PDA

View Full Version : Vick Indicted by a FED Grand Jury


flrybranch
07-17-2007, 07:40 PM
Federal Indictments are not good.

Guessing that the Commish will hand down a 4 game suspension soon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgN4FljEn21uX_rAKVFplRk5nYcB?slug=ap-vickindictment&prov=ap&type=lgns

Shiver
07-17-2007, 07:58 PM
What a travesty. That's the only way I can sum up my feelings. It's going to be hard to root for the Falcons as long as he is the team's starting QB. Here's to Brian Brohm in '08.

iloxygenil
07-17-2007, 11:34 PM
I'm with you Shiv...I was a huge supporter of his until this...I know he's not been proven guilty yet, but to be linked with this stuff...lets just hope it ends with us having him free of guilt, or us free of his contract on our salary cap...

bearfan
07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
Mike Vick Screwed you over!
Mike Vick go to hell!
Go to hell, go to hell go to hell

Shiver
07-18-2007, 12:49 AM
Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole is reporting that Vick is likely to be suspended according to league sources. He's broken quite a few stories, so I trust his article.

iloxygenil
07-18-2007, 01:04 AM
I'd have a hard time believing he wouldn't be...

Shiver
07-18-2007, 01:13 AM
Well ESPN is reporting he won't be until he's convicted. Then again, ESPN also reported he wouldn't be indicted two weeks ago.

thefalconer
07-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Hello Joey Harrington :(

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:51 AM
Mike Vick Screwed you over!
Mike Vick go to hell!
Go to hell, go to hell go to hell


Innocent until proven guilty?


It doesn't look good though.

LonghornsLegend
07-18-2007, 02:35 PM
i will say, this isnt good for Vick, the league, or the Falcons...


but i wanted to point out, how ESPN put him out there was very distasteful, and ive never seen anything like that...I mean he hasnt been proven guilty yet, and they graphically talked about how the dogs were killed, along with putting on a "proven witness" with his identity withheld and voice changed, to talk about how he "knew" vick was a heavyweight in the dog fighting ring and what we saw...

I thought that was really unnecessary, im pretty sure alot of these athletes have people back at home who do not like them for whatever reason, they made it and they didnt, or they have money and their broke, so i dont think it would be hard to find someone to speak about seeing mike vick even if that wasnt the case...its not like that guy was another athlete who was going to come and speak out, for all we know it was a nobody that was still mad about vicks success...and i thought it was pointless for ESPN to show something like that so soon into a case, or at all period...

I dont think they would have done the same for other athletes, and i thought it was out of place...CNN thats ok, but this is ESPN, and they basically put a lasting imprint in peoples minds about vick whether he is convicted or not

Borat
07-18-2007, 03:59 PM
On NFL live a few minutes ago, Chris Mortensen just dropped the "Goodell could give him a lifetime ban" take.

Mortensen is such a clown. There will be a suspension, but a lifetime ban isn't going to happen.

scar988
07-18-2007, 04:29 PM
Federal Indictments are not good.

Guessing that the Commish will hand down a 4 game suspension soon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgN4FljEn21uX_rAKVFplRk5nYcB?slug=ap-vickindictment&prov=ap&type=lgns

it should be indefinate and we should cut his ass.

Brent
07-18-2007, 04:43 PM
I believe that the movie 1974 movie, The Longest Yard starring Burt Reynolds, showed us that in prison former NFL players can maintain a career.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 04:44 PM
On NFL live a few minutes ago, Chris Mortensen just dropped the "Goodell could give him a lifetime ban" take.

Mortensen is such a clown. There will be a suspension, but a lifetime ban isn't going to happen.

i always thought he was pretty reliable. i doubt he will get lifetime as well but he deserves at least the same as pacman if not more.

Shiver
07-18-2007, 05:29 PM
On NFL live a few minutes ago, Chris Mortensen just dropped the "Goodell could give him a lifetime ban" take.

