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Bearsfan123
08-18-2007, 11:17 AM
QB: Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Rex Grossman
RB:Chester Taylor, Cedric Benson, Kevin Jones
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Roy Williams, Donald Driver, Bernard Berrian, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson
TE:Desmond Clark, Greg Olsen- I dont know about any of the other TEs.
LT:Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C:Olin Kreutz
RG:Jason Spitz
RT:Fred Miller

DE:Aaron Kampman, Mark Anderson
DT:Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Cory Redding
DT:Tommie Harris, Shaun Rogers
DE:Adewale Ogunleye,

WLB: Lance Briggs, AJ Hawk, Ernie Sims
MLB: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett
SLB: Leber, Hillenmeyer

CB: Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Charles Tillman
CB:Antoine Winfield, Nathan Vasher
NCB: Ricky Manning Jr.

SS: Daryn Sharper, Daniel Bullocks
FS: Mike Brown, Nick Collins


yeah i think I did OK not great but at some of the positions i just dont know where the guys play on other teams. (and stupid NFL.com has blank depth charts...)

princefielder28
08-18-2007, 11:23 AM
get rid of Johnny Jolly and KGB as far as Packers go and Daryn Colledge is the Packers LG with Spitz on the right side

BuckNaked
08-18-2007, 11:27 AM
QB: Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Rex Grossman
RB:Chester Taylor, Cedric Benson- These are the only two who have played in the NFL.
WR: Roy Williams, Donald Driver, Bernard Berrian, Calvin Johnson
TE:Desmond Clark, Greg Olsen- I dont know about any of the other TEs.
LT:Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C:Olin Kreutz
RG:Daryn Colledge- I think hes the rg but it might be Jason Spitz either way.
RT:Fred Miller

DE:Aaron Kampman, Mark Anderson
DT:Kevin Williams, Cory Redding, Johnny Jolly
DT:Tommie Harris, Shaun Rogers
DE:Adewale Ogunleye, KGB

WLB: Lance Briggs, AJ Hawk, Ernie Sims
MLB: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett
SLB:I dunno. I dont know which lbers start here. (in this d they dont get alot of tackles anyway)

CB: Al Harris, Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
CB:Nathan Vasher
NCB: Ricky Manning Jr.

SS:Daniel Bullocks,
FS: Mike Brown, Nick Collins


yeah i think I did OK not great but at some of the positions i just dont know where the guys play on other teams. (and stupid NFL.com has blank depth charts...)

How can you put Greg Olsen and not put Adrian Peterson. You do have both of the Bears TE's there. You forgot fullback which would be Tony Richardson. Are you ******** me? Cory redding and Johnny Jolly over Pat Williams. You seem to forget that Darren Sharper is better than any of the safeties in the division. Well, that's as far as the Vikings go. I'm sure the other teams can pick apart all of the problems as well.

Hines
08-18-2007, 11:41 AM
QB: Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Rex Grossman
RB:Chester Taylor, Cedric Benson- These are the only two who have played in the NFL.
WR: Roy Williams, Donald Driver, Bernard Berrian, Calvin Johnson
TE:Desmond Clark, Greg Olsen- I dont know about any of the other TEs.
LT:Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C:Olin Kreutz
RG:Daryn Colledge- I think hes the rg but it might be Jason Spitz either way.
RT:Fred Miller

DE:Aaron Kampman, Mark Anderson
DT:Kevin Williams, Cory Redding, Johnny Jolly
DT:Tommie Harris, Shaun Rogers
DE:Adewale Ogunleye, KGB

WLB: Lance Briggs, AJ Hawk, Ernie Sims
MLB: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett
SLB:I dunno. I dont know which lbers start here. (in this d they dont get alot of tackles anyway)

CB: Al Harris, Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
CB:Nathan Vasher
NCB: Ricky Manning Jr.

SS:Daniel Bullocks,
FS: Mike Brown, Nick Collins


yeah i think I did OK not great but at some of the positions i just dont know where the guys play on other teams. (and stupid NFL.com has blank depth charts...)


tillman and winfield are both better then vasher...sharper is better then bullocks...i believe hawk is better then briggs...even though hes overrated now,farve is better then kitna

BrownsTown
08-18-2007, 12:24 PM
RB should be Taylor and Peterson.

DHVF
08-18-2007, 12:42 PM
Leber and Hillenmeyer should be the strong side linebackers.

iowatreat54
08-18-2007, 12:42 PM
RB should be Taylor and Peterson.

No, it shouldn't. Taylor and Benson are top 2. The only reason he put Clark and Olsen on there is because there are no other TEs in the division (that are even close). Peterson at least has some competition at HB...

Hines
08-18-2007, 12:46 PM
chad greenway should be on thsi list

Dam8610
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
Shaun Rogers needs to be starting at NT, and the NFC North would have the most amazing UT rotation ever in Harris and Williams, not to mention Cory Redding as 3rd string.

BrownsTown
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
No, it shouldn't. Taylor and Benson are top 2. The only reason he put Clark and Olsen on there is because there are no other TEs in the division (that are even close). Peterson at least has some competition at HB...

Benson has done almost nothing in his time in the league, just because he's played doesn't mean he's good. If you want to go by experience, hell Vernand Morency could challenge Benson.

DHVF
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
No, it shouldn't. Taylor and Benson are top 2. The only reason he put Clark and Olsen on there is because there are no other TEs in the division (that are even close). Peterson at least has some competition at HB...
Honestly, Benson has really proven little more than Peterson and Peterson is well recognized as a superior talent, therefore it is very conceivable to put both Taylor and Peterson as the NFC North's top two backs.

iowatreat54
08-18-2007, 01:10 PM
Honestly, Benson has really proven little more than Peterson and Peterson is well recognized as a superior talent, therefore it is very conceivable to put both Taylor and Peterson as the NFC North's top two backs.

