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Denver Bronco99
07-14-2007, 12:11 AM
In this week's installment of the NFL's most underrated and overrated players, I will be reviewing pass-rushers. The method I use to grade pass-rushers is based on the different sack types. The major sack types are coverage, garbage, individual, run and scheme. (The full list of sack types can be found in the complete glossary.)



Quote:
July 10 Glossary
Coverage sack: A sack that occurs in the pocket, three seconds or more after the snap.
Garbage sack: When one defensive player gets a sack due to the pass rushing efforts of another defender. One typical example of this is when a defensive end crashes the pocket from the outside and forces the quarterback to step up into a well-blocked defensive tackle. The tackle was only able to get the sack because of the defensive end's pass rush, so he is credited with a garbage sack.

Individual effort sack: This is a sack when a defender beats an offensive blocker in a one-on-one blocking situation.

Run sack: This type of sack is credited when a quarterback starts to run after dropping back to pass the ball. The quarterback must be out of the pocket and pull the ball down, tuck it away and be running towards the line of scrimmage for a play to be noted as a run sack.

Scheme sack: Sacks that come off stunts or blitzes are tracked in this category.

Complete Glossary

Individual effort sacks are considered the most valuable because they show the pass-rusher can beat one-on-one blocking. Scheme sacks are also valuable because they show the rusher can be utilized in a number of ways.

Coverage, garbage and run sacks do have value, but I don't consider them great indicators of pure pass-rushing ability. Any player tallying a lot of these sacks may not be as good a pass-rusher as his sack total would indicate.

Sacks can also be split between categories. If a defensive ends stunts to the inside and is picked up by the guard, then beats the guard with a bull rush, the sack is listed as being half a scheme sack (for the stunt) and half an individual effort sack (for beating the guard one-on-one).

As has been the case for each of the overrated/underrated articles, players are rated based on their 2006 metrics. Pro Bowl berths are given significant weight in determining the perception of a player.



Overrated pass-rushers
Will Smith
Smith made the Pro Bowl last year in large part due to his 10.5 sacks, but those included three coverage sacks and 1.5 garbage sacks. Smith is still a very good player and probably deserved the Pro Bowl berth based on his overall game, but he is not as good a pass-rusher as his sack total would indicate.

Jared Allen
Allen's sack total (7.5) in 2006 was the lowest of his career, but he actually did even worse than the total indicates. Allen had one run sack and was practically gifted another when his blocker blew an assignment and left Allen completely unblocked. Only three of his sacks were individual effort sacks, and one of those came when Allen was matched up against a running back.

Others:
Robert Geathers: His 10.5 sacks tied for 14th in the league, but four of these were of the coverage/garbage/blown block variety.
Bobby McCray: McCray racked up 10 sacks last year, but 3.5 of these were coverage sacks and another 1.5 were garbage sacks.


Underrated pass-rushers
Trevor Pryce
Pryce did not make the Pro Bowl despite registering 13 sacks last year. His sack total is even more impressive when you consider that 6.5 of Pryce's sacks were of the individual effort variety and only 2.5 were of the garbage/blown block variety. He is a superb pass-rusher in both one-on-one situations and when utilized on the blitz.

Mark Anderson
Anderson posted 13 sacks as a rookie last year, including eight of the individual effort variety, and also didn't make the Pro Bowl. Amazingly, Anderson's individual effort sack total would have ranked 26th in the league on its own.

Others:
Elvis Dumervil: Dumervil was a situational pass-rusher for the Broncos last year and put up 8.5 sacks, 7.5 of which were individual effort sacks.
Kamerion Wimbley: Wimbley's 11 sacks showed he had a very good rookie season, but it was the diversity of the sack types that put him on this list. He had 6.5 individual effort sacks but also had a total of two scheme sacks. The scheme sacks were all split with other sack types, so he actually had sacks on blitzes/stunts on four separate plays. He is just as good at moving around the defense to get past his man as he is at simply beating his man one-on-one.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His core passing metrics can be found in the ESPN Fantasy Football Magazine, which hits newsstands on June 19. A free sample of his latest release ("Scientific Football 2007") is available at his Web site.

