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View Full Version : I don't like the idea of indies.


DaBears9654
08-15-2007, 05:28 PM
I think that every team -- Notre Dame football included -- should be a member of a conference. In fact, being in West Point, NY & Annapolis, MD, respectively, I have thought for a few years that Army and Navy would be a perfect fit in the Big East. When a conference votes to boot a school out, fine, but, under my proposal, you would have 2 years to find a conference; that should be plenty of time. This would make the oft-discussed (especially on here) idea of a playoff more feasible.

NDfootball
08-16-2007, 12:36 AM
Well I'll take the bait and make a response.

It's every school's choice to decide to be affiliated with a conference or not to be. For most schools, it is in their best interest to be affiliated because of money and scheduling/bowl purposes.

Army and Navy are special cases. I can't see either team ever becoming a contender, so being independent allows them to schedule games with traditional rivals, and gives them a chance to have a winning record to make it into a bowl game. I believe they have ties to the poinsettia bowl or something.

ND might not be in a conference, but they have enough rivalry games to lock down a consistent schedule every season. I would say most people look at Notre Dame as a Catholic school rather than a school from Indiana. It's just tradition that they play a national schedule. Honestly would you rather see ND/USC or ND/Minnesota every year?

Making these three teams join a conference would be bad for college football. Army and Navy would get destroyed in the Big East, and they shouldn't ever join the MAC for conformity's sake. Notre Dame, like it or not is really a national team because of their religious affiliation and tradition.

neko4
08-16-2007, 12:42 AM
Is western kentucky going to the sun belt?

Sniper
08-16-2007, 01:46 AM
ND might not be in a conference, but they have enough rivalry games to lock down a consistent schedule every season. I would say most people look at Notre Dame as a Catholic school rather than a school from Indiana. It's just tradition that they play a national schedule. Honestly would you rather see ND/USC or ND/Minnesota every year?



You could easily have Minnesota and USC on the schedule every year. A lot of teams have an OOC rival that they play on a yearly basis, don't use a weak excuse like that. ND plays SC and Michigan and ND is neither in the Pac-10 or Big Ten.

JayP
08-17-2007, 01:45 AM
You could easily have Minnesota and USC on the schedule every year. A lot of teams have an OOC rival that they play on a yearly basis, don't use a weak excuse like that. ND plays SC and Michigan and ND is neither in the Pac-10 or Big Ten.

Maybe everyone should learn the history of ND and conferences before they go off. ND tried to join the Big 10 many times, but was rebuffed. So they managed to get a schedule that suits their annual needs without the need for a conference, along with great recruiting benefits. Now people want them in a conference. Tough.

If ND joins the Big 10, 3 of their 4 OOC games become USC, Stanford, and Navy. Not much scheduling room. What fun.

Join the Big East or any other major conference? Then a choice has to be made to eliminate USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford, or Navy from the schedule. I'm not really for the whole possibility of rotating them.

The Pac-10 is geographically insane, so I'm not gonna discuss it.

Fact is, joining a conference no longer makes sense for ND.

iowatreat54
08-17-2007, 05:51 AM
Maybe everyone should learn the history of ND and conferences before they go off. ND tried to join the Big 10 many times, but was rebuffed. So they managed to get a schedule that suits their annual needs without the need for a conference, along with great recruiting benefits. Now people want them in a conference. Tough.

If ND joins the Big 10, 3 of their 4 OOC games become USC, Stanford, and Navy. Not much scheduling room. What fun.

Join the Big East or any other major conference? Then a choice has to be made to eliminate USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford, or Navy from the schedule. I'm not really for the whole possibility of rotating them.

The Pac-10 is geographically insane, so I'm not gonna discuss it.

