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BamaFalcon59
07-29-2007, 09:44 PM
Anyone watch this guy a lot? I love the production and size, but haven't seen him play outside of the Wisconsin-Arkansas game, in which he didn't do too well. Wondering if he has speed/ athleticism (for his size) and vision to be a good prospect.

GB12
07-29-2007, 09:46 PM
Anyone watch this guy a lot? I love the production and size, but haven't seen him play outside of the Wisconsin-Arkansas game, in which he didn't do too well. Wondering if he has speed/ athleticism (for his size) and vision to be a good prospect.
Eh, I don't think so. He seems to fit the mold of the great Badger backs before him. He's a beast in college, but I'm not sure if he can carry his success over to the pros.

wiscbadgerfootball
07-29-2007, 09:48 PM
agreed... even being the huge UW fan that I am.. he's kinda like Ron Dayne in a way I guess

princefielder28
07-29-2007, 09:55 PM
agreed... even being the huge UW fan that I am.. he's kinda like Ron Dayne in a way I guess

Exactly, he's Ron Dayne version 2.0

BamaFalcon59
07-29-2007, 10:00 PM
Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).

princefielder28
07-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).


He'll get drafted once he's done with school but I think NFL teams will be a bit more hesitant to select him given his similarities to Dayne

Sniper
07-29-2007, 10:06 PM
He didn't do well against a couple of good teams, like Arkansas and Michigan. He's slow but I could see him being a poor man's Jamal Lewis (old school)

GB12
07-29-2007, 10:09 PM
Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).

He probably fits the 2-4th round range. I think he could go as high as late-middle of the second round.

HoopsDemon12
07-30-2007, 12:34 AM
Exactly, he's Ron Dayne version 2.0

i think he is similar to dayne in the fact he is huge... but he is numble on his feet and i think he will surprise.. i really belive he is far mosre athletic than dayne ever was

GREENSMACKS
07-30-2007, 04:21 AM
i hate player school comparisons bringing down prospects ala penn state with LJ. i really think you need to evaluate players based on production against elite comp as opposed to a beefy RB from a decade ago

Iamcanadian
07-30-2007, 08:50 AM
i hate player school comparisons bringing down prospects ala penn state with LJ. i really think you need to evaluate players based on production against elite comp as opposed to a beefy RB from a decade ago

I disagree. First, the Penn St RB theory was junk to begin with. The failure of their RB's had a lot more to do with injuries than the school they came from and pro scouts and GM's knew that. It was just unknowledgable fans who believed it. However, the Spurrier WR theory and the Tedford QB theory are sound and believe me pro scouts and GM's are very wary of the players who play those positions for those HC's. That's why Rice fell to round 2.
The reason the theory is sound in a lot of instances, is because each spring college HC's put their best freshmen in certain positions. Over the years, pro scouts and GM's come to know where college HC's put their best freshmen. The longer you are a college HC, the more obvious it becomes where you place your better players.
In Hill's case, I think the comparison to past RB's is irrelevant because Wisconsin has a new HC and nobody knows his tendancies just yet. The comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the HC. Pro scouts and GM's will judge Hill on his merrit until such time as the new Wisconsin HC shows his tendancies,
Don't get me wrong, Rice had his opportunities in the post season to prove he was worth a 1st round pick and not just another Spurrier WR, but he would have had to prove that to pro scouts and GM's before they'd draft him in round 1 and he failed the test.

schmiddog
07-30-2007, 09:07 AM
Definitely a guy who will get drafted, but he's not quite starting material at the next level. I could see him being a situational guy, he is quite a pounder

GB12
07-30-2007, 01:11 PM
Definitely a guy who will get drafted, but he's not quite starting material at the next level. I could see him being a situational guy, he is quite a pounder

He isn't necessarily a power back though. That's where the Dayne comparison comes in, he doesn't run as you would expect for his size.

ironman4579
07-30-2007, 01:24 PM
i think he is similar to dayne in the fact he is huge... but he is numble on his feet and i think he will surprise.. i really belive he is far mosre athletic than dayne ever was

That was Dayne's whole problem though. He didn't run like a big back, with power. He tried to dance through holes. He thought he had speed or was shifty. That's why I see a similiarity with Hill and Dayne. They run very similiarly.