HawkeyeFan
07-14-2007, 12:12 AM
Underrated:
Leonard Little

Don Vito
07-14-2007, 12:16 AM
Overrated - Joey Porter

Underrated - Roosevely Colvin

TitanHope
07-14-2007, 01:16 AM
I will continue the trend of saying that a player on my team is under-rated!

Under-rated: Kyle Vanden Bosch

Average OT LB
07-14-2007, 01:25 AM
I will continue the trend of saying that a player on my team is under-rated!

Under-rated: Kyle Vanden Bosch

me too - underrated shaun phillips // overrated jevon kearse

Denver Bronco99
07-14-2007, 01:27 AM
i def. agree with the list...as they break it down.

i think it would be intresting to see how Julius peppers and shawn merrimen sacks were got

OzTitan
07-14-2007, 01:41 AM
Not really sure I'd say KVB is underrated, because while I believe indepth stats show he was one of the better all round pass rushing DE's last season when you consider all things and not just sacks (which are an overrated stat in some regards, not as much as INT's though), he's still a pretty one dimensional player and you've gotta expect more sacks from a guy like that.

I reckon Derrick Burgess is vastly underrated. These past two seasons he has been one of the best sack artists in the league and yet he always seems to escape discussion from articles like these. Even if they listed him as overrated that would be something - i.e., at this point just acknowledging him seems to be a step forward.

kmartin575
07-14-2007, 02:13 AM
So Jared Allen has a down year and he is overrated? Then what do you call Dwight Freeney's 5.5 sacks?

remix 6
07-14-2007, 08:50 AM
So Jared Allen has a down year and he is overrated? Then what do you call Dwight Freeney's 5.5 sacks?

hes going by the the type of sack. if it was broken down blocking ,etc

SeanTaylorRIP
07-14-2007, 10:00 AM
Trevor Pryce was so underrated last year it wasn't even funny, the fact he wasn't a pro bowler makes the pro bowl a complete joke.

remix 6
07-14-2007, 10:18 AM
Underrated:
Leonard Little

he'll never get the right publicity anymore after that drunk driving killing.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2007, 10:37 AM
Meh...KC Joyner is a tool. Theres alot more to being a DE than just pass rushing. While Dumerville and Anderson are great situational pass rushers, they both need to work on their run stuffing abilities.

Furthermore, his "stats" don't illustrate the differences in schemes and how that effects a player's responsibilities which could effect his "stats".

It also fails to consider the amount of help said DEs have in terms of pass rush. I love Pryce and feel he is underrated, however, it has to be noted that he played on a very talented Ravens team that has plenty of other of players that demand attention. Same can be said with Anderson.

Who does Will Smith have? He IS the NO pass rush.


Basically what Im trying to say is...stats are worthless. Watch the game. The film never lies.

Caddy
07-14-2007, 10:40 AM
Meh...KC Joyner is a tool. Theres alot more to being a DE than just pass rushing. While Dumerville and Anderson are great situational pass rushers, they both need to work on their run stuffing abilities.

Furthermore, his "stats" don't illustrate the differences in schemes and how that effects a player's responsibilities which could effect his "stats".

It also fails to consider the amount of help said DEs have in terms of pass rush. I love Pryce and feel he is underrated, however, it has to be noted that he played on a very talented Ravens team that has plenty of other of players that demand attention. Same can be said with Anderson.

Who does Will Smith have? He IS the NO pass rush.


Basically what Im trying to say is...stats are worthless. Watch the game. The film never lies.

The article is just about pass rushing, not being an all round DE.

remix 6
07-14-2007, 10:46 AM
Meh...KC Joyner is a tool. Theres alot more to being a DE than just pass rushing. While Dumerville and Anderson are great situational pass rushers, they both need to work on their run stuffing abilities.

