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View Full Version : Paul Oliver is a Charger


akvikefan89
07-12-2007, 12:50 PM
POSTED 1:47 p.m. EDT, July 12, 2007
CHARGERS TAKE OLIVER
A league source tells us that the San Diego Chargers have selected cornerback Paul Oliver in round four of the supplemental draft.
The process is now in round five.
Stay tuned.




From ProFootballTalk.com

JF4
07-12-2007, 12:52 PM
Interesting, good pick up by the Chargers.

EdReedUnstoppable
07-12-2007, 12:53 PM
Chargers have a nice couple of CBs, at least as far as potential goes, with Cromartie and now Oliver.

Shane P. Hallam
07-12-2007, 12:55 PM
Don't forget Cletis Gordon...

princefielder28
07-12-2007, 01:10 PM
Chargers and Ravens both got steals today

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 01:11 PM
So what does this mean? Do have to give up a 4th round draft pick in next years draft?

bigrich88
07-12-2007, 01:12 PM
Chargers and Ravens both got steals today


definitely, both would've been strongly considered for first round in 2008 draft.

princefielder28
07-12-2007, 01:12 PM
So what does this mean? Do have to give up a 4th round draft pick in next years draft?

They forfeit those specific picks in next year's draft

akvikefan89
07-12-2007, 01:12 PM
So what does this mean? Do have to give up a 4th round draft pick in next years draft?

Yes.
___________________

Shane P. Hallam
07-12-2007, 01:12 PM
So what does this mean? Do have to give up a 4th round draft pick in next years draft?

Yup, you won't have a 4th next year.

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 01:14 PM
Yup, you won't have a 4th next year.

I guss that's worth it then if he could possibly have been a 1st next year

LarryJohnson27
07-12-2007, 01:14 PM
This is why AJ Smith and Ozzie Newsom are two of the best.

kmartin575
07-12-2007, 01:28 PM
This is why AJ Smith and Ozzie Newsom are two of the best.

And why Carl Peterson will never win the big one.

EdReedUnstoppable
07-12-2007, 01:54 PM
ESPN says Green Bay took Oliver in the 4th.

Nevermind must be a typo in the title in the actual article it says San Diego got him.

CC.SD
07-12-2007, 02:01 PM
ESPN says Green Bay took Oliver in the 4th.

Nevermind must be a typo in the title in the actual article it says San Diego got him.

Somebody at ESPN must be a daydreaming cheesehead.

This is a good pickup; Florence and Jammer are solid starters, and Cromartie's waiting in the wings, but beyond that there's not much; Gordon and Gregory have not had a chance to do much.

remix 6
07-12-2007, 02:27 PM
And why Carl Peterson will never win the big one.

neither will AJ Smith.

nbarnett56
07-12-2007, 02:29 PM
ESPN says Green Bay took Oliver in the 4th.

Nevermind must be a typo in the title in the actual article it says San Diego got him.

Yeah I saw that at 1st as well, they must have thought that the Packers were going to take him lol.

KCJ58
07-12-2007, 02:36 PM
i don't get it they have Cromartie

nbarnett56
07-12-2007, 02:39 PM
i don't get it they have Cromartie

Drayton Florence is a free agent after this season. He had already stated that he wished to test the free agent market. To me they panic'd and went after Oliver who with Jammer and Cromartie starting, Oliver would hopefully be ready to play nickleback next season.

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 02:40 PM
i don't get it they have Cromartie

Oliver will be the #4 CB this year. After next year Florence will leave and CROmartie will be #2 and Oliver will be #3.

BaLLiN
07-12-2007, 02:43 PM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t176/adan_063/prod.gif
Im just guessing on the #. I wish the giants would've gotten him.

T-RICH49
07-12-2007, 02:51 PM
And why Carl Peterson will never win the big one.

yep he had a chancer to do something big especiallyu when CB and OL are STILL NEEDS!!!!!F U CARL!!!!!

CC.SD
07-12-2007, 02:52 PM
neither will AJ Smith.

I'd bet on that. This Charger team is young as hell. There are only 4 starters who are 30, and one of them is a fullback. Rivers is only going into his second starting year, Merriman his third, LT is in his prime, etc. etc.

