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PittPete
08-13-2007, 10:27 AM
After saturday nights debacle, I think we have to really be concerned about our offensive line. first of all, I think that it is more important that the unit plays as a unit, and that is more important than just individual talent(see Oakland raiders). Because Tomlin is alternating players from game to game, we are not seeing cohesion at all. We have to make some decisions quick and get these guys playing together. Secondly, we do not have a bonafide tackle on the roster. Marvell Smith is a right tackle forced to the left side where he is mediocre at best and sometimes awful. Max Starks has slow feet and cant handle any speed rushers and the way he got bulldozed back into the qb by a guy 80 lbs lighter makes me sick. Colon can do the job but is a guard forced to play tackle. Faneca is the man, but as is the case, mgmt would rather dole out heaps of cash for Okobi/Mahan than invest in a true lineman. Simmons seems to be playing with a vengeance but is still not the power blocker we need. In fact, after those short yardage disasters saturday, where is our muscle? I just love seeing our lineman on their asses. The middle of our line has no push at all, especially with Faneca out.

MoMoney717
08-14-2007, 02:49 AM
I really think we made a mistake not taking Gaither with a 4th rounder.... that would have solved so much. Expect OLine erly and often in next years draft

Smooth Criminal
08-14-2007, 07:29 AM
fact is we are set to lose faneca, starks, and simmons after this season. Sorry but I'm not a huge believer in any of our backups other than Colon to take over. Kemoeatu is having a horrible camp according to most and we dont really have any other guard depth other than Essex and unproven rookies so I'd like to see some first day picks put into shoring up the Oline aswell.

PittPete
08-14-2007, 09:22 AM
Next years draft is not going to do anything for either the 2007 or 2008 steelers. Last years free agency spending spree on lineman makes it seem unlikely that next year can be addressed that way either. faneca is probably going to get more money than Merv Griffin(rip). We should have signed him longterm with the money we spent on Okobi/Mahan, both of whom are mediocre at best. I agree that Colon is our only viable upcoming lineman.

Mr. Stiller
08-15-2007, 10:13 AM
I really think we made a mistake not taking Gaither with a 4th rounder.... that would have solved so much. Expect OLine erly and often in next years draft

Uh, no. We have a better version of Gaither in Capizzi. Capizzi is a much harder worker, didn't flunk out of school.

Capizzi has every much as chance to play LT in this league as Gaither.

What we need next year is a LG and RT.

LG for Faneca, RT for Starks, let Colon play RG and we're set.

Heath Benedict Round 2 (6'6 330lb LG that runs in the 4.9's), and a guy like Jeff Otah in round 3.. he's 6'5 340lb 5.19 40' type guy that can play OG and RT.

We have too many young guys on the OL to need to go to an all OL draft.

1) DE/OLB
2) Heath Benedict, LG/LT, Newberry
3) Jeff Otah, OG/RT, Pittsburgh
4) CB/WR
5) NT
6) DE/OLB depth
7) K

Mr. Stiller
08-15-2007, 10:16 AM
Next years draft is not going to do anything for either the 2007 or 2008 steelers. Last years free agency spending spree on lineman makes it seem unlikely that next year can be addressed that way either. faneca is probably going to get more money than Merv Griffin(rip). We should have signed him longterm with the money we spent on Okobi/Mahan, both of whom are mediocre at best. I agree that Colon is our only viable upcoming lineman.

this is the common misconception.

People believe we don't have the money for Faneca. This is not true. Next year we'll be nearly 20-30M under the cap, not counting the cap increase.

We could fit him in easily, However... Is he worth Steinbach/Dockery money considering he's over 30? They offered him a 3rd contract, but it's a tad below What Steinbach and Dockery make. Which is more Faneca's fault than ours.

We offered him a pretty decent value contract considering it's his 3rd and he's past 30.. but he chose to be pissy and not take it.

MoMoney717
08-16-2007, 03:25 AM
good point I totally forgot about Capizzi... Dude has the body and foot speed. Im still not 100% sold on what we have at OLine though and definetly expect us to draft some early

Smooth Criminal
08-16-2007, 08:53 AM
apizzi is also going to benefit from having2 years to play behind Marvel so he doesnt even have tomake the team this year. He can have a practice squad year and make the team next season to backup Smith.

