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View Full Version : Culpepper signs with Raiders


soybean
07-31-2007, 12:37 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2955395

PalmerToCJ
07-31-2007, 12:45 AM
I can buy that. Play him the one year while Russell learns, I think this would actually be the team that could use Culpepper given his situation the most, I'm not sure if this is where Culpepper would be best off for his own sake though. Being a backup somewhere else may make him look better than playing with an offense that was as bad as Oakland was last year.

Boston
07-31-2007, 12:45 AM
Somebody should tell Daunte that Moss was traded...

neko4
07-31-2007, 12:50 AM
Somebody should tell Daunte that Moss was traded...
Haha

My quick, suprising prediction
If Culpepper goes to OAK, he wont beat out McCown

WMD
07-31-2007, 01:14 AM
They should just stick with Josh McCown while JaMarcus develops.

CC.SD
07-31-2007, 01:21 AM
They could have saved themselves the first overall pick and just gotten him in the first place; Very similar skillsets if you ask me.

nobodyinparticular
07-31-2007, 01:27 AM
They could have saved themselves the first overall pick and just gotten him in the first place; Very similar skillsets if you ask me.

Well except for the fact that Culpepper's knee went through a shredder, he's 30 years old, Russell has more mobility, and Culpepper's future is in question whether he will actually ever be able to play again.

Yeah, other than that, yeah, I see the resemblance.

neko4
07-31-2007, 01:32 AM
They should just stick with Josh McCown while JaMarcus develops.

Well except for the fact that Culpepper's knee went through a shredder, he's 30 years old, Russell has more mobility, and Culpepper's future is in question whether he will actually ever be able to play again.

Yeah, other than that, yeah, I see the resemblance.

What they said, I really dont think Daunte is a starter anymore

Flyboy
07-31-2007, 01:35 AM
Well except for the fact that Culpepper's knee went through a shredder, he's 30 years old, Russell has more mobility, and Culpepper's future is in question whether he will actually ever be able to play again.

Yeah, other than that, yeah, I see the resemblance.

LOL. Reminds me of Shiver post on Gaines Adams/Mario Williams.

ks_perfection
07-31-2007, 03:05 AM
What they said, I really dont think Daunte is a starter anymore

Mccown has never been nor will ever be a starter.

Caddy
07-31-2007, 03:05 AM
I think the Raiders would be better off passing on Culpepper. All they need is a caretaker quarterback until Russell is ready to start and there is a decent chance that it will be this year anyway.

TheChampIsHere
07-31-2007, 03:20 AM
I would welcome him. With there being trouble getting Jamarcus into camp and it seems like it could be a while before his contract gets resolved, he wont be ready to play much this year. And it looks like the Raiders are trying hard to get some competition at the QB position, not just give the job to McCown. We brought in Cody Pickett the other day and with Walter continuing to struggle and Russell still in Alabama, Culpepper could be a nice addition and he could very well help this team. But I would say we should only sign him if we are extremely confident he is healthy, in good shape and would be ready to start the season opener if we asked him to, and it would have to be a 1 year deal or 2 at the most because the job is Jamarcus' next year.

WMD
07-31-2007, 05:33 AM
Mccown has never been nor will ever be a starter.

He started for the Cardinals for parts of the '03 and '05 seasons, and most of the '04 season.

Brent
07-31-2007, 08:39 AM
it doesn't matter who the raiders stick under center before JaMarcus, because they are just there to keep the seat warm and take sacks until he's learned enough of the playbook to step on the field. Much like Kerry Collins for the Titans.

Contr0versy
07-31-2007, 09:30 AM
They could have saved themselves the first overall pick and just gotten him in the first place; Very similar skillsets if you ask me.Yup, we should've drafted CJ and just brought in a average/decent QB (Drew Bledsoe, Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, etc) during free agency and look for a franchise QB next year or so. . . I'm still not sold on Russell being the franchise of our football team. Only time will tell, though.

diabsoule
07-31-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm still kind of surprised that Culpepper hasn't tried out for the Falcons. He seems like the team that could need him the most.

And I don't think McCown is as bad of a QB as people are making him out to be. I think given a good coaching staff he could develop as a QB. I think he's the perfect fit for Oakland now until Russell develops into the starter.

Fresh
07-31-2007, 10:50 AM
If Daunte signs with the Raiders he will be making a huge mistake. He will have an Aaron Brooks type year if thats the case. The offense is still bad and letting go a cancer doesn't help on the field.

Man_Of_Steel
07-31-2007, 10:58 AM
Mccown has never been nor will ever be a starter.

A few years ago he started alot for the Cards.

Iamcanadian
07-31-2007, 11:32 AM
I'm still kind of surprised that Culpepper hasn't tried out for the Falcons. He seems like the team that could need him the most.

And I don't think McCown is as bad of a QB as people are making him out to be. I think given a good coaching staff he could develop as a QB. I think he's the perfect fit for Oakland now until Russell develops into the starter.

McCown is garbage. He couldn't beat out a career backup in Detroit and Martz who is one of the great offensive minds in pro football got him out of town ASAP.
I don't think Russell will play too much this year especially if he is a long holdout. I wonder who they'll draft with the 1st overall pick next year.