Fact is, joining a conference no longer makes sense for ND.

yes that is why for years the big 10 has tried to get them in conference and they say no...and by years I'm talking atleast 20...and just because ND doesn't want to give up being able to schedule whoever they want and facing the fact that they might not be able to play Navy, Army, Coast Guard, etc. every year doesn't mean that "it no longer makes sense for ND"...I agree that being an Independent at this point is great for ND, but for everyother Independent being in a conference would be more beneficial...ND fans just need to quit with the idea that "Oh, we have tried to be a part of conferences but no one wanted us so now we've done good as an independent and everyone wants us but too bad cuz we can't change because it will be too much work to not be able to do whatever the hell we want" motto...it's really old

CC
08-17-2007, 10:08 AM
Maybe everyone should learn the history of ND and conferences before they go off. ND tried to join the Big 10 many times, but was rebuffed. So they managed to get a schedule that suits their annual needs without the need for a conference, along with great recruiting benefits. Now people want them in a conference. Tough.

If ND joins the Big 10, 3 of their 4 OOC games become USC, Stanford, and Navy. Not much scheduling room. What fun.

Join the Big East or any other major conference? Then a choice has to be made to eliminate USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford, or Navy from the schedule. I'm not really for the whole possibility of rotating them.

The Pac-10 is geographically insane, so I'm not gonna discuss it.

Fact is, joining a conference no longer makes sense for ND.

Yea, then how would ND pack in powerhouses Army, Air Force, UNC, and Duke to round out their schedule?

JayP
08-17-2007, 05:28 PM
Yea, then how would ND pack in powerhouses Army, Air Force, UNC, and Duke to round out their schedule?

If ND was in the Big 10, then they'd have Northwestern, IU, & Illinois to beat on, along with whatever other Big 10 team was down and out that year....just like OSU and Michigan do.

Big East? Syracuse, UConn, & Pitt.

ACC? Duke, UNC, & NC State.

Big 12? Iowa St., Baylor,& Colorado.

SEC? Vandy, Ole Miss, & Mississippi State.

Face facts...the same "pansies" from BCS conferences are being whipped by someone else annually. If they can do it, why can't ND?

BTW, didn't AF give Tennessee the scare of a lifetime at Tennessee last year? Doesn't sound like a pushover team to me.

Sniper
08-17-2007, 05:40 PM
BTW, didn't AF give Tennessee the scare of a lifetime at Tennessee last year? Doesn't sound like a pushover team to me.

Keep trying to convince yourself of that. ND beat them by 22 and ND sucked last year. Yeah, they're not a pushover ;)

neko4
08-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Keep trying to convince yourself of that. ND beat them by 22 and ND sucked last year. Yeah, they're not a pushover ;)

Well lets look at Michigans 2006 Sched...
Vanderbilt
Cen Michigan
notre dame
wisconsin
minnesota
mich st
penn st
iowa
northwestern
Ball St
indiana
tOSU

not too much tougher than ND's

VY10
08-17-2007, 06:00 PM
ND should be punished for not being in a conference. They aren't just for the money. They could still play OOC USC and play their Big 10 schedule.

Anyways I guess it is irrelevant. Notre Dame hasn't won a bowl game since like 1993. Jesus that was a long time ago for a prestigious program.

neko4
08-17-2007, 06:04 PM
ND should be punished for not being in a conference. They aren't just for the money. They could still play OOC USC and play their Big 10 schedule.

Anyways I guess it is irrelevant. Notre Dame hasn't won a bowl game since like 1993. Jesus that was a long time ago for a prestigious program.

somethin tells me they'll be in a small bowl this year and win

Mr. Stiller
08-17-2007, 06:59 PM
Well lets look at Michigans 2006 Sched...
Vanderbilt
Cen Michigan
notre dame
wisconsin
minnesota
mich st
penn st
iowa
northwestern
Ball St
indiana
tOSU

not too much tougher than ND's

I might go as far to say that ND was equally tough..

Michigan, GT, PSU, MSU, Purdue, Stanford, UCLA, USC, LSU..