PittPete
08-16-2007, 10:03 AM
From what I've been reading, Gaither is lightsout in Baltimore. filling in at left tackle, he has superstud written all over him. Its questionable if Capizzi even makes the team. How can you compare them, at least at this point? Mcnair is comparing Gaithers to Ogden. Dissing Faneca because he wants market value is cheap, since he might be the best lineman in Steeler history. Linemen without injury problems remain productive late in their careers. Faneca is tough, smart and dedicated and I would rather have him than the whole pile of wannabes that draftnics drool over.

Mr. Stiller
08-16-2007, 12:05 PM
From what I've been reading, Gaither is lightsout in Baltimore. filling in at left tackle, he has superstud written all over him. Its questionable if Capizzi even makes the team. How can you compare them, at least at this point? Mcnair is comparing Gaithers to Ogden. Dissing Faneca because he wants market value is cheap, since he might be the best lineman in Steeler history. Linemen without injury problems remain productive late in their careers. Faneca is tough, smart and dedicated and I would rather have him than the whole pile of wannabes that draftnics drool over.

I love Faneca, but no way I put him over Dirt or Webby.

Capizzi is more of a project because he wasn't at a D1 school.. He plays for pitt all 4 years and he's ranked as high or higher than Gaither in my opinion.

He has 2 years to red-shirt behind Marvel. Depending on his progress they'll draft for next year.

Benedict is a Gaither like Monster for LG. Replacing Faneca with someone faster, stronger and has about 20-30 lbs on him.

I like a guy like Jeff Otah for RT/RG swingman, or Barry Richardson if he falls for a mauler RT that excels at Pass pro. Or perhaps Barton who's a jack of all blocks but master or mauler of none.

I don't think the OL is in as much peril as everyone believes.

a solid 2 guys next year and we should be set for the future..


Capizzi ~ Benedict ~ Mahan ~ Colon ~ Otah/Richardson


My main concern is locking up Vernon Gholston. If he stays for his senior year.. I don't know who I take round 1.

Hines
08-19-2007, 07:31 PM
I love Faneca, but no way I put him over Dirt or Webby.

Capizzi is more of a project because he wasn't at a D1 school.. He plays for pitt all 4 years and he's ranked as high or higher than Gaither in my opinion.

He has 2 years to red-shirt behind Marvel. Depending on his progress they'll draft for next year.

Benedict is a Gaither like Monster for LG. Replacing Faneca with someone faster, stronger and has about 20-30 lbs on him.

I like a guy like Jeff Otah for RT/RG swingman, or Barry Richardson if he falls for a mauler RT that excels at Pass pro. Or perhaps Barton who's a jack of all blocks but master or mauler of none.

I don't think the OL is in as much peril as everyone believes.

a solid 2 guys next year and we should be set for the future..


Capizzi ~ Benedict ~ Mahan ~ Colon ~ Otah/Richardson


My main concern is locking up Vernon Gholston. If he stays for his senior year.. I don't know who I take round 1.


tommy blake or quentin groves

Mr. Stiller
08-19-2007, 09:26 PM
tommy blake or quentin groves

Gholston > Blake or Groves.

Man_Of_Steel
08-19-2007, 10:02 PM
Okay since I havent posted in this thread yet Im gonna take abit from every post because I dont feel like qouting the entire page.

Okay...

I believe someone said Starks cant handle a speed DE. WRONG, remember last year when Starks completley shut down one of the best players in the league Julius Peppers. Starks really dosent have a weakness you can write down on paper. He is incosistant thats it, of course hes gonna look slow when he gets beat but the reason for his struggles is inconstistancy due to him not lowering his anchor and staying too high.

Alot of hate on Simmons here. Kendall Simmons (aside from Faneca) has argueably been our best O-lineman this preseason. Hes doing an adequite job blocking in the line but where he has been most impressive is kicking/pulling out and blocking. He has been very quick and on target in that aspect.

Finally who was it that dissed Mike Webster by calling Faneca the best O-lineman in Steelers history. Faneca has been elite for a while but how can you overlook Webster.