Smooth Criminal
07-31-2007, 11:49 AM
I think its worth it for the Raiders to take a look at him. You sign him to a cheap one year deal and see if he can play. If not o well he probably will only get the league minimum anyway.

Shiver
07-31-2007, 12:52 PM
I'm still kind of surprised that Culpepper hasn't tried out for the Falcons. He seems like the team that could need him the most.

And I don't think McCown is as bad of a QB as people are making him out to be. I think given a good coaching staff he could develop as a QB. I think he's the perfect fit for Oakland now until Russell develops into the starter.

The Falcons didn't want him. It's pretty bad when teams think Joey Harrington is better than you.

Windy
07-31-2007, 12:56 PM
According to the Oakland Tribune the Raiders will be signing him very soon. I remember last year we were expected to give up a 2nd Round to get him.

nobodyinparticular
07-31-2007, 01:02 PM
I would welcome him. With there being trouble getting Jamarcus into camp and it seems like it could be a while before his contract gets resolved, he wont be ready to play much this year. And it looks like the Raiders are trying hard to get some competition at the QB position, not just give the job to McCown. We brought in Cody Pickett the other day and with Walter continuing to struggle and Russell still in Alabama, Culpepper could be a nice addition and he could very well help this team. But I would say we should only sign him if we are extremely confident he is healthy, in good shape and would be ready to start the season opener if we asked him to, and it would have to be a 1 year deal or 2 at the most because the job is Jamarcus' next year.

News out of Oakland is not that Walter is performing poorly, but just that he's still hurting with his knee. If that were to continue into the season, that would leave only McCown and a green rookie who held out well into camp available for the season. So should McCown go down, you'd have a rookie who was well behind in terms of the learning curve trying to step in with... Cody Pickett behind him? Or go out and give Pep a minimal contract and have him as a safety-safety valve.

Windy
07-31-2007, 01:07 PM
News out of Oakland is not that Walter is performing poorly, but just that he's still hurting with his knee. If that were to continue into the season, that would leave only McCown and a green rookie who held out well into camp available for the season. So should McCown go down, you'd have a rookie who was well behind in terms of the learning curve trying to step in with... Cody Pickett behind him? Or go out and give Pep a minimal contract and have him as a safety-safety valve.


you forgot jeff otis http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

nobodyinparticular
07-31-2007, 01:24 PM
you forgot jeff otis http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

I just couldn't remember his first name. But I would imagine Pickett would make the team over Otis anyway... I think...

soybean
07-31-2007, 01:48 PM
I just couldn't remember his first name. But I would imagine Pickett would make the team over Otis anyway... I think...

Don't you guys have booty too, or did you guys drop him?

doingthisinsteadofwork
07-31-2007, 01:50 PM
cut which is to bad I like his name better than Otis.

Donno
07-31-2007, 01:52 PM
If the Raiders could get Culpepper for cheap that would be great.

Stash
07-31-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm really hoping all the talk about Culpepper is just a ploy to put pressure on Russell to sign. The only way I would want Pep on the team is for the league minimum or something around that.

Crazy_Chris
07-31-2007, 04:41 PM
On NFL Live they said the raiders were actually pretty close to getting a deal done with c-pep

Sveen
07-31-2007, 04:53 PM
NAPA, Calif. (July 31, 2007) -- The NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports the Oakland Raiders are prepared to sign Daunte Culpepper to a one-year contract -- assuming all goes well when the 30-year-old quarterback works out for the team.

Culpepper held a private workout for a member of the Raiders' personnel department July 30 in Florida and did well enough there to persuade the team to fly him out to California for an additional workout

Source: http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/OAK/10275814

Fitzgerald11
07-31-2007, 05:04 PM
I think he would be smartto join them. He can prove that he can still play and then go to another team next year.

mcdlaxbonz13
07-31-2007, 07:43 PM
espn reports he has signed a one year deal and will have a conference tomorrow

CC.SD
07-31-2007, 07:54 PM
Hahahahahahahaha he's about five years too young to play for the Raiders yet!

Sucka!

HoopsDemon12
07-31-2007, 08:09 PM
Well except for the fact that Culpepper's knee went through a shredder, he's 30 years old, Russell has more mobility, and Culpepper's future is in question whether he will actually ever be able to play again.

Yeah, other than that, yeah, I see the resemblance.

LOL. Reminds me of Shiver post on Gaines Adams/Mario Williams.

haha you mean the one in my sig? ya i laughed just as hard at this one

Flyboy
07-31-2007, 08:14 PM
haha you mean the one in my sig? ya i laughed just as hard at this one

Precisely.

