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View Full Version : When will Vince Young win his first SB?


dre1614
07-22-2007, 07:12 AM
When will VY win a SB if ever?

Caddy
07-22-2007, 07:26 AM
Can't see it happening in the near future and it really isn't possible to predict how well the Titans will improve in the years to come.

Eaglez.Fan
07-22-2007, 07:57 AM
He'll never win one.

Michigan
07-22-2007, 08:00 AM
voted 2016/17

just a hunch

bearfan
07-22-2007, 09:23 AM
they need to add a lot for him to win. WR for one, lets just start there

Paul
07-22-2007, 10:39 AM
No offense but this is one of the most absurdly irrelevant questions I've heard on here. Nothing against Vince, I like the kid, but we might as well have the question "when will Brodie Croyle win a SB?". The league and team changes to much in a span of one year, that guessing for an exact time period is impossible and in end pointless.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-22-2007, 10:49 AM
Never. Jay Cutler is winning them all.

zoinks
07-22-2007, 10:56 AM
What Paul said. Pretty ridiculous.

However, I must point out the irony of an Eagles fan claiming that Vince Young will never win a Super Bowl; after all, Vince Young has already far exceeded anything Donovan McNabb did at similar stages in his career....and I'm guessing he likes McNabb's chances of winning a ring.

Eaglez.Fan
07-22-2007, 11:11 AM
Did you just compair Vince Young to Donovan McNabb???

1st of all McNabb is and always will be a better passer than Young, and secondly that "similar stages in his career" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Vince Young has ONE year of experience that means NOTHING.

Don't get me wrong, Vince is good but how good will the Titans be, should be this question.

BrownsTown
07-22-2007, 11:39 AM
Well, considering MOST QB's never end up with one, I'm gonna say never.

Brent
07-22-2007, 11:47 AM
Not ever..

PoopSandwich
07-22-2007, 11:55 AM
I put never, it's hard to make the super bowl yet win it, and Vince Young got a bit too much hype last year (like him but he wasn't as great as everyone said he was.)

I said never because it was the safe answer, if he wins one it should be in about 4 years (around there) when he has a full supporting cast.

Bobo
07-22-2007, 12:50 PM
Did you just compair Vince Young to Donovan McNabb???

1st of all McNabb is and always will be a better passer than Young, and secondly that "similar stages in his career" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Vince Young has ONE year of experience that means NOTHING.

Don't get me wrong, Vince is good but how good will the Titans be, should be this question.

Well, no homerism there for sure. You know how great McNabb's 1st year as a passer was? Arguably worse than VY's 1st year. I'd say VY is a better runner....we'll see about the passing. No, you can't get bent out of shape about that comparison at this stage.

VY does need to improve as a passer though, and he got better as the season went on last year. But the WR core could be bad this year, and he would benifit tremendously if he had a Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, TO, Steve Smith, etc.

VY has some serious play making abilities....kinda like the man he replaced, Steve McNair. Now when Steve had a very good team around him, he got close, but didn't get it. If the Titans can get another good team around their playmaking QB, it can happen. A little too hard to guess at this point though ;)

princefielder28
07-22-2007, 12:51 PM
He'll never win one as a Titan

smittyjs
07-22-2007, 01:12 PM
VYisaGod, so i will say he will win the next six superbowls...........:eek:

TouchdownUSC
07-22-2007, 01:17 PM
I think Vince Young has a better shot of winning one sooner than later. with his running style hes got to get the job done while he is young otherwise he will lose a crucial part of his game (speed) when he is older. Even McNair is slower than he used to be. speed goes before your arm does when you get old

Gribble
07-22-2007, 01:53 PM
Not in the near future. The Titans were one of the bottom 5 worst teams last year statistically and they decided to not retain Travis Henry (their best offensive player) and would have been picking in the top 10 this year if not for some crazy bounces that went their way down the stretch.

PoopSandwich
07-22-2007, 01:55 PM
Anyone remember how enamored everyone was with Micheal Vick? Give it some time, if VY ends up being a Super Bowl winning QB then good for him, but alot rides on his team, if he doesn't have a good team then he wont win anything.

Cashmoney
07-22-2007, 01:56 PM
in all truthiness, i kinda wish we'd tried to trade our entire draft to get calvin johnson. we wouldve won a super bowl within the next three years with a VY to CJ combo.

goodlookin
07-22-2007, 02:09 PM
Vince young is a winner, plain and simple ill admit hes always been one of my favorite player but he efficently plays to his strengths. If the titans management is smart and drafts well the next few years id say by 2011. on a random side note...if the jets drafted him two years ago, my pats wouldnt be so favored to own the afc east and the rest of the league

ks_perfection
07-22-2007, 02:10 PM
in all truthiness, i kinda wish we'd tried to trade our entire draft to get calvin johnson. we wouldve won a super bowl within the next three years with a VY to CJ combo.

That would have been better than the players you actually drafted. I don't know if Millen would have gone for it. He was stingy with TB and that was moving down only 2 slots, theres a huge difference between drafting 2nd and late teens.

GB12
07-22-2007, 02:11 PM
In the history of the NFL only 26 QBs have won a Super Bowl. I'm liking my chances when I say NEVER.

Cashmoney
07-22-2007, 02:26 PM
That would have been better than the players you actually drafted. I don't know if Millen would have gone for it. He was stingy with TB and that was moving down only 2 slots, theres a huge difference between drafting 2nd and late teens.

considering that reinfeldt really didnt impress me with his drafting ability, i wouldnt have minded giving up a player or two, and/or draft picks for next year.

TheChampIsHere
07-22-2007, 02:45 PM
not for a while, that Titan team isnt even close

Ravens1991
07-22-2007, 02:58 PM
I think he will get at least one.

