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Yung Flippa
08-29-2007, 01:02 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/28/1to100/index.html

Terrance Newman ahead of Chris McAlister?

They've got Dawan Landry too times, haha.

267. Dawan Landry SS, Ravens
&
454. Dawan Landry SS, Ravens

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-29-2007, 01:06 AM
Well, for his remark on Cutler "is he accurate enough" I guess he didn't notice how he threw for a much better percentage than either of the other rookies. 59% is pretty damn accurate for a rookie.

nobodyinparticular
08-29-2007, 01:11 AM
Fabian Washington is on there twice

GB12
08-29-2007, 01:22 AM
What a God awful list. I don't even know where to start. Infact it's not worth my time so I won't bother.

PACKmanN
08-29-2007, 01:28 AM
just most of the players ahead of AJ Hawk made me stop looking at this list.

BigDawg819
08-29-2007, 01:36 AM
Thats how bad ass Dawan Landry is! That or one is supposed to be Laron......

Boston
08-29-2007, 03:29 AM
Haha. Favre ranked 137, with the comment being, "best shape of his life." What a complete contradiction.

kalbears13
08-29-2007, 08:55 AM
LJ Smith above K2?

neko4
08-29-2007, 09:34 AM
nick barnett and AJ hawk should switch spots. Colledge should be in there

princefielder28
08-29-2007, 09:40 AM
Peter King just continues to make a joke out of himself

zoinks
08-29-2007, 09:49 AM
Jamarcus Russell? Is he an NFL player?

MasterShake
08-29-2007, 11:03 AM
71. Frank Gore RB, 49ers - Tiki West with 2,180 total yards in '06


71??? Tiki West?!!! Cause Frank Gore is so much like Tiki Barber...


Oh and Reggie Bush is way above Steven Jackson AND Gore on the list.....haha...

Chucky
08-29-2007, 11:56 AM
This is just a erally bad list

Calvin Johnson ahead of Reggie Wayne, Leon Hall ahead of Jonathon Joseph, the list goes on and on

Addict
08-29-2007, 12:02 PM
Jamarcus Russell? Is he an NFL player?

... don't be so sour.

Jughead10
08-29-2007, 12:10 PM
Have we failed to mention the biggest joke of this list?

AARON KAMPMAN AT #16????????

Freeney at #13 is bad as well, but I'm sure a lot of people won't be as upset with that one.

bearsfan_51
08-29-2007, 12:23 PM
Meh..Jason Taylor ahead of Champ Bailey and Urlacher? I mean..he's a great player, probably HOF, and he had a great year last year. But if I was starting a defense for the next 3-4 years I would take those two over Taylor at this point in his career. It's all subjective though.

SuperMcGee
08-29-2007, 01:13 PM
Jason Peters is the second ranked tackle, behind only Walter Jones, so it has to be a good list :)


....ok, it's really bad

OhioState
08-29-2007, 01:21 PM
what a ******, he has Chad Pennington ahead of AJ Hawk and Will Smith.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-29-2007, 01:22 PM
a list that says "Top 500" and that actually ranks them is never going to be a perfect list, but this list seems far from being even in that closely subjective area. some of these are just brain twisters and i'm not to sure of.........but honestly, this is what i expect from SI

scottyboy
08-29-2007, 01:31 PM
this and calling Ray Rice vastly over rated is why i use sports illustrated as toilet paper...

i only stay suscribed for the swimsuit issue...

kalbears13
08-29-2007, 01:33 PM
I think this list would be better if he just used the madden ratings.

Vikes99ej
08-29-2007, 01:47 PM
Poor Chris Simms.

BigDawg819
08-29-2007, 02:26 PM
this and calling Ray Rice vastly over rated is why i use sports illustrated as toilet paper...

i only stay suscribed for the swimsuit issue...

But Ray Rice is overrated..............

Vikes99ej
08-29-2007, 02:34 PM
Players that are ranked lower than Tarvaris Jackson:


324. Nick Barnett LB , Packers
339. Cato June LB, Bucs
348. James Farrior LB, Steelers
355. D'Brickashaw Ferguson T, Jets
369. Kris Jenkins DT, Panthers
392. Lorenzo Neal FB, Chargers
411. Isaac Bruce WR, Rams
421. Larry Allen G, 49ers
440. Donte' Stallworth WR, Patriots
463. Ty Law CB, Chiefs

The Legend
08-29-2007, 02:36 PM
favre at 113 wow

KCJ58
08-29-2007, 02:44 PM
18. Marc Bulger
20. Matt Hasselbeck

:)

KCJ58
08-29-2007, 02:45 PM
Chris Sims shouldn't even be on this list

GermanSaint
08-30-2007, 01:23 AM
bush on 19 allready ?

he isnt even the best RB on his team and mcallister isnt on the first list, too.

awful !