PittPete
08-20-2007, 09:30 AM
After the skins game, I'm more worried than ever. Starks and Essex don't look like they should be in the NFL, and I still don't get the Mahan signing. Colon and Faneca seem to be our only true dominant lineman. Simmons has looked much better than last year but Kemo clearly needs more seasoning before given a starting role. On the other hand , Ive watched several other games and fat slow lineman are everywhere. It's very clear that defensive lineman have become more dominant than ever, they are faster and more athletic than at any time. Big fat slow boys just don't cut it as lineman anymore.

keylime_5
08-20-2007, 04:37 PM
My main concern is locking up Vernon Gholston. If he stays for his senior year.. I don't know who I take round 1.

Trust me, Gholston is not staying for his senior year. But are you guys gonna run a cover 2 or 3-4 in the future? Not that it matters since Gholston can be a great OLB in a 3-4 or a great DE in a 4-3 (can play LDE just as well as RDE).

Who is gonna start week 1 at RT for you guys against us, Starks or Colon?

Man_Of_Steel
08-20-2007, 04:40 PM
Trust me, Gholston is not staying for his senior year. But are you guys gonna run a cover 2 or 3-4 in the future? Not that it matters since Gholston can be a great OLB in a 3-4 or a great DE in a 4-3 (can play LDE just as well as RDE).

Who is gonna start week 1 at RT for you guys against us, Starks or Colon?

Look for Starks to start.

PittPete
08-21-2007, 09:31 AM
Starks is on the bench which is more than he deserves. Watched the bears/colts game last night and was not impressed with either O-line. D-linemen were shooting through like Casey hampton at a free donut giveaway.

Man_Of_Steel
08-21-2007, 10:09 AM
Starks is on the bench which is more than he deserves. Watched the bears/colts game last night and was not impressed with either O-line. D-linemen were shooting through like Casey hampton at a free donut giveaway.

Okay, since you disagree how about saying who you think will start RT.

mikehop05
08-21-2007, 02:15 PM
Okay, since you disagree how about saying who you think will start RT.

colon i think will get the nod

Man_Of_Steel
08-21-2007, 02:29 PM
I disagree, this being Starks contract year he is gonna start day 1 and get a chance to prove himself.

mikehop05
08-21-2007, 02:40 PM
I disagree, this being Starks contract year he is gonna start day 1 and get a chance to prove himself.

i see what your saying, and also the fact that we (reportedly) had a couple a chances to move starks this offseason and didn't also shows that the steelers really want to give him every chance to make him our starter...

having said that i think its more important to the steelers front office and to head coach mike tomlin to play the best player to give this organization the best possible chance to win, in the end i think they'd rather pay starks his... 1.8 mil? to be a backup and win then let him play and lose

Man_Of_Steel
08-21-2007, 02:54 PM
i see what your saying, and also the fact that we (reportedly) had a couple a chances to move starks this offseason and didn't also shows that the steelers really want to give him every chance to make him our starter...

having said that i think its more important to the steelers front office and to head coach mike tomlin to play the best player to give this organization the best possible chance to win, in the end i think they'd rather pay starks his... 1.8 mil? to be a backup and win then let him play and lose

Is Colon really that much better than Starks right now? I think right now they are gonna be about equal so I would love to see Starks get his chance again and flourish.

Smooth Criminal
08-21-2007, 03:23 PM
Starks is very inconsistent. At times he looks like a stud player but then other times he looks like the worst tackle in the league. Putting him at LT didn't turn into anything at all.

From the reports at camp, yes Colon is really looking that match better right now. Starks has looked bad in the preseason and Colon has reportedly looked very good in camp. It'll be interesting to see who starts against the Eagles this sunday because the line that starts will likely be the line that starts opening day.

Mr. Stiller
08-21-2007, 04:41 PM
Starks is very inconsistent. At times he looks like a stud player but then other times he looks like the worst tackle in the league. Putting him at LT didn't turn into anything at all.

