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Fitzgerald11
07-31-2007, 08:55 PM
One first rounder and two second rounders made the Pro Bowl. DeMeco Ryans, the thirty-third overall pick, finished second in the NFL with 156 tackles and won DROY.

These are all the facts I can think of off the top of my head. Please add more. I want this to be a reference for information and learn as much as possible about the '06 rookies.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-31-2007, 08:57 PM
Jay Cutler became the first QB since Marino(I think) to throw multiple TDs in his first four appearances.

TitleTown088
07-31-2007, 09:18 PM
The 2006 NFL draft brought the Pack , well, Back.

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2007, 09:21 PM
The 2006 NFL Draft landed the Falcons the NFL's fastest RB in the third round.

remix 6
07-31-2007, 09:23 PM
The 2006 NFL Draft landed the Falcons the NFL's fastest RB in the third round.

u dont have Reggie Bush or Maroney

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2007, 09:28 PM
I won't get into this about Reggie/ Norwood, but Maroney and Norwood's speed is not really debatable. I think they took his 4 minute highlight video off of youtube, but it clearly shows his speed is amazing.

remix 6
07-31-2007, 09:33 PM
I won't get into this about Reggie/ Norwood, but Maroney and Norwood's speed is not really debatable. I think they took his 4 minute highlight video off of youtube, but it clearly shows his speed is amazing.

so is Maroney's..

hes extremely explosive and has deep speed

i know Maroney ran a 4.48 or something but hes much faster than that.

u should remember preseason last year..both backs dominated and looked extra fast

KILLERSANTA
07-31-2007, 10:26 PM
so is Maroney's..

hes extremely explosive and has deep speed

i know Maroney ran a 4.48 or something but hes much faster than that.

u should remember preseason last year..both backs dominated and looked extra fast

Are you really saying Maroney is faster then Bush and Norwood?

draftguru151
07-31-2007, 10:34 PM
Maroney definitely isn't a top 2 fastest RB from that draft. But Norwood isn't the fastest from that draft or in the NFL either.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 10:43 PM
The 2006 NFL Draft landed the Falcons the NFL's fastest RB in the third round.

Absolute garbage. Tony Hunt got picked this year in the third :) Just kidding, but Norwood is not faster than Reggie.

CC.SD
07-31-2007, 10:44 PM
Marcus McNeill busted out as a pro bowl Left Tackle in his rookie year after slipping to the 50th pick. It took San Diego approximately ten seconds to get their card to the podium in the second round.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 10:47 PM
Marcus McNeill busted out as a pro bowl Left Tackle in his rookie year after slipping to the 50th pick. It took San Diego approximately ten seconds to get their card to the podium in the second round.

The Buffalo Bills provided two "What the ****" moves in the first round alone, selecting S Donte Whitner from Ohio State and DT John McCargo from North Carolina State. Whitner was slated as a late first early second type of player and McCargo was supposed to be around late 2, early 3.

Flyboy
07-31-2007, 10:53 PM
The Saints... some guy in the 7th round that was nearly the ROY before injuries.

Bearsfan123
07-31-2007, 11:04 PM
The Bears got an All-Pro Return Man in Devin Hester in late round 2. Who set an NFL record of 6 return touchdowns in his rookie season. He also returned the opening kick of the super bowl for a td.

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2007, 11:11 PM
Norwood is faster. Reggie is more agile. I'll leave it at that.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 11:14 PM
Norwood is faster. Reggie is more agile. I'll leave it at that.

Bull ****..... Reggie ran a 4.33 at his Pro Day and said he was "disappointed" with that. Enough with the homerism. Norwood clocked in at 4.4 flat at the Combine.

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2007, 11:19 PM
It's not homerism. I've seen plays in the NFL from Norwood speed wise I have not seen from Reggie. And a proday 4.33? That IS disappointing. That is at least the equivelent of a 4.4 at the combine. NFL.com says Norwood ran a 4.40. Rivals says he ran a 4.33 at the NFL combine. Wikipedia says 4.37. Atlanta Falcons.com says 4.33. Prospect profiles (NFL.com) says4.37 verified.

bearsfan_51
07-31-2007, 11:19 PM
Devin Hester is f'n sweet, but has the public speaking skills of a wino.

Sniper
07-31-2007, 11:25 PM
Devin Hester is f'n sweet, but has the public speaking skills of a wino.

That will come in time.....until then I expect something outrageous from him this year. I'm predicting 1 PR TD, 3 KR TD, 3 receiving and 3 rushing. He's gonna be good.

YAYareaRB
07-31-2007, 11:27 PM
It's not homerism. I've seen plays in the NFL from Norwood speed wise I have not seen from Reggie. And a proday 4.33? That IS disappointing. That is at least the equivelent of a 4.4 at the combine. NFL.com says Norwood ran a 4.40. Rivals says he ran a 4.33 at the NFL combine. Wikipedia says 4.37. Atlanta Falcons.com says 4.33. Prospect profiles (NFL.com) says4.37 verified.

How is that equivalent to a combine 4.4 .. If he runs a 4.33 at a pro day.. HE RUNS A 4.3. You're a homer if you think Norwood is faster and more explosive than Bush. Wikipedia is edited information, probably edited BY YOU! I couldn't find the rivals link so I'll take your word for it. But timed speed is TOTALLY different from field speed and for that I'll give Reggie the nod.

Flyboy
07-31-2007, 11:28 PM
I think Bush is faster than Norwood, but it definitely ain't by much...

Race for the Heisman
07-31-2007, 11:40 PM
To be totally fair, most of these aren't facts. Whether with regards to the Packers (opinion), fastest running back (track speed vs football speed, etc.), or the Colston comment. If the minutes/games/statistics contributed by rookies indicated they played a substantial part in Green Bay's improvement from 4-12 (and since when is 8-8 back?) to .500, or had it been stated that despite missing essentially 3 games (not sure on the number exactly), the 252nd pick of the draft, Marques Colston, tied for second place in OROY polling, those would be facts. With that said:

Joseph Addai led all rookie running backs with 1,081 rushing yards without starting a single game. He is the only running back in NFL history to break the 1,000 yard mark without a single start.

Devin Hester tied the record for longest return in the history of the sport with a 108-yard return of a missed field goal by Giants' kicker Jay Feely.
He also scored a record 6 return touchdowns during the regular season, and become the first player to ever return the opening kickoff of the Superbowl back for a touchdown.

Go_Eagles77
07-31-2007, 11:54 PM
Norwood is faster. Reggie is more agile. I'll leave it at that.

Don't you ever play Madden? :D

draftguru151
07-31-2007, 11:56 PM
The Buffalo Bills provided two "What the ****" moves in the first round alone, selecting S Donte Whitner from Ohio State and DT John McCargo from North Carolina State. Whitner was slated as a late first early second type of player and McCargo was supposed to be around late 2, early 3.

Eh, Whitner was projected at worst a early 20s pick and I doubt he would have fallen past Miami. Plus there were rumors than Detroit would have taken him as well. McCargo was also a solid early 2nd round pick (I had him around 35 or so) and while he was a bit of a reach calling him a early 3rd rounder isn't correct.

dcarey20
07-31-2007, 11:59 PM
The Ravens picked up the top safety from the draft in the 5th round.

PoopSandwich
08-01-2007, 12:07 AM
The shocking news of the 2006 draft is that the Browns found good players.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 12:12 AM
Bull ****..... Reggie ran a 4.33 at his Pro Day and said he was "disappointed" with that. Enough with the homerism. Norwood clocked in at 4.4 flat at the Combine.

Pro Day times are always kicked up a notch by the scouts.

DaBears9654
08-01-2007, 12:21 AM
Bears 5th rounder Mark Anderson's a stud!

GB12
08-01-2007, 12:24 AM
The 2006 NFL Draft landed the Falcons the NFL's fastest RB in the third round.

u dont have Reggie Bush or Maroney

You mean Michael Bennet

Philliez01
08-01-2007, 12:26 AM
Joseph Addai rushed for the most yards out of any rookie in 2006. That's about all I can recall.

Fitzgerald11
08-01-2007, 12:33 AM
Bears 5th rounder Mark Anderson's a stud!

There was a lot of good day two picks. The Saints got two of them in Colston and Evans.

Sniper
08-01-2007, 12:36 AM
Joseph Addai rushed for the most yards out of any rookie in 2006. That's about all I can recall.

Weren't Reggie Bush's 88 receptions the most for a rookie running back? I could be wrong.

TitleTown088
08-01-2007, 01:36 AM
Devin Hester is f'n sweet, but has the public speaking skills of a wino.



You mean the speaking skills of a mute? Most winos are half way intelligent. They may slur their words... but at leased they're words.

Sniper
08-01-2007, 01:58 AM
You mean the speaking skills of a mute? Most winos are half way intelligent. They may slur their words... but at leased they're words.

At least he's still got that whole football thing going on for him :)

yourfavestoner
08-01-2007, 04:09 AM
The Jacksonville Jaguars drafted a direct descendant of Jesus in Maurice Jones-Drew.

Ewing
08-01-2007, 08:59 AM
It's not homerism.

