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Tampa 2 4 life
07-19-2007, 03:14 PM
From PFT:
Our pal Steve Duemig of 620 WDAE in Tampa reports that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have snuck quarterback Daunte Culpepper in for a visit.

On the surface, the move makes no sense, given that the Bucs currently have 17.4 quarterbacks on the roster. But, in light of the reality that coach Jon Gruden is on the hot seat and must win in 2007, any potential upgrade is welcome.

And, at his best, Culpepper is better than anything the Bucs currently have.

The question, however, is whether Culpepper can bring it like he did in Minnesota, at least in his good years in Minnesota. He wasn't healthy last year, and if his shredded knee is now fully unshredded, maybe there is reason for optimism.

In Oakland, Gruden turned a former Vikings quarterback into an MVP (Rich Gannon). Though most had assumed that Gruden's reclamation project in 2007 would be Jeff Garcia (whose fading career recovered nicely in 2006), it could be Culpepper who becomes the focal point of Gruden's quarterback tutelage.

Then again, maybe the Bucs are trying to make the Falcons nervous enough to pursue Culpepper, and thus to create even more of a distraction.

We're also hearing rumblings that the Lions might be interested in Culpepper. But given that Jon Kitna has vowed more than 10 wins and is hinting that he thinks he can throw 50 touchdown passes, why would Matt Millen want to interrupt a perfectly good case of delusion?

Chris Simms = 4th string

princefielder28
07-19-2007, 03:15 PM
what a joke

etk
07-19-2007, 03:33 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=518141&postcount=17

I called this...

Tampa 2 4 life
07-19-2007, 03:36 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=518141&postcount=17

I called this...

I was thinking it too.

So, if culpepper signs, do we cut Simms or Grads? Or just have another QB on roster?

princefielder28
07-19-2007, 03:37 PM
I was thinking it too.

So, if culpepper signs, do we cut Simms or Grads? Or just have another QB on roster?

Gruden's vote is for Simms to be gone

etk
07-19-2007, 03:42 PM
I was thinking it too.

So, if culpepper signs, do we cut Simms or Grads? Or just have another QB on roster?

We won't cut Grads, I personally guarantee it...

Cutting Chris Simms will be the ultimate last straw in my views toward Gruden. I hate him already, but if he does that I'll request a sig of his head on a silver platter.

Watchman
07-19-2007, 04:36 PM
Doesn't hurt to kick the tires.

Caddy
07-19-2007, 04:51 PM
Wow. I'm not sure what to make of Culpepper's visit. One has to wonder whether the team has any serious interest in Culpepper or whether the team is just curious. I guess it can never hurt to know who is out there in free agency though.

dbtb135
07-19-2007, 07:45 PM
We wouldn't cut Simms unless he was incapable of playing(health). Otherwise Grads would be out the door. Remember how Gruden went on and on about how much he liked Brad Johnson and Brian Griese? And they actually played WELL for him at one point. He'd cut Grads without hesitation if it came to that.

Caddy
07-20-2007, 02:09 AM
We wouldn't cut Simms unless he was incapable of playing(health). Otherwise Grads would be out the door. Remember how Gruden went on and on about how much he liked Brad Johnson and Brian Griese? And they actually played WELL for him at one point. He'd cut Grads without hesitation if it came to that.

I think you would fine that Simms would be cut. How can we afford to have 3 QB's receiving Starter money on the team when the #3 QB would be on < 1 million a season.

dbtb135
07-20-2007, 03:55 AM
I think you would fine that Simms would be cut. How can we afford to have 3 QB's receiving Starter money on the team when the #3 QB would be on < 1 million a season.

How can we afford it? How couldn't we? We'd still be under the cap no matter what for this year, so it doesn't really matter from a financial standpoint. Who or what do we sign with the savings?

Caddy
07-20-2007, 04:02 AM
How can we afford it? How couldn't we? We'd still be under the cap no matter what for this year, so it doesn't really matter from a financial standpoint. Who or what do we sign with the savings?

Teams do not and will not ever pay 3 QB's starter money to be on a roster. It is that simple. Simms is more likely to be put on the PUP list/IR, traded or cut.

ks_perfection
07-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Gruden already had 3 before Plummer retired. I see no reason why he wouldn't do that again.

Caddy
07-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Gruden already had 3 before Plummer retired. I see no reason why he wouldn't do that again.