TitanHope
07-22-2007, 03:27 PM
The Titans were one of the bottom 5 worst teams last year statistically and they decided to not retain Travis Henry (their best offensive player) and would have been picking in the top 10 this year if not for some crazy bounces that went their way down the stretch.

I don't think we were in the bottom 5 statistically. In rushing we were Top 5, but passing we were bottom 5. So that made us about middle of the pack. We had one of the worst defenses, but only statistically. We had the "Bend but not break" approach. And Travis Henry was an important cog in out offense, but he was our second most important player on offense. Vince is our most important. Who would you rather want? Kerry Collins and Travis Henry, or Vince Young and LenDale White?

Give it some time, if VY ends up being a Super Bowl winning QB then good for him, but alot rides on his team, if he doesn't have a good team then he wont win anything.

Vince does need a good team, but that can be said for any QB. But, I don't think he needs a great team to succeed. He proved this last year.


Anyway, Vince still needs to mature as a passer. He has good awareness and great running abilities. If he improves his passing abilities, and our GM does his job well, then I can see us being a serious contendor in about 5 years. After the Peyton Dynasty has left the AFC South.

Sniper
07-22-2007, 03:32 PM
Well, no homerism there for sure. You know how great McNabb's 1st year as a passer was? Arguably worse than VY's 1st year. I'd say VY is a better runner....we'll see about the passing. No, you can't get bent out of shape about that comparison at this stage.

VY does need to improve as a passer though, and he got better as the season went on last year. But the WR core could be bad this year, and he would benifit tremendously if he had a Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, TO, Steve Smith, etc.

VY has some serious play making abilities....kinda like the man he replaced, Steve McNair. Now when Steve had a very good team around him, he got close, but didn't get it. If the Titans can get another good team around their playmaking QB, it can happen. A little too hard to guess at this point though ;)

McNabb has had one of the worst wideout corps throughout his career, so don't give me that ****. I do expect Young to be very, very good but you can't use the WR thing if you're comparing McNabb to Young.

BamaFalcon59
07-22-2007, 03:40 PM
[QUOTE=TitanHope;525282]Who would you rather want? Kerry Collins and Travis Henry, or Vince Young and LenDale White?
QUOTE]

Matt Leinart and Maurice Jones Drew :).

cardsalltheway
07-22-2007, 03:44 PM
in all truthiness, i kinda wish we'd tried to trade our entire draft to get calvin johnson. we wouldve won a super bowl within the next three years with a VY to CJ combo.

I really doubt that. The team has a lot more to improve upon than just WR and it's not like CJ is guaranteed to be a pro bowl-type player within his first three years.

doingthisinsteadofwork
07-22-2007, 03:50 PM
When he will throw the ball we can debate this.Otherwise this thread is pointless.A better thread would be when will Vince throw the ball.08,09,10?

Cashmoney
07-22-2007, 04:40 PM
When he will throw the ball we can debate this.Otherwise this thread is pointless.A better thread would be when will Vince throw the ball.08,09,10?

i think 2200 yards and 12 tds is decent for a rookie.

Bobo
07-22-2007, 06:20 PM
Not in the near future. The Titans were one of the bottom 5 worst teams last year statistically and they decided to not retain Travis Henry (their best offensive player) and would have been picking in the top 10 this year if not for some crazy bounces that went their way down the stretch.

What crazy bounces? Yeah Kiwi made a big bonehead play, but there wasn't just a lot of lucky stuff going on. There were big plays, many by VY. Some by Chris Hope and Bulluck, some by Pac Man.

I think TitanHope covered the rest of the ideas of what the stats say about the Titans last year. It's like the Transformers, more than mets the eye.

Bobo
07-22-2007, 06:24 PM
McNabb has had one of the worst wideout corps throughout his career, so don't give me that ****. I do expect Young to be very, very good but you can't use the WR thing if you're comparing McNabb to Young.

Don't give you what ****? I never said he had a great WR core, or even avg. Now, look how he performed when he had a stud WR....his best year ever. VY would look a lot better with a top WR core too.

You think VY had a good WR core last year? He didn't. So I'll stick by my point, after the 1st year, no one can say it's stupid to compare the two.

yodabear
07-22-2007, 06:27 PM
He'll never win one as a Titan

My response exaxtly, and I don't see him ever getting away from them, so never, and it wouldn't be his fault at all.

TitanHope
07-22-2007, 06:50 PM
What crazy bounces? Yeah Kiwi made a big bonehead play, but there wasn't just a lot of lucky stuff going on. There were big plays, many by VY. Some by Chris Hope and Bulluck, some by Pac Man.

Thats true. They had some games that they barely won, but they also had games that they barely lost: The 1st Colts game and Ravens game come immediately to mind.

But, they never blew anyone out and had more close games than not. So that leads people who didn't watch the games to think that they got lucky.

keylime_5
07-22-2007, 06:58 PM
What they need to do in Tennessee is build a very strong defense and then get a RB who is dominant (they'll find out if LenDale is that guy soon enough). Make their team built on defense and the run game and then Vince will lead them to the super bowl. He's a winner, but without a really good defense they won't win any kind of championship. The best way for them to do this is to get a great defensive line in place like they got in Chicago, New England, San Diego, Carolina, and Jacksonville.

bigbluedefense
07-22-2007, 07:06 PM
Im slowly becoming a Vince Young fan, he has that "it" factor you look for, but come on, let the kid throw more TDs than INTs before making a thread like this. The Vince Young hype machine is starting to get annoying.

Ravens1991
07-22-2007, 07:07 PM
I agree BBD I love his "it" factor as you say, I think he will develop very good.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-22-2007, 08:34 PM
VYisaGod, so i will say he will win the next six superbowls...........:eek:

You're in denial. You know JCisAGod. And even if they were both Gods(possible), Cutler is Zeus and Vince Young is some crappy God like Hermes.

