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remix 6
07-13-2007, 01:19 PM
6 years $72 million per ESPN

Moses
07-13-2007, 01:20 PM
I never liked him. Spin moves are a big no-no in my book. I don't think one-dimensional DEs are worth long-term contracts because they tend to decline rapidly.

BrownsTown
07-13-2007, 01:23 PM
He deserves it. Amazing player.

Splat
07-13-2007, 01:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2935483

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:25 PM
Excellent, now the franchise tag can be used on Sanders at season's end.

neko4
07-13-2007, 01:31 PM
WHAT!?!? that much for freeney, hes not even that good, maybe the Colt's best DE, but still not worth half that much

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:32 PM
I never liked him. Spin moves are a big no-no in my book. I don't think one-dimensional DEs are worth long-term contracts because they tend to decline rapidly.

Have you ever actually watched him play his gap, or are you judging him based on highlights in which he's normally asked to take the outside route, abandon his gap, and try to sack the QB?

neko4
07-13-2007, 01:35 PM
He played 16 games this year, got 6 sacks, his stats were no better than KGB's and he doesnt make the big sacks in the big situations

Moses
07-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Have you ever actually watched him play his gap, or are you judging him based on highlights in which he's normally asked to take the outside route, abandon his gap, and try to sack the QB?

I've seen him play plenty. Find me one defensive line coach who endorses spinning. Find me one person who thinks that Freeney isn't one-dimensional. He rushes the passer very well, but that's about it. KGB did the same a few years ago, and look at him now.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 01:37 PM
I never liked him. Spin moves are a big no-no in my book. I don't think one-dimensional DEs are worth long-term contracts because they tend to decline rapidly.

ala KGB!!!! he is a good player but the contract is to long IMO

neko4
07-13-2007, 01:40 PM
ala KGB!!!! he is a good player but the contract is to long IMO

Correct! Evantually he'll get old and lose his pass rush ability and then he'll have nothing

Moses
07-13-2007, 01:41 PM
Correct! Evantually he'll get old and lose his pass rush ability and then he'll have nothing

Players and teams adapt to one-dimensional players. If all you do is rush the outside, they're going to adapt and stop you. That's why guys like Strahan who are so versatile are deadly.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 01:45 PM
Players and teams adapt to one-dimensional players. If all you do is rush the outside, they're going to adapt and stop you. That's why guys like Strahan who are so versatile are deadly.

Thats why pass rushers like merriman who have more than a spin... last so dam long... cause even when he slows down... he'll run you over or throw you(the OT) into the QB

BrownsTown
07-13-2007, 01:47 PM
The only player who has ever been able to stop a healthy Dwight Freeney consistently is Orlando Pace. Enough said.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:50 PM
I've seen him play plenty. Find me one defensive line coach who endorses spinning. Find me one person who thinks that Freeney isn't one-dimensional. He rushes the passer very well, but that's about it. KGB did the same a few years ago, and look at him now.

I asked if you'd ever seen him play his gap, not your opinion about Freeney's style of play, or to whom you think he compares. Would you like to answer the question now?

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 01:50 PM
The only player who has ever been able to stop a healthy Dwight Freeney consistently is Orlando Pace. Enough said.

were not talking about this year or past years though brown... were meanign in 3 year he prolly wont be worth this... do you recall how fast KGB declined... it was epic!

scottyboy
07-13-2007, 01:51 PM
this is sweet, my aunt is now the travel agent of the highest paid defender in NFL history!!!

Moses
07-13-2007, 01:52 PM
I asked if you'd ever seen him play his gap, not your opinion about Freeney's style of play, or to whom you think he compares. Would you like to answer the question now?

He never plays his gap. He goes after the QB every play. Hence his low tackle numbers...

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:52 PM
The only player who has ever been able to stop a healthy Dwight Freeney consistently is Orlando Pace. Enough said.

For a half. After the false start in the 3rd quarter, Pace was toast. Really, the OT who has stopped Freeney the best since Roaf retired is Levi Jones.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:53 PM
He never plays his gap. He goes after the QB every play. Hence his low tackle numbers...

Again, you avoid the question instead of answering it. You're blaming him for doing what he's asked to do in the scheme. Now, would you please ANSWER the question?

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 01:54 PM
were not talking about this year or past years though brown... were meanign in 3 year he prolly wont be worth this... do you recall how fast KGB declined... it was epic!

Yes, because 6'1" 268 and 6'4" 247 players are built so similarly...

Moses
07-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Again, you avoid the question instead of answering it. You're blaming him for doing what he's asked to do in the scheme. Now, would you please ANSWER the question?

