNabb, QB, Philadelphia Eagles
Decision: Needs more work.
He's been a good quarterback, but has he ever been the best in the NFL? He hasn't done enough yet, and needs some big years to get there.

Steve McNair, QB, Baltimore Ravens
Decision: No way.
Even though he won co-MVP honors with Manning in 2003 -- how that happened is a whole different story -- he hasn't done enough.

Randy Moss, WR, New England Patriots
Decision: Needs more work.
I've seen some opinions that no matter what he does, he can't get in because he quit on his team. That's crazy. If he can revert to the old Moss, and put up big numbers for a few more years, he deserves to get in.

Jonathan Ogden, T, Baltimore Ravens
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
Even though his play has slipped some, and he was never better than Jacksonville's Tony Boselli despite what some people might think, he's on his way to getting a gold jacket.

Terrell Owens, WR, Dallas Cowboys
Decision: On the bubble.
Some might be surprised to see him here, but he's 17th all time in receptions with 801 and he's 16th in yards receiving with 11,715 yards. With a good season, he can move into the top-10 in both categories. Forget the attitude, he's had a heck of a career.

Orlando Pace, T, St. Louis Rams
Decision: On the bubble.
He wasn't as good as Ogden and he's not as good as Jones. But he's been a heck of a player for a long time.

Simeon Rice, DE, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Decision: Needs more work.
He's put up some amazing sack numbers, but the perception is he hasn't played the run well during his career, which he's fought hard to change. He needs two or three more big sack years. Does he have it in him?

Warren Sapp, DT, Oakland Raiders
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He might be the surliest player in the league -- how was he left off Freeman's All-Jerk squad? -- but he was a dominant inside player for a long time. Like him or not, he should go in.

Richard Seymour, DE, New England Patriots
Decision: Needs more work.
He's the best defensive player on the Patriots, and has been for some time. I think he's two good years away from being in.

Rod Smith, WR, Denver Broncos
Decision: On the bubble.
He has the numbers, but was he ever a truly great player? His numbers will carry a lot of weight when it's his time, but it's going to be a tough sell.

Mike Strahan, DE, New York Giants
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He's been a dominant player for a long time, but is he in the Bruce Smith-Reggie White class? He's not, but he's the all-time sack leader. Plus, the media likes him. He'll get in.

Fred Taylor, RB, Jacksonville Jaguars
Decision: Needs more work.
He is closing in on 10,000 yards and has one of the best per-carry averages of all the leading rushers in league history. But he needs one or two more good years for consideration.

Jason Taylor, DE, Miami Dolphins
Decision: On the bubble.
Taylor has been a heck of a player, and winning Defensive Player of the Year honors in 2006 will help, but he needs a couple more big sack years to have a chance.

Zach Thomas, LB, Miami Dolphins
Decision: No way.
He was a good player but overrated at times. He's in the Hall of Good, but not the Hall of Fame.

LaDainian Tomlinson, RB, San Diego Chargers
Decision: On the bubble.
If he has another LT-like season in 2007, he's in. So it's basically just a formality. He's halfway to the rushing record.

Brian Urlacher, LB, Chicago Bears
Decision: Needs more work.
He's got a good start, but he has a long way to go to be a Hall of Fame player. Then again, the lineage of his middle linebacker spot with the Bears is a good one.

Adam Vinatieri, K, Indianapolis Colts
Decision: On the bubble.
It's tough to get kickers into the Hall, but his clutch kicking for the Patriots, helping them to three Super Bowl victories, will help. Also, he's far from done.

Kurt Warner, QB, Arizona Cardinals
Decision: No way.
Despite being a two-time MVP, Warner's success was too short. But he should go into the Good-guy Hall of Fame.

(Note: Kicker Morten Andersen, G Will Shields and RB Curtis Martin were not included in the list since they are all likely finished playing. P.S.: They're all probably on their way to being elected.)

skinzzfan25
07-08-2007, 04:44 PM
Just realized two Prisco things on the 1st page...

