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bearsfan_51
08-13-2007, 09:14 PM
Hello boys and girls....what? No girls? Oh...well....

I thought I would delve into a favorite pastime of mine and speculate on what coaches are at the most risk of getting fired this season. Of course it's almost impossible that 10 coaches will get fired (particularly after the high #'s last year), but I think ten is a good number to speculate on, plus I'm a big fan of the Romans and their fancy numerical system.


1) Tom Coughlin

This one is a given. I'm still surprised that he wasn't fired last year, but I think with the Jerry Reese as the new GM he didn't want to totally shake up the roster. Coughlin is going to likely be the scapegoat on what is the start of a rebuilding project in New York. They have a decent group of young players, but their non-chalant attitude towards losing their LT and the possible retirement of Strahan indicate that this is a team looking to rebuild and still be competitive at the same time. That's a very hard thing to do, particularly when your own players don't buy into what you're saying.

2) Romeo Crennel

Romeo oh Romeo...where for art thou Romeo? If he's not careful he'll be shitcanned by December. One almost has to feel bad for the guy because he inherited a team with no QB and with the stigma of losing and constant injuries. On top of that there is a fanbase that is dreadfully sick of losing and particularly of getting creamed by the Ravens and Steelers. This of course present the dilemma of whether to start a guy that MIGHT give you a better chance to win and keep your job in Frye, or hope that by tying yourself to Quinn immediately you position yourself as part of the future built around him. If I'm Romeo I do the latter. Sadly, I think the fact that Crennel looks like a giant penguin on the sideline doesn't help his cause either. This is an image conscious league and Romeo's quiet personality and pear-shaped physique don't exude confidence for a franchise that desperately needs it. Shallow? Sure. Incorrect? Ask Charlie Weis' plastic surgeon.

3) Jon Gruden

It's been a long time since Chucky won the Superbowl. He used to have Mike Shannahan-like job security a few years ago but I think that's worn completely thin. He seems to have stemmed away from constantly bringing in overpriced veterans to stay competitive and hold off rebuilding, but the signing of Jeff Garcia and trade for Jake Plummer still indicate that he is desperate to win now. Is Tampa better off rebuilding with a coach that seemingly refuses to rebuild? I think we'll find out this year.

4) Jack Del Rio

There has been too much scrutiny of lots of people in Jacksonville the last few years and it starts right at the top. I personally think that the talent level in Jacksonville is overstated and that considering Del Rio hasn't the most inexpensive staff in the league he's done a pretty fine job. That being said he's going into his 5th year in Jacksonville and has only made the playoffs once, just to get his ass handed to him. It's a hard hard world in the AFC, especially in Peyton Manning's shadow, but Del Rio needs to make some noise in the playoffs or he's likely done. Flirting with the LSU job a few years back likely didn't help his stock either.

5) Mike Nolan

Here's where it gets interesting. Currently nobody is talking about Nolan being on the hot seat, and that the Niners are a team primed for a huge upswing, but here's the kicker. What if it doesn't happen? What if Alex Smith doesn't develop? What if the money spent in the offseason doesn't result in a playoff berth? Mike Nolan's future is directly tied to Alex Smith. If Smith succeeds, Nolan is a hero. If not....he's a guy with an 11-21 record in San Fran. Some may criticize this pick, but the days of San Fran being a low-pressure job are over. Just like Crennel, he needs to produce or he could be gonzo. This is the same owner that fired Dennis Erickson after two season and Mariucci after he won the division and a playoff game.

6) Joe Gibbs

Would Snyder actually have the cajones to fire Gibbs? I'm not sure. Should he if they don't succeed this year? Absolutely. I think it's highly questionable how much Gibbs actually 'coaches' anyway and with the obvious friction between Al Saunders and Gibbs about how the team should be run, another huge stinker like they had last year and I think Gibbs will voluntarily walk away. Gibbs is unquestionably one of the greatest coaches of all time and I don't think he's the type of coach to continually soil his legacy out of sheer stubbornness.

7) John Fox

In all fairness Fox should probably be 5th if the reports are true, however I refuse to buy into them. Fox is a great coach, and the success that he's had in the playoffs is undeniable. While he might not have the extreme upside of a guy like Gruden, he also doesn't have the extreme downside of a guy like Gruden. Ownership may be tired of the inconsistant play and the lack of a Superbowl in 5 seasons, but the team he has put together is still the envy of a lot of other toilet-dwellers in the NFC. I think it would be a mistake to fire him unless the Panthers absolutely tank, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

8) Mike Holmgren

This is a situation similar to Gibbs, although Holmgren will be going into season nine with the Seahawks. He's flirted with retiring before, and I think that is the more likely scenario, but he does have a 3-5 playoff record with the Seahawks, and they don't appear to be a team on the upswing. I think an NFL coaches shelf-life with one team usually lasts about 10 years max. It might be best for both sides to move on if they don't at least make the Superbowl this year.

9) Brad Childress / Rod Marinelli

Last season was undoubtedly rough for the Vikings. After starting 4-2 they only won 2 of their next 10 games down the stretch. Similarly, the Lions continued their 50 year long voyage of sucktatude by winning 3 games. The good news for the Lions is that things look up this year and 8-9 wins is not out of the question. The bad news is that they are the Lions. I put these two together because it's not common for coaches to be given only 2 years to succeed and both owners/GM's have tied themselves rather closely with said guys. That being said, Childress has a personality that makes Bellicheck look like Bob Ross, and while that's acceptable when winning, a 2-3 win season could spell an early exit for a coach that is putting all of his faith in Tavaris Jackson. Likewise, although Millen will likely stick with Marinelli till the very end, how long could that possibly be for Millen? God would only hope for Lions fans that if they don't win this year he'll get canned. Is the new guy going to want a drill sergeant from the Millen regime as his new coach?

10 Lane Kiffen

Until Al Davis dies this is always a safe bet.

yodabear
08-13-2007, 09:25 PM
Your list is good BF_51. I would also consider Wade Philipps in Dallas. I mean, Jerry Jones is the George Steinbrinner of the NFL. And they seem hell bent about Jason Garrett being the next coach. And u never know, a disappointing season, and u could see Phillips gone. Another one is Brian Billick. He seems to be on the hot seat every year. Yeah, I know he prolly got off of it after winning the AFC North last year, but what if they take a step backwards. Lastly, Marvin Lewis. He has had the cloud over him with the off the field issues. And also I think another 8-8 season, I don't know if management can deal with struggles on and off the field.

bearsfan_51
08-13-2007, 09:30 PM
Your list is good BF_51. I would also consider Wade Philipps in Dallas. I mean, Jerry Jones is the George Steinbrinner of the NFL. And they seem hell bent about Jason Garrett being the next coach. And u never know, a disappointing season, and u could see Phillips gone. Another one is Brian Billick. He seems to be on the hot seat every year. Yeah, I know he prolly got off of it after winning the AFC North last year, but what if they take a step backwards. Lastly, Marvin Lewis. He has had the cloud over him with the off the field issues. And also I think another 8-8 season, I don't know if management can deal with struggles on and off the field.

Damn I totally forgot about Marvin Lewis. He was supposed to be 7th but it slipped my mind.

Wade is a possibility but if the Cowboys struggle I don't see the logic in promoting from within. Then again they did hire Dave Campo.

I love Brian Billick. He can do no wrong in my book. Same with Jeff Fisher.

WMD
08-13-2007, 09:35 PM
I definitely think this is Romeo Crennel's last season in Cleveland. Jack Del Rio I can see being fired as well, the Quarterback situation in Jacksonville is a mess.

yodabear
08-13-2007, 09:36 PM
Damn I totally forgot about Marvin Lewis. He was supposed to be 7th but it slipped my mind.

Wade is a possibility but if the Cowboys struggle I don't see the logic in promoting from within. Then again they did hire Dave Campo.

I love Brian Billick. He can do no wrong in my book. Same with Jeff Fisher.

I agree with u on Philipps, Billick, and Fisher. All of them are great coaches IMO. Unfourtunantly, Phillips works for Jerry Jones, and u can never expect the expected with him. I loved watching the 98 Vikes, they were so much fun to watch, and Billick was the mastermind, so I have been a big fan since. And I've liked FIsher since the 2000 super bowl. No one expected the Titans, but they came so close to beating the Rams.