I haven't seen him ever play his gap and make a solid run tackle, no. At least not off the top of my head. How would I remember such an insignificant play out of all the plays I've seen? This is all irrelevant anyway. He's one-dimensional, a liability against the run, and now extremely overpaid.

remix 6
07-13-2007, 02:00 PM
Have you ever actually watched him play his gap, or are you judging him based on highlights in which he's normally asked to take the outside route, abandon his gap, and try to sack the QB?

i've seen him try to be the tazmanian devil plenty of times and get shut down

he doesnt play run either.

draftguru151
07-13-2007, 02:01 PM
When healthy he is still the most dominant pass rusher in the NFL. Good job by the Colts, definitely a necessary move.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 02:01 PM
I haven't seen him ever play his gap and make a solid run tackle, no. At least not off the top of my head. How would I remember such an insignificant play out of all the plays I've seen? This is all irrelevant anyway. He's one-dimensional, a liability against the run, and now extremely overpaid.

Well if you've never seen him play his gap, how can you say he's a one-dimensional player? As I've told you many times, when he's asked to play his gap, he does well at it, either maintaining contain on his gap and forcing the RB to another, or making a play on the ballcarrier. You can't blame a player for doing what he's asked to do within a scheme, and most times, Freeney is asked to abandon his gap and go after the QB from the edge, which is why the draw play to his gap works well most of the time. I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but in this case, it's not a very knowledgeable one.

neko4
07-13-2007, 02:05 PM
A designated pass rusher who only got 6 sacks (5.5 to be exact) doesnt deserve all that money

remix 6
07-13-2007, 02:06 PM
A designated pass rusher who only got 6 sacks (5.5 to be exact) doesnt deserve all that money

especially when 3 of those came in 1 game where both their Tackles were injured

tylerb929
07-13-2007, 02:08 PM
The contract is too big and too long, I agree. But to say he's not good is just idiotic. First of all, he played most of the year through injury. Second, he CONSTANTLY takes on double and tripple teams. If a team puts just a tackle on him (and its not Pace) the QB is going to get sacked 2 or 3 times and probably fumble 1 of them. Opposing teams have to use TEs on his side and FBs all the time, a defensive player who demands 2 to 3 blockers on every passing play is worth some bank, but again probably too high a price for too long of a period, he should have been tagged repeatedly, atleast there wouldn't have been risk involved then.

remix 6
07-13-2007, 02:10 PM
oh and half the colts message board said 10 mill per year is too much for Dwight(they like him and all, blah blah blah but not for that much). 12 mill per year..thats way too much

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 02:12 PM
A designated pass rusher who only got 6 sacks (5.5 to be exact) doesnt deserve all that money

When the QB has a pocket to step into on most every play thanks to mediocre at best DT play, a DE who rushes mainly from the edge isn't going to get many sacks. He still had one of the highest totals of pressures in the league.

CC.SD
07-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Merriman's going to be the highest paid player in the league one day.

Shiver
07-13-2007, 02:16 PM
I don't like this. I cannot imagine Dwight Freeney to continue being productive in the NFL for too much longer. He game is predicated on speed, when he gets towards his thirties he won't have it. He will be dominated if he cannot blow past his opponents.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Yes, because 6'1" 268 and 6'4" 247 players are built so similarly...

okay im not trying to take away from freeney... he is a great player... but im saying is pass rushers usually drop off... and once freeneys speed and jump start to slow down wiht his age... he will slow down and not be nearly as affective.. compared to a guy that is maybe 6'5 280 who will always be able to play the run.. he is smaller and a pass rush specialist. they have shorter life spans in the L compared to guys built like strahan or kampman

leroyisgod
07-13-2007, 02:29 PM
way too much money for Freeney

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 02:36 PM
okay im not trying to take away from freeney... he is a great player... but im saying is pass rushers usually drop off... and once freeneys speed and jump start to slow down wiht his age... he will slow down and not be nearly as affective.. compared to a guy that is maybe 6'5 280 who will always be able to play the run.. he is smaller and a pass rush specialist. they have shorter life spans in the L compared to guys built like strahan or kampman

Freeney: 6'1" 268
Strahan: 6'5" 255
Kampman: 6'4" 270

Good point you have there though. :rolleyes:

Moses
07-13-2007, 02:38 PM
Freeney: 6'1" 268
Strahan: 6'5" 255
Kampman: 6'4" 270

Good point you have there though. :rolleyes:

Listed heights are weights are rarely even close to accurate. Aside from that, they're not important really in this debate. Freeney is a pure-speed player with one or two moves. Strahan is one of the most versatile DEs in the league with a plethora of pass rush moves and he's good against the run. Kampman is more power-based but his speed is decent for his size and he has good technique and plays the run EXTREMELY well. Freeney is a one-trick pony.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Listed heights are weights are rarely even close to accurate. Aside from that, they're not important really in this debate. Freeney is a pure-speed player with one or two moves. Strahan is one of the most versatile DEs in the league with a plethora of pass rush moves and he's good against the run. Kampman is more power-based but his speed is decent for his size and he has good technique and plays the run EXTREMELY well. Freeney is a one-trick pony.