Mortensen is such a clown. There will be a suspension, but a lifetime ban isn't going to happen.

He said only if he is convicted, or takes a plea bargain. He was positive that Vick won't be suspended until due process is met.

One expert who was on PTI, who formally worked with the NFL, said that Vick will miss a part of the season regardless. You cannot pull a Kobe Bryant in the NFL, practice and preparation are crucial. All the more so because he is a Quarterback. He also mentioned that all NFL contracts allow for the team to void bonus money if incidents like this arrive.

LonghornsLegend
07-18-2007, 05:35 PM
im not 100% sure, but werent the allegations against ray lewis when he played in that super bowl alot worse? Im pretty sure they were along the lines of murder, and the process was finsished up before and judgement or punishment was passed out...

BamaFalcon59
07-18-2007, 05:43 PM
Take the plea bargin. Get suspended 4-8 games. 1st time offense so I hope not a whole season. Then come back and try to lead this team.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 06:28 PM
i always thought he was pretty reliable. i doubt he will get lifetime as well but he deserves at least the same as pacman if not more.


I still fail to understand this. PacMan's rap sheep is incredibly long. This is Vick's first crime.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 06:54 PM
I still fail to understand this. PacMan's rap sheep is incredibly long. This is Vick's first crime.

pacman has done many bad things but he's never been convicted let alone indicted by the feds. plus this is a very very very serious crime.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 06:55 PM
pacman has done many bad things but he's never been convicted let alone indicted by the feds. plus this is a very very very serious crime.



So is leaving a man crippled.

Shiver
07-18-2007, 06:57 PM
Take the plea bargin. Get suspended 4-8 games. 1st time offense so I hope not a whole season. Then come back and try to lead this team.

I hope he doesn't. I'd rather never see Vick associated with the Falcons again. Take our lumps with Harrington, add a franchise QB next year in the draft. Vick was a massive mistake, not only did they trade for him instead of taking MVP candidate Drew Brees, they grossly overpaid for him. The only QB who deserves that kind of money is once in a generation players like Peyton Manning.

You might as well take rectify the issue now, rather than delay the inevitable.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:01 PM
I hope he doesn't. I'd rather never see Vick associated with the Falcons again. Take our lumps with Harrington, add a franchise QB next year in the draft. Vick was a massive mistake, not only did they trade for him instead of taking MVP candidate Drew Brees, they grossly overpaid for him. The only QB who deserves that kind of money is once in a generation players like Peyton Manning.

You might as well take rectify the issue now, rather than delay the inevitable.


I suppose I'm the last one left then.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:04 PM
So is leaving a man crippled.

like i said the feds have indicted vick on the dog charges. pacman wasnt indicted on that and he still got a year long, so vick should get at least the same thing unless goodell cowers out.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:11 PM
like i said the feds have indicted vick on the dog charges. pacman wasnt indicted on that and he still got a year long, so vick should get at least the same thing unless goodell cowers out.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacman_Jones#Legal_troubles



10 times. Enough said.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacman_Jones#Legal_troubles



10 times. Enough said.

this isnt like a DUI or punching someone out at a nightclub so roger goodell shouldnt let this slide just because its first offense. year long, nothing less.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:20 PM
this isnt like a DUI or punching someone out at a nightclub so roger goodell shouldnt let this slide just because its first offense. year long, nothing less.



A DUI is greatly putting other human lives at risk. That's very serious. edit

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:30 PM
A DUI is greatly putting other human lives at risk. edit

A dui does greatly put others at risk. and if i remember correctly jared allen has two dui's and he got only two games. Im saying vick knowingly and willingly killed numbers of dogs by torture as well as many other illegal dog fighting instances. and since the feds are usually pretty sure about someones guilt when they indict someone i think its pretty safe to assume he did these things so he should be suspended for this year.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:31 PM
A dui does greatly put others at risk. and if i remember correctly jared allen has two dui's and he got only two games. Im saying vick knowingly and willingly killed numbers of dogs by torture as well as many other illegal dog fighting instances. and since the feds are usually pretty sure about someones guilt when they indict someone i think its pretty safe to assume he did these things so he should be suspended for this year.