Furthermore, his "stats" don't illustrate the differences in schemes and how that effects a player's responsibilities which could effect his "stats".

It also fails to consider the amount of help said DEs have in terms of pass rush. I love Pryce and feel he is underrated, however, it has to be noted that he played on a very talented Ravens team that has plenty of other of players that demand attention. Same can be said with Anderson.

Who does Will Smith have? He IS the NO pass rush.


Basically what Im trying to say is...stats are worthless. Watch the game. The film never lies.

PASS RUSHING ONLY

and Pryce is 1 of the best talents on the Ravens.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2007, 10:50 AM
The article is just about pass rushing, not being an all round DE.

I understand that, but you know people will misinterpret it as "who's the better de" regardless.

My main problem with his stats is regardless of how precise he tries to make it, it will never tell the whole story. Scheme is a big part of the game, and it throws scheme out the window. Mark Andersen's responsibilities are very different to a guy like Will Smith. Andersen just has to shoot up the field and cause disruption. Smith needs to hold his gap against the run while maintaining a decent pass rush, coupled with facing double teams on every play.

Im just not a fan of metrics at all. You can't make statistical sense out of football. This isn't baseball. Football is too interdependent of a sport for anyone to make statistical sense out of it.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2007, 10:54 AM
PASS RUSHING ONLY

and Pryce is 1 of the best talents on the Ravens.

My point is, it doesn't make sense to compare a situational pass rusher (like Dumerville) or a guy who never gets doubled (like Pryce) to a guy like Will Smith.

These stats also don't take into consideration the fatigue factor involved. Will Smith plays the whole game while guys like Andersen and Dumerville come in with fresh legs and takes advantage of going against fatigued players. Its not fair to compare.

Basically, its an unfair comparison. Put Will Smith on the Ravens, or Bears, and I guarantee you his "stats" would go up. His sack totals would definately be higher. Its no coincidence that Pryce's #s shot up after he left Denver. He has alot more help in Baltimore compared to Denver. Metrics dont factor that in.

Splat
07-14-2007, 10:59 AM
Jared Allen

Tackles - 77

Sacks - 7.5

Int - 1

Forced Fumbles - 3

Fumbles Recovered - 6

Pass Def - 10

His sacks went down but he had is best all around year ever and that was with out any help at DT.

TACKLE
07-14-2007, 11:01 AM
Overrated = Dwight Freeney
Underrated = Aaron Schobel

remix 6
07-14-2007, 11:24 AM
My point is, it doesn't make sense to compare a situational pass rusher (like Dumerville) or a guy who never gets doubled (like Pryce) to a guy like Will Smith.

These stats also don't take into consideration the fatigue factor involved. Will Smith plays the whole game while guys like Andersen and Dumerville come in with fresh legs and takes advantage of going against fatigued players. Its not fair to compare.

Basically, its an unfair comparison. Put Will Smith on the Ravens, or Bears, and I guarantee you his "stats" would go up. His sack totals would definately be higher. Its no coincidence that Pryce's #s shot up after he left Denver. He has alot more help in Baltimore compared to Denver. Metrics dont factor that in.

im pretty sure he looked at the games and judged..so if it was double verse 1on1..he would say it

Nitschke-Hawk
07-14-2007, 12:16 PM
Umm, if Mark Anderson has 5 of his 13 sacks as non individual effort sacks he should be in the overrated section. That's over 25 percent of his production not being a direct result of his own effort.

Denver Bronco99
07-14-2007, 01:14 PM
My point is, it doesn't make sense to compare a situational pass rusher (like Dumerville) or a guy who never gets doubled (like Pryce) to a guy like Will Smith.

These stats also don't take into consideration the fatigue factor involved. Will Smith plays the whole game while guys like Andersen and Dumerville come in with fresh legs and takes advantage of going against fatigued players. Its not fair to compare.

