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skinzzfan25
08-08-2007, 08:56 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0708/nfl.defenders.under25/content.1.html

10. Haloti Ngata
9. Luis Castillo
8. A.J. Hawk
7. Kamerion Wimbley
6. Demeco Ryans
5. DeAngelo Hall
4. Lofa Tatupu
3. Tommie Harris
2. Sean Taylor
1. Shawne Merriman

Discuss? I think it's pretty fair, I might have Tatupu and Ryans a tad higher.

Dam8610
08-08-2007, 09:02 PM
Harris should be #1, Taylor too high as usual, Hall too high, Ryans too low.

skinzzfan25
08-08-2007, 09:05 PM
Actually, I'd take Hawk and put Ware in his place, they forgot about him.

Play Hard
08-08-2007, 09:18 PM
I would put ILB Kirk Morrison on that list,and probably bumping off peanut AJ Hawk

KILLERSANTA
08-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Actually, I'd take Hawk and put Ware in his place, they forgot about him.

Ware is 25............


How come people that get paid to talk about football, know nothing about football?

Bohleive
08-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Terrell Suggs needs to be at least top 3 on that list.

umphrey
08-08-2007, 09:29 PM
I would put ILB Kirk Morrison on that list,and probably bumping off peanut AJ Hawk

Hawk is hardly a peanut...

Boston
08-08-2007, 09:29 PM
I would put ILB Kirk Morrison on that list,and probably bumping off peanut AJ Hawk

If I was asked who I would take, between Hawk and Morrison, I wouldn't hesitate for a second in picking Hawk.

wiscbadgerfootball
08-08-2007, 09:36 PM
If I was asked who I would take, between Hawk and Morrison, I wouldn't hesitate for a second in picking Hawk.

for sure last year

Morrison= 102 total tackles
Hawk= 119 total tackles (rookie year)

Boston
08-08-2007, 09:36 PM
I love Taylor's reasoning for number 2.

"Taylor is prone to making mistakes, but his hitting ability makes up for his shortcomings."

Ha. This guy has doesn't understand how to cover, but he hits hard, that makes him a good player, right?

Vikes99ej
08-08-2007, 09:43 PM
Cedric Griffin is probably the best player on the Vikings under 25.

Fitzgerald11
08-08-2007, 09:43 PM
Actually, I'd take Hawk and put Ware in his place, they forgot about him.

Ware is 25 now.

Fitzgerald11
08-08-2007, 09:44 PM
Cedric Griffin is probably the best player on the Vikings under 25.

Cedric Griffin is 25.

BuckNaked
08-08-2007, 09:44 PM
Cedric Griffin is probably the best player on the Vikings under 25.

This great man would beg to differ:

http://nflatino.com/imagerepository/thigpen_tyler.jpg

wiscbadgerfootball
08-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Chad Greenway? idk who that is

BuckNaked
08-08-2007, 09:47 PM
Chad Greenway? idk who that is

Future Hall of Famer Tyler Thigpen.

skinzzfan25
08-08-2007, 09:47 PM
Ware is 25 now.

Oh, in that case... :P

Vikes99ej
08-08-2007, 09:48 PM
Cedric Griffin is 25.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/411794

I know more about the Vikings than you, but thanks for trying.

Bohleive
08-08-2007, 09:49 PM
Seriously, Suggs is 24, what the hell was this dude thinking?

BuckNaked
08-08-2007, 09:49 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/411794

I know more about the Vikings than you, but thanks for trying.

Sweet! Cyber High-Five!

shavedaeyebrow2
08-08-2007, 09:52 PM
Seriously, Suggs is 24, what the hell was this dude thinking?

As soon as I saw the title I expected Suggs to be top 3, but man, what the hell?! He is absolutely amazing and has great stats yet he isn't even on this list?

KILLERSANTA
08-08-2007, 09:53 PM
for Dallas I would say Chris Canty.

BrownsTown
08-08-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm perfectly happy where Kam-Kam is.

Fitzgerald11
08-08-2007, 09:54 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/411794

I know more about the Vikings than you, but thanks for trying.

So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.

neko4
08-08-2007, 09:55 PM
SOOOO many Taylor haters

BuckNaked
08-08-2007, 09:56 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.

Not until Novemeber though, so when the season starts he is 24 and through the first 2 months he's 24.

Vikes99ej
08-08-2007, 09:56 PM
Sweet! Cyber High-Five!

*SLAP*

Seriously, people need to know what they are talking about.

SuperMcGee
08-08-2007, 10:00 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

So does Tatupu.

Smooth Criminal
08-08-2007, 10:01 PM
I can't believe Suggs isn't on this list it has to be he just didn't know he is only 24.

My top 10
1. Suggs
2. Shanwe Merriman
3. Tommie Harris
4. Lofa Tatupu
5. Sean Taylor
6. Demeco Ryans
7. Aj Hawk
8. Kamerian Wimbley
9. Haloti Ngata
10. Kirk Morrison

Smooth Criminal
08-08-2007, 10:02 PM
Anyone that is 24 or under right now should be on the list in my opinion.

Vikes99ej
08-08-2007, 10:03 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.

If Larry Fitzgerald knew you were using him as a username, he'd punch you in the neck.

ironman4579
08-08-2007, 10:10 PM
I think Ernie Sims has to at least get some consideration for this list. 124 tackles certainly isn't terrible as a rookie.

cardsalltheway
08-08-2007, 10:11 PM
I can't believe Suggs isn't on this list it has to be he just didn't know he is only 24.

My top 10
1. Suggs
2. Shanwe Merriman
3. Tommie Harris
4. Lofa Tatupu
5. Sean Taylor
6. Demeco Ryans
7. Aj Hawk
8. Kamerian Wimbley
9. Haloti Ngata
10. Kirk Morrison

Why do you have Suggs higher than Merriman? Merriman is arguably the best defensive player in all the NFL, let alone under 25.

The Dynasty
08-08-2007, 10:17 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.

This is coming from the cardinals fan....Who's team has only been in the playoffs 4 times in the last 40 years. So What the Vikings are still rebuilding from the days of Culpepper to Moss but This is what the beauty of the NFC right? We could have the chance to go 11-5 or 3-13. Im not saying were going to go 11-5 or even 3-13 because i dont we will. I feel we will be somewhere 7-9 or 8-8. Then Looking at the Schedule of the Arizona Cardinals and i see its very tough looking. So why dont you guys just forfit as well. I mean come on right? San Fransico suppost to be Super Bowl Contenders supposly and then you still got the Seahawks and Rams High Powered Offense. Then you guys play AFC North which is probably one of the tougher divisons. Then you guys play NFC South also another tough divisons. So why dont you just forefit.

VY10
08-08-2007, 11:02 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0708/nfl.defenders.under25/content.1.html

10. Haloti Ngata
9. Luis Castillo
8. A.J. Hawk
7. Kamerion Wimbley
6. Demeco Ryans
5. DeAngelo Hall
4. Lofa Tatupu
3. Tommie Harris
2. Sean Taylor
1. Shawne Merriman

Discuss? I think it's pretty fair, I might have Tatupu and Ryans a tad higher.

Demeco at 3. He is awesome.

BuckNaked
08-08-2007, 11:12 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.

You realize you are now on the Vikings fan blacklist.

7-11
08-08-2007, 11:39 PM
If Larry Fitzgerald knew you were using him as a username, he'd punch you in the neck.

now that made me laugh

bantx
08-08-2007, 11:41 PM
nice 2 chargers in there, and suggs just jumps to 1st when he wasnt even on list im not saying he doesnt deserver to be on there but jumps to number 1 infront of merriman?

BigDawg819
08-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Why do you have Suggs higher than Merriman? Merriman is arguably the best defensive player in all the NFL, let alone under 25.

Because Suggs is a complete linebacker as opposed to the 1 trick pony and STEROID USER Merriman.

yo123
08-08-2007, 11:57 PM
So what. He turns 25 this year. Therefore, he shouldn't be on the list.

BTW, the Vikings suck. With Jackson, they might as well just forfeit already. He's a joke.



Well as insightful as that was, thats not what this thread is about. I dont know where that came from.