-.- I hate the offseason.

Green Bay Scat
07-08-2007, 05:18 PM
how is LT not in yet? hes about a lock after next year lol. Pace can go in, Ronde Barber was just as important as Brooks for the Tampa 2 defense and revolutionized the CB position and is the only 20 sacks/20 int guy in history, and maybe there wont be another. Ty Law? Hall of Fame, maybe 3rd try. Dawkins? First Ballet. Lynch? 2nd/3rd Ballet

255979119
07-08-2007, 05:22 PM
how is LT not in yet? hes about a lock after next year lol. Pace can go in, Ronde Barber was just as important as Brooks for the Tampa 2 defense and revolutionized the CB position and is the only 20 sacks/20 int guy in history, and maybe there wont be another. Ty Law? Hall of Fame, maybe 3rd try. Dawkins? First Ballet. Lynch? 2nd/3rd Ballet

20 sacks by a CB yes. Harrison leads all DB's in sacks. But, a man named Adub will probably break that record.

BigDawg819
07-08-2007, 05:24 PM
Truthfully his analysis and predictions are pretty much right on.

Smooth Criminal
07-08-2007, 05:32 PM
I agree with most of these. I don't think Ray Lewis is a shoe in but that is probably just because I hate him with a passion and wish him nothing but the worst.

:)

BigDawg819
07-08-2007, 05:36 PM
I agree with most of these. I don't think Ray Lewis is a shoe in but that is probably just because I hate him with a passion and wish him nothing but the worst.

:)

Don't worry we all know your wrong about Ray! :D BTW Ravens' fans feel the same way about the Steelers too. ;) Is Big Ben still having nightmares about Bart Scott? :D

nvot9
07-08-2007, 05:41 PM
How the hell...nevermind, Prisco's a ******* dumbass. I think I'm gunna send him a "I hate you" letter tonight..

Mr. Stiller
07-08-2007, 06:05 PM
I don't agree with Faneca not being a lock for Canton..

He's a top 2 G in the league.. only with Hutchinson really pushing him. In his prime he was the best. Sure his pass blocking isn't #1, but he's an All-Pro, has a ring, 6+ Pro-Bowls... oh and he was the best for... how many seasons? 4-5?

etk
07-08-2007, 06:25 PM
WOW!! 2 threads for Pete Prisco, just wow. How does he have any sort of credibility to spark discussion here. Just ignore the "brilliance" that he thinks and types.

Smooth Criminal
07-08-2007, 07:44 PM
Don't worry we all know your wrong about Ray! :D BTW Ravens' fans feel the same way about the Steelers too. ;) Is Big Ben still having nightmares about Bart Scott? :D

No. That mini van that hit him scares him much more than Bart Scott.

And I don't feel that way about all Ravens, just the overrated ones that are also murderers.

Where was Ray Lewis when Joey Porter got shot?

BigDawg819
07-08-2007, 08:03 PM
No. That mini van that hit him scares him much more than Bart Scott.

And I don't feel that way about all Ravens, just the overrated ones that are also murderers.

Where was Ray Lewis when Joey Porter got shot?


Wow thats almost funny. Never heard a joke like that before...... :rolleyes: Here's a news flash for you, he didn't do it; if he did he would be in jail like Rae Carruth. Get over old stuff pal.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-08-2007, 08:03 PM
I actually agree with most of them, and my disagreements are all minor enough, like one level.