No he did not. He had 3 QB's receiving starter money on a 80+ roster. There is no way that all 3 made the roster without some form of restructuring.

dbtb135
07-20-2007, 07:07 PM
Teams do not and will not ever pay 3 QB's starter money to be on a roster. It is that simple. Simms is more likely to be put on the PUP list/IR, traded or cut.

We've already got 2! And are we going to throw starters money at Pep too? Doubtful. Most likely he's going somewhere for a cheap 1 year contract.

dbtb135
07-20-2007, 07:09 PM
No he did not. He had 3 QB's receiving starter money on a 80+ roster. There is no way that all 3 made the roster without some form of restructuring.

Wait, so if Plummer came in and Simms was healthy, like everybody thought, AND we were under the cap, Gruden would still tinker with the players/money? Nope. Not to mention Simms and Garcia just signed their deals. Who restructures a deal 4 months after they sign it?

Caddy
07-21-2007, 02:17 AM
Do people not understand salary cap dynamics?

Teams do not, and will not have 3 QB's receiving starter quality money on a regular season roster. It just doesn't happen and saying that it will is extremely unlikely.

I never said we would throw starter money at Culpepper so where you drew that conclusion I have no idea dbtb. However, if we did intend on doing that, the probability that Garcia, Simms and Culpepper made the roster each on multi million dollar per season deals is extremely unrealistic.

I hope this is not beyond anyones comprehension.

etk
07-21-2007, 08:51 AM
Yeah, this isn't Madden...you can't just sign a bunch of starters at one position and try 'em all out. That sacrifices other positions and puts us in a hole when injuries accumulate and we don't have money to sign replacements.

dbtb135
07-21-2007, 09:04 PM
Do people not understand salary cap dynamics?

Do you understand that we'd still be well under the cap, even if we signed Pep to a small deal which is unlikely anyway?

Teams do not, and will not have 3 QB's receiving starter quality money on a regular season roster. It just doesn't happen and saying that it will is extremely unlikely.

I never said we would throw starter money at Culpepper so where you drew that conclusion I have no idea dbtb. However, if we did intend on doing that, the probability that Garcia, Simms and Culpepper made the roster each on multi million dollar per season deals is extremely unrealistic.

In addition to:

Teams do not and will not ever pay 3 QB's starter money to be on a roster.

No he did not. He had 3 QB's receiving starter money on a 80+ roster. There is no way that all 3 made the roster without some form of restructuring.

So yeah, knowing that Simms and Garcia are making "starter money" and that Plummer has retired and shown no sign of coming back, I really do wonder where I got off thinking that YOU implied we'd give Culpepper starter's money. It's a big mystery.

I hope this is not beyond anyones comprehension.

Oooh, I love condescending undertones...

Caddy
07-22-2007, 12:52 AM
So yeah, knowing that Simms and Garcia are making "starter money" and that Plummer has retired and shown no sign of coming back, I really do wonder where I got off thinking that YOU implied we'd give Culpepper starter's money. It's a big mystery.



Oooh, I love condescending undertones...

I'm afraid I need to be condescending. I never once implied that we would sign Culpepper and I am sorry if for some reason you got that impression. However, if we were to be signed and it was for starter quality money, carrying him, Garcia and Simms would be extremely unlikely which is the point I have been trying to make.

dbtb135
07-22-2007, 01:20 AM
I'm afraid I need to be condescending. I never once implied that we would sign Culpepper and I am sorry if for some reason you got that impression. However, if we were to be signed and it was for starter quality money, carrying him, Garcia and Simms would be extremely unlikely which is the point I have been trying to make.

No one needs to be condescending, we do it because it's fun. :D

And unfortunately, it seems you did imply that we could bring in Pep for "starters money" and were against it. No one here really seemed to have mentioned the finances of a possible deal until you say "How can we afford to have 3 QB's receiving Starter money on the team when the #3 QB would be on < 1 million a season." Implying that we would give him "starter money", even though you were against it. I mean, why throw that out there unless you thought we had an inclination of giving him "starter money"?

Does anyone out there like the chances that Pep here is going to get multi-year $10 mil+ deal? I mean, the DOLPHINS of all people just got rid of him for an older Trent Green coming off a big concussion.

Caddy
07-22-2007, 04:39 AM
I didn't imply anything and I'm sorry that is how you interpreted it. I've said all I had to say on the topic.

StaticGator
07-22-2007, 06:55 PM
The Bucs may have 34 quarterbacks on the roster but none of them are good enough and/or young enough that if some free agent or high draft pick QB is available and Gruden thinks he could be the man, every other QB is expendable.

etk
07-22-2007, 07:04 PM
The Bucs may have 34 quarterbacks on the roster but none of them are good enough and/or young enough that if some free agent or high draft pick QB is available and Gruden thinks he could be the man, every other QB is expendable.

