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View Full Version : Does Al Harris deserve a Pro-Bowl bid


PackerMang
12-17-2006, 10:16 PM
He is the packers best DB, even though woodson (who also might make the probowl) has more picks (Tied for 1st in NFL with 6) but Harris has constanlty shut down the #1 receiver of opponents (today, held Roy Wiliams to one catch for 11 yards and out fought him for a interception).
Teams don't pass against Harris or Woodson and we are poor against the pass because of our nickelback, LB and safeties not Harris or Woodson

sweetness34
12-17-2006, 10:18 PM
No. From what I've heard and seen he hasn't been that great this season.

4pAc
12-17-2006, 10:20 PM
I am going to be a homer and say yes

GB12
12-17-2006, 10:28 PM
http://nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31018 could have gone in there.

Anyways in reply to sweetness, he started out slow and looked like he lost it big time. after the first couple weeks he has been great though and is probably having one of his best seasons.

Should he go - maybe
Will he go - No, probably an alternate again.

bearsfan_51
12-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Considering that the Packers secondary is dogshit this year, and from what every Packers fan has said Charles Woodson has had a better year, I'm going to use my brain here and say no. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if you're part of a miserable unit, you share the blame.

And again, this goes back to the argument that njx had that nobody could answer. A lot of the passing yards are going to wide recievers, if it's not the cornerbacks fault, who the hell is supposed to be covering these guys? You can't blame it all on the safties.

sodar21
12-17-2006, 11:02 PM
Considering that the Packers secondary is dogshit this year, and from what every Packers fan has said Charles Woodson has had a better year, I'm going to use my brain here and say no. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if you're part of a miserable unit, you share the blame.

And again, this goes back to the argument that njx had that nobody could answer. A lot of the passing yards are going to wide recievers, if it's not the cornerbacks fault, who the hell is supposed to be covering these guys? You can't blame it all on the safties.
Didn't Denver have one of the worst Pass Ds last season? Doesn't seem to hurt Bailey's rep though.

bearsfan_51
12-17-2006, 11:05 PM
Considering that the Packers secondary is dogshit this year, and from what every Packers fan has said Charles Woodson has had a better year, I'm going to use my brain here and say no. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if you're part of a miserable unit, you share the blame.

And again, this goes back to the argument that njx had that nobody could answer. A lot of the passing yards are going to wide recievers, if it's not the cornerbacks fault, who the hell is supposed to be covering these guys? You can't blame it all on the safties.
Didn't Denver have one of the worst Pass Ds last season? Doesn't seem to hurt Bailey's rep though.
Teams don't even try to throw on Bailey. You can't say that for Harris.

PackerMang
12-17-2006, 11:06 PM
Since I never miss a packer game I can tell you for a fact that Harris completly shuts out the #1 receiver. It was the same story last year.
Tell me the last receiver that got more then 50 yards on him this year. I can't think of any.

The packers snub out the #1 but opponents take shots against our nickelback, Lb or safety. The fact that the packers give up a lot of passing yards doesn't reflect his play. He doesn't get the stats of pass breakups or Int because QB's don't look his way that often. He is a top bump and run, man-to-man cover guy.

bearsfan_51
12-17-2006, 11:09 PM
Since I never miss a packer game I can tell you for a fact that Harris completly shuts out the #1 receiver. It was the same story last year.
Tell me the last receiver that got more then 50 yards on him this year. I can't think of any.

The packers snub out the #1 but opponents take shots against our nickelback, Lb or safety. The fact that the packers give up a lot of passing yards doesn't reflect his play. He doesn't get the stats of pass breakups or Int because QB's don't look his way that often. He is a top bump and run, man-to-man cover guy.
Al Harris covered Moose week 1. Here's his stat-line.

M. Muhammad- 6 catches-102 yards.

That took me about 4 seconds.

sweetness34
12-17-2006, 11:11 PM
Since I never miss a packer game I can tell you for a fact that Harris completly shuts out the #1 receiver. It was the same story last year.
Tell me the last receiver that got more then 50 yards on him this year. I can't think of any.

The packers snub out the #1 but opponents take shots against our nickelback, Lb or safety. The fact that the packers give up a lot of passing yards doesn't reflect his play. He doesn't get the stats of pass breakups or Int because QB's don't look his way that often. He is a top bump and run, man-to-man cover guy.

Bernard Berrian and Moose toasted you guys in the first game, that's at least one dude. :?

Moose had 102 and Berrian had 50, well ok 49 but one yard.

Roy Williams had 138 against you guys in Week 3, should I go on or just stop while I'm ahead?

Pit Bull #53
12-17-2006, 11:12 PM
Since I never miss a packer game I can tell you for a fact that Harris completly shuts out the #1 receiver. It was the same story last year.
Tell me the last receiver that got more then 50 yards on him this year. I can't think of any.

The packers snub out the #1 but opponents take shots against our nickelback, Lb or safety. The fact that the packers give up a lot of passing yards doesn't reflect his play. He doesn't get the stats of pass breakups or Int because QB's don't look his way that often. He is a top bump and run, man-to-man cover guy.
Al Harris covered Moose week 1. Here's his stat-line.

M. Muhammad- 6 catches-102 yards.

That took me about 4 seconds.

That was obviously because of the safeties and nickelback

sweetness34
12-17-2006, 11:12 PM
Since I never miss a packer game I can tell you for a fact that Harris completly shuts out the #1 receiver. It was the same story last year.
Tell me the last receiver that got more then 50 yards on him this year. I can't think of any.

The packers snub out the #1 but opponents take shots against our nickelback, Lb or safety. The fact that the packers give up a lot of passing yards doesn't reflect his play. He doesn't get the stats of pass breakups or Int because QB's don't look his way that often. He is a top bump and run, man-to-man cover guy.
Al Harris covered Moose week 1. Here's his stat-line.

M. Muhammad- 6 catches-102 yards.

That took me about 4 seconds.

That was obviously because of the safeties and nickelback

Yup. :roll: :lol:

P-L
12-17-2006, 11:15 PM
Roy Williams slipped and fell to the ground on that INT, Harris hardly fought him for it. Harris' performance today had more to do with the poor offensive line of the Lions and the pass rush of the Packers. Any time a defense gets 6 sacks and is in the QB's face the whole game, the CB is going to look better. Now I'm not saying Harris had a bad game, but that pass rush combined with awful play by the Lions OL help him out.

sweetness34
12-17-2006, 11:19 PM
Here you go PackerMang:

Week One: Moose 102 yards

Week Two: Joe Horn 88 yards

Week Three: Roy Williams 138 yards

Week Four: Reggie Brown 63 yards

Week Nine: Lee Evans 58 yards

I'll stop there.

Komp
12-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Considering there is a good chance either him or Deangelo Hall get into the ProBowl I will pick my poison with Harris.

sweetness34
12-17-2006, 11:21 PM
Considering there is a good chance either him or Deangelo Hall get into the ProBowl I will pick my poison with Harris.