Hines
07-08-2007, 08:24 PM
i believe that he is wrong about harrison and law.harrison if not injured would still be playing strong and be on his way to hof career.i mean he already is one of the hardest hitters at the saftey position and he has the rep as the dirtiest player(which he is not).i say hes a lock.plus doesnt he have like 3 rings in like how many 5 tries.


law is like mel blount jr because they made the rule all over again about the five yard chuck because of how physical he played against the colts recievers and man handled brady.he was the best corner in his prime and the same goes to law as did harrison,if he didnt get hurt hed still be just as good.

remix 6
07-08-2007, 08:27 PM
Ty Law a nice player..not great? Law was arguably 1 of the best CBs of the late 90s and 2000's

until the rule..the man was better than Bailey. His post season INTs and 2 SB rings should get him in

idk how Bailey: Welcome To Canton while Law: on the bubble

cardsalltheway
07-08-2007, 08:29 PM
i believe that he is wrong about harrison and law.harrison if not injured would still be playing strong and be on his way to hof career.i mean he already is one of the hardest hitters at the saftey position and he has the rep as the dirtiest player(which he is not).i say hes a lock.plus doesnt he have like 3 rings in like how many 5 tries.


law is like mel blount jr because they made the rule all over again about the five yard chuck because of how physical he played against the colts recievers and man handled brady.he was the best corner in his prime and the same goes to law as did harrison,if he didnt get hurt hed still be just as good.

You can't play the "If he didn't get hurt" card when dealing with the Hall of Fame. If the player didn't produce, they shouldn't get in. No excuses. It should be a place that only the best of the best get into, not just every player that was good for a few years.

And they didn't change any rule because of Law. They simply had refs look for it more because they had been letting it go.

Rings don't and shouldn't mean anything for any position other than QB

BamaFalcon59
07-08-2007, 08:29 PM
That Tampa Bay defense was amazing. 5 possible Hall of Famers.

- Derrick Brooks
- Warren Sapp
- Ronde Barber
- John Lynch
- Simeon Rice

remix 6
07-08-2007, 08:34 PM
You can't play the "If he didn't get hurt" card when dealing with the Hall of Fame. If the player didn't produce, they shouldn't get in. No excuses. It should be a place that only the best of the best get into, not just every player that was good for a few years.

And they didn't change any rule because of Law. They simply had refs look for it more because they had been letting it go.

Rings don't and shouldn't mean anything for any position other than QB

well if Dawkins has a shot of getting in, then Rodney must get in. i like both players...both are great leaders, physical and fearless players

Harrison is 2 years older i believe but has only played 11 games more
-313 more tackles
-10.5 more sacks
-same amount of INTs
-2 SB rings

Dawkins has more deflections and FF

i know stats dont mean a lot to some people but theres no other way to really look at it because both have been impact players with a lot of heart.

Paul
07-08-2007, 08:41 PM
That Tampa Bay defense was amazing. 5 possible Hall of Famers.

- Derrick Brooks
- Warren Sapp
- Ronde Barber
- John Lynch
- Simeon Rice

I forgot how unbelievably talented that defense was. I mean if you add solid players like Mcfarland, Spires, and Brian Kelly around those big names, WOW.

kmartin575
07-08-2007, 09:09 PM
I don't agree with Faneca not being a lock for Canton..

He's a top 2 G in the league.. only with Hutchinson really pushing him. In his prime he was the best. Sure his pass blocking isn't #1, but he's an All-Pro, has a ring, 6+ Pro-Bowls... oh and he was the best for... how many seasons? 4-5?

He never even compared to Will Shields or Larry Allen, the two best guards throughout the 90's and into this decade.

Green Bay Scat
07-08-2007, 09:25 PM
well if Dawkins has a shot of getting in, then Rodney must get in. i like both players...both are great leaders, physical and fearless players

Harrison is 2 years older i believe but has only played 11 games more
-313 more tackles
-10.5 more sacks
-same amount of INTs
-2 SB rings

Dawkins has more deflections and FF

i know stats dont mean a lot to some people but theres no other way to really look at it because both have been impact players with a lot of heart.

i think harrison should go in, but u have to remember, Dawkins is a FS Harrison is a SS, to completly different positions, the chagers us to have him up in the box a lot so he was able to make a lot of tackles/TFL/sacks, while dawkins is best at pass coverage/disrupting the ballcarrier or catcher. I think they're both 1st/2nd, but i still think Monk needs to go in the HoF before anyone else does.

