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OhioState
07-17-2007, 03:17 PM
I know that LSU has a great set of players on D this year and that they play in the SEC or whatever but i wanna see you guys compare these two units. I really only see them having the advantage at the DT spot and want to know what you guys think

BamaFalcon59
07-17-2007, 03:37 PM
Virginia Tech.

OhioState
07-18-2007, 04:26 PM
well this thread sucks

Michigan
07-18-2007, 05:04 PM
dont know the point of comparing opposing defenses, but i'd break it down like:

D-Line: LSU
Linebackers: Push
Defensive Backs: OSU

USC's D is easily the best in the nation though.

YAYareaRB
07-18-2007, 05:10 PM
dont know the point of comparing opposing defenses, but i'd break it down like:

D-Line: LSU
Linebackers: Push
Defensive Backs: OSU

USC's D is easily the best in the nation though.

They have to potential to be. Isn't Pinkard suspended though? I think it relies heavily on the play of the D-Line. If they can free up Cushing, Maualuga, and Rivers to make plays they should have the lock down Defense everyone is expecting them to have. But, don't sleep on them tigers. Ali Highsmith is leading a VERY talented group along with Glenn Dorsey and co.

1. USC/LSU
2. USC/LSU
3. Ohio State

BamaFalcon59
07-18-2007, 05:11 PM
VaTech has been the best for a couple years now, and I don't see it changing. Only big loss was Aaron Rouse and he had a mediocre year.

OhioState
07-18-2007, 06:28 PM
They have to potential to be. Isn't Pinkard suspended though? I think it relies heavily on the play of the D-Line. If they can free up Cushing, Maualuga, and Rivers to make plays they should have the lock down Defense everyone is expecting them to have. But, don't sleep on them tigers. Ali Highsmith is leading a VERY talented group along with Glenn Dorsey and co.

1. USC/LSU
2. USC/LSU
3. Ohio State

USC has the best linebackers but who does LSU have that make them better than OSU, it's not like they have ever really been known for their lb's

keylime_5
07-18-2007, 07:13 PM
DLine- LSU
Linebackers- Clearly OSU (2nd best core in country behind SC)
DBs-OSU easily if Russell is healthy. Coleman and Jenkins are gonna destroy in that secondary.

OSU has had some great defenses under Tressel. This year's won't compete with 2002, 2003, or 2005 in terms of all around greatness, but it will be special.

PACKmanN
07-18-2007, 07:37 PM
FUS also have a great D too.

Jericho@SC
07-18-2007, 09:24 PM
Give me LSU's D. They're dominant up front and their linebackers can stack up against any unit in the country. Ohio State has to replace two starting tackles.

Not to mention, LSU's secondary is pretty good too. It might not be pound for pound better than OSU's secondary, but their two corners are all SEC caliber. I think it depends on whether or not they can replace Laron Landry. Maybe Chad Jones can step in and pull a Taylor Mays?

gstock05
07-19-2007, 01:14 AM
This year's won't compete with 2002, 2003, or 2005 in terms of all around greatness, but it will be special.


This D will be better than 2003. 2002 and 2005 were incredible D's, I'd say on paper they have as much talent if not more than both those groups.

Just think about it as far as NFL draft picks....

Potential/future 1st rounders

1. Malcolm Jenkins
2. Vern Gholston
3. James Laurinaitis
4. Larry Grant
5. Kurt Coleman (IMO he's a Whitner Clone)
6. Donald Washington - little tidbit here, but he's actually the better overall "cover" corner than Malcolm. Not a better player, but in pure coverage, he's elite and has really stepped up this spring.

2-4 rounders.

1. Todd Denlinger
2. Lawrence Wilson
3. Whoever the 2nd safety is
4. Doug Worthington


Despite that, I think OSU is still behind USC in terms of overall talent.

I don't know a ton about LSU's defense. I do know they're fast and well coached, but who are the big names aside from their defensive tackle? I have a hard time picking them when I can only name 1-2 "star" players off their d that are going to be huge impact players.

TigerBait45
07-19-2007, 02:28 AM
The best D in the country should come down to LSU or Va Tech, I think.