I'll trust the NFL to accurately list player heights and weights much more quickly than I'll trust your opinion on Freeney. His argument was Freeney's build will impede him later on in his career, which, given his height and weight in comparison to the heights and weights of most DEs in the NFL, isn't true at all.

Philliez01
07-13-2007, 02:49 PM
As a Colts fan, the impact Dwight Freeney provides to the rest of the DL is simply extravagant. Robert Mathis is a nice "Robin" to Freeney's "Batman" but if you watched the Denver game you would've seen the coverage Freeney got (double, once I saw a near-triple) and he frees up Mathis and occasionally Josh Thomas.

To be fair, how many times did teams run on the Colts? If I recall, most RBs tended to go to the weakside with Brock-Mathis and Cato June's direction. Watch the Jacksonville game, his tackle numbers were low just because team's ran to June it seemed.

Is he the greatest player? NO. But given how he had an arch injury (as well as a buttock one early on) he did OK.

I can DEFINITELY see Moses view on this. Freeney isn't a Kampman or a Strahan (or even an Aaron Smith--different D though) but he still makes a highly positive impact on the Colts.

I want to see Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders retained more than Freeney, IMO. But seeing Freeney in Colts Blue long - term makes me happy. Now let's hope Quinn Pitcock can eventually succeed Raheem Brock at UT.

Moses
07-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Don't get me wrong. Freeney is a great player. I just don't see how this move is going to help the Colts in the longterm. Of course, I bet it's backloaded and he'll likely get cut if he begins to KGB it.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Freeney: 6'1" 268
Strahan: 6'5" 255
Kampman: 6'4" 270

Good point you have there though. :rolleyes:

k the hieghts are not what im talking about!.... they play the run better... so they last longer... so you could say because freeney is only that big his productive career may be shorter...

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 02:57 PM
30 million dollars for him!??!!!?!!! Wow they grossly overpaid.....

princefielder28
07-13-2007, 02:58 PM
Regardless of the money or what other people think it was a necessary move by the Colts if they want to have a chance at a title while Peyton is the quarterback.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 02:59 PM
Regardless of the money or what other people think it was a necessary move by the Colts if they want to have a chance at a title while Peyton is the quarterback.

ya he is a good player now.. and if they want to repeat or win one in the next two years he is needed...

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Regardless of the money or what other people think it was a necessary move by the Colts if they want to have a chance at a title while Peyton is the quarterback.

Freeney does not deserve the money a QB deserves, no way no how. This contract will haunt the Colts for years to come.

Philliez01
07-13-2007, 03:03 PM
I trust Polian and Co. to have made this deal with some escape clause. Minus the atrocity that was the Corey Simon deal (which I think they learned from), Polian has done great since Manning was drafted.

It is most likely heavily prorated, now there will be the signing of Gonzo, Ugoh and Hughes.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 03:05 PM
I trust Polian and Co. to have made this deal with some escape clause. Minus the atrocity that was the Corey Simon deal (which I think they learned from), Polian has done great since Manning was drafted.

It is most likely heavily prorated, now there will be the signing of Gonzo, Ugoh and Hughes.

"Freeney will receive $37.72 million over the first three years of the contract. In doing the deal, the Colts will save $3.68 million of salary-cap room that they can use to keep other players whose contracts are expiring. The Colts had $3.4 million of cap room before reaching agreement with Freeney."

Thats from ESPN.com, like I said this contract is going to haunt them.

TheChampIsHere
07-13-2007, 03:10 PM
what are you haters talking about? Freeney is one of the most game-changing defenders in the game.

Philliez01
07-13-2007, 03:21 PM
"Freeney will receive $37.72 million over the first three years of the contract. In doing the deal, the Colts will save $3.68 million of salary-cap room that they can use to keep other players whose contracts are expiring. The Colts had $3.4 million of cap room before reaching agreement with Freeney."

Thats from ESPN.com, like I said this contract is going to haunt them.

Ah thanks for the specifics.