If none of them provide us any long term future or success Gruden won't be around to make that decision, thank god.

Caddy
07-23-2007, 04:27 AM
If none of them provide us any long term future or success Gruden won't be around to make that decision, thank god.

Haha got to love the optimism etk. Which QB do you want to see in pewter and red next year? Or are you content with Simms?

etk
07-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Haha got to love the optimism etk. Which QB do you want to see in pewter and red next year? Or are you content with Simms?

I'd love to see Simms, but it's not happening. Any new young QB who doesn't have to deal with Gruden would be fine IMO.

Merlin
07-24-2007, 05:01 PM
What also bothers me, is that he only wants a 1 year deal?

So say we sign him for peanuts, he plays, and has a great season, where does that leave us?..............square 1!!!

Say we give him a great 1 year deal, he has a great season,........can you see where I'm going with this?

Why only 1 year,....I'll tell you why, he wants the opportunity to prove himself, so at the end of the year, he can jump ship to the highest bidder, or, hold Allen and Gruden over a barrel.

I understand the NFL is a business, but DC wants a "free ticket" to the park, and should we pursue a deal with him, we'll be the one's paying for his addmission!

ks_perfection
07-24-2007, 07:52 PM
If he plays great and becomes a UFA its alot better than not signing him at all. Afterwards he'll most likely resign here because other teams know how he stunk in Miami and will be hesitant to pay him big dollars long-term and he knows from his Miami experience that great success doesn't always follow you around.

In TB we'd know that he can perform in our system and we'd pay more than other teams because of the lack of risk. Also there aren't too many teams that go after starting QBs in the off-season.

Caddy
07-25-2007, 02:15 AM
If we were to make an offer I would like to see it as a multiple year deal with Culpepper earning 1-1.5 million per year with limited signing/roster bonuses. That way he is easily releasable if he doesn't pan out or gives us an extra year to resign him if he regains form, which is obviously unlikely.

However, this little snippet from PFT scares me a little although I'm not sure on it's reliability.


CULPEPPER NOT READY TO PLAY?
There's talk in league circles that quarterback Daunte Culpepper isn't physically ready to resume playing football, and probably won't be until the end of the 2007 season, at the earliest.
If so, anyone who signs him now would basically be squatting on his rights for 2008.
Per the source, the Jags remain in the hunt to sign him. If that's the case, however, why hasn't he already been signed? We think that he waited because he would like to join the Falcons, and at one point there was talk that the Falcons were interested. Now that it appears that the Falcons plan to take their chances with (cringe) Joey Harrington, Culpepper's best option appears to be the Jaguars.
Culpepper shredded his knee in October 2005, and hasn't been the same since. If he can ever get back to 100 percent, he could still be one of the better quarterbacks in the league.

ks_perfection
07-25-2007, 12:58 PM
I doubt its reliable as the last paragraph is blantantly wrong. Daunte was great until Moss left, than he bombed before the knee injury. His passer rating actually went up in Miami.

Caddy
07-25-2007, 04:42 PM
I doubt its reliable as the last paragraph is blantantly wrong. Daunte was great until Moss left, than he bombed before the knee injury. His passer rating actually went up in Miami.

Moving up from 72 to 77 isn't really that big of a deal. Plus he played in 3 less games in Miami than he did in Minnesota.

etk
07-25-2007, 04:49 PM
You guys can argue about all the mish-mash-bla-bla if you feel like it, but Culpepper is a major upgrade over Garcia no matter what, and replacing Garcia with him would rekindle my interest in the 2007 season rather than 08.

ks_perfection
07-25-2007, 08:32 PM
You guys can argue about all the mish-mash-bla-bla if you feel like it, but Culpepper is a major upgrade over Garcia no matter what, and replacing Garcia with him would rekindle my interest in the 2007 season rather than 08.

Daunte was amazing with Moss, bad stints after him. Garcia was great in Philly, but dreadful in Detroit and Cleveland. The key difference is that Garcia had his great season recently, Daunte's was a while ago.

Im not too high on Garcia, Philly system is great for QBs and I think its more the teams talent that caused his success. Daunte looks done, might rebound if he can recover fully but I doubt both. Garcia has the better chance of producing alot and can play right away.

etk
07-25-2007, 09:10 PM
Daunte was amazing with Moss, bad stints after him. Garcia was great in Philly, but dreadful in Detroit and Cleveland. The key difference is that Garcia had his great season recently, Daunte's was a while ago.