TimD
08-13-2007, 09:38 PM
great list except for nolan... i just don't see him getting fired without having one year with a decent team (this year) to prove himself

WMD
08-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Let's also throw out Dick Jauron in Buffalo.

diabsoule
08-13-2007, 10:02 PM
I don't agree with Nolan but that's about the only person on your list that I disagree with.

jkpigskin
08-13-2007, 10:04 PM
good list but the nolan one is interesting... 49ers might be overhyped and if they dont produce i dont see how you can blame nolan... if they dont do well, it was def the media and fans overhyping their moves...

neko4
08-13-2007, 10:23 PM
How good will Crennell have to do?
Considering he came into a terrible situation I think he has a good 2 more years before he gets fired unless things turn around.

princefielder28
08-13-2007, 10:28 PM
How good will Crennell have to do?
Considering he came into a terrible situation I think he has a good 2 more years before he gets fired unless things turn around.

maybe management will flip a coin

PalmerToCJ
08-13-2007, 10:30 PM
Marvin Lewis isn't on the hot seat. The community loves him, a very very large majority of the fans support him (even those who criticize don't want him gone yet) and even if he was doing a terrible job Mike Brown wouldn't fire him, he's stuck with worse coaches for longer.

He has a winning record after 4 seasons with a team that won 2 games after he took them over, he overachieved 2 years... reached expectations one year and underachieved last year. The off field issues are in large part to Mike Brown, he has been quoted as saying he pulled the trigger on Henry and was willing to give players a chance (it worked with Carl Pickens and Corey Dillon in the past). He acknowledged that Marvin didn't want to take on those players but he felt he could handle them which isn't the case.

Now, if Marvin goes 8-8 this year then no doubt he'll be on the hot seat in '08.

Borat
08-13-2007, 10:54 PM
I'm not going to blast you for putting Nolan on there. It's incorrect, but I won't hate on you. Just an FYI, the owner absolutely LOVES Nolan. He's not on the hotseat.

bearsfan_51
08-13-2007, 11:34 PM
I'm not going to blast you for putting Nolan on there. It's incorrect, but I won't hate on you. Just an FYI, the owner absolutely LOVES Nolan. He's not on the hotseat.
If the Niners only win 5-6 games and Alex Smith doesn't progress he'll be on the hot seat. I stand by what I say.

Larry
08-13-2007, 11:58 PM
I can assure you Mike Nolan is no where near the hot seat even if the 49ers don't meet playoff expectations in 07.

YAYareaRB
08-14-2007, 12:16 AM
I'm pretty sure San Francisco's front office and fans alike, are all high Nolan. He's brought us a long way from the Erickson Era. No ways he's in the hot seat.. HE'S SOOOO CLOSE!

Cashmoney
08-14-2007, 12:38 AM
Nolan can't get fired he wears a suit. that makes him coach numero uno in my books.

Vikes99ej
08-14-2007, 12:44 AM
Good, Childress is on there.

JK17
08-14-2007, 12:46 AM
The only reason I would say Norv Turner is not on that list already, is because of how big AJ Smith was on continuity when he brought him in, and how hard it would be to find a good replacement.

But you can sure as hell bet if he doesn't win, and win big, he's on the hot seat right away.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 12:47 AM
Excellent list and yes I agree the only glaring exception is Marvin Lewis. He hasn't lead the Bengals to the Super Bowl or for that matter anywhere close and how fitting is it that a Brian Billick protege who's resume is based on defense can't build a solid one? Marvin Lewis, while a great person, has been the man in charge during all these off the field incidents and apparently his high character is not being adopted by the players or management when it comes to drafting players. Its a real possibility that if the Bengals once again miss the playoffs that he could be gone.

PalmerToCJ
08-14-2007, 12:51 AM
Excellent list and yes I agree the only glaring exception is Marvin Lewis. He hasn't lead the Bengals to the Super Bowl or for that matter anywhere close and how fitting is it that a Brian Billick protege who's resume is based on defense can't build a solid one? Marvin Lewis, while a great person, has been the man in charge during all these off the field incidents and apparently his high character is not being adopted by the players or management when it comes to drafting players. Its a real possibility that if the Bengals once again miss the playoffs that he could be gone.

Read my reply above.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 12:55 AM
Read my reply above.

I read your reply and yet I stick my post. Marvin Lewis needs a good/great year from this team or he's gone in my opinion. You can love the man all you want but the bottomline is he hasn't produced in the playoffs and thats what matters most.

PalmerToCJ
08-14-2007, 01:02 AM
I read your reply and yet I stick my post. Marvin Lewis needs a good/great year from this team or he's gone in my opinion. You can love the man all you want but the bottomline is he hasn't produced in the playoffs and thats what matters most.

It's not just me that supports him, it's an extremely large amount of our fan base and most importantly our owner/media. There is zero pressure on Mike Brown to even consider doing this and Marvin has only had one bad season thus far. To even have expected him to do anything in the playoffs his first 2 seasons would've been absurd and his third season a freak incident (star player getting hurt very first play) screwed us anyway. To fire him on the basis of one rough season then assuming this year isn't bad for the sake of the argument is a bit much.

He's been here 4 seasons with a winning record.

Bruce Coslett was 21-39 over 4 seasons before he got canned and Mike Shula was 19-52 before he did, all under Mike Brown. He doesn't have a quick trigger and he's the one making the call, even if I didn't want Marvin I'd still concede that he'll be here AT LEAST another 2 years even under the worst circumstances.

I'm not the sort to support my coach regardless of his performance, I love UK basketball and wanted Tubby Smith gone after this year but Marvin would have to really underachieve this year to even be on the hot seat next year.

Shiver
08-14-2007, 02:09 AM
I definitely would have put Norv Turner there, but that's just me. He needs to win in the playoffs or he's one and done.

Addict
08-14-2007, 02:17 AM
I think Millen is closer to getting fired than Marinelli.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2007, 09:48 AM
Yup, Coughlin is definately #1. Its gonna take a miracle for him to save his job. And making the playoffs isn't good enough. Reese made it very clear that if this team doesn't do damage in the playoffs, he'll be disappointed (ie he's gonna fire Coughlin unless he goes to the NFC championship game bc he doesn't like him and only kept him bc it was the only way the Giants would hire him as a GM).


And yeah....I don't see that happening. Taking this Giants team that far would require alot of smoke and mirrors trickeration from the coaching job, ala 2006/2007 Jets, but this staff is far too unoriginal to adjust. Coughlin won't adjust his belt buckle let alone his playbook or playcalling. And the talent on the roster isn't good enough to overcome that as well. This team has average talent (from what we see so far) with below average coaching. Of course, Im doing a complete 180 from last year and being a major pessimist this year, but hey, I still make valid points.

Geo
08-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Figuratively dead in the water:
Tom Coughlin, New York Giants

Head coaches on the legit hot seat:
Jon Gruden, Tampa Bay Buccaneers- needs to get to .500 at the very least
Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville Jaguars- Del Rio has to get to the playoffs to keep his job, the Jags are probably the most talented team in the league
Brian Billick, Baltimore Ravens- the overrated blowhard doesn't have any more excuses now that the team brought/signed Willis McGahee, if the offense doesn't considerably improve for the better (and actually be able to win a playoff game like the defense definitely can) then he needs to get canned
Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns- needs to get to .500, Quinn might help buy him another year though

Head coaches a (bad) year away from the 2008 hot seat:
Brad Childress, Minnesota Vikings
Gary Kubiak, Houston Texans

Who should be on the hot seat, but won't ...
John Fox, Carolina Panthers- he's got years and dollars on his current contract that the frugal Panthers owner won't eat, although I think he should be fired for wasting all that talent; Fox should stick to being a defensive coordinator, he's much better in that role
Mike McCarthy, Green Bay Packers- the Packers will be one of the worst teams in 2007 and contend for the first overall pick in the 2008 Draft

Head coaches nearing retirement:
Joe Gibbs, Washington Redskins- likely replaced by Bill Cowher
Tony Dungy, Indianapolis Colts?
Bill Belichick, New England Patriots?

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Figuratively dead in the water:
Tom Coughlin, New York Giants

Head coaches on the legit hot seat:
Jon Gruden, Tampa Bay Buccaneers- needs to get to .500 at the very least
Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville Jaguars- Del Rio has to get to the playoffs to keep his job, the Jags are probably the most talented team in the league
Brian Billick, Baltimore Ravens- the overrated blowhard doesn't have any more excuses now that the team brought/signed Willis McGahee, if the offense doesn't considerably improve for the better (and actually be able to win a playoff game like the defense definitely can) then he needs to get canned
Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns- needs to get to .500, Quinn might help buy him another year though

Head coaches a (bad) year away from the 2008 hot seat:
Brad Childress, Minnesota Vikings
Gary Kubiak, Houston Texans

Who should be on the hot set, but won't ...
John Fox, Carolina Panthers- he's got years and dollars on his current contract that the frugal Panthers owner won't eat, although I think he should be fired for wasting all that talent; Fox should stick to being a defensive coordinator, he's much better in that role
Mike McCarthy, Green Bay Packers- the Packers will be one of the worst teams in 2007 and contend for the first overall pick in the 2008 Draft

Head coaches nearing retirement:
Joe Gibbs, Washington Redskins- likely replaced by Bill Cowher
Tony Dungy, Indianapolis Colts?
Bill Belichick, New England Patriots?