The Unseen
07-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Projecting a player's SB wins in their career is pretty pointless.

Cashmoney
07-22-2007, 08:41 PM
Projecting a player's SB wins in their career is pretty pointless.

its all speculation, which this whole site is pretty much built on since its an nfl draft website.

keylime_5
07-22-2007, 08:43 PM
Im slowly becoming a Vince Young fan, he has that "it" factor you look for, but come on, let the kid throw more TDs than INTs before making a thread like this. The Vince Young hype machine is starting to get annoying.

I've liked Young since mid-2005, even though he did beat the Buckeyes and ruined their season. He is more fun to watch than any QB since Favre during his prime. His TD/INT ratio is a bit overated, b/c if you watch him you realize that his rushing TDs are just as good if not better than his passing ones, so if he does throw 15/12 in year and rushes for 8 more it's a little different than if he didn't have those rushing scores. And unlike Mike Vick, Young can actually throw a frozen rope that has some accuracy to it instead of the pass landing near the receiver's feet or being 5 yards behind.

HoopsDemon12
07-22-2007, 08:48 PM
He'll never win one.

i just think he is too much of a winner not to win one... it may not be with the titans... he may leave in the free agency and go to a team that needs a playmaker... and he has a shot.. but on this team... not for ahwile

The Unseen
07-22-2007, 08:51 PM
its all speculation, which this whole site is pretty much built on since its an nfl draft website.

But it's speculation with little basis. You can speculate about a team next season because there's something to go off of. Predicting if a team will win the Super Bowl (not just if they'll be good or not) to 10 years in the future is shooting in the dark.

VY10
07-22-2007, 09:49 PM
He can't carry the Titans like he carried the Longhorns at times while he was at Texas. If the Titans get their act together as a franchise I can see him winning one. If they continue to have bad off seasons like they had this year I do not see him ever winning one unless he changes teams - and if he chooses correctly it could be a legitimate possibility.

Bobo
07-22-2007, 10:17 PM
What they need to do in Tennessee is build a very strong defense and then get a RB who is dominant (they'll find out if LenDale is that guy soon enough). Make their team built on defense and the run game and then Vince will lead them to the super bowl. He's a winner, but without a really good defense they won't win any kind of championship. The best way for them to do this is to get a great defensive line in place like they got in Chicago, New England, San Diego, Carolina, and Jacksonville.

That's exactly how I want this team built, and how you'd think Fisher would like it. Something similar to the 99-03 teams.

PackerLegend
07-22-2007, 10:44 PM
Well only 1 QB a year wins a superbowl and 31 others dont. That means every year there is a roughly a 3% chance its your QB to win. Right now the Titans dont have enough in my eyes so im going with the 97% saying he doesnt win it this year. 10 years down the road its nothing but a guess, so im going to say never.

LonghornsLegend
07-22-2007, 10:55 PM
and would have been picking in the top 10 this year if not for some crazy bounces that went their way down the stretch.

LOL! thats the funniest thing ive read in some time...yea they just crazy bounced their way into the playoff hunt the final week of the season, not like they really won any of those games or anything


and I will add Vince does need weapons, but he doesnt need them to the extent that everyone thinks...look at the offense last year, it was horrible when collins was playing, then all of a sudden people start making plays towards the end of the year, its not just coincidence

BrownsTown
07-22-2007, 10:58 PM
LOL! thats the funniest thing ive read in some time...yea they just crazy bounced their way into the playoff hunt the final week of the season, not like they really won any of those games or anything


and I will add Vince does need weapons, but he doesnt need them to the extent that everyone thinks...look at the offense last year, it was horrible when collins was playing, then all of a sudden people start making plays towards the end of the year, its not just coincidence

It's not coincidence, but Vince Young > Kerry Collins. So obviously there's gonna be some improvement.

zoinks
07-22-2007, 11:39 PM
This thread is a perfect example of what makes Pacman Jones' stupidity so tragic.

With both VY and Pacman on the roster, the Titans had an elite playmaker on both sides of the ball. Every single time the ball was snapped, the Titans had a game-altering presence on the field.

Moreover, there was a remarkable symbiosis between the two players....each had a knack for capitalizing on momentum created by the other. Moreover, when one struggled, the other would step up in spectacular fashion.

Both VY and Pacman are incredibly gifted athletes, and playmakers of the highest order. Each is capable of almost singlehandedly turning games around, and turning L's into W's.

Having both of them on the roster essentially adds 4-6 extra wins to the schedule. This year, they took a team with 4-12 talent, and turned them into an 8-8 team. They could just as easily spell the difference between an 8-8 also ran and a first-round bye....or instead of a wildcard berth, they win the conference championship. That's what playmakers do....they make all the difference.

But thanks to the stupidity of Pacman Jones, it appears that we may never find out. Assuming the Titans continue to solidify their roster, VY and Pacman could turn this team into a legitimate Super Bowl contender within 2-3 years....possibly sooner.

But if Jones can't get his act together, it could take twice that long to build a championship-caliber roster....and it might not happen at all.

Cashmoney
07-23-2007, 12:01 AM
This thread is a perfect example of what makes Pacman Jones' stupidity so tragic.

With both VY and Pacman on the roster, the Titans had an elite playmaker on both sides of the ball. Every single time the ball was snapped, the Titans had a game-altering presence on the field.

Moreover, there was a remarkable symbiosis between the two players....each had a knack for capitalizing on momentum created by the other. Moreover, when one struggled, the other would step up in spectacular fashion.

Both VY and Pacman are incredibly gifted athletes, and playmakers of the highest order. Each is capable of almost singlehandedly turning games around, and turning L's into W's.

Having both of them on the roster essentially adds 4-6 extra wins to the schedule. This year, they took a team with 4-12 talent, and turned them into an 8-8 team. They could just as easily spell the difference between an 8-8 also ran and a first-round bye....or instead of a wildcard berth, they win the conference championship. That's what playmakers do....they make all the difference.

