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View Full Version : Is Luis Castillo the best 3-4 DE in the league?


bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 10:21 AM
Ive debated this in my mind. If you watch Castillo play, he seems just as dominant if not more dominant than Seymour.

Seymours best numbers were 57 tackles in one season, and 8 sacks in one season. That was 3 years ago, and hasn't quite recaptured that magic since.

In Castillo's 2nd year alone, he has 37 tackles and 7 sacks, with 2 games left to play.

This year Seymour 35 tackles and 4 sacks.

I know Seymour is known for his versatility, but everything he does Castillo does as well. Couple that with a better pass rush, is it far fetched to say that right here right now Castillo is the best 3-4 DE in the league?

Jughead10
12-21-2006, 10:25 AM
I think it is a bit far fetched. Right now Castillo is playing with better talent all around on his defense than Seymour is. Teams look to make sure Seymour is taking care of first. On San Diego I think teams are more worried with Jamal Williams and Merriman.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 10:30 AM
I think it is a bit far fetched. Right now Castillo is playing with better talent all around on his defense than Seymour is. Teams look to make sure Seymour is taking care of first. On San Diego I think teams are more worried with Jamal Williams and Merriman.

I think that has some relevance to it but I also think that NEs front 7 is the most underrated in the league.

Aferall, Seymour has Wilfork right next to him and Bruschi and Vrabel behind him.

Castillo is more fluid and more of a DE than Seymour is. I know a lot of it has to do with guys around them, but the difference isn't as large as you think.

jkpigskin
12-21-2006, 10:35 AM
thats definatly an argument......... personally i think castillo is still youung and hasnt fufilled his potential yet, but where he is now, he could become better than seymour in the next 2 years

danman253
12-21-2006, 10:36 AM
uhhh BBD, wtf is wrong with ur avy?

Number 10
12-21-2006, 10:36 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 10:40 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

Is it too graphic? Should I get rid of it?

danman253
12-21-2006, 10:41 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

Is it too graphic? Should I get rid of it?

Dude come on don't do this.

CC.SD
12-21-2006, 10:42 AM
It's worth mentioning that Castilllo has missed 4 games and has still put up those numbers. He's not even playing at 100 percent now that he's back.

He's pretty crazy. IMO his only competition is Igor Olshansky and Seymour.

Number 10
12-21-2006, 10:44 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

Is it too graphic? Should I get rid of it?

Who are you? Are you trying to get banned?

toonsterwu
12-21-2006, 10:44 AM
In general, I'd probably still take Richard Seymour, but Luis is getting close. I think the big difference is the NT they play with. Williams is far better than Wilfork, and I like Wilfork. But I think Williams is the best NT in the game right now, and does a good job of "freeing up" the ends somewhat. Teams gameplan for Seymour when they face the Pats, and as of now, they don't do that against Castillo yet. I'd have to go over somethings, but I do think I'd still take Seymour in a neutral environment.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 10:46 AM
its gone... I didn't know I could get banned for that.

thetedginnshow
12-21-2006, 10:50 AM
For now, Seymour. For the future, Castillo.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 10:53 AM
Remember guys, he missed 4 games....and he has 7 sacks and 37 tackles! Thats damn impressive.

And think about this. The year Seymour exploded with 8 sacks and 55 tackles, he had Ted Washington at NT and Willie McGinnest at LB with Bruschi and Vrabel behind him. Thats a TON of star talent, just as much if not more than Castillo.

And Castillo was on pace to shatter those numbers had he stayed healthy this year. I think thats damn impressive.

12-21-2006, 10:58 AM
what was on the avatar??

Jughead10
12-21-2006, 10:59 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

Is it too graphic? Should I get rid of it?

Who are you? Are you trying to get banned?

Or trying to get me fired at work. I almost had a heart attack when that came up on my monitor.

12-21-2006, 11:02 AM
ban the ****** its up again

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:02 AM
BBD whats with the avatars?

Is it too graphic? Should I get rid of it?

Who are you? Are you trying to get banned?

Or trying to get me fired at work. I almost had a heart attack when that came up on my monitor.

Really? My coworkers were laughing their butt off. My bad guys.

NIN1984
12-21-2006, 11:03 AM
Yeah as of right now I'll say Seymour, but Castillo is on his way

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:03 AM
ban the ****** its up again

No, that was a different one. Fine guys, I guess I'll stick to the usual ones. I didn't know it was that serious.

12-21-2006, 11:04 AM
both of them were repulsive... why did u put the second one up there?

P-L
12-21-2006, 11:04 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

NIN1984
12-21-2006, 11:06 AM
what was on the avatar??

yes what was it I need to know?