Brodeur
07-08-2007, 09:45 PM
What's Prisco's grudge against Orlando Pace? He doesn't put him in the top 6 tackles and now he's on the bubble for the hall of fame?

elway777
07-08-2007, 09:46 PM
What's Prisco's grudge against Orlando Pace? He doesn't put him in the top 6 tackles and now he's on the bubble for the hall of fame?

Its your birthday, and you can cry if you want to.

Brodeur
07-08-2007, 09:47 PM
Its your birthday, and you can cry if you want to.

If it helps, I don't even like Orlando Pace. I'm just saying.

elway777
07-08-2007, 09:49 PM
If it helps, I don't even like Orlando Pace. I'm just saying.


I was trying to bring up your apparent birthday actually.

BamaFalcon59
07-08-2007, 09:49 PM
I forgot how unbelievably talented that defense was. I mean if you add solid players like Mcfarland, Spires, and Brian Kelly around those big names, WOW.

Shelton Quarles too. Dwight Smith was a good player. Insane defense.

Brodeur
07-08-2007, 09:55 PM
I was trying to bring up your apparent birthday actually.

I'm sorry, thanks.

Anyways, one more problem I have is saying Fred Taylor needs more work. I just don't honestly see Fred Taylor in the HOF at all, as good as he's been. Same with Keenan McCardell.

Acreboy
07-08-2007, 10:17 PM
No to Zach Thomas!?!?!?!?

Orlando Pace on the bubble?!?!?!?

SuperMcGee
07-08-2007, 10:24 PM
Mike Strahan, DE, New York Giants
Decision: Welcome to Canton.
He's been a dominant player for a long time, but is he in the Bruce Smith-Reggie White class? He's not, but he's the all-time sack leader. Plus, the media likes him. He'll get in.

Uhhh, what?

Go_Eagles77
07-08-2007, 10:36 PM
It says about McNabb, "but has he ever been the best in the NFL?", its kinda hard to do that with Manning and Brady also in the league at the same time. But I agree, he still needs more work, and hopefully a SB ring. That would help Dawk too but I think he has a better chance than Donovan right now.

yourfavestoner
07-08-2007, 10:50 PM
I actually think this is one of the best articles Prisco has ever done. People take for granted how freakin' hard it is to get into the Hall of Fame.

MasterShake
07-08-2007, 11:10 PM
Not even a mention of Bryant Young? I know he probably won't make it, but he at least deserves a mention...

WMD
07-09-2007, 12:07 AM
I'd think Adam Vinatieri is a lock for the Hall of Fame.. One of the most, if not THE most clutch kicker of all time, has Superbowl Winning kicks.. What more could you ask for?

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 12:08 AM
Seriously, does Walter Jones pay Prisco to hype him up and put down Pace? Best OL for the last 7 years? Are you kidding me?

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 12:37 AM
Oh boy..another person that knows that Zach Thomas doesn't have a chance in hell of making the HOF. Maybe a few 100 more and Dolphins fans will start listening to me.

I think if Urlacher can win another MVP he's a lock. I don't know of any 2-time MVP that isn't in the HOF. Either way as long as he stays healthy he's in.

I don't see Issac Bruce as a HOF lock at all. Is he borderline? Sure. But he hasn't been the best WR on his own team in many many years and at no point was he ever the best offensive player on his team.

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 12:38 AM
I'm sorry, thanks.

Anyways, one more problem I have is saying Fred Taylor needs more work. I just don't honestly see Fred Taylor in the HOF at all, as good as he's been. Same with Keenan McCardell.
Agreed...at this point in their careers the work they could have done is well past them. They are both no chance in hells either.

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 12:45 AM
It's also funny that Prisco notes in his other story that Kruetz is and has been the best center in the league for years, but he's not on his list. I realize that he doesn't have a great shot at making it, few interior linemen do, but come on...he's been the best for quite some time, at least put him on the list.