JETS5128
07-31-2007, 08:41 PM
He signed

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-raiders-culpepper&prov=ap&type=lgns

HoopsDemon12
07-31-2007, 08:43 PM
hmmm so the guy that so many people comparred russel to... is now on the team... well that cant be a bad thing... man in madden they are going to have to quarterbacks with wicked arm strenght

Contr0versy
07-31-2007, 08:45 PM
We're going to the Superbowl this year! Rayduzzzzzzzzzzzz! :D

TheChampIsHere
07-31-2007, 09:28 PM
I gotta say Im happy about this. Now we dont have to be worried about Russells holdout and contract delays. Yes, its still important we get him into camp soon so he can learn but we dont need him to play this year. With McCown and Culpepper we are fine at QB. Sure, neither of them is very promising, but both can be capable starters for us and with Culpepper who knows what might happen, hes still pretty young and it wasnt long ago this guy was looking like a potential HOFer. Am I expecting a lot out of either of them? no, but this signing takes away any sense of urgency to rush Jamarcus onto the field. We can now give him a year to learn a la Carson Palmer and hand him the starting job next year. And as far as playoff hopes, this signing does a lot to encourage them. Sure, Im not in any way expecting the Raiders to make the playoffs, but the point is with Culpepper, there is now a WAY that we can do it. If he was to return to form and our OL improves enough under Cable, and we combine that with our defense, and I can see a way that things could shake out that would turn the Raiders into being a playoff team.

locseti
07-31-2007, 09:37 PM
This is great news, we needed a seasoned vet to help JaMarcus along. Im so glad he will be the mentor instead of Josh McClown

This has been the best offseason - draft and FA wise - that I can remember. I just wish we didn't release bing.

neko4
07-31-2007, 09:53 PM
I gotta say Im happy about this. Now we dont have to be worried about Russells holdout and contract delays. Yes, its still important we get him into camp soon so he can learn but we dont need him to play this year. With McCown and Culpepper we are fine at QB. Sure, neither of them is very promising, but both can be capable starters for us and with Culpepper who knows what might happen, hes still pretty young and it wasnt long ago this guy was looking like a potential HOFer. Am I expecting a lot out of either of them? no, but this signing takes away any sense of urgency to rush Jamarcus onto the field. .

So Al did something right?

Staubach12
07-31-2007, 10:07 PM
He's as good as done IMO. If he was bad with the Dolphins, you just watch. It'll be bad if he ever plays.

TheChampIsHere
07-31-2007, 10:09 PM
So Al did something right?

Al has done a lot of things right...

As for the issue of who makes the roster, I think we can rule out Booty (who I dont think is even on the team anymore), Otis and Pickett, theyre just camp bodies. McCown and Pepper i assume will be on the roster unless we make a shocking move and cut one of em but I dont see that. Jamarcus is obviously gonna take up a spot and then we still have Walter who I think we might end up placing on the IR, PUP or something of that sort, or maybe we just carry 4 QBs. I dont think we will drop Walter any time soon, Id expect we'd think about grooming him as a backup to Russell and unless someone elsewhere thinks they can make him a starter he could stay here for a while as a backup (I think McCown and Pepper are short term stopgap players while we groom Russell into a starter and once he steps into the starting role we let them walk elsewhere to try to start somewhere else. Walter seems like a good fit to be a backup to our offense, he can do a lot of the things Russell can in that he is a strong armed gun-slinging pocket passer but obviously he is not nearly as talented, athletic, mobile or durable.

Shane P. Hallam
07-31-2007, 10:27 PM
Walter will be cut I imagine. The Raiders aren't gonna keep 4 QBs on the roster. McCown will start the season, Culpepper will rehab his knee, and Russell will come in soon enough.

NGSeiler
08-01-2007, 01:12 AM
It'll sure be interesting to watch him behind that line.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 10:35 AM
He is done. He won't beat McCown for a starting position and isn't even better than Walter now. Walter is just as strong and is smarter, even if less experienced. If Culpepper plays at all during the season the raiders are in trouble. He will have at least two interceptions and a fumble for each touchdown, if he has any touchdowns.

Twice teams have decided that Joey Harrington was better than him, Miami and now Atlanta.

I still like the raiders but think that on offense they won't be good for a long time. Russell is lazy, inconsistent and will almost certainly be remembered as the guy the raiders picked ahead of Calvin Johnson.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 10:57 AM
Miami never decided Harrington was better than him, Culpepper was not healthy last season and that's why Harrington played. And the Atlanta thing is pure speculation on your part.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 12:51 PM
Miami never decided Harrington was better than him, Culpepper was not healthy last season and that's why Harrington played. And the Atlanta thing is pure speculation on your part.

Atlanta is looking at a season without Michael Vick, as he is unlikely to be playing during his trial at all, and that makes Harrington the number 1 guy and so the if the falcon's didn't even want to take a look at Culpepper that means they'd rather have Harrington starting for them, which is a bad sign.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:58 PM
They had already signed Harrington to a very nice back up QB contract and had him in camp working out and they knew he was healthy. They would have had to sign Culpepper adding his salary when Harrington is already getting paid a decent amount, have him learn the playbook and get chemistry with the team, and make sure he is 100% healthy and able to do everything they want their QB to do. So did the Falcons not sign Culpepper? Yes, but to say they chose Harrington over him is pure speculation.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 01:15 PM
They had already signed Harrington to a very nice back up QB contract and had him in camp working out and they knew he was healthy. They would have had to sign Culpepper adding his salary when Harrington is already getting paid a decent amount, have him learn the playbook and get chemistry with the team, and make sure he is 100% healthy and able to do everything they want their QB to do. So did the Falcons not sign Culpepper? Yes, but to say they chose Harrington over him is pure speculation.