I am still confident in Freeney, he did have an off year last year (due to the horrible run-D amongst other injuries) but if he can revert to 2005 form, I'll definitely like this deal.

Now it's rookie time.

no love
07-13-2007, 03:39 PM
When the QB has a pocket to step into on most every play thanks to mediocre at best DT play, a DE who rushes mainly from the edge isn't going to get many sacks. He still had one of the highest totals of pressures in the league.

I thought thats what the spin move was for, the inside move. Besides, if he abandons his gap against a running QB it leaves an open lane for the qb to run through.

Freeney is not only a one dimension player, but he is a one dimensional pass rusher when compared to other elite DE's Peppers, Strahan, Smith, Taylor all have great inside moves to compliment an edge rush. Give me DE like Peppers who from time to time gets a tackle and a guard blocking him over a tackle and te or rb combo.

TitanHope
07-13-2007, 04:49 PM
Thats why pass rushers like merriman who have more than a spin...

...and more than one syringes of HGH...

Anyway, good move for both parties. You can talk about the money all you want, but the Colts need Dwight Freeney. And if Freeney hit the FA market this year, he would have likely gotten a similar contract. Plus, like someone said, the contract is probably hevily backloaded. So in four or five years when he's declining, he'll have to restructure or be cut.

neko4
07-13-2007, 04:51 PM
what are you haters talking about? Freeney is one of the most game-changing defenders in the game.

Since when has he been a game changer, he's been criticzed for not making the sacks/big plays when Indy was down

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 04:53 PM
...and more than one syringes of HGH...

Anyway, good move for both parties. You can talk about the money all you want, but the Colts need Dwight Freeney. And if Freeney hit the FA market this year, he would have likely gotten a similar contract. Plus, like someone said, the contract is probably hevily backloaded. So in four or five years when he's declining, he'll have to restructure or be cut.

freeney only had one then?

TitanHope
07-13-2007, 04:53 PM
Freeney seems more of a pilates kinda guy.

Shwas referring to Merriman with the HGH comment.

JagHombre22
07-13-2007, 04:58 PM
dwight freeney has gotten a majority of his sacks on turf (at home), he's disappeared in the road games...and RB's don't shy away from his side, they know that he over pursues a majority of the time...just another straw that will eventually break the camel's back...

the colts, in a few years, will be one of the worst cap disasters in recent years...

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 05:02 PM
Freeney seems more of a pilates kinda guy.

Shwas referring to Merriman with the HGH comment.

i know i was just saying i guess freeney only has one if merriman has more haha... but ya if i do recall.. freeney gets critized because he only makes sacks when they are ahead and the other team is passing more

Raiderz4Life
07-13-2007, 05:12 PM
I think at this point Freeney is a bit overrated. He's been overpaid. Let's hope he shows some reason to warrant all that money because i like Dwight and would hate to see him have another sorry season.

Jvig43
07-13-2007, 05:25 PM
I agree, Ive watched a lot of colts games, and Freeney is really overratted. Im not saying hes bad, But a lot of analysts try to make him sound like hes the best defensive end in the nfl as of right now (ahem, espn, cough). its a good signing for the colts, however, he is getting way too much if you ask me.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 06:29 PM
dwight freeney has gotten a majority of his sacks on turf (at home), he's disappeared in the road games...and RB's don't shy away from his side, they know that he over pursues a majority of the time...just another straw that will eventually break the camel's back...

the colts, in a few years, will be one of the worst cap disasters in recent years...

That's one strong camel, since I've been hearing this "window of oppurtunity is closing" and "cap hell is coming" crap since the first division title. Considering he helped to invent the cap, I'd think Bill Polian would know a thing or two about it, like how to work with it.

49ersfan_87
07-13-2007, 06:31 PM
I think i posted an article a while back from rotoworld about how freeney wanted a 30 million signing bonus. I never thought he would actually get it though. But in today's FA, you pretty much have to overpay.

HoopsDemon12
07-13-2007, 06:34 PM
I think i posted an article a while back from rotoworld about how freeney wanted a 30 million signing bonus. I never thought he would actually get it though. But in today's FA, you pretty much have to overpay.

and 49wers fans know of that all to well.... you can have we dont want him anymroe haha

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 06:48 PM
I think at this point Freeney is a bit overrated. He's been overpaid. Let's hope he shows some reason to warrant all that money because i like Dwight and would hate to see him have another sorry season.

Sorry season? Considering the help he had defensively (practically none until the postseason), I'd say he had a pretty solid season. The DT play was atrocious at times, the LB play was atrocious at times, and the secondary play was average, but terrible against the run. The DEs were the only consistently good players on the defense, and it showed.