Yes, it is. Bush is the most explosive player in the NFL, he can score from anywhere on the field on any play. You honestly think Norwood is even Bush's league when it comes to speed and agility? This would be like me saying that LenDale White is the best power back in football. It's pure homerism.

ncst8fan83
08-01-2007, 09:07 AM
Yes, it is. Bush is the most explosive player in the NFL, he can score from anywhere on the field on any play. You honestly think Norwood is even Bush's league when it comes to speed and agility? This would be like me saying that LenDale White is the best power back in football. It's pure homerism.

LT says hello

Ewing
08-01-2007, 09:12 AM
LT says hello

The Chargers say best offensive line.

neko4
08-01-2007, 09:46 AM
4 Good Starters:
AJ Hawk
Greg Jennings
Daryn Colledge
Jason Spitz

2 Quaility Backups:
Tony Moll
Abdul Hodge

Shiver
08-01-2007, 11:30 AM
Yes, it is. Bush is the most explosive player in the NFL, he can score from anywhere on the field on any play. You honestly think Norwood is even Bush's league when it comes to speed and agility? This would be like me saying that LenDale White is the best power back in football. It's pure homerism.

He said Norwood was the fastest "Running Back" from the class. When Reggie Bush becomes a RB, let me know. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ewing
08-01-2007, 11:37 AM
He said Norwood was the fastest "Running Back" from the class. When Reggie Bush becomes a RB, let me know. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reggie Bush had more rushing touchdowns last year than Jerious Norwood.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 11:45 AM
By "rushing touchdowns" you are including the end around plays from the WR position, but I digress. That statement was meant to be tongue in cheek, as I would rather not get into any debate.

remix 6
08-01-2007, 11:50 AM
FACT #1

-Maroney has the best stiff arm in the class

Ewing
08-01-2007, 11:56 AM
By "rushing touchdowns" you are including the end around plays from the WR position, but I digress. That statement was meant to be tongue in cheek, as I would rather not get into any debate.

Oh but I would like to get into a debate. Your constant bashing of Reggie Bush is getting old. I don't understand why you dislike the guy so much. Honestly, can you think of five guys in the NFL with more pure talent? Everyone knew it was going to take time when he came into the league. Would you seriously rather have Jerious Norwood over Reggie Bush?

Hines
08-01-2007, 11:57 AM
santonio holmes was the best reciever in this class not named marques colston

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:08 PM
Oh but I would like to get into a debate. Your constant bashing of Reggie Bush is getting old. I don't understand why you dislike the guy so much. Honestly, can you think of five guys in the NFL with more pure talent? Everyone knew it was going to take time when he came into the league. Would you seriously rather have Jerious Norwood over Reggie Bush?

Julius Peppers, Adalius Thomas, Vince Young, Randy Moss, LaDanian Tomlinson, Mike Vick, Shawne Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Mo Drew, Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson (at one point), Jevon Kearse (at one point), Devin Hester, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Antonio Gates, Kellen Winslow, Jason Taylor, Manny Lawson.

I'm sure you can find 5 in that list. Also, you said talent but I'm sure you meant athleticism. If you really meant talent, then I could just simply list every elite player in the NFL, because Bush isn't elite.

Ewing
08-01-2007, 12:09 PM
Julius Peppers, Adalius Thomas, Vince Young, Randy Moss, LaDanian Tomlinson, Mike Vick, Shawne Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Mo Drew, Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson (at one point), Jevon Kearse (at one point), Devin Hester, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Antonio Gates, Kellen Winslow, Jason Taylor, Manny Lawson.

I said in the NFL not in court.

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:12 PM
which has what to do with what? as far as i know, he hasn't been kicked out of the league yet.

It's much easier for him to make a joke rather than defend his position. Let him have his cheap laugh.

Hines
08-01-2007, 12:13 PM
It's much easier for him to make a joke rather than defend his position. Let him have his cheap laugh.

i hate playing against vick because he can beat you with his arm as well..if his recievers could actually catch he would be better..

no love
08-01-2007, 12:16 PM
It's not homerism. I've seen plays in the NFL from Norwood speed wise I have not seen from Reggie. And a proday 4.33? That IS disappointing. That is at least the equivelent of a 4.4 at the combine. NFL.com says Norwood ran a 4.40. Rivals says he ran a 4.33 at the NFL combine. Wikipedia says 4.37. Atlanta Falcons.com says 4.33. Prospect profiles (NFL.com) says4.37 verified.

Then you have not been watching Reggie close enough. He has made some eye opening plays that demonstrated his speed, don't hate just because they are not on youtube. And comparing 40 times that are so similar does not really say all that much, Reggie Bush plays faster than Norwood, he has better acceleration and both players have the pure speed to not get caught from behind.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:16 PM
I don't see how you can even mention Manny Lawson in a discussion about pure talent compared to Reggie Bush.

Hines
08-01-2007, 12:16 PM
I doubt see how you can even mention Manny Lawson in a discussion about pure talent compared to Reggie Bush.

i think they mean athletic ability

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Ewing's exact words were pure talent, he never mentioned athletic ability.

no love
08-01-2007, 12:21 PM
Fact:
49ers drafted the most athletically gifted prospects at two respective positions
TE Vernon Davis
LB Manny Lawson

Hines
08-01-2007, 12:25 PM
fact:

steelers drafted two future playmakers and potentially three

playmakers:
santonio holmes
anthony smith

potential playmaker:
willie ried on punt returners

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:26 PM
Fact:
49ers drafted the most athletically gifted prospects at two respective positions
TE Vernon Davis
LB Manny Lawson

Through Vernon Davis on my list as well.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:28 PM
i don't know how you can dispute anything involving something as ephermeral as "pure talent".

also, please read:



he sort of, you know, addressed that.

Ward mentioned athleticism but Ewing didn't, Ewing's exact words were pure talent and athleticism isn't the same thing as pure talent.

Pure talent, IMO is the level of a players potential not only because of his athleticism but because of his on field talents. From a pure talent aspect to say Manny Lawson is on the same level as Reggie Bush is ridiculous. I don't think there was a bigger fan of Lawson last draft than me, but that is just plain stupid.

Turtlepower
08-01-2007, 12:29 PM
This is John Elway's rookie season stats:

Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT
123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14

He only played in 11 games, but I'm sure people were doubting him just as much as people are doubting Reggie Bush, but you can't deny that he helped the Saints get to where they are today.

Ewing
08-01-2007, 12:29 PM
Ward mentioned athleticism but Ewing didn't, Ewing's exact words were pure talent and athleticism isn't the same thing as pure talent.

Pure talent, IMO is the level of a players potential not only because of his athleticism but because of his on field talents. From a pure talent aspect to say Manny Lawson is on the same level as Reggie Bush is ridiculous. I don't think there was a bigger fan of Lawson last draft than me, but that is just plain stupid.

Thank you, DG. That's what I meant but couldn't put it into words.

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:29 PM
Ward mentioned athleticism but Ewing didn't, Ewing's exact words were pure talent and athleticism isn't the same thing as pure talent.

Pure talent, IMO is the level of a players potential not only because of his athleticism but because of his on field talents. From a pure talent aspect to say Manny Lawson is on the same level as Reggie Bush is ridiculous. I don't think there was a bigger fan of Lawson last draft than me, but that is just plain stupid.

You understand that Ewing is wrong either way, and you're just arguing semantics?

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:33 PM
You understand that Ewing is wrong either way, and you're just arguing semantics?

I'm not saying Reggie Bush is definitely a top 5 most pure talented player in the league but he is without a doubt in the debate, and it would be hard for me to keep him out of the top 5.

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:35 PM
I'm not saying Reggie Bush is definitely a top 5 most pure talented player in the league but he is without a doubt in the debate, and it would be hard for me to keep him out of the top 5.

He's not even top 25, and if I wanted to make a day of this ridiculousness, top 50.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 12:35 PM
you cannot define pure talent. period. so to argue that manny lawson does NOT potentially have more "pure talent" than bush is equally ridiculous. again, pure talent is a worthless quantifier used by someone who can't think of an actual, provable argument. it's an easy way out of an argument because the argument will inevitably devolve into a "yes he is" "no he's not" thing. so let's move on. arguing pure talent is stupid and a waste of time. if you want to argue about bush, argue about something that's actually quantifiable in some way.

I think I just did define pure talent, Ward's definition might not be the same as mine, but to put Lawson with Bush in my definition is ridiculous. Maybe in Ward's definition of pure talent it just means athleticism, then without a doubt Lawson should be up there.

Ward
08-01-2007, 12:36 PM
I think I just did define pure talent, Ward's definition might not be the same as mine, but to put Lawson with Bush in my definition is ridiculous. Maybe in Ward's definition of pure talent it just means athleticism, then without a doubt Lawson should be up there.

I clearly stated that athleticism and talent are two different things. Reggie Bush is one of the most athletic players in the league, probably top 10-15. Reggie Bush is NOT one of the most talented players in the league.

Also, you said talent but I'm sure you meant athleticism. If you really meant talent, then I could just simply list every elite player in the NFL, because Bush isn't elite.

skinzzfan25
08-01-2007, 12:39 PM
Fact:

Skins probably messed this draft up too ;)

Although Rocky did look good last game against the Giants, and has been impressing coaches in camp.

remix 6
08-01-2007, 12:43 PM
Fact:

Skins probably messed this draft up too ;)

Although Rocky did look good last game against the Giants, and has been impressing coaches in camp.

redskins had a draft?