Average OT LB
08-30-2007, 02:34 AM
The list is fine.. not completely accurate but not an outrage by any means.. He has age as a factor- so older players are a little lower and young playmakers are a little higher. This list is just making homers upset.. not everyones favorite player can be top 20.. this is the entire NFL

bearsfan_51
08-30-2007, 02:39 AM
favre at 113 wow
That's way too high. Favre is basically Grossman at this point in his career but with a previously strong reputation.

Boston
08-30-2007, 02:57 AM
That's way too high. Favre is basically Grossman at this point in his career but with a previously strong reputation.

The only thing Favre and Grossman have in common is the "gunslinger" type mentality. Other than that, Grossman has nothing in common with Favre.

BlindSite
08-30-2007, 03:19 AM
Reggie Bush better than Smith? In what universe.

Average OT LB
08-30-2007, 03:59 AM
The only thing Favre and Grossman have in common is the "gunslinger" type mentality. Other than that, Grossman has nothing in common with Favre.

yes but the gunslinger thing contains oh so much

fondoffilm
08-30-2007, 04:14 AM
Jason Peters has feet like Astaire. Wow that was lame.

neko4
08-30-2007, 04:18 AM
That's way too high. Favre is basically Grossman at this point in his career but better.

There ya go, im sure thats what ya meant

Ewing
08-30-2007, 04:46 AM
Shaun Phillips ahead of Keith Bullock? Chris Samuels ahead of Jammal Brown? Michael Turner ahead of Willie Parker? Donte Whitner ahead of Bob Sanders? Why are Pacman and Vick ranked? Why is JaMarcus Russell who hasn't even signed a contract ahead of any quarterback?

Peter King, you have failed me for the last time. I am cancelling my S.I. subscription because of your stupidity.

Average OT LB
08-30-2007, 04:48 AM
Shaun Phillips ahead of Keith Bullock? Chris Samuels ahead of Jammal Brown? Michael Turner ahead of Willie Parker? Donte Whitner ahead of Bob Sanders? Why are Pacman and Vick ranked? Why is JaMarcus Russell who hasn't even signed a contract ahead of any quarterback?

Peter King, you have failed me for the last time. I am cancelling my S.I. subscription because of your stupidity.

to defend king a little bit... phillips should be ahead of bullock. the rest is dumb.

Ewing
08-30-2007, 04:49 AM
to defend king a little bit... phillips should be ahead of bullock. the rest is dumb.

Can Shaun Phillips defend the pass? No, all he can do is pass rush. Bullock is the most complete outside linebacker in all of football.

themaninblack
08-30-2007, 09:36 AM
can anyone say with a straight face that there are 47 players in this league better than chad johnson? call me a homer...

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-30-2007, 11:16 AM
The list is fine.. not completely accurate but not an outrage by any means.. He has age as a factor- so older players are a little lower and young playmakers are a little higher. This list is just making homers upset.. not everyones favorite player can be top 20.. this is the entire NFL

i would disagree. although any list is very subjective, this is not the most common sense or thought through list in the world. a list of 500 best ranked players is tough, no doubt, but people should be able to disagree all the same without u calling them homers. if u look at the list as a whole and think its top notch, then i'd say u are the homer.........no offence

bearsfan_51
08-30-2007, 11:27 AM
The only thing Favre and Grossman have in common is the "gunslinger" type mentality. Other than that, Grossman has nothing in common with Favre.
Look at the stats the last two years, they don't lie. Favre has 38 touchdowns to 47 interceptions. To imply that he's even close to a top 100 player is ridiculous. I don't know how many years it will take for Packers fans to get that he sucks but clearly they haven't yet.

By the way, by comparing Favre to Grossman, I don't mean to compliment Grossman in any way. At this point in their careers that is an insult. If Grossman has a season this year like Favre has the last two years I hope they have the sense to bench him and move on.

Vikes99ej
08-30-2007, 11:31 AM
Look at the stats the last two years, they don't lie. Favre has 38 touchdowns to 47 interceptions. To imply that he's even close to a top 100 player is ridiculous. I don't know how many years it will take for Packers fans to get that he sucks but clearly they haven't yet.

By the way, by comparing Favre to Grossman, I don't mean to compliment Grossman in any way. At this point in their careers that is an insult. If Grossman has a season this year like Favre has the last two years I hope they have the sense to bench him and move on.

Thank you, Bearsfan. They're both sure as hell better than Tarvaris Jackson, though.

BrownsTown
08-30-2007, 12:01 PM
Not only the Rankings, but the explanations. He ranks Kamerion Wimbley as the highest Brown, then calls him a "poor man's McGinest". Not only are they not similar players, but show me one GM who wants Willie McGinest over Kamerion Wimbley right now and I show you a GM that should be fired.