UNC, AF, Army, Navy, seemed like their only pushovers.

ironman4579
08-17-2007, 07:19 PM
Honestly, I feel that until ND joins a conference, there will never be a playoff in college football. ND will continue to be against a playoff as long as they're an indie, because once a playoff is instituted, be a 4 team or 8 team or whatever, ND will no longer be able to slide into BCS games as long as they're ranked in the top 100 in the nation(sarcasm, for those of you who take everything literally and you ND jobbers. I realize they only have to be in the top 70, come on)

That leads into the money issue. The would first lose the money that they reap from being mediocre but playing in BCS games. They would also most likely lose their exclusive TV contract that the reap the benifits of alone. Even if the contract wasn't outright gone, they'd have to share at least a portion of that with the conference. As it stands now, they keep basically everything to the themselves. No, I think it will be a long time before we see ND in a conference, and almost as long until we see a playoff.

Sniper
08-17-2007, 09:29 PM
Well lets look at Michigans 2006 Sched...
Vanderbilt
Cen Michigan
notre dame
wisconsin
minnesota
mich st
penn st
iowa
northwestern
Ball St
indiana
tOSU

not too much tougher than ND's

I didn't compare the difficulty did I? Jay was trying to claim Air Force isn't a pushover. I've always said those games weren't any good. At least I don't try to pass off Air Force as a good team

neko4
08-18-2007, 04:59 PM
I might go as far to say that ND was equally tough..

Michigan, GT, PSU, MSU, Purdue, Stanford, UCLA, USC, LSU..

UNC, AF, Army, Navy, seemed like their only pushovers.

Navy isnt a pushover, aside from that UNC AF and Army are, but Nvy went 8-5 and almost beat BC in a bowl as i remeber
Stanford is more of a pushover than UNC,AF,or Army tho

JayP
08-18-2007, 09:46 PM
Keep trying to convince yourself of that. ND beat them by 22 and ND sucked last year. Yeah, they're not a pushover ;)

Right. I'd say AF is as good as Vandy....probably better, considering that AF managed to give Tennessee a game in knoxville and Vandy got drilled by the Vols at home.

And sure ND sucked. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Sniper
08-18-2007, 09:58 PM
Right. I'd say AF is as good as Vandy....probably better, considering that AF managed to give Tennessee a game in knoxville and Vandy got drilled by the Vols at home.

And sure ND sucked. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

47-21 tells me they sucked. This whole "Well Team A Barely Beat Team B while Team A destroyed Team C" thing doesn't fly, and you know damn well. ND played 3 good/great teams last year and got BOMBED by all of them.

iowatreat54
08-18-2007, 09:58 PM
Right. I'd say AF is as good as Vandy....probably better, considering that AF managed to give Tennessee a game in knoxville and Vandy got drilled by the Vols at home.

And sure ND sucked. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

ND did suck, they just got into a (undeserving) bowl and got trounced like usual...and before you say it, yes Iowa sucked more, so come up with a better comeback

NDfootball
08-20-2007, 11:51 AM
I don't understand how ND not being in a conference correlates to there being no playoff anytime soon.

If there was a 8 team playoff, the 6 BCS conference champions and 2 wild cards would probably get bids. Now imagine Miami, Texas, Michigan, UCLA, and Tennessee, all with 10+ wins but finishing 2nd in their conference, throw in an undefeated non-BCS team, and you have 6 worthy teams for two spots. There would be a ton of controversy, and it would be worse than it is now because more would be on the line.

If there's a 16 team playoff, which logistically I don't think could work, you probably have to think about adding the non-BCS conferences into the fold. Even if you don't, the same problems would occur with top non-BCS teams and a 3rd or 4th place BCS team.

Notre Dame being independent has almost nothing to do with there not being a D1-A playoff. I would say most of the big schools (including ND) would not want to give up either one more game on the schedule or a conference championship game to squeeze in a playoff. Realistically only about 15 or so teams have a legit shot every year, so the rest of the division would get screwed out of a ton of revenue

Axl Rose
08-21-2007, 12:01 AM
47-21 tells me they sucked. This whole "Well Team A Barely Beat Team B while Team A destroyed Team C" thing doesn't fly, and you know damn well. ND played 3 good/great teams last year and got BOMBED by all of them.

