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nbarnett56
07-16-2007, 12:16 PM
Who is the better player? I don't think its even close but I'm debating with someone who thinks differently.

draftguru151
07-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Mario Williams, not even close.

Michigan
07-16-2007, 12:31 PM
Mario. Not even debatable at this point (check back in 2-3 years maybe). Mario has much better physical tools, endured his rookie season, improved with each game, and still has a ton of potential to reach. Gaines hasn't even hit training camp.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
07-16-2007, 12:44 PM
Just as a prospect, not including pro experience, I would say Mario is a MUCH better prospect.

eacantdraft
07-16-2007, 12:55 PM
Mario was a better prospect. Mario was rated as a top 3 draft pick in a strong draft while Gaines Adam was a top 15 pick in a weak draft. Enough said.

Mario is a better run stopper. Adams is like your Dwight Feeneys. Good pass rusher, suspect run stopper.

ncstateviking
07-16-2007, 12:59 PM
mario is 100 times the prospect and will probably be 10 times the pro. no even close.

Woody56
07-16-2007, 01:02 PM
Mario Williams

irishbucsfan
07-16-2007, 01:13 PM
Naturally what happens in the real world doesn't matter, and only a player's stats on Madden, so that said, I was just wondering why Mario Williams is a fast, weak DE in Madden when he's 6'7" 295lbs and benched around 36 times at the combine. I always look forward to what rookies will be given but this seemed way off to me.

nbarnett56
07-16-2007, 02:44 PM
Perfect! Everyone agrees with me. :)

He was saying that Adams is the better player and has alot more "tools" than Mario. He also went on to say that he watched every game Adams was in that he "brung it" every week unlike Mario and that Mario was also "hyped" up alot more which is why we went #1.

Ironically he is a Panthers fans and I tried to explain to him that Mario is just like Peppers whereas Adams is better suited to play the Cover 2. I tried to explain to him that Mario was constantly doubled teamed and cut block in college and I believe he even injured his leg from a cut block midway through the season. And that he played with an injured foot as a rookie.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-16-2007, 02:54 PM
This isn't even close. Like, at all. Mario Williams all the way.

Bradentonian
07-16-2007, 03:16 PM
Mario and it's not even close

Shiver
07-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Gaines Adams is like Mario Williams if he was slower, weaker, smaller, less athletic, two years older and less productive in college. Other then that they are pretty close.

tylerb929
07-16-2007, 05:53 PM
Mario Williams is the better prospect, Gaines is all pass rush where as Mario can do it all, he definately has some power. We'll have to wait 2 or 3 years though to see how their pro careers compare. Gaines may have the benefit of a system that works to his advantage, where as Mario may just be stuck on a defense that can't support him (I've got no doubt Okoye and Demeco can help him out though).

I tried to explain to him that Mario was constantly doubled teamed

I didn't watch a lot of N.C. State games, but I find it hard to believe that with two other 1st rounders (Manny Lawson and John McCargo) that he had to take on constant double teams.

OhioState
07-16-2007, 06:20 PM
i would say Mario based on his size speed and run stopping ability

HoopsDemon12
07-16-2007, 06:24 PM
Gaines Adams is like Mario Williams if he was slower, weaker, smaller, less athletic, two years older and less productive in college. Other then that they are pretty close.

haha that post right there sums it up completly.... that is definatly going into my sig

simms2clayton
07-16-2007, 07:35 PM
I think Gaines is the better pass rusher, but Mario has much more upside and is a better player than Gaines.

keylime_5
07-16-2007, 08:47 PM
Mario by far. But then again, Mario has the potential to be a huge bust, I think Gaines has a higher floor for success and less injury problems.

ncst8fan83
07-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Mario Williams is the better prospect, Gaines is all pass rush where as Mario can do it all, he definately has some power. We'll have to wait 2 or 3 years though to see how their pro careers compare. Gaines may have the benefit of a system that works to his advantage, where as Mario may just be stuck on a defense that can't support him (I've got no doubt Okoye and Demeco can help him out though).



I didn't watch a lot of N.C. State games, but I find it hard to believe that with two other 1st rounders (Manny Lawson and John McCargo) that he had to take on constant double teams.

if he wasn't double teamed, it was more of a TE cut block which he'd have to hurdle, followed by a RB trying to knock him off balance. Otherwise, it was an OT and TE/RB every down. McCargo was more of a 1/2 gap DT that didn't require a ton of double teams. If I were to guess, I'd say Mario was double teamed on at least 65-70 percent of the plays he took part in in college. As for who is better as a prospect? I don't think it's close but I'm not gonna say who I'm going to choose. Don't want to seem like too much of a homer. :)

WMD
07-16-2007, 09:12 PM
Mario Williams would eat Gaines Adams for breakfast.