And btw, Sean Taylor has taken the place of Roy Williams as the most overrated safety in the league. #2? Once he can cover he will be a top 5 safety, but as of now hes only average.

Paul
08-09-2007, 12:01 AM
Suggs not being on that list is ****** disgrace. With all that due respect to Ngata, how the hell does he beat out Suggs?

Buckeyes
08-09-2007, 12:07 AM
AJ should be 7... Wimbley should be 8

Boston
08-09-2007, 12:18 AM
You realize you are now on the Vikings fan blacklist.

You can sit next to Brett Favre.

Vikes99ej
08-09-2007, 12:23 AM
You can sit next to Brett Favre.

...And keep Brad Childress company.

Boston
08-09-2007, 12:28 AM
...And keep Brad Childress company.

Don't bother. He doesn't want to be your friend.

yo123
08-09-2007, 12:30 AM
He doesnt want to be any Vikings fan's friend. He hates all of us

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 12:32 AM
He doesnt want to be any Vikings fan's friend. He hates all of us

He seems to want to be Tavarius Jackson's friend.

yo123
08-09-2007, 12:35 AM
He seems to want to be Tavarius Jackson's friend.


Thats just because Brooks Bollinger is his only other option. Hes just using Tavaris.

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 12:40 AM
You realize you are now on the Vikings fan blacklist.

The Cards have been bad over the last 40 years. But, it's not about the past. You can't change the past. But, you can change the future. And the future looks brighter for the Cardinals than it does for the Vikings.

yo123
08-09-2007, 12:42 AM
The Cards have been bad over the last 40 years. But, it's not about the past. You can't change the past. But, you can change the future. And the future looks brighter for the Cardinals than it does for the Vikings.



Its funny, Ive been hearing about how awesome the Cardinals will be for the past 3 years.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 12:43 AM
The Cards have been bad over the last 40 years. But, it's not about the past. You can't change the past. But, you can change the future. And the future looks brighter for the Cardinals than it does for the Vikings.

Too bad the future ain't looking too bright for you.

7-11
08-09-2007, 12:47 AM
The Cards have been bad over the last 40 years. But, it's not about the past. You can't change the past. But, you can change the future. And the future looks brighter for the Cardinals than it does for the Vikings.

ill admit i have a soft spot for the cards, only because they drafted my two favourite prospects of recent times in fitz and leinart. but in saying this my initial reaction when their names were read out was dissapointment. the cardinals franchise has a culture of losing and that is very very hard to turn around in a short space of time. i hope for the sake of some of the talented players they have that they can turn it around, and soon. what imtrying to say is, the cards have dissapointed before, and theyll more then likely do it again so dont get your hopes too high

Denver Bronco99
08-09-2007, 12:49 AM
What about vilma and Dj Williams?

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 01:26 AM
ill admit i have a soft spot for the cards, only because they drafted my two favourite prospects of recent times in fitz and leinart. but in saying this my initial reaction when their names were read out was dissapointment. the cardinals franchise has a culture of losing and that is very very hard to turn around in a short space of time. i hope for the sake of some of the talented players they have that they can turn it around, and soon. what imtrying to say is, the cards have dissapointed before, and theyll more then likely do it again so dont get your hopes too high

I have high hopes since they replaced Denny Green with Ken Wisenhunt. Wisenhunt has a winning attitude and I see that carrying over to the Cardinals. Also, Matt Leinart is a winner.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 01:37 AM
I have high hopes since they replaced Denny Green with Ken Wisenhunt. Wisenhunt has a winning attitude and I see that carrying over to the Cardinals. Also, Matt Leinart is a winner.

Sweet, so the Cardinals are going to win a lot this year because Ken Whisenhunt has a winning attitude. Do you think coaches have losing attitudes where they encourage their players to half ass every game?

Vikes99ej
08-09-2007, 01:44 AM
I have high hopes since they replaced Denny Green with Ken Wisenhunt. Wisenhunt has a winning attitude and I see that carrying over to the Cardinals. Also, Matt Leinart is a winner.

I love coaches with losing attitudes. Ask David Greene how much winning in college means in the NFL. Might wanna give Jay Cutler a jingle, too.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 01:46 AM
I heard the Patriots were considering cutting Tom brady and signing Chris Weinke because he has success in college.

CC.SD
08-09-2007, 01:49 AM
Suggs did get abused, but I would still take Merriman over him. Two chargers on this list; Castillo is a beast.

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 01:50 AM
Sweet, so the Cardinals are going to win a lot this year because Ken Whisenhunt has a winning attitude. Do you think coaches have losing attitudes where they encourage their players to half ass every game?

You're an idiot. You must be losing sleep knowing first your Twins aren't going anyhwere and now your Vikings aren't going anywhere. The Cards are going, and yes I said going, to make the playoffs.

1. They have a good young quarterback in Matt Leinart.

2. They have three good young wide receivers in Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Johnson.

3. They improved their offensive drafting Levi Brown and getting rid of Vernon Davis.

4. They got steals in Ben Patrick and Alan Branch.

5. They had two consecutive good drafts in '06 and '07.

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 01:53 AM
I heard the Patriots were considering cutting Tom brady and signing Chris Weinke because he has success in college.

Having a winning attitude is the first step to winning. I'm not saying that your entire roster needs to be made up of winners in college. I said Matt Leinart is a winner because he is, and his leadership and footbal i.q. should make him very successful in the NFL. And no, I'm not saying that Jay Cutler won;t do bad in the NFL. It's not his fault that everyone around him sucked.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 01:56 AM
You're an idiot. You must be losing sleep knowing first your Twins aren't going anyhwere and now your Vikings aren't going anywhere. The Cards are going, and yes I said going, to make the playoffs.

1. They have a good young quarterback in Matt Leinart.

2. They have three good young wide receivers in Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Johnson.

3. They improved their offensive drafting Levi Brown and getting rid of Vernon Davis.

4. They got steals in Ben Patrick and Alan Branch.

5. They had two consecutive good drafts in '06 and '07.

Let's see where to begin . . .

1. I'm not a Twins fan
2. I have no idea how you can believe the Cards are going to make the playoffs. You seem to forget to realize that your defense must go on the field as well.
3. Vernon Davis, WTF?
4. Because your 7th round draft pick TE is going to have a HUGE impact in his first year, right.
5. Of course, I haven't slept in a ******* year because the Vikings aren;t as good as the Cardinals. Pull your head out of your ass.

Holy ****, and you called me the god damn idiot.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 01:59 AM
You're an idiot. You must be losing sleep knowing first your Twins aren't going anyhwere and now your Vikings aren't going anywhere. The Cards are going, and yes I said going, to make the playoffs.

1. They have a good young quarterback in Matt Leinart.

2. They have three good young wide receivers in Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Johnson.

3. They improved their offensive drafting Levi Brown and getting rid of Vernon Davis.

4. They got steals in Ben Patrick and Alan Branch.

5. They had two consecutive good drafts in '06 and '07.


No one disrespects the man we call BuckNaked!

I challenge you to a duel good sir!

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 02:01 AM
No one disrespects the man we call BuckNaked!

I challenge you to a dual good sir!

Damn straight, and I think you meant good duel.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 02:03 AM
Damn straight, and I think you meant good duel.

Fixed it, what can you expect for 3 in the morning typing?

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 02:04 AM
Fixed it, what can you expect for 3 in the morning typing?

It's alright, I forgive you.

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 02:10 AM
Let's see where to begin . . .

1. I'm not a Twins fan
2. I have no idea how you can believe the Cards are going to make the playoffs. You seem to forget to realize that your defense must go on the field as well.
3. Vernon Davis, WTF?
4. Because your 7th round draft pick TE is going to have a HUGE impact in his first year, right.
5. Of course, I haven't slept in a ******* year because the Vikings aren;t as good as the Cardinals. Pull your head out of your ass.

Holy ****, and you called me the god damn idiot.

