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dre1614
08-11-2007, 10:42 AM
This is just one mans opinion, but he seemed to put alot of thought into it.

Its based mostly on stats FYI

http://www.armchairgm.com/index.php?title=The_100_Greatest_Quarterbacks_of_t he_Modern_Era

His top 20

#1 Johnny Unitas
#2 Joe Montana
#3 Fran Tarkenton
#4 Dan Marino
#5 John Elway
#6 Steve Young
#7 Ken Anderson
#8 Dan Fouts
#9 Brett Favre
#10 Roger Staubach
#11 Sonny Jurgensen
#12 Len Dawson
#13 Bart Starr
#14 Warren Moon
#15 Peyton Manning
#16 Roman Gabriel
#17 Norm Van brocklin
#18 Y.A. Tittle
#19 Terry Bradshaw
#20 Bob Griese

Not Ranked are Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman

Those three are not ranked, as they played most (if not all) of their career before the 1950 cutoff date, but all three would rank in the Top 20 if their pre-1950 stats were included.

Its pretty interesting, and obviously no list is 100% accurate, and there are going to be people who disagree, with any list, but i thought he did a good job with it.

Oh and he gives a description on each QB also if you go to the site.


ps:

The Rankings

Today, we're going to look at the most valuable quarterbacks since 1950. For every QB, I added up their career PAR totals, which served as a starting point, and I then added bonus points for postseason success, including Super Bowl wins, NFL or AFL Championship Game victories, and (least of all) Super Bowl losses. Of course, I didn't slavishly follow the resulting list when formulating my Top 100, but the results do factor heavily into my final list of the top quarterbacks since 1950. Now, to the rankings!

(Note: The stats on this page have been normalized to 2006's environment, and all seasons -- including the strike year in 1982 -- were pro-rated to a 16-game schedule. For instance, I know that Johnny Unitas did not throw for more than 4,000 yards in 1957, but his 2,550 yards that year are equivalent to 4,339 in 2006. For more information about PAR and the other advanced stats below, go here. Also, credit for the database is due to Doug Drinen and the great folks at Pro-Football-Reference. You guys rock!)

skinzzfan25
08-11-2007, 10:53 AM
Mark 'Noodle Arm' Brunell at 23.

haahhaaaha. I mean I know he was pretty good with the Jags, but no way should he be above Cunningham, Esiason or Simms.

Splat
08-11-2007, 11:06 AM
I love Johnny U as much as the next guy but #1?

1.Joe Montana
2.John Elway
3.Dan Marino

I left off any one playing right now but Manning and Brady are flying up the list each year.

SubNoize
08-11-2007, 11:11 AM
wow half of those QBs played for Oak when they started sucking...

JK17
08-11-2007, 11:21 AM
Wow, that looks like it just might have taken a while for him to do...

Right or wrong, that's some impressive effort

tylerb929
08-11-2007, 11:21 AM
His method for adjusting stats is pretty dumb. Stats are stats for a reason, they are facts, its what really happened, you don't use multipliers and factors to adjust them and claim them as stats. The whole method is pretty dumb.

You can't claim a certain QB would throw X amount of TDs in todays game due to this or that, he didn't do it back then so you can't claim he'd do it today.

JK17
08-11-2007, 11:27 AM
His method for adjusting stats is pretty dumb. Stats are stats for a reason, they are facts, its what really happened, you don't use multipliers and factors to adjust them and claim them as stats. The whole method is pretty dumb.

You can't claim a certain QB would throw X amount of TDs in todays game due to this or that, he didn't do it back then so you can't claim he'd do it today.

Well using stats as a sole justification for anything is dumb, just like you can't assume QB X would have thrown 40 TD's were he playing in 2006, you can't assume QB Y is better then him because he did, despite playing in a much better era for passers, with more games, and more developed offenses. Which is why stats should be minimal in justification of rankings like these.

But in terms of extrapolating, adjusting, and doing whatever else he had to do with those stats, he sure as hell put in a lot of work to do it, even if its wrong.

BuckNaked
08-11-2007, 11:31 AM
Love how he's got Tarkenton at #3. Even though he probably doesn't deserve to be there.

princefielder28
08-11-2007, 11:51 AM
hmmmmm.....Favre at 9

Ward
08-11-2007, 12:36 PM
If someone can't explain to me where Troy Aikman is on this list, I'm just going to close it.

princefielder28
08-11-2007, 12:37 PM
If someone can't explain to me where Troy Aikman is on this list, I'm just going to close it.

he's number 33

BuckNaked
08-11-2007, 12:39 PM
If someone can't explain to me where Troy Aikman is on this list, I'm just going to close it.

Maybe somebody can explain to me why Aaron Brooks and Jake Plummer are on this list.

dre1614
08-11-2007, 12:43 PM
Maybe somebody can explain to me why Aaron Brooks and Jake Plummer are on this list.