Beans
07-16-2007, 09:15 PM
This thread makes me sad.

DraftMichaelHuff
07-16-2007, 09:17 PM
Now for the next brain teaser. Who is/was better prospect Peter Warrick or Calvin Johnson

VY10
07-16-2007, 09:29 PM
This thread makes me sad.

Duh. Gaines Adams was a terrible pick.

Go_Eagles77
07-16-2007, 09:52 PM
Duh. Gaines Adams was a terrible pick.

What are you talking about? It was definitely not a terrible pick, they had a need at DE and he was the best DE in the draft. Just because Mario is better doesn't make Adams a bad pick for the bucs, that was a pretty ignorant statement by you.

HoopsDemon12
07-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Duh. Gaines Adams was a terrible pick.

What are you talking about? It was definitely not a terrible pick, they had a need at DE and he was the best DE in the draft. Just because Mario is better doesn't make Adams a bad pick for the bucs, that was a pretty ignorant statement by you.

ya i was gonna say... its the top to DE prospects from the past two draft classes... its no adams fault he is not 6'7 290

DWilliams2IndyColts
07-16-2007, 10:54 PM
Mario Williams is the better prospect, Gaines is all pass rush where as Mario can do it all, he definately has some power. We'll have to wait 2 or 3 years though to see how their pro careers compare. Gaines may have the benefit of a system that works to his advantage, where as Mario may just be stuck on a defense that can't support him (I've got no doubt Okoye and Demeco can help him out though).



I didn't watch a lot of N.C. State games, but I find it hard to believe that with two other 1st rounders (Manny Lawson and John McCargo) that he had to take on constant double teams.And Tank Tyler.

CC.SD
07-16-2007, 11:40 PM
Now for the next brain teaser. Who is/was better prospect Peter Warrick or Calvin Johnson

Oh man, that's messed up. Who was the number 2 guy at Georgia Tech? I pick him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Naturally what happens in the real world doesn't matter, and only a player's stats on Madden, so that said, I was just wondering why Mario Williams is a fast, weak DE in Madden when he's 6'7" 295lbs and benched around 36 times at the combine. I always look forward to what rookies will be given but this seemed way off to me.

Cuz they had a crush on Reggie Bush. They also listed Mario as 265 lbs. They gave him 40 awareness. There is no other logical way to explain those on top of his weakness. Hell, I drafted 227 lb. JARVIS FREAKING MOSS after year 2, and HE is stronger than Mario. That ain't right.

WMD
07-17-2007, 07:15 PM
Now for the next brain teaser. Who is/was better prospect Peter Warrick or Calvin Johnson

It's a no brainer... Peter Warrick.

raiderfan_89
07-17-2007, 10:23 PM
Better prospect=Mario Williams.
Who will have a better career=Gaines Adams
3 reasons.
1.Bucs D.
2.Bucs D.
3.Bucs D.
:D

Caddy
07-18-2007, 01:25 AM
Mario is far and away the better prospect and I cannot see how anybody can refute that fact.

raiderfan_89
07-18-2007, 01:39 AM
Mario is far and away the better prospect and I cannot see how anybody can refute that fact.
prospect is right.
Pro?
we don't know.

Caddy
07-18-2007, 02:16 AM
prospect is right.
Pro?
we don't know.

Well I guess we'll find out won't we.

HoopsDemon12
07-18-2007, 01:06 PM
Well I guess we'll find out won't we.

no we wont... one of them is bound to have a career ending injury and these pointless speculation threads on who will be the better pro will turn into who would have been ....

Nothing against the pointless disscussion threads as i always post in em

nbarnett56
07-18-2007, 01:14 PM
no we wont... one of them is bound to have a career ending injury and these pointless speculation threads on who will be the better pro will turn into who would have been ....

Nothing against the pointless disscussion threads as i always post in em

This thread was never intended to be a "who will be better" thread. All I asked was who everyone thought is the better player. The 1st responses keep it the way I intended it, which was to compare their abilities. It was never meant to be a who will be better than who thread which these last few posters turned it into.

zCaddyz
07-18-2007, 04:18 PM
ummmm aint no' gaines adams faster then super mario williams but anyways gaines i hope will be a better pro cuz of how we play

Caddy
07-18-2007, 04:26 PM
no we wont... one of them is bound to have a career ending injury and these pointless speculation threads on who will be the better pro will turn into who would have been ....