Thats a ridiculous assumption, Coach Billick is not going anywhere and the rumors need to stop. He signed a 4 year contract extension back in January of this year:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Common/Article.aspx?id=2440

Boston
08-14-2007, 12:14 PM
It's been 9 years since Holmgren left the Packers already? Wow.

Geo
08-14-2007, 12:26 PM
Thats a ridiculous assumption, Coach Billick is not going anywhere and the rumors need to stop. He signed a 4 year contract extension back in January of this year:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Common/Article.aspx?id=2440
Personally, I hope Billick remains as the head coach of the Ravens for years to come.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 12:32 PM
Personally, I hope Billick remains as the head coach of the Ravens for years to come.

He's the greatest coach in the history of the franchise, yes I know short history and he's only the 2nd head coach, has a winning record, won a Super Bowl in his 2nd season, and his adored by the fans and the owner, Coach will continue to be the coach of this team for as long as he wants. He has the swagger and attitude that are perfect for this city and fanbase and now apparent has the pieces in place to break out more of his offense. There is no hope of Coach staying, its a fact.

JoeMontainya
08-14-2007, 12:48 PM
Crennell will be gone in Cleveland. I hate when people act like Phil Savage, the GM is on the hot seat aswell. Phil is doing wonders for our team specifically in FA and the draft. Just look at our 1st round picks without him compared to with him. Better yet he allways finds a stud in RD2 etc...

Bill Cowher will be our head coach next year mark it down. Hes got the 3-4 deffense he likes in place with some solid young talent and he opened his career up in Cleveland and loved it. It might cost around 7-10 mill a year to get him in which case you almost have to make him your GM with total control.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 12:54 PM
Crennell will be gone in Cleveland. I hate when people act like Phil Savage, the GM is on the hot seat aswell. Phil is doing wonders for our team specifically in FA and the draft. Just look at our 1st round picks without him compared to with him. Better yet he allways finds a stud in RD2 etc...

Bill Cowher will be our head coach next year mark it down. Hes got the 3-4 deffense he likes in place with some solid young talent and he opened his career up in Cleveland and loved it. It might cost around 7-10 mill a year to get him in which case you almost have to make him your GM with total control.

You just contradicted yourself with that post............

Borat
08-14-2007, 01:06 PM
It's laughable that Nolan is on this list. Might as well throw Belichick on there as well. He hasn't won in 2 years.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 01:56 PM
It's laughable that Nolan is on this list. Might as well throw Belichick on there as well. He hasn't won in 2 years.Bellicheck in the last two years = 22-10, 3-2 in the playoffs

Nolan in the last two years = 11-21

You're right that is laughable.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 01:57 PM
It's been 9 years since Holmgren left the Packers already? Wow.
I thought that myself, I was a little suprised at how long Holmgren has been in Seattle. Not a whole lot to show for it other than that one trip to the Superbowl.

Geo
08-14-2007, 02:05 PM
Nolan also inherited what was likely the worst roster (and maybe even franchise) in the league at the time of his hiring. He's not anywhere close to the hot seat imo.

Addict
08-14-2007, 02:07 PM
Bellicheck in the last two years = 22-10, 3-2 in the playoffs Patriots, nuff said

Nolan in the last two years = 11-21 rebuilding 49ers

You're right that is laughable.

you can't compare the two.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 02:16 PM
you can't compare the two.Exactly...

SuperMcGee
08-14-2007, 02:55 PM
Let's also throw out Dick Jauron in Buffalo.

He's been our best coach since the turn of the millenium in my eyes. I don't think he's at all on the hot seat in his 2nd year, and if we're not atrocious with our young team then I surely want him as our coach heading into a bright 2008.

Borat
08-14-2007, 03:11 PM
Bellicheck in the last two years = 22-10, 3-2 in the playoffs

Nolan in the last two years = 11-21

You're right that is laughable.

So ...... you're basing the hot seat on wins/losses only? In that case, Nolan should be fired immediately. In the real world, Nolan's job is quite secure. Care to make a wager?

Eaglez.Fan
08-14-2007, 03:17 PM
I'd put Joe Gibbs higher but, it looks pretty good. And good job.

Race for the Heisman
08-14-2007, 03:23 PM
I think Nolan and Lewis both have a year before they are on the hot seat. Nolan has done well with minimal talent so he will probably get at least two chances to fail with a better roster. Lewis is the same for me. He hasn't been great, but he hasn't screwed up enough to warrant anything this year.

SFbear
08-14-2007, 04:12 PM
So what happens to Norv Turner if the Chargers somehow don't make the playoffs this year. With a team that loaded with talent isn't Norv already on the hotseat to make some noise in the playoffs.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 04:14 PM
So what happens to Norv Turner if the Chargers somehow don't make the playoffs this year. With a team that loaded with talent isn't Norv already on the hotseat to make some noise in the playoffs.

He could be just a stop gap coach but it would depend on the circumstances on why they won't make the playoffs. I mean if they were decimated with injuries then probably not, but if they just underperformed then possibly.

Rob S
08-14-2007, 05:00 PM
Damn I totally forgot about Marvin Lewis. He was supposed to be 7th but it slipped my mind.

Wade is a possibility but if the Cowboys struggle I don't see the logic in promoting from within. Then again they did hire Dave Campo.

I love Brian Billick. He can do no wrong in my book. Same with Jeff Fisher.


I like marvin lewis a lot, if he just gets his head on straight with regard to not bringing in low character guys, he can be a great HC. It was just a few years ago the Bengals were hopeless.

umphrey
08-14-2007, 05:01 PM
On a somewhat unrelated note, I hate it when people make top X lists and then cram 2 choices into one selection. It's your list, just make it the top X+1 list rather than trying to be sneaky or something...

Rob S
08-14-2007, 05:03 PM
He's been our best coach since the turn of the millenium in my eyes. I don't think he's at all on the hot seat in his 2nd year, and if we're not atrocious with our young team then I surely want him as our coach heading into a bright 2008.


no way Juaron is in danger unless the team just falls off the deep end. The players like him and Marv Levy is pretty patient and knows that this is still a developing team. I cant see Juaron getting fired unless the bills go 5-11 or worse, but i dont expect that whatsoever.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 06:15 PM
So ...... you're basing the hot seat on wins/losses only? In that case, Nolan should be fired immediately. In the real world, Nolan's job is quite secure. Care to make a wager?
Nolan's job is secure now. If he only wins 4-5 games it is not. And no I don't care to make a wager because I don't know or care who you are and likely won't remember this thread past tomorrow.

SubNoize
08-14-2007, 06:21 PM
you lost all credibility with me when you simply couldn't spell "KIFFIN" the right way.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 06:22 PM
you lost all credibility with me when you simply couldn't spell "KIFFIN" the right way.

Sorry...I'm about as interested in the Raiders as I am the Dr. Phil show. He's gonna be fired in two years and nobody will remember him anyway.

SubNoize
08-14-2007, 06:24 PM
Sorry...I'm about as interested in the Raiders as I am the Dr. Phil show. He's gonna be fired in two years and nobody will remember him anyway.

wow and your football IQ drops again, nice assumptions there buddy. let's just ignore what he's done this offseason and the countless people who would agree that he has the team energized and headed in the right direction.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 06:33 PM
wow and your football IQ drops again, nice assumptions there buddy. let's just ignore what he's done this offseason and the countless people who would agree that he has the team energized and headed in the right direction.

Are any of those "countless people" not Raiders fans? Anyone with deductive reasoning skills and a brain can see that the Raiders are a haplessly pathetic franchise. He was what, their third choice for head coach? There are high school jobs that are more desireable than working for the Raiders. Get your head out of your homer ass. You just sound silly talking about football IQ and then saying the Raiders are headed in the right direction. What direction would that be? Relocation?

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 06:35 PM
wow and your football IQ drops again, nice assumptions there buddy. let's just ignore what he's done this offseason and the countless people who would agree that he has the team energized and headed in the right direction.

They traded their best WR for a 4th round pick, they can't even sign their first round pick, and they still haven't addressed the pathetic excuse of an offensive line that they have. How is that the right direction?

Borat
08-14-2007, 06:36 PM
wow and your football IQ drops again, nice assumptions there buddy. let's just ignore what he's done this offseason and the countless people who would agree that he has the team energized and headed in the right direction.

Agreed. This thread became worthless a couple posts back when he said "Nolan's job is secure now" yet he ranks No. 5 on his list of coaches that could be fired this year ... and he stands by that assertion. Lame.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 06:40 PM
Agreed. This thread became worthless a couple posts back when he said "Nolan's job is secure now" yet he ranks No. 5 on his list of coaches that could be fired this year ... and he stands by that assertion. Lame.