Yeah Michigan's got an impressive 1 game winning steak against ND, then again I wouldn't bet against it being snapped this year. Michigan and coach droopy dog(AKA Carr) have a knack for sucking every game they are expected to win.

Sniper
08-21-2007, 12:08 AM
Yeah Michigan's got an impressive 1 game winning steak against ND, then again I wouldn't bet against it being snapped this year. Michigan and coach droopy dog(AKA Carr) have a knack for sucking every game they are expected to win.

Hey look I think Manningham just scored again. Are you really in a position to be making fun of a coach's physical attributes when Charlie Weis is your team's coach? Come on. Dude you can't possibly talk **** when you lose by 26 at home and you have a Heisman contender at QB. You just can't. I'm pretty sure Michigan went 10-1 in games they were favored in last year, so there goes another argument. So you are expecting Michigan to beat ND again this year judging by your sentence. So how many points will it be by this year?

Axl Rose
08-21-2007, 12:19 AM
Hey look I think Manningham just scored again. Are you really in a position to be making fun of a coach's physical attributes when Charlie Weis is your team's coach? Come on. Dude you can't possibly talk **** when you lose by 26 at home and you have a Heisman contender at QB. You just can't. I'm pretty sure Michigan went 10-1 in games they were favored in last year, so there goes another argument. So you are expecting Michigan to beat ND again this year judging by your sentence. So how many points will it be by this year?

Yep, Michigan beat ND a year ago, and ND beat Michigan 2 years ago? It really has no baring on the future, and IMO ND's future looks more bright while Michigan's is looking dimmer. But here it is 2007, all of Michigan's best players are seniors and most their rivals are having a rebuilding year, this is Michigan's opportunity to strike. But IMO they'll falter some where and be a disappointment again. I never said I think Michigan will beat ND, I said they are favored.

BTW I'd rather be fat then have a face that looks like a scrotum ala coach Carr.

Sniper
08-21-2007, 12:23 AM
Yep, Michigan beat ND a year ago, and ND beat Michigan 2 years ago? It really has no baring on the future, and IMO ND's future looks more bright while Michigan's is looking dimmer. But here it is 2007, all of Michigan's best players are seniors and most their rivals are having a rebuilding year, this is Michigan's opportunity to strike. But IMO they'll falter some where and be a disappointment again. I never said I think Michigan will beat ND, I said they are favored.

BTW I'd rather be fat then have a face that looks like a scrotum ala coach Carr.

More bright? Brighter would be the word there Webster. Shocking that you, the biggest ND homer on this board, would predict Michigan to falter. Absolutely stunning. I wasn't aware Michigan's future was looking dimmer. Perhaps you can tell me where you found this information.

You'd rather be 918 pounds, probably end up with diabetes, have yourself be the mockery of college football fans all over the country, **** up on bypass surgery and waddle like a seal than have Carr's face ? I call ********.

Axl Rose
08-21-2007, 12:37 AM
More bright? Brighter would be the word there Webster. Shocking that you, the biggest ND homer on this board, would predict Michigan to falter. Absolutely stunning. I wasn't aware Michigan's future was looking dimmer. Perhaps you can tell me where you found this information.

You'd rather be 918 pounds, probably end up with diabetes, have yourself be the mockery of college football fans all over the country, **** up on bypass surgery and waddle like a seal than have Carr's face ? I call ********.

Easily, just look at all the recruiting battles that Michigan has been losing lately. Michigan is getting hammered, and its gonna bite them sooner or later. Also I Carr is a mediocre coach IMO.

You can always lose weight, but a mug like that is like a curse. Who wants to have a face that looks like a ball sac.

Sniper
08-21-2007, 12:55 AM
Easily, just look at all the recruiting battles that Michigan has been losing lately. Michigan is getting hammered, and its gonna bite them sooner or later. Also I Carr is a mediocre coach IMO.

You can always lose weight, but a mug like that is like a curse. Who wants to have a face that looks like a ball sac.