Nothing against the pointless disscussion threads as i always post in em

50% of NFL players do not suffer career ending injuries which is what you imply.

tylerb929
07-18-2007, 04:42 PM
50% of NFL players do not suffer career ending injuries which is what you imply.

Yeah, but the Bucs and Texans are horribly unlucky as of late.

CC.SD
07-18-2007, 07:04 PM
Yeah, but the Bucs and Texans are horribly unlucky as of late.

The Texans aren't unlucky, they are just braindead. Although, being braindead would be pretty unlucky. It's a little like the chicken or the egg.

raiderfan_89
07-18-2007, 08:10 PM
Well I guess we'll find out won't we.these threads are kinda pointless, but this is an NFL draft site and we are talking prospects and players here so it's not too pointless.
;D

Vikes99ej
07-19-2007, 01:34 AM
ummmm aint no' gaines adams faster then super mario williams but anyways gaines i hope will be a better pro cuz of how we play

This is sig quotable.

Caddy
07-19-2007, 03:48 AM
Yeah, but the Bucs and Texans are horribly unlucky as of late.

But to say that 50% of NFL players sustain career ending injuries is ludicrous. One of them busting is much more likely.

kmartin575
07-19-2007, 06:41 AM
Mario's rookie sack numbers sure did not impress. Hopefully he will improve this year.

ncst8fan83
07-19-2007, 11:23 AM
Mario's rookie sack numbers sure did not impress. Hopefully he will improve this year.

spoken as someone who has never experienced plantar fasciitis, i assume?

HoopsDemon12
07-19-2007, 11:44 AM
50% of NFL players do not suffer career ending injuries which is what you imply.

it was kind of a joke.... but its okay

kmartin575
07-19-2007, 05:26 PM
spoken as someone who has never experienced plantar fasciitis, i assume?

Tamba Hali played in every game last year but was limited in about 3 games because of a hip flexor injury which is a horrible injury to have for a defensive end. That didn't stop him from collecting 58 tackles, 8 sacks, 1 interception, 2 PD, 5 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery.

raiderfan_89
07-19-2007, 05:31 PM
Why is nobody talking about my boy Quentin Moses?
:]
He will out perform any of these college studs who have yet to prove themselves in the pros.
:]
You heard it from me.I'll take all the credit when he gets 10 sacks this season.
;D

kmartin575
07-19-2007, 06:40 PM
Why is nobody talking about my boy Quentin Moses?
:]
He will out perform any of these college studs who have yet to prove themselves in the pros.
:]
You heard it from me.I'll take all the credit when he gets 10 sacks this season.
;D

And Quentin Moses has proven himself in the pros?

LMAO

He had Charles Johnson opposite of him and he still could only get 4.5 sacks.

Caddy
07-20-2007, 04:14 AM
Why is nobody talking about my boy Quentin Moses?
:]
He will out perform any of these college studs who have yet to prove themselves in the pros.
:]
You heard it from me.I'll take all the credit when he gets 10 sacks this season.
;D

I wonder if you would share the same optimism if Moses was playing for a team that didn't start with O and end in akland.

Sniper
07-20-2007, 05:22 AM
Tamba Hali played in every game last year but was limited in about 3 games because of a hip flexor injury which is a horrible injury to have for a defensive end. That didn't stop him from collecting 58 tackles, 8 sacks, 1 interception, 2 PD, 5 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery.

I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a hip flexor rather than plantar facsiitis. Just my opinion though.

ncst8fan83
07-20-2007, 12:48 PM
Tamba Hali played in every game last year but was limited in about 3 games because of a hip flexor injury which is a horrible injury to have for a defensive end. That didn't stop him from collecting 58 tackles, 8 sacks, 1 interception, 2 PD, 5 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery.

hmm, 3 games with a hip flexor injury vs. an entire season with plantar fasciitis? Man!! Your logic is just too impressive. Playing an entire season with plantar fasciitis is impressive. Treatment for that injury is two months off your feet and it can turn into a recurring problem if not treated. I'm glad Hali had a great season, but comparing these two injuries, especially given the length of each, is asinine.

Jonathan_VIlma
07-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Williams may have been the better prospect, but I think that Gaines Adams is a much bigger gamebreaker. He's going to take over a game unlike Mario Williams atleast from what I've seen.