Basically, its an unfair comparison. Put Will Smith on the Ravens, or Bears, and I guarantee you his "stats" would go up. His sack totals would definately be higher. Its no coincidence that Pryce's #s shot up after he left Denver. He has alot more help in Baltimore compared to Denver. Metrics dont factor that in.


we he was hurt in devner the last couple years...before that he was an allpro in denver so to me he just got back to being healthy

Bobo
07-14-2007, 01:36 PM
Not really sure I'd say KVB is underrated, because while I believe indepth stats show he was one of the better all round pass rushing DE's last season when you consider all things and not just sacks (which are an overrated stat in some regards, not as much as INT's though), he's still a pretty one dimensional player and you've gotta expect more sacks from a guy like that.


KVB is one dimensional? He was top 5 in tackles for 4-3 DE's. Now I can guess where this conversation may be headed...."he takes himself out of plays a lot with wide pass rushes". That's true....and it is with many of the top pass rushers. Jevon did it all the time.

If anything, I think that's mostly on the DC. KVB doesn't do it all the time, I imagine it's all about what he's told to run that play. Surely it's not all ad libbing.

I looked up some QB pressure #'s, and KVB was up near the top last year just to get back to pass rushing talk again.

KVB had so little help from the other side of the line last year. We went through a ton of scrub, reject DE's.

Boston
07-14-2007, 01:48 PM
I don't like the mention of situational pass-rushers. It's so much easier to rush the QB when it's third and 5+ and you don't have to focus on the run at all. I don't think Anderson's underrated, merely a situational pass rusher who knows the pass is coming, and can be hell-bent on going after the QB.

Shiver
07-14-2007, 04:09 PM
BBD is one of the few people who hates metrics for football like I do.

cardsalltheway
07-14-2007, 04:31 PM
Overrated = Dwight Freeney
Underrated = Aaron Schobel

Dwight Freeney is not overrated as a passrusher. Heck I don't even think he's overrated as a player anymore since he's getting Michael Vick treatment (everyone calling him overrated).

The Unseen
07-14-2007, 04:47 PM
BBD is one of the few people who hates metrics for football like I do.

At first read, you confused me. I thought you meant that few people hate metrics. Lots of people hate metrics. Then I re-read, lol.

I don't mind metrics as long as they have their place: a different compilation of statistics. If you give them too much credit, you miss the point alot. It's the same thing with the traditional stats, too.

BigDawg819
07-14-2007, 06:38 PM
Trevor Pryce was so underrated last year it wasn't even funny, the fact he wasn't a pro bowler makes the pro bowl a complete joke.

This is by far the best post in this thread.

M.O.T.H.
07-14-2007, 07:16 PM
Why does K.C. Joyner still have a job? Also, why do people listen to him?

keylime_5
07-14-2007, 07:17 PM
Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.

BigDawg819
07-14-2007, 07:18 PM
Why does K.C. Joyner still have a job? Also, why do people listen to him?

The same could be said for a Pete Prisco or a Skip Bayliss, you hate them so much but you have to read/watch what they say. Kind of like a vicious car wreck that you have to look at.

Moses
07-14-2007, 07:22 PM
Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.

Had a lot to do with the fact that he's on a terrible team that gets little press to begin with. If he was on a contender or in a bigger market we'd be hearing more about him.

BigDawg819
07-14-2007, 07:23 PM
Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.

I knew about him, I always follow former Seminoles!

keylime_5
07-14-2007, 08:48 PM
Had a lot to do with the fact that he's on a terrible team that gets little press to begin with. If he was on a contender or in a bigger market we'd be hearing more about him.

That and the fact that he's a very quiet guy. It's a shame that you can't hardly get on the pro bowl squad if you are a young guy on a crappy team. The Browns sure sucked last year, but Sean Jones and Kam Wimbley were not the reason. Kinda stupid to not vote for somebody b/c they play for the Browns, Cards, Bills, etc.

iloxygenil
07-14-2007, 08:49 PM
Underrated - Aaron Kampman - the guy is a complete workhorse and I'd be surprised if most of his sacks weren't individual effort sacks. He helped that Green Bay defense immensely and even though he's getting some credit, I still see him as under rated.