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:07 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

one was a guy getting bitten by a snake, I saw it up here once before once so I didn't know it was banned, the other was a Bruce Lee one owning somebody in one of his movies.

I took them off immediately after people were offended by them. It won't happen again.

12-21-2006, 11:07 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

BBD just thought it would be funny to have 2 big pics of a man ******* himself in the @hole, and a man with a blown-off jaw

12-21-2006, 11:08 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

one was a guy getting bitten by a snake, I saw it up here once before once so I didn't know it was banned, the other was a Bruce Lee one owning somebody in one of his movies.

I took them off immediately after people were offended by them. It won't happen again.

what? NO it was as I said before

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:09 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

one was a guy getting bitten by a snake, I saw it up here once before once so I didn't know it was banned, the other was a Bruce Lee one owning somebody in one of his movies.

I took them off immediately after people were offended by them. It won't happen again.

what? NO it was as I said before

Huh? Thats not what I saw on my screen?

12-21-2006, 11:10 AM
I never saw the avatar, but I assume that the picture was one of those things sites use to prevent hotlinking.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:10 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

BBD just thought it would be funny to have 2 big pics of a man *********** himself in the @hole, and a man with a blown-off jaw

Seriously, if thats what came up on the screen, Im extremely sorry. That is NOT what I uploaded. I had no idea thats what came up on the website, I uploaded what I thought was a Bruce Lee gif image. Thats what I saw on my screen.

Jughead10
12-21-2006, 11:11 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

BBD just thought it would be funny to have 2 big pics of a man *********** himself in the @hole, and a man with a blown-off jaw

Seriously, if thats what came up on the screen, Im extremely sorry. That is NOT what I uploaded. I had no idea thats what came up on the website, I uploaded what I thought was a Bruce Lee gif image. Thats what I saw on my screen.

Thats why I almost had a heart attack when it came up on my screen.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:13 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

BBD just thought it would be funny to have 2 big pics of a man *********** himself in the @hole, and a man with a blown-off jaw

Seriously, if thats what came up on the screen, Im extremely sorry. That is NOT what I uploaded. I had no idea thats what came up on the website, I uploaded what I thought was a Bruce Lee gif image. Thats what I saw on my screen.

Thats why I almost had a heart attack when it came up on my screen.

Wow, I had no idea. Thats so weird, it was a Bruce Lee gif image, why did I see a Bruce Lee gif image but everyone else saw something totally different?

Im deeply sorry for that, I had no intention of that. Ive been on here for some time, most of you know me by now. I had no intention of showing that, none.

Jughead10
12-21-2006, 11:17 AM
What is/are the avatar(s) in question?

BBD just thought it would be funny to have 2 big pics of a man *********** himself in the @hole, and a man with a blown-off jaw

Seriously, if thats what came up on the screen, Im extremely sorry. That is NOT what I uploaded. I had no idea thats what came up on the website, I uploaded what I thought was a Bruce Lee gif image. Thats what I saw on my screen.

Thats why I almost had a heart attack when it came up on my screen.

Wow, I had no idea. Thats so weird, it was a Bruce Lee gif image, why did I see a Bruce Lee gif image but everyone else saw something totally different?

Im deeply sorry for that, I had no intention of that. Ive been on here for some time, most of you know me by now. I had no intention of showing that, none.

I figured that. I thought someone might have hacked into your name or something.

yourfavestoner
12-21-2006, 11:20 AM
Pretty weird, but no harm done.

Back on topic, I've always said that Seymour's natural position is playing inside in a four man front, and I still think that the Patriots are wasting him by playing a 3-4. Also, if you talk to most of the Patriot fans on here, they'll tell you he had a pretty disappointing year, and that Ty Warren outplayed him.

So, yes, I think it is fair to call Castillo the best 3-4 DE. Olshansky is a monster, too, but he never gets any love.

P-L
12-21-2006, 11:24 AM
Ok, situation is done and over with.

So, that Luis Castillo guy...

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:28 AM
Pretty weird, but no harm done.

Back on topic, I've always said that Seymour's natural position is playing inside in a four man front, and I still think that the Patriots are wasting him by playing a 3-4. Also, if you talk to most of the Patriot fans on here, they'll tell you he had a pretty disappointing year, and that Ty Warren outplayed him.

So, yes, I think it is fair to call Castillo the best 3-4 DE. Olshansky is a monster, too, but he never gets any love.

Olshanksy is a beast too. The only reason why he doesn't get noticed is because he doesn't get sacks like Castillo.