Boston
08-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Look at the stats the last two years, they don't lie. Favre has 38 touchdowns to 47 interceptions. To imply that he's even close to a top 100 player is ridiculous. I don't know how many years it will take for Packers fans to get that he sucks but clearly they haven't yet.

By the way, by comparing Favre to Grossman, I don't mean to compliment Grossman in any way. At this point in their careers that is an insult. If Grossman has a season this year like Favre has the last two years I hope they have the sense to bench him and move on.

Meh, whatever. I'm so tired of this arguement...

bearsfan_51
08-30-2007, 01:20 PM
Not only the Rankings, but the explanations. He ranks Kamerion Wimbley as the highest Brown, then calls him a "poor man's McGinest". Not only are they not similar players, but show me one GM who wants Willie McGinest over Kamerion Wimbley right now and I show you a GM that should be fired.
I'm sure he meant McGinest in his prime.

Shiver
08-30-2007, 01:27 PM
Two Texans, two Raiders and three Cardinals made the list before the first Falcons player... ouch.

Flyboy
08-30-2007, 02:10 PM
Two Texans, two Raiders and three Cardinals made the list before the first Falcons player... ouch.

It's Peter King. I wouldn't put much stock into it, d00d.

Watchman
08-30-2007, 03:53 PM
I usually don't worry too much about these lists. Hell I couldn't even attempt ranking the top 500 players.

But come on Derrick Brooks isn't even on the list? Derrick Brooks isn't one of the top 500 players in the league? Chris Simms is a better football player than Derrick Brooks?

Now I remember why I don't pay much attention to these type of lists.

awfullyquiet
08-30-2007, 04:08 PM
The only thing Favre and Grossman have in common is the "gunslinger" type mentality. Other than that, Grossman has nothing in common with Favre.

typical packer mentality.

this list really is ridiculous though...

bearfan
08-30-2007, 04:17 PM
Hahahahahha Hester is #69 above these notable players:
Frank Gore
Keith Bullock
Donovan McNabb
Ray Lewis
and just about everyone else.

Hester being higher than a lot of superstars is a joke. He needs to prove himself at something other than ST, even though he is an animal. I would rather have a stud RB, QB, LB than a stud KR.

Just looked at the rest of the list...a joke

Nitschke-Hawk
08-30-2007, 04:23 PM
Peter King must be inhaling too much of the chemicals they use to dye his hair and make him look pretty for the NBC camera. Stick to "inside information" Peter. I can't stand when the "connections" NFL guys give opinions cause everytime they do they say something dumb or false. The only ones that are good at both are John Clayton and Michael Smith.

bearsfan_51
08-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Hahahahahha Hester is #69 above these notable players:
Frank Gore
Keith Bullock
Donovan McNabb
Ray Lewis
and just about everyone else.

Hester being higher than a lot of superstars is a joke. He needs to prove himself at something other than ST, even though he is an animal. I would rather have a stud RB, QB, LB than a stud KR.

Just looked at the rest of the list...a joke
Yeah I agree. If the Eagles offered Donovan McNabb for Hester I'd take that trade and never look back.

mqtirishfan
08-30-2007, 07:03 PM
Hmm... 219 players better than Mario Williams, yet CJ has yet to play, and is 65?

Vikes99ej
08-30-2007, 07:38 PM
20. Matt Hasselbeck QB, Seahawks

I'm officially done with this thread.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-30-2007, 07:42 PM
Vince Young is ahead of Marvin Harrison and Aso.Not to mention alot of other people that are tons better than him.

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-30-2007, 07:59 PM
Two Texans, two Raiders and three Cardinals made the list before the first Falcons player... ouch.how is that an insult?Aso and Burgess are both great players.But yeah Id have Crumpler higher.

HoopsDemon12
08-30-2007, 08:00 PM
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit....

Denver Bronco99
08-31-2007, 03:30 PM
How is Elvis Dumerville higher then dre bly, john lynch?

ncst8fan83
08-31-2007, 04:18 PM
i'm beginning to think some of these "experts" jack off to reggie bush highlight tapes.

Twiddler
08-31-2007, 05:08 PM
Have we failed to mention the biggest joke of this list?

AARON KAMPMAN AT #16????????

Freeney at #13 is bad as well, but I'm sure a lot of people won't be as upset with that one.

I'm even a little embarrassed for this one. Granted, Kampman is a stellar DE and deserves a lot of credit for his play but you can't tell me that there are only 15 players better than him in the NFL. Peter King, please stop while you're ahead.

saintsfan912
08-31-2007, 05:22 PM
All Pro tackle Jammal Brown behind 8 other tackles is terrible. And Deuce at 200+ is disgusting. That dude is a ******.

neko4
08-31-2007, 05:24 PM
Aaron Kampman 16- Should be at 13 and Freeney at 16.

Donald Driver 89- He’s fine here.