Im not too high on Garcia, Philly system is great for QBs and I think its more the teams talent that caused his success. Daunte looks done, might rebound if he can recover fully but I doubt both. Garcia has the better chance of producing alot and can play right away.

Daunte is an exciting talent, even without his legs that once made him a powerful, imposing force. We could really expand the offense and air it out with Daunte at the helm, and I think he would help Maurice Stovall break out big time. Your concerns are genuine and understandable, but I don't think Daunte should be thrown under the rug at this moment in his career. People have forgotten how dominant he was, specifically his MVP-caliber year where Manning was even more ridiculous. I would take him over Garcia any day, especially since he could provide stability for a few years.

Caddy
07-26-2007, 02:25 AM
Signing Daunte would definitely be a gamble. But definitely one I would be willing to take.

Fresh
07-30-2007, 07:41 PM
Culpepper did poor without Moss that one year. Well,we tend to forget those games he played in he was missing 3 starters on the offensive line. So I could imagine how much success they were getting. Once those 3 oline get back in Brad Johnson leads the Vikings to a 9-7 record. Then he goes to the Dolphins,probably the worst offensive line in the league,when it comes to talent. He did nothing there,but who did? Sign C-Pep for a vet min, let him sit a couple of months out- to get him healthy and understand the playbook.

Caddy
07-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Culpepper did poor without Moss that one year. Well,we tend to forget those games he played in he was missing 3 starters on the offensive line. So I could imagine how much success they were getting. Once those 3 oline get back in Brad Johnson leads the Vikings to a 9-7 record. Then he goes to the Dolphins,probably the worst offensive line in the league,when it comes to talent. He did nothing there,but who did? Sign C-Pep for a vet min, let him sit a couple of months out- to get him healthy and understand the playbook.

Signing Culpepper to a vet minimum contract sounds all well and good, but would Culpepper sign that sort of deal? I think not.

Fresh
07-31-2007, 09:19 AM
Signing Culpepper to a vet minimum contract sounds all well and good, but would Culpepper sign that sort of deal? I think not.
I think so- as he desperatly needs a damn job. Culpepper hasn't shown anything that he is worth more than a vet minimum. The Jaguars aren't intrested in the guy-as they recently signed Tim Couch. Raiders are still toying with him odds are he will end with the Bucs or the Raiders- and he will not get paid the money he was getting from Miami. His agent will wake up one day and it will sense it to him,that he isn't worth more than a vet min.

etk
07-31-2007, 10:23 AM
I think so- as he desperatly needs a damn job. Culpepper hasn't shown anything that he is worth more than a vet minimum. The Jaguars aren't intrested in the guy-as they recently signed Tim Couch. Raiders are still toying with him odds are he will end with the Bucs or the Raiders- and he will not get paid the money he was getting from Miami. His agent will wake up one day and it will sense it to him,that he isn't worth more than a vet min.

The fact that he was playing at MVP caliber years ago, made the Madden cover in 02, was considered the 2nd best QB in the league at one point, etc. I think that's enough to merit more than a minimum contract, even if he's past his prime. He's shown a lot more than any QB on our roster IMO. We have 2 QBs making about $5 Mill so I think he deserves a little more than a minimum contract, don't you think?

Fresh
07-31-2007, 10:40 AM
The fact that he was playing at MVP caliber years ago, made the Madden cover in 02, was considered the 2nd best QB in the league at one point, etc. I think that's enough to merit more than a minimum contract, even if he's past his prime. He's shown a lot more than any QB on our roster IMO. We have 2 QBs making about $5 Mill so I think he deserves a little more than a minimum contract, don't you think?

No, the thing is- Culpepper isn't even 100% healthy,so paying him that money would be a mistake a la simeon rice. With his knee injury and all I don't see him being as moblie as he was. Point is, he needs a job and not that many teams are intrested. So he can bicker all he wants about how much money he should be getting or he can play his contract out,and then demand for more.

Caddy
07-31-2007, 04:19 PM
No, the thing is- Culpepper isn't even 100% healthy,so paying him that money would be a mistake a la simeon rice. With his knee injury and all I don't see him being as moblie as he was. Point is, he needs a job and not that many teams are intrested. So he can bicker all he wants about how much money he should be getting or he can play his contract out,and then demand for more.

His situation is nothing like Simeon Rice's. Simeon did not come to Tampa with huge injury clouds surrounding him. He came during his prime and was paid accordingly.