LSU doesn't really have a lot of big names, but they fly under the radar and are excellent. They were a top 5 defense last year and only lost one player of consequence (Landry).

Danny McCray and Chad Jones will probably be the top guys on the chart, but thats really the only spot where LSU breaks in someone new on defense. Craig Steltz is the other safety and he played a ton last year.

Chevis Jackson and Johnathon Zenon are the corners, with Jai Eugene as the nickelback (maybe a starter by the end of the year).

At linebacker, they have Derry Beckwith, Ali Highsmith and either Luke Sanders or Jacob Cutrera. They're honestly all athletic enough to start.

We all know about the D-line. Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, Ricky-Jean Francois and Marlon Favorite are the guys I think will start, but they have so many good linemen it doesn't really matter who the starters are. THey'll rotate in a bunch of guys.

Sniper
07-19-2007, 03:37 AM
Chevis Jackson and Johnathon Zenon are the corners, with Jai Eugene as the nickelback (maybe a starter by the end of the year).



I used to like you TigerBait, but you brought up Jai Eugene and had to remind me of another player that slipped through Michigan's fingers. Thanks a whole bunch ;)

Staying on topic, I love LSU's defense. It all starts on the line and a nasty line makes everyone's job easier and makes everyone look better. Look at Michigan and Alan Branch last year. I think that LSU's line has so much potential it's absurd. Plus, Ali Highsmith is a manbeast at LB.

OhioState
07-19-2007, 08:45 AM
This D will be better than 2003. 2002 and 2005 were incredible D's, I'd say on paper they have as much talent if not more than both those groups.

Just think about it as far as NFL draft picks....

Potential/future 1st rounders

1. Malcolm Jenkins
2. Vern Gholston
3. James Laurinaitis
4. Larry Grant
5. Kurt Coleman (IMO he's a Whitner Clone)
6. Donald Washington - little tidbit here, but he's actually the better overall "cover" corner than Malcolm. Not a better player, but in pure coverage, he's elite and has really stepped up this spring.

2-4 rounders.

1. Todd Denlinger
2. Lawrence Wilson
3. Whoever the 2nd safety is
4. Doug Worthington


Despite that, I think OSU is still behind USC in terms of overall talent.

I don't know a ton about LSU's defense. I do know they're fast and well coached, but who are the big names aside from their defensive tackle? I have a hard time picking them when I can only name 1-2 "star" players off their d that are going to be huge impact players.

marcus freeman definitely deserves to be on that list of potential first rounders.

gstock05
07-19-2007, 09:21 AM
marcus freeman definitely deserves to be on that list of potential first rounders.

Marcus Freeman isn't good enough in run support to be a 1st rounder. Thats just my opinion. He's a GREAT coverage backer, but needs to work on getting off blocks and tackling.

OhioState
07-19-2007, 12:26 PM
Marcus Freeman isn't good enough in run support to be a 1st rounder. Thats just my opinion. He's a GREAT coverage backer, but needs to work on getting off blocks and tackling.

i was just saying that if he was going to include Larry Grant, who has proved nothing, on that list than Freeman should be on too.

gstock05
07-19-2007, 02:53 PM
i was just saying that if he was going to include Larry Grant, who has proved nothing, on that list than Freeman should be on too.

Larry Grant was the most improved player in the spring for OSU. He'll explode this year. Thats where I'm putting grant up there for.

OhioState
07-19-2007, 02:56 PM
Larry Grant was the most improved player in the spring for OSU. He'll explode this year. Thats where I'm putting grant up there for.

i don't doubt it and i am hoping for it :)

keylime_5
07-19-2007, 03:03 PM
This D will be better than 2003. 2002 and 2005 were incredible D's, I'd say on paper they have as much talent if not more than both those groups.

I don't know, 2003 was pretty stacked. Only really had 1 bad game the whole year that unit did. Best run defense in the country and we had AJ Hawk and 1st team all american Will Allen at SS, plus Chris Gamble at CB. This year the talent is extreme, but the run defense still has question marks. If we can stop the run better this year and get better safety play we will have a dominating unit that will let us contend for the NC.