Geo
07-09-2007, 01:42 AM
Edgerrin James, RB, Arizona Cardinals
Decision: Needs more work.
He's over 10,000 yards, but I still think he needs more work. He better hope 2006 was an aberration and was more about the Cardinals' line than his abilities.
Edge is getting in. Before moving to the desert, he was breaking Jim Brown's yards from scrimmage per game record. He won the rushing title his first two years in the league, which is ridiculous, and was on his way to a third (and maybe even fourth) consecutive title - tremendous HOF territory - if he hadn't suffered his knee injury in 2001.

With 1000 more yards, he moves into 13th all-time in rushing yards. As he stands now, with 10385 career rushing yards, he needs 1859 to break into the Top 10 in NFL history. (http://www.profootballhof.com/history/story.jsp?story_id=2364)

He's easily among the best pass protecting RBs to have played the game, one of the best all-purpose backs of his era, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't have the best winning percentage among RBs since Roger Craig.

Orlando Pace, T, St. Louis Rams
Decision: On the bubble.
He wasn't as good as Ogden and he's not as good as Jones. But he's been a heck of a player for a long time.
Is Prisco high? Pace in his prime was better than Ogden. Jones? LOL.

Adam Vinatieri, K, Indianapolis Colts
Decision: On the bubble.
It's tough to get kickers into the Hall, but his clutch kicking for the Patriots, helping them to three Super Bowl victories, will help. Also, he's far from done.
He's in. And Vinatieri was the most clutch member of the Pats dynasty.

Dam8610
07-09-2007, 03:26 AM
I think if Urlacher can win another MVP he's a lock. I don't know of any 2-time MVP that isn't in the HOF.

Don't you have to win one MVP before you can win 2? I think you're referring to DPOY.

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 11:03 AM
Oh boy..another person that knows that Zach Thomas doesn't have a chance in hell of making the HOF. Maybe a few 100 more and Dolphins fans will start listening to me.

I think if Urlacher can win another MVP he's a lock. I don't know of any 2-time MVP that isn't in the HOF. Either way as long as he stays healthy he's in.

I don't see Issac Bruce as a HOF lock at all. Is he borderline? Sure. But he hasn't been the best WR on his own team in many many years and at no point was he ever the best offensive player on his team.

Using Prisco to support your Zach Thomas argument isn't going to persuade anyone, it might in fact hurt your argument.

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 11:07 AM
It's also funny that Prisco notes in his other story that Kruetz is and has been the best center in the league for years, but he's not on his list. I realize that he doesn't have a great shot at making it, few interior linemen do, but come on...he's been the best for quite some time, at least put him on the list.

Kruetz has been the best center for about three years, 4 at most. The guy who was better than him the other years, Mawae, Prisco says no way. If a center playing right now gets in other than Mawae, it would definitely be Kruetz, but when he says Mawae has no chance I don't see how he could even mention Kruetz.

eacantdraft
07-09-2007, 12:19 PM
This article is pretty much head on except for Orlando Pace.

People forget how much of a backlog there is for players waiting to get in. It's not going to get any better unless the NFLHOF raise the number of maximum inductees to a class.

Man_Of_Steel
07-09-2007, 12:24 PM
Hes good but not great, I think I read that every other line.

skinzzfan25
07-09-2007, 12:54 PM
I don't think any present day linemen, maybe excluding Ogden and maybe somebody else I'm forgetting should be in before Russ Grimm.... I mean, the Hogs were one of the most dominate lines ever and not one is in the hall yet.

Shiver
07-09-2007, 01:02 PM
Ty Law in '03 was every bit as good as Champ Bailey was last year. It's amazing how people forget things with time. Champ Bailey is only the best corner because Ty Law and Patrick Surtain got old, and no one else has arisen. Back in '03 it was those two, not Bailey, who were generally regarded as the best corners.