BamaFalcon59
07-13-2007, 06:51 PM
I'd say he gets double digit sacks for the next 3-4 years. But I doubt he would have excepted a deal in that range, considering he would hit the market in his early 30s. But for these next few years he will wrack up sacks. Too much, but what free agent isn't now adays? A good guard (Derrick Dockery) is now getting upwards near 50 million!

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 06:54 PM
I think i posted an article a while back from rotoworld about how freeney wanted a 30 million signing bonus. I never thought he would actually get it though. But in today's FA, you pretty much have to overpay.

Well, it's all about how much of the salary cap the player is taking up. This year, considering the deal saved the Colts $3.68 million on the cap this year, that means Freeney will be making $5.75 million this season against the cap, or 5.38% of the Colts' cap room, assuming no adjustments from the league-wide $107 million cap. He's definitely worth that to the Colts.

Geo
07-13-2007, 06:54 PM
That's a lot of money (:eek:), more than I would have paid personally, though I can't say I completely shocked. Salaries are continuing to rise in tandem with the cap, and the market was going to get here soon enough anyways with other DEs like Julius Peppers and Terrell Suggs. Heck, obscene money was paid to Mario Williams without having played a single snap, because of want for a franchise, playmaking DE.

Polian and Irsay signed off on the extension, they obviously think things will work. That said, Tarik Glenn leaving in FA was pretty much given but now Bob Sanders and Dallas Clark likely will as well, unless some things happen - e.g. Manning and Harrison sign new contracts - within a year's time.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 07:15 PM
That said, Tarik Glenn leaving in FA was pretty much given but now Bob Sanders and Dallas Clark likely will as well, unless some things happen - e.g. Manning and Harrison sign new contracts - within a year's time.

Uh...why? The cap will increase, and Glenn's salary coming off the books will more than cover the increase in Freeney's contract. I think one of two is a goner (my choice in that unenviable situation would be Clark), but not both.

Geo
07-13-2007, 07:18 PM
We'll see, I guess. Let's see how Sanders fares playing a full season first.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 07:21 PM
We'll see, I guess. Let's see how Sanders fares playing a full season first.

As I recall he did pretty well at that in 2005.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 07:52 PM
Well, it's all about how much of the salary cap the player is taking up. This year, considering the deal saved the Colts $3.68 million on the cap this year, that means Freeney will be making $5.75 million this season against the cap, or 5.38% of the Colts' cap room, assuming no adjustments from the league-wide $107 million cap. He's definitely worth that to the Colts.

Your looking at the small scale, not long term. You gave him 30 million dollars in a signing bonus and his contract is averaging 12+ million dollars in the first 3 years. That will hurt more then his production will help.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Your looking at the small scale, not long term. You gave him 30 million dollars in a signing bonus and his contract is averaging 12+ million dollars in the first 3 years. That will hurt more then his production will help.

No, I know where the money to cover his contract is coming from. That's why Tony Ugoh was drafted. The team decided that a young playmaking DE was more important to keep than an aging LT.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 08:21 PM
No, I know where the money to cover his contract is coming from. That's why Tony Ugoh was drafted. The team decided that a young playmaking DE was more important to keep than an aging LT.

So in other words, keeping Freeney who is coming off a down year is more important then protecting Manning's blind side. Wow thats risky......

draftguru151
07-13-2007, 08:50 PM
So in other words, keeping Freeney who is coming off a down year is more important then protecting Manning's blind side. Wow thats risky......

Considering Glenn is 4 years older than Freeney, and while Glenn is a fantastic player, it isn't in the same tier of OTs than Freeney is for DEs.

I really don't get why people are saying this is bad. Freeney is a premiere player and he got a premiere contract. He is in his prime, relatively young, and ridiculously important to the franchise. To say that was too much money is ridiculous because the market has changed. There are above average offensive guards making 7+ million a year, Joey Porter got $20 mil guaranteed. Freeney is a top flight player at a premier position, him getting that money or that length of contract is not absurd at all.

And even if you think all of that is ridiculous, there aren't many, if any, front offices than the Colts, they won a super bowl with something like 2 players from FA starting, at least give them some room for error, considering they haven't made many in the past.

simms2clayton
07-13-2007, 09:11 PM
How is Freeney a premeier player...he doesn't play the run very well and his pass rushing skills seem to have diminished from 06 to 07.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 09:13 PM
So in other words, keeping Freeney who is coming off a down year is more important then protecting Manning's blind side. Wow thats risky......

