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View Full Version : DPOTY Debate; Bailey or Taylor?


Shiver
12-26-2006, 02:37 PM
Honestly, I want to see where everyone stands on this. This is a very interesting decision that will be made.

For Champ Bailey, he's had his best personal year, by far his best season with the Broncos. He has nine interceptions, an inordinate amount have come in the red zone to stop opposing scoring drives. It's hard to imagine a corner having a better season than this. Although the last time a Corner won the award it was Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson back to back in '93 and '94. Unlike Taylor, his team is going to make the post-season, which may have an effect.

For Jason Taylor, he too, has had a phenomenal season. He has 13.5 sacks, which is good but not great, what makes his numbers look special is the two interceptions for touchdowns and the nine forced fumbles. He has been dominant, and has single handidly won games, which is the corner stone by which defensive awards are usually won.


I believe this could be a very nice discussion. I could definitely see both sides of the discussion. Thoughts?

P-L
12-26-2006, 02:48 PM
I think Jason Taylor should win it, but I think Champ Bailey will win it.

njx9
12-26-2006, 02:56 PM
this is a tough decision. every time i think of a reason for taylor to get it, i think of a play bailey made that was equally amazing and important to his team. the fact that almost every single one of his interceptions was within the 2 yard line is ridiculous. the fact that he's shut down literally every WR he's covered and that he's been our best player in run defense on a team with some amazing linebackers is incredible.

i don't see how you could go wrong with either guy. in my opinion (and if i ran the world), they'd be one first place vote apart either way.

Ace
12-26-2006, 03:02 PM
Taylor deserves it, but Champ will likely win it cause his team is likely headed to the playoffs while we are sitting on our ass at 6-9. Either way, both are great players and teams would kill to get those two.

draftguru151
12-26-2006, 03:04 PM
Champ Bailey is amazing and the best CB in the league. What he has done this season has been amazing. But Jason Taylor has been just ridiculous this season. 4 in the league in sacks, 11 forced turnovers, 2 picks for TDs, around 60 tackles, and has been extremely consistent, getting at least one sack in 11 games this year.

12-26-2006, 03:12 PM
the loser should get on the madden cover.

Don Vito
12-26-2006, 03:15 PM
I am a Patriots fan and to see how he played against NE, there is no way Taylor should not win it. In every Dolphins game I've seen this season, you hear his name called out by the announcers on almost every play because he's always making plays. Other teams have to change there game plans around him.

I haven't seen much of Bailey the second half of the season but the was dominant the 1st half. Taylor deserves it IMO.

The Unseen
12-26-2006, 03:22 PM
I think Jason Taylor should win it, but I think Champ Bailey will win it.

Kinda how I feel, although I think JT has a good chance anyways.

Denver Bronco99
12-26-2006, 03:37 PM
I think champ would be a great choice and HE IS AVOIDED.....and still has 9 ints and 20+ pd.....80+ tackles....he has already had the most redzone INTS in a year with 6 all comming in the 20 or less.....he has played against some of the best in thegame.....Moss,Johnson,Harrison,Holt and he had locked them all down

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-26-2006, 04:12 PM
Julius Peppers :wink:


But I dunno, both those guys are deserving. Any chance at a co-DPOY this year?

Shiver
12-26-2006, 04:35 PM
The only Bailey votes are me and the three Broncos fans. :lol:

jetsfan3
12-26-2006, 04:37 PM
The only Bailey votes are me and the three Broncos fans. :lol:

I voted Bailey.