There are only three coaches on that list that I would consider not having a secure job. Almost everyone is secure until they start losing. Sure Nolan looks solid now but expectations are unquestionably high in Niner land and a lot of that is on Alex Smith's unproven shoulders. If he fails to live up to expectations it's much more likely that they are going to fire the guy that coached and took a part in drafting him than parting ways with the guy they gave a massive signing bonus to. I've countlessly given reasons why, yours consist of "people really like him in San Fran" and "wanna make a bet?". Everyone likes Nolan because they think the Niners are on the upswing, but I think it's 30% tops that the Niners make the playoffs this year. They are likely in for a dissapointment.

SubNoize
08-14-2007, 06:46 PM
Are any of those "countless people" not Raiders fans? Anyone with deductive reasoning skills and a brain can see that the Raiders are a haplessly pathetic franchise. He was what, their third choice for head coach? There are high school jobs that are more desireable than working for the Raiders. Get your head out of your homer ass. You just sound silly talking about football IQ and then saying the Raiders are headed in the right direction. What direction would that be? Relocation?

do you honestly follow football at all? ESPN on monday night football said they were headed in the right direction... I know ESPN is the be all end all source for sports, but they are very anti-raider most of the time and even they recognize that we're going in the right direction. Mark flippin Schlereth gave the Raiders credit and that's about as likely as pigs flying at most times. Just because you have failed to follow the Raiders offseason outside of us not signing Rusell, doesn't make me a homer for noticing the changes. The offensive line made dramatic improvement in the run game and are looking good in pass protection as well. against the cardinals there were screen passes executed as well as short slants and smokescreen passes, which were non existent in shell's regime. before you shoot your mouth off on topics you have no credible knowledge of, make sure you actually know what the hell you're talking about.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Ok well when the Raiders win 4 games again come on back and read that. I'm sure you were excited when they hired Art Shell too. Gotta love the offseason.

JK17
08-14-2007, 06:52 PM
do you honestly follow football at all? ESPN on monday night football said they were headed in the right direction... I know ESPN is the be all end all source for sports, but they are very anti-raider most of the time and even they recognize that we're going in the right direction. Mark flippin Schlereth gave the Raiders credit and that's about as likely as pigs flying at most times. Just because you have failed to follow the Raiders offseason outside of us not signing Rusell, doesn't make me a homer for noticing the changes. The offensive line made dramatic improvement in the run game and are looking good in pass protection as well. against the cardinals there were screen passes executed as well as short slants and smokescreen passes, which were non existent in shell's regime. before you shoot your mouth off on topics you have no credible knowledge of, make sure you actually know what the hell you're talking about.

Well damn, when you say it like that its unbelievable that they could be one of the worst teams in the league....

Their Quarterback situation is a disaster. Their runningbacks are improved by bringing in Rhodes, their O-Line is still a mess, their WR core is led by someone who hasn't done anything in a couple years (and it's not even Randy Moss), their TE is a rookie, and the only bright spot on that team is a pretty good defense, which may be able to complement that anemic offense just well enough to win 4-6 games.

What they have done in the preseason game, against Arizona mind you, doesn't indicate Lane Kiffin has turned this team round. And lets say they do manage to win 4 games this year. Then 5 the next. You really don't think Al Davis won't fire him? That's improvement, but it sure as hell would be difficult to take steps back from 2-14, everything is improvement. If he's not winning and making a run at the playoffs, with Davis he's on the hot seat.



Kinda reminds you of the commerical...."I don't care if it is preseason, the Raiders are 4-0 baby.".....

Windy
08-14-2007, 06:56 PM
people don't see how badly the team was coached last year. they just see stat lines and say whatever comes to mind. we actually have a real life offensive line coach and a real life offensive coordinator. not some mayor guy who hadn't worked for a decade.

seriously look at who we had...tom walsh and john shoop as the OC.

neko4
08-14-2007, 06:56 PM
QB- Right now their best QB is McCown. I think Culpepper isnt healthy enough yet and Russell was a terrible pick.

RB- They have a good RB by comitee system going.

WR- Porter is a good #2 and Curry could be good but gets hurt way to often. Gabriel aint bad, but dont expect anything great from him.

TE- Miller was a nice pickup.

OL- Is terrible. QB's will be sacked all day and RB's will have no where to go.

DL- Very good here. Though how much longer will Sapp be a good DT.

LB- Howard and Morrison are good, but who will line up next to them is the problem.

DB- Good starting CB's and good depth here. S spots are of some concern.


I also wanna see how will Kiffin makes the jump from Ast in college to HC in pros
Really theyre just a bit better than last year

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 07:01 PM
people don't see how badly the team was coached last year. they just see stat lines and say whatever comes to mind. we actually have a real life offensive line coach and a real life offensive coordinator. not some mayor guy who hadn't worked for a decade.

seriously look at who we had...tom walsh and john shoop as the OC.
The Raiders, outside of Jon Gruden, have been poorly coached since the first time Art Shell was coach (and even then it wasn't anything special). People constantly turn the Raiders job down because there's no job security, which is why Davis is forced to hire guys like Shell, Bugel, or in this case a guy that has absolutely no credentials to be an NFL head coach.

I mean..was Art Shell a poor coach? Sure. But why does a guy that wasn't even entrusted to run a college offense going to make drastic improvements in the NFL with overall terrible talent?

Windy
08-14-2007, 07:09 PM
The Raiders, outside of Jon Gruden, have been poorly coached since the first time Art Shell was coach (and even then it wasn't anything special). People constantly turn the Raiders job down because there's no job security, which is why Davis is forced to hire guys like Shell, Bugel, or in this case a guy that has absolutely no credentials to be an NFL head coach.

I mean..was Art Shell a poor coach? Sure. But why does a guy that wasn't even entrusted to run a college offense going to make drastic improvements in the NFL with overall terrible talent?

i agree kiffin as a head coach is a very risky move but from what i have read/seen i feel comfortable saying the team will win at least a few more games. when shell was hired i knew the season would suck. to think we could of had sean payton instead of norv turner :|

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 07:11 PM
i agree kiffin as a head coach is a very risky move but from what i have read/seen i feel comfortable saying the team will win at least a few more games. when shell was hired i knew the season would suck. to think we could of had sean payton instead of norv turner :|
As I recall Sean Payton was another coach that turned the Raiders job down.

scottyboy
08-14-2007, 07:11 PM
SWEET Coughlin is number one in a coaches rankings!! (I'll take what i can get right now...)

Borat
08-14-2007, 07:22 PM
There are only three coaches on that list that I would consider not having a secure job. Almost everyone is secure until they start losing. Sure Nolan looks solid now but expectations are unquestionably high in Niner land and a lot of that is on Alex Smith's unproven shoulders. If he fails to live up to expectations it's much more likely that they are going to fire the guy that coached and took a part in drafting him than parting ways with the guy they gave a massive signing bonus to. I've countlessly given reasons why, yours consist of "people really like him in San Fran" and "wanna make a bet?". Everyone likes Nolan because they think the Niners are on the upswing, but I think it's 30% tops that the Niners make the playoffs this year. They are likely in for a dissapointment.

Well, obviously I need to educate you since you're the only one that thinks he's on the hot seat (although you kind of flip-flopped so I don't know for sure). Anyway, here's why he isn't on the hotseat:

1. Yes, he has an 11-21 record the past 2 years. The previous coach had a 9-23 record in 2 years.
2. He took over a franchise that had the least amount of talent I've ever seen on an NFL team. They had numerous "street" free agents STARTING games.
3. He had to sit around for 2 years trying to get the team cap healthy. We're you expecting playoff teams from SF the past 2 years? No? Neither did ownership.
4. He's been bringing along a young, No. 1 QB. His first season was a disaster. No offensive line, no talent to throw to, and an injury wiped out most of the first year.
5. As I said before, the owner loves him. Why? Because he went for his job interview and showed Dr. York he's got balls. He straight up asked him why everyone thinks he's cheap. He told him that his way wasn't working. He told him what needed to be done and the price tag involved. York bought into him and his vision. You don't can that vision midway through the journey, especially when it's coming to fruition.
6. He had to rebuild not only the team on the field, but the management team as well. He made a great hire in Scot McCloughan as personnel director. Parage Marathe is their cap guy and he's doing wonders. The contracts they've signed recently are brilliantly done and leave the team in position to never enter Salary Cap Hell again. Look for yourself: http://ninercaphell.com/
7. He convinced the tight-ass owner to open up his wallet to purchase much needed new practice facility and also weight room.
8. He's done well in the draft. Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley are all potential probowlers.

I think that's sufficient enough to get him off the hot seat (although, you seem to be the only one putting him there anyway.)

Ewing
08-14-2007, 07:24 PM
Dude, how could you leave out Tony Dungy and Bill Belichick? Those guys have been on the hot seat for the past three years.

JoeMontainya
08-14-2007, 07:25 PM
You just contradicted yourself with that post............

No I didnt. The first paragraph I pointed out that Savage shouldnt be on the hot seat because he is doing a great job.