They're replacing Tarik Glenn, not simply letting him walk without a plan.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 09:14 PM
How is Freeney a premeier player...he doesn't play the run very well and his pass rushing skills seem to have diminished from 06 to 07.

You've never heard of pressures, right?

Flyboy
07-13-2007, 09:16 PM
Blah. This screws up the Will Smith negotiations.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 09:19 PM
They're replacing Tarik Glenn, not simply letting him walk without a plan.

With an unproven rookie, who will then be an unproven 2nd year player. Not much of a plan.

Geo
07-13-2007, 09:21 PM
Peter King actually made a good point on NFLN: using the franchise tag on Freeney for 07 (11 mil) and 08 (14 mil) would have paid him, in guaranteed money, a sum of 25 million.

cardsalltheway
07-13-2007, 09:24 PM
With an unproven rookie, who will then be an unproven 2nd year player. Not much of a plan.

Every rookie is unproven. They could have gotten Joe Thomas and you could apply the exact same statement to him. Howard Mudd is one of the Best OL coaches in the NFL today and Tony Ugoh was considered by some analysts to be a first round OT prospect. Throw in an already good O-Line, one of the best QB's in the game when it comes to avoiding pressure and a running back who can keep defenses honest and then some, and you've got quite a bit backing the potential success of Ugoh.

Smooth Criminal
07-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Makes me wonder how they can afford all of these contracts. With Sanders coming up as someone that almost has to get done they already have big money on Manning, Wayne, Harrison, and now Freeney. I can't imagine they will have alot of cap space in just a few years but I guess they know what they're doing.

Philliez01
07-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Plus I do believe that Tony Ugoh may be starting at G this year in favor of Ryan Lilja.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 09:30 PM
With an unproven rookie, who will then be an unproven 2nd year player. Not much of a plan.

Polian graded him as a first round talent, and apparently thinks enough of him that he sees him as the heir apparent for Tarik Glenn. That's good enough for me for now.

Komp
07-13-2007, 09:30 PM
If you can't pressure the QB in the Cover 2 from the DL you are in big trouble. While I think the size of the contract may hurt them when in conjunction with some of the other big contracts they have signed lately, they needed to keep that pass rushing element. I don't like Freeney all that much, but I agree with the Colts logic in re-signing him.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 09:33 PM
Polian graded him as a first round talent, and apparently thinks enough of him that he sees him as the heir apparent for Tarik Glenn. That's good enough for me for now.

My problem with Ugoh in that scheme is he's from a run dominated offensive system and the Colts are the exact opposite.

Dam8610
07-13-2007, 09:35 PM
Makes me wonder how they can afford all of these contracts. With Sanders coming up as someone that almost has to get done they already have big money on Manning, Wayne, Harrison, and now Freeney. I can't imagine they will have alot of cap space in just a few years but I guess they know what they're doing.

Teams that sustain greatness turn over their roster very quickly while maintaining a core of top tier players, and paying them most of the money.

draftguru151
07-13-2007, 10:10 PM
With an unproven rookie, who will then be an unproven 2nd year player. Not much of a plan.

Would you prefer them to let Freeney go and have Josh Thomas starting opposed to a 2nd round pick with loads of potential? Them resigning Freeney and letting Glenn walk next year is a no brainer.

BigDawg819
07-13-2007, 10:15 PM
Would you prefer them to let Freeney go and have Josh Thomas starting opposed to a 2nd round pick with loads of potential? Them resigning Freeney and letting Glenn walk next year is a no brainer.

Truthfully I hate the Colts and wish they would dissolve, bottomline they overpaid to keep Freeney.

Geo
07-13-2007, 10:39 PM
Would you prefer them to let Freeney go and have Josh Thomas starting opposed to a 2nd round pick with loads of potential? Them resigning Freeney and letting Glenn walk next year is a no brainer.
I do think the Colts could have traded a franchise-tagged Freeney to Washington for draft picks, with at least one 1st round pick involved. Snyder couldn't have helped himself.

Nitschke-Hawk
07-13-2007, 11:09 PM
The only way this is worth it is if he gets 16 sacks and causes like 4 turnovers each year of the contract. And I'm not going to elaborate to Colts fans, cause they've read the reasons from many other people already.

OzTitan
07-13-2007, 11:38 PM
Highest paid defender............until Julius Peppers gets his new deal. What is his going to be, $110M, $40M guarantees? He deserves that if Freeney deserves this.

