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JagHombre22
08-19-2007, 03:33 PM
QB:Peyton Manning
QB:Byron Leftwich/Vince Young

RB:Maurice Jones-Drew
RB:Fred Taylor/Joesph Addai

FB:Greg Jones

WR:Reggie Wayne
WR:Andre Johnson
WR:Marvin Harrison

TE: Dallas Clark
TE: Owen Daniels

OT:Ryan Diem
OG:Chris Naeole
C: Jeff Saturday
OG: Benji Olson
OT:Khalif Barnes

DE:Dwight Freeney
DT:Marcus Stroud
DT:John Henderson
DE:Kyle Vanden-Bosch/Bobby McCray

OLB:Daryl Smith
MLB:Mike Peterson
OLB: Keith Bullock

CB:Rashean Mathis
FS:Reggie Nelson/Mike Griffin
SS:Bob Sanders
CB:Adam Jones/Dunta Robinson

K:Adam Vinateri
P:Who cares...

elway777
08-19-2007, 03:35 PM
:D..............

Yung Flippa
08-19-2007, 03:36 PM
No DeMaco Ryans?

BigJohn98
08-19-2007, 04:24 PM
Fred Taylor is the best runningback in the division. Next is Maurice Drew.

BigJohn98
08-19-2007, 04:25 PM
No DeMaco Ryans?

Mike Peterson is better than Ryans.

Ewing
08-19-2007, 04:32 PM
Bryon Leftwich ahead of Vince Young? You're kidding right?

BigJohn98
08-19-2007, 04:33 PM
Bryon Leftwich ahead of Vince Young? You're kidding right?

What do you know? Another person buying into the Vince Young hype. I guess you thought he should have been ROY too?

Ewing
08-19-2007, 04:40 PM
What do you know? Another person buying into the Vince Young hype. I guess you thought he should have been ROY too?

2,751 Total Yards
19 Touchdowns
Four Time Rookie Of The Week
Most Rushing Yards Ever By A Rookie Quarterback(552)
Most Rushing Touchdowns Ever By A Rookie Quarterback(7)
Led All Rookies In Touchdowns(19)
Led NFL In Rushing Touchdowns By A Quarterback(7)
Largest Comeback Ever By A Rookie Quarterback(Giants)
Largest Comeback Ever With Less Than 10 Minutes Left In Game(Giants)
Largest Comeback In Titans Franchise History(Giants)
First Rookie Quarterback To Lead Two 14+ Point Comebacks In Season(Giants, Colts)
Three Fourth Quarter Comebacks(Giants, Colts, Bills)
Led Titans To Six Straight Wins
8-5 Record As A Starter

Yes, I do think he should have been Rookie Of The Year. If you wanna bring up QB Rating that's fine but you can't look at just passing stats for scrambling quarterbacks. He had an incredible year and you'd be nuts to take Leftwich over him.

remix 6
08-19-2007, 04:42 PM
QB: Manning
RB: Jones-Drew
FB: ?
WR: Johnson
WR: Harrison
WR: Wayne
TE: Daniels
skipping OL since i dont pay much attention to south Line

DE: Freeney
DT: Henderson
DT: Stroud
DE: KVB
OLB: Bulluck
MLB: Ryans
OLB: Peterson (no 1 else is worthy..so move him)
CB: Mathis
CB: Robinson
S: Hope
S: Sanders

BigJohn98
08-19-2007, 04:46 PM
Tell me how good Vince Young did against a team with a defense. How'd he do against the Jags? 66.7 QB rating; 51% completion percentage; more than TDs. Yeah, that sounds like ROY material. You just buy into the hype that ESPN feeds everyone. Maurice Drew should have been ROY. 941 rushing yards and 13 tds; 46 rec, 436 yards, 2 tds; 860 kick return yards, 1 touchdown, 27.7 yard kick return average. Maurice Drew was more consistant than Vince Young. He should have been ROY. Period. If Jacksonville was a bigger market, he would have won it.

VY10
08-19-2007, 04:47 PM
Vonta Leach - FB. Really good run blocker but doesn't really do anything else.

Pit Bull #53
08-19-2007, 05:16 PM
Ahmard Hall is a beastly FB. Even Scott has him ranked #10 in the NFL after his rookie year.

Ewing
08-19-2007, 05:34 PM
Tell me how good Vince Young did against a team with a defense. How'd he do against the Jags? 66.7 QB rating; 51% completion percentage; more than TDs. Yeah, that sounds like ROY material. You just buy into the hype that ESPN feeds everyone. Maurice Drew should have been ROY. 941 rushing yards and 13 tds; 46 rec, 436 yards, 2 tds; 860 kick return yards, 1 touchdown, 27.7 yard kick return average. Maurice Drew was more consistant than Vince Young. He should have been ROY. Period. If Jacksonville was a bigger market, he would have won it.