DeAngelo Hall will not be in the Pro Bowl, and if he is it's a crime.

Shiver
12-18-2006, 12:26 AM
Lee Evans beat Al Harris deep three times, but Losman only hit him once.

TitleTown088
12-18-2006, 12:40 AM
Lee Evans beat Al Harris deep three times, but Losman only hit him once.

are you sure that wasn't Manuels fault not harris's? Many of the yards roy willliams got in week 3 were when the safties were covering him... nick collins got burned for a long TD in that game, not harris. I dunno if he deserves it, he has been solid. I think woodson deserves it more than harris. The guy is playing injured every week and he still lead the NFL in takeaways at 7. but the thing with either one of these guys making the probowl is that they bolth are playing on one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. thanks shotty.

remix 6
12-18-2006, 05:53 AM
hes not tied for first in picks. before stats updated its 7. and now its 8 with Samuel and Bailey

TitleTown088
12-18-2006, 10:33 AM
hes not tied for first in picks. before stats updated its 7. and now its 8 with Samuel and Bailey

yeah well when i was watching the game he was so oh well. Anyways those are bolth AFC guys.

ny10804
12-18-2006, 10:38 AM
Here you go PackerMang:

Week One: Moose 102 yards

Week Two: Joe Horn 88 yards

Week Three: Roy Williams 138 yards

Week Four: Reggie Brown 63 yards

Week Nine: Lee Evans 58 yards

I'll stop there.

It should be noted that Al Harris only played his side for weeks 1 through 3. From weeks 4 till now, he's been man with who the Packers determined was the team's best WR. Also, Charles Woodson has been on the 2nd WR, and thus his stats are better than Harris'.

bigbluedefense
12-18-2006, 12:08 PM
NO!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH OF THIS AL HARRIS IS GOD ******** FROM PACKER FANS, ITS SICKENING, STOP IT ALREADY!!!!!

Newman, Sheppard, Brown, and Ronde Barber are all ahead of him.

someone447
12-18-2006, 12:26 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the **** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

njx9
12-18-2006, 12:30 PM
so you're actually saying that almost every single big play given up was by the safeties? are you implying that the packers now play almost exclusive cover 2, or are you just making lame excuses?

someone447
12-18-2006, 12:35 PM
Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!

njx9
12-18-2006, 01:45 PM
Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!

cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.

bigbluedefense
12-18-2006, 01:56 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the *********** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

I can live with that. Its just tiring hearing about Harris so much.

WCH
12-18-2006, 02:16 PM
I've always been one of Harris' harshest critics, but if some of the best WRs in the game consistently rave about him being an elite shut-down corner, on par with Champ Baily, then just maybe we should accept the fact that he really does deserve to make the Pro Bowl.

SuperMcGee
12-18-2006, 03:56 PM
Lee Evans beat Al Harris deep three times, but Losman only hit him once.

are you sure that wasn't Manuels fault not harris's? Many of the yards roy willliams got in week 3 were when the safties were covering him... nick collins got burned for a long TD in that game, not harris. I dunno if he deserves it, he has been solid. I think woodson deserves it more than harris. The guy is playing injured every week and he still lead the NFL in takeaways at 7. but the thing with either one of these guys making the probowl is that they bolth are playing on one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. thanks shotty.

Harris just got lost on the Evans TD

TitleTown088
12-18-2006, 04:38 PM
Lee Evans beat Al Harris deep three times, but Losman only hit him once.

are you sure that wasn't Manuels fault not harris's? Many of the yards roy willliams got in week 3 were when the safties were covering him... nick collins got burned for a long TD in that game, not harris. I dunno if he deserves it, he has been solid. I think woodson deserves it more than harris. The guy is playing injured every week and he still lead the NFL in takeaways at 7. but the thing with either one of these guys making the probowl is that they bolth are playing on one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. thanks shotty.

Harris just got lost on the Evans TD
yeah, my bad i thought it was one where manel missed it because i am so used to seeing it happen.

Marion Barber III 24
12-18-2006, 06:53 PM
He deserves it.

My pro bowl votes

Terence Newman
Al Harris
Walt Harris

jackalope
12-18-2006, 07:57 PM
he's been good this year besides a few blown coverages but if he didn't make it in past years i don't see why he would this year. he'll be an alternate.

Boston
12-18-2006, 08:09 PM
Week 6: Chris Chambers, 2 catches for 29 yards.
Week 7: Anquan Boldin, 4 catches for 47 yards.
Week 8: Lee Evans, 2 catches for 58 yards and one TD
Week 9: Travis Taylor, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 10: Troy Brown, 4 catches for 26 yards.
Week 11: Darrell Jackson, 2 catches for 20 yards with one TD
Week 12: Lavernious Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 13: Antonio Bryant, 1 catch for 39 yards.
Week 14: Roy Williams, 1 catch for 11 yards.

Each reciever was more than likely covered by Harris one on one for the majority of the game. And it's not like those receivers are back up recievers either.

yourfavestoner
12-18-2006, 08:46 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the *********** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

I can live with that. Its just tiring hearing about Harris so much.

Nothing was worse than this past offseason. The Packers fans were out of control. If you listened to talk about how good, yet underrated, every single one of their players was, you'd think they had enough talent to win the Superbowl, but just got bit by the injury bug.

70challenger457
12-18-2006, 08:54 PM
I think he's a very good shutdown corner but not so much the play maker that woodson is. We got the best of both worlds in the corners, latley they have gotten better and better. Harris is better at shuting down than Woodson, 1 of them should go I think

12-18-2006, 08:54 PM
I think he's a very good shutdown corner but not so much the play maker that woodson is. We got the best of both worlds in the corners, latley they have gotten better and better. Harris is better at shuting down than Woodson, 1 of them should go I think

There is only one shutdown corner in the NFL, and it is sure as hell not Al Harris.

12-18-2006, 08:56 PM
I don't think Al Harris should even be considered for the pro bowl. His sub par play for most of the year has really dissapointed. I remember before the start of last season I was trying to make an argument for him to be a top 10 corner with the way he played last year.

Although Harris has played well in the last 4-5 games, that doesn't make up for his performances the week's prior to that. I have seen most of the Packers game this year Harris has been shaky in coverage through most of the games. Alot of those blown coverages that GB has become famous for this year have occured on his side.

To me he was always a better coverage guy in shorter yardage than longer yardage. This year he hasn't looked to great on the short coverage and has allowed way too many balls to be completed in fron of him. Last year he would have knocked down a bunch of those.

The Packers CB who need's to go to the Pro Bowl is Charles Woodson. Who, like Harris, got off to a slow start but broke out of it and started playing the way he is capable by about the 4th week. He is showing shades of his olds self and for the first time in a long time he will probably go through the whole season without missing a game. Woodson has been great in all aspects of coverage for most of the year. He also has a bunch of INT's to add to that.