Chad Clifton 92- I think he should be a bit higher, because in front of him is Cutler, and Cutler is still somewhat unproven whereas Clifton is a great LT.

Brett Favre 113- Should be 112 spots higher 

Al Harris 142- By some freak accident, D-Hall, Eli, and Kitna are higher than him.

Charles Woodson 169- Not bad here.

AJ Hawk 177- Probably a bit too high but not bad.

Cullen Jenkins 227- Good spot for an underated DE.

Mark Taucher 230- Good spot.

Greg Jennings 308-Good Spot for rising star.

Nick Barnett 324- Should be MUCH higher.

Vernand Morency 447- I wont complain with this pick.

Scott Wells 490- Not too shabby.

P-L
08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
I'm not upset with this list actually. Why? Because it gave me one of the best laughs I've had in a while. Reggie Bush is a top 20 player in the entire league? LOL. He isn't even a top 20 offensive player in the league.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2007, 08:59 PM
Vince Young is ahead of Marvin Harrison and Aso.Not to mention alot of other people that are tons better than him.

I was wondering about that too. I don't know what he did to be a top 50 player in the NFL. He has great potential, but he isn't there yet. I also don't know what he did to be 50 places ahead of Cutler. I could understand since Cutler really has flown under the media radar putting Young quite a few spots ahead, but not 50. I also don't know what Dawan Landry has done to be on the list twice.

Shiver
08-31-2007, 09:01 PM
I'm not upset with this list actually. Why? Because it gave me one of the best laughs I've had in a while. Reggie Bush is a top 20 player in the entire league? LOL. He isn't even a top 20 offensive player in the league.

He's not even the best RB on his own team.

d34ng3l021
08-31-2007, 09:47 PM
i'm beginning to think some of these "experts" jack off to reggie bush highlight tapes.

lmfao. I think I am going to sig quote you on that. do you mind?

Caddy
08-31-2007, 10:05 PM
95. Ronde Barber: A little rough on old Ronde in my opinion but at least he cracked the top 100.

185. Jeff Garcia: Somebody tell me how Garcia is a top 200 player in the NFL?

222. Cadillac Williams: Seems fair given his poor 2nd year.

251. Joey Galloway: One of my favourite players and might warrant a slightly higher position.

265. Gaines Adams: I hate that rookies are included in this list before playing a single down.

287. Barrett Ruud: I am honestly shocked he made the list. "Best of the LB crew"??? Derrick Brooks and Cato June are both better at the moment.

339. Cato June: See above.

408. Brian Kelly: A little rough on BK.

418. Kevin Carter: Doesn't really bother me either way.

458. Jeremy Trueblood: Not bad for a 2nd year RT but Davin Joseph is better.

500. Chris Simms: WTF? Maybe 2 years ago.

Where the hell is Derrick Brooks????

ncst8fan83
08-31-2007, 10:13 PM
lmfao. I think I am going to sig quote you on that. do you mind?

no, i don't.

by the end of this year, he's going to wish he had terrence holt on that list. Adub and Holt are gonna be naaaasty in Arizona.

tjpackers
09-01-2007, 10:18 AM
how do u rank an offensive linemen in the top 25

Twiddler
09-01-2007, 11:05 AM
how do u rank an offensive linemen in the top 25

Yeah, it's not like they ever do anything....

Ewing
09-01-2007, 04:45 PM
Hmm... 219 players better than Mario Williams, yet CJ has yet to play, and is 65?

No matter what Mario Williams does in the NFL he will always be known as the guy taken ahead of Reggie Bush and Vince Young. CJ was easily the best prospect this year in the draft and should be ranked high. 65? No. I'd go somewhere around 200.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-01-2007, 04:48 PM
What if he goes out and does better than Vince or Reggie?

Ewing
09-01-2007, 04:52 PM
What if he goes out and does better than Vince or Reggie?

The chances of that are very slim. Honestly if you had the number one pick in the draft that year would Mario Williams even enter your mind? You had one of the greatest running back prospects in the history of the draft and a quarterback who could change the game forever and instead they opted for a guy who at best is going to be a top ten DE in the league. Mario is going to be a good player but Bush and Young have FAR more potential and you'd be nuts to take a defensive linemen ahead of them.

LonghornsLegend
09-01-2007, 05:04 PM
The reggie bush love is outta control, the fact that he is higher then steve smith is ridiculous...and a whole 11 spots higher then steven jackson makes me want to hurl, seriously, 11 spots higher then steven jackson...


id love to hear him explain how based on both players being young, what did bush do last season in comparison to jacksons last season that would warrant him being ranked so much higher

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-01-2007, 05:41 PM
The chances of that are very slim. Honestly if you had the number one pick in the draft that year would Mario Williams even enter your mind? You had one of the greatest running back prospects in the history of the draft and a quarterback who could change the game forever and instead they opted for a guy who at best is going to be a top ten DE in the league. Mario is going to be a good player but Bush and Young have FAR more potential and you'd be nuts to take a defensive linemen ahead of them.