But thanks to the stupidity of Pacman Jones, it appears that we may never find out. Assuming the Titans continue to solidify their roster, VY and Pacman could turn this team into a legitimate Super Bowl contender within 2-3 years....possibly sooner.

But if Jones can't get his act together, it could take twice that long to build a championship-caliber roster....and it might not happen at all.

thats what my dad is always telling me, and even though i get tired of hearing it he's right. the titans just dont have any playmakers besides VY now that pac is suspended.

fenikz
07-23-2007, 12:08 AM
I voted never, if people like Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, & Warren Moon can't win one, then I'm not betting on VY making it

WMD
07-23-2007, 12:16 AM
If you put Vince Young on the Lions, we'd win a Superbowl in the next 3 Years!

LonghornsLegend
07-23-2007, 12:33 AM
at least one person thinks vince young will at least take the titans to the playoffs this year...


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10263285

*shrugs*

angelsdontkill
07-23-2007, 02:31 AM
I don't see why people are already calling Vince a "WINNER!"

He's played LESS than a full season and didn't even do that great. How can you decide he's a winner already?

zoinks
07-23-2007, 06:06 AM
I don't see why people are already calling Vince a "WINNER!"

He's played LESS than a full season and didn't even do that great. How can you decide he's a winner already?

You apparently didn't see many Titans games, and are judging him on the basis of his pedestrian passing statistics. Big mistake.

When the game is on the line, the guy makes plays. When he's on the field, the Titans usually win. W/L records rarely lie.

And in the end, winning is the only thing that matters.

Of course, it also helps that he's one of the most gifted athletes in the game, and arguably the single most exciting player in the NFL. But his greatest assett is his leadership, and the ability to make the players around him better; unfortunately, there's not a column on the stat sheet for intangibles, so everybody discounts them in favor of measurables.....and they end up missing the big picture.

Moses
07-23-2007, 08:07 AM
I don't see why people are already calling Vince a "WINNER!"

He's played LESS than a full season and didn't even do that great. How can you decide he's a winner already?

He was a winner in college and a winner in his 1st season. He has the "it" factor. Playmaker who isn't afraid to step up and take on the responsibility of winning or losing a game.

OzTitan
07-23-2007, 08:54 AM
Lets not forget Vince was a rookie QB in the NFL, either. Sometimes I think people don't fully appreciate the reality of that. It's not exactly a prerequisite associated with even effective impacts in the history of the NFL, let alone game changing impacts. He was the definition of a winner in college, and coming to the NFL on a poor team as a rookie was always going to test that to its extreme. Relative to what we've seen by rookie QB's of the past and the circumstances he was faced with, he definitely carried over this mentality successfully, but at the same time, he is human, and the NFL did get the better of him on occasions - the 1st Jags game, the final Pats game with the playoffs on the line (even if it seemed very unlikely during the game the Bengals and Broncos would lose that same day).

One thing I feel people need to remember is, this time last year, VY sitting for 2, perhaps even an unprecedented 3 years was a very possible reality in a lot of people's minds around here and even amongst the NFL expert community. He could have easily skipped this season entirely and the critics wouldn't have their precious statistics to judge over. Because he did start early, does that mean his judgment should start earlier too? The same people who were ready to give him a few years riding the bench are seemingly the same people who are whiling to jump on statistics of his rookie year, like they mean anything at all. The vast majority of great NFL QB's who played in their rookie year did quite similarly to VY statistically - some worse, some better, and most not even close to the scrambling.

Sometimes, I just feel people are terribly eager to shoot VY down. Going off some comments (not necessarily in this thread, but in general), you'd expect him to be in his 4th season. But then sometimes I get the impression VY could win a Superbowl in classic comeback fashion, and some people would criticize him for allowing the team to even get into a position of needing a comeback to begin with, so I guess I should just get used to it :)

22,895
07-23-2007, 09:19 AM
Young is a bum and there's no way he'll ever win a Super Bowl. Everybody is drinking the cool aid on this bum like everybody drank the cool aid on Vick.

Moses
07-23-2007, 09:20 AM
Young is a bum and there's no way he'll ever win a Super Bowl. Everybody is drinking the cool aid on this bum like everybody drank the cool aid on Vick.

Nice opinion. Next time try backing it up with even one piece of evidence.

mil_brew_fan
07-23-2007, 09:23 AM
Vince Young will never win a super bowl with the Titans. In a few years he may lead them to the AFC championship game or possibly even the Super Bowl, but i don't think the Titans as a whole can look forward to a Super Bowl anytime in the near future.

22,895
07-23-2007, 09:35 AM
Nice opinion. Next time try backing it up with even one piece of evidence.

4 minutes it took for a sarcastic remark. New record good job.

Ok last year the teams he played against: good teams with good defenses Chargers L,Cowboys L,Colts L W (bad Defense though),Jaguars L W the win vs Jags though he did jack the Titans Defense won that game,Ravens L, Eagles W, Giants W, Patriots L

5-6 his record was against good teams. Two of those wins are teams he won't be playing against for another 4 years. One of those wins was where his Defense won it not him.

Moses
07-23-2007, 09:40 AM
4 minutes it took for a sarcastic remark. New record good job.

Ok last year the teams he played against: good teams with good defenses Chargers L,Cowboys L,Colts L W (bad Defense though),Jaguars L W the win vs Jags though he did jack the Titans Defense won that game,Ravens L, Eagles W, Giants W, Patriots L

5-6 his record was against good teams. Two of those wins are teams he won't be playing against for another 4 years. One of those wins was where his Defense won it not him.

So he's never going to win a Super Bowl because he was 5-6 against good teams with a subpar supporting cast in his rookie season?