I agree that Peterson is generally considered the superior talent, but he also hasn't played a down...Benson was a huge talent coming into the league, yet wasn't considered a top back...and by that logic, shouldn't ADAP be considered top 5 in the league then since many consider him to be a top back for many years to come? why sell him short and only put him as the top back in the NFC North? My point is, he hasn't proven anything, even Benson has a little experience and with minimal carries has averaged 4+ yards per carry, which is very good...I just can't see putting a rookie ahead of someone who A. has experience B. plays in an offensive system of run first like the Bears...and as I said, the only reason Olsen is on there is because there is no other TE competition, so it is more justified than putting ADAP on there

jackalope
08-18-2007, 01:23 PM
Johnny Jolly and KGB should not be on there for the Packers. KGB isn't going to start, and Jolly may not make the team.

sodar21
08-18-2007, 01:23 PM
I'd put Kevin Jones in there over Benson. And Charles Woodson should be the CB opposite of Antoine Winfield.

iowatreat54
08-18-2007, 01:27 PM
I'd put Kevin Jones in there over Benson. And Charles Woodson should be the CB opposite of Antoine Winfield.

that I can actually agree with because when healthy, Jones is prolly the top back in the North...and Tillman and Vasher are both better CBs for the past 3 years and will be for the next 5, so I think we are basing it off the upcoming season/last season not all-time, or am I wrong?

Twiddler
08-18-2007, 01:40 PM
Johnny Jolly and KGB should not be on there for the Packers. KGB isn't going to start, and Jolly may not make the team.

Yeah, that part kind of confused me. I didn't really think we had any DT's worthy of this considering we are in a division that has Tommie Harris, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Cory Redding, and Shaun Rogers. And while I don't think he deserves to be on the list, Cullen Jenkins is more deserving of this than KGB is. He really hasn't produced lately and if he does this year than it will be as a specialty rusher.

bearfan
08-18-2007, 02:07 PM
thats the most homerific list I have ever seen.

Bearsfan123
08-18-2007, 03:16 PM
thats the most homerific list I have ever seen.

yeah sorry i couldnt memorize everyone elses players and stats *sarcasm*

For TE- To my knowledge Clark is the best current TE, and Olsen is the only one who appears to be near his level.

RB: AP is a special talent. But i havent seen him run in the NFL yet. I was trying to stay away from Rookies but TE was an exception because there is literally no one else in the North that seems to have his talent. Kevin Jones I would have put on as the third back, for the sole reason of he cant seem to stay healthy and it seems like when he gets going (against the Bears anyway) he always seems to fumble.

FB: Yeah sorry brain cramp there. Ill add it and Tony Richardson to it.

G: Ill fix it with the right name.

Dl: yeah i knew there would be problems here. There are an enormous amount of talented DTs and DEs in the North. So when I went to NFL.com (which sucks by the way) i had to go through the rosters, it was hard because you cant even sort by position anymore. So i saw a couple names I had heard before and heard good things about and added it to what I already knew. Honestly my most homerific move was not putting Pat Williams on here. I just dont like him. But Ill throw him on there. Shaun Rogers is SUPREMELY talented, think Tommie Harris +1 imo but hes never motivated so hes not being moved up.

S: I knew there was a guy I had forgotten. Sharper will be the starter with Bullocks backing him up.

CB: This is one I dont have an opinion on. So ppl tell me what you think so I can fix it. Put in your replies "I vote for _______ to start at Cornerback across from Harris" and after a couple votes go one way, Ill change it.

LB: AJ Hawk is an incredible talent, but Briggs is considered to be one of the best young OLBs in the game. Hes a two time pro-bowl talent. While I think in the long run Hawk will be better, right now i went with experience.

Twiddler
08-18-2007, 04:42 PM
yeah sorry i couldnt memorize everyone elses players and stats *sarcasm*

You don't necessarily have to memorize stats though. You just need to pay attention to whats going on to your fellow division rivals and watch them play a little bit. That's all it takes to be able to develop knowledge about a division.

neko4
08-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Cullen Jenkins should have the 4th DE spot IMO
and Colledge may play LG, but he is way better than SPitz at either side

TimD
08-18-2007, 10:55 PM
you listed too many players... theres only really 4 players to choose from for most of the positions yet you put 3 up there... its supposed to be 1qb, 2rbs, 1fb, 2wrs, 1te, 2ots, 2ogs, 1c, 2des, 2dts, 3lbs, 2cbs, 1ss, 1fs, 1k, 1p, 1ret.... in my opinion

Boston
08-18-2007, 11:09 PM
Just put Brett at QB and leave it at that. That's embarassing.

Michigan
08-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Here's a quick one I just made:

QB: Jon Kitna
RB: Chester Taylor
FB: Tony Richardson
TE: Desmond Clark
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
OT: Bryant McKinnie
OG: Steve Hutchinson
OC: Olin Kruetz
OG: Ed Mulitalo
OT: Chad Clifton

DE: Adawale Ogunleye
DT: Tommie Harris
DT: Kevin Williams
DE: Alex Brown
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: Brian Urlacher
LB: Ernie Sims
CB: Al Harris
CB: Charles Tillman
S: Nick Collins
S: Darren Sharper

neko4
08-18-2007, 11:24 PM
Here's a quick one I just made:

QB: Jon Kitna Favre and Kitna probably interchangable here
RB: Chester Taylor
FB: Tony Richardson
TE: Desmond Clark
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
OT: Bryant McKinnie
OG: Steve Hutchinson
OC: Olin Kruetz
OG: Ed MulitaloI think there's some better choices here
OT: Chad Clifton

DE: Adawale Ogunleye
DT: Tommie Harris
DT: Kevin Williams
DE: Alex Brown
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: Brian Urlacher
LB: Ernie SimsAJ>Ernie
CB: Al Harris
CB: Charles Tillman
S: Nick CollinsHasnt had his breakout year yet, so i guess this is a projection
S: Darren Sharper

responses in bold

Boston
08-18-2007, 11:50 PM
Favre's better than Kitna.