No, Mario, as a prospect is easily better than Young and arguably better than Bush. One third of the league had Mario rated #1. That's pretty good. So far, all three of them have shown dominance in one aspect of their position: Vince running, Reggie catching, and Mario stopping the run, all of them doing the "less important" task. Main difference is a RB who catches and a QB who runs get much more publicity. Shiver can chime in with more on the matter, as he read it in a book. But Mario, apparently was already a dominant run stopper. And even though he wasn't getting sacks, he was getting a lot of pressure and QB hits, and that's with his bum foot. Saying he is, at best, a top 10 DE is just incredibly wrong. He is arguably the best DE prospect in the last 20 years(yes, probably better than Peppers, blew out his combine numbers, and more productive final college season), Reggie is also a great great prospect, but VY wasn't even the surefire #1 QB. People had all three of the main ones going at 3rd overall. If Mario performs to his full potential, he will be just as good as Reggie, and as any football person can tell you, top-notch DE>>Top notch RB.

Ewing
09-01-2007, 05:44 PM
No, Mario, as a prospect is easily better than Young and arguably better than Bush. One third of the league had Mario rated #1. That's pretty good. So far, all three of them have shown dominance in one aspect of their position: Vince running, Reggie catching, and Mario stopping the run, all of them doing the "less important" task. Main difference is a RB who catches and a QB who runs get much more publicity. Shiver can chime in with more on the matter, as he read it in a book. But Mario, apparently was already a dominant run stopper. And even though he wasn't getting sacks, he was getting a lot of pressure and QB hits, and that's with his bum foot. Saying he is, at best, a top 10 DE is just incredibly wrong. He is arguably the best DE prospect in the last 20 years(yes, probably better than Peppers, blew out his combine numbers, and more productive final college season), Reggie is also a great great prospect, but VY wasn't even the surefire #1 QB. People had all three of the main ones going at 3rd overall. If Mario performs to his full potential, he will be just as good as Reggie, and as any football person can tell you, top-notch DE>>Top notch RB.

So let me get this straight you'd rather have a defensive end over a guy who has a chance to be the best player in the history of the game to touch a football(Bush). I'm glad you're not my GM.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-01-2007, 05:48 PM
Mario has potential to be the best DE ever. Yes, I'd take the best DE ever over the best RB ever. No brainer. Progression goes:

QB
LT
DE

RB is wayyy down the list. Even if he's the best ever.

Ewing
09-01-2007, 05:49 PM
Mario has potential to be the best DE ever. Yes, I'd take the best DE ever over the best RB ever. No brainer. Progression goes:

QB
LT
DE

RB is wayyy down the list. Even if he's the best ever.

You would take Deacon Jones over Jim Brown?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-01-2007, 05:54 PM
You would take Deacon Jones over Jim Brown?

Well, I haven't seen much of either, so if we were to make it say, Reggie White or Barry Sanders, then yes, I'd take Reggie over him. Reggie was dominant against the pass and the run. A RB can't touch the ball every play. DEs impact every play. As for Deacon Jones or Jim Brown, if Deacon Jones was a very dominant run defender, then yes I'd take him over Brown. RBs have a limited time of dominance. DEs can dominate from their entrance into the league, into their mid-late 30s, like Strahan.

Ewing
09-01-2007, 05:59 PM
Well, I haven't seen much of either, so if we were to make it say, Reggie White or Barry Sanders, then yes, I'd take Reggie over him. Reggie was dominant against the pass and the run. A RB can't touch the ball every play. DEs impact every play. As for Deacon Jones or Jim Brown, if Deacon Jones was a very dominant run defender, then yes I'd take him over Brown. RBs have a limited time of dominance. DEs can dominate from their entrance into the league, into their mid-late 30s, like Strahan.

Would you rather have a guy who owns the rushing record, rushing touchdowns record and yards per carry record or a guy who just owns the sack record?

I'll take a dominant back and average DE over a dominant DE and an average back every chance I get.

Sniper
09-01-2007, 06:08 PM
Unbelievable...Andrews at 50, Westbrook at 96, Lito at 172, McNabb at 72. Someone doesn't like the Eagles. Anthony Henry over Clinton Portis? Obviously it's too long to comment on the entire thing, but that's a horrible list

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-01-2007, 06:27 PM
Would you rather have a guy who owns the rushing record, rushing touchdowns record and yards per carry record or a guy who just owns the sack record?

I'll take a dominant back and average DE over a dominant DE and an average back every chance I get.

And you will also lose to my team every chance you get.

Ewing
09-01-2007, 06:32 PM
And you will also lose to my team every chance you get.