I meant Leonard Davis. You're going to be surprised. I guarantee the Cardinals will make the playoffs. If not, you can make a Fitzgerald11 is an idiot thread and every user on this forum has my permission to give me negative rep. Ben Patrick was supposed to be a Day 1 pick. Alan Branch was thought of as a top 5 pick at one pick. The defense is improving. The Cards have the most underrated safety in Adrian Wilson.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 02:11 AM
I meant Leonard Davis. You're going to be surprised. I guarantee the Cardinals will make the playoffs. If not, you can make a Fitzgerald11 is an idiot thread and every user on this forum has my permission to give me negative rep. Ben Patrick was supposed to be a Day 1 pick. Alan Branch was thought of as a top 5 pick at one pick. The defense is improving. The Cards have the most underrated safety in Adrian Wilson.

My bet is you don't make it on this forum by the end of the season. ;)

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 02:12 AM
I meant Leonard Davis. You're going to be surprised. I guarantee the Cardinals will make the playoffs. If not, you can make a Fitzgerald11 is an idiot thread and every user on this forum has my permission to give me negative rep. Ben Patrick was supposed to be a Day 1 pick. Alan Branch was thought of as a top 5 pick at one pick. The defense is improving. The Cards have the most underrated safety in Adrian Wilson.

Sounds like a plan. If Ben Patrick was supposed to be a day one pick, how did he manage to drop 4 rounds? Also, one player doesn't make you entire defense.

Jensen
08-09-2007, 02:12 AM
You're an idiot. You must be losing sleep knowing first your Twins aren't going anyhwere and now your Vikings aren't going anywhere. The Cards are going, and yes I said going, to make the playoffs.

1. They have a good young quarterback in Matt Leinart.

2. They have three good young wide receivers in Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Johnson.

3. They improved their offensive drafting Levi Brown and getting rid of Vernon Davis.

4. They got steals in Ben Patrick and Alan Branch.

5. They had two consecutive good drafts in '06 and '07.

I'm a Cards fan, but I'm pretty sure they won't be making the playoffs this year. They may finish around 8-8, but I don't think that will be good enough for a playoff spot.

The offense will be improved, but even with Brown we still have one of the worst lines in the NFL. It is improving however, and Brown and Lutiu should be good on the line. Boldin and Fitz will always be top 10 calibre WR's, and Johnson is emerging.

It's Leonard Davis, not Vernon.

Ben Patrick will not play that much this season. Even if he was a steal, he was still drafted in the 7th round and, at best, will split time with Leonard Pope. Pope was drafted in the 3rd round last year and didn't play all that much. Pope is also better in the red zone because of his size. Branch will have to beat out Gabe Watson for the starting spot on the D-Line, which I doubt he will at this point.

Two good drafts in a row does not make a good team. We are getting better, but our O-Line and defense still needs work. Brown and Lutiu are the only bright spots on the O-Line. Dockett, Dansby, and Wilson are the only bright spots on defense. Rolle and Branch could prove to be keepers, but so far Rolle has done nothing to show for why he was selected 8th overall. Other than Dansby and Hayes, our other LB spot is a mess. Our DE's are consitently hurt, and the backup's are nothing special.

Realistically, this team is still a year or two away from being serious contenders for making the playoffs. The O-Line will once again be near the bottom of the league as well as the defense. Until we improve those areas, we're not going to the playoffs.

Fitzgerald11
08-09-2007, 02:18 AM
I'm a Cards fan, but I'm pretty sure they won't be making the playoffs this year. They may finish around 8-8, but I don't think that will be good enough for a playoff spot.

The offense will be improved, but even with Brown we still have one of the worst lines in the NFL. It is improving however, and Brown and Lutiu should be good on the line. Boldin and Fitz will always be top 10 calibre WR's, and Johnson is emerging.

It's Leonard Davis, not Vernon.

Ben Patrick will not play that much this season. Even if he was a steal, he was still drafted in the 7th round and, at best, will split time with Leonard Pope. Pope was drafted in the 3rd round last year and didn't play all that much. Pope is also better in the red zone because of his size. Branch will have to beat out Gabe Watson for the starting spot on the D-Line, which I doubt he will at this point.

Two good drafts in a row does not make a good team. We are getting better, but our O-Line and defense still needs work. Brown and Lutiu are the only bright spots on the O-Line. Dockett, Dansby, and Wilson are the only bright spots on defense. Rolle and Branch could prove to be keepers, but so far Rolle has done nothing to show for why he was selected 8th overall. Other than Dansby and Hayes, our other LB spot is a mess. Our DE's are consitently hurt, and the backup's are nothing special.

Realistically, this team is still a year or two away from being serious contenders for making the playoffs. The O-Line will once again be near the bottom of the league as well as the defense. Until we improve those areas, we're not going to the playoffs.

I'm also a Packers fan so I'm not terribly worried. I think they will also make the playoffs.

And, since none of you think the Cardinals will make the playoffs, I want all of you to give me positive rep if they do.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 02:28 AM
And, since none of you think the Cardinals will make the playoffs, I want all of you to give me positive rep if they do.

How about no.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 02:30 AM
And, since none of you think the Cardinals will make the playoffs, I want all of you to give me positive rep if they do.

How about Hell No!

Crazy_Chris
08-09-2007, 02:45 AM
I'm also a Packers fan so I'm not terribly worried. I think they will also make the playoffs.

And, since none of you think the Cardinals will make the playoffs, I want all of you to give me positive rep if they do.

oh well no wonder you are talking **** about the vikings well hate to break the news to you buddy but niether the Packers nor the cardinals are making the playoffs.

Also, i think you should know your favorite player Larry Fitzgerald was born in minnesota and he too is a viking fan.

yo123
08-09-2007, 02:47 AM
Wow are you a homer. I will give you + rep if they do. Im absolutely positive the Cards wont make the playoffs. And just out of curiousity why do you feel the need to bash others teams when your in an argument that has nothing to do with the team your bashing. Is that insecurity or what?

Sniper
08-09-2007, 02:49 AM
I meant Leonard Davis. You're going to be surprised. I guarantee the Cardinals will make the playoffs. If not, you can make a Fitzgerald11 is an idiot thread and every user on this forum has my permission to give me negative rep. Ben Patrick was supposed to be a Day 1 pick. Alan Branch was thought of as a top 5 pick at one pick. The defense is improving. The Cards have the most underrated safety in Adrian Wilson.

I don't think people are going to need your permission to neg rep you.

Scott Wright
08-09-2007, 03:03 AM
Say goodbye to Fitzgerald11 for a while...

neko4
08-09-2007, 03:06 AM
NFC West's best:
QB's: STL

RB's: STL

WR's: ARI

TE's: SF

OL: SEA

DL: ???

LB: SEA

DB: SF

They aint as good as you think, next year, if Rolle gets good than we could talk ARI playoffs but this year is still a rebuilding year (For the 40th year in a row)

Boston
08-09-2007, 03:07 AM
oh well no wonder you are talking **** about the vikings well hate to break the news to you buddy but niether the Packers nor the cardinals are making the playoffs.

Also, i think you should know your favorite player Larry Fitzgerald was born in minnesota and he too is a viking fan.

Ahahahaha. You stupid Viking fan. I don't have to pose as a Cardinal fan to tell you the Vikings suck, always have sucked, and always will suck.

neko4
08-09-2007, 03:08 AM
Why did the Packers get dragged into this?

neko4
08-09-2007, 03:10 AM
Say goodbye to Fitzgerald11 for a while...

Wow! Scott did you just dish out some hardcore suspensions? I dont think Ive ever seen you do that!

Crazy_Chris
08-09-2007, 03:13 AM
Ahahahaha. You stupid Viking fan. I don't have to pose as a Cardinal fan to tell you the Vikings suck, always have sucked, and always will suck.

im sure you will be saying that this year while peterson is running all over your defense :)

Why did the Packers get dragged into this?
because Fitzgerald11 said he was a packers fan aswell as cardinals

Boston
08-09-2007, 03:15 AM
im sure you will be saying that this year while peterson is running all over your defense :)

I'm trembling in fear...

neko4
08-09-2007, 03:17 AM
im sure you will be saying that this year while peterson is running all over your defense :)
w/e
just get ready to see some of this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m_dQrqiFIKI
and...
http://images.nfl.com/photos/news/img9885882.jpg
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/dec06/x4321_large.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/12/22/topper-favre.jpg

Yall can run it all ya want but ya wont be able to throw, and the defense aint stopping DD, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Vernand, and especially Favre...oh and whos gonna block Kampman??