Harrington's contract has almost no signing bonus and so getting rid of him would cost little, if they thought Culpepper was better but didn't have room for both.

TimD
08-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Culpepper in his prime has the same style as Russel now... maybe he can learn something from him...

Shiver
08-01-2007, 01:52 PM
They had already signed Harrington to a very nice back up QB contract and had him in camp working out and they knew he was healthy. They would have had to sign Culpepper adding his salary when Harrington is already getting paid a decent amount, have him learn the playbook and get chemistry with the team, and make sure he is 100% healthy and able to do everything they want their QB to do. So did the Falcons not sign Culpepper? Yes, but to say they chose Harrington over him is pure speculation.

What I am saying about Atlanta is based on what I have read from ESPN, NFL Network, PFT, etc. They talked about Culpepper and thought that Harrington would be the better option.

Fitzgerald11
08-01-2007, 01:56 PM
I think it's a good move. They can fix their offensive line and let Russell learn from the bench. There's no way he'll be ready to play anytime soon. He probablt won't sign for another 1-2 weeks.

D-Unit
08-01-2007, 02:05 PM
Oakland should've drafted Calvin Johnson. What a mistake!

SubNoize
08-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Oakland should've drafted Calvin Johnson. What a mistake!

why was it a mistake? yeah they have culpepper now singed to a 1 year deal and mccown another 1 year deal, but taking a franchise long term solution at qb over a wr (who is also unsigned) was a huge mistake. i hoping it was sarcasm because if it wasn't that was pretty dumb to say.

TheChampIsHere
08-01-2007, 03:18 PM
why was it a mistake? yeah they have culpepper now singed to a 1 year deal and mccown another 1 year deal, but taking a franchise long term solution at qb over a wr (who is also unsigned) was a huge mistake. i hoping it was sarcasm because if it wasn't that was pretty dumb to say.

I wonder if Russell will always be known as the guy taken over Calvin Johnson, as Johnson could end up being one of those incredible players that people will look back on and wonder how could anyone pass on a prospect like that...But the Raiders had a sense of urgency to draft a franchise QB which caused them to pass on Johnson for Russell and so far nothing has happened to make that decision look bad, and the signing of Culpepper does not change that sense of urgency because he doesnt seem like a long term solution and who knows if he'll even play remotely good this year.

SubNoize
08-01-2007, 03:38 PM
I wonder if Russell will always be known as the guy taken over Calvin Johnson, as Johnson could end up being one of those incredible players that people will look back on and wonder how could anyone pass on a prospect like that...But the Raiders had a sense of urgency to draft a franchise QB which caused them to pass on Johnson for Russell and so far nothing has happened to make that decision look bad, and the signing of Culpepper does not change that sense of urgency because he doesnt seem like a long term solution and who knows if he'll even play remotely good this year.

until johnson signs, puts on a uniform and plays, you can't say tha raiders regret passing on him. who's to say he's going to be this all-pro right out the gates? his #s will obviously be inflated because he'll be on a pass happy team with a weak run game. lets wait and see though on how he plays before we make him out to be jesus, he could flop.

Komp
08-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I like the pickup. Culpepper has had a fairly productive/positive career so far and will be a good influence on Jamarcus and should be a great mentor as well. I also think if he is even 80% healthy he is a better option than McCown/Walter at the QB position. I think the OL will be better this year, even if it is just through the scheme they will run, so C-Pep shouldn't get banged up too badly.

He could use this to springboard into a starting role on a good team next year that has an unresolved QB issue [Jax, Chi, etc].

D-Unit
08-01-2007, 04:11 PM
until johnson signs, puts on a uniform and plays, you can't say tha raiders regret passing on him. who's to say he's going to be this all-pro right out the gates? his #s will obviously be inflated because he'll be on a pass happy team with a weak run game. lets wait and see though on how he plays before we make him out to be jesus, he could flop.
Calvin Johnson flop??? OK, now you're the one convincing yourself.

Franchise QBs come along all the time.. and the way the NFL is now days, you can draft a franchise QB late in round 1.

I have SERIOUS doubts about Russell. He's a big time project.

princefielder28
08-01-2007, 04:14 PM
Oakland should've drafted Calvin Johnson. What a mistake!

It's alright that they drafted Russell but what threat does he really have to throw it to? Selecting Calvin in round 1 and Trent Edwards in round 3 would've been the way to go

D-Unit
08-01-2007, 04:19 PM
It's alright that they drafted Russell but what threat does he really have to throw it to? Selecting Calvin in round 1 and Trent Edwards in round 3 would've been the way to go
Well I don't think Porter is as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Art Shell was TERRRRRRRIBLE.

Raiders could've had CJ and Brady Quinn, if you think about it. At one point they were really teetering on whether they were going to take Quinn or Russell. If they were willing to consider taking him with the first overall pick this year, why wouldn't they give up a future first rounder that would probably be a lower pick?

#1chiefs_fan
08-01-2007, 04:25 PM
Think of what it could been if Randy Moss wasn't traded.

Komp
08-01-2007, 04:31 PM
Well I don't think Porter is as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Art Shell was TERRRRRRRIBLE.