How many picks does he have inside the one yard line? I remember them showing it but I wasn't really focusing.

njx9
12-26-2006, 04:38 PM
The only Bailey votes are me and the three Broncos fans. :lol:

i haven't voted yet

ninerfan
12-26-2006, 06:09 PM
Champ

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-26-2006, 06:11 PM
The only Bailey votes are me and the three Broncos fans. :lol:

i haven't voted yet

Lol me neither.

remix 6
12-26-2006, 06:14 PM
81 tackles 9 ints..i would vote Bailey..hes shut down his half COMPLETLY. i saw Moss beat him once but out of like 6-7 Bronco games i've watched..Champ has been amazing

dRaFtDoRk
12-26-2006, 06:19 PM
I think its closer than what people think between the two. Champ Bailey leads the league in interceptions and is tied for the lead in passes deflected. He is really has solidified himself as the best corner in the game and then some. The thing I really like about Champ Bailey is that he has taught a lot of things to other corners like Darrent Williams and Dominique Foxworth and Karl Paymah. If you watch a Bronco game or two, you can tell that Darrent Williams is learning a lot of things from Champ.

Jason Taylor, although 32 is having a career year. He has 13.5 sacks(4th in the league), 9 forced fumbles(1st in league), 2 INT's, 2 defensive TD's(tied for lead). He is the most versatile defensive lineman this year and has really stepped up for the Dolphins.


Jason Taylor wins it.

draftguru151
12-26-2006, 06:29 PM
I think its closer than what people think between the two. Champ Bailey leads the league in interceptions and is tied for the lead in passes deflected. He is really has solidified himself as the best corner in the game and then some. The thing I really like about Champ Bailey is that he has taught a lot of things to other corners like Darrent Williams and Dominique Foxworth and Karl Paymah. If you watch a Bronco game or two, you can tell that Darrent Williams is learning a lot of things from Champ.

Jason Taylor, although 32 is having a career year. He has 13.5 sacks(4th in the league), 9 forced fumbles(1st in league), 2 INT's, 2 defensive TD's(tied for lead). He is the most versatile defensive lineman this year and has really stepped up for the Dolphins.


Jason Taylor wins it.

:? Like what? Darrent Williams is awful.

njx9
12-26-2006, 07:13 PM
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.

bearsfan_51
12-26-2006, 07:19 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.

Ace
12-26-2006, 07:52 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.


Sadly, the voters will likely do just that and vote for someone who is in the playoffs and doesn't deserve it as much as JT does.

elway777
12-26-2006, 07:53 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.


Sadly, the voters will likely do just that and vote for someone who is in the playoffs and doesn't deserve it as much as JT does.

says the dolphins fan... :roll:

Ace
12-26-2006, 08:18 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.


Sadly, the voters will likely do just that and vote for someone who is in the playoffs and doesn't deserve it as much as JT does.

says the dolphins fan... :roll:

I can play that game too. I can do the same because you think Champ deserves it more.

Say what you want, but JT deserves it more. Just like how you think Champ deserves it more. Both are great players, but every Phins game I saw JT was always making plays and he did it at a consistant basis.

elway777
12-26-2006, 08:21 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.


Sadly, the voters will likely do just that and vote for someone who is in the playoffs and doesn't deserve it as much as JT does.

says the dolphins fan... :roll:

I can play that game too. I can do the same because you think Champ deserves it more.

Say what you want, but JT deserves it more. Just like how you think Champ deserves it more. Both are great players, but every Phins game I saw JT was always making plays and he did it at a consistant basis.

Im pretty much equal to both champ and jason,which is why I didn't vote.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-26-2006, 08:23 PM
The Dolphins are going to finish 6-10, that's reason enough for me to want to give the award to someone else, former Zip or not.


Sadly, the voters will likely do just that and vote for someone who is in the playoffs and doesn't deserve it as much as JT does.

says the dolphins fan... :roll:

I can play that game too. I can do the same because you think Champ deserves it more.

Say what you want, but JT deserves it more. Just like how you think Champ deserves it more. Both are great players, but every Phins game I saw JT was always making plays and he did it at a consistant basis.

Same with Champ though. I think they're both EQUALLY deserving, but the fact that Denver will most likely make the playoffs means he might win it. Whether he deserves it or not is debatable, as Denver is more talented than Miami, and one player on a defense can't single handedly win many games, maybe once every few years for the great ones.

draftguru151
12-26-2006, 08:28 PM
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.