He departed as the NFL record holder for both single-season (1,863 in 1963) and career rushing (12,312 yards), as well as the all-time leader in rushing touchdowns (106), total touchdowns (126), and all-purpose yards (15,549). He was the first player ever to reach the 100-rushing-touchdowns milestone, and only a few others have done so since, despite the league's expansion to a 16-game season in 1978 (Brown's first four seasons were only 12 games, and his last five were 14 games). Brown also set a record by reaching the 100-touchdown milestone in only 93 games, which stood until LaDainian Tomlinson reached it in 89 games during the 2006 season. He still holds the career record for yards per carry by a running back (5.2), and total seasons leading the NFL in all-purpose yards (5: 1958-1961, 1964), and is the only rusher in NFL history to average over 100 yards per game for a career. Brown was also a superb receiver out of the backfield, catching 262 passes for 2,499 yards and 20 touchdowns. Every season he played, Brown was voted into the Pro Bowl, and he left the league in style by scoring three touchdowns in his final Pro Bowl game. Perhaps the most amazing feat is that Jim Brown accomplished these records despite never playing past 29 years of age.

Yeah, I'll take that over any defensive end you can name.

Sniper
09-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Maybe I'm a homer, but are there really 49 players you'd take before Shawn Andrews?

Ewing
09-03-2007, 04:20 AM
Maybe I'm a homer, but are there really 49 players you'd take before Shawn Andrews?

No. Only about twenty or so and maybe only Jammal Brown on the offensive line.

Sniper
09-03-2007, 06:41 AM
Would you rather have a guy who owns the rushing record, rushing touchdowns record and yards per carry record or a guy who just owns the sack record?

I'll take a dominant back and average DE over a dominant DE and an average back every chance I get.

Eh....I don't know.. If the average back has a great O-line, then he looks great and you have the beast DE.

P-L
09-03-2007, 09:18 AM
I'd take a borderline HOF player at RB and the greatest DE to ever play the game easily over a borderline HOF player at DE and the greatest RB to ever play.

smittyjs
09-03-2007, 12:04 PM
So let me get this straight you'd rather have a defensive end over a guy who has a chance to be the best player in the history of the game to touch a football(Bush). I'm glad you're not my GM.
This is my IMO, i would have had this as my top if i was the texans GM
Young> Williams>>>Bush
Bush just doesn't fit that offense to well, and pretty an RB and put up big #'s in that offense.

Ewing
09-03-2007, 01:50 PM
I'd take a borderline HOF player at RB and the greatest DE to ever play the game easily over a borderline HOF player at DE and the greatest RB to ever play.

I'm sorry but you would have be nuts to take Simeon Rice over Jim Brown or Barry Sanders.

BuckNaked
09-03-2007, 01:53 PM
I'm sorry but you would have be nuts to take Simeon Rice over Jim Brown or Barry Sanders.

Simeon Rice is the greatest DE to ever play?

Ewing
09-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Simeon Rice is the greatest DE to ever play?

No, he's implying that a borderline HoF DE is better than having the best running back ever to play the game.

Ewing
09-03-2007, 01:59 PM
Nevermind; I read it wrong. That's what happens when you've been up for sixteen hours straight.

Anyway, I'd take Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, and Walter Payton over Deacon Jones and Reggie White every chance I get. A DE is not going to score me points and drive the ball up field. Yeah, he'll stop drives but what's the point if I don't score?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-03-2007, 02:05 PM
Because he creates pressure and draws double teams in the run game, thus freeing up his teammates to make plays. A RB needs talent around him to succeed. A DE makes players look better than they are. Truly anyone with a more than base understanding of football would understand that.

SenorGato
09-03-2007, 02:07 PM
So let me get this straight you'd rather have a defensive end over a guy who has a chance to be the best player in the history of the game to touch a football(Bush). I'm glad you're not my GM.

Well...you'd have to agree with your idea that Bush will end up a better player than just about everyone in history.

GB12
09-03-2007, 02:10 PM
Nevermind; I read it wrong. That's what happens when you've been up for sixteen hours straight.

Anyway, I'd take Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, and Walter Payton over Deacon Jones and Reggie White every chance I get. A DE is not going to score me points and drive the ball up field. Yeah, he'll stop drives but what's the point if I don't score?
I don't know about you but I'm up for at least 16 hours every day...

SenorGato
09-03-2007, 02:13 PM
Nevermind; I read it wrong. That's what happens when you've been up for sixteen hours straight.

Anyway, I'd take Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, and Walter Payton over Deacon Jones and Reggie White every chance I get. A DE is not going to score me points and drive the ball up field. Yeah, he'll stop drives but what's the point if I don't score?

You're saying you're not going to score unless you have a HOF back?