Overrated - Dwight Freeny - I know he was getting doubled up a lot last year and blah blah blah, but 1 pass rush move isn't going to cut it in the NFL, and he's had to learn that the hard way and I'd be shocked if he ever gets back up to the numbers he's put up in the past. He's a great speed rusher, but RBs can take care of those.

sweetness34
07-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Underrated:
Leonard Little

Murderer.....

LonghornsLegend
07-15-2007, 12:50 AM
That and the fact that he's a very quiet guy. It's a shame that you can't hardly get on the pro bowl squad if you are a young guy on a crappy team. The Browns sure sucked last year, but Sean Jones and Kam Wimbley were not the reason. Kinda stupid to not vote for somebody b/c they play for the Browns, Cards, Bills, etc.

thats hardly not true...the cards had boldin, and fitz, boldin was a rookie, and i think fitz his 2nd year, they were terrible both years...dre bly made it with the lions, thats a bad excuse just because those players didnt make it...


did you see who sean jones would of had to beat out to make it?

ny10804
07-15-2007, 12:57 AM
Aaron Kampman is the be-all and end-all of pass rushers. Just kidding, but he is a beast who is under appreciated. He led all defensive linemen in sacks and tackles.

OzTitan
07-15-2007, 09:27 AM
KVB is one dimensional? He was top 5 in tackles for 4-3 DE's. Now I can guess where this conversation may be headed...."he takes himself out of plays a lot with wide pass rushes". That's true....and it is with many of the top pass rushers. Jevon did it all the time.

If anything, I think that's mostly on the DC. KVB doesn't do it all the time, I imagine it's all about what he's told to run that play. Surely it's not all ad libbing.

I looked up some QB pressure #'s, and KVB was up near the top last year just to get back to pass rushing talk again.

KVB had so little help from the other side of the line last year. We went through a ton of scrub, reject DE's.

I don't really agree that tackles disprove he is one dimensional, they are not even an official stat from what I can recall and don't say an awful lot. Tackles behind scrimmage would be a better indication.

All I'm saying is, if he is taking himself out of running plays for whatever reason and focusing on pass rushing, I would like to see more sacks for him to be "underrated", even if it is an overrated stat itself. One dimensional may have been a little harsh though - I really like him, but more pass rushing production like in 05 would be nice. If he does in 07, then we all know he'll be overlooked anyway so I guess he's an underrated player in waiting :)

bennybee38
07-15-2007, 09:36 AM
underrated. obviously the 2 white guys. kampman and schobel

Travis 24
07-15-2007, 10:34 AM
Underrated = TRENT COLE

Bobo
07-15-2007, 05:24 PM
I don't really agree that tackles disprove he is one dimensional, they are not even an official stat from what I can recall and don't say an awful lot. Tackles behind scrimmage would be a better indication.

All I'm saying is, if he is taking himself out of running plays for whatever reason and focusing on pass rushing, I would like to see more sacks for him to be "underrated", even if it is an overrated stat itself. One dimensional may have been a little harsh though - I really like him, but more pass rushing production like in 05 would be nice. If he does in 07, then we all know he'll be overlooked anyway so I guess he's an underrated player in waiting :)

Well he's not running down the field 20 yards to get all those tackles. He doesn't get bullied much when one on one against OT's. He usually handles TE's easily. He may not be as stout as Carter was at the line, but not many DE's are (or are 300 lbs). He did have 6 tfl's last year, and 7.5 the year before, both are very good #'s.

Our other DE's take many outside rushes that take them out of a running play. I have to think it's mostly Shwartz's calls to decide how the rush. Maybe that's not how it is, but it doesn't make sense that they're just out there freelancing.