You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.

Boston
12-26-2006, 08:38 PM
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.

You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.

I hate how its judged on how well the team was. It should be on how well the unit that the player plays for is. ie. Offense or Defense. Which, Miami is 3rd on Defense, with a lot of credit given to Taylor.

njx9
12-26-2006, 09:01 PM
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.

You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.

I hate how its judged on how well the team was. It should be on how well the unit that the player plays for is. ie. Offense or Defense. Which, Miami is 3rd on Defense, with a lot of credit given to Taylor.

by the same token, how can you blame bailey for the play of darrent williams, nick ferguson, john lynch and a defensive line that hasn't seen the backfield in 8 years?

i'm not arguing that for champ, but i don't think you can pick out any one individual piece. champ's play on our defense has been utterly amazing. just like taylor's has been.

in all honesty, this is one of the few times i wouldn't mind a split award.

critesy
12-28-2006, 12:54 PM
they should just be co-dpoy. simple as that, its too close.

thetedginnshow
12-28-2006, 12:59 PM
Wait. Why are people saying Champ will most likely win it? Hasn't it been between Taylor and Merriman?

But by all accounts, Champ should win it for his ability to lock down an entire side of the field, as well as helping out in run support and all that. Plus, he had an interception every five times he was thrown at. That's absolutely ridiculous. An interception every 25 times you're thrown at isn't bad. Definitely should be his.

However, since I really don't think they'll give him his due, I think it should go to Jason Taylor. He did it all this year. Just ridiculous stats, and he was a huge reason why Miami was even as good as they were.

But really, so long as Merriman doesn't win it, I don't care. Brian Dawkins could win it for that matter, but not Merriman.

CC.SD
12-28-2006, 01:18 PM
On nflnetwork some big fat pundit was saying what I had mentioned in the Jason Taylor/Merriman thread that JT was campaigning for DPOY. I think more than a couple people are picking up on that, and that Bailey will get the award. Champ's level of play is higher than anyone else's in the game right now, I hate him so much.

BlindSite
12-28-2006, 04:11 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

CC.SD
12-28-2006, 05:07 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

Denver Bronco99
12-28-2006, 06:24 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

stephenson86
12-28-2006, 07:36 PM
like all baileys ints have come in the red zone, therefore hes saved the broncos many many times and kepy their playoff hopes alive

BlindSite
12-28-2006, 07:39 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-28-2006, 07:51 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.

I dunno. A mistake at DE and nothing bad might happen. A mistake at corner, Touchdown alot of the time.

njx9
12-28-2006, 08:02 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.

QB must be a pretty easy position to play, given that the likely ROY got a 9 and a hall of famer got a 14.

Nitschke-Hawk
12-28-2006, 09:43 PM
It has to be Bailey, he gets the edge because he's going to the playoffs, clearly the best at his position, still some question about the best Defensive End. I think Taylor would get it if the Dolphins had a better record because sacks sell, but you have to ask yourself where the Broncos would be without Bailey, and the starting corners being Darrent Williams and Dominique Foxworth in that situation, it's pretty obvious. Where would the Dolphins be without Taylor? well it doesn't reallly matter unfortunately.

Whistler6
12-28-2006, 11:31 PM
Aaron Kampman*

King Rhabuf
12-29-2006, 12:32 AM
Merriman ftw 8)

12-29-2006, 12:36 AM
Aaron Kampman*

Hope you're not serious.

soybean
12-29-2006, 03:55 AM
this is a tough decision. every time i think of a reason for taylor to get it, i think of a play bailey made that was equally amazing and important to his team. the fact that almost every single one of his interceptions was within the 2 yard line is ridiculous. the fact that he's shut down literally every WR he's covered and that he's been our best player in run defense on a team with some amazing linebackers is incredible.