Da Big Harv
07-30-2007, 04:11 PM
I disagree. First, the Penn St RB theory was junk to begin with. The failure of their RB's had a lot more to do with injuries than the school they came from and pro scouts and GM's knew that. It was just unknowledgable fans who believed it. However, the Spurrier WR theory and the Tedford QB theory are sound and believe me pro scouts and GM's are very wary of the players who play those positions for those HC's. That's why Rice fell to round 2.
The reason the theory is sound in a lot of instances, is because each spring college HC's put their best freshmen in certain positions. Over the years, pro scouts and GM's come to know where college HC's put their best freshmen. The longer you are a college HC, the more obvious it becomes where you place your better players.
In Hill's case, I think the comparison to past RB's is irrelevant because Wisconsin has a new HC and nobody knows his tendancies just yet. The comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the HC. Pro scouts and GM's will judge Hill on his merrit until such time as the new Wisconsin HC shows his tendancies,
Don't get me wrong, Rice had his opportunities in the post season to prove he was worth a 1st round pick and not just another Spurrier WR, but he would have had to prove that to pro scouts and GM's before they'd draft him in round 1 and he failed the test.

I read that a couple times and still don't understand what your tryin to say.
What do coaches putting there best freshman on the field have to do with P.J. Hill being compared to previous Wisconsin backs and his pro potential?

BamaFalcon59
07-30-2007, 08:09 PM
I read that a couple times and still don't understand what your tryin to say.
What do coaches putting there best freshman on the field have to do with P.J. Hill being compared to previous Wisconsin backs and his pro potential?

Coaches, not schools, lead to bad pro fits.

Wisconsin hires Jeff Tedford (example). UCLA hires Norm Chow (example). A QB excels at Wisconsin, but he is drafted lower than a normer player of his caliber due to fears about his production coming from Jeff Tedford's system.

A QB now excels at UCLA, and he is drafted high as expected. Because teams are no longer fearful that the production is purely due to Tedford's system.

It's like Hawaii. Is it going to Hawaii that gives Brennan the negative that Timmy Chang put up big numbers there too? No, it is the system he plays in under June Jones. If another coach with a different QB past was hired then the fear would likely go away.

yourfavestoner
07-30-2007, 09:15 PM
That was Dayne's whole problem though. He didn't run like a big back, with power. He tried to dance through holes. He thought he had speed or was shifty. That's why I see a similiarity with Hill and Dayne. They run very similiarly.

Yup. Dayne's actually very athletic for his size. That's why he dominated in college. However, once he stepped onto a playing field everybody else was as fast/faster than him, he failed. Why? Because he thinks he's Warrick Dunn. It's the same problem that Lendale White and Michael Bush will face in the pros.

I'm sorry, but I hate big backs that think they're scatbacks. You've got a big body. ******* use it.

ripdw27
07-30-2007, 10:23 PM
watch him every saturday hes the sh***t

BamaFalcon59
07-30-2007, 10:55 PM
Yup. Dayne's actually very athletic for his size. That's why he dominated in college. However, once he stepped onto a playing field everybody else was as fast/faster than him, he failed. Why? Because he thinks he's Warrick Dunn. It's the same problem that Lendale White and Michael Bush will face in the pros.

I'm sorry, but I hate big backs that think they're scatbacks. You've got a big body. ******* use it.

Unfortunately you don't find many 240 plus pound backs who actually pound the rock now adays.

Billingsley26
07-30-2007, 11:49 PM
Coaches, not schools, lead to bad pro fits.

Wisconsin hires Jeff Tedford (example). UCLA hires Norm Chow (example). A QB excels at Wisconsin, but he is drafted lower than a normer player of his caliber due to fears about his production coming from Jeff Tedford's system.

A QB now excels at UCLA, and he is drafted high as expected. Because teams are no longer fearful that the production is purely due to Tedford's system.

It's like Hawaii. Is it going to Hawaii that gives Brennan the negative that Timmy Chang put up big numbers there too? No, it is the system he plays in under June Jones. If another coach with a different QB past was hired then the fear would likely go away.