Shiver
07-20-2007, 03:16 PM
Williams may have been the better prospect, but I think that Gaines Adams is a much bigger gamebreaker. He's going to take over a game unlike Mario Williams atleast from what I've seen.

Give me a Defensive End that can play against the run and only gets 8-10 sacks over a 12-15 sack pass rusher who is a liability against the run, any day.

princefielder28
07-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Give me a Defensive End that can play against the run and only gets 8-10 sacks over a 12-15 sack pass rusher who is a liability against the run, any day.

Agree. Can still rush the passer effectively but can stuff the run as well

Iamcanadian
07-21-2007, 07:01 AM
As a pro prospect Mario certainly rated higher mainly for his ability to stop the run as well as rush the passer. Adams is a 1 trick pony, a superb pass rusher who is only adaquete as a run defender. Howerver, Adams was drafted by a Tampa 2 defense where he should excel as Tampa 2 teams require their DE's to really attack the QB and are willing to sacrifice something concerning the run. It is way too early to assess who will be the better pro. Once drafted, it is your production on the field that counts not where you were drafted. Mario is not close to being an All Pro just yet. You'll have to come back in about 3 years to find out who turned out to be the better pro.Right now, there is absolutely nothing to go on except potential and unrealized potential doesn't count for much.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2007, 07:07 AM
Williams may have been the better prospect, but I think that Gaines Adams is a much bigger gamebreaker. He's going to take over a game unlike Mario Williams atleast from what I've seen.

I can't possibly see the reasoning behind this. What is your definition of "taking over a game"? Sure, Adams is a nice sack artists, but he will never physically dominate any NFL offensive lineman. Mario Williams will.

draftguru151
07-21-2007, 08:18 AM
I'm a big fan of Adams and think he will be a fantastic pass rusher but that is pretty ridiculous to me as well. Do people not remember Mario getting 15 sacks his junior year? Or completely taking over the Maryland game? Mario isn't just a guy who will get 8-10 sacks and play the run well, he can get 14-16 sacks and stop the run, where Adams can get the 14-16 sacks and be mediocre against the run.

Sniper
07-21-2007, 11:09 AM
I'm a big fan of Adams and think he will be a fantastic pass rusher but that is pretty ridiculous to me as well. Do people not remember Mario getting 15 sacks his junior year? Or completely taking over the Maryland game? Mario isn't just a guy who will get 8-10 sacks and play the run well, he can get 14-16 sacks and stop the run, where Adams can get the 14-16 sacks and be mediocre against the run.

So you're saying Adams is the next Freeney? Who would Williams compare to then? Peppers?

BamaFalcon59
07-21-2007, 11:34 AM
So you're saying Adams is the next Freeney? Who would Williams compare to then? Peppers?

Reggie White IMO. I don't see Peppers having the same strength (or size) that Williams has. Williams, although they might not put him inside anymore, has the ability to play any position on the defensive line for an entire game. I don't see Peppers having the ability to do that consistently, although I may be wrong. I think Calais Campbell compares to Peppers.

tylerb929
07-21-2007, 03:00 PM
So you're saying Adams is the next Freeney? Who would Williams compare to then? Peppers?

I think Adams compares more favorably to Leonard Little, just hopefully without the character flaws. Where as Williams will never have the sack numbers because he is too big to be explosive enough to get to the quarterback that fast, he'll play the run extremely well, get his QB pressures, and get some sacks on the plays where the CBs make the QB hold the ball just a hair longer. Not sure who he really compares to.

keylime_5
07-22-2007, 09:54 PM
Gaines Adams is like Mario Williams if he was slower, weaker, smaller, less athletic, two years older and less productive in college. Other then that they are pretty close.

lol, that's a good one.

Vikes99ej
07-22-2007, 10:05 PM
I think in this year's draft we could see DEs who resemble Williams and Adams in Calais Campbell and Vernon Gholston.

keylime_5
07-22-2007, 10:17 PM
Only Gholston's not as big as Adams, but is probably stronger and will fit better in the 3-4 as an OLB....But yeah, I see your point.

Vikes99ej
07-22-2007, 10:20 PM
I absolutely love Gholston. We didn't get Adams this year, but i hope we can get Gholston in 2008. How do you think he would do in a Cover 2? I thought about making a thread about him.