Ewing
09-03-2007, 02:16 PM
Because he creates pressure and draws double teams in the run game, thus freeing up his teammates to make plays. A RB needs talent around him to succeed. A DE makes players look better than they are. Truly anyone with a more than base understanding of football would understand that.

Earl Campbell had one offensive linemen make the Pro Bowl while he was with the Oilers. I understand that DE's are incredibly important but to say that no matter what the greatest running back of all-time isn't as important to his team as the greatest DE of all-time is crazy.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-03-2007, 02:21 PM
Reggie White had 13 seasons of absolute dominance. Failing to register double digit sacks just twice in his first thirteen seasons. Earl Campbell played 8 years total, recording over 4 ypc 5 times and over 5 ypc just once.

Ewing
09-03-2007, 02:42 PM
You're comparing possibly the greatest DE ever to someone who just makes the top ten list of running backs. Compare what White did to what Jim Brown did.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-03-2007, 02:50 PM
The average life span of a RB in the NFL is like 3.5 years.I'll draft a DE before I draft a RB.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-03-2007, 02:54 PM
Only nine years of dominance. 13 is bigger than nine, and then when you factor in the importance factor of having a DE over an RB, and that Jim Brown didn't go up against any 6'5" 290 lb DEs, it's clear who would be the pick. All things being equal, except for one team having Jim Brown, and one team having Reggie White, Jim Brown would need a line to block for him, a QB to prevent the defense from stacking 9 in the box. Reggie White needs himself. He draws double teams, freeing up the front seven to make plays in the run game. If the opposing team can throw the ball, he is a large enough run stopping force that they don't need to bring the safeties down. And then when they're in 3rd and long situations, he can get at the QB with astonishing regularity.

Ewing
09-03-2007, 03:02 PM
Only nine years of dominance. 13 is bigger than nine, and then when you factor in the importance factor of having a DE over an RB, and that Jim Brown didn't go up against any 6'5" 290 lb DEs, it's clear who would be the pick. All things being equal, except for one team having Jim Brown, and one team having Reggie White, Jim Brown would need a line to block for him, a QB to prevent the defense from stacking 9 in the box. Reggie White needs himself. He draws double teams, freeing up the front seven to make plays in the run game. If the opposing team can throw the ball, he is a large enough run stopping force that they don't need to bring the safeties down. And then when they're in 3rd and long situations, he can get at the QB with astonishing regularity.

"You'd gang-tackled him, did what ever you could, give him extracurriculars. He'd get up slow, look at you, and walk back to the huddle and wouldn't say a word, just come at you again, and again." - Deacon Jones, 6'5, 272, regarded as the greatest DE to ever play the game.

mqtirishfan
09-03-2007, 04:02 PM
I don't see a RB as a very important part of a football team. You can easily get by with a good RB who fits your system to win your team a title. The last top-notch RB to play for a Super Bowl winning team was Marshall Faulk. (I'm discounting Bettis because he was a role player at the time he won his ring) A running game is super important, of course, but a top RB is not overly important for a top running game. A good scheme or O-line can make all the difference. Sure, if a guy like LT comes knocking on your door, you thank your lucky stars. However, if you think a DE can be as good as Reggie White was, you take him. A few years down the road, when both Bush and Williams are showing what they can do, you can decide who was better. If they both live up to their potential completely, Mario was the right choice.

Flyboy
09-03-2007, 04:29 PM
If they both live up to their potential completely, Mario was the right choice.

I disagree. If both live up to their potential, then Bush would have been the right choice but that's just me.

sdpads24
09-03-2007, 04:34 PM
All King can say about Gates is that he is a stronger Kellen Winslow? What a joke!!!

mqtirishfan
09-03-2007, 06:23 PM
All King can say about Gates is that he is a stronger Kellen Winslow? What a joke!!!


He means the original Kellen Winslow.

Shiver
09-03-2007, 09:49 PM
So let me get this straight you'd rather have a defensive end over a guy who has a chance to be the best player in the history of the game to touch a football(Bush). I'm glad you're not my GM.

What chance? I think his chances for that look like this: .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001%

Ewing
09-04-2007, 12:26 AM
What chance? I think his chances for that look like this: .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001%

You mean to tell me you don't like Reggie Bush? I never saw that one coming, Shiver. You really suprised me.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 12:40 AM
I cannot believe you actually what you typed that about Bush. At his best he still won't touch LaDainian Tomlinson, let alone 'greatest of all time.' That is simply an outlandish and silly statement to make. Even the Saints fans here wouldn't dream of making that argument. He would have to get on HGH, grow fifteen pounds of muscle and average 2,200 total yards and 15 touchdowns for the next ten years to justify a statement like that.