Did you stop to think that maybe Vince didn't have a chance to put up numbers against Jacksonville the second time around because the defense kept scoring on every turnover so the offense didn't see the field? Also, Tennessee isn't a large market either. If Drew is so vastly superior to Young then explain to me why Vince was starting by the end of the year and Drew had one start all season long?

Maybe he doesn't have sexy stats in the passing game, but he turned around a bad team in a team who went one game short of the playoffs. And you have to consider his scrambling abilities and his rushing TDs. Plus, he did that without a great supporting cast. His top two recievers were Bennett and Givens(who was put on the IR halfway through the year). Not Boldin and Fitzgerald like the rookie who was supposed to be more NFL ready has in Arizona or Wayne and Harrison like Peyton has. Bennett is an average reciever and Givens isn't that much better. Not to mention his line is vastly average as well.

Right now Vince has shown (even without an 90.0 QB rating) that he can be a superstar at the NFL level. Right now, you Vince haters are losing. He played very well for a rookie against good competition. As a rookie, Peyton Manning had more INTs than TDs, Carson Palmer had the same amount of TDs and INTs in his first year as a starter.

Maybe next year Vince is gonna fall, but now, in my opinion, no one can complain about his ROTY award. I can't see another rookie who had the same impact on his team as Vince.

BigJohn98
08-19-2007, 05:39 PM
If Drew is so vastly superior to Young then explain to me why Vince was starting by the end of the year and Drew had one start all season long?



Umm, ever hear of a guy named Fred Taylor?

jag
08-19-2007, 05:41 PM
Vince Young and Maurice Jones-Drew both had great rookie years. And finished one, two in the ROY voting.

Theres nothing left to talk about.

Ewing
08-19-2007, 05:44 PM
Umm, ever hear of a guy named Fred Taylor?

Well maybe it's just me but the Rookie Of The Year should probably start more than one game.

Shiver
08-19-2007, 05:50 PM
Did you stop to think that maybe Vince didn't have a chance to put up numbers against Jacksonville the second time around because the defense kept scoring on every turnover so the offense didn't see the field? Also, Tennessee isn't a large market either. If Drew is so vastly superior to Young then explain to me why Vince was starting by the end of the year and Drew had one start all season long?

Maybe he doesn't have sexy stats in the passing game, but he turned around a bad team in a team who went one game short of the playoffs. And you have to consider his scrambling abilities and his rushing TDs. Plus, he did that without a great supporting cast. His top two recievers were Bennett and Givens(who was put on the IR halfway through the year). Not Boldin and Fitzgerald like the rookie who was supposed to be more NFL ready has in Arizona or Wayne and Harrison like Peyton has. Bennett is an average reciever and Givens isn't that much better. Not to mention his line is vastly average as well.

Right now Vince has shown (even without an 90.0 QB rating) that he can be a superstar at the NFL level. Right now, you Vince haters are losing. He played very well for a rookie against good competition. As a rookie, Peyton Manning had more INTs than TDs, Carson Palmer had the same amount of TDs and INTs in his first year as a starter.

Maybe next year Vince is gonna fall, but now, in my opinion, no one can complain about his ROTY award. I can't see another rookie who had the same impact on his team as Vince.

I remember when I was saying the same things about Michael Vick back in '02-'04 and he never became the player he should have been, off the field issues aside. The bottom line is Vince needs to take his passing to the next level to become a legitimate, as in not just in the media, superstar. Maurice Jones-Drew had a spectacular year and had Young not been such a media darling, the OROTY would have been Jones-Drew in a landslide.

All that being said; I would definitely put him over Byron Leftwich. It smacks of bias when a Jaguars fan puts Leftwich over Young. Leftwich hasn't proven anything on the NFL level. He is essentially playing for his career this next year. At least Young has an excuse for not being a good passer, he was only a rookie; what is Leftwich's excuse?

Ewing
08-19-2007, 06:05 PM
I remember when I was saying the same things about Michael Vick back in '02-'04 and he never became the player he should have been, off the field issues aside. The bottom line is Vince needs to take his passing to the next level to become a legitimate, as in not just in the media, superstar. Maurice Jones-Drew had a spectacular year and had Young not been such a media darling, the OROTY would have been Jones-Drew in a landslide.

All that being said; I would definitely put him over Byron Leftwich. It smacks of bias when a Jaguars fan puts Leftwich over Young. Leftwich hasn't proven anything on the NFL level. He is essentially playing for his career this next year. At least Young has an excuse for not being a good passer, he was only a rookie; what is Leftwich's excuse?