Shiver
07-23-2007, 12:18 PM
I'm a big fan of Adams and think he will be a fantastic pass rusher but that is pretty ridiculous to me as well. Do people not remember Mario getting 15 sacks his junior year? Or completely taking over the Maryland game? Mario isn't just a guy who will get 8-10 sacks and play the run well, he can get 14-16 sacks and stop the run, where Adams can get the 14-16 sacks and be mediocre against the run.

That's his upside, granted. By what I said, at the least Mario Williams will be a 8-10 sack guy with dominant run stopping potential. If he could reach his potential he'd take the throne as the best DE in the NFL.

Pack_Attack_4
07-23-2007, 04:20 PM
Mario. Not even debatable at this point (check back in 2-3 years maybe). Mario has much better physical tools, endured his rookie season, improved with each game, and still has a ton of potential to reach. Gaines hasn't even hit training camp.

i totally agreee super mario all day

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-23-2007, 05:01 PM
I think Adams compares more favorably to Leonard Little, just hopefully without the character flaws. Where as Williams will never have the sack numbers because he is too big to be explosive enough to get to the quarterback that fast, he'll play the run extremely well, get his QB pressures, and get some sacks on the plays where the CBs make the QB hold the ball just a hair longer. Not sure who he really compares to.


He ran a 4.73. That's more than fast enough to get sacks, especially since it's .05 slower than Adams. That's not a big difference at all. Plus Mario's vertical is 5 inches better, which is a great indicator of explosion. And his superior strength means he can run through a tackle more than Gaines, who has to run more around them. That will make up for the tiny difference in speed(if there even is any)

Shiver
07-23-2007, 05:10 PM
Mario Williams

10-yard Dash - 1.60
20-yard Dash - 2.77
40-yard Dash - 4.70
Vertical Jump - 40" 1/2
Broad Jump - 10'0"
20-yard Shuttle - 4.37
3-cone - 7.21
Bench Press Reps - 35

Gaines Adams

10-yard Dash - 1.58
20-yard Dash - 2.71
40-yard Dash - 4.64
Vertical Jump - 35"
Broad Jump - 9'11"
20-yard Shuttle - 4.36
3-cone - 7.17
Bench Press Reps - 21

The speed, agility and acceleration difference is negligible. Though slightly in Adams' favor, when it comes down to milliseconds it doesn't translate on the actual football field. Strength and size, it isn't even close, it is obviously in Williams' favor. On the field, Williams had a monster Junior year, which was better than Adams' respective Junior campaign.

VY10
07-23-2007, 07:49 PM
In the end Mario is more explosive and stronger than Gaines Adams is. Even though he barely edges Mario out for a forty time, if a DE ever has to run 40 yards in a straight line on a play there are other things to worry about.

Conclusion, Mario is in fact Gaines Adams "Daddy".

Geo
07-23-2007, 08:09 PM
Gaines Adams landed to a great fit with Tampa imo: the Bucs desperately need a young, quick playmaker at RDE to supplant Simeon Rice as soon as possible, and with a defense transitioning from its veterans, acquiring the cat-quick Adams to be a new linchpin to build on was a very good move, I thought.

I loved Adams at Clemson, and believe he can succeed in the present defensive shceme at Tampa, though I suppose we'll see what becomes of the coaching staff (Monte Kiffin included) after this season.

Thoughts on what kind of contribution we'll see from him in 2007, much like we wondered and watched from Super Mario last year? I think Adams has a good rookie year - not to the level that we saw from Freeney and Peppers in 2002 or T-Sizzle in 2003, given the state of the Bucs offensively and defensively - but a good year nonetheless.

Larry
07-25-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a hip flexor rather than plantar facsiitis. Just my opinion though.


As a defensive end where you have bend over every play I wouldn't.

draftguru151
07-25-2007, 02:11 PM
As a defensive end where you have bend over every play I wouldn't.

I didn't know Williams didn't use his feet to play DE.

Sniper
07-25-2007, 02:25 PM
I didn't know Williams didn't use his feet to play DE.

You didn't? A little late on the uptake there aren't we? ;) But yeah using your feet is completely overrated.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-25-2007, 02:32 PM
Everyone knows the best players hand walk to the QB.

Shiver
07-25-2007, 04:06 PM
Interesting fact: Pro Football Prospectus 2007 said that Mario Williams was already a dominant run defender.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-25-2007, 05:49 PM
Can Gaines do this? (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mElEIPg9ejk)

Geo
07-26-2007, 08:18 PM
Gaines Adams landed to a great fit with Tampa imo: the Bucs desperately need a young, quick playmaker at RDE to supplant Simeon Rice as soon as possible, and with a defense transitioning from its veterans, acquiring the cat-quick Adams to be a new linchpin to build on was a very good move, I thought.