If you think about it though, getting an interception in the red zone theoretically should be easier than getting one in the open field. It gives the receiver less room to work with as well as taking away the deep ball.
I do however, think he should win it.

The Unseen
12-29-2006, 07:03 AM
Mistakes at CB are way more critical than at DE. And it's not just through the air. I remember when the Jaguars played the Bills, and rookie Dee Webb had to start. On a run by Willis McGahee, the WR on his side slanted inside as if it were a pass route. Webb follows him and therefore concedes run contain on the outside, McGahee bounces the run to the outside, nobody's out there, touchdown.

Finsfan79
12-29-2006, 08:26 AM
Gotta go with JT for this he single handedly destroyed the bears, pats and a few other teams.

that said I would take champ bailey on my team anyday

CC.SD
12-29-2006, 11:22 AM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-29-2006, 11:35 AM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.

I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.

CC.SD
12-29-2006, 11:43 AM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.

I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.

Okay I'll give you that. But DE isn't up there IMO. That's why you see all these amazing rookie pass rushers, while corners take forever to develop.

NYmoney
12-29-2006, 12:10 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.

I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.

Okay I'll give you that. But DE isn't up there IMO. That's why you see all these amazing rookie pass rushers, while corners take forever to develop.

exactly. look what 5th round pick mark anderson is doing in chicago, and meanwhile, there is no rookie cb making a comparable impact.

Nitschke-Hawk
12-29-2006, 02:12 PM
Aaron Kampman*

Hope you're not serious.

Why not? he's just as good if not better candidate than Merriman right now, the Chargers were 4-0 without Merriman, where would the Packers be without Kampman's sacks and huge amount of tackles? From a full time Defensive End mind you, Merriman is a linebacker by trade so you'd think he'd make a lot more tackles, but he hasn't. Kampman leads all defensive linemen in tackles for the second straight year, when you talk about the best run stopping/pass rushing linemen in football he's gotta be at the top with some other guys, and unlike other guys he has the stats to prove it in both categories. Meaning he's one of the best all around linemen in the game.

Kampman has 15.5 sacks and 83 total tackles. Of the top 5 sacks leaders, that's 26 more tackles than Julius Peppers, 27 more than Jason Taylor, 31 more than Aaron Schobel, and 29 more than Shawne Merriman who's a linebacker, the only person who has more sacks is Merriman. Merriman has .5 sacks more than Kampman right now with 16. Since Merriman's played four less games I'll break it down to per game. That's 1.45 sacks, .36 Forced Fumbles, and 4.9 tackles per game for Merriman. 1.03 sacks, .28 Forced Fumbles, and 5.53 tackles per game for Kampman.

Now keep in mind the surrounding cast Merriman has in the front seven compared to the Packers, and remember that he was suspended for steroids. Whether he did intentionally or not is another story, but everybody knows the effects from it are still there. I almost forgot, he's not even the best player on his own defense, Jamal Williams is, and I know there's people that agree with that because it was discussed recently on here.

I'm not saying Kampman should win it, but he should definitely be a candidate, and definitely a better candididate than Merriman. I've already said I think Champ should win it, what he's done is truly remarkable and involves very little luck, you throw it to him he's got his hands on it.

There's 5 candidates in my mind, and you've gotta ask yourself where the teams would be without these guys, I'll rank them in order of the effect they've had on winning and losing games, 1 the highest 5 the lowest.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Jason Taylor
3. Brian Urlacher
4. Aaron Kampman
5. Shawne Merriman oops I mean Jamal Williams :roll:

Nitschke-Hawk
12-29-2006, 02:16 PM
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.

Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.

and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE

Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.

I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.

Okay I'll give you that. But DE isn't up there IMO. That's why you see all these amazing rookie pass rushers, while corners take forever to develop.

exactly. look what 5th round pick mark anderson is doing in chicago, and meanwhile, there is no rookie cb making a comparable impact.