Carr's got more national titles than Jabba doesn't he? And don't try the SB argument, this is college football, not pro. At least Carr has beat some teams he's not supposed to. Jabba loses to them by 30. And as far as "hammered" in recruiting, don't we still have around the 10th best class in the country? I prefer the on-field product (you know, where it matters and ND lost by 26) than the off-field stuff. So congrats on having the #1 class 8 months before NSD, that's quite an accomplishment. Let me know when your uber recruits actually do something productive. But I'm tired of every thread turning into Michigan vs. ND and we both use the same arguments, so I'm dropping this.

Axl Rose
08-21-2007, 01:37 AM
Carr's got more national titles than Jabba doesn't he? And don't try the SB argument, this is college football, not pro. At least Carr has beat some teams he's not supposed to. Jabba loses to them by 30. And as far as "hammered" in recruiting, don't we still have around the 10th best class in the country? I prefer the on-field product (you know, where it matters and ND lost by 26) than the off-field stuff. So congrats on having the #1 class 8 months before NSD, that's quite an accomplishment. Let me know when your uber recruits actually do something productive. But I'm tired of every thread turning into Michigan vs. ND and we both use the same arguments, so I'm dropping this.

Coach nut sac face has been coaching at Michigan for 12 years, Charlie's been coaching at ND for 2. So how is your argument supposed to prove anything? Saying Charlie hasn't beaten any teams he wasn't supposed is funny since ND was predicted to start off 1-7 in the 2005 season, didn't really go as planned according to those so called experts. Fact remainsMichigan is left settling for their 2nd and 3rd recruiting targets cause they keep losing recruiting battles all over the place. You prefer on the field stuff? Michigan's been 2 and 3 against ND since 2000, when is the amazing on field dominance you've been talking about gonna kick in.

DWilliams2IndyColts
08-21-2007, 01:50 AM
Carr won an NC early in his career. Two Words. Sam McGuffie. I bet you wanted him untill he went Blue.

DWilliams2IndyColts
08-21-2007, 01:57 AM
And if Notre Dame isn't in a conference nontheless a BCS conference shouldn't they automatically be out of contention for BCS Bowl if they lose a game?

Axl Rose
08-21-2007, 02:32 PM
Carr won an NC early in his career. Two Words. Sam McGuffie. I bet you wanted him untill he went Blue.

Jamoris Slaughter, Kyle Rudolph, Dan McCarthy, Ethan Johnson, Omar Hunter, John Goodman, Darius Fleming, Steven Filer, Dayne Crist, Lane Clelland, Braxton Cave, and Robert Blanton. All guys Michigan recruited hard that have verballed to ND. McGuffie is a good player but one person won't make or break our class.

JayP
08-21-2007, 06:26 PM
Carr's got more national titles than Jabba doesn't he? And don't try the SB argument, this is college football, not pro. At least Carr has beat some teams he's not supposed to. Jabba loses to them by 30. And as far as "hammered" in recruiting, don't we still have around the 10th best class in the country? I prefer the on-field product (you know, where it matters and ND lost by 26) than the off-field stuff. So congrats on having the #1 class 8 months before NSD, that's quite an accomplishment. Let me know when your uber recruits actually do something productive. But I'm tired of every thread turning into Michigan vs. ND and we both use the same arguments, so I'm dropping this.

Umm...if you haven't noticed, you're the one who makes every thread ND vs. UM. You make a veiled jab at ND, and fans respond.

If you don't want it to happen, chill with the veiled comments. But I figure that'll happen about the same time Reggie Bush admits that someone else paid for that Impala SS he was rollin' around in during his SC days.

Sniper
08-21-2007, 08:04 PM
Umm...if you haven't noticed, you're the one who makes every thread ND vs. UM. You make a veiled jab at ND, and fans respond.

If you don't want it to happen, chill with the veiled comments. But I figure that'll happen about the same time Reggie Bush admits that someone else paid for that Impala SS he was rollin' around in during his SC days.

MMMMMMkay buddy. Whatever you say It's probably time for ND to come up with new wisecracks for USC too. The paid players thing is old and overused.