The second article I was just pointing out that if your going to pay a coach that much money (around or close to 10 mill a season), then he has to have more duties than just head coach to earn all the money. In which case they might fire Savage to make room under the cap were alloud for coaches etc.....

basically Im saying he should stay, but if somehow we got Cowher, we might not be able to keep him.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 08:11 PM
Well, obviously I need to educate you since you're the only one that thinks he's on the hot seat (although you kind of flip-flopped so I don't know for sure). Anyway, here's why he isn't on the hotseat:

1. Yes, he has an 11-21 record the past 2 years. The previous coach had a 9-23 record in 2 years.
2. He took over a franchise that had the least amount of talent I've ever seen on an NFL team. They had numerous "street" free agents STARTING games.
3. He had to sit around for 2 years trying to get the team cap healthy. We're you expecting playoff teams from SF the past 2 years? No? Neither did ownership.
4. He's been bringing along a young, No. 1 QB. His first season was a disaster. No offensive line, no talent to throw to, and an injury wiped out most of the first year.
5. As I said before, the owner loves him. Why? Because he went for his job interview and showed Dr. York he's got balls. He straight up asked him why everyone thinks he's cheap. He told him that his way wasn't working. He told him what needed to be done and the price tag involved. York bought into him and his vision. You don't can that vision midway through the journey, especially when it's coming to fruition.
6. He had to rebuild not only the team on the field, but the management team as well. He made a great hire in Scot McCloughan as personnel director. Parage Marathe is their cap guy and he's doing wonders. The contracts they've signed recently are brilliantly done and leave the team in position to never enter Salary Cap Hell again. Look for yourself: http://ninercaphell.com/
7. He convinced the tight-ass owner to open up his wallet to purchase much needed new practice facility and also weight room.
8. He's done well in the draft. Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley are all potential probowlers.

I think that's sufficient enough to get him off the hot seat (although, you seem to be the only one putting him there anyway.)
Every single thing you listed there is predicated on the fact that the Niners are getting better and will be a good team this year. What I'm saying is that if they aren't, he's on the hot seat. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

"Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley are all potential probowlers".

Oohh...I know now. Because you're a massive homer. Other than Gore what has ANY of those players done to justify a statement even remotely close to that. Because they were drafted high? That makes them a good draft pick? Use your ******* brain before you start "educating" me.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 08:23 PM
Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley are all potential probowlers.

WTF?

Alex Smith - Well if Tony Romo can go to the Pro Bowl in the NFC based on half a season then I guess anyone can be a considered a Pro Bowl caliber QB in the NFC

Vernon Davis - Lets see what he can do about staying healthy for a season before we start that noise.

Manny Lawson - No he hasn't done anything to think that in his 1 season of work.

Patrick Willis and Joe Staley - They haven't even played a regular season game.

Borat
08-14-2007, 08:34 PM
Every single thing you listed there is predicated on the fact that the Niners are getting better and will be a good team this year. What I'm saying is that if they aren't, he's on the hot seat. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

Because it's incorrect. The Niners could go 2-14 this year and Nolan would be the coach next year. This thread is about coaches that could get fired THIS year. I explained many different reasons why he isn't on the hot seat. His job has been more than just coach on the field. He's had to overhaul the entire organization. You don't fire the architect in the middle of building the house. Especially when you're happy with the architect's work so far.


"Alex Smith, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley are all potential probowlers".

What part of "potential" don't you understand?

Oohh...I know now. Because you're a massive homer. Other than Gore what has ANY of those players done to justify a statement even remotely close to that. Because they were drafted high? That makes them a good draft pick? Use your ******* brain before you start "educating" me.

Yes they were drafted high. And all in the past 2 years. A draft can't even be evaluated until after 3 seasons. I said potential probowlers. FN Walt Harris went to the probowl, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that those players could make it as well.

bearsfan_51
08-14-2007, 08:37 PM
Funny how you only respond to mine. Patrick Willis is a potential pro-bowler in the same way that Paris Lenon is a potential pro-bowler. That's just a stupid thing to say. Saying that they were good draft picks before they've done anything, (or in the case of Smith arguably not met expectations) is being a homer.

And what exactly is everyone happy about in San Fran in terms of his "work"? Is it the fact that everyone thinks you'll win the division this year? What happens if you suck and the team the "architect" built turns out to be an overrated and overpaid pile of junk?

Borat
08-14-2007, 08:42 PM
Fine, remove the point about his past drafts. I'll admit it's a bit homeristic. The other points were valid. Nolan isn't on the hotseat. It's that simple.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 08:49 PM
Fine, remove the point about his past drafts. I'll admit it's a bit homeristic. The other points were valid. Nolan isn't on the hotseat. It's that simple.

For the last time, he will be if they only win 4-5 games!

Borat
08-14-2007, 08:57 PM
For the last time, he will be if they only win 4-5 games!

And for the last time, he said on the hotseat THIS SEASON

Here's the original post:


I thought I would delve into a favorite pastime of mine and speculate on what coaches are at the most risk of getting fired this season.

BigDawg819
08-14-2007, 09:11 PM
And for the last time, he said on the hotseat THIS SEASON


"5) Mike Nolan

Here's where it gets interesting. Currently nobody is talking about Nolan being on the hot seat, and that the Niners are a team primed for a huge upswing, but here's the kicker. What if it doesn't happen? What if Alex Smith doesn't develop? What if the money spent in the offseason doesn't result in a playoff berth? Mike Nolan's future is directly tied to Alex Smith. If Smith succeeds, Nolan is a hero. If not....he's a guy with an 11-21 record in San Fran. Some may criticize this pick, but the days of San Fran being a low-pressure job are over. Just like Crennel, he needs to produce or he could be gonzo. This is the same owner that fired Dennis Erickson after two season and Mariucci after he won the division and a playoff game."


That right there clearly states why he's on the hot seat and it all has to do with the final record of the team. Winning record and possible playoff berth, he's off the hot seat; 4-5 wins, he's waiting for a pink slip and typing up his resume.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2007, 10:09 PM
wow and your football IQ drops again, nice assumptions there buddy. let's just ignore what he's done this offseason and the countless people who would agree that he has the team energized and headed in the right direction.

No offense, but didn't we hear the same exact statements from Raiders fans about Art Shell last year?

LOL @ BF51's responses. That cute lil critter.

Larry
08-15-2007, 12:21 AM
For the last time, he will be if they only win 4-5 games!

Nolan will be here long term even if the Niners by some chance struggle this season.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 12:30 AM
Nolan will be here long term even if the Niners by some chance struggle this season.

Gents the owner of the 49ers is a poster on our forum......... :rolleyes:

Larry
08-15-2007, 12:36 AM
Gents the owner of the 49ers is a poster on our forum......... :rolleyes:

Like you saying Nolan will be fired if the Niners struggle this season gives you anymore inside Knowledge then any other Niner fan.

neko4
08-15-2007, 12:38 AM
FACT:
Joe Gibbs has been the most sucessful coach in WAS since Joe Gibbs was the coach of WAS

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 12:40 AM
Like you saying Nolan will be fired if the Niners struggle this season gives you anymore inside Knowledge then any other Niner fan.

I'm not a 49ers fan, never have nor will I ever be, hence me having a more unbiased opinion of the realities of his job situation.

stl9erfan
08-15-2007, 01:04 AM
I'm not a 49ers fan, never have nor will I ever be, hence me having a more unbiased opinion of the realities of his job situation.

Or, maybe because he is a Niners' fan, he has his finger more on the pulse of what other Niner fans are thinking. And based on the improvement and change in attitude around the team, Nolan has bought himself a good deal of goodwill/slack from the local fanbase.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 01:12 AM
Or, maybe because he is a Niners' fan, he has his finger more on the pulse of what other Niner fans are thinking. And based on the improvement and change in attitude around the team, Nolan has bought himself a good deal of goodwill/slack from the local fanbase.

Maybe but the fans don't decide who stays and how goes now do they? Like it or not this is a make or break year for Nolan.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 01:22 AM
What is this improvement that Niners fans keep talking about? Yeah you aren't at the bottom of the barrel anymore but I swear some of you are talking like the Niners have already accomplished something. You won 7 games last year and you still got absolutely blown out against almost every good team you played. I mean...you got swept by the Cardinals...seriously...get a grip.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 01:36 AM
What is this improvement that Niners fans keep talking about? Yeah you aren't at the bottom of the barrel anymore but I swear some of you are talking like the Niners have already accomplished something. You won 7 games last year and you still got absolutely blown out against almost every good team you played. I mean...you got swept by the Cardinals...seriously...get a grip.

But they spent 100+ million on Nate Clements and Michael Lewis and traded for Darrell Jackson.............................


*Note that this is sarcasm*

Paranoidmoonduck
08-15-2007, 02:04 AM
I mean..was Art Shell a poor coach? Sure. But why does a guy that wasn't even entrusted to run a college offense going to make drastic improvements in the NFL with overall terrible talent?