22,895
07-23-2007, 09:47 AM
So he's never going to win a Super Bowl because he was 5-6 against good teams with a subpar supporting cast in his rookie season?

Yep and the Titans schedule is only going to get tougher this year. Just glacing through their schedule they look like they'll be going about 7-9.

Cashmoney
07-23-2007, 09:55 AM
4 minutes it took for a sarcastic remark. New record good job.

Ok last year the teams he played against: good teams with good defenses Chargers L,Cowboys L,Colts L W (bad Defense though),Jaguars L W the win vs Jags though he did jack the Titans Defense won that game,Ravens L, Eagles W, Giants W, Patriots L

5-6 his record was against good teams. Two of those wins are teams he won't be playing against for another 4 years. One of those wins was where his Defense won it not him.

you cant count the chargers game against him cause he didnt start that one. and the ravens he did a smash up job against that D, and we wouldve won if our o-line hadnt let them block that kick so you really cant put those two on him.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:10 AM
Yep and the Titans schedule is only going to get tougher this year. Just glacing through their schedule they look like they'll be going about 7-9.

Nobody is saying Young is going to win a championship next year...

22,895
07-23-2007, 10:12 AM
Ok IDC all I'm saying is he won't this year or any other year in his Career.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:14 AM
Ok IDC all I'm saying is he won't this year or any other year in his Career.

Please save us all some time and don't post unless you're going to at least attempt to give some justification to your opinions.

22,895
07-23-2007, 10:20 AM
Please save us all some time and don't post unless you're going to at least attempt to give some justification to your opinions.

I just did 20 minutes ago. Here's more Stats he had the third worst QB Rating in the League. He had the worst Comp. % in the League.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:23 AM
I just did 20 minutes ago. Here's more Stats he had the third worst QB Rating in the League. He had the worst Comp. % in the League.

In his rookie season after leaving college a year early. Yet, he still managed to start for the Titans and post a respectable record with not much of a supporting cast, especially offensively.

22,895
07-23-2007, 10:26 AM
In his rookie season after leaving college a year early. Yet, he still managed to start for the Titans and post a respectable record with not much of a supporting cast, especially offensively.

He had a Halfback who had 1211 Rushing Yards. He had a good WR in Bennett who had 737 Yards and 16.0 Receiving Average. His Stats we're low because his QB couldn't throw the ball.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:29 AM
He had a Halfback who had 1211 Rushing Yards. He had a good WR in Bennett who had 737 Yards and 16.0 Receiving Average. His Stats we're low because his QB couldn't throw the ball.

When did the Titans turn their season around and switch from being terrible to almost making the playoffs? When Vince Young started. Is he a great passer at this point in his career? No. It's his rookie season though and his weapons are far from amazing. Bennett is a solid receiver but not a legitimate #1 in most people's eyes. Other than him, there is nobody. The Titans had a solid running game but nothing spectacular. Most of the offensive load was carried by Vince Young and he did a great job.

22,895
07-23-2007, 10:36 AM
They turned their Season around when they played the weak part of their schedule. Plus, their wins were because of Travis Henry. Sure Young had a couple of good games but it pretty much was Henry getting about 120 yards 2 or three times and a couple of 80 yard performances on limited carries.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:42 AM
They turned their Season around when they played the weak part of their schedule. Plus, their wins were because of Travis Henry. Sure Young had a couple of good games but it pretty much was Henry getting about 120 yards 2 or three times and a couple of 80 yard performances on limited carries.

The easy part of their schedule where they played 3 playoff teams (Eagles, Giants, Colts) in a row? Henry had 27 yards against the Giants and 37 against the Jaguars, not to mention only 93 against the Colts terrible run defence. He was good, but Young was the reason for the turnaround.

cardsalltheway
07-23-2007, 10:45 AM
You can be anti-Vince Young and think he'll never end being a successful quarterback in the NFL, but to think that he wasn't the biggest reason for what the Titans did last year is pure ignorance.

22,895
07-23-2007, 10:49 AM
The easy part of their schedule where they played 3 playoff teams (Eagles, Giants, Colts) in a row? Henry had 27 yards against the Giants and 37 against the Jaguars, not to mention only 93 against the Colts terrible run defence. He was good, but Young was the reason for the turnaround.

Eagles game Henry had 143 Yards. Young was 8/22.
Jags game the Titans shouldn't have won all together Young sucked it up. They only won because the Jags gave them three picks.

Moses
07-23-2007, 10:51 AM
Eagles game Henry had 143 Yards. Young was 8/22.
Jags game the Titans shouldn't have won all together Young sucked it up. They only won because the Jags gave them three picks.

The fact remains that the Titans were a terrible team until Young started. Once that happened, they turned around and almost made the playoffs. He made several clutch plays to keep them in games or win games for them throughout the season. Who in there right mind would say that Young's rookie season was a disappointment? He surpassed all expectations.

Scar
07-23-2007, 10:53 AM
Never. No offense to Vince, but the Titans are just one of those teams that have consistently demonstrated a proficiency in bungling their personnel decisions.

NIN1984
07-23-2007, 10:59 AM
I think Young will win a Super Bowl, he was just a rookie last year and he made everyone on that team better. He just simply has “it” he may not win it in the next few years but I really believe he will at some point in his career. And you have to remember almost everyone thought Young needed to stand on the sidelines for two years because he wasn’t NFL ready. Young loves to prove people wrong, and he’s gonna keep doing it.

Shiver
07-23-2007, 11:00 AM
You can be anti-Vince Young and think he'll never end being a successful quarterback in the NFL, but to think that he wasn't the biggest reason for what the Titans did last year is pure ignorance.

I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.

If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.


You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.

Bobo
07-23-2007, 06:30 PM
He had a Halfback who had 1211 Rushing Yards. He had a good WR in Bennett who had 737 Yards and 16.0 Receiving Average. His Stats we're low because his QB couldn't throw the ball.