*i like Rocky..hes from DA U*

soybean
08-01-2007, 12:44 PM
"pure talent is the level of a player's talent", to paraphrase. that's not a definition, that's a redundant statement. because you'll likely whine that i misquoted, you essentially said:

potential=(talent+athleticism)
pure talent = potential
thus
pure talent = talent+athleticism

like i said. you can't even define pure talent, so you have no business arguing about it.

conversely, i could argue that, using your definition, peyton manning has almost no "pure talent", as the potential for him to get better is no longer really relevant and because he's not overly athletic.

again. this is a stupid argument invented so someone could support bush without feeling the obligation to actually "prove" anything.

yet, you're calling out DG while defending Ward, when he is doing the exact same thing?

if you can't define pure talent, you can't define "elite" either.

Billingsley26
08-01-2007, 01:00 PM
"pure talent is the level of a player's talent", to paraphrase. that's not a definition, that's a redundant statement. because you'll likely whine that i misquoted, you essentially said:

potential=(talent+athleticism)
pure talent = potential
thus
pure talent = talent+athleticism

like i said. you can't even define pure talent, so you have no business arguing about it.

conversely, i could argue that, using your definition, peyton manning has almost no "pure talent", as the potential for him to get better is no longer really relevant and because he's not overly athletic.

again. this is a stupid argument invented so someone could support bush without feeling the obligation to actually "prove" anything.

njx9, I cn honestly say that for the 2nd time in about a year, I have agreed with you on something!

Ward
08-01-2007, 01:00 PM
let me know when someone responds to this thread who's actually bothered to read some part of it.

This is what's insane. Read what Ewing said, then me, then all the others. I don't think most of us disagree here.

cardsalltheway
08-01-2007, 01:08 PM
This is John Elway's rookie season stats:

Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT
123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14

He only played in 11 games, but I'm sure people were doubting him just as much as people are doubting Reggie Bush, but you can't deny that he helped the Saints get to where they are today.

Since when did quarterbacks and runningbacks develop at the same rate?

soybean
08-01-2007, 01:09 PM
double post.

soybean
08-01-2007, 01:10 PM
what the hell do pure talent and elite have to do with each other? i can absolutely define and call out elite players. that's completely unrelated.

also, ward suggested that what ewing was talking about was athleticism.

let me know when someone responds to this thread who's actually bothered to read some part of it.

I'll answer this quick before i get off topic. No, you can't. It's the same recipe for disaster as pure talent. It's all opinion based. IE: we may both agree that peyton and LT are elite players but others may also think vince young, jay cutler etc. are elite. You may think T.O. is an elite receiver but others can look at his drops and argue he isn't. It's the same thing with "pure talent"


I'm not saying Reggie Bush is definitely a top 5 most pure talented player in the league but he is without a doubt in the debate, and it would be hard for me to keep him out of the top 5.

He's not even top 25, and if I wanted to make a day of this ridiculousness, top 50.

seems like he IS arguing pure talent. You can't just read his first post and pretend he's free of blame.

checkmate, njx.

countdown to insult in...
5...
4...
3...
2...
1...

Billingsley26
08-01-2007, 01:10 PM
seems like he IS arguing pure talent. You can't just read his first post and pretend he's free of blame.

checkmate, njx.

countdown to insult in...
5...
4...
3...
2...
1...

hahaha, one of the best posts ive ever seen!

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Examples of facts:

- The first round of the 2006 NFL draft saw 3 QBs, 4 RBs, 1 WR, 2 TEs, 1 OT, 1 OG, 1 OC, 3 DEs, 3 DTs, 6 LBs, 7 DBs, 0 Ks, and 0 Ps drafted.

- 8 rookies participated in Super Bowl XLI, 3 of whom (Joseph Addai, Antoine Bethea, Danieal Manning) were starters. 5 rookies who participated were Colts, 3 were Bears.

- Only two rookies caught 50 or more balls, both were New Orleans Saints (Reggie Bush, Marques Colston).

- Only one rookie rushed for over 1000 yards (Joseph Addai), and only one rookie had over 10 rushing TDs (Maurice Jones-Drew). Both played in the AFC South.

Examples of opinions:

- Marques Colston was the best WR of the class.

- Marcus McNeill was the biggest steal of the draft.

- The Detroit Lions had the best draft class.

- The New England Patriots had the worst draft class.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Oh but I would like to get into a debate. Your constant bashing of Reggie Bush is getting old. I don't understand why you dislike the guy so much. Honestly, can you think of five guys in the NFL with more pure talent? Everyone knew it was going to take time when he came into the league. Would you seriously rather have Jerious Norwood over Reggie Bush?

Here are my responses:

1. No, I would not take Jerious Norwood over Reggie Bush. Reggie Bush is the better player; however, it isn't out of the question that Norwood is in the same class speed wise. Even the Saints fan said as much.

2. I don't "dislike" him. I just think he's been vastly overrated, when he hasn't been that great on the NFL level. I will give him his due when he is at least as good as Brian Westbrook, which would require quite a step up. He is hyped to be this explosive playmaker and he cannot even get 20+ yard runs in an entire season. Reggie Bush cannot even outperform Maurice Jones-Drew. He needs to do that before he deserves the treatment he's received. Jones-Drew is the vastly superior player.

3. As for talent, I can name far more than five. Ward's list is pretty good. Reggie Bush isn't even the prototype for his position, if he has one, because he's too small. LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson are the ideal. They just had small issues that kept them down as draft prospects, but based solely on ability I would take them over Bush.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 01:38 PM
Examples of facts:

- The first round of the 2006 NFL draft saw 3 QBs, 4 RBs, 1 WR, 2 TEs, 1 OT, 1 OG, 1 OC, 3 DEs, 3 DTs, 6 LBs, 7 DBs, 0 Ks, and 0 Ps drafted.

- 8 rookies participated in Super Bowl XLI, 3 of whom (Joseph Addai, Antoine Bethea, Danieal Manning) were starters. 5 rookies who participated were Colts, 3 were Bears.

- Only two rookies caught 50 or more balls, both were New Orleans Saints (Reggie Bush, Marques Colston).

- Only one rookie rushed for over 1000 yards (Joseph Addai), and only one rookie had over 10 rushing TDs (Maurice Jones-Drew). Both played in the AFC South.

Examples of opinions:

- Marques Colston was the best WR of the class.

- Marcus McNeill was the biggest steal of the draft.

- The Detroit Lions had the best draft class.

- The New England Patriots had the worst draft class.

You wouldn't think you would need to inform people what constitutes a "fact," and what constitutes an "opinion." It's kinda sad.

Ward
08-01-2007, 01:42 PM
it frankly disgusts me that certain users heard about the "reputation" i have for being angry and for disagreeing with people and have somehow translated it into "he attacks everyone and insults everyone". it's not my fault nor my problem that being proven wrong in an argument makes you feel like your intelligence has been insulted. and please, pull out the tired "i don't want to wade through all your posts" garbage. prove me right yet again by utterly failing to back up this "point". get a grip, i'm sick of users like you posting this garbage without any back-up whatsoever.

Brilliant. I can't rep some of these posts enough.

UKfan
08-01-2007, 01:47 PM
but if i really really believe a player on my favorite team is good, isn't that fact?

No njx it isn't, haven't you learned anything in this thread? :D

Billingsley26
08-01-2007, 01:48 PM
quote me making three personal attacks ever. can't? then take this childish crap elsewhere. it frankly disgusts me that certain users heard about the "reputation" i have for being angry and for disagreeing with people and have somehow translated it into "he attacks everyone and insults everyone". it's not my fault nor my problem that being proven wrong in an argument makes you feel like your intelligence has been insulted. and please, pull out the tired "i don't want to wade through all your posts" garbage. prove me right yet again by utterly failing to back up this "point". get a grip, i'm sick of users like you posting this garbage without any back-up whatsoever.

You know, I used to be just like this. njx9, would point things out in me and I would take them personally and then fire out attacks back at him. We have had our share of disagreements that haven ended pretty, but he may lead on tough but he makes very valid points. I understand exactly and I cant get enough of this post. When I used to post I never really looked into things and just wrote off the top of my head, but I can now back up my points and give proof to them. That is what people on this board need to realize and start doing.

UKfan
08-01-2007, 01:50 PM
crap. where's chris... i'm going to have to break it to him gently.

Rather you than me, that's all I am saying :eek:

Geo
08-01-2007, 01:52 PM
You wouldn't think you would need to inform people what constitutes a "fact," and what constitutes an "opinion." It's kinda sad.
Which is why I despise this thread with a passion.

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 01:53 PM
You wouldn't think you would need to inform people what constitutes a "fact," and what constitutes an "opinion." It's kinda sad.

It is, but maybe it will stop at least one or two people from stating an opinion as fact. If it does, then it's at least a small success. I also found a couple of those facts (like the rookie receptions/Saints thing) quite interesting.

Geo
08-01-2007, 02:09 PM
I'm positive I read/heard that Bush and Colston set a league record for receptions (158) by a pair of rookies on the same team, although I can't find an immediate link at the moment.