I could be wrong about this, but I'm almost certain that Kiffin called the plays at USC while also directing the recruiting department. I'm not sold on the guy or the team yet, but there's more talent and a vastly more modern approach this year than there was last.

The offense will still struggle, the defense will still be less than stellar against the run, and who knows how Russell will pan out, but the team is actually going somewhere, which is something I haven't seen in a long time.

On the original topic:

If Mike Nolan wins 4-5 games (and does so in a truly inept manner), then sure, he's on the hot seat. But that seems like a pretty ridiculous premise when you consider the 49ers position. Nothing suggests that team is headed anywhere but up at this point.

Other than that, I liked the list and the analysis that went along with it.

Larry
08-15-2007, 04:31 AM
What is this improvement that Niners fans keep talking about? Yeah you aren't at the bottom of the barrel anymore but I swear some of you are talking like the Niners have already accomplished something. You won 7 games last year and you still got absolutely blown out against almost every good team you played. I mean...you got swept by the Cardinals...seriously...get a grip.

If you can't see the Niners are improving maybe you need wake up and pay a little more attention instead of asking What If a thousand times. This offseason we used a great mixture of both free agency and the draft to improve the team and we didn't have any huge losses personnel wise. Last season Alex went through his first( At only 22 years old) full season as a starter so of course he took his bumps and bruises against tough teams like the Chiefs, Chargers and Bears. Now if any fan should know anything about giving a young QB his first full season to develop it should be a bears fan considering Grossman finally just had his.

BTW seeing as how the Bears needed two defensive turnovers for Td's, a last minute miracle punt return by Devin Hester while Grossman threw 4 ints. I definitely wouldn't make it seem like the Cards were a cakewalk at times this season. Besides both Cardinal victories over the Niners were by 7 points or less, not exactly dominance.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 11:01 AM
I could be wrong about this, but I'm almost certain that Kiffin called the plays at USC while also directing the recruiting department. I'm not sold on the guy or the team yet, but there's more talent and a vastly more modern approach this year than there was last.

Offensive play calling responsibilities for USC were shared during this period with QB coach Steve Sarkisian having on the field approval for Kiffin’s suggestions and head coach Pete Carroll maintaining veto power. Lack of clarity and final say over play calling responsibility has left some controversy over how much decision making power Kiffin wielded versus Sarkisian and Carroll during his two year tenure as offensive coordinator.

So...you're not wrong, but you're not really right either. When I said he wasn't entrusted to run the offense I didn't mean he had no part, but it's similar to the way Brad Childress 'ran' the offense in Philadelphia when everyone knows that Andy Reid had final authority.



As for the Niners. Congrats. You won the offseason. Look how well that's worked out for the Panthers and Redskins the last few years. You'd think people would learn at some point.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 11:09 AM
No offense, but didn't we hear the same exact statements from Raiders fans about Art Shell last year?

LOL @ BF51's responses. That cute lil critter.

no we didn't. you heard media propoganda about shell bringing the "discipline back" but all along if you read into it further you could see that from TC reports that the offensive was a blunder of epic proportions. I actually read an article that said that the coaches barely knew the players names. Our ST coach called Stu "Steve." You also could have read that of all our 3 "line coaches" each tought a different technique. This year, all the players are known by name, the line has 1 voice in Tom Cable and the offense has been schemed to fit this era, and wasn't dusted off from underneath a bed and breakfast bed. That alone is worth another couple wins. I'm not trying to homer out and call for a huge turnaround but we won't be in the cellar of the league after this year at all. I also love how USC fans blame Kiffin for bad play calling but in here Carroll and Sark had power to veto....interesting.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 11:13 AM
no we didn't. you heard media propoganda about shell bringing the "discipline back" but all along if you read into it further you could see that from TC reports that the offensive was a blunder of epic proportions. I actually read an article that said that the coaches barely knew the players names. Our ST coach called Stu "Steve." You also could have read that of all our 3 "line coaches" each tought a different technique. This year, all the players are known by name, the line has 1 voice in Tom Cable and the offense has been schemed to fit this era, and wasn't dusted off from underneath a bed and breakfast bed. That alone is worth another couple wins. I'm not trying to homer out and call for a huge turnaround but we won't be in the cellar of the league after this year at all. I also love how USC fans blame Kiffin for bad play calling but in here Carroll and Sark had power to veto....interesting.

So the turmoil at the QB position, the lack of any real receiving threats, and a still horrendous offensive line won't leave them in the cellar.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 11:26 AM
So the turmoil at the QB position, the lack of any real receiving threats, and a still horrendous offensive line won't leave them in the cellar.

where are you getting this horrendous line from? I know it was preseason but they opened up gaping holes and allowed 0 sacks in their first real test with cutting down defenders. Last year in the preseason opener the line gave up 4 an indication of things to come. There's no turmoil at QB either, Kiffin will pick 1, more than likely McCown to open, with Culpepper likely to step in if/when he falters. Walter is probably the odd man out when Russell signs. The receiving core is servicable, Curry is very solid as a #2 and Porter has had a couple standout seasons as well, there's no true #1 as of yet but both players want to play unlike Moss and we've pushed god awful Whitted out of the lineup. The offense is shaping out to be average or slightly below, but that's better than an offense that posted 12 scores over 16 games. You of course are speaking out of your ass based on what you've seen reported on ESPN and NFLN, which like to play up controversy, just like them saying Russell isn't close to signing even though he's been in the bay area the last few days, but that doesn't make for good TV. but go ahead throw some more stupid assumptions out there buddy.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-15-2007, 11:32 AM
As for the Niners. Congrats. You won the offseason. Look how well that's worked out for the Panthers and Redskins the last few years. You'd think people would learn at some point.

Learn what? That having a good offseason means the team is going to suck and the head coach will get fired?

You based your Nolan prediction in a unlikely and unreliable premise, and acting like it's a done deal that the Niners go 4-12 or 5-11 won't change that. On top of that you ranked Nolan rather high on a list of coaches in danger of losing their jobs simply on that premise.

You could basically argue that almost any coach is going to feel a lot of heat for winning only 4-5 games with a team that has playoff aspirations.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 11:35 AM
where are you getting this horrendous line from? I know it was preseason but they opened up gaping holes and allowed 0 sacks in their first real test with cutting down defenders. Last year in the preseason opener the line gave up 4 an indication of things to come. There's no turmoil at QB either, Kiffin will pick 1, more than likely McCown to open, with Culpepper likely to step in if/when he falters. Walter is probably the odd man out when Russell signs. The receiving core is servicable, Curry is very solid as a #2 and Porter has had a couple standout seasons as well, there's no true #1 as of yet but both players want to play unlike Moss and we've pushed god awful Whitted out of the lineup. The offense is shaping out to be average or slightly below, but that's better than an offense that posted 12 scores over 16 games. You of course are speaking out of your ass based on what you've seen reported on ESPN and NFLN, which like to play up controversy, just like them saying Russell isn't close to signing even though he's been in the bay area the few days, but that doesn't make for good TV. but go ahead throw some more stupid assumptions out there buddy.


Nice homer comeback. Yes you have turmoil at the QB spot with your choices being McNown or Culpepper not to mention that you still haven't signed Russell. Again no real receiving threats, Porter is coming off a season to forget and has to try and regain his old form and Curry is always an injury risk. This is not speaking out of my ass, its simple logic. As for the line, it was the worst in the league last year and nothing drastic was done to really address it, but hey if you want to hail their greatness based on 1 preseason game go ahead. Just wait until facing the Broncos or Chargers and you'll be reminded of the mediocrity of the line once again. As for the Raiders being mentioned on ESPN or NFLN, I just switch the channel because I just consider it a commercial.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 11:42 AM
Learn what? That having a good offseason means the team is going to suck and the head coach will get fired?

You based your Nolan prediction in a unlikely and unreliable premise, and acting like it's a done deal that the Niners go 4-12 or 5-11 won't change that. On top of that you ranked Nolan rather high on a list of coaches in danger of losing their jobs simply on that premise.

You could basically argue that almost any coach is going to feel a lot of heat for winning only 4-5 games with a team that has playoff aspirations.
Not really. Coaches that have proven success are much less likely to be fired after a down season. For example, if the Bears only won 5 games next year, Lovie Smith would still have a job, he's earned that. That alone knocks about 10 guys off the top.