I couldn't disagree more with you. I dont think the HC has much to do with it as much as the Program Prestige itself. Tell me something. If you hear of two LB's, one from Arkansas State and the other from Penn State who would you want without even knowing thier names or stats? Obviously the Penn State player. Personally I think that Jared Zabransky is a better QB and a better prospect than Troy Smith, yet Zabransky didnt even get drafted, while Smith went in the 5th round. Any reasons? Perhaps because Smith went to Ohio State and won the Heisman while Zabransky went to Boise State. Still, I think that even if Smith didnt win the Heisman he would still be higher than others.

In the end, to me it seems as though a schools prestige and history has more to do with it than the schools head coach.

Sniper
07-30-2007, 11:58 PM
I couldn't disagree more with you. I dont think the HC has much to do with it as much as the Program Prestige itself. Tell me something. If you hear of two LB's, one from Arkansas State and the other from Penn State who would you want without even knowing thier names or stats? Obviously the Penn State player. Personally I think that Jared Zabransky is a better QB and a better prospect than Troy Smith, yet Zabransky didnt even get drafted, while Smith went in the 5th round. Any reasons? Perhaps because Smith went to Ohio State and won the Heisman while Zabransky went to Boise State. Still, I think that even if Smith didnt win the Heisman he would still be higher than others.

In the end, to me it seems as though a schools prestige and history has more to do with it than the schools head coach.

A) I'd want the PSU LB because PSU pumps out LB like Lindsay Lohan pumps out arrests.
B) I'd still want Troy Smith. Other than Florida where he never had time to throw, Troy proved himself as a clutch big game player (3-0 vs. Michigan, beating Texas @ Texas, etc...) Smith is a damn good QB and one of the later round prospects whom I think will eventually be very good. Jared Zabransky is NOT a better QB than Troy.

Billingsley26
07-31-2007, 12:11 AM
A) I'd want the PSU LB because PSU pumps out LB like Lindsay Lohan pumps out arrests.
B) I'd still want Troy Smith. Other than Florida where he never had time to throw, Troy proved himself as a clutch big game player (3-0 vs. Michigan, beating Texas @ Texas, etc...) Smith is a damn good QB and one of the later round prospects whom I think will eventually be very good. Jared Zabransky is NOT a better QB than Troy.

lol, well I only used Zabransky because I have heard some say he was a better prospect than Troy Smith. But thats a different debate. But you see my point of how much I think a program and its prestige has over the HC.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 12:20 AM
lol, well I only used Zabransky because I have heard some say he was a better prospect than Troy Smith. But thats a different debate. But you see my point of how much I think a program and its prestige has over the HC.

I do. But sometimes you hit a lot with certain players from certain schools, I.E DBs from Ohio State, WR from Michigan, everyone in the late early 2000s from Miami....

draftguru151
07-31-2007, 12:24 AM
That wasn't his point though, his point is the system those coaches run make the players seem better than they really are. Also a player will never be purely drafted over someone else just because the school they are at. The points you used were terribly because one, PSU and Arkansas State play at completely different levels, and two there aren't many people (if any) who actually know what they're talking about and had Z as a better prospect than Smith. You put Dan Connor on Arkansas State and and one of their LBs on PSU and Connor will be taken first.

Billingsley26
07-31-2007, 12:46 AM
That wasn't his point though, his point is the system those coaches run make the players seem better than they really are. Also a player will never be purely drafted over someone else just because the school they are at. The points you used were terribly because one, PSU and Arkansas State play at completely different levels, and two there aren't many people (if any) who actually know what they're talking about and had Z as a better prospect than Smith. You put Dan Connor on Arkansas State and and one of their LBs on PSU and Connor will be taken first.

No way bro. You just contradicted(sp?) yourself. First you say that you cant compare a LB from Ark State with a PSU LB, then you go to say that if Connor was on Ark State he would go ahead of an Ark State LB on PSU. Come on, make up your mind. Theres no way. As good as Connor is, if he played 4 years at Ark State, against the sun belt or CUSA-wherever they are- he still wouldnt be looked upon that highly. We all know it.