Travis played very well, but Bennett....ugh. Bennett is a #2, and not a Reggie Wayne #2. Name another Titans WR. The Titans had one of the worst WR cores in the league last year.

I'd love to see him play with Peyton's weapons for a season.

Bobo
07-23-2007, 06:32 PM
Never. No offense to Vince, but the Titans are just one of those teams that have consistently demonstrated a proficiency in bungling their personnel decisions.

The guy who made those decisions is gone. And even he fielded a very good team for a 5 year stretch (where they had the best winning % in the league). It's not like the Titans are the Lions or Texans here.

Bobo
07-23-2007, 07:09 PM
If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.

So that's why the score was 7-3 Titans up when McNabb got hurt. He had a wonderful 46% comp % to that point, and had thrown 0 TD's and 1 INT for a 33.5 QB rating. Garcia came in and did better. And let's not forget the Eagles were a juggernaut to that point....with a record of 5-4. I'm not buying they win with McNabb.

If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.

How close did you watch the Titans last year? That was Kiwi. Anyway, they made the mistake, the Titans won...and VY had a big part to do with that.

If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.

Hey I could say, if that rookie lineman wouldn't have missed a block, we would have beat the Ravens on a last second FG. Fisher must have forgot his lucky rabbit's foot.

If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.

The Titans beat the team the Jags fielded, that's not luck. Every QB has won games where they played like crap....should we take those wins away?

You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.

He had big parts in many of the wins, not just those two. It was obvious to anyone who watched every game (and not just homers). They made a lot of big plays, they had some big time playmakers....that's not luck.

They may have a bad year. Can they replace Henry? The good news is, the line is good. Replacing Bennett is not a big task. We're already better w/o Peter Sirmon, and it looks like Lameont Thompson will finally ride the pine, or get canned all together. Losing Pac does hurt, but also our d-line almost can't be as depleted as it was last year. Kerry Collins won't start the season, so that's a plus. And yeah, the Titans have a very tough schedule, and they had one of the toughest last year too. I think things will be similar to last year.

Shiver
07-23-2007, 07:20 PM
Err, I meant Kiwanuka.

soybean
07-23-2007, 07:34 PM
I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.

If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.


You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.


shouldve, couldve, wouldve...

if marlon mcree went down after the pick instead of trying to run, the chargers go to the superbowl...

if tony romo didn't bobble the snap they beat the hawks...

if joe montana was on the texans they make the playoffs...

you can speculate all you want about what wouldve happened if this or that happened, but that's what football is, capitalizing on opportunities. Just because some luck of the cards just happen to fall in place doesn't mean you can take credit away from a player.

Shiver
07-23-2007, 07:37 PM
You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.

Moses
07-23-2007, 08:29 PM
You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.

Do you not realize that Young put them in a position to win games? He made several huge plays to keep them in games or bring them into the lead.

zoinks
07-23-2007, 09:27 PM
You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.

So you're using Vick's failure as proof that Vince is doomed to fail?

Both players are very gifted athletes and spectacular runners; both are black; both play quarterback.

Other than that, I see few if any similarities.

Young's character and leadership qualities are beyond reproach. Vick? Well.....

Young has also demonstrated an exemplary work ethic, and is completely committed to the team concept. He understands and embraces his role as a team leader, but has little regard for personal accolades.

Vick, OTOH, has openly admitted that he hasn't been as focused or worked as hard as he should have, and has allowed external distractions to get the better of him at times.

There may be certain attributes that are common to both players...but in terms of an overall comparison, I'd say Vince Young and Micheal Vick are about as similar as Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.

Bobo
07-23-2007, 09:51 PM
You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.

You're right if you're saying some blew VY's performance last year out of proportion. There were several factors to the wins last year, but you still give VY too little credit. You seem to be taking the opposite end of the spectrum just to be a contrarian? Or just because you've watched Vick not progress and think VY = Vick?

I'll be the 1st to say (wait, that's a lie, this is being said all over Titans MB's), that VY needs to improve as a passer. Many QB's do, some don't. Just from his demeanor and improvement during his 1st year, I'd say the chances are better for him improving. Now I think like any QB, he'll need help. I'm not worried about the help from the run game. Not worried about the TE's or the o-line. There's potential in some of the young wr's, but we'll just have to see there. It could end up scary, or we could end up with our next 4th round steal ala Derrick Mason, or UDFA Drew Bennett.

TitanHope
07-23-2007, 10:49 PM
*Reads 22,895's posts*

There has to be some bias in this...

*Reads 22,895's signature*

"The University of Southern California..."

Hmmm...

:P

dre1614
07-24-2007, 08:07 AM
I think VY will win 1 or 2 during his career.


But also some people are really underrating Vick.

he had a fantasitc 2nd year in the league. MVP type season, also beat The Packers @ Lambeau in the playoffs, so i don't know how people can say Young is farther along then Vick was at the same spot in their career.

Also i have to throw this statistic out there

Vick's first 44 games as a starter in the NFL 30-14

Moses
07-24-2007, 08:10 AM
I think VY will win 1 or 2 during his career.


But also some people are really underrating Vick.

he had a fantasitc 2nd year in the league. MVP type season, also beat The Packers @ Lambeau in the playoffs, so i don't know how people can say Young is farther along then Vick was at the same spot in their career.

Also i have to throw this statistic out there

Vick's first 44 games as a starter in the NFL 30-14

Vick is extremely underrated by most on these boards. They just bring up random passing statistics and think that they prove he's a terrible QB.

LonghornsLegend
07-24-2007, 12:12 PM
I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.

If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.