I loved Adams at Clemson, and believe he can succeed in the present defensive shceme at Tampa, though I suppose we'll see what becomes of the coaching staff (Monte Kiffin included) after this season.

Thoughts on what kind of contribution we'll see from him in 2007, much like we wondered and watched from Super Mario last year? I think Adams has a good rookie year - not to the level that we saw from Freeney and Peppers in 2002 or T-Sizzle in 2003, given the state of the Bucs offensively and defensively - but a good year nonetheless.
With the Bucs partingg ways with veteran Simeon Rice today, Adams will have a better year than I originally thought.

datchapin
07-27-2007, 08:43 AM
This thread makes me happy.

Iamcanadian
07-27-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm a big fan of Adams and think he will be a fantastic pass rusher but that is pretty ridiculous to me as well. Do people not remember Mario getting 15 sacks his junior year? Or completely taking over the Maryland game? Mario isn't just a guy who will get 8-10 sacks and play the run well, he can get 14-16 sacks and stop the run, where Adams can get the 14-16 sacks and be mediocre against the run.

Ya, but neither has done much just yet. It's all speculation based on potential. Talking about it now is absurd. Nobody can tell how either will pan out. Give it a few years and then you can see if potential was realized.

Addict
07-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Gaines Adams is like Mario Williams if he was slower, weaker, smaller, less athletic, two years older and less productive in college. Other then that they are pretty close.

hahahaha poor gaines. You're 100% right though

Naturally what happens in the real world doesn't matter, and only a player's stats on Madden, so that said, I was just wondering why Mario Williams is a fast, weak DE in Madden when he's 6'7" 295lbs and benched around 36 times at the combine. I always look forward to what rookies will be given but this seemed way off to me.

For a DE in madden the 76(?) strenght he has isn't bad at all, besides in franchise you can improve strength, so it's not really all that important, I think they went easy on the strenght to avoid him having a rediculous ovr rating in the game as a rookie. Just guessing though.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Mario lacks a explosive 1st step,in the pros. And the 1st step seperates the elite from the good players. Gaines has an explosive 1st step of the ball,just like a freeney or a peppers type.. Better pass rusher Gaines Adams, better all around prospect Mario Williams

Turtlepower
07-30-2007, 06:13 PM
Mario Williams = Michael Strahan (Balanced, but can get to the QB)

Gaines Adams = Simeon Rice (Can sack the QB, not much else.)

draftguru151
07-30-2007, 06:14 PM
Ok Jamie Dukes. Last year Williams didn't show the explosion, but he had an injured foot all season long. In college he definitely showed that explosion. Does he have a Freeney/Jason Taylor first step? No, but neither does Adams. Adams didn't have the best first step in the draft last year.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 06:33 PM
Adams has an explosive first step. Williams doesn't,even before the injury. Sure he had a good first step,in college, but in the NFL these OT are much better.

No one is talking about the draft this is between Williams and Adams,so keep it that way. And Williams is trying to lose some weight because he knows he lack that first step.

draftguru151
07-30-2007, 06:46 PM
And where did Adams show this great first step? Last time I checked he played in college last year. You're comparing an injured Mario Williams to a healthy Gaines Adams, doesn't seem very fair.

Caddy
07-30-2007, 06:57 PM
Fresh is a Buc fan DG and his homerism is shining through. Williams was the better prospect and that's all there is to it.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Homerism? I said Williams was a better prospect than Adams. Then I said Adams is a natural pass rusher- while Williams is the balanced type that can do it all. You will see Adams first step this year guru,im just saying Williams doesn't have an explsosive first step. And Mario agrees with me as he is know attempting to lose weight,this offseason. He is healthy now,correct? And if hes healthy he shouldn't have to lose weight because he already has an explosive 1st step right guru?

Fresh is a Buc fan DG and his homerism is shining through. Williams was the better prospect and that's all there is to it.

No one asked to cosign,thanks though!

BamaFalcon59
07-30-2007, 07:56 PM
You also said that great first step seperates the elite from the good. Implying Gaines Adams is elite and Mario is just good. Saying Mario doesn't have the potential to be elite, amazing first step or not, is crazy.

BamaFalcon59
07-30-2007, 07:58 PM
Ok Jamie Dukes. Last year Williams didn't show the explosion, but he had an injured foot all season long. In college he definitely showed that explosion. Does he have a Freeney/Jason Taylor first step? No, but neither does Adams. Adams didn't have the best first step in the draft last year.