Keep in mind Vick had over a year longer than Vince to learn the playbook and team. Also, Vince was a far better college player and leader than Vick was. Vick was able to bring his team back on one notable occasion and yes, he was able to bring them back from 21 down to FSU but they still lost. Vince on the other hand was Jesus Christ in cleats when the Longhorns needed him the most. In my opinion, the most important part of being a franchise quarterback is leadership. Something which Vince clearly has.

Was MJD good last year? Yes. Was he as important to his team's success as Vince Young? Hell no.

Shiver
08-19-2007, 06:27 PM
Keep in mind Vick had over a year longer than Vince to learn the playbook and team.

In '02 he had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio, a 80+ passer rating and 13-yards per completion. So he was much, much better than Young was last year. Yet he never developed as a player. With Young it is to be determined whether he does, or does not.

Also, Vince was a far better college player and leader than Vick was. Vick was able to bring his team back on one notable occasion and yes, he was able to bring them back from 21 down to FSU but they still lost. Vince on the other hand was Jesus Christ in cleats when the Longhorns needed him the most. In my opinion, the most important part of being a franchise quarterback is leadership. Something which Vince clearly has.

Much better college player and leader? Vick finished 3rd for the heisman as a freshman! Young finished 2nd for the heisman as a junior. Vick was drafted 1st, Young was drafted third. Had Vick stayed in VT for his third year, who are you to say he couldn't have done what Young did? When Young was a sophomore several draft experts didn't even think he was a QB prospect!

Was MJD good last year? Yes. Was he as important to his team's success as Vince Young? Hell no.

If you've read Pro Football Prospectus 2007's Titans page, it was evident that the Titans' late season run was propelled by luck. It wasn't Young's "superhuman" ability to lead. He did very well against bad teams like the Texans, Bills and the imploding Giants. Whenver he faced a real challenge he looked every bit a rookie QB who couldn't pass.

Ewing
08-19-2007, 06:33 PM
In '02 he had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio, a 80+ passer rating and 13-yards per completion. So he was much, much better than Young was last year. Yet he never developed as a player. With Young it is to be determined whether he does, or does not.

Over a year longer to learn the system and players. Had Vick started his rookie year he probably would have put similar to Vince.

Much better college player and leader? Vick finished 3rd for the heisman as a freshman! Young finished 2nd for the heisman as a junior. Vick was drafted 1st, Young was drafted third. Had Vick stayed in VT for his third year, who are you to say he couldn't have done what Young did? When Young was a sophomore several draft experts didn't even think he was a QB prospect!

2006 Rose Bowl. I don't need to say anything else.

If you've read Pro Football Prospectus 2007's Titans page, it was evident that the Titans' late season run was propelled by luck. It wasn't Young's "superhuman" ability to lead. He did very well against bad teams like the Texans, Bills and the imploding Giants. Whenver he faced a real challenge he looked every bit a rookie QB who couldn't pass.

I don't believe in luck. Sorry, it's like bringing up Santa Claus to me.

Moses
08-19-2007, 06:35 PM
I remember when I was saying the same things about Michael Vick back in '02-'04 and he never became the player he should have been, off the field issues aside. The bottom line is Vince needs to take his passing to the next level to become a legitimate, as in not just in the media, superstar. Maurice Jones-Drew had a spectacular year and had Young not been such a media darling, the OROTY would have been Jones-Drew in a landslide.

All that being said; I would definitely put him over Byron Leftwich. It smacks of bias when a Jaguars fan puts Leftwich over Young. Leftwich hasn't proven anything on the NFL level. He is essentially playing for his career this next year. At least Young has an excuse for not being a good passer, he was only a rookie; what is Leftwich's excuse?

Vick was a top 10 QB...

How is Vince Young not worthy of the ROY award? I swear that many people on this forum don't even watch NFL games, they just read stats. Jones-Drew was an excellent runner but Vince Young was absolutely spectacular and turned a terrible team into a playoff contender in his rookie season. I don't get why people are hating on him. That was one of the greatest rookie seasons a quarterback has had in recent memory.

Yet, people will still talk about Jones-Drew like he's the second coming of Barry Sanders. He had a nice season and proved he is a legitimate all-around threat. Take him off the Jaguars and how much do they get worse? Now take Young off the Titans. They're picking 1st last draft and Russell is their pick.

The Unseen
08-19-2007, 07:28 PM
Vince Young and Maurice Jones-Drew both had great rookie years. And finished one, two in the ROY voting.

Theres nothing left to talk about.

Thank.

You.

Shiver
08-19-2007, 08:01 PM
How is Vince Young not worthy of the ROY award? I swear that many people on this forum don't even watch NFL games, they just read stats. Jones-Drew was an excellent runner but Vince Young was absolutely spectacular and turned a terrible team into a playoff contender in his rookie season. I don't get why people are hating on him. That was one of the greatest rookie seasons a quarterback has had in recent memory.