You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.


look at how many "ifs" you just listed...i mean, come on now...do you know how many teams we could do that to in the league...I could do one for the chargers, that would have them facing the colts in the AFC champ game, and probably on to win the super bowl...I could list a bunch that would have the pats winning the super bowl, I could also "if" the broncos way into the playoffs, along with the jags, and "if" the cowboys past the seahawks...


you guys come up with the most ridiculous points sometimes...if you honestly have to come up with a list of "ifs" as to why things went the way they did, then theres no point...Im sure alot of those same "ifs" happened his senior year at UT, and during the NC game vs USC as well....


and you also have to take into account what VY does for the entire team, as far as motivation, and wanting to go out and play hard for him...you have NO idea how he affected that entire teams morale when he took over the reigns, and i remember reading the interviews from the veterans on the defense, and the O line saying they were out their playing even harder for vince, which means the defensive players as well....


first its he needs to sit for 2-3 years before he can understand the offense...then its his passing stats are horrible as if he's not a rookie qb, then its the defense who won all those games....funny how everyone cries out about how important the qb position is, but when we talk about vince young its EVERY OTHER possible scenario except his play that affected the team...did you notice the same defense wasnt showing up and making big plays early in the year when collins played? they also had the same RB back then, yet were still losing and counting down to calvin johnson....


im so tired of some of the people on here finding excuses for vince not being all he's cracked up to be, but its never going to stop...he did wonders for a team that was destined to be picking top 3 in the draft, everything he did for his team doesnt show up on that stat sheet...

LonghornsLegend
07-24-2007, 12:18 PM
You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.

NOW its bs because vick is about to go to jail? thats funny, eventually the luck runs out? your acting like they had a playoff run deep into the playoffs, or won a coin toss to get in, they didnt even make the playoffs...and i find a hard time believing they will struggle the next 8 years frankly because "their luck ran out", or if your suggesting that the titans will go nowhere, and neither will vince because of the situation with vick/atlanta his whole career is even crazier...i guess all black qb's stick together, seeing as how vick was the most recent high profile black qb, its almost a sure thing VY career ends up exactly similiar to his, start off good, levels off only to take his team nowhere....but ya they are both black, so your right their luck will run out just like atlanta and vicks, i love the logic on that one **rolls eyes**

OzTitan
07-24-2007, 08:46 PM
For all the "what ifs" the Titans had in 06 for their win column, they had just as many for the loss column.

What if Fisher and Co didn't screw up the QB position the first three weeks with Collins but started VY early? Maybe the Jets and Dolphins games (both very close despite HORRIBLE QB play) were wins. Maybe VY would have been more effective by the 2nd half of the season, which is a scary thought actually.

What if the 3rd string TE didn't blow a blocking assignment on the game winning FG attempt against the Ravens. What if Pacman didn't come off the field with a stinger the play Manning victimized Woolfolk on the game winning TD in Indy (a game they won by 1 measly point).

What if Fisher and Co went to the OL configuration (Roos-Bell-Mawae-Olson-Stewart) from week 1 instead of week 5 or whatever it was that ended up producing some of the best rushing games the NFL saw last season. Fans here and elsewhere were calling for this config before preseason let alone mid regular season - low and behold, it worked wonders.

What if Haynesworth and Pacman weren't suspended for 1 (or more in Albert's case) games? They're both hugely important players on the D.

The Titans were a very "in the moment" team last year, playing on the edge of victory and defeat quite often. The "luck" went both ways, but if anything it was arguably against them more. In any case, VY is the type of player you want at QB in those "on the edge" games, and this came through often in 06.

Oh and the "Garrard playing bad" excuse doesn't even come close to flying. Bad players play bad, it's part of football. If that were a valid excuse, so would 50% of all losses. It doesn't even register as a trivial excuse.

brat316
07-24-2007, 09:05 PM
He wont ever win The Madden Curse lives on aaaaahhhhaahaha

trkaline
07-24-2007, 09:09 PM
I don't think he'll win one either ...scramblers might get there but they have a hardtime winning...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-24-2007, 09:46 PM
For all the "what ifs" the Titans had in 06 for their win column, they had just as many for the loss column.

What if Fisher and Co didn't screw up the QB position the first three weeks with Collins but started VY early? Maybe the Jets and Dolphins games (both very close despite HORRIBLE QB play) were wins. Maybe VY would have been more effective by the 2nd half of the season, which is a scary thought actually.

What if the 3rd string TE didn't blow a blocking assignment on the game winning FG attempt against the Ravens. What if Pacman didn't come off the field with a stinger the play Manning victimized Woolfolk on the game winning TD in Indy (a game they won by 1 measly point).

What if Fisher and Co went to the OL configuration (Roos-Bell-Mawae-Olson-Stewart) from week 1 instead of week 5 or whatever it was that ended up producing some of the best rushing games the NFL saw last season. Fans here and elsewhere were calling for this config before preseason let alone mid regular season - low and behold, it worked wonders.

What if Haynesworth and Pacman weren't suspended for 1 (or more in Albert's case) games? They're both hugely important players on the D.

The Titans were a very "in the moment" team last year, playing on the edge of victory and defeat quite often. The "luck" went both ways, but if anything it was arguably against them more. In any case, VY is the type of player you want at QB in those "on the edge" games, and this came through often in 06.

Oh and the "Garrard playing bad" excuse doesn't even come close to flying. Bad players play bad, it's part of football. If that were a valid excuse, so would 50% of all losses. It doesn't even register as a trivial excuse.

True they won those games fairly, but that doesn't mean that Vince won them himself, which many people seem to give him credit for. Vince didn't win 8 games. The Titans did.

The Jaguars game: 8/15 85 yards, 70.1 rating. No turnovers, but that game was not a game where he took over and won it on his own.

Against Houston, he had a very good game, on top of running for the game winning score. He was a major factor in that one. No TDs through the air, but his yardage and percentage were excellent, and he had a good day on the ground.