The fact still remains. First offense, not an convicted man yet.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:40 PM
youre being a homer when looking at this. you need to look at this from an unbiased perspective. this is a situation where first offense doesnt matter, and the facts that he has been indicted by the feds means that he is as good as guilty.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:42 PM
youre being a homer when looking at this. you need to look at this from an unbiased perspective. this is a situation where first offense doesnt matter, and the facts that he has been indicted by the feds means that he is as good as guilty.


90% of the time you are right. The 10% who are found innocent strongly disagree. Does Goddell really want to open up a can of worms here? If he suspends every first time offender who looks like they are guilty, he will be in a world of trouble.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:46 PM
90% of the time you are right. The 10% who are found innocent strongly disagree. Does Goddell really want to open up a can of worms here? If he suspends every first time offender who looks like they are guilty, he will be in a world of trouble.

Im pretty sure the feds know that mike vick is pretty famous therefore they know this case will be heavily scrutinized by the media. Im pretty sure they did their homework on this one and unless they mess up the evidence vick is as good as done. At least you guys could go for a real QB like brohm next year that might actually lead you guys to the superbowl.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:52 PM
Im pretty sure the feds know that mike vick is pretty famous therefore they know this case will be heavily scrutinized by the media. Im pretty sure they did their homework on this one and unless they mess up the evidence vick is as good as done. At least you guys could go for a real QB like brohm next year that might actually lead you guys to the superbowl.


OJ was as good as done. So were Kobe and Ray Lewis. All were guarenteed to be convicted by the unknowing fans. And about the shot at Vick's QB play. Please stop, you have no idea if you think a guy who sits in the pocket is the only way to get to a Superbowl.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 07:54 PM
OJ was as good as done. So were Kobe and Ray Lewis. All were guarenteed to be convicted by the unknowing fans. And about the shot at Vick's QB play. Please stop, you have no idea if you think a guy who sits in the pocket is the only way to get to a Superbowl.

like i said screwed up evidence can ruin a case. and my shot at vick never said anything about his scrambling ability. face it, he's the most overrated player in the nfl.

And youre naive if you think OJ is actually innocent.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 07:57 PM
like i said screwed up evidence can ruin a case. and my shot at vick never said anything about his scrambling ability. face it, he's the most overrated player in the nfl.

And youre naive if you think OJ is actually innocent.


Have you not looked at this very own boards QB ratings? People were putting the likes of Favre and Romo ahead of him. He isn't overrated. Throw out the OJ case all together since it's so contriversal. Kobe and Ray were in for much worse things than Vick is. They got off, and most people think nothing less of them.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Have you not looked at this very own boards QB ratings? People were putting the likes of Favre and Romo ahead of him. He isn't overrated. Throw out the OJ case all together since it's so contriversal. Kobe and Ray were in for much worse things than Vick is. They got off, and most people think nothing less of them.

Im gonna get of the vick as a QB thing cause its off topic to this thread, but to respond to your last statement, yes, people do think much less of ray lewis and kobe bryant. do you know how many sponsers they lost?

Shiver
07-18-2007, 08:50 PM
I suppose I'm the last one left then.

I think so.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 08:51 PM
Im gonna get of the vick as a QB thing cause its off topic to this thread, but to respond to your last statement, yes, people do think much less of ray lewis and kobe bryant. do you know how many sponsers they lost?


When people talk how often do they bring up their murder and rape cases? Barely at all. It's really been faded due to the fact they were found innocent, and have had success since.

Cashmoney
07-18-2007, 08:57 PM
When people talk how often do they bring up their murder and rape cases? Barely at all. It's really been faded due to the fact they were found innocent, and have had success since.

well maybe one day we'll be able to talk about vick the same way, but i highly doubt it.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-18-2007, 09:05 PM
I think so.