Vince Young gets way too much credit for the Titans' turnaround. Was he the reason that Matthias Kiwanuka forgot how the tackle? Was he the reason Rob Bironas hit a 60-yard FG? Was he the reason the Titans' defense capitalized on three David Garrard turnovers into touchdowns? They won all of those games by the slimmest of margins. In the grand scheme of things luck balances out. Teams that get lucky ('04 Falcons, '05 Jaguars) become unlucky ('05 Falcons, '06 Jaguars), it's an ebb and flow. What will happen if Young improves but the Titans suck this year? Then what will be said about his "leadership" skills?

Yet, people will still talk about Jones-Drew like he's the second coming of Barry Sanders. He had a nice season and proved he is a legitimate all-around threat. Take him off the Jaguars and how much do they get worse? Now take Young off the Titans. They're picking 1st last draft and Russell is their pick.

That is overt conjecture on your part. No one said that Jones-Drew is the second coming of anything. He had a dominant season as a rookie. He was already producing like a top flight RB, while Young still has ways to go as a QB. Vince Young's flaws, that he would certainly admit that he needs to work on, go away when you have the media and their 'QB = wins' mentality backing you.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-19-2007, 08:21 PM
My two cents:

I was fine with Vince winning ROY. I would have voted Colston, but all three of Colston, VY and Drew had very good cases. I was just relieved it didnt go to Bush. What Vince did is rare. He took over as a starting QB on a bad team, and the team put up a mediocre record. Even though he didn't have great stats, he made plays when he needed to, excited the fanbase, and didn't lose many games. And that's what a rookie has to avoid, losing games. As good as Drew was, he was a runningback who benefitted from another very good RB in the same backfield. Slightly easier to do.

cardsalltheway
08-19-2007, 08:39 PM
Very solid list, no major complaints here. I'm pretty sure Bob lines up at free safety though, so I'd give him the nod there and Chris hope the SS spot.

Gchu83
08-19-2007, 09:00 PM
No DeMeco is plain wrong.

KILLERSANTA
08-19-2007, 09:13 PM
All-NFC East:

QB: Donovan McNabb

RB: Brian Westbrook

HB: Chris Cooley(no good FB in the east, So I'm going with a H-Back)

WR: TO
WR: Plaxico Burress

TE: Jeremy Shockey

OT: Chris Samuels
OG: Shawn Andrews
C: Andre Gurode(no great C's in the east)
OG: Randy Thomas(I think this will be Davis next year)
OT: Jon Runyan

DE: Michael Strahan
DT: Jason Ferguson
DT: Mike Patterson(I guess, DT's suck in the east)
DE: Osi Umenyiora

OLB: DeMarcus Ware
MLB: Antonio Pierce
OLB: Marcus Washington

CB: Terence Newman
FS: Brian Dawkins
SS: Roy Williams
CB: Sheldon Brown(I'd take him over Lito any day of the week)

K: David Akers
P: Mat McBriar

OzTitan
08-19-2007, 09:21 PM
Hrm I'd replace Olson with Jacob Bell even if it is RG. He is our best OG anywhere he plays.

And I might consider Thornton over Daryl Smith, but I guess they're pretty close. Also, doesn't Sanders play FS? Should be Sanders at FS, Hope at SS.

Bobo
08-19-2007, 10:14 PM
Ahmard Hall is a beastly FB. Even Scott has him ranked #10 in the NFL after his rookie year.

What he said ;)

Bobo
08-19-2007, 10:20 PM
If Jacksonville was a bigger market, he would have won it.

I guess I'll just stay out of the "the Titans were just lucky last year" and "VY didn't deserve ROY" debates. Too old, same arguements.

But this is funny. You think that huge market of NASHVILLE got VY the award? Hehe. ESPN and most of the media hardly ever talked about TN until VY started making things happen. And I'll say he was overhyped, that's media for you, but he deserved attention, fo sho.

Pit Bull #53
08-19-2007, 10:30 PM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - Joseph Addai
FB - Ahmard Hall
TE - Dallas Clark
WR - Marvin Harrison
WR - Andre Johnson
WR - Reggie Wayne
LT - Khalif Barnes, Michael Roos (toss up)
RG - Chris Naeole
C - Jeff Saturday
LG - Manuwai or Bell
RT - Ryan Diem

DE - Dwight Freeney
DT - John Henderson
DT - Marcus Stroud
DE - Kyle Vanden Bosch
OLB - Keith Bulluck
MLB - DeMeco Ryans
OLB - Mike Peterson (just to get the 3 best)
CB - Rashean Mathis
CB - Dunta Robinson
FS - Bob Sanders
SS - Chris Hope

yourfavestoner
08-19-2007, 10:32 PM
Offensive line is a mess...
Should be

LT: Khalif Barnes/Michael Roos (they're pretty much equal)
LG: Vince Manuwai
C: Jeff Saturday
RG: Chris Naeoe
RT: Jacob Bell

OzTitan
08-19-2007, 10:51 PM
Bell plays LG, not RT anymore.