#97: Aaron Brooks - Brooksie's career as a viable starter is most likely over after last year's debacle in Oakland, but for a time, he was a pretty decent QB who could run and pass a little. Admittedly, his best seasons (2001-2004) look better on paper than they did in real life, but even Football Outsiders saw his 2003 as being very good. And they hate Aaron Brooks!

#91: Jake Plummer - Jake The Snake's 1999 season with Arizona is the second-worst quarterbacking season since 1950. It's actually amazing that he was able to bounce back from it to become a pretty good starter later in his career.

nobodyinparticular
08-11-2007, 01:12 PM
Interesting to see Gannon and Stabler back to back at 35 and 36.

keylime_5
08-11-2007, 02:03 PM
Where is Otto Graham? He is undisputedly one of the top 10, maybe even top 5 QBs of all time. He only played in 10 straight championship games. It's not like Graham didn't play in the 1950s, and that is where the "modern era" should start. They should've made the cutoff date farther back than the 60s.

yourfavestoner
08-11-2007, 02:05 PM
I love Johnny U as much as the next guy but #1?

1.Joe Montana
2.John Elway
3.Dan Marino

I left off any one playing right now but Manning and Brady are flying up the list each year.

In case you didn't know, Unitas is widely, widely regarded as the best quarterback to ever play.

yo123
08-11-2007, 02:15 PM
Actually most people Ive talked to think its Montana. BTW this guy is a complete joke

Ward
08-11-2007, 02:38 PM
Here are some QBs he has ranked over Aikman:

Joe "More INTs than TDs" Namath
Steve McNair
Craig Morton
Randall Cunningham
Mark Brunell

And a bunch of non-NFL oddballs.

wiscbadgerfootball
08-11-2007, 02:41 PM
wow this list is wack I may be somewhat of a Packers homer but Brett Favre deserses to be top 5 IMO.

Splat
08-11-2007, 02:45 PM
In case you didn't know, Unitas is widely, widely regarded as the best quarterback to ever play.

By who? I love Johnny U as much as the next guy top five sure #1 not so much.

TitleTown088
08-11-2007, 03:40 PM
Terrible list. Favre should be AT LEASED #1...

BigDawg819
08-11-2007, 03:40 PM
Johnny U is the only answer to the question of who's number 1? He revolutionized the position and the game as well. Without his success in those formative years the QB position wouldn't be where its at today. He gets the nod not only for his stats, which were incredible in his time, but also for changing the position and being one the greatest field generals ever.

nfrillman
08-11-2007, 03:44 PM
Wow, just wow. That is one of the worst lists I have seen in some time. Brunell in front of Esiason, Simms, Kelly, and others. Aaron Brooks being on the list. I don't want to sound like a homer, but wouldn't you all agree that Bulger should be ahead of Brooks on something like this, I mean wow. I know this guy was trying to equate different eras, but when he started using his formula and the rankings started coming out so crazy, he should have tried to fine tune the system.

Crazy_Chris
08-11-2007, 05:33 PM
good to see Tarkenton getting some of the respect he deserves.

neko4
08-11-2007, 05:41 PM
By who? I love Johnny U as much as the next guy top five sure #1 not so much.

The guy ended his career with a couple championships and had set like 20+records i think, he held the TD record for awhile, until Fran came along
And Anderson and Fouts are ten spots too high

dre1614
08-11-2007, 05:42 PM
Wow, just wow. That is one of the worst lists I have seen in some time. Brunell in front of Esiason, Simms, Kelly, and others. Aaron Brooks being on the list. I don't want to sound like a homer, but wouldn't you all agree that Bulger should be ahead of Brooks on something like this, I mean wow. I know this guy was trying to equate different eras, but when he started using his formula and the rankings started coming out so crazy, he should have tried to fine tune the system.

I may be wrong but i think this list has a lot to do with longetivity.

Bulger has only played 3 full seasons, and 2 half seasons. So he has not played enough.

another guy is Tom Brady, who has only played 6 full seasons, thats one reason why he is ranked low.

neko4
08-11-2007, 05:45 PM
Aaron Brooks at 97, Vick at 98!!!!!
I think Flutie shoul;dve been in the 70's
Brunell was about 10 spots too high

neko4
08-11-2007, 05:46 PM
I may be wrong but i think this list has a lot to do with longetivity.

Bulger has only played 3 full seasons, and 2 half seasons. So he has not played enough.

another guy is Tom Brady, who has only played 6 full seasons, thats one reason why he is ranked low.

You make a great point, for all we know Bulger could come out and throw 30 picks next year, and never get good again

dre1614
08-11-2007, 05:48 PM
Where is Otto Graham? He is undisputedly one of the top 10, maybe even top 5 QBs of all time. He only played in 10 straight championship games. It's not like Graham didn't play in the 1950s, and that is where the "modern era" should start. They should've made the cutoff date farther back than the 60s.