Crazy_Chris
08-18-2007, 11:54 PM
For TE- To my knowledge Clark is the best current TE, and Olsen is the only one who appears to be near his level.

Jimmy Kleinsasser should be the second Tight End while he isnt a huge threat in the passing game Jimmy K is arguably the best Blocking TE in the NFL he's like having another Lineman that alone justifies him over Greg Olsen although olsen should soon be the best TE in the Division.

bearfan
08-18-2007, 11:58 PM
Must Have players for the positions in question:
Favre
Taylor/Kevin Jones (only 2 w/ experience)
Shaun Rogers
Kevin Williams
Tommie Harris
Winefield *sp

Nitschke-Hawk
08-19-2007, 12:06 PM
QB: Brett Favre, Jon Kitna.
RB: Chester Taylor, Kevin Jones
FB: Tony Richardson
TE: Desmond Clark
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
LT: Chad Clifton, Bryant McKinnie
OG: Steve Hutchinson, Daryn Colledge
OC: Olin Kruetz
OG: Ruben Brown
RT: Mark Tauscher

DE: Mark Anderson, Cullen Jenkins
DT: Tommie Harris
DT: Kevin Williams, Pat Williams
DE: Aaron Kampman
LB: Lance Briggs, Ernie Sims
LB: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett
LB: AJ Hawk
CB: Al Harris, Charles Woodson
CB: Charles Tillman, Antoine Winfield
S: Nick Collins
S: Mike Brown, Darren Sharper

P-L
08-19-2007, 01:22 PM
Favre's better than Kitna.

Packers fans are still stuck in the late 90's. Favre and Kitna are nearly identical players. Look at the stats last year and Kitna threw for more yards, had a higher yards per attempt, a better QB rating, a much higher completion percentage, more TD, and they had nearly an identical TD:INT ratio (Favre with a very slight edge) despite Favre throwing the ball more and getting sacked a third of the time. I know stats aren't everything, but if Favre is better, it's by such a small margin that it isn't worth arguing about.

keylime_5
08-19-2007, 01:42 PM
Stats are not an indication of who's better. If the game's on the line with a minute left, you do not want Kitna as your QB, you want Favre. Favre is the best QB in that division still.

umphrey
08-19-2007, 02:44 PM
As a Packer fan I'll be the first to admit Favre has declined considerably, but he is still hands down better than Kitna.

Moses
08-19-2007, 03:44 PM
Packers fans are still stuck in the late 90's. Favre and Kitna are nearly identical players. Look at the stats last year and Kitna threw for more yards, had a higher yards per attempt, a better QB rating, a much higher completion percentage, more TD, and they had nearly an identical TD:INT ratio (Favre with a very slight edge) despite Favre throwing the ball more and getting sacked a third of the time. I know stats aren't everything, but if Favre is better, it's by such a small margin that it isn't worth arguing about.

Why even bother comparing the stats of two QBs on different teams and different systems? Pointless.

Favre is still a clearcut better quarterback than Kitna. If you watched both play last season, that would be abundantly clear.

TitleTown088
08-19-2007, 04:02 PM
chad greenway should be on thsi list
Over who? Briggs? Hawk? Simms? Greenway hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

On my all NFC north team I want zero Lions aside from Roy. Certainly not Kitna.

Upon thinking about this I have come to the conclusion that the NFC north has the worst TEs of any division, but perhaps the best linebackers.

GB12
08-19-2007, 06:49 PM
QB: Favre
RB: Peterson, Benson
FB: Richardson
TE: Clark
WR: Williams
WR: Driver
LT: McKinnie
LG: Hutchinson
C: Kruetz
RG: Ruben Brown
RT: Mark Tauscher

DE: Aaron Kampman
DT: Kevin Williams
DT: Tommie Harris
DE: Ogunleye
OLB: Hawk
MLB: Urlacher
OLB: Briggs
CB: Al Harris
CB: Antoine Winfield
S: Nick Collins
S: Darren Sharper

Vikes99ej
08-19-2007, 07:34 PM
Good list, 123. I don't disagree with any of those.

Shiver
08-19-2007, 08:09 PM
Over who? Briggs? Hawk? Simms? Greenway hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

On my all NFC north team I want zero Lions aside from Roy. Certainly not Kitna.

Upon thinking about this I have come to the conclusion that the NFC north has the worst TEs of any division, but perhaps the best linebackers.

As well as QB.

MNRunLeft
08-19-2007, 09:05 PM
I don't understand how AD can be left off the list becuase he's never played a down, but other players like Olsen make it? You need to keep the criteria for a list consistant, if that be proven NFL accomplishments, overall talent or some kind of middle ground. This list doesn't seem to keep consistant.

TitleTown088
08-19-2007, 11:51 PM
As well as QB.

No, Joey Harrington isn't in the Norris anymore...

Vikes99ej
08-19-2007, 11:53 PM
I don't like putting rookies on lists like this, whether it's Greg Olsen or Adrian Peterson.

neko4
08-20-2007, 12:28 AM
Based on careers
QB-Favre GB
HB-Taylor MIN
FB-Richardson MIN
WR-Driver GB
WR-Williams DET
TE-Bubba GB
OT-Clifton GB
OT-McKinnie MIN
OG-Hutch MIN
OG-Brown CHI
C-Kruetz CHI

DE-Kampman GB
DE-Ogunleye CHI
DT-Fat Pat MIN
DT-Harris CHI
LB-Barnett GB
LB-Urlacher CHI
LB-Briggs CHI
CB-Tillman CHI
CB-Woodson GB
S-Sharper MIN
S-Archuleta CHI