From the reports at camp, yes Colon is really looking that match better right now. Starks has looked bad in the preseason and Colon has reportedly looked very good in camp. It'll be interesting to see who starts against the Eagles this sunday because the line that starts will likely be the line that starts opening day.

Word has it that:

Smith ~ Faneca ~ Mahan ~ Simmons ~ Colon is our starting 5.

Mr. Stiller
08-21-2007, 04:42 PM
I disagree, this being Starks contract year he is gonna start day 1 and get a chance to prove himself.

I don't think they're really happy where He is at. I know he CAN stop the best LDE's in the league, the fact remains he's so damn inconsistant.

He stonewalls Charles Grant and Julius Peppers.. then Gives Derrick Burgess and the Ravens free Roam of ben.

PittPete
08-23-2007, 09:37 AM
Colon should have the right tackle spot locked down. I have yet to see him get beat by anyone; being invisible is good for an offensive lineman because it means you are doing your job. My favorite videoclip I've seen this year(on Savrons sportsbeat) was Colon and Woodley going at it. they looked like two bears rassling. Woodley couldn't get by Colon at all though. Although I think Willie's long term future is at guard, this year he looks like our best tackle, period. Starks best athletic move is helping the qb up after he lets him get sacked.

Man_Of_Steel
08-23-2007, 10:48 AM
Looks like I'm the lone Starks supporter.

Mr. Stiller
08-23-2007, 10:58 AM
Looks like I'm the lone Starks supporter.

I'd support Starks if he was ever consistant. He doesn't have to be perfect.. but like I said..

I hate seeing him crush Peppers and Grant then be horrendous against Burgess and Adalius.

That said.. I would liek to see if Colon next to Starks improves his play as Colon handles DT's better than Simmons.

Man_Of_Steel
08-23-2007, 11:24 AM
Starting I want Smith/Faneca/Mahan/Simmons/Starks

PittPete
08-24-2007, 09:07 AM
Guess you like softies. Mahan, Simmons and starks would all get pushed into the backfield on a regular basis. I would replace them with Blaylock(whom we didn't draft), Gaithers(whom we didn't draft) and Colon. That would be a line with some real muscle. Btw, saw where Starks is now playing with the first team. Yikes, its gonna be a long year.

Man_Of_Steel
08-24-2007, 02:51 PM
Guess you like softies. Mahan, Simmons and starks would all get pushed into the backfield on a regular basis. I would replace them with Blaylock(whom we didn't draft), Gaithers(whom we didn't draft) and Colon. That would be a line with some real muscle. Btw, saw where Starks is now playing with the first team. Yikes, its gonna be a long year.

Obviously I was talking about who we have on the roster, not players we dont.

Smooth Criminal
08-24-2007, 02:56 PM
I really think Colon is alot better suited to play guard. If we do sign Simmons back I would like to see Colon take over for Faneca at LG. Last year Simmons got pushed around by alot of DTs but reports say he is alot stronger this year so hopefully he will do better agianst the big guys. If he can do that I say give him an extension.

But he is still better than Starks so I think he should start at RT this year before being moved inside next year. With that move and resigning Simmons it would leave only RT up for grabs next year.

Mr. Stiller
08-25-2007, 10:31 AM
Starting I want Smith/Faneca/Mahan/Simmons/Starks

honestly I'd rather have this:

Smith ~ Faneca ~ Colon ~ Kemo ~ Starks

Mr. Stiller
08-25-2007, 10:40 AM
I really think Colon is alot better suited to play guard. If we do sign Simmons back I would like to see Colon take over for Faneca at LG. Last year Simmons got pushed around by alot of DTs but reports say he is alot stronger this year so hopefully he will do better agianst the big guys. If he can do that I say give him an extension.

But he is still better than Starks so I think he should start at RT this year before being moved inside next year. With that move and resigning Simmons it would leave only RT up for grabs next year.

Agreed. I think We should Resign Kemo, Simmons.

I think:

Smith ~ Simmons ~ Colon ~ Kemo ~ ?

Would be our best lineup. If We draft Chris Williams and Heath Benedict.. Either could play RT.