GB12
12-18-2006, 09:02 PM
**Attention**

There shall be no more threads where the main topic is Al Harris. Non Packer fans are sick of it(I am too), and if anything it just pushes them away more.

jackalope
12-18-2006, 09:04 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the *********** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

I can live with that. Its just tiring hearing about Harris so much.

Nothing was worse than this past offseason. The Packers fans were out of control. If you listened to talk about how good, yet underrated, every single one of their players was, you'd think they had enough talent to win the Superbowl, but just got bit by the injury bug.who besides Harris was said to be really good yet underrated?

The Unseen
12-18-2006, 09:05 PM
as

ifwhatevergetthepictureduh

njx9
12-18-2006, 10:52 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the *********** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

I can live with that. Its just tiring hearing about Harris so much.

Nothing was worse than this past offseason. The Packers fans were out of control. If you listened to talk about how good, yet underrated, every single one of their players was, you'd think they had enough talent to win the Superbowl, but just got bit by the injury bug.who besides Harris was said to be really good yet underrated?

brett favre, on a fairly regular basis. nearly every single player on the active roster was brought up at some point as being much better than anyone outside of green bay thought.

TitleTown088
12-18-2006, 11:00 PM
I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration. I haven't seen many games since week 4, but the ones I did, he played quite well. It IS the safeties and lbers that have been giving up the big plays. The Packers don't always play man coverage. No team ALWAYS plays man coverage. When they do, the top 2 recievers don't do a whole lot. But then the TE or the number 3 reciever just dominates Dendy and Poppinga.(How many non packer fans have even ever heard of those guys? Hell, how many packer fans have heard of them until the starting getting bent over in the passing game this year?) Then as soon as Woodson or Harris release the receiver to the safeties, well, that is the problem. Collins will occasionally make a play, and Manual, I don't know what the *********** he does when a receiver comes in his general direction. He acts like he should be playing for St. Mary's School for the Blind and Deaf. Hell, there have been times when I am sure that I could cover better than he could. At least I am able to follow my responsibility. He always tends to double the short guy with the corner who released the outside man on a fade, and leave the guy going deep to be covered by air.

Guess what Big Blue, Roy Williams and Chad Johnson both have said he is one of the best corners in the league. I will say that I believe he is underrated here, but a lot of that is because there are so many people who overrate and act like he is the best corner of all time. So it kind of turns people off. There is a new Al Harris thread as often as there is a new Mike Vick thread. Both of whom are underrated by the majority of posters on this site, and overrated, by many of the others.

I can live with that. Its just tiring hearing about Harris so much.

Nothing was worse than this past offseason. The Packers fans were out of control. If you listened to talk about how good, yet underrated, every single one of their players was, you'd think they had enough talent to win the Superbowl, but just got bit by the injury bug.who besides Harris was said to be really good yet underrated?

brett favre, on a fairly regular basis. nearly every single player on the active roster was brought up at some point as being much better than anyone outside of green bay thought.

I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.

njx9
12-18-2006, 11:12 PM
I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.

:roll:

GB12
12-18-2006, 11:13 PM
Just stop now, there is no winning.

giantfAn
12-18-2006, 11:16 PM
al harris = poor man chris deloatch.

Shiver
12-19-2006, 12:25 AM
No, my current top three are Newman, Sheppard and Bly.

TitleTown088
12-19-2006, 12:48 AM
I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.

:roll:
i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.

danman253
12-19-2006, 03:45 AM
Woodson is more deseving than Harris...

yourfavestoner
12-19-2006, 04:06 AM
I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.

:roll:
i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.

Well, he did throw 29 interceptions last year. I'd say Favre gave his doubters plenty of reason to argue.

12-19-2006, 05:51 AM
I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.

:roll:
i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.

He was lucky to have been compared to someone as good as Johnson was last year.

Packman1957
12-19-2006, 10:35 AM
Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!

cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.

Man you seriously need to stop talking out of your a$$. If you watched any of the Packer games you would know exactly what we are talking about. The deep passes where Harris got beat were the safties fault. It wasn't because they got beat, it was because of communication breakdowns. Like I said if you watched even one of those packer games you would know what we are talking about. Yes Harris may have gotten burnt a couple of times, but every corner has gotten beaten once or twice in this league. No one is perfect.

I seriously do not get how someone can literally voice their opinion on this thread when they don't have a ******* clue what they are talking about. I know I am a Packer fan and there might be a little bias in me, I however do know that some of those long passes for TD's where because of communication breakdowns not because Al Harris got burnt.

njx9
12-19-2006, 11:12 AM
Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!

cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.

Man you seriously need to stop talking out of your a$$. If you watched any of the Packer games you would know exactly what we are talking about. The deep passes where Harris got beat were the safties fault. It wasn't because they got beat, it was because of communication breakdowns. Like I said if you watched even one of those packer games you would know what we are talking about. Yes Harris may have gotten burnt a couple of times, but every corner has gotten beaten once or twice in this league. No one is perfect.

I seriously do not get how someone can literally voice their opinion on this thread when they don't have a *********** clue what they are talking about. I know I am a Packer fan and there might be a little bias in me, I however do know that some of those long passes for TD's where because of communication breakdowns not because Al Harris got burnt.

a little bias? you're essentially saying that the safeties are responsible for every touchdown pass against the packers this season (except for "a couple"). horse stuff.

you accuse me of talking out my rear end and not having a clue what i'm talking about, but all you provide to back your own opinion up is hearsay. even other packers fans are saying that harris hasn't been great this year and that he's been beat a few (i.e. more than a couple) times. i'll be waiting for either written reports or video evidence that the vast majority of those touchdowns were the fault of the safeties. until then, i'll go with common sense.

bearsfan_51
12-19-2006, 11:13 AM
What great fun this thread will be in a few hours when Al Harris doesn't make the probowl.

ny10804
12-19-2006, 11:27 AM
There are three options, IMO:

(a) Woodson makes it and Harris gets really mad, prompting him to complain about his contract.
(b) Harris makes it, demands a new contract and C-Wood shows mild anger.
(c) Neither make it and both complain all week.

PackerMang
12-19-2006, 11:46 AM
What great fun this thread will be in a few hours when Al Harris doesn't make the probowl.

True. do I think that Harris will make the probowl, probably not. In the voting it lists stats and Woodson and various other players more interceptions and PD then harris. But I do think that Harris deserves it.

Moses
12-19-2006, 01:46 PM
Harris and Woodson have both played very well this year.

Harris can take receivers out of the game 1 on 1 but his aggressiveness causes him to get beat deep occasionally. This is where I put some of the blame on the safeties. Harris will lock down a receiver for most of the game and then finally a receiver will get a step on him and beat him deep. Unfortunately for the Packers, the safeties rarely do much in coverage and it ends up being a long gain.