Starters:
8 CHI
7 GB
6 MIN
1 DET

GB12
08-20-2007, 12:46 AM
Based on careers
QB-Favre GB-Of course
HB-Taylor MIN-Wow that's sad. The best RB in the division has 10 career TDs.
FB-Richardson MIN-Yeah
WR-Driver GB-Yeah
WR-Williams DET-For their career to this date it should be Muhammad
TE-Bubba GB-Yeah
OT-Clifton GB-I'd say Tauscher
OT-McKinnie MIN-Sure
OG-Hutch MIN-Yeah
OG-Brown CHI-sure
C-Kruetz CHI-Yeah

DE-Kampman GB-KGB and it's not even close
DE-Ogunleye CHI-second to KGB yeah
DT-Fat Pat MIN-Yeah
DT-Harris CHI-Kevin Williams
LB-Barnett GB-Yeah
LB-Urlacher CHI-Easily
LB-Briggs CHI-Yeah
CB-Tillman CHI-No way. Harris, Woodson, and Winfield have all had better careers.-Winfield
CB-Woodson GB-Sure
S-Sharper MIN-Yeah
S-Archuleta CHI-Yeah


You were off on a few.

TitleTown088
08-20-2007, 12:55 AM
You guys really want McKinnies overpaid ass on your team?

DHVF
08-20-2007, 01:01 AM
You guys really want McKinnies overpaid ass on your team?Considering the recent contracts that were given and the fact that he only looked mildly bad last year due to blocking schemes that didn't befit him as a player, I disagree with the overpaid part and think that yes, he does belong on this team.

PACKmanN
08-20-2007, 03:06 AM
This is mine;

QB: Brett Favre
RB: Adrian Peterson
FB: Tony Richardson
TE: Greg Olsen
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
LT: Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
OC: Olin Kruetz
RG: Damien Wody
RT: Mark Tauscher

RE: Cullen Jenkins
UT: Tommie Harris
NT: Shaun Rogers
LE: Aaron Kampman
ROLB: Lance Briggs
MLB: Brian Urlacher
LOLB: Boss Bailey
CB: Antoine Winfield
CB: Al Harris
FS: Nick Collins
SS: Darren Sharper

Crazy_Chris
08-20-2007, 04:00 AM
Cullen Jenkins over Adewale Ogunleye... You have got to be kidding

P-L
08-20-2007, 10:38 AM
Why even bother comparing the stats of two QBs on different teams and different systems? Pointless.

Favre is still a clearcut better quarterback than Kitna. If you watched both play last season, that would be abundantly clear.
Typical cop out. Instead of providing reasons to back up your opinion you hit me with the "you would've seen that Favre is better if you had watched them both play" response. Nice try, but I'm not buying that crap.

I like how it's "pointless" to compare the stats of players on two different teams. I mean jeez, what's the point of even compiling stats if you can only compare the stats of players on the same team? Maybe we should take away all of Favre's records. I mean, it's pointless to compare all of his completions with players like Dan Marino and John Elway seeing as they played on different teams and in different systems.

Did the system help Kitna? Yeah, it did a bit. But then you need to factor in the fact that the Lions OL was trash. Kitna was sacked THREE times as much as Favre was last year. Kitna likely would've been able to cut down on his mistakes had he not had to worry about being put on his back four times a game.

Kitna also had to do everything himself. He got pretty much nothing from the run game. The Lions had the WORST running game in the entire league averaging a whopping 70 yards per game. The four RB for the Lions combined, last year had 100 yards less than Ahman Green did and averaged 3.6 yards per carry.

The biggest thing people say about Mike Martz's system is that a QB stats are inflated because he passes the ball too much. That is really ironic seeing as how Brett Favre not only threw the ball more than Kitna, but only four QB in NFL history attempted more passes than he did last year. Taking into consideration the difference in running game and the difference in OL, I know that the system did make as drastic as a difference as I think you are suggesting it did.

Favre is one of the top 10 QB in NFL history, but he is only a small fraction of his former self. For this coming season, I would not trade Kitna for Favre straight up.

Moses
08-20-2007, 10:48 AM
Typical cop out. Instead of providing reasons to back up your opinion you hit me with the "you would've seen that Favre is better if you had watched them both play" response. Nice try, but I'm not buying that crap.

I like how it's "pointless" to compare the stats of players on two different teams. I mean jeez, what's the point of even compiling stats if you can only compare the stats of players on the same team? Maybe we should take away all of Favre's records. I mean, it's pointless to compare all of his completions with players like Dan Marino and John Elway seeing as they played on different teams and in different systems.

Did the system help Kitna? Yeah, it did a bit. But then you need to factor in the fact that the Lions OL was trash. Kitna was sacked THREE times as much as Favre was last year. Kitna likely would've been able to cut down on his mistakes had he not had to worry about being put on his back four times a game.

Kitna also had to do everything himself. He got pretty much nothing from the run game. The Lions had the WORST running game in the entire league averaging a whopping 70 yards per game. The four RB for the Lions combined, last year had 100 yards less than Ahman Green did and averaged 3.6 yards per carry.

The biggest thing people say about Mike Martz's system is that a QB stats are inflated because he passes the ball too much. That is really ironic seeing as how Brett Favre not only threw the ball more than Kitna, but only four QB in NFL history attempted more passes than he did last year. Taking into consideration the difference in running game and the difference in OL, I know that the system did make as drastic as a difference as I think you are suggesting it did.

Favre is one of the top 10 QB in NFL history, but he is only a small fraction of his former self. For this coming season, I would not trade Kitna for Favre straight up.

You are in the minority. I don't think you would find a single person who knows anything about football agreeing with Kitna over Favre.

Statistics are overrated, especially on this forum, where people try arguing that Larry Johnson is the best RB in the league, Michael Vick and Vince Young are the worst quarterbacks in the league, and Osi from the Giants is a better DE than Julius Peppers.

In all honesty, I don't even know if Favre has declined much (if at all) from when the Packers lost to the Eagles in the playoffs a few years ago. The team has gotten worse, and it's been well-documented that when Favre has a poor supporting cast, he tries to do too much himself and hurts the team. What exactly has he gotten worse at? He still has a huge arm, good accuracy, makes good reads, and is a gunslinger. Plus, he's actually in better shape now than he has been in years.