SuperKevin
07-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Great pick for the Chargers. He should be the dime back from Day 1

SuperKevin
07-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Paul Oliver is better than any CB they would have got in round 4 next year anyway and this way he gets an extra year of experience

kmartin575
07-12-2007, 03:47 PM
I guess the only thing I can look forward to is that unless the Chargers get some supplemental picks next year then they currently don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick for next year.

Xenos
07-12-2007, 04:29 PM
I guess the only thing I can look forward to is that unless the Chargers get some supplemental picks next year then they currently don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick for next year.

They're gonna get something for Donnie Edwards

HoopsDemon12
07-12-2007, 04:48 PM
to be fair there are very little areas of need for you guys... waht do you have reciever, MLB, safety?

CC.SD
07-12-2007, 04:51 PM
They're gonna get something for Donnie Edwards

Probably the 4th we just gave up.

Splat
07-12-2007, 05:11 PM
And why Carl Peterson will never win the big one.

Only one supplemental drafted player has went to the pro bowl (Chris Carter) calm down not that big of a deal.

San Diego Chicken
07-12-2007, 05:21 PM
Don't we play Detroit this year? Cottrell should double team Calvin Johnson with Oliver and Weddle over the top. Kidding, but I think A.J. found good value here. He seems to be changing his draft mentality lately though, devaluing his future draft choices.

San Diego Chicken
07-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Only one supplemental drafted player has went to the pro bowl (Chris Carter) calm down not that big of a deal.


Actually I think quite a few players have gone to the pro bowl from the supp. draft, Jamal Williams being one off of the top of my head.

If I remember correctly, Bernie Kosar was also a supplemental draft choice. Those guys were probably graded out much higher than Oliver though.

kmartin575
07-12-2007, 05:23 PM
They're gonna get something for Donnie Edwards

Not a whole lot though. Edwards only signed a $12 or $13 million contract.

kmartin575
07-12-2007, 05:23 PM
Only one supplemental drafted player has went to the pro bowl (Chris Carter) calm down not that big of a deal.

Jamal Williams
Mike Wahle

HoopsDemon12
07-12-2007, 05:31 PM
i don't get it they have Cromartie

ya bu their other corners have not been overly spectacular... he will be good and he has time to develop aswell

Splat
07-12-2007, 05:33 PM
I would much rather have a 4th round pick in the 08 Draft then draft a supplemental player the odds are much better IMO of getting good value in the real draft.

kmartin575
07-12-2007, 05:39 PM
I would much rather have a 4th round pick in the 08 Draft then draft a supplemental player the odds are much better IMO of getting good value in the real draft.

Sorry but I don't agree at all. Oliver was the top rated senior corner along with Cason. He would have likely gone in the 1st round next year. By the time our 4th round pick comes around in the regular draft next year we are going to be drafting a player who is available in the 4th round for a reason other than academic issues, such as he just isn't that good. Not to mention, we already likely have two 4th round picks for next year anyways.

Smooth Criminal
07-12-2007, 06:06 PM
Only one supplemental drafted player has went to the pro bowl (Chris Carter) calm down not that big of a deal.


Wrong.

Jamal Williams has gone to two Pro Bowls and was selected in the 1998 Supplemental Draft.

BrownsTown
07-12-2007, 06:10 PM
Wrong.

Jamal Williams has gone to two Pro Bowls and was selected in the 1998 Supplemental Draft.

And Bernie Kosar is one of the greatest QBs in Browns history.

Xenos
07-12-2007, 06:48 PM
Don't we play Detroit this year? Cottrell should double team Calvin Johnson with Oliver and Weddle over the top. Kidding, but I think A.J. found good value here. He seems to be changing his draft mentality lately though, devaluing his future draft choices.

It's kinda necessary that he changes his draft principle slightly. There's really no more room for draft picks in the later rounds due to how many players are already signed on this team. We believe we currently have like 49 players on the roster already, excluding the draft picks. As the talent level on this team increases so too will the number of draft picks that can make this team. It's the reason why AJ was willing to risk those draft picks on Weddle and why he's willing to give up a 4th for Oliver. This team doesn't have that many holes left.

Xenos
07-12-2007, 06:49 PM
Not a whole lot though. Edwards only signed a $12 or $13 million contract.

It's not only the contract that affects the compensatory draft pick, but also how the player performs during the season and other FA that SD pick up. Seeing as how we didn't pick up any other FA, and barring a major injury from Donnie, I can see us picking up at least a 4th for him.