HoopsDemon12
07-19-2007, 04:39 PM
dont know the point of comparing opposing defenses, but i'd break it down like:

D-Line: LSU
Linebackers: Push
Defensive Backs: OSU

USC's D is easily the best in the nation though.

It could easily be
D-Line: USC
Linebackers: USC
DB's: USC

that defense is gonna be absolutly disgusting this season

OhioState
07-19-2007, 05:13 PM
It could easily be
D-Line: USC
Linebackers: USC
DB's: USC

that defense is gonna be absolutly disgusting this season

i don't know, i don't really trust their secondary that much. Also, they could easily have the third best D line out of the three.

Sniper
07-19-2007, 05:15 PM
i don't know, i don't really trust their secondary that much. Also, they could easily have the third best D line out of the three.

You mean besides possible first rounders in Pinkard and Thomas and future first rounder Taylor Mays? Yeah, they suck :rolleyes:I love SC's d-line. Jackson, Ellis, now Griffen....veryyyyyyyyyyyyy niccccccccccccccce.

TigerBait45
07-19-2007, 11:27 PM
I used to like you TigerBait, but you brought up Jai Eugene and had to remind me of another player that slipped through Michigan's fingers. Thanks a whole bunch ;)

I couldn't help myself.

Michigan
07-20-2007, 08:05 AM
You mean besides possible first rounders in Pinkard and Thomas and future first rounder Taylor Mays? Yeah, they suck :rolleyes:I love SC's d-line. Jackson, Ellis, now Griffen....veryyyyyyyyyyyyy niccccccccccccccce.

don't forget fili moala. that guys a BEAST

StaticGator
07-20-2007, 09:27 AM
VaTech has been the best for a couple years now, and I don't see it changing. Only big loss was Aaron Rouse and he had a mediocre year.

Does anyone else find it odd Virginia Tech has fielded top defenses for the better part of a decade yet has only produced one meaningful pro on that side of the ball over that time (DeAngelo Hall)?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/VATECH

saintsfan912
07-20-2007, 10:58 AM
Any of LSUs Dline can start at any school in the nation. Easily. Dorsey is a top 10 pick, Tyson Jackson is a first rounder if he comes out. The rest are fast, atheletic and strong and all were top recruits.

The LBs dont have much when it comes to names but are all very fast and know where the ball will be. Highsmith could very well be the best LB in the conference by the end of the year, possibly the best in the country if he stays healthy. Yea, he's that damn good. That's not even counting the youngster Beckwith. Well I say youngster, younger than Ali. He is an absolute beast, hard hitting, fast, strong, smart. Always in the right place. The other LB spot is for a white boy, not as athletic as the other 2 but still fast and very smart.

The DBs are the most underrated part of this defense. The 2 corners were not tested much last year after Zenon opened the season with his tear of INTs. We lose alot in Landry but Chad Jones is a talent that is amazing. His high school clips were anyways. He is the definition of a ball hawk, hopefully that relegates to the college level. Craig Steltz is a Jack Hunt type player, smart, instinctive, somewhat fast. (Jack Hunt was our safety in the NC season) Always has his guys in the right place, just like a coach on defense should be. This is all not to mention all the highly recruited guys we took in the last 2 seasons in the secondary, ie. Jai Eugene, Phelon Jones, Delvin Breaux, Stefoin Francois, ect. All will most likely see plenty of time on the field since Miles and Pellini love to rotate players constantly.

O yea, Bo Pellini is one of the best defensive minds in the nation. He probably won't be around for too much longer when a big name program comes in and offers him a head coaching job.

constant cough
07-20-2007, 11:50 AM
LSU Dline is easily the best. Glenn Dorsey everyone knows who he is. Tyson Jackson is being spoken about as a first rounder. DT's Favorite and Alexander both jrs, I wouldn't be surprised to see in the league come the 09 draft. Then you have DE Rahim Alem formerly Al Jones who was highly ranked coming out of high school as well as sophmore DT big Al Woods 6'5", 325.

I would put LSU's D line up against USC and OSU anyday and twice on Saturdays.