P-L
08-20-2007, 11:09 AM
Here is my team, by the way.

HC: Lovie Smith, Bears
OC: Mike Martz, Lions
DC: Bob Sanders, Packers

QB: Jon Kitna, Lions
RB: Chester Taylor, Vikings
FB: Tony Richardson, Vikings
WR: Donald Driver, Packers
WR: Roy Williams, Lions
TE: Desmond Clark, Bears
LT: Bryant McKinnie, Vikings
LG: Steve Hutchinson, Vikings
C: Olin Kruetz, Bears
RG: Ruben Brown, Bears
RT: Mark Tauscher, Packers

DE: Aaron Kampman, Packers
UT: Kevin Williams, Vikings
NT: Shaun Rogers, Lions
DE: Adewale Ogunleye, Bears
SLB: Hunter Hillenmeyer, Bears
MLB: Brian Urlacher, Bears
WLB: Lance Briggs, Bears
CB: Charles Tillman, Bears
SS: Darren Sharper, Vikings
FS: Mike Brown, Bears
CB: Al Harris, Packers

K: Robbie Gould, Bears
P: Nic Harris, Lions
KR: Devin Hester, Bears

BuckNaked
08-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Here is my team, by the way.

HC: Lovie Smith, Bears
OC: Mike Martz, Lions
DC: Bob Sanders, Packers

QB: Jon Kitna, Lions
RB: Chester Taylor, Vikings
FB: Tony Richardson, Vikings
WR: Donald Driver, Packers
WR: Roy Williams, Lions
TE: Desmond Clark, Bears
LT: Bryant McKinnie, Vikings
LG: Steve Hutchinson, Vikings
C: Olin Kruetz, Bears
RG: Ruben Brown, Bears
RT: Mark Tauscher, Packers

DE: Aaron Kampman, Packers
UT: Kevin Williams, Vikings
NT: Shaun Rogers, Lions
DE: Adewale Ogunleye, Bears
SLB: Hunter Hillenmeyer, Bears
MLB: Brian Urlacher, Bears
WLB: Lance Briggs, Bears
CB: Charles Tillman, Bears
SS: Darren Sharper, Vikings
FS: Mike Brown, Bears
CB: Al Harris, Packers

K: Robbie Gould, Bears
P: Nic Harris, Lions
KR: Devin Hester, Bears

I'm going to have to disagree with you about having Tillman over Winfield.

Moses
08-20-2007, 11:39 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you about having Tillman over Winfield.

Definitely. I think it would go something like:

1. Al Harris
2. Antoine Winfield
3. Charles Woodson

Also, 3 best LBs are probably Hawk, Urlacher, and Briggs. I can understand that Hawk plays weak-side though, but he's still better than Hillenmeyer as a SLB.

Also, the safeties in the NFC North are horrendous. Brown and Sharper? Ouch.

DHVF
08-20-2007, 11:43 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you about having Tillman over Winfield.
Honestly, if we're talking about putting a guy on the team that actually plays SLB, I would most definitely take Ben Leber over Hunter Hillenmeyer, so take that for whatever it may be worth.

Vikes99ej
08-20-2007, 02:21 PM
Did KGB even start last year?

Moses
08-20-2007, 02:26 PM
Did KGB even start last year?

Until the last 4 games.

neko4
08-20-2007, 10:36 PM
All-Time NFC North/Central Team(MIN,GB,CHI,DET,TB)
Need some help here if anyone is intrested

QB-Favre/Tarkenton
HB-Payton/Sanders/Hornung
FB-Taylor/????
WR-Moss/Sharpe/????/?????
TE-Chumura/??????

Crazy_Chris
08-20-2007, 11:45 PM
All-Time NFC North/Central Team(MIN,GB,CHI,DET,TB)
Need some help here if anyone is intrested

QB-Favre/Tarkenton
HB-Payton/Sanders/Hornung
FB-Taylor/????
WR-Moss/Sharpe/????/?????
TE-Chumura/??????

Tarkenton>Favre

Cris Carter should Definatly be the top WR

neko4
08-20-2007, 11:50 PM
Tarkenton>Favre

Cris Carter should Definatly be the top WR

tarkenton=Favre
Forgot about Carter

TitleTown088
08-21-2007, 12:21 AM
Tarkenton>Favre

Cris Carter should Definatly be the top WR

How do you figure Tarkenton is better than Favre? Because he played for the Vikings? Or because he was soo stellar in the super bowls?

Also, Don Hutson is the best WR, not Carter, Moss, or Sharp.

Boston
08-21-2007, 12:24 AM
tarkenton=Favre
Forgot about Carter

Favre > Tarkenton

TitleTown088
08-21-2007, 12:28 AM
Favre > Tarkenton

I really don't even think too many viking fans will argue with that either. Just the ones who ate paint chips during their childhood.

Boston
08-21-2007, 12:50 AM
I really don't even think too many viking fans will argue with that either. Just the ones who ate paint chips during their childhood.

You just contradicted yourself.

TitleTown088
08-21-2007, 01:10 AM
You just contradicted yourself.

Yeah, true. But the fact remains, the opinion of a viking fan is about as useful as a rubber crutch to a polio patient.

Apriori
08-21-2007, 01:34 AM
RE: Current teams...
Shaun Rogers>Kevin Williams
Cory Redding is prolly 4th or 3rd DT IMO.
Jeff Backus is being underrated.
Kitna over Favre all day long...Unless the team happens to be playing at Lambeau Field in the snow.

RE: All-Time Team
Herman Moore warrants a mention at WR.
Charlie Sanders, TE, for sure.
Ditka.
Bobby Layne?

Defense...
Derrick Brooks
Night Train Lane
Lem Barney
Robert Porcher?