Bush did in fact set an NFL record for receptions (88) by a rookie runningback. link (http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Roster/People/Reggie%20Bush.aspx)

T-RICH49
08-01-2007, 02:51 PM
The Chiefs found a gem in 7th round pick Jarrad Page

keylime_5
08-01-2007, 03:05 PM
So far the best pass rusher from that draft is Kam Wimbley. Jay Cutler is gonna be a superstar and regarding the controversial Donte Whitner pick, Buffalo will be laughing all the way to the bank

Turtlepower
08-01-2007, 03:07 PM
So far the best pass rusher from that draft is Kam Wimbley. Jay Cutler is gonna be a superstar and regarding the controversial Donte Whitner pick, Buffalo will be laughing all the way to the bank

Then people will mention the McCargo pick to them...

Hines
08-01-2007, 03:10 PM
heres a fact.....reggie bush was a steal at number 2 or he shouldve went number 1

PACKmanN
08-01-2007, 03:13 PM
Fact- The Packers drafted the hardest worker in the draft, AJ Hawk :)

Shiver
08-01-2007, 03:18 PM
Fact - No OLB was better at defeating the run than Browns rookie Kamerion Wimbley.

Source: Pro Football Prospectus 2007

Shiver
08-01-2007, 03:19 PM
heres a fact.....reggie bush was a steal at number 2 or he shouldve went number 1

That definitely is not a fact. I thought, and still think, that the Texans made the right pick between Williams and Bush; though I think they should have taken Vince Young instead of extending David Carr.

Geo
08-01-2007, 03:20 PM
That's awesome. I absolutely love Wimbley as well, what a stud.

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 03:22 PM
The Chiefs found a gem in 7th round pick Jarrad Page

heres a fact.....reggie bush was a steal at number 2 or he shouldve went number 1

Come on, seriously?

Examples of opinions:

- Marcus McNeill was the biggest steal of the draft.

So far the best pass rusher from that draft is Kam Wimbley. Jay Cutler is gonna be a superstar and regarding the controversial Donte Whitner pick, Buffalo will be laughing all the way to the bank

Ugh...

Examples of opinions:

- Marques Colston was the best WR of the class.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 03:23 PM
That's awesome. I absolutely love Wimbley as well, what a stud.

I said last year that he should have won DROTY. Both he and Demeco Ryans were awesome last year.

awfullyquiet
08-01-2007, 03:28 PM
njx ftw.

no one is a steal at number two.
i.e. Calvin Johnson?

Paranoidmoonduck
08-01-2007, 03:32 PM
i keep wondering if anyone will ever actually bother trying to figure out what the word "fact" means. what a useless collection of opinions. why did any of you even bother hitting post?

Fact: The only fact that is factual is that Michael Huff is awesome. Fact.

GB12
08-01-2007, 03:35 PM
Come on, seriously?





Ugh...

It's not worth the effort, just let it go.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-01-2007, 03:37 PM
the raiders are all ugly and their most of their fans are recent prison escapees.

especially NIP and Crow. well. maybe only NIP.

It isn't true unless I see the word fact there somewhere. You gotta do it like this:

All Donkey fans are actually bigfoots that wandered out of the rockies, shaved, and headed for Denver. You can identify a Donkey fan by his sloping brow, his hairy knuckles, and his love of the original bigfoot, John Elway. Fact.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-01-2007, 03:52 PM
i figured NIP's arrest record was accepted fact without needing to restate it.

ugh. fine.

raiders fans may all be ugly, homeless, drunk ex-convicts, but at least they're not chargers fans. fact.

You'll get no quarrel from me there.

no love
08-01-2007, 04:25 PM
It isn't true unless I see the word fact there somewhere. You gotta do it like this:

All Donkey fans are actually bigfoots that wandered out of the rockies, shaved, and headed for Denver. You can identify a Donkey fan by his sloping brow, his hairy knuckles, and his love of the original bigfoot, John Elway. Fact.

LOL Word. FACT.

zoinks
08-01-2007, 04:26 PM
It seems to me a lot of these so-called "facts" are open to debate....and as such, are not facts at all.

Cold hard facts are irrefutable truths; even those who dislike the facts cannot disagree with them.

For example, as a Titans fan, I firmly believe that Vince Young is the most exciting player in the NFL. However, Charger fans are much more excited by LT....Saints fans prefer Reggie Bush...Jags fans love MJD....so my statement is open to debate, and is therefore not fact, but opinion.

Here are examples of FACTS....

Vince Young was the third overall pick in the NFL 2006 draft. (No arguing that).

In 2006, Vince Young led all rookie QB's with 12 TD passes. (No arguing that, either).

He also led all NFL rookies in total TD's (19 TD's.....12 passing, 7 rushing).

In 13 games, Vince Young set several NFL records including....
- most rushing yards by a rookie QB (522)
- most 4th quarter comeback victories by a rookie QB (4)
- biggest comeback victory by a rookie QB (24 pts).

Cold, hard facts.

:D

Sniper
08-01-2007, 04:49 PM
Since when did quarterbacks and runningbacks develop at the same rate?

Some guy named Tomlinson on San Diego had 3.6 ypc as a rookie. Has anyone heard from this character lately?

Shiver
08-01-2007, 05:04 PM
Some guy named Tomlinson on San Diego had 3.6 ypc as a rookie. Has anyone heard from this character lately?

LaDainian Tomlinson played as the workhorse on a lousy team, with no help around him. Reggie Bush played in a spell role on the best offense in football, while being outclassed by Deuce McAllister behind the same O-Line. There is an immense difference between those two situations.

Why is it so hard for people to realize that Bush had a lousy year as a runner? Or that he was outperformed by Maurice Jones-Drew? It isn't blasphemous. All the talk that he is comparable to LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, etc. is the reason why I have to voice my opinion. It's ludicrous to anoint him at this point.

Geo
08-01-2007, 05:11 PM
In 2001, rookie LDT out of TCU started all 16 games for a bad San Diego Chargers team, carrying the ball 339 times for 1,236 rushing yards and 10 touchdowns as well as making 59 catches for 367 yards.

Head coach Marty Schottenheimer and offensive coordinator Cam Cameron joined in 2002, fyi.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-01-2007, 05:24 PM
The Jacksonville Jaguars drafted a direct descendant of Jesus in Maurice Jones-Drew.

It's true, Cutler IS Mo Drew's daddy.

soybean
08-01-2007, 05:32 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson played as the workhorse on a lousy team, with no help around him. Reggie Bush played in a spell role on the best offense in football, while being outclassed by Deuce McAllister behind the same O-Line. There is an immense difference between those two situations.

Why is it so hard for people to realize that Bush had a lousy year as a runner? Or that he was outperformed by Maurice Jones-Drew? It isn't blasphemous. All the talk that he is comparable to LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, etc. is the reason why I have to voice my opinion. It's ludicrous to anoint him at this point.

In all fairness, he earned the his hype. I know you and many others don't agree with his hype and think he is and was overrated as a running back but there was at least a reason he was overrated. He raped the college competition and when he did struggle, he still did alright. He was strong, he was fast, a little short but there was no reason to believe he wouldn't do alright in the league. well, back then. Hindsight is 20/20 and we could say NOW that he dances too much, wasn't patient etc.

Now whether he pans out as a running back or never pans out is all speculation at this point.

Flyboy
08-01-2007, 05:32 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson played as the workhorse on a lousy team, with no help around him. Reggie Bush played in a spell role on the best offense in football, while being outclassed by Deuce McAllister behind the same O-Line. There is an immense difference between those two situations.

Why is it so hard for people to realize that Bush had a lousy year as a runner? Or that he was outperformed by Maurice Jones-Drew? It isn't blasphemous. All the talk that he is comparable to LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, etc. is the reason why I have to voice my opinion. It's ludicrous to anoint him at this point.

Hater. ;)

Flyboy
08-01-2007, 05:34 PM
Hindsight is 20/20 and we could say NOW that he dances too much, wasn't patient etc.

People forget that he's a just a rookie as well. If Bush improves on being a runningback (and if anyone has tracked what he's done in offseason training & our training camp he has) as well as still be able to make plays as a flanker/WR.... then.. aw, screw it. I'm at work and don't have get into a huge debate.

Note: That post wasn't aimed at you or Shiver.

soybean
08-01-2007, 05:41 PM
People forget that he's a just a rookie as well. If Bush improves on being a runningback (and if anyone has tracked what he's done in offseason training & our training camp he has) as well as still be able to make plays as a flanker/WR.... then.. aw, screw it. I'm at work and don't have get into a huge debate.

Note: That post wasn't aimed at you or Shiver.

i love bush, im just trying to take an objective view. :D

Shiver
08-01-2007, 05:42 PM
People forget that he's a just a rookie as well. If Bush improves on being a runningback (and if anyone has tracked what he's done in offseason training & our training camp he has) as well as still be able to make plays as a flanker/WR.... then.. aw, screw it. I'm at work and don't have get into a huge debate.

Note: That post wasn't aimed at you or Shiver.


All I ask is that people should wait for that improvement as a runner before they anoint him. I am not saying, nor have ever said, that he will not improve. I just need to see it first. I don't see why my stance is so controversial. Just because I'm not drinking the "Reggie Bush is the next *insert all time great here*" kool-aid? That's ridiculous.