Woodson has been a bit inconsistent until recent weeks but he's finally showing off his playmaking ability that won him the Heisman so many years ago. He's not the type of cornerback who takes receivers out of games like Harris does but he's the type who you're scared to throw at because he'll pick it off and bring it back for at touchdown. The downside to Woodson is that he'll got caught gambling at times and give up big chunks of yardage.

Harris and Woodson are similar in the fact that they'll both occasionally give up the big play. This is why the Packers need quality coverage safeties to take away these long gains and allow Woodson and Harris to continue to gamble because that is what they do best.

I don't really care about the Pro Bowl (it's a bit of a joke to me) so I don't really know if either deserve to be in it. Both Woodson and Harris are among the top cornerbacks in the NFC and I don't see any reason to replace either. Cornerback is one position where the Packers are very strong at (at least at the top) but lack depth which hurts them.

One more thing to note: The biggest problem with the Packers defence is communication. Most of the big plays are a result of a blown coverage assignment. This is a result of coaching and the secondary lacking a vocal leader. I would love to see Collins develop into the leader of the secondary but he doesn't seem to be making that adjustment. Therefore, the Packers may want to look at LaRon Landry in the draft, a vocal leader and great coverage safety.

drowe
12-19-2006, 02:30 PM
-----Why he should get in

-he's very respected around the NFL's. several of the NFL's elite WRs have referred to Harris as the best they have faced.

-he has been very solid this year in man coverage.

-the dreads.

----why he shouldn't get it

-he has had a hard time in zone coverage. harder to tell who is blowing it inzone...but Harris has been involved in too many big plays to ignore.

-the unit he is a part of sucks balls. not nearly all his fault, but if he was THAT good, you'd think the team's defensive stats would reflect it a little more.

-Charles Woodson is just as good, if not better.

someone447
12-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Harris and Woodson have both played very well this year.

Harris can take receivers out of the game 1 on 1 but his aggressiveness causes him to get beat deep occasionally. This is where I put some of the blame on the safeties. Harris will lock down a receiver for most of the game and then finally a receiver will get a step on him and beat him deep. Unfortunately for the Packers, the safeties rarely do much in coverage and it ends up being a long gain.

Woodson has been a bit inconsistent until recent weeks but he's finally showing off his playmaking ability that won him the Heisman so many years ago. He's not the type of cornerback who takes receivers out of games like Harris does but he's the type who you're scared to throw at because he'll pick it off and bring it back for at touchdown. The downside to Woodson is that he'll got caught gambling at times and give up big chunks of yardage.

Harris and Woodson are similar in the fact that they'll both occasionally give up the big play. This is why the Packers need quality coverage safeties to take away these long gains and allow Woodson and Harris to continue to gamble because that is what they do best.

I don't really care about the Pro Bowl (it's a bit of a joke to me) so I don't really know if either deserve to be in it. Both Woodson and Harris are among the top cornerbacks in the NFC and I don't see any reason to replace either. Cornerback is one position where the Packers are very strong at (at least at the top) but lack depth which hurts them.

One more thing to note: The biggest problem with the Packers defence is communication. Most of the big plays are a result of a blown coverage assignment. This is a result of coaching and the secondary lacking a vocal leader. I would love to see Collins develop into the leader of the secondary but he doesn't seem to be making that adjustment. Therefore, the Packers may want to look at LaRon Landry in the draft, a vocal leader and great coverage safety.

Well said.

But MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY of the long passes given up rest PRIMARILY on the safeties shoulders. At times Manual looks like he would be lucky to beat Ted Washington in a foot race. Not only that, the first 4-5 games the dbs had no communication. Harris or Woodson would release a receiver deep, and Manual would come up on a TE running an 10 yard crossing route, leaving the receiver with no one within 10 yards of him.

NJX, you can't tell me that Driver and Kampman weren't underrated. Yet again Driver is having a huge year. Kampman is leading the NFC DLine in tackles by double digits, he has 12 sacks, yet everyone outside of Packer fans thought the new contract was a mistake. People were making Favre out to be on the level of David Carr, yet there are probably 20 teams that would take him if they thought they needed a QB for a playoff run.

njx9
12-19-2006, 03:03 PM
i have zero problem, fwiw, believeing that kampman was, and likely still is, underrated. driver is to an extent, although i think most people believe he's a good wide receiver.

the problem, the any rational packer fan has to admit (or at least see), is that earlier this season, there were several packer fans who flooded the board with threads about how certain players on the roster were SO underrated, or how they were SO much better than anyone else in the league. brett favre is a top five all-time nfl quarterback. he hasn't been vaguely close to a top 5 nfl quarterback the last two seasons. the argument could be made he's not even been top ten or fifteen, although i won't get into that.

cunningham06
12-19-2006, 03:09 PM
It's possible but I'd put Harris in a group of maybe's. The CB's in the NFC are not the best.

Locks, or should be locks- Newman, Sheppard

Maybe's- Al Harris, Ronde Barber, Walt Harris, Winfield, Woodson, Bly, Tillman, Hall.

Newman's been great this season, as has Sheppard so I see both of them going to the Pro Bowl, as for the maybe's I just put in Winfield and Bly because they always have good seasons but I don't see them going. Ronde's been a beast against the run but isn't racking up the int's like he usually does.

cunningham06
12-19-2006, 03:16 PM
Wow I just saw the pro bowl ballot and I did not expect for Hall to make it. Damn the public oh well. Also no Newman? I'm no Cowboys fan so I don't really care, but wow he was the only person I was pretty sure would make it.

johbur
12-19-2006, 03:51 PM
Sheppard has 27 tackles and 5 picks. I've seen him play this year and he looked good. It is hard to get excited about the NFC ProBowl picks. None of them are on teams leading their division even. DeAngelo Hall was a surprise, especially after watching TO burn him. Ronde Barber has 93 tackles and 3 picks, but the Bucs are so weak right now. Hall has 54 tackles and 4 picks.

Harris has 40 tackles and 3 picks. Woodson has 53 tackles and 6 picks, most of the players listed here.

Of the Division leaders:
Newman has 58/1, Henry 72/1.
Tillman has 80/5, Vasher has 38/2. Tillman has the tackles and picks to be a pro-bowler, AND his team is 12-2. No love for him.
Mckenzie has 33/2, Thomas has 51/0.
Herndon has 65/1, Trufant has 62/1.

Not having seen Ronde play this year, I don't know how he's done in coverage, but it looks like he's been big with run support. Lito's on a winning team at least.

Packman1957
12-19-2006, 05:26 PM
Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!

cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.

Man you seriously need to stop talking out of your a$$. If you watched any of the Packer games you would know exactly what we are talking about. The deep passes where Harris got beat were the safties fault. It wasn't because they got beat, it was because of communication breakdowns. Like I said if you watched even one of those packer games you would know what we are talking about. Yes Harris may have gotten burnt a couple of times, but every corner has gotten beaten once or twice in this league. No one is perfect.