I can't understand how the Colts manage to keep dealing out "highest paid" deals. Two top 3 paid WR's I think, Manning and now Freeney. They had to let talent go to fit under the cap this offseason, what's going to happen for the next? Salary cap hell awaits. Or maybe this new CBA ear thing saved them in the nick of time. If there is any good left in the NFL's salary cap system, the Colts should be feeling it hard very soon, otherwise we may as well just not have it.

MaxV
07-14-2007, 07:05 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2935558

A very good article by John Clayton on the Freeney deal.

7-11
07-15-2007, 08:21 PM
bar the fellow colts and DG151 i am seeing a hell of a lot of ignorance regarding freeney and his impact on a game of football

neko4
07-15-2007, 08:32 PM
bar the fellow colts and DG151 i am seeing a hell of a lot of ignorance regarding freeney and his impact on a game of football
What 5.5 sacks?
The fact is he isnt as good as Peppers, Kampman, Taylor, and a few other I'm sure

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 08:43 PM
My problem with Ugoh in that scheme is he's from a run dominated offensive system and the Colts are the exact opposite.

Tarik Glenn isn't exactly the best of pass protectors. He gets flagged for false starts often trying to get a jump against the league's better pass rushers. I'm not saying he's not a good one, but IMO he's a better run blocker.

bar the fellow colts and DG151 i am seeing a hell of a lot of ignorance regarding freeney and his impact on a game of football

You'll have that when you have a player with a (well deserved) reputation as a pass rusher. He does other things well, and he basically takes up two players on the opposing offense, but for some reason, no one recognizes that.

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 08:44 PM
What 5.5 sacks?

Do you not understand how atrocious DT play can lead to a pocket for the QB to step into and avoid the rush?

7-11
07-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Id love to hear a list of defenders that you lot think have a bigger impact for their respective teams (when healthy which completely cuts out last year for freeney even though he still was huge for the colts even without the sack numbers or any defensive tackle pocket collapsing help whatsoever)

Moses
07-15-2007, 09:16 PM
Id love to hear a list of defenders that you lot think have a bigger impact for their respective teams (when healthy which completely cuts out last year for freeney even though he still was huge for the colts even without the sack numbers or any defensive tackle pocket collapsing help whatsoever)

Are you kidding? Freeney is a threat only on passing situations. To state that he changes games more than guys who are a factor on every down is downright stupid.

7-11
07-15-2007, 10:24 PM
Are you kidding? Freeney is a threat only on passing situations. To state that he changes games more than guys who are a factor on every down is downright stupid.

name the players then, if he gets doubled on every passing down (which is almost all the time, sometimes even tripled) then that means hes freeing up a man on 50% (roughly) of total plays, which i consider a major impact on a whole

7-11
07-15-2007, 10:27 PM
and anyway id rather a guy that negatively changes the way qb's think and play over a guy whos best asset is that they play the run and pass equally well

JT Jag
07-15-2007, 10:51 PM
and anyway id rather a guy that negatively changes the way qb's think and play over a guy whos best asset is that they play the run and pass equally wellJulius Peppers is better then Freeney.

He's given JUST as much attention as Freeney is. The difference is in their production.

In 4 less games, he's posted nearly identical sack stats as Freeney. However, he's knocked down 20 more passes (thus killing 20 more plays), and had 80 more total tackles then Freeney did, showing his run defense skill.

The only skill that Freeney has a distinct edge over Freeney in is forcing fumbles--- a testiment to his ability to use his low center of gravity to his advantage in stripping the ball.

7-11
07-16-2007, 12:36 AM
Julius Peppers is better then Freeney.

He's given JUST as much attention as Freeney is. The difference is in their production.

In 4 less games, he's posted nearly identical sack stats as Freeney. However, he's knocked down 20 more passes (thus killing 20 more plays), and had 80 more total tackles then Freeney did, showing his run defense skill.

The only skill that Freeney has a distinct edge over Freeney in is forcing fumbles--- a testiment to his ability to use his low center of gravity to his advantage in stripping the ball.

i think its fairly accpeted that julius peppers is a better player, nobody here is arguing that. the only reason freeney is getting more (and im assuming thats why you brought this comparison up) is because he just signed, if peppers was to sign today hed be getting more then this contract.

and dont get caught up with stats in the comparison because peppers' superior supporting cast is going to make it much easier for him thus inflating his stats, all you have to do is watch the film to realise both are excellent players

Shiver
07-16-2007, 12:40 PM
I would be shocked if anyone here would take Freeney over Peppers.