Raiders could've had CJ and Brady Quinn, if you think about it. At one point they were really teetering on whether they were going to take Quinn or Russell. If they were willing to consider taking him with the first overall pick this year, why wouldn't they give up a future first rounder that would probably be a lower pick?

In retrospect, I don't think they were teetering whatsoever on Jamarcus or Quinn. It was JR all the way.

And I think it is just as easy [if not easier] to find a #1 WR after Rd1 than it is to find a franchise QB.

The Raiders have a lot of depth at WR [Curry, Porter, Travis Taylor, Mike Williams Zach Miller], it is just a question of someone stepping into a #1 WR role. If Porter returns to form the Raiders will have an OK WR core. If he doesn't than that will be addressed next offseason/draft I'm guessing. Rebuilding an offense doesn't happen in one season, especially when you were as bad as the Raiders were last year.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 04:34 PM
why was it a mistake? yeah they have culpepper now singed to a 1 year deal and mccown another 1 year deal, but taking a franchise long term solution at qb over a wr (who is also unsigned) was a huge mistake. i hoping it was sarcasm because if it wasn't that was pretty dumb to say.

You're assuming Russell will be a Franchise long term solution at qb, which is one big assumption considering how lazy and dis-interested he was at LSU, which lead to inconsistency that got so bad that many LSU fans where calling for his benching. Additionally he, like culpepper in the nfl, never saved himself at LSU by making good decisions but rather just let it fly and hoped for the best. Not saying that he doesn't have great potential, but he just is such a huge risk. Additionally had the raiders drafted Johnson their offense would've instantly improved as he would bail out McCown or Walter while Russel doesn't have anyone there to bail him out.

SubNoize
08-01-2007, 04:48 PM
You're assuming Russell will be a Franchise long term solution at qb, which is one big assumption considering how lazy and dis-interested he was at LSU, which lead to inconsistency that got so bad that many LSU fans where calling for his benching. Additionally he, like culpepper in the nfl, never saved himself at LSU by making good decisions but rather just let it fly and hoped for the best. Not saying that he doesn't have great potential, but he just is such a huge risk. Additionally had the raiders drafted Johnson their offense would've instantly improved as he would bail out McCown or Walter while Russel doesn't have anyone there to bail him out.

yeah because those multiple 4th quarter comebacks by russell were the culmination of his poor decision making right? i never once heard anybody calling to bench him, have no idea where you got that. russell has been very focused and a soft-spoken leader through OTAs up until this snag since camp. you're also assuming that johnson is going to be a big time player in the pros, that is unproven. people forget at one point gallery was considered a can't miss superstar until he played his first season. i laugh at your solution of keeping 2 mediocre qb's and letting them get "bailed" out by a rookie wr, you actually have to deliver the ball to get bailed out. porter and curry are both servicable enough to provide russell weapons if need be. also i'm not convincing myself of anything johnson could bust, he does have flaws and could have trouble finally facing elite corners in the nfl.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 05:13 PM
yeah because those multiple 4th quarter comebacks by russell were the culmination of his poor decision making right? i never once heard anybody calling to bench him, have no idea where you got that. russell has been very focused and a soft-spoken leader through OTAs up until this snag since camp. you're also assuming that johnson is going to be a big time player in the pros, that is unproven. people forget at one point gallery was considered a can't miss superstar until he played his first season. i laugh at your solution of keeping 2 mediocre qb's and letting them get "bailed" out by a rookie wr, you actually have to deliver the ball to get bailed out. porter and curry are both servicable enough to provide russell weapons if need be. also i'm not convincing myself of anything johnson could bust, he does have flaws and could have trouble finally facing elite corners in the nfl.

Actually you're right all two of those late comebacks this season where the result of Russell's poor decision making, as that was the only reason the team found themselves needing to comeback.

Did you follow LSU? Cause I know a lot of people who were LSU fans and were begging for Matt Flynn to be their starter.

While he may be a good, soft-spoken guy he never at LSU showed a drive to be great, he relied almost solely on his incredible abilities to save him, that and his awesome receivers.


As for Calvin Johnson he is easily the greatest WR prospect that has come into the draft in my memory, his only flaw as a prospect was that he's too big and too fast and his knees might start to wear down towards the end of his career.

As for my solution McCown is an average QB, not a mediocre one, there are many vikings fans who still despise the name McCown for knocking them out of the playoffs in week 17 a few years ago. And despite Walter's atrocious play he still has potential if the raiders oline ever stopped sucking. I'd rather have a for sure average QB and a once in a generation WR over a QB with a bust potential as high as RUssell's

If you wanna continue this let's do it through pms, this is my room-mates account and I don't want half his posts to be from me.

D-Unit
08-01-2007, 05:13 PM
yeah because those multiple 4th quarter comebacks by russell were the culmination of his poor decision making right? i never once heard anybody calling to bench him, have no idea where you got that. russell has been very focused and a soft-spoken leader through OTAs up until this snag since camp. you're also assuming that johnson is going to be a big time player in the pros, that is unproven. people forget at one point gallery was considered a can't miss superstar until he played his first season. i laugh at your solution of keeping 2 mediocre qb's and letting them get "bailed" out by a rookie wr, you actually have to deliver the ball to get bailed out. porter and curry are both servicable enough to provide russell weapons if need be. also i'm not convincing myself of anything johnson could bust, he does have flaws and could have trouble finally facing elite corners in the nfl.
I know you're a Raiders fan, but open your eyes to the truth. Nobody in the world could've predicted Russell would be the first overall pick of the draft at the beginning of the season. He had one good game against ND that propelled his stock and he rode it all the way to the bank. He's got A LOT of development to do as a quarterback to make it in the NFL.