Crazy_Chris
08-09-2007, 03:21 AM
sorry to tell you that won't happen again.

Sniper
08-09-2007, 03:44 AM
w/e
just get ready to see some of this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m_dQrqiFIKI
and...
http://images.nfl.com/photos/news/img9885882.jpg
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/dec06/x4321_large.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/12/22/topper-favre.jpg

Yall can run it all ya want but ya wont be able to throw, and the defense aint stopping DD, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Vernand, and especially Favre...oh and whos gonna block Kampman??


Vernand? Morency? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow solid joke

Sniper
08-09-2007, 03:45 AM
Say goodbye to Fitzgerald11 for a while...

Droppin' bows baby...Scott Wright is droppin' bows.

Crazy_Chris
08-09-2007, 03:55 AM
Vernand? Morency? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow solid joke

haha i didn't bother reading what he wrote Vernand Morrency and Brandon Jackson will have absolutly no impact.

neko4
08-09-2007, 04:48 AM
Well, Morency played very well last year

EdReedUnstoppable
08-09-2007, 05:29 AM
If Sean Taylor was a LB I would say yes to him, but he is a terrible safety and shouldn't be on the list, and I wouldn't have Hall on the list I think he is the most overrated CB in the game. I know of 2 guys on the Ravens right off the top of my head who should be on the list instead of Taylor and Hall......Suggs and Landry.

Sniper
08-09-2007, 05:36 AM
Well, Morency played very well last year

On what, 95 carries? Chester Taylor dominated him. I'm not even a Vikes fan but your arguments are a tad weak. Running wise this is no competition. Taylor>Morency Peterson>Jackson.

Redskins4Bowl26
08-09-2007, 07:39 AM
I love Taylor's reasoning for number 2.

"Taylor is prone to making mistakes, but his hitting ability makes up for his shortcomings."

Ha. This guy has doesn't understand how to cover, but he hits hard, that makes him a good player, right?


No the guy is an idiot, Sean Taylor can cover. It's just last season if somebody for one ******* second did some research they'd realize that the only legit defensive back in the backfield with him was Carlos Rogers and he was in his first full year of starting. Not to mention we had literally NO pressure with the D-Line The years before that his strongest ability was covering.

cardsalltheway
08-09-2007, 08:48 AM
Because Suggs is a complete linebacker as opposed to the 1 trick pony and STEROID USER Merriman.

Steroid usage is completely irrelevent, Merriman has easily played better than Suggs in his two years so far in the league. He had as many sacks in 12 games last year as Suggs has had the last two years playing every game. He doesn't have a great all-around game right now, but his passrushing alone makes him the most feared defensive player in the NFL. Take a poll of NFL GM's and coaches on who they'd rather have on their team for next year and almost all of them would say Merriman.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 09:02 AM
If Sean Taylor was a LB I would say yes to him, but he is a terrible safety and shouldn't be on the list, and I wouldn't have Hall on the list I think he is the most overrated CB in the game. I know of 2 guys on the Ravens right off the top of my head who should be on the list instead of Taylor and Hall......Suggs and Landry.

I'm not ready to give it to Landry. He had one good year but I think most of his success came from being there on the best defense inm the league. Easy to look good when there is a ton of talent around you.

But I don't like Taylor or Hall either.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 09:03 AM
Why do you have Suggs higher than Merriman? Merriman is arguably the best defensive player in all the NFL, let alone under 25.


I'll take Suggs over Merriman. Any day of the week. It might just be cause I have seen Suggs do some great things and he has more experience.

Not saying Merriman won't be the better player but I'd rather have Suggs now. He can play any OLB or DE position.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 09:05 AM
Suggs, DJ Williams, and Vilma should all be on this list.

iloxygenil
08-09-2007, 09:21 AM
I don't get it...how is Hall too high? He's a Pro Bowler...twice now...one of the top 3 corners in the league easily, and he's too high? You're on some SERIOUS hash man...put the pipe down, if anything you could move Hall up. Taylor imo is too high, but he is a freak.

neko4
08-09-2007, 09:24 AM
On what, 95 carries? Chester Taylor dominated him. I'm not even a Vikes fan but your arguments are a tad weak. Running wise this is no competition. Taylor>Morency Peterson>Jackson.

Vernand/Jackson will do good enough to keep the pressure off of Favre and open things up. They wont be as good as Taylor/AD but they'll do their job well.

Ewing
08-09-2007, 09:32 AM
Because Suggs is a complete linebacker as opposed to the 1 trick pony and STEROID USER Merriman.

Wait you're gonna get on Merriman's nuts for using roids but not Bonds? I'm ashamed to live in the same state as you.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 09:34 AM
Hall is one of the most overrated players in the game today. Everyone thinks he is a great corner because he had a ton of potential but really he hasn't done anything at the pro level. His pro bowls are meaningless and come from fans voting for him because they have heard of him.

He gets burned every time I see him play. I wouldn't rate him in the top 5 of corners let alone top 3.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 09:35 AM
Wait you're gonna get on Merriman's nuts for using roids but not Bonds? I'm ashamed to live in the same state as you.

Bonds would have had a great career with or without them.

Merriman would be nothing without the roids.

Just my opinion though.

Ewing
08-09-2007, 09:38 AM
Also, Matt Leinart is a winner.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/vince.jpg

Say what?

skinzzfan25
08-09-2007, 09:54 AM
Bonds would have had a great career with or without them.

Merriman would be nothing without the roids.

Just my opinion though.

Merriman was a freak at Maryland before his alleged steroid use.

PACKmanN
08-09-2007, 10:07 AM
I like the Cardinals defense when its in a 3-4, they still have some holes(FS, OLB) but if they find a way to get those fixed then what would be wrong with it?

I find it strange that when the Cardinals draft players its always the big name players you hear everywhere, its never the underrated/sleepers.

neko4
08-09-2007, 10:07 AM
Bonds would have had a great career with or without them.

Merriman would be nothing without the roids.

Just my opinion though.

The guy was a beast in a high school and in college

CC.SD
08-09-2007, 10:32 AM
Bonds would have had a great career with or without them.

Merriman would be nothing without the roids.

Just my opinion though.

Merriman has tested cleanly 19 of 20 times since he has been in the league.

Either way, he is one of, if not the most dominant defensive player out there, that doesn't change because of anyone's opinion.

Turtlepower
08-09-2007, 10:36 AM
Merriman has tested cleanly 19 of 20 times since he has been in the league.

Either way, he is one of, if not the most dominant defensive player out there, that doesn't change because of anyone's opinion.

I don't know how anyone can really defend Merriman for testing positive for steroids. Your argument that he tested clearly 19 of 20 times is pointless because it wasn't 20 of 20 times. I didn't see Jason Taylor test positive for steroids or someone else like Michael Strahan. I hate the double-standard that people seem to be okay with steroids in football, but if they are in baseball it is horrible. Steroids are steroids no matter what sport you play and if you cheat to be at the next level then you don't deserve respect or admiration.

remix 6
08-09-2007, 10:39 AM
If Sean Taylor was a LB I would say yes to him, but he is a terrible safety and shouldn't be on the list, and I wouldn't have Hall on the list I think he is the most overrated CB in the game. I know of 2 guys on the Ravens right off the top of my head who should be on the list instead of Taylor and Hall......Suggs and Landry.

how terrible is he in coverage? hes just like Reed except he doesnt come down with as many plays

he has the same problem as Reed. freelancing ..he gets caught out of position. add to that he had 0 help on defense. watch this year.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-09-2007, 10:49 AM
I hate Merriman, but I'd probably take him over Suggs. Suggs is great, but Merriman just dominates. I saw him firsthand twice last year. He is the most dominant pass rusher in the league right now. And yes, he tested positive for roids. So all that means is we can't assume last year was all him unless he repeats the feat without a bad test this year.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 11:12 AM
Merriman was a freak at Maryland before his alleged steroid use.