I seriously do not get how someone can literally voice their opinion on this thread when they don't have a *********** clue what they are talking about. I know I am a Packer fan and there might be a little bias in me, I however do know that some of those long passes for TD's where because of communication breakdowns not because Al Harris got burnt.

a little bias? you're essentially saying that the safeties are responsible for every touchdown pass against the packers this season (except for "a couple"). horse stuff.

you accuse me of talking out my rear end and not having a clue what i'm talking about, but all you provide to back your own opinion up is hearsay. even other packers fans are saying that harris hasn't been great this year and that he's been beat a few (i.e. more than a couple) times. i'll be waiting for either written reports or video evidence that the vast majority of those touchdowns were the fault of the safeties. until then, i'll go with common sense.

And where is your proof, I am a Packer fan you idiot, I have watched every Packer game, how many have you watched? What maybe 1 or 2 if that. Thats why you shouldn't even talk, cause you have no idea what you are talking about

And yes some (notice how I bolded it) of those touchdowns were the safeties fault, or mostly Marquand Manuel's fault. It was because of communication problems, not because Al Harris got beat. Ask any Packer fan and they will tell you, it happened in the Bears game, Bills game, and a few others. But I think you took my statement to seriously. I was merely trying to state my case for why Harris isn't getting much credit. He would have shut down more recievers had it not been for those breakdowns.

And then your next statement was Packer fans are saying Harris hasn't been great this year??????????????????????????????? This truly confirms that your ******** and talking directly out your butthole, packer fans are hoping we give him a pay raise just to keep him in Green Bay for crying out loud. By the way who is your favorite team. Wasn't it the Broncos or something. Maybe I should starting saying some random stuff about the Broncos and act like I know what I'm talking about. Cause you obviously know nothing about Al Harris or the Packers. So just shut your trap before you embarass yourself you fool.

njx9
12-19-2006, 06:18 PM
And where is your proof, I am a Packer fan you idiot, I have watched every Packer game, how many have you watched? What maybe 1 or 2 if that. Thats why you shouldn't even talk, cause you have no idea what you are talking about

are you even capable of making a single argument without weakening your entire case by making repeated personal attacks? or does the fact that i don't think al harris is the best cornerback in the league really piss you off THAT much? i've extrapolated based on the stats that harris and woodson must be giving up some plays based on the large number of touchdowns by opposing teams #1 and #2 receivers. if you looked at denver, you could make the same case, and, in the case of darrent williams, you'd be right. and denver's safeties don't know what pass coverage is. all i asked for is video evidence or the opinion of a few people who AREN'T packers fans (and thus, by definition, biased).

so yeah, i must be an idiot. :roll:

And yes some (notice how I bolded it) of those touchdowns were the safeties fault, or mostly Marquand Manuel's fault. It was because of communication problems, not because Al Harris got beat. Ask any Packer fan and they will tell you, it happened in the Bears game, Bills game, and a few others. But I think you took my statement to seriously. I was merely trying to state my case for why Harris isn't getting much credit. He would have shut down more recievers had it not been for those breakdowns.

and that's a valid point (and, amazingly, one without a single personal attack). i can buy that, but again, i'd like to see the unbiased opinion of someone who actually watched the game tape on harris.

And then your next statement was Packer fans are saying Harris hasn't been great this year??????????????????????????????? This truly confirms that your dumb and talking directly out your butthole

Harris has been involved in too many big plays to ignore

I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration

I don't think Al Harris should even be considered for the pro bowl. His sub par play for most of the year has really dissapointed

njx - 3
you - 0

again, no one said he sucks. no one said he isn't a good corner. but to say he hasn't had problems this year is, by the stats and by the opinion of some packer's fans, just not true.

packer fans are hoping we give him a pay raise just to keep him in Green Bay for crying out loud.

hooray. what does that have to do with the fact that he hasn't performed at a pro bowl level all season?

sweetness34
12-19-2006, 06:21 PM
And where is your proof, I am a Packer fan you idiot, I have watched every Packer game, how many have you watched? What maybe 1 or 2 if that. Thats why you shouldn't even talk, cause you have no idea what you are talking about

are you even capable of making a single argument without weakening your entire case by making repeated personal attacks? or does the fact that i don't think al harris is the best cornerback in the league really piss you off THAT much? i've extrapolated based on the stats that harris and woodson must be giving up some plays based on the large number of touchdowns by opposing teams #1 and #2 receivers. if you looked at denver, you could make the same case, and, in the case of darrent williams, you'd be right. and denver's safeties don't know what pass coverage is. all i asked for is video evidence or the opinion of a few people who AREN'T packers fans (and thus, by definition, biased).

so yeah, i must be an idiot. :roll:

And yes some (notice how I bolded it) of those touchdowns were the safeties fault, or mostly Marquand Manuel's fault. It was because of communication problems, not because Al Harris got beat. Ask any Packer fan and they will tell you, it happened in the Bears game, Bills game, and a few others. But I think you took my statement to seriously. I was merely trying to state my case for why Harris isn't getting much credit. He would have shut down more recievers had it not been for those breakdowns.

and that's a valid point (and, amazingly, one without a single personal attack). i can buy that, but again, i'd like to see the unbiased opinion of someone who actually watched the game tape on harris.

And then your next statement was Packer fans are saying Harris hasn't been great this year??????????????????????????????? This truly confirms that your dumb and talking directly out your butthole

Harris has been involved in too many big plays to ignore

I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration

I don't think Al Harris should even be considered for the pro bowl. His sub par play for most of the year has really dissapointed

njx - 3
you - 0

again, no one said he sucks. no one said he isn't a good corner. but to say he hasn't had problems this year is, by the stats and by the opinion of some packer's fans, just not true.

packer fans are hoping we give him a pay raise just to keep him in Green Bay for crying out loud.

hooray. what does that have to do with the fact that he hasn't performed at a pro bowl level all season?

I love you njx. :D

Aw shucks, he didn't make it. Well there goes this thread.

Moses
12-19-2006, 06:24 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very good and had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

njx9
12-19-2006, 06:26 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very good and had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Packman1957
12-19-2006, 06:52 PM
And where is your proof, I am a Packer fan you idiot, I have watched every Packer game, how many have you watched? What maybe 1 or 2 if that. Thats why you shouldn't even talk, cause you have no idea what you are talking about

are you even capable of making a single argument without weakening your entire case by making repeated personal attacks? or does the fact that i don't think al harris is the best cornerback in the league really piss you off THAT much? i've extrapolated based on the stats that harris and woodson must be giving up some plays based on the large number of touchdowns by opposing teams #1 and #2 receivers. if you looked at denver, you could make the same case, and, in the case of darrent williams, you'd be right. and denver's safeties don't know what pass coverage is. all i asked for is video evidence or the opinion of a few people who AREN'T packers fans (and thus, by definition, biased).

so yeah, i must be an idiot. :roll:

And yes some (notice how I bolded it) of those touchdowns were the safeties fault, or mostly Marquand Manuel's fault. It was because of communication problems, not because Al Harris got beat. Ask any Packer fan and they will tell you, it happened in the Bears game, Bills game, and a few others. But I think you took my statement to seriously. I was merely trying to state my case for why Harris isn't getting much credit. He would have shut down more recievers had it not been for those breakdowns.

and that's a valid point (and, amazingly, one without a single personal attack). i can buy that, but again, i'd like to see the unbiased opinion of someone who actually watched the game tape on harris.