Billingsley26
08-01-2007, 05:45 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson played as the workhorse on a lousy team, with no help around him. Reggie Bush played in a spell role on the best offense in football, while being outclassed by Deuce McAllister behind the same O-Line. There is an immense difference between those two situations.

Why is it so hard for people to realize that Bush had a lousy year as a runner? Or that he was outperformed by Maurice Jones-Drew? It isn't blasphemous. All the talk that he is comparable to LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, etc. is the reason why I have to voice my opinion. It's ludicrous to anoint him at this point.

I agree 100%. Reggie Bush is not in the same category as Faulk, Sander and LT. Not even close. I dont care what they hype was coming into the NFL from college. What happened in college doesnt mean anything now. I think Reggie is a good player, not necessarily a good RB, but hes a weapon that most offenses would like to have. Reggie Bush was at the bottom in terms of running backs this pst year. Is it that hard to accept.

Flyboy
08-01-2007, 05:47 PM
All I ask is that people should wait for that improvement as a runner before they anoint him. I am not saying, nor have ever said, that he will not improve. I just need to see it first. I don't see why my stance is so controversial. Just because I'm not drinking the "Reggie Bush is the next *insert all time great here*" kool-aid? That's ridiculous.

Nah, I feel you but there are times that you might have some hate for him even though I personally know that's not the case. It's all good.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-01-2007, 05:51 PM
crap. where's chris... i'm going to have to break it to him gently.

:(

Well, in fairness, in this thread, I did list a fact. Well, other than Cutler being Mo-Drew's daddy. But the first thing was a fact. Unless I got the person wrong. But yeah.

neko4
08-01-2007, 08:03 PM
, Charles Woodson (at one point
I'm sure you can find 5 in that list. Also, you said talent but I'm sure you meant athleticism. If you really meant talent, then I could just simply list every elite player in the NFL, because Bush isn't elite.

You mean last year right?

Ward
08-01-2007, 08:08 PM
What are you asking exactly?

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 08:39 PM
Reggie Bush played in a spell role on the best offense in football

Best offense in football? I guess that depends on how you define it. If you're talking about yardage alone, then yes, there's no debate. If you're talking about scoring, taking care of the football, etc., then the Chargers and Colts both have strong cases against the Saints.

Crazy_Chris
08-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Facts about Vikings 2006 Draft Class

-6 players were drafted
-4 were first day selections
-4 were Defensive players
-5 of the 6 logged atleast 2 starts at their respective postions, between the 5 of them they averaged 11 games(played in) and 3 games(started)

neko4
08-01-2007, 09:26 PM
Wooo Ryan Cook

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 09:53 PM
-5 2006 draft selections will play a significant role for the team in 2007.

Until you said this, it was fact. This is conjecture based on what the team is saying combined with what you think will happen and, of course, barring injuries.

Shiver
08-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Best offense in football? I guess that depends on how you define it. If you're talking about yardage alone, then yes, there's no debate. If you're talking about scoring, taking care of the football, etc., then the Chargers and Colts both have strong cases against the Saints.

Colts could be argued for. The Chargers passing game isn't up to snuff.

Crazy_Chris
08-01-2007, 10:39 PM
Until you said this, it was fact. This is conjecture based on what the team is saying combined with what you think will happen and, of course, barring injuries.

ah good point, fixed it.

Dam8610
08-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Colts could be argued for. The Chargers passing game isn't up to snuff.

The Chargers scored the most points in the NFL last year, which is why I put them up there.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 11:48 PM
Fact: Jason Allen is terrible.

draftguru151
08-01-2007, 11:53 PM
but dude. that one guy was so right that he was a first round pick and that he'd be the best safety in the draft by far.

funny that he vanished as soon as the season started.

You mean Jason Allen's mom? That was pretty funny. He totally got owned by that doctor, that was great.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-02-2007, 12:46 AM
Fact:Bing was on the IR.

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 01:07 AM
Colts could be argued for. The Chargers passing game isn't up to snuff.

Isn't up to snuff to the tune of 492 points. I'll take it.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-02-2007, 01:09 AM
I fear the mighty Chargers WR corps.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 01:22 AM
Dawan Landry was an okay pick by the Ravens. :D

Geo
08-02-2007, 02:39 AM
Fact: Jason Allen is terrible.
I still think he'll make an excellent safety, although I guess we'll have to put that on hold for the time being as Allen works out at cornerback.

nobodyinparticular
08-02-2007, 03:16 AM
fact:

steelers drafted two future playmakers and potentially three

playmakers:
santonio holmes
anthony smith

potential playmaker:
willie ried on punt returners

Potential meaning "something that has not yet happened". Related word: "future"

Incredibly homeristic and dense on your part to make a separate list of "future" playmakers and "potential" playmakers. I mean, seriously, are you kidding me? Neither Holmes nor Smith are "playmakers" right now except in the very base sense that that they have been in on plays at an NFL level. Thus, they are "potential" playmakers in every sense of the word and will remain such until they actually become playmakers. Amazing concept, I know... Right up there with putting your pants on one leg at a time...

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 10:08 AM
I fear the mighty Chargers WR corps.

Well, when you have 8 guys in the box because of LT, and Gates commanding a constant double team, you get single coverage on 6-5 guys like Jackson and Floyd, or you get shifty guys like Davis and Parker all alone. So we move down the field, and LT scores. It doesn't matter if the WRs are spectacular, it was the most dominant O in the NFL last year.

Back to the topic: Antonio Cromartie has looked awesome in camp this year, there's a decent chance he beats out Florence, instead of waiting for him to leave in FA next year. They'll find ways to get him on the field regardless.

Bearsfan123
08-02-2007, 11:16 AM
The Bears had to put two of their rookie defensive players on IR:

Dusty Dvoracek DT- 3rd rd- never played a snap in a regular season game
Jamar Williams OLB- 4th rd-played on ST i believe in two games before going out

Mark Anderson DE- 5th rd In spot duty had 12 sacks in his rookie year.

BufFan71
08-02-2007, 11:41 AM
here are some Facts:

Donte Whitner had 100+ tackles
Ko Simpson's play led the Bills to get rid of Vincent
Kyle Williams (5th round--the way he plays) should have been a 2nd rounder
Keith Ellison's play was the reason the bills happily traded spikes
Terrence Pennington (7th rounder) started about 8games for buf at RT

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 11:47 AM
depends on your definition of dominant. you scored 4 more points that the colts did per game. but then, one could argue that that's a function of takeaways in the opponents zone. *shrug* i dislike unprovable blanket statements, and that's exactly what that is.

Fair enough. I would define dominance as "scoring more points than anyone else," that's pretty quantifiable. Factoring in defensive takeaways is doable, but what's the point? Obviously it's between Colts and Chargers, in any case. Pats are in there too, but until that WR corps proves it can be as elite as everyone says, and Maroney proves he can carry the load for the first time in his career, I am going to give the edge to Peyton and LT.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 11:51 AM
here are some Facts:

Donte Whitner had 100+ tackles
Ko Simpson's play led the Bills to get rid of Vincent
Kyle Williams (5th round--the way he plays) should have been a 2nd rounder
Keith Ellison's play was the reason the bills happily traded spikes
Terrence Pennington (7th rounder) started about 6games for buf at RT

Sorry but those aren't exactly sparkling stats for your team.

Whitner - A safety shouldn't get that many chances unless teams are constantly throwing the long ball or getting mismatches or running backs are breaking into the secondary constantly on runs.

Simpson - So a rookie beat out an aging vet how has lost considerable skills

Williams - He was drafted in the 5th for a reason and nothing really stands out about him after last season

Ellison - Spikes was really mediocre in Buffalo so was it that hard to beat him?

Pennington - Its never a good thing to have a 7th round Tackle start on the offensive line

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 11:55 AM
Sorry but those aren't exactly sparkling stats for your team.

Whitner - A safety shouldn't get that many chances unless teams are constantly throwing the long ball or getting mismatches or running backs are breaking into the secondary constantly on runs.

Simpson - So a rookie beat out an aging vet how has lost considerable skills

Williams - He was drafted in the 5th for a reason and nothing really stands out about him after last season

Ellison - Spikes was really mediocre in Buffalo so was it that hard to beat him?

Pennington - Its never a good thing to have a 7th round Tackle start on the offensive line

So I guess the same would go for a 7th round WR. Really hurt the Saints.

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 11:57 AM
i'm bored and argumentative, and it was the chargers. i have to start getting ready for the ****-talking this fall. regardless, it was fairly impressive what you were able to do with what amounts to no talent at the WR position (not saying they weren't great fits in your offense, but i'm not sure any of those guys is any better than a decent #2 option on most other teams).

It's an interesting argument; I definitely felt like we had zero talent there in January. But as much as none of our guys are very distinguished, they each fit into a little niche that when you step back really makes our offense go:

Parker; normally extremely clutch. He and Rivers run timing patterns that defy belief sometimes, and he's pretty acrobatic for a 6' 180 guy. He's usually got the best hands on the team too, and he's our go to guy on 4th down. Not 3rd, 4th.