SubNoize
08-01-2007, 05:35 PM
I know you're a Raiders fan, but open your eyes to the truth. Nobody in the world could've predicted Russell would be the first overall pick of the draft at the beginning of the season. He had one good game against ND that propelled his stock and he rode it all the way to the bank. He's got A LOT of development to do as a quarterback to make it in the NFL.

you know what's funny, not comparing the two as players at all, but this is the same argument beat to death last year with Vince Young. He rode the rose bowl game to being the top QB and he was purely ability and talent and too raw, but he seemed to fair well last year. russell will be work no doubt, but he was the best choice for this franchise at their current state. as for hertha, Mccown is not average, he's slightly below and using him chucking a prayer and it actually being pulled down as an example is stupid. mccown is servicable, but it's obvious that raiders had little faith in him or walter, this is why they signed culpepper.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 06:15 PM
you know what's funny, not comparing the two as players at all, but this is the same argument beat to death last year with Vince Young. He rode the rose bowl game to being the top QB and he was purely ability and talent and too raw, but he seemed to fair well last year. russell will be work no doubt, but he was the best choice for this franchise at their current state. as for hertha, Mccown is not average, he's slightly below and using him chucking a prayer and it actually being pulled down as an example is stupid. mccown is servicable, but it's obvious that raiders had little faith in him or walter, this is why they signed culpepper.

No it's not. Vince Young's passion for the game and intensity was never questioned. And he was consistently awesome prior to the rose bowl, whereas Russell was hugely inconsistent through out his career while also having a very questionable work ethic.

McCown is average my point was worse teams than the 2007 raiders have won games with him under center before and pulled off some nice upsets. McCown to CJ is just so much better than Russel to anyone on the raiders.

SubNoize
08-01-2007, 06:32 PM
No it's not. Vince Young's passion for the game and intensity was never questioned. And he was consistently awesome prior to the rose bowl, whereas Russell was hugely inconsistent through out his career while also having a very questionable work ethic.

McCown is average my point was worse teams than the 2007 raiders have won games with him under center before and pulled off some nice upsets. McCown to CJ is just so much better than Russel to anyone on the raiders.

russell porgressed every year throughout his career so that should promote his work ethic and his passion to make strides in becoming better. people want to do nothing but bash russell because they have their misinformed opinions, russell made noise for himself before ND and seeing him on the big stage opened a lot of peoples eyes to just how good he can be, same as young.

as for your other statement, josh mccown managed to be mediocre with a wide array of talent around him on offense in AZ and was benched in favor of warner a few times. i live in AZ if you havent noticed and have had more than enough time to watch him play. those cards and lions mccown has been apart of were not nearly as inept as the 2006 raiders, so you can't compare where he's been to where he is now. mccown would not have been able to thrive with CJ if couldn't even take full advantage of Q and company. russell is a much more talented and able QB than mccown, as shown by their throws in OTAs. russell connected consistently and only time he was off was when he was long. jamarcus even lasered one so hard on the money that it put holland on IR. mccown has thrown pick after pick and floated soo many balls that they had to sign culpepper. so overall rusell was a much better choice than johnson for this team.

TheChampIsHere
08-01-2007, 06:39 PM
It's alright that they drafted Russell but what threat does he really have to throw it to? Selecting Calvin in round 1 and Trent Edwards in round 3 would've been the way to go

Porter, Curry, Zach Miller...Its not as bad as people pretend. Porter could be a pro-bowler, hes been on the cusp of being a star receiver for a while and has the talent to make the breakthrough but hasnt yet done it but thats partly cuz he has never had a good QB to throw to him since Gannon was here but it was Rice and Brown starting then. And last year was just Art Shell being a stubborn SOB. Curry aint bad, he was a real bright spot last year and Miller should be one of those QBs-best-friend type TEs. And also some guys that we might be able to bring along and turn into quality receivers like Mike Williams, Higgins, Gabriel....

For me the question isnt whether it made sense to draft Russell because it made a lot of sense to get him he had the talent to warrant the pick and was coming off a great season and we needed a franchise QB badly and had some decent weapons, WR was not nearly as big a need as QB.....but I think the question right now is and it may continue to be depending on how Calvins career turns out, Was Calvin Johnson just too good to pass on? For the Lions, the answer was yes, and they picked him despite already having a strong receiver unit. In the Raiders case, they decided their need for a QB paired with Russells incredible talent made him worth it...But at the end of the day if Johnson turns out to be a straight dominant force we might be kicking ourselves. Of course, Russell has the talent to make us forget about us passing on Calvin even if he is the HOF receiver he is predicted to be by many because Russell has the tools to be a flat out incredible QB...of course the difference is the risk factor on Russell is much bigger, but it always is with QBs.