I guess I'll keep the hope so if this goes in a complete 180, all of us aren't made out to look like fools.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-19-2007, 08:02 AM
I was just thinking this over, and realistically, if the organization still wants Vick, we can keep him.

If Vick is guilty, do you really think he is going to give up his football career, and 100 million dollar deal for a couple of dog fighters? No way. He'd take a plea bargain, and start naming names. He'd probaly end up with a fine and probation. That would probaly get him suspended for 4-8 games, considering it's a first offense. Or on the otherhand, he is innocent, and we move on. But I just read an article where Goddell is going to let this legal situation play out before he suspends him. So realistically, if we still want Vick, we should be able to keep him.

LonghornsLegend
07-19-2007, 11:41 AM
I dont see why its any reason to jump the gun and go after a new qb, and push your super bowl aspirations back 4-5 years...Vick might miss half this season, maybe 4 games if innocent, but when he does come back what do you do then? do you try to trade him which is gonna kill your cap the next two years, and obviously if vick plays any this year your pick wouldnt be as high as if harrington played all year long...

Shiver
07-19-2007, 02:46 PM
I dont see why its any reason to jump the gun and go after a new qb, and push your super bowl aspirations back 4-5 years...Vick might miss half this season, maybe 4 games if innocent, but when he does come back what do you do then? do you try to trade him which is gonna kill your cap the next two years, and obviously if vick plays any this year your pick wouldnt be as high as if harrington played all year long...

It isn't as if the Falcons have super bowl aspirations now, anyway. They have a young nucleus, with a new coaching staff, that by all accounts the team is in a retooling stage. The conviction rate for Federal indictments is 95%. There odds are significantly against Michael Vick. Even if he is in the minority of those who are found innocent, his image is damaged significantly. Finally: Michael Vick was never as good as his contract was worth. He, quite frankly, isn't worth this kind of money and headache. If the team has a shot at a franchise QB, like a Brian Brohm, then by all means they have to take him.

iloxygenil
07-19-2007, 03:02 PM
if we get a shot at Brohm we'll take it...that's all there is to it.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-19-2007, 03:30 PM
if we get a shot at Brohm we'll take it...that's all there is to it.



The thing is, I personally think we have to be top 3 to get him. With Vick not fully invested, or even with Harrington, I don't think this is a 3-12 team.

JDB7821
07-19-2007, 03:52 PM
The thing is, I personally think we have to be top 3 to get him. With Vick not fully invested, or even with Harrington, I don't think this is a 3-12 team.

No, we don't. We have just as much ammo next year as we did this year and we could have moved up for Calvin. Add in the fact that Kerney will get us a high comp. pick and we should be good. Trading away draft picks won't kill this team, we're already tremendously young at a bunch of spots:

CB, CB, FS, SLB, WLB, MLB depth, DE, DT depth, WR, G, HB, and FB. We don't have a pressing need to add more youth. We do, however, have a pressing need to get a leader at QB.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-19-2007, 04:42 PM
No, we don't. We have just as much ammo next year as we did this year and we could have moved up for Calvin. Add in the fact that Kerney will get us a high comp. pick and we should be good. Trading away draft picks won't kill this team, we're already tremendously young at a bunch of spots:

CB, CB, FS, SLB, WLB, MLB depth, DE, DT depth, WR, G, HB, and FB. We don't have a pressing need to add more youth. We do, however, have a pressing need to get a leader at QB.



Trading a lot of draft picks to move up and get someone, hasn't been exactly kind in the past.