LSU's linebackers are underrated. OLB Ali Highsmith is a senior with a couple years starting not real tall but is fast knows how to tackle and has good instincts I'd say he's a first day pick. JR MLB Darry Beckwith has great measurables and Bo Pelni speaks very highly of him. I think he'll be a first rounder in 09 if he doesn't come out this year. The combo of Senior Luke Sanders and sophomre Jacob Cutrera add quality starting depth.

LSU's Db's are a good bunch. Senior conerbacks Johnathn Zenon and Chevis Jackson are the returning starters and are both SEC seasoned already, both are looking to play their way up in the draft. Senior Saftey Craig Stelz has been backing up LaRon Landry and Jessie Dainles his whole career but has seen plenty of playing time in doing so as eveident by his 4ints last season. The other saftey position will be filled by Curtis Taylor with Danny McCray and possibly someone else coming in for back up support in nickle situations.

Factor in this is now the LSU Defenses 3rd season under coordinator Bo Pelini a defense that has finished top 5 in the nation both previous years.

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2007/0101/ncf_w_dorsey_195.jpg

elway777
07-20-2007, 12:03 PM
USC's D is easily better than OSU's. LSU is a different story.

keylime_5
07-20-2007, 01:54 PM
No one's D is "easily" better than OSU's. No one in college football anyway. The only conceivable weakness might be the DTs, and they were both 5 star and 4 star recruits though inexperienced and kinda small. I think their LBs, DEs, and DBs will match up with any in the country.

saintsfan912
07-20-2007, 02:20 PM
No one's D is "easily" better than OSU's. No one in college football anyway. The only conceivable weakness might be the DTs, and they were both 5 star and 4 star recruits though inexperienced and kinda small. I think their LBs, DEs, and DBs will match up with any in the country.

Dude OSUs DEs have no shot against LSU or USCs DEs. Not really that close either. LBs, yea maybe. Dont know much about the secondary though.

TigerBait45
07-20-2007, 02:27 PM
To be honest I don't know enough about OSU's defense to make a fair judgement, I just know how loaded LSU's defense will be.

Sniper
07-20-2007, 03:08 PM
No one's D is "easily" better than OSU's except for USC and LSU.

I agree ;)

keylime_5
07-20-2007, 05:12 PM
Dude OSUs DEs have no shot against LSU or USCs DEs. Not really that close either. LBs, yea maybe. Dont know much about the secondary though.

You mean future first round picks Vernon Gholston and Robert Rose, plus Lawrence Wilson who is also in the 1st/2nd round discussion (hasn't played enough to determine)....gimme a break. Our DEs are the best thing about our defense.

elway777
07-20-2007, 05:28 PM
You mean future first round picks Vernon Gholston and Robert Rose, plus Lawrence Wilson who is also in the 1st/2nd round discussion (hasn't played enough to determine)....gimme a break. Our DEs are the best thing about our defense.

I'll take Lawrence Jackson,Everson Griffen and Kyle Moore any day over Rose and Gholston.

keylime_5
07-20-2007, 07:38 PM
You won't be saying that in five years when Gholston and Rose are making the pro bowl every year. I think Griffen is the only one of SC's 3 ends who has as much potential as those 2. Robert Rose is a monster....6-5/270 and incredibly strong for a rush end, the next Mike Strahan. Every time he's in the game he is in the backfield.

elway777
07-20-2007, 11:38 PM
Saying Rose is the next what ever is plain homerism. The guy hasn't played a season yet. It's just like your Tedd Ginn being better then D-Jack theory that everybody laughed at. Plus without proven DT's what does this say about your whole D-line? Maybe it's talented, but talent doesn't make up for lack of experience. SC proved that this year.

TomatoVSC
07-21-2007, 07:19 AM
Virginia Tech.... 2x number one defense in the nation doesn't get much consideration? We're returning 8 defensive starters...and all of them are studs.

To the guy who mentioned our lack of NFL talent...it's amazing. We don't have the best recruiting(teams like UVA and NC State constantly out-recruit us), but our coaching is incredible. We take 2-star talent and make them play like 4-star studs.