IMO that has to be Anthony Spencer. Watching him at the Senior Bowl you could just see him off the ball before anyone else on the trenches. Granted Adams wasn't there, but it was very impressive none the less.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 08:05 PM
I never implyed that Adams was elite- as he never played a down in the NFL. I said a great first step seperates the elite from the good pass rushers. Elite pass rusher, not elite overall DE.

draftguru151
07-30-2007, 11:20 PM
Homerism? I said Williams was a better prospect than Adams. Then I said Adams is a natural pass rusher- while Williams is the balanced type that can do it all. You will see Adams first step this year guru,im just saying Williams doesn't have an explsosive first step. And Mario agrees with me as he is know attempting to lose weight,this offseason. He is healthy now,correct? And if hes healthy he shouldn't have to lose weight because he already has an explosive 1st step right guru?

I saw Adams explosive step in about 7-8 games last year, I never said he didn't have an explosive first step, just not the best in the class (bamafalcon got it right with Spencer, his first step is ridiculous). I'm saying to say that Williams doesn't have or hasn't shown a great first step before is ridiculous. It's isn't the best, but to say he doesn't have a great first step isn't true. Not sure why he is losing weight, haven't read anything about that (do you have a link to that?), but it could be for many different reasons.

Shiver
07-30-2007, 11:29 PM
Williams had a nearly identical 10-yard dash to Adams, which is ideal for measuring explosion off the line.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 11:45 PM
I saw Adams explosive step in about 7-8 games last year, I never said he didn't have an explosive first step, just not the best in the class (bamafalcon got it right with Spencer, his first step is ridiculous). I'm saying to say that Williams doesn't have or hasn't shown a great first step before is ridiculous. It's isn't the best, but to say he doesn't have a great first step isn't true. Not sure why he is losing weight, haven't read anything about that (do you have a link to that?), but it could be for many different reasons.

No link for that,the crew from NFL Network aired and came to the Texans camp and reported that like a few weeks ago.

draftguru151
07-30-2007, 11:58 PM
Which was the same time Dukes was spewing crap about Williams and his lack of a first step.

Fitzgerald11
07-31-2007, 01:41 PM
The only thing Gaines Adams can do better than Mario Williams is be a cover 2 defensive end. Mario is bigger, stronger, and just as fast. His physical tools are among the elite.

yourfavestoner
07-31-2007, 02:05 PM
Mario Williams = Michael Strahan (Balanced, but can get to the QB)

Gaines Adams = Simeon Rice (Can sack the QB, not much else.)

Yet Strahan is the one who holds the single season sack record and will probably have more career sacks than Rice when it's all said and done.

Geo
07-31-2007, 02:56 PM
The only thing Gaines Adams can do better than Mario Williams is be a cover 2 defensive end. Mario is bigger, stronger, and just as fast. His physical tools are among the elite.
Adams would be a much better 3-4 OLB.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Yet Strahan is the one who holds the single season sack record and will probably have more career sacks than Rice when it's all said and done.

This is true, but he also does/did a much better job of stuffing the run.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 11:38 PM
Jamaal Anderson is much more like Mario than Gaines Adams is. And I think both are better than Adams as both can get after the passer like he can while also having the size and bpower to manhandle the run, that being said Mario will be one of the top 3 DEs in the league in a few years while I see Anderson cracking the top 10 but never challenging for top 3.

toonsterwu
08-02-2007, 09:36 PM
Who is the better player? I don't think its even close but I'm debating with someone who thinks differently.

Who's better? Well ... only time will tell on that. Who graded out higher would easily be Mario Williams. Who's better against the run would likely be Mario. Who's the better pass rusher at similar points would be Gaines Adams, IMO. But different types of players, and different types of usage. Gaines isn't going to slide inside, and Mario won't drop into coverage as much as Gaines might.

ncst8fan83
08-03-2007, 03:34 PM
I saw Adams explosive step in about 7-8 games last year, I never said he didn't have an explosive first step, just not the best in the class (bamafalcon got it right with Spencer, his first step is ridiculous). I'm saying to say that Williams doesn't have or hasn't shown a great first step before is ridiculous. It's isn't the best, but to say he doesn't have a great first step isn't true. Not sure why he is losing weight, haven't read anything about that (do you have a link to that?), but it could be for many different reasons.

he's losing weight because he's trying to not put as much pressure on the arch of his foot so his injury doesn't recur. he didn't have an explosive first step last year because the arch of his foot was in a constant cramp. i'm not a professional runner, but i believe there is a ton of pressure on the ball of your foot to get that "explosion" off the line, which would pull at that ligament that creates your foot arch. his #1 priority should be to get as healthy as possible this year. if that means he needs to get to 250lbs, go for it. I don't care. I'll take a healthy 250lb Mario Williams over a hurt 295lb Mario Williams. Might just be me though.