D-Unit
07-12-2007, 07:01 PM
This is why AJ Smith and Ozzie Newsom are two of the best.
Nice connection!

simms2clayton
07-12-2007, 07:37 PM
I like this pickup even from a depth standpoint with Oliver.

Yes they have Cromartie and Jammer, but the thing with San Diego (like I made my point when I predicted they were gonna take Gaither) is that a 4th round draft pick might barely make their roster next year.

Oliver gives them potentially great depth at the CB position....IS SAN DIEGO THINKING HE COULD PLAY FREE SAFETY?????

remix 6
07-12-2007, 07:58 PM
I'd bet on that. This Charger team is young as hell. There are only 4 starters who are 30, and one of them is a fullback. Rivers is only going into his second starting year, Merriman his third, LT is in his prime, etc. etc.

Patriots have always had a lot of vets starting..we won. younger teams didnt

you fired a good coach..wasnt his fault u lost to us. i understand whos on your team...i can tell whos a pro bowler and not but colts couldnt do it with Peyton and Harrison in their prime with Edge-Wayne-Freeney to name other great players on their team.


Chargers have a nice team but a mistake in the coaching decision .

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 08:03 PM
Patriots have always had a lot of vets starting..we won. younger teams didnt

you fired a good coach..wasnt his fault u lost to us. i understand whos on your team...i can tell whos a pro bowler and not but colts couldnt do it with Peyton and Harrison in their prime with Edge-Wayne-Freeney to name other great players on their team.


Chargers have a nice team but a mistake in the coaching decision .

The thing is that Marty has a history of losing in the playoffs just like that. When our DC and OC left for other teams, it was tough because they did all the playcalling and AJ Smith knew that Marty would be pretty much lost without them so we made the right choice and hired a guy that really knew our offense and a DC that really knew our defense

CC.SD
07-12-2007, 08:44 PM
Chargers have a nice team but a mistake in the coaching decision .

The marty curse is still alive, and we lost that game due to horrible coaching; 4th and 11, going for it instead of taking the lead and getting Kaeding warmed up. Horrific play calling that took the ball out of LT's hands. The worst challenge in the history of challenges when we needed our timeouts. There's a huge list.

Basically, with even competent coaching that game would not have been close. It's a Marty tradition to melt down in the playoffs. Replacing him with a guy who knows how to call plays, especially after our coordinators abandoned ship, is not a downgrade. This is the last I'm going to speak on this topic, at least until the season starts, but basically if you don't think the Bolts are serious contenders to win it all, you are in denial.

The media doesn't like Norv. Oh well. The media thinks Donte Stallworth, Wes Welker, and a Randy who hasn't done anything in years constitutes an "elite" group of WRs as well.

remix 6
07-12-2007, 09:08 PM
The marty curse is still alive, and we lost that game due to horrible coaching; 4th and 11, going for it instead of taking the lead and getting Kaeding warmed up. Horrific play calling that took the ball out of LT's hands. The worst challenge in the history of challenges when we needed our timeouts. There's a huge list.

Basically, with even competent coaching that game would not have been close. It's a Marty tradition to melt down in the playoffs. Replacing him with a guy who knows how to call plays, especially after our coordinators abandoned ship, is not a downgrade. This is the last I'm going to speak on this topic, at least until the season starts, but basically if you don't think the Bolts are serious contenders to win it all, you are in denial.

The media doesn't like Norv. Oh well. The media thinks Donte Stallworth, Wes Welker, and a Randy who hasn't done anything in years constitutes an "elite" group of WRs as well.

you lost to a better team ..and because mistakes. did Marty tell McCree to fumble? Did he tell Rivers to throw a pick? How about telling Merriman to get shutdown most of the game? Or did he tell Jammer to get beat by Caldwell? Or did he tell Drayton to headbutt?

thats all player mistakes and performance. Had the players played better or less mistakes by the individuals, you would of had the better shot of winning. im not in denial. like i said..i think Chargers are easily a top 3-5 team this year aswell as last but the coaching move was terrible imo. media doesnt like Norv? He hasnt been a winning coach and you couldnt retain Phillips or Cameron. if you wanted to get rid of Schot, then raise 1 of your coordinators up who know the team, who were there when you fell in playoffs and they could fix mistakes and get better. i know it seems like Norv just has to come in and keep things in check since the roster looks good but u dont replace a winning HC for mistakes not his fault. Also bringing in a Tampa 2 defensive Cord to coach the defense? Your a 3-4..you should bring someone who knows the 3-4 well wether inside or outside of your team

last time i'll say it: I do think Bolts are serious contenders but the coaching change might come back to bite u.oh and the Elite WR thing..i would say its "Elite" compared to what we had last year. Theres big IFs with these guys. IF Randy will play hard. IF Stallworth will get healthy. however, compared to last year, our WRs are far more superior but an elite group in the league? Not until they prove it.