The article states, that 1950 is the cutoff date. he doesn't use the stats before that date. Otto only played 6 seasons after that, so thats why he isnt ranked. He also said he would be in the top 20 if all of his stats were included.

WMD
08-11-2007, 05:52 PM
Jon Kitna "just missed the cut"..

awfullyquiet
08-11-2007, 05:56 PM
anyone who tries to bring metrics into football should be shot.
football is a finesse sport where just because you rack up ridiculous stats per year doesn't make you good.

neko4
08-11-2007, 05:59 PM
Jon Kitna "just missed the cut"..

I think thats kinda stupid, he's played with bad teams and done well considering the situations (CIN&DET)

dre1614
08-11-2007, 06:12 PM
anyone who tries to bring metrics into football should be shot.
football is a finesse sport where just because you rack up ridiculous stats per year doesn't make you good.

If a player is putting up "ridiculous" stats, ill bet that he is a good player.

neko4
08-11-2007, 06:28 PM
If a player is putting up "ridiculous" stats, ill bet that he is a good player.

a good, but not best, or great

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-11-2007, 07:59 PM
No Cutler? Weak.

Anyway, a lot of you guys are getting worked up over not great QBs in the 90s or whatever when you feel they shouldnt be on the list. But, as is the case from when I was reading my big baseball book by Bill James, he had positional rankings that dated back to the 1870s. So a lot longer than the 57 years this list allows. And he even said, by the time you get to 80, you're hitting players who weren't that great. Sure, good enough to be an all-star once or twice, but even by 20, they weren't HOF material.

angelsdontkill
08-11-2007, 08:08 PM
That list lost me when Marino wasn't number 1.

neko4
08-11-2007, 08:25 PM
That list lost me when Marino wasn't number 1.

why because he set records? (Which are about to be broken) Stats arent everything (And now i know if he comes back this will turn into a greatest QB ever arguement)

BigDawg819
08-11-2007, 08:33 PM
Johnny U is the standard. He's the unquestioned #1!

neko4
08-11-2007, 08:52 PM
Johnny U is the standard. He's the unquestioned #1!

The thing i hate the most is that people look at his 290td passes and say, well thats not a lot, but no one realizes that Johnny U set the TD record before Marino. It seems like everyone figures that since they both played in the past that they played at the same time.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-11-2007, 09:16 PM
Dude: The NFL started in 1995. FACT.

angelsdontkill
08-12-2007, 02:56 AM
why because he set records? (Which are about to be broken) Stats arent everything (And now i know if he comes back this will turn into a greatest QB ever arguement)

Who said anything about records?
Brett Favre has records and he's one of the most overrated players of all time.

RaiderNation
08-12-2007, 03:00 AM
montana need to be 1st and marino and elway after..expect manning to be top 10 soon

bearsfan_51
08-12-2007, 03:01 AM
Who said anything about records?
Brett Favre has records and he's one of the most overrated players of all time.

+rep for you sir. Let's not forget the upcoming record for most INT's.

bearsfan_51
08-12-2007, 03:03 AM
montana need to be 1st and marino and elway after..expect manning to be top 10 soon

Manning will go down as the greatest of all time. Look at his numbers and where he is at compared to other QB's at this point in his career. Manning honestly doesn't get the appreciation that he deserves because he has come up lame in the playoffs quite a few times, but as a whole he will be the best, hell Elway had some real stinker playoff games too and he's easily top 5.

JT Jag
08-12-2007, 04:26 AM
This entire top-100 is a joke. Even just the top-20.

I can do better then that.

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Brett Favre
4. Dan Marino
5. John Elway
6. Sammy Baugh
7. Bart Starr
8. Sid Luckman
9. Fran Tarkenton
10. Otto Graham
11. Peyton Manning
12. Steve Young
13. Tom Brady
14. Sonny Jurgenson
15. Roger Staubauch
16. Dan Fouts
17. Len Dawson
18. Ken Anderson
19. Warren Moon
20. Roman Gabriel

KCJ58
08-12-2007, 04:39 AM
Aaron Brooks (#97) Mike Vick (#98)

thats a joke

elway777
08-12-2007, 12:06 PM
John Elway>>>>Brett Favre

And stats don't make a QB.

Unitas should be 1, with Montana behind him.

YAYareaRB
08-12-2007, 12:20 PM
This entire top-100 is a joke. Even just the top-20.

I can do better then that.

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Brett Favre
4. Dan Marino
5. John Elway
6. Sammy Baugh
7. Bart Starr
8. Sid Luckman
9. Fran Tarkenton
10. Otto Graham
11. Peyton Manning
12. Steve Young
13. Tom Brady
14. Sonny Jurgenson
15. Roger Staubauch
16. Dan Fouts
17. Len Dawson
18. Ken Anderson
19. Warren Moon
20. Roman Gabriel

Your list is a joke as well. Steve Young at #12? You've gotta be kidding me!..