CC.SD
08-03-2007, 07:37 PM
Adams would be a much better 3-4 OLB.

I think that too. It's probably a minority opinion though. He's definitely athletic enough.

toonsterwu
08-04-2007, 12:02 PM
I think that too. It's probably a minority opinion though. He's definitely athletic enough.

Why would this be a minority opinion? He basically played a 3-4 OLB role throughout parts of his collegiate career, and he definitely has the athleticism to make the switch. Not disagreeing with you ... but I would think that this would be a majority opinion based upon his collegiate role and some of his concerns as a 4-3 end. That said, I think, particularly in the Tampa 2, that Gaines can be real successful as a 4-3 end as well.

zCaddyz
08-21-2007, 12:28 AM
Just lettin yall know in gaines has 6 tackles- 1 sack- 1 ff in only two preseason i know its preseason but still

GB12
08-21-2007, 12:46 AM
Just lettin yall know in gaines has 6 tackles- 1 sack- 1 ff in only two preseason i know its preseason but still
Those numbers really aren't that impressive.

Caddy
08-21-2007, 01:25 AM
There is a reason it's called pre-season.

619
08-21-2007, 01:40 AM
r u kidding me mario williams is WAY better then gaines adams..in fact he is one of the greatest DE propsects of all time to go along with julius peppers and bruce smith who were also very highly rated comin out of college.also mario was 21 comin out of college while gaines came out at age 24

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/keepnitgangsta1/Sigs%202/Reggie-Bush.gif

Caddy
08-21-2007, 02:22 AM
r u kidding me mario williams is WAY better then gaines adams..in fact he is one of the greatest DE propsects of all time to go along with julius peppers and bruce smith who were also very highly rated comin out of college.also mario was 21 comin out of college while gaines came out at age 24



Agreed. As a prospect, Williams is one of the best, ever.

Addict
08-21-2007, 03:49 AM
Agreed. As a prospect, Williams is one of the best, ever.

I still feel Peppers was better. He is yet to prove me wrong.

Caddy
08-21-2007, 04:08 AM
I still feel Peppers was better. He is yet to prove me wrong.

Hence "one" of the best.

Addict
08-21-2007, 04:10 AM
Hence "one" of the best.

I wasn't disagreeing. I was stating my opinion. You were right on the statement.

Caddy
08-21-2007, 06:33 AM
I wasn't disagreeing. I was stating my opinion. You were right on the statement.

I just assumed considering you quoted me.

Addict
08-21-2007, 07:48 AM
I just assumed considering you quoted me.

I just figured I'd quote you so it'd be clear what I was responding to.

I totally feel people who quote themselves are idiots.

OMG :| did I just?

zCaddyz
08-21-2007, 01:10 PM
and he had a batted pass, u guy show no love for him what did mario do his first two preseaon games

Moses
08-21-2007, 02:33 PM
and he had a batted pass, u guy show no love for him what did mario do his first two preseaon games

Is this seriously your argument for Adams over Williams?

HoopsDemon12
08-21-2007, 02:36 PM
the raiders went 4-0 in last years pre-season..... to me it means nothing until they play in the regular season.. the speed and intesity of the game changes

P-L
08-21-2007, 02:41 PM
Please, correct me if I wrong but isn't Gaines playing with the 2nd-team defense so far? That means he is going up against backup OT so far in the preseason. Those stats really aren't that impressive going up against 2nd team offenses.

zCaddyz
08-21-2007, 04:30 PM
nah he's playin on firsts string too but only on 3 downs, i never say gaines is a better DE propsects but gaines will have better numbers sep tackles

Caddy
08-21-2007, 04:32 PM
The thread was about who was the better prospect. The better prospect was Williams. Case Closed.

zCaddyz
08-21-2007, 04:38 PM
i was updatein but got sucked in

Canadian_kid16
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
Gaines better do big things fast seeing as he's 24...we are only gonna get like 8 years outta him if he sticks around that long

fenikz
08-21-2007, 05:08 PM
Williams is by far the better overall prospect

Adams is a better pure pass rusher than him though