And then your next statement was Packer fans are saying Harris hasn't been great this year??????????????????????????????? This truly confirms that your dumb and talking directly out your butthole

Harris has been involved in too many big plays to ignore

I don't think Harris deserves it, he played SO bad the first couple of games that I think it takes him out of consideration

I don't think Al Harris should even be considered for the pro bowl. His sub par play for most of the year has really dissapointed

njx - 3
you - 0

again, no one said he sucks. no one said he isn't a good corner. but to say he hasn't had problems this year is, by the stats and by the opinion of some packer's fans, just not true.

packer fans are hoping we give him a pay raise just to keep him in Green Bay for crying out loud.

hooray. what does that have to do with the fact that he hasn't performed at a pro bowl level all season?

you take three people's opinion, any packer fan or anyone who watched the packers would know this was one of Al Harris best season of his career. By the way did I ever say Al Harris is the best cornerback in the league or even try to lead you to believe that. I'm not saying that at all, I am saying he should be in the pro-bowl, especially considering Hall and Barber are in there. I mean you can line up the stats and compare and find out who is better. Don't ask me to lay that out for you either. I am not going to waste 30 minutes trying to show one person why Al Harris is better than Hall or Barber. But I am not going to sit here and argue because there are a lot of players who should have made the pro-bowl but didn't so the pro-bowl selection is somewhat unfair in my opinion.

And yes he did have a few problems, mostly earlier in the season, but tell me one corner besides Champ Bailey who didn't have any problems. I am merely stating that I think he played better this season than Hall and Barber. And I don't know how anyone could say this wasn't one of his better seasons, I mean to be able to shut down some of the best recievers in the league shows that he is a pro-bowl caliber player.

njx9
12-19-2006, 06:55 PM
And yes he did have a few problems, mostly earlier in the season, but tell me one corner besides Champ Bailey who didn't have any problems. I am merely stating that I think he played better this season than Hall and Barber. And I don't know how anyone could say this wasn't one of his better seasons, I mean to be able to shut down some of the best recievers in the league shows that he is a pro-bowl caliber player.

for the record, i don't think there's a single person on this site who thinks hall should have sniffed pro-bowl this season (assuming, of course, it actually had something to do with ability).

but fwiw, yes, i agree with most of what you've said this time.

Packman1957
12-19-2006, 06:56 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very good and had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

njx9
12-19-2006, 07:00 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

Moses
12-19-2006, 07:02 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

njx9
12-19-2006, 07:05 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

:roll:

let's be clear with our syntax. very good, good and excellent are vastly different terms. he had a good season, sure, i'll take your word for it. but, based on the stats i can see, and testimoney (previously quoted) of packers fans who admitted he got beat on more than a couple of plays, i have a difficult time justifying him as having a very good season.

there being 5 better cornerbacks in the nfc has very little to do with the quality of harris's season.

Moses
12-19-2006, 07:08 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

:roll:

let's be clear with our syntax. very good, good and excellent are vastly different terms. he had a good season, sure, i'll take your word for it. but, based on the stats i can see, and testimoney (previously quoted) of packers fans who admitted he got beat on more than a couple of plays, i have a difficult time justifying him as having a very good season.

there being 5 better cornerbacks in the nfc has very little to do with the quality of harris's season.

If he was a top 5 corner in the NFC, I would say that is an excellent season.

njx9
12-19-2006, 07:12 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

:roll:

let's be clear with our syntax. very good, good and excellent are vastly different terms. he had a good season, sure, i'll take your word for it. but, based on the stats i can see, and testimoney (previously quoted) of packers fans who admitted he got beat on more than a couple of plays, i have a difficult time justifying him as having a very good season.

there being 5 better cornerbacks in the nfc has very little to do with the quality of harris's season.

If he was a top 5 corner in the NFC, I would say that is an excellent season.

i don't think one has any bearing on the other. if there are twenty better corners in the AFC, who cares if he's the second best corner in the nfc? that doesn't really have any specific bearing on the kind of year he's having.

Moses
12-19-2006, 07:18 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

:roll:

let's be clear with our syntax. very good, good and excellent are vastly different terms. he had a good season, sure, i'll take your word for it. but, based on the stats i can see, and testimoney (previously quoted) of packers fans who admitted he got beat on more than a couple of plays, i have a difficult time justifying him as having a very good season.

there being 5 better cornerbacks in the nfc has very little to do with the quality of harris's season.

If he was a top 5 corner in the NFC, I would say that is an excellent season.

i don't think one has any bearing on the other. if there are twenty better corners in the AFC, who cares if he's the second best corner in the nfc? that doesn't really have any specific bearing on the kind of year he's having.

I don't understand that argument at all. Let me put it this way: Name 5 NFC corners who had a better year?

Packman1957
12-19-2006, 07:31 PM
Al Harris is not the best cornerback in the league. However, he is very goodand had an excellent season. The Pro Bowl is stupid and I don't know/care if he deserves to be in it. The point is he is a very good corner who had a very good season. I explained this all in an earlier post which was ignored for the most part.

sorry, the solid but unspectacular posts tend to get ignored. but yes, i agree with that statement.

Wait a second you agree with this statement...LOL. I thought just ten minutes ago you were just saying how Al Harris didn't have the best season. Make up your mind man. Its one or the other.

i missed the bold. fixed.

I don't really understand how you can say that Harris didn't have a good season. I challenge you to name 5 cornerbacks in the NFC who had a better season than him.

:roll:

let's be clear with our syntax. very good, good and excellent are vastly different terms. he had a good season, sure, i'll take your word for it. but, based on the stats i can see, and testimoney (previously quoted) of packers fans who admitted he got beat on more than a couple of plays, i have a difficult time justifying him as having a very good season.

there being 5 better cornerbacks in the nfc has very little to do with the quality of harris's season.

If he was a top 5 corner in the NFC, I would say that is an excellent season.

i don't think one has any bearing on the other. if there are twenty better corners in the AFC, who cares if he's the second best corner in the nfc? that doesn't really have any specific bearing on the kind of year he's having.

I don't understand that argument at all. Let me put it this way: Name 5 NFC corners who had a better year?