Also, I never said that the Niners would win 4-5 games. But, in terms of ranking them, after the first four it's pretty up for grabs. Are the Niners more likely to have a losing season than the Panthers and Bengals? You bet your ass they are. So...after the four most obvious guys, you're basically choosing between Fox, Lewis, Nolan, Gibbs and Del Rio. Admittedly Del Rio probably should be higher than Nolan, and maybe Gibbs too, but you can't convince me the other two should. They are much more likely to see success this year. I'm not going on the assumption that the Niners will win 4-5 games, but I'm also not going on the assumption that they are somehow going to improve until they do something substantial on the field. Call me crazy but I like reasoned empirical proof when I'm speculating.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 11:51 AM
Nice homer comeback. Yes you have turmoil at the QB spot with your choices being McNown or Culpepper not to mention that you still haven't signed Russell. Again no real receiving threats, Porter is coming off a season to forget and has to try and regain his old form and Curry is always an injury risk. This is not speaking out of my ass, its simple logic. As for the line, it was the worst in the league last year and nothing drastic was done to really address it, but hey if you want to hail their greatness based on 1 preseason game go ahead. Just wait until facing the Broncos or Chargers and you'll be reminded of the mediocrity of the line once again. As for the Raiders being mentioned on ESPN or NFLN, I just switch the channel because I just consider it a commercial.

You are seriosuly clueless... there's no arguing with someone who has no logic. McCown has the mobility needed to run the offense we've installed, and Culpepper seemed a bit stiff but was rolling out something he didn't do all of last year. So we have 2 QBS that fit our scheme but there's turmoil because one is coming off a 2 year old injury and the other has never had a chance to start for a semi-workable squad? I didn't know that missing a year was impossible to come back from, i guess Porter should give up now. I'm not hailing the lines' greatness based on a preseason game, but the imporvement was obvious, I bet you din't watch the game so I'm sure you wouldn't know. Funny you mention the Broncos despite them having a horrid pass rush last season, and are yet to show much improvement this year. The Chargers beat up on a lot of people last year and I'm sure they'll do the same this year to us considering that we're not on an elite level like they are, so wow, we're going to get beat by the best team in the AFC. It's ok you made your ignorant comment int he end there too, I'd bash your QB situation which is worse than ours, but I'm cool with T-Sizzle so I can't hate on the Ravens.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 12:11 PM
I'm just curious SubNoize, how many games do you think the Raiders will win this year?

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 12:22 PM
You are seriosuly clueless... there's no arguing with someone who has no logic. McCown has the mobility needed to run the offense we've installed, and Culpepper seemed a bit stiff but was rolling out something he didn't do all of last year. So we have 2 QBS that fit our scheme but there's turmoil because one is coming off a 2 year old injury and the other has never had a chance to start for a semi-workable squad? I didn't know that missing a year was impossible to come back from, i guess Porter should give up now. I'm not hailing the lines' greatness based on a preseason game, but the imporvement was obvious, I bet you din't watch the game so I'm sure you wouldn't know. Funny you mention the Broncos despite them having a horrid pass rush last season, and are yet to show much improvement this year. The Chargers beat up on a lot of people last year and I'm sure they'll do the same this year to us considering that we're not on an elite level like they are, so wow, we're going to get beat by the best team in the AFC. It's ok you made your ignorant comment int he end there too, I'd bash your QB situation which is worse than ours, but I'm cool with T-Sizzle so I can't hate on the Ravens.

First of all, I hate to say it, but the Ravens' QB situation is set with McNair and regardless our situation is irrelevant to this conversation. Secondly your basing your assessment of your QB position being stable on the backs of 2 journey men QB's? McNown was relegated to being a 3rd string WR in order to get into games and Culpepper has yet to prove he has recovered from that horrific injury, but now all of a sudden with a Raider uniform on their backs all is changed? And lastly the Broncos, yeah they didn't do nothing to improve their defense, they didn't trade for Dre Bly or draft Jarvin Moss or Marcus Thomas............ :rolleyes:

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 12:23 PM
I'm just curious SubNoize, how many games do you think the Raiders will win this year?

I'm saying 5 or 6 for now until I see more improvement on offense with best case scenario being 7.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 12:32 PM
First of all, I hate to say it, but the Ravens' QB situation is set with McNair and regardless our situation is irrelevant to this conversation. Secondly your basing your assessment of your QB position being stable on the backs of 2 journey men QB's? McNown was relegated to being a 3rd string WR in order to get into games and Culpepper has yet to prove he has recovered from that horrific injury, but now all of a sudden with a Raider uniform on their backs all is changed? And lastly the Broncos, yeah they didn't do nothing to improve their defense, they didn't trade for Dre Bly or draft Jarvin Moss or Marcus Thomas............ :rolleyes:

so you're basing Denver getting better on drafting 2 rookies, one who couldn't keep his ass out of trouble? Tim Crowder would have been better than tossing in Thomas, but I don't know what the outcome of his injury was from the game the other night. Dre Bly is highly overrated and does nothing for the pass rush, so that was irrelevant. Culpepper is a journeyman now? Also if you would have paid attention to my statement you would notice the mention of Culpepper being able to roll out, a good sign that the knee has progressed. McCown, which you can't spell, was moved to WR by the Lions, I have little room to talk but when was the last time they made a good personnel decision? I'm not acting like anything has changed, you're just clueless talking about Raider football and shouldn't talk. You say the Ravens are set at QB, but for how long? Is McNair not an oft-injured player as well who's backed up by a bust QB in Boller, yeah you guys are perfect there.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 12:37 PM
so you're basing Denver getting better on drafting 2 rookies, one who couldn't keep his ass out of trouble? Tim Crowder would have been better than tossing in Thomas, but I don't know what the outcome of his injury was from the game the other night. Dre Bly is highly overrated and does nothing for the pass rush, so that was irrelevant. Culpepper is a journeyman now? Also if you would have paid attention to my statement you would notice the mention of Culpepper being able to roll out, a good sign that the knee has progressed. McCown, which you can't spell, was moved to WR by the Lions, I have little room to talk but when was the last time they made a good personnel decision? I'm not acting like anything has changed, you're just clueless talking about Raider football and shouldn't talk. You say the Ravens are set at QB, but for how long? Is McNair not an oft-injured player as well who's backed up by a bust QB in Boller, yeah you guys are perfect there.

Again its pathetic that you keep bringing up the Ravens in a discussion about the Raiders.


Yes Culpepper is a journeyman, 3 teams in the last 3 years would qualify that.

And finally by saying adding Dre Bly doesn't do anything to help the pass rush just shows your lack of football knowledge. By pairing Bly with Bailey, you know have 2 quality cover corners and the longer a QB has to wait for a receiver to get up and thus enabling the pass protection to break down and increase the chance of a sack or turnover.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 12:45 PM
Again its pathetic that you keep bringing up the Ravens in a discussion about the Raiders.


Yes Culpepper is a journeyman, 3 teams in the last 3 years would qualify that.

And finally by saying adding Dre Bly doesn't do anything to help the pass rush just shows your lack of football knowledge. By pairing Bly with Bailey, you know have 2 quality cover corners and the longer a QB has to wait for a receiver to get up and thus enabling the pass protection to break down and increase the chance of a sack or turnover.

Again like I said, Bly is overrated. I understand the concept you were going for but Bly is going to get picked on all season long because teams are going to throw opposite of Bailey, so it won't help the pass rush when teams are already going to plan on throwing Bly's way. It's even more pathetic that you attempted to discuss the Raiders knowing jack **** about the team. You have the reading comprehension of an 8 year old.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 12:50 PM
Again like I said, Bly is overrated. I understand the concept you were going for but Bly is going to get picked on all season long because teams are going to throw opposite of Bailey, so it won't help the pass rush when teams are already going to plan on throwing Bly's way. It's even more pathetic that you attempted to discuss the Raiders knowing jack **** about the team. You have the reading comprehension of an 8 year old.

I don't know the Raiders? Whats to know, Al Davis meddles to damn much in team affairs and changes coaches like he changes depends. Their QB position is in a flux with a suspect Andrew Walter and 2 journeymen in McCown and Pulpepper, they have no legitimate #1 receiver and their running game is questionable. The only bright spot for the franchise is the defense and once again they will have to depend on them to keep them in games. Thats the Raiders to a T in a nutshell. If you took off the homer glasses you could see that as well.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 01:14 PM
I don't know the Raiders? Whats to know, Al Davis meddles to damn much in team affairs and changes coaches like he changes depends. Their QB position is in a flux with a suspect Andrew Walter and 2 journeymen in McCown and Pulpepper, they have no legitimate #1 receiver and their running game is questionable. The only bright spot for the franchise is the defense and once again they will have to depend on them to keep them in games. Thats the Raiders to a T in a nutshell. If you took off the homer glasses you could see that as well.