Geo
07-16-2007, 10:05 PM
You also think the Houston Texans will make the playoffs this year and that they were right to pass on Reggie Bush, Shiver. :p

I'll take Freeney over Peppers. Peppers was an absolute stud in 2004, but it's 2007 and he disappears from games more than Freeney now. I'll give credit to Peppers, he does a better job compiling 3-sack games against piss-poor competition (has to be nice playing Tampa twice a year), but I want a DE who can continually pressure the pocket and actually get an elite quarterback like Tom Brady and Carson Palmer off their spot.

Only thing is, I would: (1) have Freeney play the run more instead of the continual 9-tech BS that we had to endure - with Cato June manning WLB behind him no less - until the 06 playoffs (better late than never, I guess); and (2) bring in more talent at DT to make the interior stout instead of a sieve, thereby actually *gasp* provide Freeney with situations to pass-rush, much like Carolina has done continually for Peppers through the Draft and Free Agency.

Also, Freeney interests me as a 3-4 OLB, as a fan of the 3-4 defense myself. Not that the transition will come before Coach Dungy retires.

HoopsDemon12
07-16-2007, 10:17 PM
ill take peppers over freeney everyday of the week and im thinking its 07....

Shiver
07-16-2007, 10:58 PM
You also think the Houston Texans will make the playoffs this year and that they were right to pass on Reggie Bush, Shiver. :p

I'm not the only one, shockingly. Me and BBD are in one accord.

Also, Freeney interests me as a 3-4 OLB, as a fan of the 3-4 defense myself. Not that the transition will come before Coach Dungy retires.

I pondered that possibility last year. I would have to see how he would handle coverage, but I think he could be very successful in that role personally.

HoopsDemon12
07-16-2007, 11:05 PM
I'm not the only one, shockingly. Me and BBD are in one accord.



I pondered that possibility last year. I would have to see how he would handle coverage, but I think he could be very successful in that role personally.

ya i think he would be a great rusher... i think he will do the same thing jason taylor did as he got older... he lost some of his qucknoess off the ball.. so they stood him up... and he has been succesfull.. i think the colts may do that to freeney aswell

ShutDwn
07-16-2007, 11:21 PM
You also think the Houston Texans will make the playoffs this year and that they were right to pass on Reggie Bush, Shiver. :p

I'll take Freeney over Peppers. Peppers was an absolute stud in 2004, but it's 2007 and he disappears from games more than Freeney now. I'll give credit to Peppers, he does a better job compiling 3-sack games against piss-poor competition (has to be nice playing Tampa twice a year), but I want a DE who can continually pressure the pocket and actually get an elite quarterback like Tom Brady and Carson Palmer off their spot.

Only thing is, I would: (1) have Freeney play the run more instead of the continual 9-tech BS that we had to endure - with Cato June manning WLB behind him no less - until the 06 playoffs (better late than never, I guess); and (2) bring in more talent at DT to make the interior stout instead of a sieve, thereby actually *gasp* provide Freeney with situations to pass-rush, much like Carolina has done continually for Peppers through the Draft and Free Agency.

Also, Freeney interests me as a 3-4 OLB, as a fan of the 3-4 defense myself. Not that the transition will come before Coach Dungy retires.

It must be nice playing Houston every year too? Does Freeney not compile sacks against piss poor competition as well? Conveniently, Freeny's best game (3 sacks, 3 FF) last year came against the Bengals without their starting LT Levi Jones. Freeney was a stud in 04 too, but this is 07, and he only had 5.5 sacks last year.

As for the pass rush situations, Peppers is a strong side DE and he has to pass rush with more caution than Freeney because it is his job to stop the run most times. Freeney has more freedom to go straight to the QB. Not to mention Freeney is almost always going to be coming from the QB's blind side.

draftguru151
07-16-2007, 11:24 PM
It must be nice playing Houston every year too? Does Freeney not compile sacks against piss poor competition as well? Conveniently, Freeny's best game (3 sacks, 3 FF) last year came against the Bengals without their starting LT Levi Jones. Freeney was a stud in 04 too, but this is 07, and he only had 5.5 sacks last year.

As for the pass rush situations, Peppers is a strong side DE and he has to pass rush with more caution than Freeney because it is his job to stop the run most times. Freeney has more freedom to go straight to the QB. Not to mention Freeney is almost always going to be coming from the QB's blind side.

And it won't that mean Freeney will be going against the better pass blockers opposed to Peppers who goes against the inferior ones?

Dam8610
07-17-2007, 03:42 AM
I would: (1) have Freeney play the run more instead of the continual 9-tech BS that we had to endure - with Cato June manning WLB behind him no less - until the 06 playoffs (better late than never, I guess)

Actually, it was usually worse than that most of the time, as Gardner was usually overpursuing...err..."manning" SLB behind him.