Exactly he can't name them. The only one's I can possible think of is maybe Terrance Newman or Lito Sheppard but thats it. Hall certainly did not play better than Harris nor did Barber, but we all know that is f'ed up.

njx9
12-19-2006, 07:37 PM
newman, shepard are as far as i get before it gets a bit murky. sheldon brown's name comes up, but it sounds like he's had a similar year to harris. ronde barber's name comes up, but he hadn't looked good in the few games i'd seen. charles woodson has been called better in this thread. walt harris has looked all right at times (when i've actually bothered watching the 49ers), although i'm not sure he's at the same level.

i still fail to see how perhaps being the 4th or 5th best cb in the NFC means he had an excellent season. does being tied for 5th best in the NFC mean atlanta's having an excellent season? does being in 4th in the nfc mean philly is having am amazing year? i would tend to think no. just because your peers have been mediocre doesn't mean you've been great.

Moses
12-19-2006, 08:30 PM
Alright, name 10 NFL CBs who played better this season. The point is that Al Harris is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and played like it this year.

njx9
12-19-2006, 08:42 PM
better: bailey, newman, mcalister, asomugha, mathis, shepard, woodson
debatable: brown, barber, law, manning

off the top of my head and from what i've seen this season. as was pointed out earlier, i didn't get to see every play al harris made. then again, neither did most packers fans. that applies across the board, i haven't seen every single one of these guys play all season or even most of the season.

i'd certainly be open to listening to a debate that involved someone else pulling the numbers from #1 and #2 receivers against all the teams above. since it seems that most packer fans would just like me to take them at their word rather than quoting anything or pulling video, this isn't really an argument worth continuing.

and just because i see it coming, if you want to make an argument for harris that doesn't involve simply blaming the safeties without anything to back up your opinion, i'd love to hear it. i don't hate harris and i'm not dead set against him. but it's difficult to take seriously the argument that he's fantastic and that the safeties are really to blame for the ugly touchdown numbers when it's just a bunch of green bay fans parroting each other. i looked up some stats, someone else can feel free to do similar.

Moses
12-19-2006, 08:47 PM
better: bailey, newman, mcalister, asomugha, mathis, shepard, woodson
debatable: brown, barber, law, manning

off the top of my head and from what i've seen this season. as was pointed out earlier, i didn't get to see every play al harris made. then again, neither did most packers fans. that applies across the board, i haven't seen every single one of these guys play all season or even most of the season.

i'd certainly be open to listening to a debate that involved someone else pulling the numbers from #1 and #2 receivers against all the teams above. since it seems that most packer fans would just like me to take them at their word rather than quoting anything or pulling video, this isn't really an argument worth continuing.

and just because i see it coming, if you want to make an argument for harris that doesn't involve simply blaming the safeties without anything to back up your opinion, i'd love to hear it. i don't hate harris and i'm not dead set against him. but it's difficult to take seriously the argument that he's fantastic and that the safeties are really to blame for the ugly touchdown numbers when it's just a bunch of green bay fans parroting each other. i looked up some stats, someone else can feel free to do similar.

So let's assume that there are 10 cornerbacks in the league who had a better season than Harris (which is debatable). By my standards, that is an excellent season.

Boston
12-19-2006, 08:55 PM
Week 6: Chris Chambers, 2 catches for 29 yards.
Week 7: Anquan Boldin, 4 catches for 47 yards.
Week 8: Lee Evans, 2 catches for 58 yards and one TD
Week 9: Travis Taylor, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 10: Troy Brown, 4 catches for 26 yards.
Week 11: Darrell Jackson, 2 catches for 20 yards with one TD
Week 12: Lavernious Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 13: Antonio Bryant, 1 catch for 39 yards.
Week 14: Roy Williams, 1 catch for 11 yards.

Each reciever was more than likely covered by Harris one on one for the majority of the game. And it's not like those receivers are back up recievers either.

Pack_Attack_4
12-19-2006, 09:39 PM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down .

weezer1195
12-19-2006, 09:49 PM
Nnamdi Asomugha got 7 interceptions for the raiders but all that got him was a pat on the back. The pro-bowl spots almost always go mostly to players on winning teams who are well known. Thats just the way it is. Most players deserve it but others are there because its a popularity contest. Ex. Deangelo Hall

bearsfan_51
12-19-2006, 09:49 PM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down .
That was a bad argument on page 1 when it was statistically proved false. Try again.

Vikes99ej
12-19-2006, 09:51 PM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down . Good for him.

TitleTown088
12-19-2006, 10:13 PM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down . Good for him.

yeah, that would be good for him. wouldn't it?

Anyways i think everyone should let it go. he didn't make the damn probowl, who cares.

The Unseen
12-19-2006, 10:34 PM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down .

And bunnies rule the world...

PackerMang
12-19-2006, 11:06 PM
Al Harris named a Pro-bowl alternate.

So was Barnett and a bigger suprise is that Brett Favre is also an alternate.

Moses
12-20-2006, 01:22 AM
Al Harris named a Pro-bowl alternate.

So was Barnett and a bigger suprise is that Brett Favre is also an alternate.

Not really considering the weak NFC quarterbacks and Brett's popularity.

yourfavestoner
12-20-2006, 03:50 AM
AL shuts anyones 1st WR down .

You are undoubtedly the biggest homer I have ever seen in my life.

njx9
12-20-2006, 09:46 AM
Week 6: Chris Chambers, 2 catches for 29 yards.
Week 7: Anquan Boldin, 4 catches for 47 yards.
Week 8: Lee Evans, 2 catches for 58 yards and one TD
Week 9: Travis Taylor, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 10: Troy Brown, 4 catches for 26 yards.
Week 11: Darrell Jackson, 2 catches for 20 yards with one TD
Week 12: Lavernious Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 13: Antonio Bryant, 1 catch for 39 yards.
Week 14: Roy Williams, 1 catch for 11 yards.

Each reciever was more than likely covered by Harris one on one for the majority of the game. And it's not like those receivers are back up recievers either.

:roll:

you missed a few. and it IS like troy brown is a back-up receiver for 31 nfl teams. the case could be made that travis taylor is, at best, a #4 receiver. but yeah, creative stat-keeping is always a good way to make someone look better.

week 1 - muhsin muhammad - 6/102
week 2 - joe horn - 5/88
week 3 - roy williams - 7/138/1
week 4 - reggie brown - 3/63
week 5 - torry holt - 3/40/1

johbur
12-20-2006, 12:24 PM
from the jsonline:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=543632

Harris has been pushing his teammate, cornerback Charles Woodson for the Pro Bowl, and with six interceptions it was thought he might have a chance. But Harris was also hoping it was his turn after allowing just 1½ touchdowns despite continually matching up with the opposition's top receiver.

He allowed 2 TDs all of last year, and 1.5 this year through 14 games. That's 30 games and 3.5 TDs given up. That's 1 TD every 8.5 games played. So, even though the Packers have given up 24 passing TDs (per nfl.com), Harris has been responsible for 1.5 TDs given up for the whole year.