Al Davis let Lane put together his own staff, first time he's turned the reigns over in a while, but that debunks your first statement, again showing you're behind. The jury is still out on Walter because he played behind a horrendous line. Culpepper has won in this league and is 2 years removed from his injury and could regain form and McCown is servicable enough to run the hybrid west coast offense we're going for. Porter is their #1 receiver and has played the role before and fell shy of 1,000 yards, which is an ok year for a #1. Running game is very questionable no doubt and Jordan and Rhodes are not the answer. Joe Echemandu looks to be a great fit for the one cut sytem, but we'll have to see if that pans out in the regular season. Bush is a birght spot when he's healthy and could contribute this year. So this year is questionable but if a couple guys pan out we have a good 1-2 punch for the future. Yeah thinking my franchise is going in the right direction for making coaching improvements is really homerish, especially with me picking the 5 or 6 wins, i mean that's way out of line. Take off the idiot goggles and actually look into a team before you get diarrhea of the mouth about something you know nothing of.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 01:19 PM
Andrew Walter likely won't even make the team once they sign Russell. I'd say the jury is pretty settled with him as a Raider.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 01:19 PM
Al Davis let Lane put together his own staff, first time he's turned the reigns over in a while, but that debunks your first statement, again showing you're behind. The jury is still out on Walter because he played behind a horrendous line. Culpepper has won in this league and is 2 years removed from his injury and could regain form and McCown is servicable enough to run the hybrid west coast offense we're going for. Porter is their #1 receiver and has played the role before and fell shy of 1,000 yards, which is an ok year for a #1. Running game is very questionable no doubt and Jordan and Rhodes are not the answer. Joe Echemandu looks to be a great fit for the one cut sytem, but we'll have to see if that pans out in the regular season. Bush is a birght spot when he's healthy and could contribute this year. So this year is questionable but if a couple guys pan out we have a good 1-2 punch for the future. Yeah thinking my franchise is going in the right direction for making coaching improvements is really homerish, especially with me picking the 5 or 6 wins, i mean that's way out of line. Take off the idiot goggles and actually look into a team before you get diarrhea of the mouth about something you know nothing of.


You basically agree with my assessment and yet you still insult me. Very ironic? The Raiders are rebuilding without a doubt and will still have a top 10 pick come the draft so why are you arguing?

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Andrew Walter likely won't even make the team once they sign Russell. I'd say the jury is pretty settled with him as a Raider.

i'm actually not that sure on that one, Walter has worked well with the first team and actually i'd say McCown and Walter are equally in danger of being cut, but i give a slight edge to McCown making the squad becuase of him having better mobility.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 01:38 PM
You basically agree with my assessment and yet you still insult me. Very ironic? The Raiders are rebuilding without a doubt and will still have a top 10 pick come the draft so why are you arguing?

your assessment is spotty, right in some places and you're off in others, especially about the line and your huge concern about our WRs. Porter is a legit #1 and we have a lot of guys that can step up and help out behind him. Al Davis has changed this year soo far and has given Kiffin free will, much like he did with Gruden, so that's one of your behind areas. Also, you downplay Culpepper because of his injury, but haven't responded to the fact that he's moving the best he ever has since it occured, and if he's healthy tell me he's not a top 10-15 QB in the league.

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 01:39 PM
i'm actually not that sure on that one, Walter has worked well with the first team and actually i'd say McCown and Walter are equally in danger of being cut, but i give a slight edge to McCown making the squad becuase of him having better mobility.

So McCown went from serviceable enough to run the offense for the Raiders to endanger of being cut in the span of less then 10 posts?

BigDawg819
08-15-2007, 01:41 PM
your assessment is spotty, right in some places and you're off in others, especially about the line and your huge concern about our WRs. Porter is a legit #1 and we have a lot of guys that can step up and help out behind him. Al Davis has changed this year soo far and has given Kiffin free will, much like he did with Gruden, so that's one of your behind areas. Also, you downplay Culpepper because of his injury, but haven't responded to the fact that he's moving the best he ever has since it occured, and if he's healthy tell me he's not a top 10-15 QB in the league.

So your argument about Davis changing is based off of 6 months, giving Culpepper a clean bill of health after one preseason game with a couple of series against backups, and Porter being a legit #1 and yet you fail to mention he's the #1 by default. That my friend is a spotty assessment.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 01:42 PM
So McCown went from serviceable enough to run the offense for the Raiders to endanger of being cut in the span of less then 10 posts?

yes because there is a log jam at QB and we're not going to carry 4. Both QBs have performed well with the first team, but I'm not ruling out McCown being cut. He is servicable enough to run the offense and so is Walter, but McCown has better mobility, but Walter has a better arm. It's called competition and having QBs capable of running what you need, both can do it, both would be servicable at best, but McCown has faster feet and that is an edge to him.

SubNoize
08-15-2007, 01:48 PM
So your argument about Davis changing is based off of 6 months, giving Culpepper a clean bill of health after one preseason game with a couple of series against backups, and Porter being a legit #1 and yet you fail to mention he's the #1 by default. That my friend is a spotty assessment.

6 months has brought a lot of change, new GM and football operations manager. Freddy B. left, Shell, Eatman, and Slater were booted. Kiffin installed his own staff minus Ryan, so yeah Davis has loosened up tremendously. I'm not giving Culpepper a clean bill of health, just stating he's looks a lot more mobile and can actually roll out this year. Porter's not #1 by default, Curry could have beaten him out and will actually play as a #1 in many situations because they like Porter in the slot. Truth is Porter likes Kiffin and the new offense and has worked his ass off to get the #1 spot.

Jughead10
08-15-2007, 02:01 PM
1) Tom Coughlin

This one is a given. I'm still surprised that he wasn't fired last year, but I think with the Jerry Reese as the new GM he didn't want to totally shake up the roster. Coughlin is going to likely be the scapegoat on what is the start of a rebuilding project in New York. They have a decent group of young players, but their non-chalant attitude towards losing their LT and the possible retirement of Strahan indicate that this is a team looking to rebuild and still be competitive at the same time. That's a very hard thing to do, particularly when your own players don't buy into what you're saying.

The main players who didn't buy into what Coughlin was saying, sadly enough were Tiki and Strahan. We'll see, numerous players have already said the locker room is a lot more tight and together this year. Also, I don't see what the problem is with losing our LT. Like Reese said he was an injury prone marginal LT his whole career. And suprise, suprise, he hasn't made it out of camp yet with Tampa without already suffering more chronic back injuries.

Also the defensive players hated the scheme last year. Said it multiple times last year and so far this year. Thank god Tim Lewis is gone. They love Spagnuolo's more aggresive scheme he brought over from Philly.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2007, 02:30 PM
The main players who didn't buy into what Coughlin was saying, sadly enough were Tiki and Strahan. We'll see, numerous players have already said the locker room is a lot more tight and together this year. Also, I don't see what the problem is with losing our LT. Like Reese said he was an injury prone marginal LT his whole career. And suprise, suprise, he hasn't made it out of camp yet with Tampa without already suffering more chronic back injuries.

Also the defensive players hated the scheme last year. Said it multiple times last year and so far this year. Thank god Tim Lewis is gone. They love Spagnuolo's more aggresive scheme he brought over from Philly.
I don't disagree with anything you said actually. It's very possible that the other players will buy into the scheme, but you have to admit that a lot of the 'leaders' left on the team don't exactly fit the mold of a stereotypical leader (Eli Manning, Jeremey Shockey). I won't include Plaxico because I find it hard to believe anyone on the team takes him seriously. On the other side of the ball Antonio Pierce seems to have good leadership skills, and Osi is probably the most talented player they have on the whole team, but at this point seems more worried about getting paid (not that it is atypical a lot of players).

I'm also not one to buy into the loss of Pettigout as a big loss because he wasn't that good anyway. My point on that end is that the Giants don't seem to concerned with keeping their older players around, and because of that it seems like they are trying to rebuild and remain competitive at the same time, which is never good for a coach's job security, especially one already in as deep of doo-doo as Coughlin is.

Jughead10
08-15-2007, 02:39 PM
I don't disagree with anything you said actually. It's very possible that the other players will buy into the scheme, but you have to admit that a lot of the 'leaders' left on the team don't exactly fit the mold of a stereotypical leader (Eli Manning, Jeremey Shockey). I won't include Plaxico because I find it hard to believe anyone on the team takes him seriously. On the other side of the ball Antonio Pierce seems to have good leadership skills, and Osi is probably the most talented player they have on the whole team, but at this point seems more worried about getting paid (not that it is atypical a lot of players).

I'm also not one to buy into the loss of Pettigout as a big loss because he wasn't that good anyway. My point on that end is that the Giants don't seem to concerned with keeping their older players around, and because of that it seems like they are trying to rebuild and remain competitive at the same time, which is never good for a coach's job security, especially one already in as deep of doo-doo as Coughlin is.

Antonio Pierce like you said is undeniably the leader of the defense. I don't know what you mean about Osi worrying about getting paid. He signed a fat contract extension before last season that has him locked up for a long time. As for leaders on offense, you are probably right. We kind of don't have one. Toomer is the most underrated Giants in history probably. I would want all young guys following his example. Hopefully he stays healthy this year. Jacobs also seems to be stepping up, weird enough as that is. He is very pro Coughlin and his coaching staff. As is Pierce. And Jacobs can certainly get guys fired up.