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 02:16 PM
Ty Law in '03 was every bit as good as Champ Bailey was last year. It's amazing how people forget things with time. Champ Bailey is only the best corner because Ty Law and Patrick Surtain got old, and no one else has arisen. Back in '03 it was those two, not Bailey, who were generally regarded as the best corners.

Yea I don't see how Law doesn't get in. He was the elite CB for a long time and has both the numbers and the post season accomplishments.

Shiver
07-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Yea I don't see how Law doesn't get in. He was the elite CB for a long time and has both the numbers and the post season accomplishments.

I would put him in based on being the only player who owns Peyton Manning.

In Kansas City's 2006 playoff loss against the Indianapolis Colts, Law intercepted 2 passes from Peyton Manning. This set the NFL postseason record for most postseason interceptions (5) ever recorded by one player against one quarterback. “I told Ty after the game that I would be glad to introduce him at the Hall of Fame. I could do the introduction for him,” Manning said. “One of the reporters asked me if I was going to invite Ty Law to dinner. Well, I think he should invite me to dinner. That would be more appropriate.”

Peyton Manning, the consensus top QB of this era, thinks Ty Law is a slam dunk Hall of Fame player.

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 02:42 PM
He also owned Dan Marino.

Hines
07-09-2007, 02:50 PM
i wonder what he would say about jerome

probably. "not in" or "on the bubble"

haha

Shiver
07-09-2007, 03:01 PM
If it were up to me, I would only put in players that were the best at their positions for at least one year. Players like Curtis Martin will get in, for accumulative production, though I personally don't think that should be the case. Players should be evaluated by dominance first, longevity second.

BigDawg819
07-09-2007, 03:04 PM
I love Ward coming in here, negative repping me and yet doesn't even post himself. You want proof Ward, read the article! I said his analysis was pretty much right on, where's your proof it isn't?!?

Hines
07-09-2007, 03:06 PM
I love Ward coming in here, negative repping me and yet doesn't even post himself. You want proof Ward, read the article! I said his analysis was pretty much right on, where's your proof it isn't?!?

at first i thought u were talkin to me
haha

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 03:06 PM
Don't you have to win one MVP before you can win 2? I think you're referring to DPOY.

Defensive players almost never win the MVP due to general ignorance and hype amongst the media, so the DPOY is the MVP for the defensive side of the ball.

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 03:08 PM
Kruetz has been the best center for about three years, 4 at most. The guy who was better than him the other years, Mawae, Prisco says no way. If a center playing right now gets in other than Mawae, it would definitely be Kruetz, but when he says Mawae has no chance I don't see how he could even mention Kruetz.
While that may be, I don't see how someone like Faneca, who has never been the best at his position and still plays on the interior line, can be considered on the bubble. Guards and Centers go under basically the same criteria.

draftguru151
07-09-2007, 04:42 PM
Faneca was definitely in the argument for the best OG in the league for a few years, but he is in the same boat as Kruetz that both were top interior guys for a short time but it probably won't be enough to get them in. Eh, then again we're trying to reason something Prisco wrote, so there probably is no reason to it.

princefielder28
07-09-2007, 05:02 PM
Why even throw Kurt Warner's name out there??? Everyone knows he's nowhere near HOF caliber

BigDawg819
07-09-2007, 06:08 PM
I love Ward coming in here, negative repping me and yet doesn't even post himself. You want proof Ward, read the article! I said his analysis was pretty much right on, where's your proof it isn't?!?

Still waiting...............

etk
07-09-2007, 06:12 PM
I love Ward coming in here, negative repping me and yet doesn't even post himself. You want proof Ward, read the article! I said his analysis was pretty much right on, where's your proof it isn't?!?

LOL, I love Ward coming in here, positive repping me and yet he doesn't even post himself. You want proof BigDawg, read any article by Pete Prisco. The guy is an absolute d-bag that likes to create rankings and lists to prove his stupidity and piss off his audience.