Iamcanadian
07-21-2007, 07:25 AM
I know that LSU has a great set of players on D this year and that they play in the SEC or whatever but i wanna see you guys compare these two units. I really only see them having the advantage at the DT spot and want to know what you guys think


All College National Champions have one thing in common, an experienced QB with some real skills. Ohio St will lose a game or 2 before their QB settles down and becomes the player he can be. 2 loses is what an inexperienced QB will deliver no matter how talented he will become and 2 losses won't even get you to the NC game. Ohio St will be a very good team overall but they will still lose at least 2 games next season due to QB errors at crucial times.

draftguru151
07-21-2007, 08:37 AM
No one's D is "easily" better than OSU's. No one in college football anyway. The only conceivable weakness might be the DTs, and they were both 5 star and 4 star recruits though inexperienced and kinda small. I think their LBs, DEs, and DBs will match up with any in the country.

But OSU's LBers are clearly better than LSUs and their DBs easily if they stay healthy? Please. Lawrence Jackson and Ellis are both better than anyone on your DL and Fili and Moore are better than all but Gholston. That's easily better. LSU's DL is also easily better. USCs LBs are easily better. USCs DBs are easily better than OSUs. Guess what, USCs defense is easily better than OSUs. LSU and OSU are pretty equal in LB and DB but their DL still dominates OSUs. Man your homerism never ends.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 09:24 AM
I don't think you can really compare guys like Moala and Moore to 3 players who haven't started yet. Lawrence Wilson is looking like he could be the best of all our defensive linemen now that he is not splitting time with Jay Richardson (who is now a Raider). Doug Worthington was a 5 star recruit who is now the starting LDT at 6-7/295 or so. The line other than Gholston is unproven, it is unfair to say that ___ is easily better than them therefore. I said that the DEs, LBs, and DBs could match up with anyone's in the country and they definitely could. Never said those units were definitely the best in the country, READ.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 09:26 AM
All College National Champions have one thing in common, an experienced QB with some real skills. Ohio St will lose a game or 2 before their QB settles down and becomes the player he can be. 2 loses is what an inexperienced QB will deliver no matter how talented he will become and 2 losses won't even get you to the NC game. Ohio St will be a very good team overall but they will still lose at least 2 games next season due to QB errors at crucial times.


Looking at the schedule, the only game I see us as a threat to lose is @Purdue in the first 8 games. By the Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan games Boeckman will be settled in and Chris Wells will probably get about 30 carries in all those games anyways, and the only thing preventing Beanie from 200 a game in those first 8 is probably the game being a major blowout early. BTW, I think Craig Krenzel went into 2002 with only 2 games of starting experience.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 09:29 AM
Saying Rose is the next what ever is plain homerism. The guy hasn't played a season yet. It's just like your Tedd Ginn being better then D-Jack theory that everybody laughed at. Plus without proven DT's what does this say about your whole D-line? Maybe it's talented, but talent doesn't make up for lack of experience. SC proved that this year.

Throw out Griffen and Rose then since both are unproven. Gholston might not be as high of a draftpick as Jackson, but he might since he's a DE/OLB tweener like K.Wimbley and D.Ware. Jackson didn't do that much the first half of last year and only ended up with 5 sacks. Gholston had 9 last year. I say the Gholston/Jackson comparison is really a push. At the other end L.Wilson hasn't played as much as Moore, but Wilson has more pass rush for a base end, and I don't see how after this year anyone could say they'd take Moore over Wilson. Barring Griffen or Rose having big years in rotation, OSU ends are better.

OhioState
07-21-2007, 12:31 PM
Looking at the schedule, the only game I see us as a threat to lose is @Purdue in the first 8 games. By the Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan games Boeckman will be settled in and Chris Wells will probably get about 30 carries in all those games anyways, and the only thing preventing Beanie from 200 a game in those first 8 is probably the game being a major blowout early. BTW, I think Craig Krenzel went into 2002 with only 2 games of starting experience.

exactly, Boeckman will have settlled down before we even see a decent team, i really think that he will be a pretty decent game manager but the time we face PSU

Sniper
07-21-2007, 01:27 PM
Looking at the schedule, the only game I see us as a threat to lose is @Purdue in the first 8 games. By the Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan games Boeckman will be settled in and Chris Wells will probably get about 30 carries in all those games anyways, and the only thing preventing Beanie from 200 a game in those first 8 is probably the game being a major blowout early. BTW, I think Craig Krenzel went into 2002 with only 2 games of starting experience.