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 10:07 PM
you lost to a better team ..and because mistakes. did Marty tell McCree to fumble? Did he tell Rivers to throw a pick? How about telling Merriman to get shutdown most of the game? Or did he tell Jammer to get beat by Caldwell? Or did he tell Drayton to headbutt?

thats all player mistakes and performance. Had the players played better or less mistakes by the individuals, you would of had the better shot of winning. im not in denial. like i said..i think Chargers are easily a top 3-5 team this year aswell as last but the coaching move was terrible imo. media doesnt like Norv? He hasnt been a winning coach and you couldnt retain Phillips or Cameron. if you wanted to get rid of Schot, then raise 1 of your coordinators up who know the team, who were there when you fell in playoffs and they could fix mistakes and get better. i know it seems like Norv just has to come in and keep things in check since the roster looks good but u dont replace a winning HC for mistakes not his fault. Also bringing in a Tampa 2 defensive Cord to coach the defense? Your a 3-4..you should bring someone who knows the 3-4 well wether inside or outside of your team

last time i'll say it: I do think Bolts are serious contenders but the coaching change might come back to bite u.oh and the Elite WR thing..i would say its "Elite" compared to what we had last year. Theres big IFs with these guys. IF Randy will play hard. IF Stallworth will get healthy. however, compared to last year, our WRs are far more superior but an elite group in the league? Not until they prove it.

Marty has lost that way his whole coaching career in the playoffs and there was no reason to believe that wouldn't continue to happen. With the team we have, we expect to go deep into the playoffs and possibly win the super-bowl. Marty obviously can't do that and thats why he was canned. Ted Cottrel has run the 3-4 defense before and it is nearly the same defense that Phillips ran when he was with us. He even left in the majority of the plays from last year aswell.

someone447
07-12-2007, 10:58 PM
ESPN says Green Bay took Oliver in the 4th.

Nevermind must be a typo in the title in the actual article it says San Diego got him.

Maybe they are hedging there bets?

JK17
07-12-2007, 11:30 PM
you lost to a better team ..and because mistakes. did Marty tell McCree to fumble? Did he tell Rivers to throw a pick? How about telling Merriman to get shutdown most of the game? Or did he tell Jammer to get beat by Caldwell? Or did he tell Drayton to headbutt?

No, we didn't lose to a better team, you werent close to a better team last year. We lost to a more experienced team last year. Those mistakes you mentioned, are all the results of poor coaching and poor preparation. You could just as easily say Marty and the coaching staff told them to go for it on 4th and 11, play a laid back defense going into halftime, didn't have the secondary focused. The only thing you mentioned there that could go against the players is Merriman and Rivers. Rivers played a great game, his receivers choked, and Merriman was outschemed. That's two things, but the Patriots were not more talented, they were better prepared.

thats all player mistakes and performance. Had the players played better or less mistakes by the individuals, you would of had the better shot of winning.
Or if Marty didn't take his headphones off and let his coordinators run the game. If Cameron gives the ball to LT more then 9 times in the second half, that game just might end differnet. If Wade brings the pressure before the half ends, you guys don't score on a prevent defense. Those are coaching things, that screwed us over.

im not in denial. like i said..i think Chargers are easily a top 3-5 team this year aswell as last but the coaching move was terrible imo. media doesnt like Norv? He hasnt been a winning coach and you couldnt retain Phillips or Cameron. if you wanted to get rid of Schot, then raise 1 of your coordinators up who know the team, who were there when you fell in playoffs and they could fix mistakes and get better.