Boston
08-21-2007, 01:43 AM
Did KGB even start last year?

Half the year. Jenkins < KGB.

Crazy_Chris
08-21-2007, 03:00 AM
Favre > Tarkenton

I really don't even think too many viking fans will argue with that either. Just the ones who ate paint chips during their childhood.

I believe you would be in the minority. But if you two truely believe that than its just not worth arguing. I would hope you show the man the respect he deserves and not just be blinded by green bay homeristic pride.

PACKmanN
08-21-2007, 03:51 AM
All-Time NFC North/Central Team(MIN,GB,CHI,DET,TB)
Need some help here if anyone is intrested

QB-Favre/Tarkenton
HB-Payton/Sanders/Hornung
FB-Taylor/????
WR-Moss/Sharpe/????/?????
TE-Chumura/??????
Mike Ditka, Charlie Sanders, Henderson.

Nitschke-Hawk
08-21-2007, 01:01 PM
Cullen Jenkins over Adewale Ogunleye... You have got to be kidding

You think Ogunleye is elite even on a division level?? This guy shouldn't even be starting on his own team. Mark Anderson AND Alex Brown are better than him. Note to everybody else: Ogunleye is supposed to be known as a top notch pass rusher, until he has even close to 10 sacks again don't consider putting him on any of your best of lists.

Alex Brown is a better athlete, a better all around player than Ogunleye, and Mark Anderson is a better play maker and pass rusher than Ogunleye. The only reason Ogunleye's spot hasn't been taken is because the Bears seem to want Anderson on the weak side. Which is the same position Alex Brown plays. I think they're silly for keeping Ogunleye as a starter. Anderson took more playing time from Ogunleye last year than Brown but they're starting Ogunleye. I think they'll regret it unless he has a monster year. Ogunleye's solid but that's it.


YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST SACK FF REC
2001 MIA 7 3 2 1 0.5 0 0
2002 MIA 16 45 34 11 9.5 3 0
2003 MIA 16 64 45 19 15.0 2 0
2004 CHI 12 37 28 9 5.0 1 0
2005 CHI 15 40 36 4 10.0 1 0
2006 CHI 14 43 28 15 6.5 1 0

After that huge year he got traded to Chicago, got a fat contract and has had 3 slightly above average seasons for a starting player.

Vikes99ej
08-21-2007, 01:56 PM
I believe you would be in the minority. But if you two truely believe that than its just not worth arguing. I would hope you show the man the respect he deserves and not just be blinded by green bay homeristic pride.

Just ignore them, Chris. Packers' fans think Packers players are the best, and Vikings' fans think Vikings players are the best.

Boston
08-21-2007, 02:49 PM
I believe you would be in the minority. But if you two truely believe that than its just not worth arguing. I would hope you show the man the respect he deserves and not just be blinded by green bay homeristic pride.

Are you kidding me? Not only are you being hypocritical here, you're showing blatant stupidity. Any person in there right mind would agree that Favre was better than Tarkenton. But, hey, if you want to bring in homerism, well than...

TitleTown088
08-21-2007, 04:10 PM
I believe you would be in the minority. But if you two truely believe that than its just not worth arguing. I would hope you show the man the respect he deserves and not just be blinded by green bay homeristic pride.

Uhhh... Ok then. Explain to me how in the hell TARKENTON is Better than Favre? It's not GB homerism, it's common sense.

fondoffilm
08-22-2007, 11:16 PM
QB: Brett Favre
RB: Adrian Peterson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Roy Williams, Donald Driver
TE: Dan Campbell
LT: Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C: Olin Kreutz
RG: Roberto Garza
RT: Mark Tauscher

DE: Aaron Kampman, Adewale Ogunleye
DT: Kevin Williams, Tommie Harris
SLB: Ben Leber (tough decision, why not be a homer?)
MLB: Brian Urlacher
WLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
FS: Dwight Smith
SS: Darren Sharper

K: Robbie Gould
P: Brad Maynard

HC: Lovie Smith
OC: Mike Martz
DC: Leslie Frazier

neko4
08-23-2007, 12:39 AM
QB: Brett Favre
RB: Adrian Peterson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Roy Williams, Donald Driver
TE: Dan Campbell
LT: Bryant McKinnie
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C: Olin Kreutz
RG: Roberto Garza
RT: Mark Tauscher

DE: Aaron Kampman, Adewale Ogunleye
DT: Kevin Williams, Tommie Harris
SLB: Ben Leber (tough decision, why not be a homer?)
MLB: Brian Urlacher
WLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
FS: Dwight Smith
SS: Darren Sharper

K: Robbie Gould
P: Brad Maynard

HC: Lovie Smith
OC: Mike Martz
DC: Leslie Frazier

If AD is the top RB, then wouldnt Olsen be at TE?
Also Briggs>Leber
Harris and Winfield in the Secondary

DHVF
08-23-2007, 12:44 AM
If AD is the top RB, then wouldnt Olsen be at TE?
Also Briggs>Leber
Harris and Winfield in the Secondary
I agree with everything but the thing about Briggs and Leber, as Leber plays SLB, where Briggs plays on the weakside...so technically it should be Briggs over Hawk. Saying Leber is the best strongside linebacker in the norris division isn't homeristic at all either, as there is really a lot of support for saying this and the only other name worth bringing up against him is Hillenmeyer.

neko4
08-23-2007, 01:54 AM
I agree with everything but the thing about Briggs and Leber, as Leber plays SLB, where Briggs plays on the weakside...so technically it should be Briggs over Hawk. Saying Leber is the best strongside linebacker in the norris division isn't homeristic at all either, as there is really a lot of support for saying this and the only other name worth bringing up against him is Hillenmeyer.