In this discussion, anti-Harris players have forgotten about spread formations of 3 or 4 or 5 WRs in which UDFA Patrick Dendy was on the field as the third CB, or that Ahmad Carroll was getting burned so badly through the first four games that he was cut and the Packers took a $1.7 million hit to get rid of him, or that LB Poppinga was exposed early and often in pass coverage. Toss in a 6th round rookie, SS Culver, as the nickel back and another UDFA FS Bush and the holes in the Packers pass coverage are easy to find. Just understand it is not the starting CBs that are the problem.

Oh, and that's from a news source and the NFL website, not from a fan "parroting another fan".

Boston
12-20-2006, 05:47 PM
Week 6: Chris Chambers, 2 catches for 29 yards.
Week 7: Anquan Boldin, 4 catches for 47 yards.
Week 8: Lee Evans, 2 catches for 58 yards and one TD
Week 9: Travis Taylor, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 10: Troy Brown, 4 catches for 26 yards.
Week 11: Darrell Jackson, 2 catches for 20 yards with one TD
Week 12: Lavernious Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards.
Week 13: Antonio Bryant, 1 catch for 39 yards.
Week 14: Roy Williams, 1 catch for 11 yards.

Each reciever was more than likely covered by Harris one on one for the majority of the game. And it's not like those receivers are back up recievers either.

:roll:

you missed a few. and it IS like troy brown is a back-up receiver for 31 nfl teams. the case could be made that travis taylor is, at best, a #4 receiver. but yeah, creative stat-keeping is always a good way to make someone look better.

week 1 - muhsin muhammad - 6/102
week 2 - joe horn - 5/88
week 3 - roy williams - 7/138/1
week 4 - reggie brown - 3/63
week 5 - torry holt - 3/40/1

What about the other recievers? No comment? Yes, he had two bad games all year, according to stats, unless you want to find stats that prove otherwise. Because his peers are mediocre means he's in any way associated?

Yes, the pass defense sucked this year, so to the average eye that would mean that Harris hasn't been very good either. If you look at the stats over each game, i'd bet you that the tight end, or number 3 reciever, was the most productive reciever in each one of those games. You haven't really presented any arguement as to why he shouldn't be considered very good, other than packer fans are homers, and he's gotten beat all the time this year.

I really don't see why it is so hard to see that Harris had a very good season.

jkpigskin
12-20-2006, 07:43 PM
Alright, name 10 NFL CBs who played better this season. The point is that Al Harris is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and played like it this year.

not in order, just numbering to keep track

1. Champ Baily
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAlister
4. Asante Samuel
5. N. Asomuga(i cant spell :oops: )
6. Terrance Newman
7. Anthony Henry
8. Lito Sheppard
9. Ronde Barber
10. his teammate Charles Woodson

Moses
12-20-2006, 07:53 PM
Alright, name 10 NFL CBs who played better this season. The point is that Al Harris is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and played like it this year.

not in order, just numbering to keep track

1. Champ Baily
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAlister
4. Asante Samuel
5. N. Asomuga(i cant spell :oops: )
6. Terrance Newman
7. Anthony Henry
8. Lito Sheppard
9. Ronde Barber
10. his teammate Charles Woodson

A lot of those are debatable. I definitely disagree with Barber, Woodson, and Henry. Even if all 10 of those cornerbacks are better (which they aren't), Harris is still elite.

jkpigskin
12-20-2006, 07:57 PM
Alright, name 10 NFL CBs who played better this season. The point is that Al Harris is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and played like it this year.

not in order, just numbering to keep track

1. Champ Baily
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAlister
4. Asante Samuel
5. N. Asomuga(i cant spell :oops: )
6. Terrance Newman
7. Anthony Henry
8. Lito Sheppard
9. Ronde Barber
10. his teammate Charles Woodson

A lot of those are debatable. I definitely disagree with Barber, Woodson, and Henry. Even if all 10 of those cornerbacks are better (which they aren't), Harris is still elite.

i wouldnt say elite, but very solid....... elite status is where only a few go....... there could be only 1 elite corner in the league while there are a bunch of solid ones............ i agree that many are debatable

Moses
12-20-2006, 08:04 PM
Alright, name 10 NFL CBs who played better this season. The point is that Al Harris is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and played like it this year.

not in order, just numbering to keep track

1. Champ Baily
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAlister
4. Asante Samuel
5. N. Asomuga(i cant spell :oops: )
6. Terrance Newman
7. Anthony Henry
8. Lito Sheppard
9. Ronde Barber
10. his teammate Charles Woodson

A lot of those are debatable. I definitely disagree with Barber, Woodson, and Henry. Even if all 10 of those cornerbacks are better (which they aren't), Harris is still elite.

i wouldnt say elite, but very solid....... elite status is where only a few go....... there could be only 1 elite corner in the league while there are a bunch of solid ones............ i agree that many are debatable

Other than Bailey, Harris is in the same category as all of those cornerbacks anyway. We could argue all day about who is better but they are all at a very similar talent level. Bailey is the best, the others are elite.

njx9
12-21-2006, 07:09 PM
What about the other recievers? No comment? Yes, he had two bad games all year, according to stats, unless you want to find stats that prove otherwise.

why would i comment? i was the one who brought in those stats first. i already commented on them several times. i HIGHLY doubt he's been matched up with the opposing team's #1 receiver, especially since he's apparently (according to at least 3/4 of the packers fans) only responsible for getting beat like, once, and that really, he never apparently has deep responsibility.

Because his peers are mediocre means he's in any way associated?

what? either you completely misapplied an argument i made, or you're extremely confused about something.

Yes, the pass defense sucked this year, so to the average eye that would mean that Harris hasn't been very good either. If you look at the stats over each game, i'd bet you that the tight end, or number 3 reciever, was the most productive reciever in each one of those games.

that's demonstratably not true. the ONLY game i remember the TE being the leading receiver for was the new england game, but then, ben watson was clearly their best receiver. it's too bad al harris (from the last time i brought up the stats) wasn't capable of covering him and was wasted on either troy brown or reche caldwell. *shrug*

You haven't really presented any arguement as to why he shouldn't be considered very good, other than packer fans are homers, and he's gotten beat all the time this year.

neither of which have been my argument. he's been beat a few times this year. to blame every single one on the safeties, as people tried to do earlier, is just ridiculous. i pointed that out. i've asked for printed articles or video on youtube of him covering ANYONE at least 20 times now and none of you have responded. which is funny after i was accused of skipping over providing certain information.

I really don't see why it is so hard to see that Harris had a very good season.

because no one but packer fans has said it. if every broncos fan said gerard warren was the best DT in the history of the game, do you think that would be very credible? then why in god's name should i take 6 packer fans at their word, when they consistently refuse to quote ANYONE who agrees with them in the press?