If we get some help from the other side, surely KVB's #'s go back up when he doesn't get doubled as much. Maybe that happens in 08 after we draft Calias Campbell :)

BlindSite
07-15-2007, 05:43 PM
Defensive ends imo should be measured by impact plays, not necessarily, an INT or a sack, but all sorts of things they do like QB hurries and collapsing the pocket for other defensive lineman to make a play.

None of those things are shown in statistics that you see every day. I wouldn't bother with stats, especially for DEs, it doesn't show how dominant or how ignored they are.

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 05:53 PM
I wouldn't bother with stats, especially for DEs, it doesn't show how dominant or how ignored they are.

Well, they do, you just have to pay STATS Inc. a ton of money to get the right ones, or keep them yourself.

BlindSite
07-15-2007, 05:57 PM
Precisely my point, statistics used by most sports writers and analysts to make their decisions are tackles and sacks, ff occasionally. That's not what shows the real story imo.

PalmerToCJ
07-15-2007, 08:16 PM
As soon as I saw the criteria I knew Geathers would be on there.

I will say the fact that he had the 10.5 sacks didn't impress me because I knew several of them were in garbage time. With that said he has a ton of potential but last years numbers indicated that he played better than he actually did.

PACKmanN
07-15-2007, 08:17 PM
Mark Anderson sacks came most of the time when it was a passing down on 3rd down, how is that underrated when you except a pass?

Bills2083
07-15-2007, 08:51 PM
Aaron Schobel is definitley underrated. In the past 5 years, Schobel has had just 2.5 fewer sacks than Dwight Freeney. Schobel gets no publicity from anyone, even though he is one of the great pass rushers in the game

BTW, Schobel also has 52 more tackles than Freeney

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 09:04 PM
Aaron Schobel is definitley underrated. In the past 5 years, Schobel has had just 2.5 fewer sacks than Dwight Freeney. Schobel gets no publicity from anyone, even though he is one of the great pass rushers in the game

BTW, Schobel also has 52 more tackles than Freeney

I'm guessing Schobel didn't have to deal with horrible DT play and constant doubles last year.

drmoyer421
07-15-2007, 09:20 PM
I'm guessing Schobel didn't have to deal with horrible DT play and constant doubles last year.
then obviously you didnt watch a Bills game... The Bills had last year arguably the worst performance from thier DTs and Schobel was doubled most of the games, a reason why the opposite DE tandum of Denney and Kelsay had a total of 12 sacks themselves.

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 09:26 PM
The Bills had last year arguably the worst performance from thier DTs

Obviously you didn't watch the Colts.

21ST
07-15-2007, 09:34 PM
Obviously you didn't watch the Colts.

Neither one of you watched the redskins

Average OT LB
07-15-2007, 09:37 PM
then obviously you didnt watch a Bills game... The Bills had last year arguably the worst performance from thier DTs and Schobel was doubled most of the games, a reason why the opposite DE tandum of Denney and Kelsay had a total of 12 sacks themselves.

its very hard for me to compare the two since i havent seen schobel play all too often.. Id like to know what kind of sacks these two have racked up because one stat that i think sets them apart is forced fumbles. Freeney has racked up 27 FF in his 5 years whereas Schobel has 13 in his 6 years.

Also before last year freeney hadnt had less then 11 sacks for his entire career which is impressive regardless if you think sacks are overrated or not. Its hard to throw out last year as a season that doesnt count to compare Freeney's best to schobels, because although Freeney had a down year, Schobel had his best (in sacks). The way i see it, freeney is much more explosive and can get the big play at any time and is deserving of a big contract... Schobel seems be just getting started..

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 09:54 PM
then obviously you didnt watch a Bills game...