In the win against Indy, he was decent, 15/25 163 2TD-2INT. Not a bad game, not a particularly good one either. I wouldn't give him credit for "winning" that one, especially since the game was won on an obscenely long FG attempt.

Philly: 8/22 101 yards, 1 TD. No turnovers, but the yardage and percentage were awful. Not a game where he deserves credit for "winning" the game. The game was a blowout, too, so its not like he threw a last minute game winning TD.

Against Washington, he didn't really do anything special. Same with the game against Houston in Tennessee.

Let me just say though: I do like Vince, I think he has a brilliant future in the league and even though I personally would have voted for Colston, Vince winning OROY was fine in my books. He had an excellent year. Even though as I demonstrated above, in many games he did not truly will the team to victory, he deserves credit for assuming a leadership role, and not throwing games away, while in fact being a leading cause in a few wins.

OzTitan
07-25-2007, 12:44 AM
He obviously didn't win them by himself, but he was a huge part of the turn around. I sincerely don't believe the Titans would have come close to 8-8 without him.

It's not always stats, it's the impact he had on the team from a leader standpoint too. In the Giants game, veterans right afterwards in post game press conferences explained how the game for them turned around the instant Vince took a cheap shot on the sidelines and got up straight away even more fired up. After that point he was a man on a mission and the whole team got behind him. He became a true leader for the Titans a few games after taking the starting role, and this is a rookie QB we're talking about. It's not even speculation, the veterans on many occasions have said the team was totally different from top to bottom when he took the reigns.

If Vince was a 5th year pro last season, it would have been a disappointing (yet still exciting) season, but he was a rookie. He did carry the team from an offensive leadership position and came up big in key parts of games. His stats are quite normal for a rookie QB but his impact was beyond normal. It takes looking beyond static web site stat sheets to understand this.

Cashmoney
07-25-2007, 01:16 AM
I guess when you think about vince youngs rookie year its not just about stats. you have to ask yourself, how many games did vince young win that collins wouldnt have, and id have to say at least 5. i doubt the titans wouldve won more than 3 games if collins had been the QB all season, and thats where his value is apparant the most.

trkaline
07-25-2007, 01:25 AM
I guess when you think about vince youngs rookie year its not just about stats. you have to ask yourself, how many games did vince young win that collins wouldnt have, and id have to say at least 5. i doubt the titans wouldve won more than 3 games if collins had been the QB all season, and thats where his value is apparant the most.

That was harsh, but sadly true I have no other evidence to dispute that because of Collin's history on the Raiders...

Cashmoney
07-25-2007, 01:28 AM
its not harsh, he was on pace to throw 32 INTs and complete fewer than fifty percent of his passes.

LonghornsLegend
07-25-2007, 02:24 AM
True they won those games fairly, but that doesn't mean that Vince won them himself, which many people seem to give him credit for. Vince didn't win 8 games. The Titans did.

The Jaguars game: 8/15 85 yards, 70.1 rating. No turnovers, but that game was not a game where he took over and won it on his own.

Against Houston, he had a very good game, on top of running for the game winning score. He was a major factor in that one. No TDs through the air, but his yardage and percentage were excellent, and he had a good day on the ground.

In the win against Indy, he was decent, 15/25 163 2TD-2INT. Not a bad game, not a particularly good one either. I wouldn't give him credit for "winning" that one, especially since the game was won on an obscenely long FG attempt.

Philly: 8/22 101 yards, 1 TD. No turnovers, but the yardage and percentage were awful. Not a game where he deserves credit for "winning" the game. The game was a blowout, too, so its not like he threw a last minute game winning TD.

Against Washington, he didn't really do anything special. Same with the game against Houston in Tennessee.

Let me just say though: I do like Vince, I think he has a brilliant future in the league and even though I personally would have voted for Colston, Vince winning OROY was fine in my books. He had an excellent year. Even though as I demonstrated above, in many games he did not truly will the team to victory, he deserves credit for assuming a leadership role, and not throwing games away, while in fact being a leading cause in a few wins.


I understand where your coming from, but at the same time why when its Vince in question its always "he didnt win those games his self", but when were talking about lets say peyton manning its a different story...

Did he win the first playoff game vs the ravens, how about the pats? or the bears? or did his defense win those games?

however you look at it, very few victories can be credited without most of it going to the qb, because they can easily find a way to lose games...if winning games, and not making mistakes was so easy as some demonstrate, then why cant anyone explain why some qb's never get it(tim couch, akili smith)...I dont think Vince has to throw for 300 yds and 4 td's to officially "win the game" for the titans...even games where qb's have great passing games and keep them in the game, alot of credit always goes to the o line, and in alot of cases the defense...Its not like Vince had a trent dilfer type of year, he made huge plays all year...

So me looking at the titans unit, which was the same team kerry collins had and couldnt win with, with the same defense...i find it hard to believe to not credit Vince with most of the turnaround and say he had majority to do with those games....

Modano
07-25-2007, 03:53 AM
first its he needs to sit for 2-3 years before he can understand the offense...then its his passing stats are horrible as if he's not a rookie qb, then its the defense who won all those games....funny how everyone cries out about how important the qb position is, but when we talk about vince young its EVERY OTHER possible scenario except his play that affected the team...did you notice the same defense wasnt showing up and making big plays early in the year when collins played? they also had the same RB back then, yet were still losing and counting down to calvin johnson....


im so tired of some of the people on here finding excuses for vince not being all he's cracked up to be, but its never going to stop...he did wonders for a team that was destined to be picking top 3 in the draft, everything he did for his team doesnt show up on that stat sheet...

You forgot to mention my favorite one: Vince Young won't be able to run the ball in the NFL.

Moses
07-25-2007, 07:54 AM
You forgot to mention my favorite one: Vince Young won't be able to run the ball in the NFL.

That one was good. However, I like the "OMG he scored 8 on his Wonderlic he's too stupid to play in the NFL!"