The thing thats so great about Castillo, is that he doesn't move like a 290lb DT/DE. He has the speed and fluidity of a 270 DE in a 4-3. And that makes his rush abilities that much better than any other 3-4 DE ive seen this year.

I think Seymour should drop 10 to 15 pounds. He's becoming a little too stoute, he needs to regain some speed and lateral movement to get back into form.

San Diego Chicken
12-21-2006, 11:29 AM
Castillo is one of the best pass rushing DE's period, which is damn impressive when you consider he was a tackle in college and is a gap DE, not an edge pass rusher. He's got an excellent motor. That said I think Seymour is better at the point of attack in the run game.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 11:37 AM
Castillo is one of the best pass rushing DE's period, which is damn impressive when you consider he was a tackle in college and is a gap DE, not an edge pass rusher. He's got an excellent motor. That said I think Seymour is better at the point of attack in the run game.

When you guys come out in a 4 man front with Merriman at DE, where does Castillo go? I never quite payed attention to that.

Im assuming the line was something like this

DE - Merriman
NT - Jamal Williams
UT - Luis Castillo
DE - Shaun Phillips

Am I right?

San Diego Chicken
12-21-2006, 11:45 AM
Castillo is one of the best pass rushing DE's period, which is damn impressive when you consider he was a tackle in college and is a gap DE, not an edge pass rusher. He's got an excellent motor. That said I think Seymour is better at the point of attack in the run game.

When you guys come out in a 4 man front with Merriman at DE, where does Castillo go? I never quite payed attention to that.

Im assuming the line was something like this

DE - Merriman
NT - Jamal Williams
UT - Luis Castillo
DE - Shaun Phillips

Am I right?

That's it except generally it's Williams who rotates out in favor of Jacques Cesaire.

Don Vito
12-21-2006, 11:49 AM
Pretty weird, but no harm done.

Back on topic, I've always said that Seymour's natural position is playing inside in a four man front, and I still think that the Patriots are wasting him by playing a 3-4. Also, if you talk to most of the Patriot fans on here, they'll tell you he had a pretty disappointing year, and that Ty Warren outplayed him.
So, yes, I think it is fair to call Castillo the best 3-4 DE. Olshansky is a monster, too, but he never gets any love.

Great point, I was about to bring that up. Ty Warren and Igor Olshansky are 2 of the top 5 3-4 DE's IMO. I didn't see many Charger games this year, but from what I saw out of Ty Warren he is a budding superstar, and should have been a pro-bowler. Seymour did have a down year (numbers wise) as you mentioned, but that is mainly because he is getting double teamed at the least almost every down.

For now, I give Seymour the edge over Olshansky.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 12:27 PM
What impresses me so much is how fast the SD 3-4 is. Theyre thick in size, but also so damn fast. Its pretty crazy. Its like they got the strength of the 3-4 coupled with the speed of a Cover 2 defense. Kudos to their GM for building one hell of a front 7.

And next year when Cromartie has a year under his belt, with Jammer playing better than ever...imagine if they nab a safety? They most likely will in a deep safety draft class, and oh boy, watch out. This SD team is gonna be dangerous for a long time.

yourfavestoner
12-21-2006, 12:55 PM
Castillo is one of the best pass rushing DE's period, which is damn impressive when you consider he was a tackle in college and is a gap DE, not an edge pass rusher. He's got an excellent motor. That said I think Seymour is better at the point of attack in the run game.

When you guys come out in a 4 man front with Merriman at DE, where does Castillo go? I never quite payed attention to that.

Im assuming the line was something like this

DE - Merriman
NT - Jamal Williams
UT - Luis Castillo
DE - Shaun Phillips

Am I right?

That's it except generally it's Williams who rotates out in favor of Jacques Cesaire.

Cesaire has actually been pretty good at getting pressure on the quarterback this year. His sack total might not reflect it, but he's generally been pretty disruptive in collapsing the pocket, and taking advantage of the one on one matchups that he sees.

DMWSackMachine
12-21-2006, 01:26 PM
What impresses me so much is how fast the SD 3-4 is. Theyre thick in size, but also so damn fast. Its pretty crazy. Its like they got the strength of the 3-4 coupled with the speed of a Cover 2 defense. Kudos to their GM for building one hell of a front 7.

And next year when Cromartie has a year under his belt, with Jammer playing better than ever...imagine if they nab a safety? They most likely will in a deep safety draft class, and oh boy, watch out. This SD team is gonna be dangerous for a long time.