TitanHope
08-20-2007, 04:26 PM
How did this become a ROTY debate? That debate, and usually the Vince Young subject in general, is just like discussing religion or politics. Everyone's minds are made up on the topic, and there ain't no way in hell that they'll be convinced otherwise. If you can't discuss it maturely, all other argument over it is just petty.

Anyway, my all AFC South team:

QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Joseph Addai
FB: Greg Jones
WR: Marvin Harrison
WR: Andre Johnson
WR: Reggie Wayne
TE: Dallas Clark
OL: Anyone not on the Texans...

RE: Dwight Freeney
DT: John Henderson
DT: Haynesworth/Stroud
LE: Kyle Vanden Bosch
LOLB: David Thornton
MLB: Mike Peterson
ROLB: Keith Bullock
CB: Rashean Mathis
CB: Dunta Robinson
SS: Chris Hope
FS: Bob Sanders

Some things to point out...

I did this all by position, ie. if Chris Hope was a FS, he would be behind Sanders and the best actual FS would be the starting at that position. Didn't do O-line, since I don't keep up with the other teams in that area. Haynesworth had a better year statistically than Stroud, and both played in the same number of games, but I do recognize that Stroud is probably the better player, so that's why they shared. Our conference has lousy safety depth. And thats about it.

yourfavestoner
08-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Bell plays LG, not RT anymore.

Ah. I meant David Stewart.

Bobo
08-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Ah. I meant David Stewart.

I think he could turn out better than Bell, but it's still early. At least from one year's worth of viewing this new line, no one mauls on our line like Stewart. And you can tell he gets under the skin of many defenders.

Get em Big Country! :D

Apriori
08-20-2007, 10:20 PM
IMO in terms of RBs it goes,
1. Jones-Drew
2. Addai
3. Taylor
in terms of production, but
1. Addai
2.Taylor
3. Jones-Drew
in terms of who I'd want to carry the full load for my hypothetical team.

Anyways, I might as well put in my opinion for some All NFC-Northers.

QB-Kitna (flame away)
RB-Kevin Jones when healthy, Benson otherwise.
FB-Whoever is playing FB for the Vikings these days.
WR-Roy Williams
WR-Calvin Johnson
WR-Donald Driver
(#4 WR: Greg Jennings?)
TE-?

OL Not picked positionally.
OL-Backus
OL-Steve Hutch
OL-Matt Birk
OL-Olin Kreutz
OL-Pick somebody from the Bears.

DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
DT-Shaun Rogers
DT-Cory Redding/Somebody from the Bears?
DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
LB-Urlacher
LB-Briggs
LB-Sims/Hawk
CB-That one guy on the Vikings
S-That one guy on the Bears
S-?
CB-Charles Woodson

K-Longwell
P-Harris
PR/KR-Hester

TimD
08-20-2007, 10:32 PM
Ahmard Hall is a beastly FB. Even Scott has him ranked #10 in the NFL after his rookie year.

yeah he is a solid FB...

7-11
08-20-2007, 11:44 PM
IMO in terms of RBs it goes,
1. Jones-Drew
2. Addai
3. Taylor
in terms of production, but
1. Addai
2.Taylor
3. Jones-Drew
in terms of who I'd want to carry the full load for my hypothetical team.

Anyways, I might as well put in my opinion for some All NFC-Northers.

QB-Kitna (flame away)
RB-Kevin Jones when healthy, Benson otherwise.
FB-Whoever is playing FB for the Vikings these days.
WR-Roy Williams
WR-Calvin Johnson
WR-Donald Driver
(#4 WR: Greg Jennings?)
TE-?

OL Not picked positionally.
OL-Backus
OL-Steve Hutch
OL-Matt Birk
OL-Olin Kreutz
OL-Pick somebody from the Bears.

DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
DT-Shaun Rogers
DT-Cory Redding/Somebody from the Bears?
DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
LB-Urlacher
LB-Briggs
LB-Sims/Hawk
CB-That one guy on the Vikings
S-That one guy on the Bears
S-?
CB-Charles Woodson

K-Longwell
P-Harris
PR/KR-Hester

thats up there with the worst attempt at picking a team ever

yourfavestoner
08-21-2007, 12:13 AM
Um....no Tommie Harris?

fondoffilm
08-22-2007, 09:41 PM
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Maurice Jones-Drew
FB: Greg Jones
WR: Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne
TE: Dallas Clark
LT: Khalif Barnes
LG: Vince Manuwai
C: Jeff Saturday
RG: Chris Naeole
RT: Ryan Diem