Thats a problem with doing these things, and people shouldnt get technical about SLB and WLB, just put down the two best OLB's regardless of SLB or WLB. Same with OL. Tauscher is one of the better RT's in the divison, but he isnt the 2nd best "OT" in the division

Vikes99ej
08-23-2007, 02:31 AM
My All-NFC North Team

QB: Brett Favre
RB: Cedric Benson
RB: Chester Taylor
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
TE: Desmond Clark
OL: Bryant McKinnie
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Olin Kreutz
OL: Roberto Garza
OL: Mark Tauscher
K: Robbie Gould

DE: Adewale Ogunlewe
DT: Kevin Williams
DT: Tommie Harris
DE: Aaron Kampman
OLB: Lance Briggs
MLB: Brian Urlacher
OLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Al Harris
CB: Nathan Vasher
FS: Mike Brown?
SS: Darren Sharper
P: Nic Harris

Returner: Hester McFester

I don't put rookies on All-whatever teams before they've played a down in a real game.

PACKmanN
08-23-2007, 03:23 AM
My All-NFC North Team

QB: Brett Favre
RB: Cedric Benson
RB: Chester Taylor
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
TE: Desmond Clark
OL: Bryant McKinnie
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Olin Kreutz
OL: Roberto Garza
OL: Mark Tauscher
K: Robbie Gould

DE: Adewale Ogunlewe
DT: Kevin Williams
DT: Tommie Harris
DE: Aaron Kampman
OLB: Lance Briggs
MLB: Brian Urlacher
OLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Al Harris
CB: Nathan Vasher
FS: Mike Brown?
SS: Darren Sharper
P: Nic Harris

Returner: Hester McFester

I don't put rookies on All-whatever teams before they've played a down in a real game.

Vasher over Winfeild?
Gaza over Woody?

The Legend
08-23-2007, 07:47 AM
QB: Brett Favre, Jon Kitna, Rex Grossman
RB: Chester Taylor, Cedric Benson, Kevin Jones
FB: Tony Richardson, Jason McKie, Casey FitzSimmons

TE: Desmond Clark, Greg Olsen, Jim Kleinsasser
LR: Donald Driver, Roy Williams, Muhsin Muhammad
RR: Bernard Berrian, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings

LT: Bryant McKinnie, Chad Clifton, Jeff Backus
LG: Steve Hutchinson, Edwin Mulitalo, Ruben Brown
OC: Olin Kruetz, Matt Birk, Dominic Raiola
RG: Damien Woody, Roberto Garza, Jason Spitz
RT: Mark Tauscher, Fred Miller, George Foster

LE: Aaron Kampman, Adawale Ogunleye, Dewayne White
UT: Kevin Williams, Tommie Harris, Cory Redding
NT: Pat Williams, Shaun Rogers, Ryan Pickett
RE: Mark Anderson, Cullen Jenkins, Alex Brown

WL: Lance Briggs, Aj Hawk, Ernie Sims
ML: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett, E.J. Henderson
SL: Brady Poppinga, Ben Leber, Boss Bailey

LC: Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman, Charles Woodson
FS: Nick Collins, Mike Brown, Daniel Bullocks
SS: Darren Sharper, Kenoy Kennedy, Adam Archuleta
RC: Al Harris, Nathan Vasher, Cedric Griffin

K: Robbie Gould, Jason Hanson, Ryan Longwell
P: Jon Ryan, Brad Maynard, Chris Kluwe
KR: Devin Hester, Eddie Drummond, Will Blackmon
PR: Devin Hester, Eddie Drummond, Will Blackmon

HC: Lovie Smith, Mike McCarthy, Rod Marinelli
OC: Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Darrell Bevell
DC: Bob Sanders, Leslie Frazier, Joe Barry

Vikes99ej
08-23-2007, 07:50 AM
Vasher over Winfeild?
Gaza over Woody?

I watch Winfield every week. He's very physical, but I always see him covering the slot reciever.

mqtirishfan
08-26-2007, 11:13 PM
QB: Brett Favre, Jon Kitna, Rex Grossman
RB: Chester Taylor, Cedric Benson, Kevin Jones
FB: Tony Richardson, Jason McKie, Casey FitzSimmons

TE: Desmond Clark, Greg Olsen, Jim Kleinsasser
LR: Donald Driver, Roy Williams, Muhsin Muhammad
RR: Bernard Berrian, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings

LT: Bryant McKinnie, Chad Clifton, Jeff Backus
LG: Steve Hutchinson, Edwin Mulitalo, Ruben Brown
OC: Olin Kruetz, Matt Birk, Dominic Raiola
RG: Damien Woody, Roberto Garza, Jason Spitz
RT: Mark Tauscher, Fred Miller, George Foster

LE: Aaron Kampman, Adawale Ogunleye, Dewayne White
UT: Kevin Williams, Tommie Harris, Cory Redding
NT: Pat Williams, Shaun Rogers, Ryan Pickett
RE: Mark Anderson, Cullen Jenkins, Alex Brown

WL: Lance Briggs, Aj Hawk, Ernie Sims
ML: Brian Urlacher, Nick Barnett, E.J. Henderson
SL: Brady Poppinga, Ben Leber, Boss Bailey

LC: Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman, Charles Woodson
FS: Nick Collins, Mike Brown, Daniel Bullocks
SS: Darren Sharper, Kenoy Kennedy, Adam Archuleta
RC: Al Harris, Nathan Vasher, Cedric Griffin

K: Robbie Gould, Jason Hanson, Ryan Longwell
P: Jon Ryan, Brad Maynard, Chris Kluwe
KR: Devin Hester, Eddie Drummond, Will Blackmon
PR: Devin Hester, Eddie Drummond, Will Blackmon

HC: Lovie Smith, Mike McCarthy, Rod Marinelli
OC: Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Darrell Bevell
DC: Bob Sanders, Leslie Frazier, Joe Barry


Hell, I could make a team like this with every starter in the division, too.

mqtirishfan
08-26-2007, 11:15 PM
My All-NFC North Team

QB: Brett Favre
RB: Cedric Benson
RB: Chester Taylor
WR: Roy Williams
WR: Donald Driver
TE: Desmond Clark
OL: Bryant McKinnie
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Olin Kreutz
OL: Roberto Garza
OL: Mark Tauscher
K: Robbie Gould

DE: Adewale Ogunlewe
DT: Kevin Williams
DT: Tommie Harris
DE: Aaron Kampman
OLB: Lance Briggs
MLB: Brian Urlacher
OLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Al Harris
CB: Nathan Vasher
FS: Mike Brown?
SS: Darren Sharper
P: Nic Harris

Returner: Hester McFester

I don't put rookies on All-whatever teams before they've played a down in a real game.