Also your point about a player being drafted based on his school over another kids school could be true. Explain to me how Leon Hall went higher than Usama Young? Ive heard that Young oul be better than Hall. But let me get something here. You are arguing that even though someone goes to a small school that wouldnt matter. Obviously it does matter. It goes the same for QB from USC. How does Matt Cassel get drafted after starting 1 game at SC? He may have had good mechanics and what not, but the fact stil remains that he went to a school known for producing QB's.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 12:52 AM
No way bro. You just contradicted(sp?) yourself. First you say that you cant compare a LB from Ark State with a PSU LB, then you go to say that if Connor was on Ark State he would go ahead of an Ark State LB on PSU. Come on, make up your mind. Theres no way. As good as Connor is, if he played 4 years at Ark State, against the sun belt or CUSA-wherever they are- he still wouldnt be looked upon that highly. We all know it.

Also your point about a player being drafted based on his school over another kids school could be true. Explain to me how Leon Hall went higher than Usama Young? Ive heard that Young oul be better than Hall. But let me get something here. You are arguing that even though someone goes to a small school that wouldnt matter. Obviously it does matter. It goes the same for QB from USC. How does Matt Cassel get drafted after starting 1 game at SC? He may have had good mechanics and what not, but the fact stil remains that he went to a school known for producing QB's.

Leon Hall got drafted higher, um, **** why was that? Oh yeah because he's a better cornerback than Young? That might be it

GB12
07-31-2007, 12:54 AM
So this PJ Hill guy...

BuckNaked
07-31-2007, 01:11 AM
So this PJ Hill guy...

Word is that he plays runningback. Take it for what it's worth.

neko4
07-31-2007, 01:12 AM
Penn State plays teams 10,000,000x tougher than arkansas state in conference play, Penn State does a better job of recruiting(Which means they get better players, ussually top schools get better coaches and that explains why bigger school players ussually get drafted higher

Iamcanadian
07-31-2007, 10:45 AM
No way bro. You just contradicted(sp?) yourself. First you say that you cant compare a LB from Ark State with a PSU LB, then you go to say that if Connor was on Ark State he would go ahead of an Ark State LB on PSU. Come on, make up your mind. Theres no way. As good as Connor is, if he played 4 years at Ark State, against the sun belt or CUSA-wherever they are- he still wouldnt be looked upon that highly. We all know it.

Also your point about a player being drafted based on his school over another kids school could be true. Explain to me how Leon Hall went higher than Usama Young? Ive heard that Young oul be better than Hall. But let me get something here. You are arguing that even though someone goes to a small school that wouldnt matter. Obviously it does matter. It goes the same for QB from USC. How does Matt Cassel get drafted after starting 1 game at SC? He may have had good mechanics and what not, but the fact stil remains that he went to a school known for producing QB's.

Ya, that's why Jerry Rice went in round 1 coming from that football powerhouse Mississippi Valley St. That's why Demarcus Ware was drafted in round 1 from Troy St. If you have talent, it doesn't matter what school you go to, your going to be drafted higher than a guy with no talent no matter what school he attends. Pro scouts and GM's aren't as stupid as you seem to think.
When players are freshmen in college, the HC decides in the 1st spring where they will play. Each college HC has positions he prefers to place his better athletes. Michigan has consistantly for some time now put its better linemen on offense and the weaker athletes on defense and that is reflected in how Michigan linemen are drafted. That has nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the HC's. Most schools who have immense prestige are able to recruit better athletes but the HC still decides where to put the best of them. Some HC's like Spurrier put their better athletes at DB and their lessor athletes at WR. Pro scouts and GM's are well aware of these tendancies after a HC has been on the job for a few years and believe me, it is reflected in how that schools athletes are drafted.
Penn St had a reputation for LB's, Why?? Because Joe Paterno places his better athletes at that position and he lessor athletes at other positions. This is not rocket science, it's pretty simple stuff.

draftguru151
07-31-2007, 10:52 AM
No way bro. You just contradicted(sp?) yourself. First you say that you cant compare a LB from Ark State with a PSU LB, then you go to say that if Connor was on Ark State he would go ahead of an Ark State LB on PSU. Come on, make up your mind. Theres no way. As good as Connor is, if he played 4 years at Ark State, against the sun belt or CUSA-wherever they are- he still wouldnt be looked upon that highly. We all know it.