BigDawg819
07-09-2007, 06:18 PM
LOL, I love Ward coming in here, positive repping me and yet he doesn't even post himself. You want proof BigDawg, read any article by Pete Prisco. The guy is an absolute d-bag that likes to create rankings and lists to prove his stupidity and piss off his audience.

I agree that most of his stuff is garbage, but for the most part his analysis on these players is right on. Put aside your hatred for the guy and then look at it again. He's right on with his predictions about Hall chances.

etk
07-09-2007, 06:20 PM
I agree that most of his stuff is garbage, but for the most part his analysis on these players is right on. Put aside your hatred for the guy and then look at it again. He's right on with his predictions about Hall chances.

I didn't bother to look, I never feel accomplished after reading his articles. I wasn't really arguing with you, just laughing at the situation.

BigDawg819
07-09-2007, 06:23 PM
I didn't bother to look, I never feel accomplished after reading his articles. I wasn't really arguing with you, just laughing at the situation.

The situation is repulsive! For Ward to that with his comment is bush league IMO. He's calling for me to provide proof when all he did was slam Prisco yet offer nothing of value to the discussion about the subject of the article.

etk
07-09-2007, 06:26 PM
The situation is repulsive! For Ward to that with his comment is bush league IMO. He's calling for me to provide proof when all he did was slam Prisco yet offer nothing of value to the discussion about the subject of the article.

Just stop right there, that's all I need to hear...

cardsalltheway
07-09-2007, 06:27 PM
Etk you should actually read the article. All of his rankings are pretty good

BigDawg819
07-09-2007, 06:30 PM
Etk you should actually read the article. All of his rankings are pretty good

Prepare for a rep raping........

etk
07-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Etk you should actually read the article. All of his rankings are pretty good

I'm not saying they aren't, but it's tradition. All Prisco articles get shown the back door.

Dam8610
07-09-2007, 06:53 PM
Why even throw Kurt Warner's name out there??? Everyone knows he's nowhere near HOF caliber

Didn't he win 2 MVP awards and a championship? Sad as it is, that in itself is nearly a HOF resume.

Mr. Stiller
07-09-2007, 08:12 PM
If it were up to me, I would only put in players that were the best at their positions for at least one year. Players like Curtis Martin will get in, for accumulative production, though I personally don't think that should be the case. Players should be evaluated by dominance first, longevity second.

By that logic Kordell Stewart should be in the HOF.

yo123
07-09-2007, 08:19 PM
By that logic Kordell Stewart should be in the HOF.



He said at least one year... not only one year.

Shiver
07-09-2007, 10:09 PM
By that logic Kordell Stewart should be in the HOF.

No it doesn't.

yo123
07-09-2007, 10:48 PM
I think Orlando Pace is in... thats my only real complaint on this list.

BigDawg819
07-10-2007, 12:50 PM
By that logic Kordell Stewart should be in the HOF.

Kordell was never the best anything.............EVER!

Shiver
07-10-2007, 01:27 PM
Kordell was never the best anything.............EVER!

Thank you. If I would have known that someone would have applied Kordell Stewart to my logic I would have killed myself on the spot, prior to me posting.

HoopsDemon12
07-10-2007, 01:28 PM
I can grauntee you that in 2 years holt will be a lock... the guy is the model of consitency.. is aging EXTREMLY well... he will be able to play 4-5 more years at a high level IMO... he is one of the greatest all time

Mr. Stiller
07-10-2007, 02:59 PM
Kordell had 1 or 2 extremely good seasons.

2001..

Threw for over 3100 yards, and had 600 on the ground... 15 tds passing and 5 running.

I'm not a Stewart fan, but thats a great season.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-10-2007, 03:03 PM
If it were up to me, I would only put in players that were the best at their positions for at least one year. Players like Curtis Martin will get in, for accumulative production, though I personally don't think that should be the case. Players should be evaluated by dominance first, longevity second.