BamaFalcon59
07-19-2007, 05:52 PM
Personally, I don't like any of next years QBs. But the Petrino connection with Brohm raises his stock with us I would guess.

iloxygenil
07-19-2007, 11:43 PM
I'd love to have Brohm, he's not a once in a lifetime guy, but he could come in this system and dominate very quickly

NGSeiler
07-20-2007, 12:17 AM
If Vick is guilty, do you really think he is going to give up his football career, and 100 million dollar deal for a couple of dog fighters? No way. He'd take a plea bargain, and start naming names. He'd probaly end up with a fine and probation.

Come on now. Do you really believe the feds have any interest in allowing such a high profile case to be resolved with a plea deal and no prison time? Really?

iloxygenil
07-20-2007, 12:29 AM
I think he's a goner if he's convicted. I think he'll be made an example of, and while I think it's STUPID to fight dogs, I think it's even more stupid that taking human lives is even less penalized, PETA is out of control...lets worry about getting human rights where they belong before we worry about who killed the wrong kinda bird in their backyard with a pellet gun.

I'm not going to defend him if he was fighting dogs, but I still hate animal rights activists, they're animals, I understand people love them, and we shouldn't mistreat them because we were given stewardship over them, but give me a break.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-20-2007, 05:13 AM
Come on now. Do you really believe the feds have any interest in allowing such a high profile case to be resolved with a plea deal and no prison time? Really?



Now that I think about it, probaly not. If they got the opportunity to, and Vick could put away a bunch of people, I'd hope they'd be smart enough to.

Shiver
07-20-2007, 11:29 AM
The Federal Government will get the other three guys to implicate Vick, not the other way around. If Martha Stewart cannot even get off for merely lying, Vick doesn't stand a chance. They have a 95% conviction rate, and they have a big profile celebrity in the cross hairs. He is doomed and the State hasn't even charged him yet. It's best to realize that he is going down and move on.

falconsrule
07-20-2007, 11:30 AM
I know some people will call me a Vick hugger but I think its unfair the way the media has been making Vick guilty...

Shiver
07-20-2007, 11:39 AM
I know some people will call me a Vick hugger but I think its unfair the way the media has been making Vick guilty...

It's not the media, it's common sense.

falconsrule
07-21-2007, 11:32 AM
It's not the media, it's common sense.

How is it common sense when they dont have any evidence that he was involved in dog fighting

Shiver
07-23-2007, 11:06 AM
How is it common sense when they dont have any evidence that he was involved in dog fighting

The Federal Government only indicts when it has what is considered an 'open and shut case.' They have the evidence that, statistically speaking, will lead to a conviction of Michael Vick. The odds are weighted against him. So much so I don't even hold out hope that he will get off, it's just too improbable.

trkaline
07-29-2007, 12:50 AM
Day 136 of The Michael Vick Trial...Closing Statements...

Ladies and gentleman of the Jury...I have some questions to ask you...do you like chicken? Ok now ask yourself this, what if I was to say your not allowed to eat chicken, how would that strike you? You'd probably do it anyway wouldn't you? Yes in your own house you think your safe... Chicken is so tasty I don't care what the consequence is huh?..You would still eat chicken correct? Well my client...has a slightly different taste, he perfers canine..No no wait im not finished...he killed those dogs with the intentions of eating them...I defy you to tell me how you and my client are different....Think what if it was chicken? What if it was me?....I know you will do the right thing... I rest my case...

scar988
07-29-2007, 09:55 AM
that's so stupid... chicken is farmed... chicken is kosher... dog isn't... that's why more people eat poultry in the first place. but yeah... Vick is dunzo...
How is it common sense when they dont have any evidence that he was involved in dog fighting
cause the feds have the evidence and the feds know that he is boned when they hand down not one indictment, but append it with another 20 years worth of charges.

BamaFalcon59
07-29-2007, 12:02 PM
Yeah, I'd say we are done with Vick. Unfortuneatly that means I can't see us winning more than 6 games at best for the next 3 years. Unless Harrington steps up. If we draft a young guy they take so long to develop. Like 3 years before they hit their stride, and thats if they don't bust. Hopefully we get the money back from Vicks contract and lock up some young guys like D-Hall and Michael Boley.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 06:02 PM
bark bark
sorry for the trolling

BamaFalcon59
07-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Funny, without Vick we'll still have about as good a record as the Bucs.