Also your point about a player being drafted based on his school over another kids school could be true. Explain to me how Leon Hall went higher than Usama Young? Ive heard that Young oul be better than Hall. But let me get something here. You are arguing that even though someone goes to a small school that wouldnt matter. Obviously it does matter. It goes the same for QB from USC. How does Matt Cassel get drafted after starting 1 game at SC? He may have had good mechanics and what not, but the fact stil remains that he went to a school known for producing QB's.

I didn't contradict myself at all, I'm saying if you put a player at the talent level of Dan Connor on a team like that against a talent level of a player at Ark St Connor will be drafted first because he is the more talented player.

And again with these terrible examples, why was Leon Hall drafted first? Because he's a better player, Hall shut down some great WRs last year and is a fantastic cover corner. That had nothing to do with the schools they were at but the level of talent at the schools and the talent of the players.

Cassel was drafted as a 7th round project QB because Bilicheck felt that he had more upside than the other QBs available. He was behind the 1st overall pick and the 11th overall pick in his career.

Teams don't draft players because of the schools they go to, like canadian said, GMs aren't as stupid as you think they are.

Billingsley26
07-31-2007, 12:33 PM
I didn't contradict myself at all, I'm saying if you put a player at the talent level of Dan Connor on a team like that against a talent level of a player at Ark St Connor will be drafted first because he is the more talented player.

And again with these terrible examples, why was Leon Hall drafted first? Because he's a better player, Hall shut down some great WRs last year and is a fantastic cover corner. That had nothing to do with the schools they were at but the level of talent at the schools and the talent of the players.

Cassel was drafted as a 7th round project QB because Bilicheck felt that he had more upside than the other QBs available. He was behind the 1st overall pick and the 11th overall pick in his career.

Teams don't draft players because of the schools they go to, like canadian said, GMs aren't as stupid as you think they are.

Your just reinstating my points about Leon Hall and Usama Young vs. the Big School and Small school. Thats exactly my point. Because he went to a bigger school which is known and has much more prestige than Kent State, scouts will obviously look there first.

Maybe Cassel wasnt the best example, and I understand that point. I dont think Gm's are stupid (well some of them anyways), but I still believe that certain schools will have players drafted because of thier program and presitge history.

ironman4579
07-31-2007, 01:01 PM
Your just reinstating my points about Leon Hall and Usama Young vs. the Big School and Small school. Thats exactly my point. Because he went to a bigger school which is known and has much more prestige than Kent State, scouts will obviously look there first.

Maybe Cassel wasnt the best example, and I understand that point. I dont think Gm's are stupid (well some of them anyways), but I still believe that certain schools will have players drafted because of thier program and presitge history.


He really didn't. You at least intimated that Hall was drafted first because he went to a better school, but that Young was the better player. He was saying that Hall was the better player, thus was drafted first. I would say Michigan has a least a bit of an advantage on Pitt in the prestige department, so by that logic, wouldn't Hall have been taken before Revis based on school alone?

CARDIAC CAT 7
08-02-2007, 03:15 AM
PJ Hill and Ron Dayne are compared to each because they came from the same school. To me he reminds me of a healthy version of Duce Staley, which isnt all that bad, he could maybe become a featured back in the NFL but he needs to step up against High Caliber Teams , ALL THE TIME.

Sniper
08-02-2007, 04:24 AM
PJ Hill and Ron Dayne are compared to each because they came from the same school. To me he reminds me of a healthy version of Duce Staley, which isnt all that bad, he could maybe become a featured back in the NFL but he needs to step up against High Caliber Teams , ALL THE TIME.

Correct. He didn't do jack against Michigan running wise (20-54-0), Illinois (12-50-0), Iowa (28-77-1), Arkansas (19-36-0). Too inconsistent for my liking.

MikeIsGood
08-02-2007, 11:56 AM
He struggled against Michigan. No excuses. They stopped him on the ground well, though he was able to make some impact receiving out of the backfield.

Towards the end of the year he was playing injured and, let's face it, being out of shape no doubt wore on his body after the load he carried early on. He had a lot of work to do this offseason to prevent that from happening again in the future, but lucky for Badger fans he has been hard at work since recovering from his surgery.

http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/203889

Hill is down to 223 pounds.

Sniper
08-02-2007, 03:47 PM
He struggled against Michigan. No excuses. They stopped him on the ground well, though he was able to make some impact receiving out of the backfield.