Actually I saw them live. McGee made that a much closer game than it ever should have been.

drmoyer421
07-15-2007, 10:05 PM
Dude relax..
This wasnt ever an attack against Freeney, or an attempt to compare Schobel vs. Freeney. In fact I went to SU and my brother in law played with him on the team, so I have followed his career closely. I also own the NFL package and have Wayne and Manning on my fantasy team for the past three years, so I watch a ton of Colts games. And have never said anything against what Freeney has to go through during a game.

What the Bills fan had said before you tried to make it a comparison is that Schobel is underrated. EVERYONE knows that Freeney is one of the best DEs in the league, hands down!!

But if you look through thier years, Schobel has put up comparable numbers but gets NO respect, and NO mention in the top categories for DE.

This was for an overrated/underrated pass rusher, and we as Bills fans are saying that Schobel is WAY underrated. He gets double teamed and he doesnt have that great of a Dline to help out. And he puts consistantly good numbers at DE.

SuperMcGee
07-15-2007, 10:28 PM
I'm guessing Schobel didn't have to deal with horrible DT play and constant doubles last year.

I seriously can not stop laughing at this post.

SuperMcGee
07-15-2007, 10:41 PM
Dude relax..
This wasnt ever an attack against Freeney, or an attempt to compare Schobel vs. Freeney. In fact I went to SU and my brother in law played with him on the team, so I have followed his career closely. I also own the NFL package and have Wayne and Manning on my fantasy team for the past three years, so I watch a ton of Colts games. And have never said anything against what Freeney has to go through during a game.

What the Bills fan had said before you tried to make it a comparison is that Schobel is underrated. EVERYONE knows that Freeney is one of the best DEs in the league, hands down!!

But if you look through thier years, Schobel has put up comparable numbers but gets NO respect, and NO mention in the top categories for DE.

This was for an overrated/underrated pass rusher, and we as Bills fans are saying that Schobel is WAY underrated. He gets double teamed and he doesnt have that great of a Dline to help out. And he puts consistantly good numbers at DE.

The Pro Bowl and D'Brick helped Schobel to be somewhat less underrated as a pass rusher, but he's still been one of the best all around DE and pass rushers of the past few years. The lack of attention is fine by him, though. One of the most reserved athletes I've seen. Just a hard worker and a gamer. And he can grow a sweet beard when he wants to.

Dam8610
07-15-2007, 10:51 PM
I seriously can not stop laughing at this post.

As I recall, Glenn had Schobel one-on-one all game, and I watched that matchup pretty closely. I know the Colts aren't the only team the Bills played, but that tells me the better LTs in the league could matchup with him one-on-one.

throwback54milkman
07-15-2007, 11:13 PM
maybe a little homerish: but Bryan Thomas is a very underrated pass rusher

KCJ58
07-15-2007, 11:41 PM
Underrated:
Leonard Little

he is very underrated most people dont even like him

NGSeiler
07-15-2007, 11:43 PM
he'll never get the right publicity anymore after that drunk driving killing.

Perhaps, but he was fifth in the league last season in sacks despite not really having anyone else on that line around him. The next best pass rushing defensive lineman for the Rams in 2006 was La'Roi Glover, so that says something.

Murderer.....

So that makes him an overrated or underrated pass rusher then? I'm trying to understand how this is relevant.

BigDawg819
07-16-2007, 12:32 AM
As I recall, Glenn had Schobel one-on-one all game, and I watched that matchup pretty closely. I know the Colts aren't the only team the Bills played, but that tells me the better LTs in the league could matchup with him one-on-one.

Your basing your opinion of Schobel solely on his performance against Glenn? Wow dude take the homer glasses off once and a while............

jkb528
07-18-2007, 07:31 AM
Schobel also completely ABUSED D'Brickashaw Ferguson last season, and while the guy was a rookie, he's still talented. I agree overall with the general consensus that Aaron Schobel is vastly underrated, and he deserves to be mentioned with the premier defensive ends in the league over the past 5 seasons. Not only is he great at rushing the passer, but he is also terrific at playing the run, and he's a great veteran presence to have, due to his hard working, high character personality.