DE: Dwight Freeney, Kyle Vanden Bosch
DT: Marcus Stroud, John Henderson
SLB: David Thornton
MLB: Mike Peterson
WLB: Keith Bulluck
CB: Rashean Mathis, Dunta Robinson
FS: Bob Sanders
SS: Chris Hope

K: Adam Vinatieri
P: Craig Hentrich (I guess)

HC: Tony Dungy
OC: Norm Chow
DC: Mike Smith

7-11
08-23-2007, 01:15 AM
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Maurice Jones-Drew
FB: Greg Jones
WR: Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne
TE: Dallas Clark
LT: Khalif Barnes
LG: Vince Manuwai
C: Jeff Saturday
RG: Chris Naeole
RT: Ryan Diem

DE: Dwight Freeney, Kyle Vanden Bosch
DT: Marcus Stroud, John Henderson
SLB: David Thornton
MLB: Mike Peterson
WLB: Keith Bulluck
CB: Rashean Mathis, Dunta Robinson
FS: Bob Sanders
SS: Chris Hope

K: Adam Vinatieri
P: Craig Hentrich (I guess)

HC: Tony Dungy
OC: Norm Chow
DC: Mike Smith

ding ding ding, we have a winner. id only make one swap and thats sliding Mike Peterson to slb and bringing in Demeco Ryans. but i can understand youre probably picking strictly by position

49erfanatic
08-23-2007, 11:23 AM
IMO in terms of RBs it goes,
1. Jones-Drew
2. Addai
3. Taylor
in terms of production, but
1. Addai
2.Taylor
3. Jones-Drew
in terms of who I'd want to carry the full load for my hypothetical team.

Anyways, I might as well put in my opinion for some All NFC-Northers.

QB-Kitna (flame away)
RB-Kevin Jones when healthy, Benson otherwise.
FB-Whoever is playing FB for the Vikings these days.
WR-Roy Williams
WR-Calvin Johnson
WR-Donald Driver
(#4 WR: Greg Jennings?)
TE-?

OL Not picked positionally.
OL-Backus
OL-Steve Hutch
OL-Matt Birk
OL-Olin Kreutz
OL-Pick somebody from the Bears.

DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
DT-Shaun Rogers
DT-Cory Redding/Somebody from the Bears?
DE-Pick somebody from the Bears.
LB-Urlacher
LB-Briggs
LB-Sims/Hawk
CB-That one guy on the Vikings
S-That one guy on the Bears
S-?
CB-Charles Woodson

K-Longwell
P-Harris
PR/KR-Hester

truly one of the worst posts that i've seen. If you don't know what you're talking about just save yourself the embarrassment

CC.SD
08-23-2007, 12:12 PM
The real rookie of the year should have been Marcus McNeill anyway. Who ever heard of a rookie LT starting in every game, starting in the pro bowl, with the league MVP averaging 7.6 yards per carry behind him, with no holding penalties? All with two broken hands.

TitanHope
08-23-2007, 12:53 PM
I have Addai over Mo-Jo due to a few reasons. Last year, Addai had more carries (302 including the playoffs), which is 136 more than Mo-Jo. He had more yards (1,375 including the playoffs), which is 434 than Mo-Jo. More catches (62 including playoffs), which is 16 more than Mo-Jo. And more receiving yards ( 443 including playoffs), which is 7 more than Mo-Jo. The only stats that Mo-Jo outperformed Addai in is YPCatch and YPCarry, and also in touchdowns, but in every game Mo-Jo had a TD in, except for in both games vs the Colts attrocious run defense, he never broke 100 yards.

There's no argument that both guys are studs, but if we're going by stats, which is the way the Maurice Jones-Drew supporters for ROTY think the award should be decided by, then I think Mo-Jo is the 3rd best rookie in the AFC South.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-23-2007, 12:59 PM
The real rookie of the year should have been Marcus McNeill anyway. Who ever heard of a rookie LT starting in every game, starting in the pro bowl, with the league MVP averaging 7.6 yards per carry behind him, with no holding penalties? All with two broken hands.


You could definitely make an argument for him. A lot of great rookies last year. Colston, Young, Drew, Addai, McNeill, any of those guys could have won rookie of the year and I wouldn't have had anything wrong with it.

The Unseen
08-23-2007, 01:52 PM
I have Addai over Mo-Jo due to a few reasons. Last year, Addai had more carries (302 including the playoffs), which is 136 more than Mo-Jo. He had more yards (1,375 including the playoffs), which is 434 than Mo-Jo. More catches (62 including playoffs), which is 16 more than Mo-Jo. And more receiving yards ( 443 including playoffs), which is 7 more than Mo-Jo. The only stats that Mo-Jo outperformed Addai in is YPCatch and YPCarry, and also in touchdowns, but in every game Mo-Jo had a TD in, except for in both games vs the Colts attrocious run defense, he never broke 100 yards.