Towards the end of the year he was playing injured and, let's face it, being out of shape no doubt wore on his body after the load he carried early on. He had a lot of work to do this offseason to prevent that from happening again in the future, but lucky for Badger fans he has been hard at work since recovering from his surgery.

http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/203889

Hill is down to 223 pounds.

To be completely fair to Hill, Michigan stopped a lot of running backs.

princefielder28
08-02-2007, 04:34 PM
Correct. He didn't do jack against Michigan running wise (20-54-0), Illinois (12-50-0), Iowa (28-77-1), Arkansas (19-36-0). Too inconsistent for my liking.

Reminder, he was a freshmen

CARDIAC CAT 7
08-02-2007, 06:54 PM
He is still a better prospect with more potential than Mike Hart. :)

jbooshey
08-02-2007, 07:57 PM
PJ suffered from injuries towards the end of the season, when we were playing our best competition...he was a RS Frosh also...so inconsistency should be expected. Noted before though is that Hill is working hard on his body by dropping 20lbs...most of his weight last year was in his lower body and he had a very small upper body for a 240lbs back, which is why he suffered from stingers/shoulder injuries...he should be better equipped this year and a much better looking prospect. He isn't SLOW as some assume...he broke 3 or 4 40+yd runs last year and has very nimble feet...but for those who don't think he runs hard must have only paid attention towards the end of the season when he was hurt...the beginning of the season he was punishing people! He should be a middle round prospect by time he is done...I'm not sure who he reminds me of, but its definetly NOT Ron Dayne...he has more moves than Dayne and plays a big roll in the passing game as well.

Michigan
08-02-2007, 08:26 PM
He is still a better prospect with more potential than Mike Hart. :)

no he isn't...

Sniper
08-02-2007, 09:21 PM
He is still a better prospect with more potential than Mike Hart. :)

More potential? Yes, seeing as he's a redshirt soph now. I'd take Hart because Hart brings it every game and does so many little things well that go unnoticed. He's a great pass blocker, the first guy never brings him down etc...He may be 5'9 200 but he runs with way more power and beastiness than Hill does.

jbooshey
08-03-2007, 08:23 AM
Correct. He didn't do jack against Michigan running wise (20-54-0), Illinois (12-50-0), Iowa (28-77-1), Arkansas (19-36-0). Too inconsistent for my liking.

Against Michigan, Hill had 118 total yds including a receiving TD...not to mention he actually rushed for more yards than Michigan was giving up on average...they were the No. 1 rush defense in the nation at the time.

Against Illinois, those yards were in the 1st half at most as he sat out the rest of the game with an injury.

Iowa sold out to stop the run, which is why our backup QB was able to throw for 228yds and 2TDs in his first start ever.

Arkansas gave UW the first 5 man front that they had ever seen..,and it appeared they weren't expecting it as they for the most part got owned (except Joe T. because he is incredible).

There I made excuses for every game that you questioned...now say you like him!

Iamcanadian
08-03-2007, 11:18 AM
no he isn't...

Yes, he is. Hart will be lucky to be drafted. He's a great college RB with almost no potential for pro football. He's too small and worse, he's too slow for pro ball.
Some college stars simply don't translate well to the pro game and Hart is one of them. As a college player, I love Hart when he is healthy but I don't see much pro potential in him.

CARDIAC CAT 7
08-03-2007, 01:55 PM
More potential? Yes, seeing as he's a redshirt soph now. I'd take Hart because Hart brings it every game and does so many little things well that go unnoticed. He's a great pass blocker, the first guy never brings him down etc...He may be 5'9 200 but he runs with way more power and beastiness than Hill does.

Hart is a 5'9" , 200 lbs wannabe powerback. Thats not even the worst of it hes ALWAYS HURT or playing with an injury, do you really think that his frame and his style of running will last in the NFL???

Sniper
08-03-2007, 04:13 PM
Hart is a 5'9" , 200 lbs wannabe powerback. Thats not even the worst of it hes ALWAYS HURT or playing with an injury, do you really think that his frame and his style of running will last in the NFL???