HerthaFootballFan
08-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Porter, Curry, Zach Miller...Its not as bad as people pretend. Porter could be a pro-bowler, hes been on the cusp of being a star receiver for a while and has the talent to make the breakthrough but hasnt yet done it but thats partly cuz he has never had a good QB to throw to him since Gannon was here but it was Rice and Brown starting then. And last year was just Art Shell being a stubborn SOB. Curry aint bad, he was a real bright spot last year and Miller should be one of those QBs-best-friend type TEs. And also some guys that we might be able to bring along and turn into quality receivers like Mike Williams, Higgins, Gabriel....

I don't think there are many people calling the Oakland group terrible, I felt that Miller was the best all around TE in this years draft, curry has shown to be able to make plays and Porter had a few years of nearly 1000 yards. The problem is though that Russell is at his best when he can use all the momentum his big body helps him generate to blast the football up the field, he hasn't shown me much in college that leads me to believe he can be a great QB in the short to intermediate passing game which is where Miller and Porter are at their best.

As for Calvin the things is that the only legit question about him was whether his knees will hold up moving someone that big that fast, while Russell has many question marks, like any SEC fan will tell you. So to me I think that Russell is most likely to be remembered as the guy taken before CJ, whereas there will be QBs of Russell's caliber in the next drafts, looking at Brohm to have a big season and try to pull a Russell by going ahead of McFadden. But honestly name a WR in college who you think even has the potential to be as good as CJ.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 07:51 PM
Russell was projected as the #1 overall pick before the Notre Dame game, that game just solidified his status. His sophomore season was very inconsistent and people wanted him to be benched, but that is not true for his junior year. Also saying he just let it fly and hoped for the best is somewhat ridiculous since LSU didn't throw deep very often and a lot less than they should have considering how well Russell throws deep.

TheChampIsHere
08-01-2007, 11:56 PM
I don't think there are many people calling the Oakland group terrible, I felt that Miller was the best all around TE in this years draft, curry has shown to be able to make plays and Porter had a few years of nearly 1000 yards. The problem is though that Russell is at his best when he can use all the momentum his big body helps him generate to blast the football up the field, he hasn't shown me much in college that leads me to believe he can be a great QB in the short to intermediate passing game which is where Miller and Porter are at their best.

As for Calvin the things is that the only legit question about him was whether his knees will hold up moving someone that big that fast, while Russell has many question marks, like any SEC fan will tell you. So to me I think that Russell is most likely to be remembered as the guy taken before CJ, whereas there will be QBs of Russell's caliber in the next drafts, looking at Brohm to have a big season and try to pull a Russell by going ahead of McFadden. But honestly name a WR in college who you think even has the potential to be as good as CJ.

I dont know what youre talking about about Russell can only throw deep. Hes great at throwing frozen ropes in the intermediate passing game, he did a lot of that to Dwayne Bowe, his best receiver and in minicamps people were marveling at the tight bullets he was throwing on short and intermediate routes. Yes, he has a beast of an arm and the Raiders will need to get him some targets to let him unleash that, but he is a lot more than just that. Porter can go vertical well and is good at catching balls downfield and Higgins has the blazing speed to get behind defenses so I wouldnt be surprised if he becomes an important player in coming years, because if he can get behind defenes god knows Russell can get him in the ball.

There are great QB prospects seemingly every year and not always so much at WR and obviously Calvin is one of the best, if not the best, WR prospect weve ever seen. My other question about him is how well he can separate from NFL CBs, being as big as he is it could be a problem but maybe with his size and ability to catch the ball over people it wont be a huge issue if he can create great separation out of his cuts like Jerry Rice or Tory Holt because he can use his body to shield away defenders and his leaping ability and ball skills and whatnot to snatch the ball even if there are defenders in position to make a play.

wogitalia
08-02-2007, 01:11 AM
Russell has more mobility,

Huh? If Culpepper comes back 70% as mobile as he has been in the past then that comment is just wrong. Hard to say based on what he showed for Miami, but JR cant touch Culpepper for mobility when he was a Vike.

Green Bay Scat
08-02-2007, 01:36 AM
The mistake was not taking Matt Leinart 2 years ago. Huff was good, but the rule is if you dont have a franchise QB and theres one avaliable, take him. Leinart to Johnson? sounds good doesnt it? Im not trying to hate, but just about every raider fan was pissed they passed on home made Leinart

TheChampIsHere
08-02-2007, 01:55 AM
The mistake was not taking Matt Leinart 2 years ago. Huff was good, but the rule is if you dont have a franchise QB and theres one avaliable, take him. Leinart to Johnson? sounds good doesnt it? Im not trying to hate, but just about every raider fan was pissed they passed on home made Leinart

honestly, on draft day last year i was 100% against taking a QB unless Vince fell to us. I wanted Huff or Sims, felt our defense needed a playmaker (I think we had a record low takeaways on defense) and wanted to give Walter and Brooks a shot at excelling in the starting job, which I figured wouldnt be too hard with Moss and Porter as your wideouts, the thinking is maybe we dont need a great QB just a decent strong armed gunslinger to get the ball to our playmakers. As it turns out, our defense already had plenty of playmakers (Morrison, Asomugha, Fabian, Burgess, Schweigert), we didnt have that huge of a need at safety, and the QBs we had on our roster were absolutely dreadful. But on draft day, I thought picking Huff absolutely made sense.