Jackson: 6'5, 240, 4.4. Very raw last year, but he came on big time. As big as he is, he's pretty much a deep threat; 3 catches for 95 against Denver, the long bomb game winner against Seattle, etc. He's got a bright future.

Keenan; well, he stopped getting on the field halfway through the season. Hmm I wonder if we could have used him vs. NE, when we had like 6 dropped passes. Now he's gone.

Floyd; Pretty natural WR. Destroyed the Bengals almost as badly as LT did. He's another 6'5 guy but he's got speed and some moves, plus hands. Just injury prone, but he's got another ten pounds of muscle this year.

Davis; can't expect too much from a rookie, but good size, speed, hands and routes means we might just have a playmaker here, especially if camp reports are to be believed.




All in all, not a top ten group, but I don't know how much production you can expect with LT and Gates out there. They'll get the job done.

They ARE a bunch of number 3s, or maybe 2s on good days, but Gates, LT, WR is pretty much the order of our passing options anyway.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 11:59 AM
So I guess the same would go for a 7th round WR. Really hurt the Saints.

Yeah because I forgot that 7th rounders become All-Pro's all the time. :rolleyes: Colston was a once in an era find that late, but of course now everyone will expect 7th rounders to be great....................

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:00 PM
That still doesn't mean just because a 7th rounder starts it's going to be a bad thing.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:02 PM
That still doesn't mean just because a 7th rounder starts it's going to be a bad thing.


There's a reason that they were taken that low in the draft. Any time a 7th round offensive lineman is forced to start it means 2 things: that injuries are devastating the line or the team flat out sucks and is seeing what they have on their roster. Either way its not a good situation.

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 12:05 PM
There's a reason that they were taken that low in the draft. Any time a 7th round offensive lineman is forced to start it means 2 things: that injuries are devastating the line or the team flat out sucks and is seeing what they have on their roster. Either way its not a good situation.

Or, he is Shane Olivea.

Shiver
08-02-2007, 12:05 PM
Isn't up to snuff to the tune of 492 points. I'll take it.


The Chargers had a competent defense that gave them the ball in favorable positions, something the Saints and Colts cannot say. Not to mention the three defensive touchdowns they scored. I watched every Chargers game last year, as I am a LaDainian Tomlinson fantasy owner with Direct TV, so it isn't as if I never saw the Chargers offense last year.

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:07 PM
There's a reason that they were taken that low in the draft. Any time a 7th round offensive lineman is forced to start it means 2 things: that injuries are devastating the line or the team flat out sucks and is seeing what they have on their roster. Either way its not a good situation.

Or a 3rd, he is actually somewhat good. Pennington played decently well last year, it's not like they put him in and he got beat every play.

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 12:09 PM
The Chargers had a competent defense that gave them the ball in favorable positions, something the Saints and Colts cannot say. Not to mention the three defensive touchdowns they scored. I watched every Chargers game last year, as I am a LaDainian Tomlinson fantasy owner with Direct TV, so it isn't as if I never saw the Chargers offense last year.

I didn't accuse you of not watching the games. I've already admitted the Colts are on the same tier; at that point, IMO it's just a preference of whether or not you'd prefer Manning quarterbacking or LT rushing.

The Saints...no: NFC defenses. If they can replicate last year, or improve even, then I'll give them the credit they'll obviously deserve. But not just yet.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:09 PM
Or a 3rd, he is actually somewhat good. Pennington played decently well last year, it's not like they put him in and he got beat every play.


Or took Ginn at the 9 spot when he was still injured instead of taking a franchise QB.........

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Or took Ginn at the 9 spot when he was still injured instead of taking a franchise QB.........

What the hell does that even have to do with anything?

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:13 PM
What the hell does that even have to do with anything?

It's called the, I was wrong so I'm gonna make fun of your team to divert your attention.

Surrender noted.

Turtlepower
08-02-2007, 12:17 PM
Or took Ginn at the 9 spot when he was still injured instead of taking a franchise QB.........

I love how the thread is about the 2006 NFL draft and you lose an argument, so you decide to mention the 2007 draft. I disagree with Miami's pick whole heartedly, but you cannot write anything off this early.

There's a reason that they were taken that low in the draft. Any time a 7th round offensive lineman is forced to start it means 2 things: that injuries are devastating the line or the team flat out sucks and is seeing what they have on their roster. Either way its not a good situation.

Aren't you also the person defending Jared Gaither being selected in the 5th round of the supplemental draft. Well according to your logic it was a horrible pick because he will never play. In fact, why bother ever having more than 2 or 3 rounds in the draft if the rest of the players will start or be significant to a team.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:20 PM
It's called the, I was wrong so I'm gonna make fun of your team to divert your attention.

Surrender noted.

No its called you won't except simple logic that a 7th round pick starting isn't the greatest thing in the world. But hey you want to live in a fantasy world go ahead.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:21 PM
I love how the thread is about the 2006 NFL draft and you lose an argument, so you decide to mention the 2007 draft. I disagree with Miami's pick whole heartedly, but you cannot write anything off this early.



Aren't you also the person defending Jared Gaither being selected in the 5th round of the supplemental draft. Well according to your logic it was a horrible pick because he will never play. In fact, why bother ever having more than 2 or 3 rounds in the draft if the rest of the players will start or be significant to a team.

Ok once again, try and know what you're talking about before attempting an intelligent post. There is a big difference between a 5th round flier on a Lineman for the future in the Supplemental Draft and a 7th round pick who's forced into starting. NO ONE DRAFTS A PLAYER IN THE 7th ROUND WITH NOTIONS OF THEM STARTING!

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:24 PM
Because a 7th round pick never surprises and can actual develop into a good player?

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:25 PM
that's utterly atrocious logic.

"there's a reason tom brady was selected in the 6th round. it wasn't a good situation when he had to start. he sucks by extension of his draft position."

terrible argument.

What is this, ignore logic day? Brady was forced into starting due to injury, and guess what no expected him to do what he did! He fell for legitimate reasons and flourished despited that. He's the poster child for making quality picks no matter what round it is. Regardless of his success or other late round success stories, Adalius Thomas comes to mind, late round picks do not come into the league with the expectations of starting and contributing right away. For a 7th round pick to be forced to start, its not a great situation for the team.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:27 PM
Because a 7th round pick never surprises and can actual develop into a good player?

Can it happen: Yes

Is it more then likely not going to happen: Yes

Its simple logic really, do some research. More 7th round picks fail then actually pan out. I'm done with this ridiculous argument because all you people are doing is trying to instigate an argument and thats to juvenile of an action to continue. I bid you all good day.

Turtlepower
08-02-2007, 12:36 PM
Because a 7th round pick never surprises and can actual develop into a good player?

I think he is saying that it makes more sense to get a job at McDonald's then enter the NFL draft if you are going to be selected on the second day.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:39 PM
that's a ridiculous statement. perhaps the player fell because he played at some D-III school and, gosh, it turns out, he was pretty talented? speaking of ignoring logic. you're working off the bad assumption that the round a player was drafted determines his talent and that there's no possibility that it can be anything other than bad when such a player ends up starting. that's absolutely untrue. stating that your position is logical does NOT mean it is. especially in this case. in this case it's just wrong.

I drop the argument yet of course you still feel the need to respond. Your basing your argument on Colsten, a once in a blue moon prospect. Your not worth wasting my time with because you think you're right in every instant and won't concede you're wrong so keep thinking your right or whatever you think to get you through the day.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:52 PM
i've provided TWO examples and can effectively provide more. you've provided NONE and expect me to take your word as gospel. and you're STILL abandoning the argument, which is basically the cop out way of saying "i'm wrong, but i won't admit it, so i just won't defencd my position". look, just don't post in the first place. if you can't argue your point when someone disagrees, why do you even bother posting? you added nothing to this thread, then went on for several posts stating that you're right and no one else is being "logical" but have utterly failed in every possible way to defend your point of view. again, why did you bother hitting submit in the first place?