There's no argument that both guys are studs, but if we're going by stats, which is the way the Maurice Jones-Drew supporters for ROTY think the award should be decided by, then I think Mo-Jo is the 3rd best rookie in the AFC South.

I can't argue with you on that. Addai will most likely put up better stats than MJD this year because Addai will feature while MJD will be in a dual-role again.

A couple counterpoints would be that Addai has/had more of an advantage when he runs because of an outstanding Colts passing game that the defense has to be constantly aware of, whereas the Jaguar's passing game is/was mediocre at best. This theoretically counters MJD's stat advantage due to the two gaudy games vs. the Colts, but that's intangible and therefore unproveable: it's just a thought I'd put out there.

Also, MJD was also a very good kick returner, which is inclusive in overall value.

Dam8610
08-23-2007, 01:55 PM
Ryans would be the division's MLB.

TitanHope
08-23-2007, 03:35 PM
A couple counterpoints would be that Addai has/had more of an advantage when he runs because of an outstanding Colts passing game that the defense has to be constantly aware of, whereas the Jaguar's passing game is/was mediocre at best. This theoretically counters MJD's stat advantage due to the two gaudy games vs. the Colts, but that's intangible and therefore unproveable: it's just a thought I'd put out there.

Also, MJD was also a very good kick returner, which is inclusive in overall value.

You are very true about his KR skills and stats. He even had a return TD last year. But I'll counterpoint your counterpoint by saying that playing in a pass-heavy offense isn't exactly a benefit. Let alone running behind a line thats better at pass blocking without the aid of a FB. While on the other hand, running in a run heavy offense, behind a line thats better at run blocking and with the aid of a fullback would be considered advantageous.

Its hard to compare the two, since they're not very similar backs. As a Titans fan, who probably dislikes the Jags and Colts equally, I can say that I'd like Addai more. But, its not like I can critique another team's RB's (Damn this glass house!). Both are great, but I give the slight edge to Addai.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-23-2007, 03:43 PM
If Drew is so vastly superior to Young then explain to me why Vince was starting by the end of the year and Drew had one start all season long?


laughable. he saw the damn field plenty, and if you think that the player who starts is that much more important or anything along those lines, then u my friend are out to lunch. the difference between the positions is something u might waant to look at also. how many backup qbs do u see coming in for every other play?

i'll be honest, i didn't read the rest of what u wrote because throwing something out thats this stupid just grabs to much attention, makes reading the rest seem like a waste of time. i saw that u argued it further after also. this fact means absolutely nothing to ur arguement.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-23-2007, 10:14 PM
The real rookie of the year should have been Marcus McNeill anyway. Who ever heard of a rookie LT starting in every game, starting in the pro bowl, with the league MVP averaging 7.6 yards per carry behind him, with no holding penalties? All with two broken hands.

its a position (well oline in general) with little glory. u'll never see a league MVP be a oline person, and i highly doubt unless the rest of the field sux that they will even win a offensive rookie of the year award, or offensive player of the year award.

What McNeil did very much so was under publicized

BlindSite
08-24-2007, 02:44 AM
Ryans is NOT a better linebacker than Peterson.

OzTitan
08-24-2007, 04:39 AM
its a position (well oline in general) with little glory. u'll never see a league MVP be a oline person, and i highly doubt unless the rest of the field sux that they will even win a offensive rookie of the year award, or offensive player of the year award.

What McNeil did very much so was under publicized

McNeil played great, but I don't think it was under publicized, if anything it was pretty well publicized relative to other LT's, vets included. If he was drafted to a team like the Raiders or Browns and played just as well individually, obviously he could have really helped both, but I don't think he would have transcended their QB, HB, WR and 4 other OL position issues, and he would have been almost overlooked entirely IMO, likely without a Pro Bowl. Translation - could he have realistically gone to a better situation than the Chargers? I don't think so.

If he was a Brown or a Raider or whatever, he'd be just another Jason Peters, Michael Roos type young promising but not overly well known LT. Recognition at LT (or any OL I guess) comes with winning and talented offenses.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-24-2007, 11:30 AM
McNeil played great, but I don't think it was under publicized, if anything it was pretty well publicized relative to other LT's, vets included. If he was drafted to a team like the Raiders or Browns and played just as well individually, obviously he could have really helped both, but I don't think he would have transcended their QB, HB, WR and 4 other OL position issues, and he would have been almost overlooked entirely IMO, likely without a Pro Bowl. Translation - could he have realistically gone to a better situation than the Chargers? I don't think so.