Again just my opinion but if I had to guess I would say he has been on tem for longer than his pro career. No proof at all but I don't think we would just start doing when he was pro. I think it started probably in his early college years.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 11:12 AM
I hate Merriman, but I'd probably take him over Suggs. Suggs is great, but Merriman just dominates. I saw him firsthand twice last year. He is the most dominant pass rusher in the league right now. And yes, he tested positive for roids. So all that means is we can't assume last year was all him unless he repeats the feat without a bad test this year.

Regardless, Suggs still deserves to be in the top 10.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 11:13 AM
I hate Merriman, but I'd probably take him over Suggs. Suggs is great, but Merriman just dominates. I saw him firsthand twice last year. He is the most dominant pass rusher in the league right now. And yes, he tested positive for roids. So all that means is we can't assume last year was all him unless he repeats the feat without a bad test this year.


Even if he does do that this year how do we know that the roids havn't already taken him to a level he wouldn't have gotten to without them?

Hes not just going to shrink in one year without taking them.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Even if he does do that this year how do we know that the roids havn't already taken him to a level he wouldn't have gotten to without them?

Hes not just going to shrink in one year without taking them.

The effects of steroids do wear off, I believe. It's not a splash and you're good for life. If they were still having an effect, they'd still show up on tests.

Smooth Criminal
08-09-2007, 11:25 AM
Not true at all actually. They do wear off but it isn't immediate or even fast. The effect of roids take years to wear off and you can make it take even longer by still working out heavily without them. The test result goes away well before the amount of muscle you put on because of it goes away.

Look at Bonds. He is still huge and still has power but there is no way he can still be using without getting caught at this point.

SubNoize
08-09-2007, 12:04 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/vince.jpg

Say what?

yeah lets just forget about these right????

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=a&d=us&s=a&c=p&ti=1&ai=30752&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a30052d&ip=48a5bd22&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages% 2F40690000%2Fjpg%2F_40690147_leinart203.jpg

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=a&d=us&s=a&c=p&ti=1&ai=30752&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a30052d&ip=48a5bd22&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.lawrence.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2 F2004%2F12%2F12%2Fsptslien_t180.jpg

cardsalltheway
08-09-2007, 01:15 PM
I'll take Suggs over Merriman. Any day of the week. It might just be cause I have seen Suggs do some great things and he has more experience.

Not saying Merriman won't be the better player but I'd rather have Suggs now. He can play any OLB or DE position.

Merriman can too. Just because he doesn't play in a hybrid defense doesn't mean he couldn't, he played DE in college.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Not true at all actually. They do wear off but it isn't immediate or even fast. The effect of roids take years to wear off and you can make it take even longer by still working out heavily without them. The test result goes away well before the amount of muscle you put on because of it goes away.

Look at Bonds. He is still huge and still has power but there is no way he can still be using without getting caught at this point.

I stand corrected then. But with Bonds, he can still be using. The MLB tests for steroids, but doesn't do the test that can catch HGH or the designer high end BALCO stuff.

Ewing
08-09-2007, 02:11 PM
yeah lets just forget about these right????

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=a&d=us&s=a&c=p&ti=1&ai=30752&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a30052d&ip=48a5bd22&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages% 2F40690000%2Fjpg%2F_40690147_leinart203.jpg

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=a&d=us&s=a&c=p&ti=1&ai=30752&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a30052d&ip=48a5bd22&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.lawrence.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2 F2004%2F12%2F12%2Fsptslien_t180.jpg

The Heisman Trophy; Given to such greats as Charlie Ward, Jason White, Danny Wuerffel and Rashaan Salaam. That's some elite company he's hanging with. Leinart acted like a child after USC lost to Texas. He can't take losing but he better get used to it playing in Arizona.

TheMikey10
08-09-2007, 02:15 PM
I agree with merriman being number one, barring injuries that cut his career short, he will likely break the alltime sack record

cardsalltheway
08-09-2007, 02:16 PM
The Heisman Trophy; Given to such greats as Charlie Ward, Jason White, Danny Wuerffel and Rashaan Salaam.

Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Tim Brown, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen, OJ Simpson, Roger Staubach, Carson Palmer, Charles Woodson, Eddie George. I can list names that have absolutely nothing to do with how good Matt Leinart is/will be too!

Ewing
08-09-2007, 02:24 PM
Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Tim Brown, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen, OJ Simpson, Roger Staubach, Carson Palmer, Charles Woodson, Eddie George. I can list names that have absolutely nothing to do with how good Matt Leinart is/will be too!

I was just pointing out that the Heisman trophy has nothing to do with success. The guys you mentioned all had good careers but there are still all out failures. As for Leinart, yeah he might put up some good numbers but he will never ever make it past the first round of the playoffs while he is wearing a Cardinals uniform.

SubNoize
08-09-2007, 02:27 PM
The Heisman Trophy; Given to such greats as Charlie Ward, Jason White, Danny Wuerffel and Rashaan Salaam. That's some elite company he's hanging with. Leinart acted like a child after USC lost to Texas. He can't take losing but he better get used to it playing in Arizona.

Charlie Ward led FSU to a Natl. Title, can't really talk about a football career that never was seeing how he went to the NBA instead...

TitleTown088
08-09-2007, 02:35 PM
Because Suggs is a complete linebacker as opposed to the 1 trick pony and STEROID USER Merriman.
Says the man with a pro Barry Bonds comment in his sig... haha.

wiscbadgerfootball
08-09-2007, 02:36 PM
I agree with merriman being number one, barring injuries that cut his career short, he will likely break the alltime sack record

ahh you takeded me siggy..

give credit please?

JK17
08-09-2007, 02:38 PM
I don't know how anyone can really defend Merriman for testing positive for steroids. Your argument that he tested clearly 19 of 20 times is pointless because it wasn't 20 of 20 times. I didn't see Jason Taylor test positive for steroids or someone else like Michael Strahan. I hate the double-standard that people seem to be okay with steroids in football, but if they are in baseball it is horrible. Steroids are steroids no matter what sport you play and if you cheat to be at the next level then you don't deserve respect or admiration.

The 19 out of 20 times argument was in response to someone saying Merriman would have been nothing without steroids, which is ridiculous. Merriman was tested during his rookie year, where he was electric as well. He wasn't dirty then, according to the steroid tests, and my guess is, if he has been tested twenty times, they weren't all administered in one week, they were spread out over his two-year career so far. If he tests negative nineteen times, I'm not saying he was clean when he failed, but you don't think its possible that Merriman was actaully a victim of a tainted supplement? It may not be the whole truth, but its certainly a possibility that he did do no harm, and even if he did intentionally take steroids, which I in no way support, condone, or endorse, he didn't do it his rookie year, or he would have failed some of those tests, which is what I believe ChargerCohen was trying to show, is that he is effective without "the juice".

And if you think that those negative tests, all nineteen of them, were faked, then it must be fairly easy to trick, or hide from testing positive, which would lead me to wonder why so many people are willing to say freaks like Taylor, Suggs, or Strahan have't tricked the system as well. If you are assuming (although you haven't said so, others in the thread have) that Merriman has taken these drugs since high school, then he managed to go through his entire college career without it showing up on the radar, and 95% of his NFL Drug tests without anyone detecting it. That would mean, assuming he was tested a couple times in college, he has close to a 99% success rate at cheating the tests. If he can do that, what makes all the other people who have ragged on Merriman believe no one else in the NFL, specifically Strahan, Taylor, etc. can cheat the system?

So either it is very easy to cheat the system, and most players are probably doing it, especially the successful ones, or, maybe Merriman had a tainted supplement that he unknowingly took, without intending to cheat. Either way, Merriman's either keeping up with all the other competition around him, or made an honest mistake that he doesn't deserve to be chastised for.

BuckNaked
08-09-2007, 02:50 PM
The 19 out of 20 times argument was in response to someone saying Merriman would have been nothing without steroids, which is ridiculous. Merriman was tested during his rookie year, where he was electric as well. He wasn't dirty then, according to the steroid tests, and my guess is, if he has been tested twenty times, they weren't all administered in one week, they were spread out over his two-year career so far. If he tests negative nineteen times, I'm not saying he was clean when he failed, but you don't think its possible that Merriman was actaully a victim of a tainted supplement? It may not be the whole truth, but its certainly a possibility that he did do no harm, and even if he did intentionally take steroids, which I in no way support, condone, or endorse, he didn't do it his rookie year, or he would have failed some of those tests, which is what I believe ChargerCohen was trying to show, is that he is effective without "the juice".