So in other words you want me to list all the 7th rounders that didn't pan out? I can if thats what it takes for you to accept the obvious fine! Nice try at the belittling but its you that has failed. If you can't accept that 7th rounders aren't drafted to be superstars I don't know how to explain simple logic. Yes logic, thats what I'm using. All you are relying on is your "holier then thou, I'm a head moderator and you're not" reasoning. Thats not proof, that just basically gives you a carte blanche to say what you want and no one can do anything.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:56 PM
Here you go stats:

Sel# Team Player Pos. School
201 San Diego Brandon Gorin T Purdue
202 Arizona Renaldo Hill FS Michigan State
203 Cleveland Paul Zukauskas G Boston College
204 Cincinnati T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Oregon State
205 Tampa Bay Dauntae' Finger TE North Carolina
206 N.Y. Jets James Reed DT Iowa State
207 Dallas Colston Weatherington NT Central Missouri
208 Chicago John Capel WR Florida
209 San Francisco Alex Lincoln LB Auburn
210 Seattle Harold Blackmon SS Northwestern
211 Carolina Louis Williams C Louisiana State
212 Kansas City Shaunard Harts FS Boise State
213 Jacksonville Anthony Denman OLB Notre Dame
214 Buffalo Reggie Germany WR Ohio State
215 Atlanta Corey Hall S Appalachian State
216 New England Owen Pochman K Brigham Young
217 N.Y. Jets Tupe Peko G Michigan State
218 Pittsburgh Chris Taylor WR Texas A&M
219 Atlanta Kynan Forney G Hawaii
220 Indianapolis Rick DeMulling G Idaho
221 New Orleans Ennis Davis DT Southern California
222 Seattle Dennis Norman C Princeton
223 Tampa Bay Than Merrill SS Yale
224 San Francisco Eric Johnson TE Yale
225 Minnesota Brian Crawford T Western Oregon
226 Atlanta Ronald Flemons DE Texas A&M
227 Carolina Mike Roberg TE Idaho
228 Oakland Derek Combs CB Ohio State
229 Oakland Ken-Yon Rambo WR Ohio State
230 N.Y. Giants Ross Kolodziej NT Wisconsin
231 Baltimore Dwayne Missouri DE Northwestern
232 Tennessee Keith Adams MLB Clemson
233 Jacksonville Marlon McCree FS Kentucky
234 Tampa Bay Joe Tafoya DE Arizona
235 Jacksonville Richmond Flowers WR Tenn.-Chattanooga
236 Atlanta Quentin McCord WR Kentucky
237 Seattle Kris Kocurek DT Texas Tech
238 Buffalo Tyrone Robertson DT Hinds CC
239 New England T.J. Turner OLB Michigan State
240 Dallas John Nix NT Southern Mississippi
241 Jacksonville Randy Chevrier DT McGill
242 Dallas Char-ron Dorsey T Florida State
243 Kansas City Terdell Sands DT Tenn.-Chattanooga
244 San Diego Robert Carswell SS Clemson
245 Cleveland Andre King WR Miami
246 Arizona Tevita Ofahengaue TE Brigham Young

2001 7th round selections, from my estimation only 2 of 46 actually are "good" players. Like I said, more fail then succeed. For every Colsten or Brady you have 40-50 other from that round who amount to nothing. In other words its not a great situation to have a 7th rounder forced into starting in his rookie year!

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:57 PM
Wait here's 2002's 7th Round selections, find me a player the caliber of Brady?

Sel# Team Player Pos. School
212 Pittsburgh Lavar Glover DB Cincinnati
213 Carolina Pete Campion G North Dakota State
214 Detroit Luke Staley RB Brigham Young
215 Buffalo Mike Pucillo C Auburn
216 San Diego Seth Burford QB Cal Poly-SLO
217 Atlanta Michael Coleman WR Widener
218 Minnesota Chad Beasley T Virginia Tech
219 Cincinnati Joey Evans DE North Carolina
220 Indianapolis Josh Mallard DE Georgia
221 Kansas City Maurice Rodriguez LB Fresno State
222 Jacksonville Kendall Newson WR Middle Tennessee
223 Arizona Mike Banks TE Iowa State
224 New Orleans Derrius Monroe DE Virginia Tech
225 Tennessee Darrell Hill WR Northern Illinois
226 N.Y. Giants Daryl Jones WR Miami
227 Cleveland Joaquin Gonzalez T Miami
228 Denver Chris Young SS Georgia Tech
229 Houston Greg White DE Minnesota
230 Washington Jeff Grau C UCLA
231 Denver Monsanto Pope DT Virginia
232 Seattle Jeff Kelly QB Southern Mississippi
233 Tampa Bay Tim Wansley CB Georgia
234 Washington Greg Scott DE Hampton
235 Oakland Ronald Curry WR North Carolina
236 Baltimore Wes Pate QB Stephen F. Austin
237 New England Antwoine Womack RB Virginia
238 Philadelphia Raheem Brock DT Temple
239 San Francisco Eric Heitmann C Stanford
240 Tennessee Carlos Hall DE Arkansas
241 Miami Leonard Henry RB East Carolina
242 Pittsburgh Brett Keisel DE Brigham Young
243 St. Louis Chris Massey LS Marshall
244 Atlanta Kevin Shaffer T Tulsa
245 N.Y. Giants Quincy Monk OLB North Carolina
246 Jacksonville Steve Smith DB Oregon
247 Jacksonville Hayden Epstein K Michigan
248 San Francisco Kyle Kosier G Arizona State
249 Buffalo Rodney Wright WR Fresno State
250 Tampa Bay Tracy Wistrom TE Nebraska
251 Buffalo Jarrett Ferguson RB Virginia Tech
252 Detroit Matt Murphy TE Maryland
253 New England David Givens WR Notre Dame
254 Tampa Bay Aaron Lockett WR Kansas State
255 Tampa Bay Zack Quaccia C Stanford
256 San Francisco Teddy Gaines DB Tennessee
257 Washington Rock Cartwright RB Kansas State
258 Carolina Brad Franklin CB Louisiana-Lafayette
259 Detroit Victor Rogers T Colorado
260 Buffalo Dominique Stevenson OLB Tennessee
261 Houston Ahmad Miller DT Nevada-Las Vegas

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:57 PM
How many times did you actually watch Pennington play last year? Your basing your entire argument that 7th rounders don't work out often (you're actually pretty much saying Colston is the only 7th rounder to ever work out) and not having anything to do with Pennington. Did Pennington play like an all star, no, but to assume that it had nothing to do with his talent is ridiculous.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 12:58 PM
2003 7th Round, again where's the "good" players?


Sel# Team Player Pos. School
215 Cincinnati Scott Kooistra T North Carolina State
216 Detroit Ben Johnson G Wisconsin
217 Houston Curry Burns DB Louisville
218 Jacksonville Malaefou MacKenzie FB Southern California
219 Dallas Justin Bates G Colorado
220 Detroit Blue Adams SS Cincinnati
221 Minnesota Keenan Howry WR Oregon
222 Seattle Josh Brown K Nebraska
223 Baltimore Trent Smith TE Oklahoma
224 Seattle Taco Wallace WR Kansas State
225 Tennessee Todd Williams T Florida State
226 Carolina Walter Young WR Illinois
227 Denver Clint Mitchell DE Florida
228 Buffalo Mario Haggan OLB Mississippi State
229 San Diego Andrew Pinnock FB South Carolina
230 Kansas City Montique Sharpe DT Wake Forest
231 New Orleans Talman Gardner WR Florida State
232 Washington Gibran Hamdan QB Indiana
233 Houston Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
234 New England Spencer Nead FB Brigham Young
235 Denver Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama
236 Detroit Brandon Drumm RB Colorado
237 N.Y. Jets Dave Yovanovits G Temple
238 Atlanta Demetrin Veal DT Tennessee
239 New England Tully Banta-Cain OLB California
240 N.Y. Giants Charles Drake DB Michigan
241 San Francisco Ken Dorsey QB Miami
242 Pittsburgh J.T. Wall RB Georgia
243 New England Ethan Kelley NT Baylor
244 Philadelphia Norman LeJeune DB Louisiana State
245 Green Bay Chris Johnson CB Louisville
246 Oakland Siddeeq Shabazz SS New Mexico State
247 Carolina Casey Moore RB Stanford
248 Miami Davern Williams DT Troy
249 N.Y. Giants Wayne Lucier C Colorado
250 Baltimore Mike Mabry C Central Florida
251 St. Louis Scott Shanle OLB Nebraska
252 Kansas City Willie Pile FS Virginia Tech
253 Green Bay DeAndrew Rubin WR South Florida
254 St. Louis Richard Angulo TE Western New Mexico
255 N.Y. Giants Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan
256 Green Bay Carl Ford WR Toledo
257 Green Bay Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman
258 Baltimore Antwoine Sanders DB Utah
259 Cincinnati Elton Patterson DE Central Florida
260 Detroit Travis Anglin WR Memphis
261 Chicago Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh
262 Oakland Ryan Hoag WR Gustavus Adolphus

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 12:59 PM
Here you go stats:

2001 7th round selections, from my estimation only 2 of 46 actually are "good" players. Like I said, more fail then succeed. For every Colsten or Brady you have 40-50 other from that round who amount to nothing. In other words its not a great situation to have a 7th rounder forced into starting in his rookie year!

First off, I counted 8 of those players doing something in the NFL, and 2nd, who's to say Pennington isn't one of those few players that actually pan out?

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 01:00 PM
How many times did you actually watch Pennington play last year? Your basing your entire argument that 7th rounders don't work out often (you're actually pretty much saying Colston is the only 7th rounder to ever work out) and not having anything to do with Pennington. Did Pennington play like an all star, no, but to assume that it had nothing to do with his talent is ridiculous.

No I'm not saying Colsten is the only one, but you threw him out like he's the standard of what 7th rounder's do in the NFL. My argument is they don't pan out like Colsten and are usually only serviceable players. And with the draft results I've proven my point!

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 01:02 PM
First off, I counted 8 of those players doing something in the NFL, and 2nd, who's to say Pennington isn't one of those few players that actually pan out?