If he was a Brown or a Raider or whatever, he'd be just another Jason Peters, Michael Roos type young promising but not overly well known LT. Recognition at LT (or any OL I guess) comes with winning and talented offenses.

i would have to agree with u on that. maybe i should have been a little more specific. Having a breakout year at LT will never be publicized anywhere near the level of a breakout RB, QB, etc. so although he may have been worthy of OROY, playing such in such an unglorified position makes people certainly overlook or downplay how well u play when u see the other positions making the big plays.

McNeil was certainly rewarded for his efforts, no doubt, but i was more just getting at the point for all olinemen and the lack of appreciation they get from most people (those people who only watch highlights, etc.) who would be lucky to even know there name, let alone vote them on an award.

LonghornsLegend
08-24-2007, 12:47 PM
Vince Young gets way too much credit for the Titans' turnaround. Was he the reason that Matthias Kiwanuka forgot how the tackle? Was he the reason Rob Bironas hit a 60-yard FG? Was he the reason the Titans' defense capitalized on three David Garrard turnovers into touchdowns? They won all of those games by the slimmest of margins. In the grand scheme of things luck balances out. Teams that get lucky ('04 Falcons, '05 Jaguars) become unlucky ('05 Falcons, '06 Jaguars), it's an ebb and flow. What will happen if Young improves but the Titans suck this year? Then what will be said about his "leadership" skills?



That is overt conjecture on your part. No one said that Jones-Drew is the second coming of anything. He had a dominant season as a rookie. He was already producing like a top flight RB, while Young still has ways to go as a QB. Vince Young's flaws, that he would certainly admit that he needs to work on, go away when you have the media and their 'QB = wins' mentality backing you.


your acting like QB isnt a much tougher position to learn, you of all people should know RB's come in as a rookie and grasp the position and concept, how many qb's come into their first year in the league and look like manning/palmer?


they are 2 different positions, so saying drew produced like a top flight rb and young has a ways to go as a qb is a moot point, unless you forget the type of rookie season peyton manning had...

and if everyone wants to scream media hype, then explain why didnt he win the heisman trophy? its not as if he's been given every award his whole life...


both players had great years, QB's are more important and valuable then a RB...the year rothlisberger won ROY, it was because his team won so many games and he was leading that team, it wasnt because he had the greatest qb season ever...you have to expect qb's to take that curve, given what vince did considering what everyone here said he would do is quite remarkable, and all that "luck" talk is nonsense...


you dont think the patriots needed some luck to win 3 super bowls? or anyone else who has a great season

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-24-2007, 12:55 PM
your acting like QB isnt a much tougher position to learn, you of all people should know RB's come in as a rookie and grasp the position and concept, how many qb's come into their first year in the league and look like manning/palmer?


they are 2 different positions, so saying drew produced like a top flight rb and young has a ways to go as a qb is a moot point, unless you forget the type of rookie season peyton manning had...

and if everyone wants to scream media hype, then explain why didnt he win the heisman trophy? its not as if he's been given every award his whole life...


both players had great years, QB's are more important and valuable then a RB...the year rothlisberger won ROY, it was because his team won so many games and he was leading that team, it wasnt because he had the greatest qb season ever...you have to expect qb's to take that curve, given what vince did considering what everyone here said he would do is quite remarkable, and all that "luck" talk is nonsense...


you dont think the patriots needed some luck to win 3 super bowls? or anyone else who has a great season

Well, Roethlisberger actually put up amazing stats for a rookie. His completion percentage was almost equal to VY's passer rating.

Turtlepower
08-24-2007, 12:58 PM
Well, Roethlisberger actually put up amazing stats for a rookie. His completion percentage was almost equal to VY's passer rating.

Which, coincidentally enough, happens to be Vince Young's IQ as well. Go figure.

TitanHope
08-24-2007, 04:28 PM
You can't compare Vince and Ben's rookie seasons. You just can't. Two totally different players and situations. Vince had to win games, Ben had to not be the reason they lost. Ben threw over 30 pass attempts 0 times in his rookie year, Young had to do it 3 times. Ben threw 20 or less pass attempts in 7 of his starts, Young did it 3 times (One of which was the Jacksonville game where he never was on the field practically). When you're not called upon to make plays, you can play conservatively. So the fact that Ben's completion percentage was outstanding isn't all that impressive, though it did inflate his passer rating, which doesn't include rushing yards and TD's that would obviously help Young in that area. And the fact that he had 11 INT's, 2 less than Vince, makes that stat seem worse. Ben had a near perfect situation where it wouldn't be a surprise for him to start that season, Vince had a horrible situation where it was thought he would sit out at least one season.

Both were worthy of their awards, and played great. But they can't be compared since what they did to win their awards were very different.


Which, coincidentally enough, happens to be Vince Young's IQ as well. Go figure.

Cute. How long did it take you to think of that one?