I think that's a good idea. Although I'd think sometimes a person who is amazing in their own right, but just not the best, similar to say, Brady and Manning, depending on your viewpoint of them. Obviously, even if you think either one has been better for their whole career, they both deserve in. It would also prevent so called "accumulators" from getting in just by staying healthy and being very good, while never great. It's a problem that's gonna start happening in baseball, as the sacred 500 homers is going to be passed by players who are only "very good" and the pressure will be there to put them in. It will start happening soon in football as the 40,000 passing yard mark could be passed by guys who are just very good.

yo123
07-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Kordell had 1 or 2 extremely good seasons.

2001..

Threw for over 3100 yards, and had 600 on the ground... 15 tds passing and 5 running.

I'm not a Stewart fan, but thats a great season.



Thats a good season... michael vick does that every year.

Shiver
07-10-2007, 03:16 PM
Thats a good season... michael vick does that every year.

Kordell Stewart's best season:

| 2001 pit | 16 | 266 442 60.2 3109 7.0 14 11 | 96 537 5 |

Michael Vick's best season:

| 2002 atl | 15 | 231 421 54.9 2936 7.0 16 8 | 113 777 8 |

Just to back up your point. Michael Vick's '02 is better in my estimation. Not that being better than Kordell Stewart means anything.

JoeMontainya
07-10-2007, 05:10 PM
Seriously, does Walter Jones pay Prisco to hype him up and put down Pace? Best OL for the last 7 years? Are you kidding me?

Ill take Pace over Jones any day of the year, unless hes injured. How can anyone in their right mind exspect to get credibility for their work when they quetion Orlando Pace as a hall of famer? Not as good as Ogden? Geshhhh he damn well was better than Odgen for at least a 6 year period.

Mr. Stiller
07-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Kordell Stewart's best season:

| 2001 pit | 16 | 266 442 60.2 3109 7.0 14 11 | 96 537 5 |

Michael Vick's best season:

| 2002 atl | 15 | 231 421 54.9 2936 7.0 16 8 | 113 777 8 |

Just to back up your point. Michael Vick's '02 is better in my estimation. Not that being better than Kordell Stewart means anything.

Just the fact their comparable should either say that Vick is not that good, or Kordell was a lot better than ever given credit.

Vick has done that a lot, but he's also had some bad seasons that mirrored Kordell's bad seasons, though Kordell never got to the pro-bowl for any of his seasons IIRC.

HoopsDemon12
07-10-2007, 05:27 PM
Just the fact their comparable should either say that Vick is not that good, or Kordell was a lot better than ever given credit.

Vick has done that a lot, but he's also had some bad seasons that mirrored Kordell's bad seasons, though Kordell never got to the pro-bowl for any of his seasons IIRC.

vick will make the pro bowl on rep of being an exciting player pretty much every year though

Shiver
07-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Just the fact their comparable should either say that Vick is not that good, or Kordell was a lot better than ever given credit.

Vick has done that a lot, but he's also had some bad seasons that mirrored Kordell's bad seasons, though Kordell never got to the pro-bowl for any of his seasons IIRC.

Then how was my "logic" pointing to what you asserted? Kordell was never that good, thus he wouldn't fit into my qualification for a Hall of Fame player.

vick will make the pro bowl on rep of being an exciting player pretty much every year though

I don't think that is the case. I think it has more to do with the lack of decent Quarterbacks in the NFC. If Vick played in the AFC he would have one pro bowl, back in '02, not three.

HoopsDemon12
07-10-2007, 05:49 PM
Then how was my "logic" pointing to what you asserted? Kordell was never that good, thus he wouldn't fit into my qualification for a Hall of Fame player.



I don't think that is the case. I think it has more to do with the lack of decent Quarterbacks in the NFC. If Vick played in the AFC he would have one pro bowl, back in '02, not three.

ya actualyl that seems to be way more accurate... wow the NFC is hurting in most positions all together... AFC has the better players and teams basically at every position