Its too early to say whether Pennington will or won't, I merely stated that its not a good thing to have him starting. Did he play horribly, no, but I bet he wasn't in the coaches plans to be starting come draft day.

draftguru151
08-02-2007, 01:03 PM
Where did I ever say it was standard? You said it's never a good thing when a 7th rounder starts on the OL and that it was because of two things that Pennington started, neither having to do with his talent. I'm saying Pennington played well last year and that is why he started the last 9 games of the season and that you're logic about Pennington is terrible, nothing to do with 7th rounders always working out.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 01:05 PM
are you joking? again, answer a simple question, one you've dodged EVERY time it's been asked:

what's to say a 7th round player is NOT a talented player, capable of starting and playing well?

i'll answer it for you: nothing. there's is absolutely nothing logical in presuming that a 2nd day player could not have the talent to start. just like there's absolutely nothing logical in assuming a first round pick will have the ability to succeed. the past is absolutely LITTERED with examples of both.

make an argument, or stop whining that i'm "picking on you" for making a terrible argument. this has nothing to do with being a moderator, and i'm frankly disgusted that you'd stoop that low to suggest it. it has everything to do with you being wrong and not being able to argue your way out of a paper bag. oh, unless you'd like to cite a specific case of me breaking the rules in this thread? can't do it? then stop make the same worthless statement i got on someone for making yesterday. if you people can't figure out what rule i've broken but your feelings are hurt and i MUST'VE abused my power somehow to do that, maybe it's time you grow a thicker skin. i'm sick of it. either stand up for yourself and make an argument worth listening to, or don't bother posting. whining because i'm "mean" and i question your opinion is childish and shouldn't have a place anywhere, let alone here.


Wow who's whining now?

I proved my point whether you admit it or not. You can keep saying I'm wrong, or can't debate, I'm childish or whatever you want. You can now go find another thread to exert your "holier then thou" attitude.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 01:06 PM
post 2002's first rounders and find me a player the caliber of brady. gosh, i guess your argument is STILL worthless and bunk.

The topic is 7th rounders not 1st, can't you stay on topic? Your deviation is worthless and bunk!

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Just saying that a 7th rounder starting is a bad thing just because 7th rounders rarely pan out is a horrible argument, especially when said 7th rounder actually played well. People slip through the cracks, it happens. Draft position does not restrict how good a player can be.

Billingsley26
08-02-2007, 01:12 PM
What is this, ignore logic day? Brady was forced into starting due to injury, and guess what no expected him to do what he did! He fell for legitimate reasons and flourished despited that. He's the poster child for making quality picks no matter what round it is. Regardless of his success or other late round success stories, Adalius Thomas comes to mind, late round picks do not come into the league with the expectations of starting and contributing right away. For a 7th round pick to be forced to start, its not a great situation for the team.

WOW!!! Are you really that ignorant? Your sitting here telling us how Tom Brady wasnt forced into playing right away and how he was a late round pick. Yet you sit there and say how Terrence Pennington's play plus the fact that he was a 7th round pick means the Bills OL is garbage! Well I got some news. It really is ignore logic day!!!! It also meand that Pennington played and started because a)they felt he was ready later on and b)injuries hurt them and left an opening for him. Never did they expect him to start week 1 being a 7th round pick.

Billingsley26
08-02-2007, 01:17 PM
GEEZ. Big Dawg your on a roll today. Stop comparing 7th rounder to Tom Brady until they have been in the league for 2 years. Your comparing 2007 rookies to Tom Brady. How long did Brady have to play before he started? Even the 2006 rookies havent had the time that Brady had to gain experience. Unbelievable. Geez, you are just proving something today. How you cannot argue at all.

nobodyinparticular
08-02-2007, 02:24 PM
Bigdawg, you fail critical thinking and argumentation.

BigDawg819
08-02-2007, 02:35 PM
Bigdawg, you fail critical thinking and argumentation.

If any of your opinions mattered, I might actually care........

SubNoize
08-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Here you go stats:

Sel# Team Player Pos. School
201 San Diego Brandon Gorin T Purdue
202 Arizona Renaldo Hill FS Michigan State
203 Cleveland Paul Zukauskas G Boston College
204 Cincinnati T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Oregon State
205 Tampa Bay Dauntae' Finger TE North Carolina
206 N.Y. Jets James Reed DT Iowa State
207 Dallas Colston Weatherington NT Central Missouri
208 Chicago John Capel WR Florida
209 San Francisco Alex Lincoln LB Auburn
210 Seattle Harold Blackmon SS Northwestern
211 Carolina Louis Williams C Louisiana State
212 Kansas City Shaunard Harts FS Boise State
213 Jacksonville Anthony Denman OLB Notre Dame
214 Buffalo Reggie Germany WR Ohio State
215 Atlanta Corey Hall S Appalachian State
216 New England Owen Pochman K Brigham Young
217 N.Y. Jets Tupe Peko G Michigan State
218 Pittsburgh Chris Taylor WR Texas A&M
219 Atlanta Kynan Forney G Hawaii
220 Indianapolis Rick DeMulling G Idaho
221 New Orleans Ennis Davis DT Southern California
222 Seattle Dennis Norman C Princeton
223 Tampa Bay Than Merrill SS Yale
224 San Francisco Eric Johnson TE Yale
225 Minnesota Brian Crawford T Western Oregon
226 Atlanta Ronald Flemons DE Texas A&M
227 Carolina Mike Roberg TE Idaho
228 Oakland Derek Combs CB Ohio State
229 Oakland Ken-Yon Rambo WR Ohio State
230 N.Y. Giants Ross Kolodziej NT Wisconsin
231 Baltimore Dwayne Missouri DE Northwestern
232 Tennessee Keith Adams MLB Clemson
233 Jacksonville Marlon McCree FS Kentucky
234 Tampa Bay Joe Tafoya DE Arizona
235 Jacksonville Richmond Flowers WR Tenn.-Chattanooga
236 Atlanta Quentin McCord WR Kentucky
237 Seattle Kris Kocurek DT Texas Tech
238 Buffalo Tyrone Robertson DT Hinds CC
239 New England T.J. Turner OLB Michigan State
240 Dallas John Nix NT Southern Mississippi
241 Jacksonville Randy Chevrier DT McGill
242 Dallas Char-ron Dorsey T Florida State
243 Kansas City Terdell Sands DT Tenn.-Chattanooga
244 San Diego Robert Carswell SS Clemson
245 Cleveland Andre King WR Miami
246 Arizona Tevita Ofahengaue TE Brigham Young

2001 7th round selections, from my estimation only 2 of 46 actually are "good" players. Like I said, more fail then succeed. For every Colsten or Brady you have 40-50 other from that round who amount to nothing. In other words its not a great situation to have a 7th rounder forced into starting in his rookie year!

All the players bolded have started ,had a fair amount of playing time at one point or have made it on rosters to this day... good job loading up a list of 7th rounders who've played and lasted in the league

BamaFalcon59
08-02-2007, 05:32 PM
FYI the Patriots liked Brady a lot before injury. Read the book Patriot reign. Another tidbit of information is that it was between Brady and Tim Rattay. They liked both a lot but Brady had a slight edge.. Tim Rattay did pretty good considering his draft selection, but the Patriots are still fortunate they ended up with Brady. Also, while they drafted him expecting a backup, these quotes show they really liked him.

Quotes
"Rehbein described him (Brady) as a winner, a leader with a good attitude."
"On April 21, deep into the second day of their first draft with the Patriots, Belichick and Pioli looked at their draft board. They already had selected Dave Stachelski, Jeff Mariott, and Antwan Harris. Brady was available in the sixth round, at pick number 199, and Belichick stared into his name. "Brady shouldn't be there," he said. "He's too good".
"He had thought Brady was better than Bledsoe in 2001 too. He had noticed Brady's leadership qualities during the previous years rookie minicamop. Detail, detail, detail..."

It goes on and talks about how it would be hard for Brady to pass Bledsoe purely due to the 100 million dollar contract he recently signed. Then it finishes the story how you all know it.

Anyways, good book. Recommended.

BamaFalcon59
08-02-2007, 05:35 PM
How is that equivalent to a combine 4.4 .. If he runs a 4.33 at a pro day.. HE RUNS A 4.3. You're a homer if you think Norwood is faster and more explosive than Bush. Wikipedia is edited information, probably edited BY YOU! I couldn't find the rivals link so I'll take your word for it. But timed speed is TOTALLY different from field speed and for that I'll give Reggie the nod.

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=8963&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scouting

Numbers: As a senior, he carried 191 times for 1136 yards, a 5.9 yards-per-carry average and six TDs, with 19 receptions for 96 yards and two TDs. At the Combine, he ran a 4.33, did 15 reps in the lifting, and had a 36.5-inch vertical jump and 10-foot, 2-inch broad jump.

While the cons contradict my statement, most said that prior to the draft and he did the exact opposite entering the NFL.

Saying I would edit the wikipedia thing is just dumb. Why would I do that when there are so many other sources?

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-02-2007, 08:28 PM
Wow this thread turned out to be entertaining.

CC.SD
08-02-2007, 08:43 PM
2003 7th Round, again where's the "good" players?


Sel# Team Player Pos. School

229 San Diego Andrew Pinnock FB South Carolina


Andrew Pinnock is legit, he will be LT's number 2 next year when Turner leaves, he has switched to HB when he's not backing up LoNeal.


He signed like a 5 year contract not too long ago; not his rookie deal.

nobodyinparticular
08-02-2007, 09:06 PM
If any of your opinions mattered, I might actually care........

Opinion? Who said anything about opinion? By your definition it is considered fact.