Fresh
07-31-2007, 09:08 AM
yea okay, with Joey Harrington at QB.. You have a better shot at going 3-13 then the Bucs do..LMAO
Harrington couldn't do crap with Roy..what makes you think the kid will win you games? Brian Brohm welcome to Atlanta

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2007, 02:00 PM
yea okay, with Joey Harrington at QB.. You have a better shot at going 3-13 then the Bucs do..LMAO
Harrington couldn't do crap with Roy..what makes you think the kid will win you games? Brian Brohm welcome to Atlanta

Actually, the Bucs have a pretty damn good chance.

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2007, 04:56 PM
Mike's screwed. His friend backstabbed him.

Unless the OL steps up for Caddy (which it could), I don't see the Bucs doing much. And the defense is so young, it won't be at its best this year.

swagger
08-18-2007, 03:43 PM
I was just thinking this over, and realistically, if the organization still wants Vick, we can keep him.

If Vick is guilty, do you really think he is going to give up his football career, and 100 million dollar deal for a couple of dog fighters? No way. He'd take a plea bargain, and start naming names. He'd probaly end up with a fine and probation. That would probaly get him suspended for 4-8 games, considering it's a first offense. Or on the otherhand, he is innocent, and we move on. But I just read an article where Goddell is going to let this legal situation play out before he suspends him. So realistically, if we still want Vick, we should be able to keep him.

LOL. This thread was very entertaining.

D-Rod
08-20-2007, 03:02 PM
And the plea is guilty. Falcons move on without Vick.

I'll be watching Woodson and Brohm closely, but also the second tier QBs who might be available in the high 2nd round, like Ainge and maybe even Brennan.

Shiver
08-20-2007, 03:11 PM
John David Booty is another guy, maybe even Chad Henne. Either way, I think the team will be looking at a top-10 pick at best.

robert_in_bigd
08-20-2007, 05:29 PM
Good luck to Ron "dog killer" Mexico in his new home.

He will fit right in at the Federal Pen.

My only question is he a top or bottom??

D-Rod
08-21-2007, 03:50 AM
John David Booty is another guy, maybe even Chad Henne. Either way, I think the team will be looking at a top-10 pick at best.

Yup, both of those are certainly possibilities.

I was in favour of LT in the 1st, QB in the 2nd. But then I looked back at the past fifteen years of drafting, and only one 2nd round QB has turned out to be franchise quality, Drew Brees. That's a rather worrying precedent, though obviously that's all history.

Petrino may well believe that one of the very good but not perfect QBs - who would be available in the 2nd - would be a good fit for his system, and could be coached up for a year or two.

On the other hand, there are a load of very good Left Tackles available this year, and we may well be able to get a franchise calibre LT in the 2nd, and Brohm or Woodson in the 1st.

Either way, if we don't come out of the first two rounds with a QB and LT, I'm going to aggravated.

Incidentally, it seems quite possible to me, based on the past two years, that Woodson will be drafted ahead of Brohm. Unlimited potential will always be drafted ahead of proven college performance. Woodson may not have the numbers of Brohm, but he has the same huge potential as Russell. And Brohm has the negatives of "injury-prone" and "system QB" to be thrown at him. If Woodson has a good year, then I'd expect him to be a top 5 pick. If Brohm has a great year, then he should be too. But if Brohm has even just a good year, I'd expect him to have, if not a Quinn-like fall, then at least a Leinart-like slip.

Imagine getting Brohm at #10 (or possibly with a minor trade up). It's not impossible. In fact, history suggests that it may be more likely that not. Fingers crossed.

Edit: hmm, not really the appropriate place, despite responding to Shiver. Maybe i'll start a new thread for draft musings...