200 a game? You really need to ease up on the homerism. He's Chris Wells, not Emmitt Smith. This guy gets so much love for a guy who's never started a game it's absurd. I know he's a heck of a player and I don't doubt that, but come on get realistic.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Well he'll get close to 30 carries a game and he'll average close to 6 ypc or so, which is about 180 ypg. He might not get exactly 30 carries a game, but then again some of those games he will certainly average more than 6 ypc, so that is average I'd say. Mo Clarett was that good and he didn't get near the carries that Beanie will get. I think MoC had 7 ypc against Michigan in 02. Wells is bigger faster, more durable, and stronger than Clarett.....His vision might not be what Clarett's was but we don't really know that for sure. If his vision and ability to hit the hole is was #13's was then 180-200 ypg in those first 8 is VERY possible. (Look at the schedule, it's not the stretch you might think). Don't undersell Wells' talent, he's in the same class talentwise that Clarett and Peterson were.

Sniper
07-21-2007, 02:42 PM
Well he'll get close to 30 carries a game and he'll average close to 6 ypc or so, which is about 180 ypg. He might not get exactly 30 carries a game, but then again some of those games he will certainly average more than 6 ypc, so that is average I'd say. Mo Clarett was that good and he didn't get near the carries that Beanie will get. I think MoC had 7 ypc against Michigan in 02. Wells is bigger faster, more durable, and stronger than Clarett.....His vision might not be what Clarett's was but we don't really know that for sure. If his vision and ability to hit the hole is was #13's was then 180-200 ypg in those first 8 is VERY possible. (Look at the schedule, it's not the stretch you might think). Don't undersell Wells' talent, he's in the same class talentwise that Clarett and Peterson were.

6 ypc???????????? What the **** are you smoking? Over 25-30 carries? Your love for OSU blinds reality. A LOT. MoC tore the **** out of Michigan, but I'm too lazy to look to see if he averaged over 6 ypc for the season. Actually it's not necessary because chances are he didn't.

elway777
07-21-2007, 02:44 PM
OSU's ends are not better then SC's. LJ and Kyle Moore are both 6-5 270 athletic freaks who have proven themeselves in the collegiate ranks. Everson Griffen has more potential then any man on OSU's entire roster. Manning one tackle is the best penetrating DT in the NCAA(besides Dorsey) in Sed Ellis. At the other tackle is Fili Moala who is 6-3 318, and has started for SC since his sophmore year. No need to talk about the linebackers of SC. Even if every single one of them got injured, their replacements would make up a solid group. The Secondary features 2 linebacker sized safetys with freakish ability. Taylor Mays and Kevin Ellison can cover with the best of safetys and take heads off when required. Terrell Thomas is among the best in the NCAA as far as tackling corners go, and is an accet in coverage as well. Cary Harris and Kevin Thomas are proven cornerbacks who could start at any other school in the country. Not to mention SC's D coordinator Nick Holt who brought SC from one of the worst D's in 05 to a stellar group in 06. There is no question in anyones but homer OSU fans minds that SC's D is far superior to the one OSU will be fielding in 07.

Sniper
07-21-2007, 02:46 PM
OSU's ends are not better then SC's. LJ and Kyle Moore are both 6-5 270 athletic freaks who have proven themeselves in the collegiate ranks. Everson Griffen has more potential then any man on OSU's entire roster. Manning one tackle is the best penetrating DT in the NCAA(besides Dorsey) in Sed Ellis. At the other tackle is Fili Moala who is 6-3 318, and has started for SC since his sophmore year. No need to talk about the linebackers of SC. Even if every single one of them got injured, their replacements would make up a solid group. The Secondary features 2 linebacker sized safetys with freakish ability. Taylor Mays and Kevin Ellison can cover with the best of safetys and take head off when required. Terrell Thomas is among the best in the NCAA as far as tackling corners go, and is an accet in coverage as well. Cary Harris and Kevin Thomas are proven cornerbacks who could start at any other school in the country. Not to mention SC's D coordinator Nick Holt who brought SC from one of the worst D's in 05 to a stellar group in 06. There is no question in anyones but homer OSU fans minds that SC's D is far superior to the one OSU will be fielding in 07.