First of all, I'll skip all the Norv had bad teams, and thats why he couldnt win, although its true, its just something he still hasn't done, so it doesn't matter. Why do you think we would want to retain Phillips or Cameron to be Head Coach? They're both good coordinators, and to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Phillips as HC, but what did Cameron show? He didn't know how to win in the playoffs, he saw his offense shut itself down by shying away from LT. If we don't make Cameron HC he walks, so thats something I'm fine with. Now if we make Phillips HC, and Cameron is gone, who calls the plays? Clarence Shelmon is our OC now, but thanks to Norv being Head Coach, we don't have to worry about having someone screwup our offense like Shelmon mihgt have. Bring in Norv Turner, now you have the same offensive system, with the guy who practically created it in San Diego. Look at what Norv Turner did for Frank Gore and Alex Smith, and just imagine what he'll do for LT and Philip Rivers....Norv being hired as HC is to ensure the offense stays at the level it was at. Now there's the inevitable problem at defense, but here's what they do...Bring in Cotrell to keep the 3-4, and then have Rivera, a HC candidate, and defensive coordinator for the #1/#2 defense in the league the past few years, and you have defensive stability too. The three of them working together give me confidence I didn't have in Marty. Oh and they also have more Superbowl hardware/experience as coaches.


i know it seems like Norv just has to come in and keep things in check since the roster looks good but u dont replace a winning HC for mistakes not his fault. Also bringing in a Tampa 2 defensive Cord to coach the defense? Your a 3-4..you should bring someone who knows the 3-4 well wether inside or outside of your team

Norv is there to maintian stability, so your right. I don't think thats a bad thing though. Cotrell can run the 3-4 defense, and its the same one Wade Phillips ran. He knows how to run it, and Rivera is there to a) learn it, and b) teach these guys things that they didn't have under Phillips.

last time i'll say it: I do think Bolts are serious contenders but the coaching change might come back to bite u.oh and the Elite WR thing..i would say its "Elite" compared to what we had last year. Theres big IFs with these guys. IF Randy will play hard. IF Stallworth will get healthy. however, compared to last year, our WRs are far more superior but an elite group in the league? Not until they prove it.

Won't get into the Pats WR core, I don't have any knocks on them right now except what you just said. The Bolts are serious contenders, I just don't think the coaching change will ruin that. I'm an AJ supporter though, and have confidence in the guys running it though, so thats where we're gonna differ on that.





Oh and on topic, I hear rumors of Oliver going to San Diego, but didn't think they'd come true, mainly because he wouldn't be a #1/#2 guy anytime soon. I'm assuming this is to play nickelback and give us depth once Florence leaves for Free Agency. Either way, I like this pick, it gives us a great talent in a fourth round pick. Normally I love the depth picks but lately the guys drafted later for the Chargers are just depth anyway. What we got was good secondary depth that is way better then we coudl've gotten in round 4 next year.

Xenos
07-13-2007, 12:55 AM
you lost to a better team ..and because mistakes. did Marty tell McCree to fumble? Did he tell Rivers to throw a pick? How about telling Merriman to get shutdown most of the game? Or did he tell Jammer to get beat by Caldwell? Or did he tell Drayton to headbutt?

thats all player mistakes and performance. Had the players played better or less mistakes by the individuals, you would of had the better shot of winning. im not in denial. like i said..i think Chargers are easily a top 3-5 team this year aswell as last but the coaching move was terrible imo. media doesnt like Norv? He hasnt been a winning coach and you couldnt retain Phillips or Cameron. if you wanted to get rid of Schot, then raise 1 of your coordinators up who know the team, who were there when you fell in playoffs and they could fix mistakes and get better. i know it seems like Norv just has to come in and keep things in check since the roster looks good but u dont replace a winning HC for mistakes not his fault. Also bringing in a Tampa 2 defensive Cord to coach the defense? Your a 3-4..you should bring someone who knows the 3-4 well wether inside or outside of your team

last time i'll say it: I do think Bolts are serious contenders but the coaching change might come back to bite u.oh and the Elite WR thing..i would say its "Elite" compared to what we had last year. Theres big IFs with these guys. IF Randy will play hard. IF Stallworth will get healthy. however, compared to last year, our WRs are far more superior but an elite group in the league? Not until they prove it.

What I find hilarious about all this arguing is that NE also hired a coach with a losing record. I'm not saying Norv will ever be like Bill, but the guy had a horrendous tenure at Cleveland before he came to NE. And if I recall his first year there, he went 5-11. He didn't start winning until a certain QB was drafted...
But seriously though, if anything it shows that talent is often more important than coaching. Look at George Siefert with the 49ners and Barry Switzer with the Cowboys. I think people are going to eating their words just like they were when they proclaim our doom after Brees left and Rivers took over.