The D is starting to develop into a fearsome unit, that's for sure. As long as Merriman doesn't get busted again, that could bring it all tumbling down. Same goes for the rest of the guys. I know that most won't consider this as a credible source, but there is a guy that frequents the Dallas page that lives in SD, and says that one of his friends is a roommate or something of a backup SD player, and that it is basically common knowledge around the team that Castillo, Merriman, Olshansky, Cesaire, Phillips and Foley are all big-time HGH users. Take it for what it's worth, but the guy actually said it before the Merriman bust. But my point is that if another guy gets caught doping, that could create some serious controversy around the organization.

However, as a team, I am concerned for them. Here's why: LT. They are built around him, and he is nearing the end of his elite years. I think he might have one or two superstar caliber seasons left, before he starts to deteriote into just a "good" player. It's a pity that it took a record breaking season for him to get his just due. He's been the best back in the league for the last 4 years, imo. Hell, his best season before this one he didn't even make the Pro Bowl. But if he doesn't produce like he is now, they aren't going to be good enough on offense to win at an elite level. I know, the same thing happened to Dallas in '96 when Emmitt went from All-Time Great, to just "good" without any warning. We spent the next 5 years thinking he was going to bounce back (since he was so young), and he never did. I have a bad feeling that that is what is going to happen here.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2006, 02:09 PM
What impresses me so much is how fast the SD 3-4 is. Theyre thick in size, but also so damn fast. Its pretty crazy. Its like they got the strength of the 3-4 coupled with the speed of a Cover 2 defense. Kudos to their GM for building one hell of a front 7.

And next year when Cromartie has a year under his belt, with Jammer playing better than ever...imagine if they nab a safety? They most likely will in a deep safety draft class, and oh boy, watch out. This SD team is gonna be dangerous for a long time.

The D is starting to develop into a fearsome unit, that's for sure. As long as Merriman doesn't get busted again, that could bring it all tumbling down. Same goes for the rest of the guys. I know that most won't consider this as a credible source, but there is a guy that frequents the Dallas page that lives in SD, and says that one of his friends is a roommate or something of a backup SD player, and that it is basically common knowledge around the team that Castillo, Merriman, Olshansky, Cesaire, Phillips and Foley are all big-time HGH users. Take it for what it's worth, but the guy actually said it before the Merriman bust. But my point is that if another guy gets caught doping, that could create some serious controversy around the organization.

However, as a team, I am concerned for them. Here's why: LT. They are built around him, and he is nearing the end of his elite years. I think he might have one or two superstar caliber seasons left, before he starts to deteriote into just a "good" player. It's a pity that it took a record breaking season for him to get his just due. He's been the best back in the league for the last 4 years, imo. Hell, his best season before this one he didn't even make the Pro Bowl. But if he doesn't produce like he is now, they aren't going to be good enough on offense to win at an elite level. I know, the same thing happened to Dallas in '96 when Emmitt went from All-Time Great, to just "good" without any warning. We spent the next 5 years thinking he was going to bounce back (since he was so young), and he never did. I have a bad feeling that that is what is going to happen here.

Im ok with their team as long as theres no more suspensions. Im really not as huge on the HGH thing as so many others, because quite honestly, we all have at least 3 star caliber players on each of our teams on HGH. Thats the truth, its just not a SD thing, its a league thing, so I really can't honestly point the finger at them. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a couple of Giant players are on it as we speak, as well as many other high profile guys.

If they get busted with steroids though or some other drug smuggling, then I think you gotta throw out their credibility. But for now, let's assume for argument sakes that theyre defense is fine from now on. That defense is gonna be one hell of a unit for years to come.

Now offensively, LT still has 4 PB caliber years left in him I think. They also did a hell of a job building up their offensive line. Phillip Rivers is gonna develop into an elite qb in the NFL in due time, and they have the best TE in the league (for argument sake). So the only real weakness in the coming years is safety, and WR, since CB looks good with Jammer and Cromartie and Florence.

However, safety will be addressed Im sure in the 1st round this year, and WR is a very overrated position to begin with. And quite honeslty, their WRs don't get the respect they deserve. They have big WRs who Rivers can throw it up to as a safety valve, they have a savvy veteran with reliable hands in McCardell, a Plaxico type receiver in Malcom Floyd and a reliable 2 in Parker. The only thing they lack is a stretch receiver, but their offensive is built around short intermediate throws to big targets, so it really doesn't matter.

So basically, theyre a safety and a stretch receiver away from being arguably the only truely complete team in the NFL. And with most of their guys being young (outside of Edwards, they'll draft his replacement this draft) they really are here to stay I think.