He's always hurt? What the ****? He missed a couple games his sophomore year and played hurt too, and then got his shoulder scoped at the end of this year. That's not always hurt. And he's more of a power back than Hill could ever dream of being. I do think his style will last. Last I checked it's a good thing to average 5 ypc, have exceptional balance, never get taken down by the first guy and has super vision. Yeah gee I don't know why I thought he was good.

umphrey
08-03-2007, 05:45 PM
He's always hurt? What the ****? He missed a couple games his sophomore year and played hurt too, and then got his shoulder scoped at the end of this year. That's not always hurt. And he's more of a power back than Hill could ever dream of being. I do think his style will last. Last I checked it's a good thing to average 5 ypc, have exceptional balance, never get taken down by the first guy and has super vision. Yeah gee I don't know why I thought he was good.

Regardless, he is still slow and small, and college production doesn't make a NFL player...

Sniper
08-03-2007, 08:16 PM
Regardless, he is still slow and small, and college production doesn't make a NFL player...

He's slow 40 yard dash time-wise. He's quick to hit the holes. So you would rather have Chris Henry than Mike Hart? That meaning a guy who is 6'1, 230, runs a 4.35 and averaged 3.3 ypc in college over a guy who is 5'9, 200 pounds, runs like a beast, has great vision, quickness, balance, power and does a terrific job in pass blocking? It's not because I'm a Michigan fan alone but I can appreciate the little things Hart does right over a physical freak like Henry who can't play the game.

CARDIAC CAT 7
08-03-2007, 08:46 PM
He's slow 40 yard dash time-wise. He's quick to hit the holes. So you would rather have Chris Henry than Mike Hart? That meaning a guy who is 6'1, 230, runs a 4.35 and averaged 3.3 ypc in college over a guy who is 5'9, 200 pounds, runs like a beast, has great vision, quickness, balance, power and does a terrific job in pass blocking? It's not because I'm a Michigan fan alone but I can appreciate the little things Hart does right over a physical freak like Henry who can't play the game.

If hes sooo darn good how come USC made him look like he belongs in Divison 2 last year. If hes going to run over people in the NFL might as well start with the futures prospects??? Hill still has time to get better, Hart has maxed out, name one quality back in the NFL from Michigan that gotdrafted you cant, THEY HAVE ALL BEEN BUSTES, Its the system and the talent around him, not the quality of the player. Your so consumed by the fact that he goes to Michigan you asume hes 1st Team All American. If you want to talk about him so much go make a thread about him, this I think was for PJ Hill.

Sniper
08-03-2007, 09:03 PM
If hes sooo darn good how come USC made him look like he belongs in Divison 2 last year. If hes going to run over people in the NFL might as well start with the futures prospects??? Hill still has time to get better, Hart has maxed out, name one quality back in the NFL from Michigan that gotdrafted you cant, THEY HAVE ALL BEEN BUSTES, Its the system and the talent around him, not the quality of the player. Your so consumed by the fact that he goes to Michigan you asume hes 1st Team All American. If you want to talk about him so much go make a thread about him, this I think was for PJ Hill.

Because USC's defense was incredible? He still had 142 yards and 3 TD vs. Ohio State and before SC didn't have a game under 91 yards.

P-L
08-03-2007, 09:18 PM
Against Michigan, Hill had 118 total yds including a receiving TD...not to mention he actually rushed for more yards than Michigan was giving up on average...they were the No. 1 rush defense in the nation at the time.
At the time? They had the #1 rush defense the entire year. In fact, with the exception of two long runs by Ohio State, no one could ran on them at all.

gator3guy
08-03-2007, 10:06 PM
Hart also never fumbles so that a plus.

But back to PJ Hill, I try not to rush judge judgment on kids especially when they only played one season of college football. But he's gonna be an average player at the next level and prolly wont get drafted high because he wont test well but I do still think he will be on an NFL roster for a few years. The durability concerns are just that, concerns. He started off like a rocket and just fizzled out, mainly do to the injuries. But then again 1600 yards as a Big Ten freshman isnt bad at all. Definately will be an interesting follow for the rest of his career.