And if you think that those negative tests, all nineteen of them, were faked, then it must be fairly easy to trick, or hide from testing positive, which would lead me to wonder why so many people are willing to say freaks like Taylor, Suggs, or Strahan have't tricked the system as well. If you are assuming (although you haven't said so, others in the thread have) that Merriman has taken these drugs since high school, then he managed to go through his entire college career without it showing up on the radar, and 95% of his NFL Drug tests without anyone detecting it. That would mean, assuming he was tested a couple times in college, he has close to a 99% success rate at cheating the tests. If he can do that, what makes all the other people who have ragged on Merriman believe no one else in the NFL, specifically Strahan, Taylor, etc. can cheat the system?

So either it is very easy to cheat the system, and most players are probably doing it, especially the successful ones, or, maybe Merriman had a tainted supplement that he unknowingly took, without intending to cheat. Either way, Merriman's either keeping up with all the other competition around him, or made an honest mistake that he doesn't deserve to be chastised for.

I wonder if anybody else besides Onterrio Smith uses the whizzinator.

JoeMontainya
08-09-2007, 03:43 PM
Taylor gave up the 2nd most recieving TD's in the entire NFL next to the Saints CB Thomas, so how does that warrant Taylor being #2 on that list? You honestly think his hype threw college earned him this? Because other than being a hard hitter, he hasnt proven much other than that in the NFL so far. He might be the WORSTE coverage safety in the entire NFL that recieves steady playing time.

Man_Of_Steel
08-09-2007, 04:17 PM
How old is Suggs, I think hes still under 25 he should be on there.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 04:32 PM
Wow, where's the outrage about Merriman using steroids? I made the comment because of all the ridiculous statements coming forth about Barry Bonds, it just once again shows my point about the hypocritical nature of sports fans.

bearsfan_51
08-09-2007, 05:03 PM
The Redskins should have taken Tommie Harris back in 2004. That was the player they were rumored to have debated between. Not that Taylor is a bad player at all, obviously he's not, but now they have two safties to build around and still have nobody on their defensive line.

Ewing
08-09-2007, 06:07 PM
Wow, where's the outrage about Merriman using steroids? I made the comment because of all the ridiculous statements coming forth about Barry Bonds, it just once again shows my point about the hypocritical nature of sports fans.

No, it shows the hypocritical nature of you. Here you are blasting Merriman but you're supporting Barry Bonds. Why do you continue to cheer for Barry Bonds? That's all I wanna know.

skinzzfan25
08-09-2007, 06:15 PM
The Redskins should have taken Tommie Harris back in 2004. That was the player they were rumored to have debated between. Not that Taylor is a bad player at all, obviously he's not, but now they have two safties to build around and still have nobody on their defensive line.

I wouldn't have minded taking Harris. Him and Griffen would be nasty together on the line. But at the time we really needed secondary help.

no love
08-09-2007, 07:10 PM
You're an idiot. You must be losing sleep knowing first your Twins aren't going anyhwere and now your Vikings aren't going anywhere. The Cards are going, and yes I said going, to make the playoffs.

1. They have a good young quarterback in Matt Leinart.

2. They have three good young wide receivers in Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Johnson.

3. They improved their offensive drafting Levi Brown and getting rid of Vernon Davis.

4. They got steals in Ben Patrick and Alan Branch.

5. They had two consecutive good drafts in '06 and '07.

Eh. Thats a mighty large order. The NFC West will be one of the more competitive divisions because the level of talent is so similar across the board. You are in yr one of a new offense and defense with some very young players. The cards are getting better, but I don't think playoffs this year.

Oh. And next year. P Willis will be on this list!

SenorGato
08-09-2007, 07:12 PM
Seriously, Suggs is 24, what the hell was this dude thinking?

QFT.

The list is a joke without Suggs. He's been a kickass player for 4 years now, and he's not even 25 yet.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 07:16 PM
No, it shows the hypocritical nature of you. Here you are blasting Merriman but you're supporting Barry Bonds. Why do you continue to cheer for Barry Bonds? That's all I wanna know.

I'm not bashing Merriman, I just don't see why he gets so much love for being a 1 trick pony? Yes he is amazing at rushing the passer, but so far thats it while Suggs as become a complete linebacker and doesn't get nearly enough recognition. Pointing out Merriman's steroid use is a no brainer since he actually tested positive for them where as Barry never has. I root for Bonds because he's one of the best all time. He's never tested positive for steroids yet everyone assumes he has done them, and no sealed court documents that were illegally obtained are not proof. Yet Merriman was suspended for steroids and everyone looks the other way and doesn't care as long as he's racking up sacks game in and game out. That's hypocritical.

no love
08-09-2007, 07:34 PM
The 19 out of 20 times argument was in response to someone saying Merriman would have been nothing without steroids, which is ridiculous. Merriman was tested during his rookie year, where he was electric as well. He wasn't dirty then, according to the steroid tests, and my guess is, if he has been tested twenty times, they weren't all administered in one week, they were spread out over his two-year career so far. If he tests negative nineteen times, I'm not saying he was clean when he failed, but you don't think its possible that Merriman was actaully a victim of a tainted supplement? It may not be the whole truth, but its certainly a possibility that he did do no harm, and even if he did intentionally take steroids, which I in no way support, condone, or endorse, he didn't do it his rookie year, or he would have failed some of those tests, which is what I believe ChargerCohen was trying to show, is that he is effective without "the juice".

And if you think that those negative tests, all nineteen of them, were faked, then it must be fairly easy to trick, or hide from testing positive, which would lead me to wonder why so many people are willing to say freaks like Taylor, Suggs, or Strahan have't tricked the system as well. If you are assuming (although you haven't said so, others in the thread have) that Merriman has taken these drugs since high school, then he managed to go through his entire college career without it showing up on the radar, and 95% of his NFL Drug tests without anyone detecting it. That would mean, assuming he was tested a couple times in college, he has close to a 99% success rate at cheating the tests. If he can do that, what makes all the other people who have ragged on Merriman believe no one else in the NFL, specifically Strahan, Taylor, etc. can cheat the system?

So either it is very easy to cheat the system, and most players are probably doing it, especially the successful ones, or, maybe Merriman had a tainted supplement that he unknowingly took, without intending to cheat. Either way, Merriman's either keeping up with all the other competition around him, or made an honest mistake that he doesn't deserve to be chastised for.

Yes. And Bonds thought he was taking flax seed oil. Common, I am a Giants fan and I can see through those arguments. He was effective without the juice. But we will never know if he would have been as dominant as he was last year without the juice. I mean really... 10 sacks in 15 games is A LOT different than 17 sacks in 12 games. Had he played all 16 games he was on track to beat the all time single season sack record. That is a scary thought, that the all-time sack record would have to have an asterisk on it.

And for the record there is still no perfect test for HGH so he may still be juicing along with a lot of others. Do we forgive him because he may have just done it to keep up with the other competition? NO! Just like people will never forgive Bonds.

Ewing
08-09-2007, 10:16 PM
I'm not bashing Merriman, I just don't see why he gets so much love for being a 1 trick pony? Yes he is amazing at rushing the passer, but so far thats it while Suggs as become a complete linebacker and doesn't get nearly enough recognition. Pointing out Merriman's steroid use is a no brainer since he actually tested positive for them where as Barry never has. I root for Bonds because he's one of the best all time. He's never tested positive for steroids yet everyone assumes he has done them, and no sealed court documents that were illegally obtained are not proof. Yet Merriman was suspended for steroids and everyone looks the other way and doesn't care as long as he's racking up sacks game in and game out. That's hypocritical.

You wanna know people look the other way with Merriman and not Bonds? Because Merriman isn't a prick to everyone on the planet. Bonds was an a-hole to begin with and the roids issue only made people dislike him more.