The only way they fall off over the next 4 years is if Phillip Rivers doesn't develop into the qb we all think he will be. I don't see that happening though. This team should win a SB sometime in the next 4 years, they have the talent to at least.

12-21-2006, 02:15 PM
didnt he get suspended for roids?

Jughead10
12-21-2006, 02:17 PM
didnt he get suspended for roids?

He didn't get suspended since it was before he was drafted. However he did test positive. He admitted using claiming it was to heal an injury faster so he could compete at the combine etc. Because of it I believe he entered the NFL already in their substance abuse program.

12-21-2006, 02:18 PM
didnt he get suspended for roids?

He didn't get suspended since it was before he was drafted. However he did test positive. He admitted using claiming it was to heal an injury faster so he could compete at the combine etc. Because of it I believe he entered the NFL already in their substance abuse program.so therefor i dont think he's the best, Seymour is.

CC.SD
12-21-2006, 04:12 PM
didnt he get suspended for roids?

He didn't get suspended since it was before he was drafted. However he did test positive. He admitted using claiming it was to heal an injury faster so he could compete at the combine etc. Because of it I believe he entered the NFL already in their substance abuse program.so therefor i dont think he's the best, Seymour is.

Whatever, the guy has a clause in his contract forfeiting all his money if he ever tests positive again.

draftguru151
12-21-2006, 04:26 PM
He tested positive for Andro which is known to help heal muscles. It's not like he was taking straight up anabolic steroids. Andro is what McGwire took though, so it's still not good.

As for the argument, Castillo is having a great season, and he is a great player, but watching Seymour at least twice a year I can tell you he is a great player, and still the best 3-4 DE. Wilfork is a great player but it is so hard to run at Seymour. He is so good against the run but still gets a good push in the passing game.

Also, I've always been impressed with Cesaire's pass rushing ability. I seem him almost always go in in passing situations and he consistently gets pressure up the middle.

Smooth Criminal
12-21-2006, 04:37 PM
I had him behind Aaron Smith at the begining of the year and he's definately passed him but he's still behind Seymour in my book. I need to see more than one season like this to say he is better than a guy like Seymour that has put alot of years in.

He is definately atleast #2.

Mr. Stiller
12-21-2006, 04:52 PM
I had him behind Aaron Smith at the begining of the year and he's definately passed him but he's still behind Seymour in my book. I need to see more than one season like this to say he is better than a guy like Seymour that has put alot of years in.

He is definately atleast #2.

It's sad that no one really credits Aaron Smith.. Keisel is looking Pretty good.. the guy has what..

50 tackles and 6 sacks?

remix 6
12-22-2006, 01:44 PM
74 tackles 6.5 sacks - Ty Warren

Seymour isnt having a better year than Warren this season..

Seymour is arguably the best DL in league when healthy and u know this..Warren is underrated but having a GREAT year.

not saying Castillo sucks or anything but i dont think u can compare him to Seymour yet

and in a 3-4 you dont measure a DE by his sacks FYI

yourfavestoner
12-22-2006, 01:55 PM
74 tackles 6.5 sacks - Ty Warren

Seymour isnt having a better year than Warren this season..

Seymour is arguably the best DL in league when healthy and u know this..Warren is underrated but having a GREAT year.

not saying Castillo sucks or anything but i dont think u can compare him to Seymour yet

and in a 3-4 you dont measure a DE by his sacks FYI

It's not the only criteria, but it certainly comes into the equation. If one guy is equally as good at stopping the run as another, but can rush the passer as well, it makes him a more valuable player.

keylime_5
12-22-2006, 03:22 PM
Richard Seymour, end of story

JT Jag
12-22-2006, 05:32 PM
Nope.

Not as much talent as Seymour.

Not as good technique as Warren.

rainbeaukid2
12-22-2006, 07:04 PM
castillo is good in his own right, but i dont think that he is at seymour's level. i think that the only reason he has better stats is because the offense also has to account for the rest of the great defense whereas seymour isnt part of a great defense

CC.SD
12-22-2006, 09:12 PM
castillo is good in his own right, but i dont think that he is at seymour's level. i think that the only reason he has better stats is because the offense also has to account for the rest of the great defense whereas seymour isnt part of a great defense

Yes he is.

draftguru151
12-22-2006, 09:16 PM
castillo is good in his own right, but i dont think that he is at seymour's level. i think that the only reason he has better stats is because the offense also has to account for the rest of the great defense whereas seymour isnt part of a great defense

:shock: Seymour's DL is just as talented as the Chargers, and Vrabel and Colvin are studs, and Bruschis is still solid. Chargers front 7 is better, but Seymour has players around him.