I, for one, think you are correct and USC has the best all-around defense, followed closely by LSU. I think I'd put Virginia Tech ahead of Ohio State as well.

gstock05
07-21-2007, 03:20 PM
LJ and Kyle Moore are both 6-5 270 athletic freaks who have proven themeselves in the collegiate ranks.

I'm really at a loss of words to how so many people are rating Lawrence Jackson ahead of Gholston.

What does LJ have that Gholston doesnt? Honestly...

Gholston had 9 sacks and a bunch of TFL last year.
Jackson had 5 sacks, and it took him an entire half year just to get 1 sack.

Jackson is 6'5 270.
Gholston is 6'5 270.

Gholston is LOTS faster, perhaps stronger, and an overall better athlete. NOBODY can dispute that.

SC's defensive line as a whole is better than OSU's, but I dont think that any of the DE tandems between OSU, USC, and LSU can be pronounced as better than the other unit without some element of homerism. Lets wait til the season starts.

BadgerMike
07-21-2007, 05:41 PM
Which team had the overall No 1 defense in the Big Ten last year?

Sniper
07-21-2007, 05:51 PM
Which team had the overall No 1 defense in the Big Ten last year?

The same team that finished 3rd in the conference. Point of the question was? With that creampuff schedule I'd hope they'd be tops in the conference.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 07:44 PM
6 ypc???????????? What the **** are you smoking? Over 25-30 carries? Your love for OSU blinds reality. A LOT. MoC tore the **** out of Michigan, but I'm too lazy to look to see if he averaged over 6 ypc for the season. Actually it's not necessary because chances are he didn't.

MoC had 5.6 ypc, but going into the Miami game in Tempe it was over 6.0. He had a dreadful YPC in the NC, but he did have 2 TDs and stripped Sean Taylor on a redzone interception that was the play of the game. 6.0 ypc is not that hard in college, it happens all the time on teams with great backs and great lines, or at least on teams who face weak defenses like in the MAC. This isn't the pros. I think Marshawn Lynch averaged around 7 ypc the last couple years at Cal. No Pittman means 25-30 carries for Wells for sure, and he is so good at running the ball inside or out that I think he will get somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5 ypc. Look at the schedule, we play Kent State, Akron, Youngstown State, Northwestern, Minnesota, etc. It's very very realistic if you actually think about it for a change.

Sniper
07-21-2007, 07:50 PM
MoC had 5.6 ypc, but going into the Miami game in Tempe it was over 6.0. He had a dreadful YPC in the NC, but he did have 2 TDs and stripped Sean Taylor on a redzone interception that was the play of the game. 6.0 ypc is not that hard in college, it happens all the time on teams with great backs and great lines, or at least on teams who face weak defenses like in the MAC. This isn't the pros. I think Marshawn Lynch averaged around 7 ypc the last couple years at Cal. No Pittman means 25-30 carries for Wells for sure, and he is so good at running the ball inside or out that I think he will get somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5 ypc. Look at the schedule, we play Kent State, Akron, Youngstown State, Northwestern, Minnesota, etc. It's very very realistic if you actually think about it for a change.

If that happens, I'll rock a Chris Wells sig for as many days as his ypc. By that I mean, let's say he averaged 6.0 ypc, I'll go for 60 days.

BamaFalcon59
07-21-2007, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=gstock05;520587]

Just think about it as far as NFL draft picks....