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 10:20 PM
You wanna know people look the other way with Merriman and not Bonds? Because Merriman isn't a prick to everyone on the planet. Bonds was an a-hole to begin with and the roids issue only made people dislike him more.

Personality has nothing to do with his abilities on the ball field.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, this list is a joke with Suggs on it.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-09-2007, 10:24 PM
for sure last year

Morrison= 102 total tackles
Hawk= 119 total tackles (rookie year)Kirk Morrison 116 tackles (rookie year)

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-09-2007, 10:30 PM
Why do you have Suggs higher than Merriman? Merriman is arguably the best defensive player in all the NFL, let alone under 25.
Burgess>Merriman.

bored of education
08-09-2007, 10:31 PM
Jarrad Page, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Bernard Pollard, Tank Tyler and Claude Turk mcBride will be on the list next year

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-09-2007, 10:34 PM
I'm not bashing Merriman, I just don't see why he gets so much love for being a 1 trick pony? Yes he is amazing at rushing the passer, but so far thats it while Suggs as become a complete linebacker and doesn't get nearly enough recognition. Pointing out Merriman's steroid use is a no brainer since he actually tested positive for them where as Barry never has. I root for Bonds because he's one of the best all time. He's never tested positive for steroids yet everyone assumes he has done them, and no sealed court documents that were illegally obtained are not proof. Yet Merriman was suspended for steroids and everyone looks the other way and doesn't care as long as he's racking up sacks game in and game out. That's hypocritical.
Yeah I guess his head swelled two hat sizes for no reason.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-09-2007, 10:35 PM
Jarrad Page, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Bernard Pollard, Tank Tyler and Claude Turk mcBride will be on the list next year
thats pretty funny.

wiscbadgerfootball
08-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Kirk Morrison 116 tackles (rookie year)

Hawk was still better...

BigDawg819
08-09-2007, 10:42 PM
Yeah I guess his head swelled two hat sizes for no reason.

Ego my friend ego! :D

JK17
08-09-2007, 11:14 PM
Yes. And Bonds thought he was taking flax seed oil. Common, I am a Giants fan and I can see through those arguments. He was effective without the juice. But we will never know if he would have been as dominant as he was last year without the juice. I mean really... 10 sacks in 15 games is A LOT different than 17 sacks in 12 games. Had he played all 16 games he was on track to beat the all time single season sack record. That is a scary thought, that the all-time sack record would have to have an asterisk on it.

And for the record there is still no perfect test for HGH so he may still be juicing along with a lot of others. Do we forgive him because he may have just done it to keep up with the other competition? NO! Just like people will never forgive Bonds.

Yeah, but then the point is he must have found a way to cheat the system, and I doubt he's the only one, so people really need to choose. Either Merriman made a simple mistake, or he's not the only one whose cheating the system.

Edit: Also, in regards to forgiving him, I didn't mean to sound like you had to either forgive him, or let it slide or anything, but I can't stand people saying look at Taylor, Strahan, Suggs, when if Merriman allegedly cheated the system as many times as those people say he did (19), then how can they think its not impossible for the other superstars to do it. That's not defending steroids, but in the era of sports in general, not just football, its ignorant to chastise one player for doing something everyone else is. That doesn't make the player right, but don't degrade him as a player, and praise someone else who is probable/likely to be doing the same thing.

JK17
08-09-2007, 11:19 PM
I'm not bashing Merriman, I just don't see why he gets so much love for being a 1 trick pony? Yes he is amazing at rushing the passer, but so far thats it while Suggs as become a complete linebacker and doesn't get nearly enough recognition. Pointing out Merriman's steroid use is a no brainer since he actually tested positive for them where as Barry never has. I root for Bonds because he's one of the best all time. He's never tested positive for steroids yet everyone assumes he has done them, and no sealed court documents that were illegally obtained are not proof. Yet Merriman was suspended for steroids and everyone looks the other way and doesn't care as long as he's racking up sacks game in and game out. That's hypocritical.

First of all, Merriman does a fine job shutting down the run as well, and his impact as a pass-rusher outweighs the fact that he is not needed in the pass coverage aspect of the game. I'm almost 100% positive you would have full-fledged support of Merriman were he on the Ravnes instead of Suggs...The only reason you have such an objection to Merriman is that the consensus is he is better then Suggs, and you can't stand that...look at some of your arguments...

Everyone looks the other way? Merriman has become the poster-child for steroids in the NFL. Everytime he is mentioned in a thread a steroids debate blows up. People don't care just because he's racking up sacks? Everything he does now is being tainted because he is the only one who got "caught". No one is looking the other way, but its the only way you can knock Merriman down, so Suggs is raised up. You're clearly looking the other way on Bonds' steroid usage, so don't pretend like its this huge deal for you that he failed a steroid test.

Edit: Also, by the way, Suggs certainly does belong on this list, but don't act like Merriman hasn't justified his spot on it. It's one guys opinion, not the world's and you can certainly make a case for it.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-09-2007, 11:28 PM
Hawk was still better...for one year Morrison's been good for two.

Sniper
08-09-2007, 11:55 PM
Yeah I guess his head swelled two hat sizes for no reason.

You mean yours doesn't?

yo123
08-10-2007, 01:09 AM
Burgess>Merriman.



stop...just stop

Shiver
08-10-2007, 01:25 AM
I'm not bashing Merriman, I just don't see why he gets so much love for being a 1 trick pony? Yes he is amazing at rushing the passer, but so far thats it while Suggs as become a complete linebacker and doesn't get nearly enough recognition.


Where is this notion of Merriman being a sub-par run defender coming from? It really baffles me. It couldn't be further from the truth.

yo123
08-10-2007, 01:26 AM
Where is this notion of Merriman being a sub-par run defender coming from? It really baffles me. It couldn't be further from the truth.



Remember hes a Ravens fan... could be why hes defending suggs.

BigDawg819
08-10-2007, 01:27 AM
Remember hes a Ravens fan... could be why hes defending suggs.

Ravens' fan or not Suggs deserves to be on that list and deserves more attention then he's given.

yo123
08-10-2007, 01:29 AM
Sure he deserves to be on the list, but I really dont think hes better than Merriman.

BigDawg819
08-10-2007, 01:33 AM
Sure he deserves to be on the list, but I really dont think hes better than Merriman.

Suggs has become a complete linebacker, he rushes the passer, supports the run, and can drop back into coverage. Merriman hasn't proven to be able to do all that as well as Suggs has.

goodlookin
08-10-2007, 01:47 AM
suggs is a more complete linebacker, that finger tip interception a year or two ago was just ridiculous. i know its stupid to cite one play but he can rush and defend the pass, merriman just goes full tilt off the edge everytime. Also merriman;s nonsense is weak, celebrating after hurrying brady in the playoff's...wilfork is obviously a call away from dancing with the stars

SenorGato
08-10-2007, 03:34 AM
I think Suggs' big advantage over Merriman is that he can drop back in coverage. Both play the run about equally well, and both are excellent pass rushers.

Honestly, Suggs is becoming one of the most underrated young players in the game.

Caddy
08-10-2007, 04:05 AM
Defense is all about big plays and statistics. Merriman is a great pass rusher and his stats reflect that. He may not be as complete as Suggs is but he is more dominant.

The Legend
08-10-2007, 04:14 AM
i got hawk over ryans

JK17
08-10-2007, 10:03 AM
suggs is a more complete linebacker, that finger tip interception a year or two ago was just ridiculous. i know its stupid to cite one play but he can rush and defend the pass, merriman just goes full tilt off the edge everytime. Also merriman;s nonsense is weak, celebrating after hurrying brady in the playoff's...wilfork is obviously a call away from dancing with the stars

I was debating if I should even bother responding to this but I figured I would. My first guess, which I know I'm correct on, is you've watched next to no games if you think all Merriman does is rush off the edge every time. First of all its not true, second of all, if it was you could book him for having the single-season sack record already. Second of all Merriman's nonsense is weak? What is he the only player who celebrates? Not to mention there was an article out the other day with him saying how he was done celebrating, he doesn't wanna be tagged as an ego, and he wants to be more about the team, so spare me the Merriman has an ego deal. Not to mention I forgot how classy the Patriots were that game....