Memorex
08-04-2007, 10:58 PM
he might not even start this year, they have a beast freshmen coming in

HoopsDemon12
08-04-2007, 11:09 PM
he might not even start this year, they have a beast freshmen coming in

he will start this year if he is healty.... an un proven freshman over a guy who rushed for 1600 yards? not likely... besides if he gets breaks with this freshman in the rotation he may not fizzle out as bad... by the way who is this freshman?

draftguru151
08-04-2007, 11:14 PM
I assume he's talking about John Clay, who isn't academically eligible to play next season. Even if he was playing he wouldn't start over Hill.

Memorex
08-04-2007, 11:14 PM
John Clay, from Racine, WI

yeah, thats right i did hear about the academics, but i think that about mid way through the season he would take PJ's starting job, the kid is a beast

GB12
08-04-2007, 11:14 PM
He's probably talking about John Clay, but there is no way he's going to beat out Hill. Clay will take over after he leaves, but saying he'll start this year is rediculous. He had a down year as a senior last year too. He didn't even make first team all-state.

MikeIsGood
08-06-2007, 10:15 AM
He's probably talking about John Clay, but there is no way he's going to beat out Hill. Clay will take over after he leaves, but saying he'll start this year is rediculous. He had a down year as a senior last year too. He didn't even make first team all-state.

Clay and his mediocre offensive line were all injured last season. That said, he shouldn't be challanging slimmed-down PJ Hill for the starting job. I could see him surpassing Lance Smith as the first backup, though. It is unclear how much he has improved since last season, though strides appear to have been made.

draftguru, Clay is most definitely NOT academically ineligable yet. He is in summer school, and doing well as classes are coming to an end, and at this point is expected to play in 2007. It is still a possibility he does not qualify, but early reports that he would have to sit out 2007 were complete bull. Everyone jumped the gun far too early on that ordeal - before summer school had even started. He was ineligable at the end of his Senior year. He took summer school and his grades will be sent to the NCAA clearinghouse when the classes are completed. We will not receive official word until then.

Now certainly I think it's kind of pathetic that any of these guys can't put in the work to meet the minimum elgibility requirements when they're getting a free ride through college, but the kids cannot be counted out at the beginning of summer. Have to wait on August.

draftguru151
08-06-2007, 10:36 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=7/9/2007&id=26112

That combined stuff posted in the recruiting thread led me to believe he was ineligible. Do you have a link to saying he isn't ineligable?

MikeIsGood
08-06-2007, 10:48 AM
http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2007/07/31/local_sports/columns/doc46aebb9f15d73065073127.txt

That JSO link should have never been trusted in the first place because it came before summer school started. At best, the JSO article should be interpreted as, "he's ineligible as of the end of his Senior season." I would think Badger fans, after going through the same thing last year with Lance Smith, would know better than to jump to a conclusion that early. They must have thought his grades were pretty God-awful to not leave open the door for improving them to become eligible during summer school.

EDIT: I'm not saying he's eligible. I'm just saying he's not INeligible yet. We likely won't know the verdict for two weeks or so.

MikeIsGood
08-18-2007, 02:24 AM
Clay has been cleared, as expected.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/sports/206066

OhioState
08-18-2007, 08:14 AM
Reminder, he was a freshmen

so was Chris Wells

Sniper
08-18-2007, 08:22 AM
so was Chris Wells

And that means what exactly?

princefielder28
08-18-2007, 09:43 AM
so was Chris Wells

whats your point???

OhioState
08-18-2007, 09:44 AM
And that means what exactly?

i remember Beanie being pretty successfull against you guys even though he was a freshman. I am just saying that that is not a great excuse for why Hill did bad against michigan

princefielder28
08-18-2007, 09:49 AM
i remember Beanie being pretty successfull against you guys even though he was a freshman. I am just saying that that is not a great excuse for why Hill did bad against michigan

Michigan had one of the best run defenses in college football last year and on top of that it was PJ Hill's 1st ever Big Ten Game and 4th overall.

Sniper
08-18-2007, 02:21 PM
i remember Beanie being pretty successfull against you guys even though he was a freshman. I am just saying that that is not a great excuse for why Hill did bad against michigan

Hill also had to carry a full work load. Wells had 5 carries for 56 yards but if you take away his 52 yard touchdown run he averaged 1 ypc, not that great...

Memorex
08-20-2007, 08:36 PM
You guys wait, Clay is going to be a beast, he may be one of the only good WI backs to make the pro transition.