[QUOTE]

That really doesn't mean everything, though. Because of size and speed, some college players are much better than NFL 1st rounders. Think Garrett Wolfe vs. Chris Henry and the like. Or the Arkansas LB Sam Olajubutu. Troy Smith, Chris Leak, etc.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 10:25 PM
So you don't think a guy like Wells who is gonna be basically the bulk of our offense this year can't possibly manage 6 ypc against an 8 game schedule of Youngstown State, Kent State, Akron, Norhtwestern, Minnesota, Michigan State, Purdue, and Washington? It's really not that much of a stretch at all, of course it will probably drop once he has to run against PSU, Wisky, Illinois, and UM. But find where I posted that he'd have 6.0 ypc for the 12 game season. I said the first 8. Do you still wanna risk having a Beanie sig now? For the season last year in a SHORT YARDAGE role mind you, he averaged 5.5 ypc. Pittman had 5.1 ypc for the year in a pass first offense, and Wells is much more talented and will get more carries against weaker teams.

Sniper
07-21-2007, 10:26 PM
So you don't think a guy like Wells who is gonna be basically the bulk of our offense this year can't possibly manage 6 ypc against an 8 game schedule of Youngstown State, Kent State, Akron, Norhtwestern, Minnesota, Michigan State, Purdue, and Washington? It's really not that much of a stretch at all, of course it will probably drop once he has to run against PSU, Wisky, Illinois, and UM. But find where I posted that he'd have 6.0 ypc for the 12 game season. I said the first 8.

I assumed you meant all 12 games.

BamaFalcon59
07-21-2007, 10:33 PM
Does anyone else find it odd Virginia Tech has fielded top defenses for the better part of a decade yet has only produced one meaningful pro on that side of the ball over that time (DeAngelo Hall)?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/VATECH

Yeah, but they are so consistently good. Noone is mentioning them but there is a very good shot they are above USC, LSU, and OSU. USC might be ahead, but I'll take VaTech. over LSU and OSU on defense.

And the trend should change...

James Anderson (06)
Darryl Tapp (06)
Aaron Rouse (07)
Xavier Adibi (08)
Vince Hall (08)
Brandon Flowers (08/09)
Victor Harris (08/09)
Chris Ellis (08)

All of the above should be day 1 picks, with all of the 08 to 09 guys having first round potential. Even Roland Minor (the nickle) and DJ Parker (FS) have day 1 potential. Kory Robertson has excellent natural ability but needs to put his mind to it. Duane Brown is pretty good. There are some good young guys too.

keylime_5
07-21-2007, 10:38 PM
Justin Hamilton looks very promising as a SS in the NFL, but right now he's kinda stuck as a backup to Sean Jones and Brodney Pool in Cleveland. I'm sure he'll be a starting Virginia Tech alum in the NFL eventually though. Most of those great defenses at VT were from coaching and having undersized/fast guys who fit the system yet weren't really great pro talents.

BamaFalcon59
07-21-2007, 10:40 PM
Virginia Tech.... 2x number one defense in the nation doesn't get much consideration? We're returning 8 defensive starters...and all of them are studs.

To the guy who mentioned our lack of NFL talent...it's amazing. We don't have the best recruiting(teams like UVA and NC State constantly out-recruit us), but our coaching is incredible. We take 2-star talent and make them play like 4-star studs.

I love that about our team. But even though our recruiting isn't stellar, there should be some high picks in the next 2 drafts.

BamaFalcon59
07-21-2007, 10:47 PM
Justin Hamilton looks very promising as a SS in the NFL, but right now he's kinda stuck as a backup to Sean Jones and Brodney Pool in Cleveland. I'm sure he'll be a starting Virginia Tech alum in the NFL eventually though. Most of those great defenses at VT were from coaching and having undersized/fast guys who fit the system yet weren't really great pro talents.

I agree. But the next year or 2 should have some good prospects.

504 to ATL
07-22-2007, 05:21 AM
The only thing I will chime in on is this:

D-Line - LSU followed by USC a very distant third OhSt

LB's - USC(hands down) followed by OhSt a close third LSU

DB's - USC a close second LSU a close third OhSt

Overall I would say USC with LSU following closely and OhSt a good third.

OhioState
07-22-2007, 10:21 AM
chris wells averaged over five yards a carry as a freshman, i think the possibilities are endless

Sniper
07-22-2007, 03:11 PM
chris wells averaged over five yards a carry as a freshman, i think the possibilities are endless

On a backup's carries. He only had 104 carries. Brandon Minor averaged 5.7 yards on 42 carries as Hart's backup. Are his possibilities endless?