JK17
08-10-2007, 10:06 AM
Suggs has become a complete linebacker, he rushes the passer, supports the run, and can drop back into coverage. Merriman hasn't proven to be able to do all that as well as Suggs has.

Merriman rushes the passer better then Suggs. You cannot deny that. He also supports the run just as well as Suggs. I'm guessing just like I Haven't seen very many Ravens games, you have not seen many Charger games and just assume that since he rushes the passer so well, he cannot possibly stop the run, which is just untrue. Suggs covers the pass better, which chops them down the middle in these categories.


Which would be all well and good, but you're also forgetting that this isn't the top 10 Under 25 linebackers, its the top ten under 25 defensive players. Which means its looking at the players impact, not their abilities at LB. Merriman is a blitzer/run stopper, and that's what he's used for in San Diego's 3-4, so really being a complete LB is irrelevant in this argument.

OhioState
08-10-2007, 10:11 AM
i got hawk over ryans

agreed (ten)

Shiver
08-10-2007, 12:04 PM
Suggs has become a complete linebacker, he rushes the passer, supports the run, and can drop back into coverage. Merriman hasn't proven to be able to do all that as well as Suggs has.

You completely ignored my question. What evidence do you have that Merriman isn't a complete LB? Or "one dimensional" as you say. I would love to read some sources that support your claims, otherwise you are just making up things so that you can back your guy.


I know for a fact that Pro Football Prospectus' stats show that Shawne Merriman is a dominant run defender. In fact, he rates ahead of Suggs in every statistical category including Run Stop %, Run Yards per Tackle average and even pass coverage. Let's not even get into the sack counts, QB hurries and QB hits.

jbombul
08-14-2007, 11:34 AM
wheres ernie sims on this list? my top 10 would look like this...

1.merriman
2.suggs
3.harris
4.hawk
5.sims
6.ryans
7.morrison
8.taylor
9.castillo
10.hall

steel man
08-16-2007, 03:56 PM
i have not read all 7 pages but has anyone said Troy P. for Pittsburgh

remix 6
08-16-2007, 05:22 PM
i have not read all 7 pages but has anyone said Troy P. for Pittsburgh

maybe because hes 26 years old?

born in '81

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-16-2007, 06:18 PM
stop...just stop
umm no.Burgess unlike Merriman hasnt taken steroids and yet he still has just as many sacks as him.Not to mention Burgess doesnt get to play agaisnt Oakland.Merriman gets to play against our Oline twice.

Ravens1991
08-16-2007, 08:43 PM
Merriman rushes the passer better then Suggs. You cannot deny that. He also supports the run just as well as Suggs. I'm guessing just like I Haven't seen very many Ravens games, you have not seen many Charger games and just assume that since he rushes the passer so well, he cannot possibly stop the run, which is just untrue. Suggs covers the pass better, which chops them down the middle in these categories.


Which would be all well and good, but you're also forgetting that this isn't the top 10 Under 25 linebackers, its the top ten under 25 defensive players. Which means its looking at the players impact, not their abilities at LB. Merriman is a blitzer/run stopper, and that's what he's used for in San Diego's 3-4, so really being a complete LB is irrelevant in this argument.

Suggs is still probably a top 3 3-4 OLB and a beastly DE, to have Ngata on the list and Suggs not a head of him is a joke. Suggs is better then Ngata at this point and Ngata did preety darn well last year.

Moses
08-16-2007, 10:33 PM
Merriman is one of the best defenders in the league, period. I can only think of a handful of guys I would rate ahead of him. He's essentially the perfect player for his position and he has to be game planned for. People overrate statistics like tackles sometimes. Merriman makes game changing plays. He attacks the line of scrimmage and makes meaningful tackles. He doesn't sit and wait and allow runners to gain 5 yards and then chase them down.

Play Hard
01-03-2008, 09:33 PM
for sure last year

Morrison= 102 total tackles
Hawk= 119 total tackles (rookie year)

Hawk TTL TKL'S SACKS INT

2006 121 3.5 2

2007 105 1.0 1


Morrison
2006 128 1.0 2

2007 121 1.0 4

Xiomera
01-03-2008, 09:35 PM
No list is complete without Ernie Sims. The man is a beast, and he plays for the lowly Lions. That is a combination not often seen . . .

ny10804
01-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Hawk TTL TKL'S SACKS INT

2006 121 3.5 2

2007 105 1.0 1


Morrison
2006 128 1.0 2

2007 121 1.0 4

Hawk's play making opportunities were severely limited this year. His play allowed Nick Barnett to have a career year.

... But some fans, myself included, wished Hawk could have done more. He's still very very good though.

Nitschke-Hawk
01-03-2008, 09:43 PM
Kirk Morrison is the middle linebacker in the middle of a bad defense. I like him, I really do, but the tackles Hawk gets at Outside Linebacker with a top 5 Middle Linebacker (Nick Barnett) next to him on a top 5 defense is pretty impressive. Ryan Pickett, Aaron Kampman are always at the top of their positions in tackles too. If the Green Bay Defense was built around Hawk right now he'd be putting up crazy numbers. He does a lot of the dirty work for the Green Bay Defense.

bored of education
01-03-2008, 09:43 PM
Jared Allen anyone?

Yung Flippa
01-03-2008, 09:46 PM
Mario Williams, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Patrick Willis, Aj Hawk, Kirk Morrison, Demeco Ryans, LaRon Landry, Shawne Merriman.

bored of education
01-03-2008, 09:52 PM
WOOPS Jared Allen just turned 25 this past year. Because he is the best 25 and under DE in the league. Top 3 at the postion. Gets the sacks, FF, supports the run, plays 3 downs, plays offense, a non stop motor, can bull rush and dip off the edge. Top 3 easily at DE

EdReedUnstoppable
01-03-2008, 09:56 PM
I meant Leonard Davis. You're going to be surprised. I guarantee the Cardinals will make the playoffs. If not, you can make a Fitzgerald11 is an idiot thread and every user on this forum has my permission to give me negative rep. Ben Patrick was supposed to be a Day 1 pick. Alan Branch was thought of as a top 5 pick at one pick. The defense is improving. The Cards have the most underrated safety in Adrian Wilson.

Can we make this happen?

bored of education
01-03-2008, 10:00 PM
Can we make this happen?

OMGG hahah GREATNESS IN ACTION!

BlindSite
01-04-2008, 02:22 AM
I think beason is better than Ryans, or will be when he reaches his experience and imo Willis is already better than tatupu, ryans and hawk.

Ewing
01-04-2008, 02:27 AM
Can we make this happen?

If we don't do it then I'll make bull**** guarantees every year since I know I won't have to back up.

Jughead10
01-04-2008, 07:34 AM
WOOPS Jared Allen just turned 25 this past year. Because he is the best 25 and under DE in the league. Top 3 at the postion. Gets the sacks, FF, supports the run, plays 3 downs, plays offense, a non stop motor, can bull rush and dip off the edge. Top 3 easily at DE

If we are saying 25 and under, Demarcus Ware has to be there as well. I always think about this for some reason. Both Ware and Osi went to Troy. They also both went to Auburn High School. It amazes me how Auburn could have missed out on both of these guy who went on to become two of the best passrushers in the NFL, when they played in high school right under their nose.

BufFan71
01-04-2008, 08:05 AM
What about Donte Whitner?

CC.SD
01-04-2008, 10:15 AM
What about Donte Whitner?

This thread is called "Top 10 under 25 on defense." What about Donte Whitner?


Yes, I've seen him play. Not bad. Not top ten.

BamaFalcon59
01-04-2008, 10:44 AM
DeAngelo Hall should be between one and three.

bored of education
01-04-2008, 10:46 AM
So number 2????

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-04-2008, 12:07 PM
Can we make this happen?

Normally I'd say yes, but he's already banned.

skinzzfan25
01-04-2008, 02:02 PM
So number 2????

This was posted in August.

Some dude bumped it though.....

mqtirishfan
01-04-2008, 05:49 PM
God, the Packer hate in this thread is hilarious.