Iamcanadian
07-13-2007, 08:49 AM
What I find hilarious about all this arguing is that NE also hired a coach with a losing record. I'm not saying Norv will ever be like Bill, but the guy had a horrendous tenure at Cleveland before he came to NE. And if I recall his first year there, he went 5-11. He didn't start winning until a certain QB was drafted...
But seriously though, if anything it shows that talent is often more important than coaching. Look at George Siefert with the 49ners and Barry Switzer with the Cowboys. I think people are going to eating their words just like they were when they proclaim our doom after Brees left and Rivers took over.

Great coaches need talent to win the Super Bowl, that I agree with. However great coaches still make the playoffs more often than not with inferior talent. Rotten HC's like Turner cannot win with or without talent. There is probably too much talent on San Diego for it not to win 10 games and in that Division, it should be enough for 1st place, but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again. They have absolutely no hope of winning a Super Bowl under his tutelage.
BB had some success in Cleveland but realized that the team had to be rebuilt to make it into a serious contender. He was prepared to have a few losing seasons to rebuild the franchise as are almost all the great HC's if it leads to a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, the Cleveland fan base and owner didn't have the patience. If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land.

SJ-The_Predator
07-13-2007, 08:51 AM
I guess the rich get richer.
Oliver is at least a 2nd round pick in next year draft.
SD getting him is even worse.

JK17
07-13-2007, 09:54 AM
Great coaches need talent to win the Super Bowl, that I agree with. However great coaches still make the playoffs more often than not with inferior talent. Rotten HC's like Turner cannot win with or without talent. There is probably too much talent on San Diego for it not to win 10 games and in that Division, it should be enough for 1st place, but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again. They have absolutely no hope of winning a Super Bowl under his tutelage.
BB had some success in Cleveland but realized that the team had to be rebuilt to make it into a serious contender. He was prepared to have a few losing seasons to rebuild the franchise as are almost all the great HC's if it leads to a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, the Cleveland fan base and owner didn't have the patience. If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land.


What, you speak for Bellichek? You knew he needed the franchise to rebuild, but it was the Cleveland fan base and owners who wouldn't let him do it?

Not to mention Turner has had success at other stops in the league, for periods of time (He did make the playoffs in Washington), so you can't just walk in and say its impossible for Turner to do the same thing Bellichek did. I'm not saying they are the same coaches, or that Turner will be as good, but you're basing that on what?

CC.SD
07-13-2007, 09:58 AM
What, you speak for Bellichek? You knew he needed the franchise to rebuild, but it was the Cleveland fan base and owners who wouldn't let him do it?

Not to mention Turner has had success at other stops in the league, for periods of time (He did make the playoffs in Washington), so you can't just walk in and say its impossible for Turner to do the same thing Bellichek did. I'm not saying they are the same coaches, or that Turner will be as good, but you're basing that on what?


Just let it go, there's no convincing anyone. Apparently once you fail for Snyder and Davis, you will never have success anywhere for the rest of your life. The upcoming season will dispel all arguments.

Average OT LB
07-13-2007, 05:55 PM
What, you speak for Bellichek? You knew he needed the franchise to rebuild, but it was the Cleveland fan base and owners who wouldn't let him do it?

Not to mention Turner has had success at other stops in the league, for periods of time (He did make the playoffs in Washington), so you can't just walk in and say its impossible for Turner to do the same thing Bellichek did. I'm not saying they are the same coaches, or that Turner will be as good, but you're basing that on what?

I dont want to admit it but he could very well be correct. Although he seems to be speaking a little to direct and self assured, his hypothesis could ultimately end up as the way our franchise unfolds these next few years. I for one hope that is not true, but seeing as though i dont like turner its hard to keep a straight face when talking about a super bowl. Marty couldnt get us there and he was one hell of a coach. I know he had his problems, but still if he couldnt do it with the overwhelming talent we had, can turner? I dont know whats gonna happen, but i do know i wouldnt bet on us gettin to the show this year despite the fact we got leaders and talent in all the right places purely because of turner.

CC.SD
07-13-2007, 09:42 PM
I dont want to admit it but he could very well be correct. Although he seems to be speaking a little to direct and self assured, his hypothesis could ultimately end up as the way our franchise unfolds these next few years. I for one hope that is not true, but seeing as though i dont like turner its hard to keep a straight face when talking about a super bowl. Marty couldnt get us there and he was one hell of a coach. I know he had his problems, but still if he couldnt do it with the overwhelming talent we had, can turner? I dont know whats gonna happen, but i do know i wouldnt bet on us gettin to the show this year despite the fact we got leaders and talent in all the right places purely because of turner.