So in retrospect, even though I like Huff and think he will be an excellent player for us, yes we should have taken Leinart or even Cutler. And then this year rather than taking Jamarcus we could get Calvin. I might like Jamarcus a little bit more than Leinart but not by that much, but the combo of Leinart and Calvin absolutely clobbers the combo of Jamarcus and Huff. Not to mention it would be an ideal thing to have Kiffin coming in to coach Leinart, as there would already be so much familiarity and chemistry there which is just a great thing for a young QB...But as always, hindsight is 20/20 and things would have worked out quite nice if we would have played it a little different. But I do feel that all the moves the Raiders made made a lot of sense at the time that they made them, so Im not faulting anyone.

nobodyinparticular
08-02-2007, 03:23 AM
Huh? If Culpepper comes back 70% as mobile as he has been in the past then that comment is just wrong. Hard to say based on what he showed for Miami, but JR cant touch Culpepper for mobility when he was a Vike.

Then it's a good thing we are talking about Daunte Culpepper in 2007 and not Daunte Culpepper as a Viking. With Pep's knee injury and history, it would be a bonus if he was 50% in comparison to pre-injury. In Miami he certainly was a Bledsoe-esque statue.

nobodyinparticular
08-02-2007, 03:27 AM
You people are absolutely ridiculous in talking about Huff/Russell vs. Leinart/Johnson. Are you kidding me? You are then assuming that Leinart (or Cutler for that matter) would have led the Raiders to the same record as Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter. You are also assuming that both of the QBs would have the same bright outlook on their futures after such a season.

It is absolutely ridiculous that these comments are even in play.

OzTitan
08-02-2007, 10:48 AM
Bout' to say the same thing nobodyinparticular. Plus, you change the first round, and you change the whole draft from then on out. Who knows what impact that could have had on 06 for the Raiders.

TheChampIsHere
08-02-2007, 12:07 PM
Bout' to say the same thing nobodyinparticular. Plus, you change the first round, and you change the whole draft from then on out. Who knows what impact that could have had on 06 for the Raiders.

probably not that much, we still had Art Shell and his bed and breakfast offense and the same feeble OL. I dont think having Leinart would have done a whole lot to change that godawful season. OK, sure some thing would have changed but the point is we could have taken our franchise QB last year and then we wouldnt have had to use our top pick on a franchise QB this year. And as it turns out, there were better non-QB prospects available to us this year than last year but we had to pass on em because we had backed ourselves into a corner in the need of a QB.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-02-2007, 03:27 PM
You people are absolutely ridiculous in talking about Huff/Russell vs. Leinart/Johnson. Are you kidding me? You are then assuming that Leinart (or Cutler for that matter) would have led the Raiders to the same record as Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter. You are also assuming that both of the QBs would have the same bright outlook on their futures after such a season.

It is absolutely ridiculous that these comments are even in play.

But revisionists history is so fun. If we had drafted Fitzgerald or Williams instead of Gallery, we could have spent this year's pick on Thomas! What was Al Davis thinking!?

:rolleyes:

SubNoize
08-02-2007, 03:35 PM
But revisionists history is so fun. If we had drafted Fitzgerald or Williams instead of Gallery, we could have spent this year's pick on Thomas! What was Al Davis thinking!?

:rolleyes:

Also if we never traded for Randy Moss we could have drafted Shawne Merriman, and then last year instead of Thomas Howard we could have drafted Devin Hester!

Paranoidmoonduck
08-02-2007, 03:46 PM
Also if we never traded for Randy Moss we could have drafted Shawne Merriman, and then last year instead of Thomas Howard we could have drafted Devin Hester!

And if we had only drafted Ed Reed instead of Philip Buchanon. Man, we'd be kicking ass.

SubNoize
08-02-2007, 03:47 PM
And if we had only drafted Ed Reed instead of Philip Buchanon. Man, we'd be kicking ass.

I know DAMN THAT AL DAVIS!!!!

TheChampIsHere
08-02-2007, 05:15 PM
obviously you guys are taking it too far...

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and Ive actually agreed with Davis' decisions when he made them so Im no position to criticize. But Al Davis has already admitted he made a mistake passing on Leinart and pretty much the point is when you have the chance to snag a franchise QB of the caliber of Leinart with the 7th pick, you should do it. Of course its ridiculous to go back and think about every draft bust we could have avoided and every steal we coulda had, and Im personally over the whole Leinart deal, because Im happy with the team the Raiders have now.

but LOL, since you guys brought it up and I started to salivate imagine if we never dealt for Randy Moss, used the pick on Merriman, never picked Gallery and instead picked Fitzgerald, picked Leinart and Marcus McNeil (with our 2nd rounder lol) last year and then pick up AP this year....oh and we also picked Ed Reed instead of Buchanon....Man we'd be winnin the superbowl every year

ks_perfection
08-02-2007, 06:36 PM
If Davis didn't trade for Moss who would he actually have drafted at 7? Troy Williamson does seem like the burner that Davis would want.