CB Jonathan Joseph of the Bengals has had a just as good if not better year than Mr. Unblocked Mark Anderson.

njx9
12-29-2006, 02:17 PM
^^^ fantastic post (the one defending kampman). i wouldn't have thought kampman should've even been mentioned, and while i think you've slotted him about right (4th or 5th), based on what you've got, he certainly deserves mention.

Windy
12-29-2006, 02:19 PM
Yea i had Kampman on my big fantasy team. He always put it up

snobdmat
12-30-2006, 11:41 AM
Merriman

taylor with the season hes having

Namy
12-31-2006, 01:20 AM
I haven't really seen much of JT excpet on SC, so I can't really make a definitive decision on my part. However, from watching Champ this whole year, he is worthy of a DPOY. Is he worthier over JT? I dont' really know. But under normal circumstances is he worthy? Hell yes. Not sure if he will win it tho... the 4 game losing slide the Broncos took may really hurt his chances. We'll see tho.

DChess
12-31-2006, 02:00 AM
i truely think bailey should get it, he's the best defensive player in the league, and is have the best season (i know many will argue with that one)

sodar21
12-31-2006, 02:39 AM
Jason Taylor should win it in my opinion. 9 forced fumbles. 9!?!!

draftguru151
12-31-2006, 09:10 AM
I'm bored so some head to head stats.

Tackles:
Champ- 81, Taylor-56
Sacks:
Taylor-13.5, Champ-0
Interceptions:
Champ- 9, Taylor-2
FF:
Taylor-9, Champ-0
Total turnovers:
Taylor-11, Champ-9
Pass defensed:
Champ-11, Taylor- 8
Touchdowns:
Taylor-2, Champ-0

Both are having great seasons, but looking at that is is hard to argue against Taylor. Has 2 more forced turnovers, 2 more touchdowns, almost as many PD when Taylor is a DE/OLB, then you had in 13.5 sacks for Taylor. I know it's now all about stats, but that's hard to argue against.

SuperMcGee
12-31-2006, 11:59 AM
I'm bored so some head to head stats.

Tackles:
Champ- 81, Taylor-56
Sacks:
Taylor-13.5, Champ-0
Interceptions:
Champ- 9, Taylor-2
FF:
Taylor-9, Champ-0
Total turnovers:
Taylor-11, Champ-9
Pass defensed:
Champ-11, Taylor- 8
Touchdowns:
Taylor-2, Champ-0

Both are having great seasons, but looking at that is is hard to argue against Taylor. Has 2 more forced turnovers, 2 more touchdowns, almost as many PD when Taylor is a DE/OLB, then you had in 13.5 sacks for Taylor. I know it's now all about stats, but that's hard to argue against.

I have their PD numbers as 20 for Champ and 11 for Taylor
And a forced fumble doesn't necessitate a turnover, but yeah, Taylor did his part by forcing it anyway

draftguru151
12-31-2006, 12:08 PM
NFL.com has the official stats.

SuperMcGee
12-31-2006, 12:13 PM
NFL.com has the official stats.

I'm still getting 20 for Champ

draftguru151
12-31-2006, 12:18 PM
NFL.com has the official stats.

I'm still getting 20 for Champ

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133217

2006 Denver Broncos 15 81 69.0 12 0 9 92 10.2 32 0 11

SuperMcGee
12-31-2006, 12:25 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/DB-TACKLES/2006/regular?&_3:col_1=4&_3:col_2=11

Player Team G Ints Yds LG TDs FF Rec TDs Pdef Scks SFTY Cmb Tck Solo Ast
Champ Bailey DEN 15 9 92 32 0 0 1 0 20 0 0 81 69.0 64 12


:?:

draftguru151
12-31-2006, 03:17 PM
They probably add interceptions to it.

SuperMcGee
12-31-2006, 03:26 PM
Yeah, they definitely are
Just weird to see it listed two different ways on the same site