Turner specializes in making quarterbacks productive and making offenses run like clockwork. Marty was a good inspirational guy, but that obviously didn't get it done. Saying Norv could slowly unravel our franchise" is completely unfounded. It's not a rebuilding situation, it's a "let a mastermind play with the best toys in the league" situation.

JK17
07-13-2007, 11:06 PM
I dont want to admit it but he could very well be correct. Although he seems to be speaking a little to direct and self assured, his hypothesis could ultimately end up as the way our franchise unfolds these next few years. I for one hope that is not true, but seeing as though i dont like turner its hard to keep a straight face when talking about a super bowl. Marty couldnt get us there and he was one hell of a coach. I know he had his problems, but still if he couldnt do it with the overwhelming talent we had, can turner? I dont know whats gonna happen, but i do know i wouldnt bet on us gettin to the show this year despite the fact we got leaders and talent in all the right places purely because of turner.

I'm not trying to guaratee Norv will do anything at all in San Diego...

But statements' first off like 10 wins "should win" a division which also features Denver, or

"but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again"

and

"If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land."

are both completely unfounded and based purely on his own personal opinion, not fact as he presents it to be.

Furthermore, speaking on behalf of Bill Bellichek and what he had in store, or what he could have done if the Browns hadn't been fed up with him, is something no one knows, so where's the evidence to back that up?

CC.SD
07-14-2007, 01:15 AM
I'm not trying to guaratee Norv will do anything at all in San Diego...

But statements' first off like 10 wins "should win" a division which also features Denver, or

"but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again"

and

"If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land."

are both completely unfounded and based purely on his own personal opinion, not fact as he presents it to be.

Furthermore, speaking on behalf of Bill Bellichek and what he had in store, or what he could have done if the Browns hadn't been fed up with him, is something no one knows, so where's the evidence to back that up?


Seriously dude it's not even worth arguing. In 2004, it was "they're the Chargers, they're not actually good." In 2005 it was "They were a one year wonder." In 2006 it was "Their new quarterback sucks." and now it is going to be Norv in 2007. Next year they won't be able to repeat their success or something, and the year after that, LT will be too old. There will always be reasons for the Bolts not to be good enough for everyone outside San Diego.

Average OT LB
07-14-2007, 01:19 AM
I'm not trying to guaratee Norv will do anything at all in San Diego...

But statements' first off like 10 wins "should win" a division which also features Denver, or

"but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again"

and

"If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land."

are both completely unfounded and based purely on his own personal opinion, not fact as he presents it to be.

Furthermore, speaking on behalf of Bill Bellichek and what he had in store, or what he could have done if the Browns hadn't been fed up with him, is something no one knows, so where's the evidence to back that up?

I didnt know Johnnie cochran was a charger fan, but im glad he is. Furthermore, speaking on behalf of the Charger fan base Turner is exactly ChargerCohen put it, a mastermind with the best toys in the league. I have no doubt that offensively we will be as explosive as last year, my only worry is that (since marty was a great D coach, and we lost wade) our defense might suffer. I dont want to be that 9-7 charger team that couldnt stop anyone.

JK17
07-14-2007, 02:48 PM
I didnt know Johnnie cochran was a charger fan, but im glad he is. Furthermore, speaking on behalf of the Charger fan base Turner is exactly ChargerCohen put it, a mastermind with the best toys in the league. I have no doubt that offensively we will be as explosive as last year, my only worry is that (since marty was a great D coach, and we lost wade) our defense might suffer. I dont want to be that 9-7 charger team that couldnt stop anyone.

That's obviously the biggest concern with bringing in Norv, is how the defense will do (that and the motivational aspect). If we didn't bring in Rivera, to have Cotrell and Rivera run the D, I'd be more concerned. I don't want to sound like the typical homer saying "nothing is gonna hurt us, every move makes us better". Losing Philips as our D Coordinator certainly does not help us, it puts a question mark there that we don't want with a defense that was continually improving and growing as they get more experience. I think Cotrell and Rivera together though can limit the loss we had from Wade.