Throwing out SLB/WLB differences, I agree with this list completely.

As far as the NFC North goes, we probably have the worst group of offensive skill players, worst safeties, worst DEs, worst guards and worst TEs (if you don't count TEs as skill players).

awfullyquiet
08-27-2007, 05:22 AM
Throwing out SLB/WLB differences, I agree with this list completely.

As far as the NFC North goes, we probably have the worst group of offensive skill players, worst safeties, worst DEs, worst guards and worst TEs (if you don't count TEs as skill players).

worst DE's?

really? nahhh. for a 4-3 defense. Green Bay and Chicago especially, are loaded.

sure, there's little named talent (with the exception of maybe ogunleye and kgb, kampmann is getting there...) and there's no freenys or peppers or strahans... but, i would be scared as hell of mark anderson...

neko4
08-27-2007, 08:03 AM
Kampman is getting there? yeah if leading all DE's in sacks is getting there than okay.
GB's situation is similar to CHI's at DE.
GB has two solid starting DE's (Kampman/Jenkins) and so does CHI (Ogunleye/Brown) and both have a situational pass rusher (KGB/Anderson)

Vikes99ej
08-27-2007, 09:24 AM
Kampman is getting there? yeah if leading all DE's in sacks is getting there than okay.
GB's situation is similar to CHI's at DE.
GB has two solid starting DE's (Kampman/Jenkins) and so does CHI (Ogunleye/Brown) and both have a situational pass rusher (KGB/Anderson)

I hate to say it, but right now Mark Anderson looks like a 1000x better pass rusher than KGB. And I'd still take Alex Brown over Cullen.

neko4
08-27-2007, 10:35 AM
I hate to say it, but right now Mark Anderson looks like a 1000x better pass rusher than KGB. And I'd still take Alex Brown over Cullen.

I agree with both, but Kampman is clearly the best of all of them. KGB has been injured in preseason and i think this is his last decent year. But we might have to see about Cullen/Alex, but right now i'd take Alex

mqtirishfan
08-27-2007, 10:09 PM
worst DE's?

really? nahhh. for a 4-3 defense. Green Bay and Chicago especially, are loaded.

sure, there's little named talent (with the exception of maybe ogunleye and kgb, kampmann is getting there...) and there's no freenys or peppers or strahans... but, i would be scared as hell of mark anderson...

The thing is, Ogunleye and Kampman are the class of the NFC North, and KGB, Mark Anderson, Cullen Jenkins and Alex Brown are the second tier at this point. That's not exactly deep. The Vikes and Lions offer absolutely nothing. I'd be shocked if a casual fan could name both starters on the Detroit Lions. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if a hardcore fan didn't know both of them.

neko4
08-27-2007, 11:18 PM
The thing is, Ogunleye and Kampman are the class of the NFC North, and KGB, Mark Anderson, Cullen Jenkins and Alex Brown are the second tier at this point. That's not exactly deep. The Vikes and Lions offer absolutely nothing. I'd be shocked if a casual fan could name both starters on the Detroit Lions. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if a hardcore fan didn't know both of them.

Yes but kampman is about to enter a tier w/ Peppers and Little (if he follows up nicely on this season) His talent among the best in the league. Plus Cullen and Anderson fall under the rising star category. Both had very strong seasons last year

Crazy_Chris
08-28-2007, 12:59 AM
Whoa now... Kampman is pretty good but to even mention him in the same breath as Julius Peppers is pretty unrealistic.

DHVF
08-28-2007, 01:02 AM
Whoa now... Kampman is pretty good but to even mention him in the same breath as Julius Peppers is pretty unrealistic.
Unrealistic? How so? I mean, not only is he one of the best pass rushers in the league, but he is also great against the run. If that's not deemed worthy of being in Peppers' class, I don't think Peppers deserves to be there.

BuckNaked
08-28-2007, 01:03 AM
Unrealistic? How so? I mean, not only is he one of the best pass rushers in the league, but he is also great against the run. If that's not deemed worthy of being in Peppers' class, I don't think Peppers deserves to be there.

You know, the same could be said for Ray Edwards.

Crazy_Chris
08-28-2007, 01:08 AM
Unrealistic? How so? I mean, not only is he one of the best pass rushers in the league, but he is also great against the run. If that's not deemed worthy of being in Peppers' class, I don't think Peppers deserves to be there.

I just Think no other DE has the Impact on the game like Peppers does. Julius Peppers Can take over the game by himself from Hell just look back to last year when the panthers played the vikings peppers almost beat the vikings By himself Peppers is in a class of his own IMO. Thats why i think unrealistic but Kampman is right up there.

EDIT:Forgot Jason Taylor i'd put him right up there with Peppers.

mqtirishfan
08-28-2007, 01:13 AM
You know, the same could be said for Ray Edwards.

If you remove the words best and great and substitute average and mediocre.

Crazy_Chris
08-28-2007, 01:18 AM
If you remove the words best and great and substitute average and mediocre.
If you remove the words best and great and substitute average and mediocre.

Ray Edwards is an Animal, You shall see... Just Wait

Vikes99ej
08-28-2007, 11:44 AM
If you remove the words best and great and substitute average and mediocre.

It's a good thing Vikings preseason games are just broadcasted regionally. I'm sure you haven't seen a single one.