Smooth Criminal
08-25-2007, 05:41 PM
I'm still holding out on Mahan. The team signed him for a reason and they are usually good with O-line. Plus Unless Kemo continues to progress and I don't think he will be good. He isn't a technically sound guard and he only gets by with his brute force. If he worked on the fundementals he could be a very good guard but for now I'd rather have Mahan in the lineup than Kemoeatu.

Plus I think Simmons would stay on the right side and let Kemo go on the left. He has been playing backup LG so maybe he is who they have planned to take over for Faneca.

Smith-Kemo-Mahan-Simmons-Colon looks like our most likely line next year. I'd like to see us add a tackle so we could move Colon to LG but I think they would rather put Kemo into the lineup than a rookie RT. So unless they sign a FA I expect that to be our line at the start of next season.

Mr. Stiller
08-25-2007, 06:00 PM
I think our issue for the next few years is going to Be OL.

here's why. We have a conflict of coaching.

Zierlein is a fan of the ZBS requiring smaller athletic OL and scheme to stop pass rushers and run stoppers.

Arians is a fan of the Spread offense, which IMO, requires Big Maulers to open huge gaps at the OL and let the RB shake the LB/DB's.

Now when I think of spread offenses I think of Philly (Huge OL), SD (Huge OL), and Atlanta now (going to a huge OL).

Notice how atlanta had a ZBS OL and they had issues for sacks and the likes?

I think we need to draft a LT Prospect (Chris Williams or Jeff Otah). Have them Challenge Capizzi in a year.

That solves LT and RT and gives us 2 Maulers.

Then I'd like to draft Heath Benedict for LG (6'6 330lbs runs a sub 5.0). Athletic and a mauler who can open lanes and push around DT's.

Round 6 or 7 I'd like to Add Brandyn Dombrowski of SDSU. He's big at 6'5 335 and runs a 5.04 40' He's athletic for his size and is a absolute monster run blocker. I know it's only SDSU but I have never seen him get moved. He also bolsters a 4.0 GPA. One of the smartest people I met.

Lastly slide Colon to Center.

That'll give us...

Capizzi ~ Benedict ~ Colon ~ Dombrowski ~ Otah
6'9 330 ~ 6'6 330 ~ 6'3 330 ~ 6'5 335lbs ~ 6'5 340

Otah is the slowest, but he has LT feet. That would give us 1665lbs of maulers clearing the Way for Willie Parker. Dombrowski and Benedict are still both fast enough to get to the second level and clear everyone out.

I just don't see a ZBS working for a spread style offense.

PittPete
08-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Ok after last nights game, here's how I grade our O-line. The first quarter was a near disaster. faneca must have been out drinking all night because he played the first quarter with his head up his butt. He missed more blocks than the rest of his career together. Smith and Colon were solid. the interior of our line was getting mauled. Mahan and simmons were'nt getting any push. The telling play was the Parker fumble. 2nd and goal from inside the one; the iggles tackles pushed simmons and mahan back, faneca pulled to lead Parker but missed his block and did a bellyflop in the endzone. Spikes then drove his helmet into the ball and forced the fumble. Second quarter, Okobi, Kemo and Starks looked dominant. On Willie's td run, Okobi and Kemo muscled their lineman out of the way and, gasp, a pulling Max Starks obliterated Gaithers for a wideopen jaunt to the endzone. After watching this game, I want Okkobi at center, and I want to work Kemo in slowly until he can figure how to use his strength consistently. Starks had his best game of the preseason, I'd didn't curse him once.

richdg
08-27-2007, 10:28 AM
The Ol is a mess, and management is to blame. The best on the team, if not the NFL is getting the shaft. Yet, the seem to want to keep trying the same guys that have failed in the past, hoping for a different result. They could have addressed this in the draft, but took a player that is completely lost and can't stand up to 2nd and 3rd string blockers! Every play so far this preseason I wish we had Staley and not Timmons. When Ben gets hurt this season,a nd with this line, I am sure he will, just remember we could have helped this out. Mahan, Simmons, and Starks are all flops. Although the the line did play better with Starks and Chris K in than with Simmons and Colon. I still think the best line we could have had this year would be : Smith-Colon-Faneca-Chris K-Starks. With Staley pushing the 2 starting T's.