Xenos
07-14-2007, 05:15 PM
I didnt know Johnnie cochran was a charger fan, but im glad he is. Furthermore, speaking on behalf of the Charger fan base Turner is exactly ChargerCohen put it, a mastermind with the best toys in the league. I have no doubt that offensively we will be as explosive as last year, my only worry is that (since marty was a great D coach, and we lost wade) our defense might suffer. I dont want to be that 9-7 charger team that couldnt stop anyone.

Norv shown he can do it before when he was with the Cowboys. Obviously, he wasn't the HC, but Jimmy Johnson gave him complete control of the offense. We have all the pieces in place now, we can make a run for it. Heck, our offense is going to be even better next year. Cameron was the student implementing Norv's schemes. And now Norv is going to use that and more so to improve this offense to a ridiculous level. The defense is also going to continue to thrive with Rivera as linebacker coach, and Cottrell.

Xenos
07-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Great coaches need talent to win the Super Bowl, that I agree with. However great coaches still make the playoffs more often than not with inferior talent. Rotten HC's like Turner cannot win with or without talent. There is probably too much talent on San Diego for it not to win 10 games and in that Division, it should be enough for 1st place, but each year Turner coaches the team, it will continue to deteriorate until they are a bottom feeder again. They have absolutely no hope of winning a Super Bowl under his tutelage.
BB had some success in Cleveland but realized that the team had to be rebuilt to make it into a serious contender. He was prepared to have a few losing seasons to rebuild the franchise as are almost all the great HC's if it leads to a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, the Cleveland fan base and owner didn't have the patience. If you think Turner is going to lead San Diego anywhere but down, I think your living in fantasy land.

from wikipedia:
Cleveland Browns
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland he compiled a 36-44 record, leading the team to a sole playoff win in 1994. Many fans in Cleveland think of him as an uncommunicative, dictatorial and arrogant coach who benched and then cut much-beloved quarterback Bernie Kosar in 1993 in order to replace him with journeyman Vinny Testaverde, a move that sparked great controversy in the area. In Belichick's last season in Cleveland the Browns finished 5-11.

People mainly focus on Norv's stint in Washington and Oakland to prove their point. It's a good point but it's not the end all argument otherwise coaches like Belicheck would have no job at all. Don't give me that rebuilding nonsense because Belicheck was in Cleveland for five years and went to the playoff exactly one time during that period. Just like Norv did with Washington.
And I should point out that Norv was not the reason for his team's decline after he became HC. When he took over for Washington, their record the prior season was 4-12. The same thing with Oakland (which almost everyone knows is a death trap for coaches). He simply was stuck with medicore and aging talent, coupled with bad owners. Heck even though he had straight back to back 4-12 seasons with Oakland, their offense was actually better during those years than they were last season.

CC.SD
07-14-2007, 09:30 PM
I agree that bringing in Rivera is a hugely underrated move. The bears defense under his control was nothing to sneeze at, no matter how much of it was Lovie.

Xenos
07-14-2007, 11:23 PM
The order of the supplemental draft:
strangely enough, look which team came after SD

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/suppdraft071207.htm

2007 Supplemental Draft order

1. Oakland
2. Miami
3. Washington
4. Arizona
5. Detroit
6. Houston
7. Cleveland
8. Minnesota
9. Tampa Bay
10. Denver
11. Jacksonville
12. Tennessee
13. Cincinnati
14. St. Louis
15. Pittsburgh
16. San Francisco
17. Buffalo
18. Carolina
19. Green Bay
20. Atlanta
21. New York Giants
22. Kansas City
23. New Orleans
24. Philadelphia
25. Dallas
26. New York Jets
27. Seattle
28. San Diego
29. New England
30. Chicago
31. Baltimore
32. Indianapolis

draftguru151
07-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Dang, 2nd pick and we don't take anyone.

CC.SD
07-15-2007, 12:27 AM
Dang, 2nd pick and we don't take anyone.

Isn't the Trent Green deal conditional? What happens if you draft somebody in the supplemental, and then conditions get met and the team no longer has that pick?

Gridiron
07-15-2007, 12:37 AM
I'd assume that you simply aren't allowed to use one of those picks.

draftguru151
07-15-2007, 12:48 AM
Isn't the Trent Green deal conditional? What happens if you draft somebody in the supplemental, and then conditions get met and the team no longer has that pick?

No idea, I thought of this before. I'm assuming you either can't use both or can only use the latter and the pick is automatically escalated.