By the way, I like Reggie Bush. I think he can be a top-5 NFL RB if he makes the necessary improvements as a runner. I just don't think he's done anything to warrant the money and hype he's received thus far. He's good, but Maurice Jones-Drew is making a bigger impact for very little recognition and money. But if I keep seeing him compared to Hall of Fame players and mentioned as possibly being the "greatest of all time," I may have to change my stance to hate because this is getting beyond ridiculous.

Ewing
09-04-2007, 12:53 AM
I cannot believe you actually what you typed that about Bush. At his best he still won't touch LaDainian Tomlinson, let alone 'greatest of all time.' That is simply an outlandish and silly statement to make. Even the Saints fans here wouldn't dream of making that argument. He would have to get on HGH, grow fifteen pounds of muscle and average 2,200 total yards and 15 touchdowns for the next ten years to justify a statement like that.

By the way, I like Reggie Bush. I just don't think he's done anything to warrant the money and hype he's received thus far. He's good, but Maurice Jones-Drew is making a bigger impact for very little recognition and money. But if I keep seeing him compared to Hall of Fame players and mentioned as possibly being the "greatest of all time," I may have to change my stance to hate because this is getting beyond ridiculous.

I said potential to be the best player ever. Hasn't done anything good? Go check out what he did in college and it's incredible. You honestly didn't think he had that potential coming out of college? Yeah his preformance in 06 could have been better but he was only a rookie and showed flashes of greatness. If you're going to say that Bush having a chance of being the best ever is completely insane then why not say the same for Mario Williams?

Shiver
09-04-2007, 12:59 AM
I said potential to be the best player ever. Hasn't done anything good? Go check out what he did in college and it's incredible. You honestly didn't think he had that potential coming out of college? Yeah his preformance in 06 could have been better but he was only a rookie and showed flashes of greatness.

Nothing good enough. He's been good, but nothing worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, getting paid 50$ Million and getting tons of ads? They might as well enshrine him in Canton, give him a bust and the next ten M.V.P trophies while we're at it.

If you're going to say that Bush having a chance of being the best ever is completely insane then why not say the same for Mario Williams?Have I ever said that he would be? The arguing point you're missing is Mario Williams is just as likely to be the best at his position as Reggie Bush is. Neither is going to be that good, even though both are talented.

Flyboy
09-04-2007, 01:07 AM
Nothing good enough. He's been good, but nothing worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, getting paid 50$ Million and getting tons of ads? They might as well enshrine him in Canton, give him a bust and the next ten M.V.P trophies while we're at it.

I actually compare Reggie Bush very much so to LeBron James. Coming from high school and completely dominating the competition, his jump to the NBA was very much like Bush coming to the NFL. People were already claiming James to be the next MJ (Michael Jordan AND Magic Johnson) and it bothered me too. But, James has shown that he deserved to the hype he was getting. It's what the media does -- they hype up players and considering what Bush did at USC, it's hard not to claim him to be the next coming. And, while I can see how that can rub people the wrong way, it's their job. So, yes, until Bush lives up to his potential of being the next great player in the league the knobslobbing can be annoying but it's still warranted to a small degree.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 01:07 AM
No, Mario, as a prospect is easily better than Young and arguably better than Bush. One third of the league had Mario rated #1. That's pretty good. So far, all three of them have shown dominance in one aspect of their position: Vince running, Reggie catching, and Mario stopping the run, all of them doing the "less important" task. Main difference is a RB who catches and a QB who runs get much more publicity. Shiver can chime in with more on the matter, as he read it in a book. But Mario, apparently was already a dominant run stopper. And even though he wasn't getting sacks, he was getting a lot of pressure and QB hits, and that's with his bum foot. Saying he is, at best, a top 10 DE is just incredibly wrong. He is arguably the best DE prospect in the last 20 years(yes, probably better than Peppers, blew out his combine numbers, and more productive final college season), Reggie is also a great great prospect, but VY wasn't even the surefire #1 QB. People had all three of the main ones going at 3rd overall. If Mario performs to his full potential, he will be just as good as Reggie, and as any football person can tell you, top-notch DE>>Top notch RB.


I would like to add to this that every draft expert said that any other year Mario Williams would have been the slam dunk #1 overall pick, without question, he was so great. It's just he came out against two also superbly talented players, except they had the benefit of the media monster hyping them up and he didn't. To say he only has the potential to be a "top-10 DE" is absurd. I could say the same things, justifiably, about Bush and Young. Bush can't run, Young can't pass, Williams can't sack. Let's all resort to generalizations and hyperbole shall we?

Ewing
09-04-2007, 01:09 AM
Nothing good enough. He's been good, but nothing worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, getting paid 50$ Million and getting tons of ads? They might as well enshrine him in Canton, give him a bust and the next ten M.V.P trophies while we're at it.

Bush comes out of his college after one of the most incredible seasons in the history of game while playing for a team that was trying to win three straight national championships. You don't expect him to get drafted high with a huge signing bonus? You really think that he shouldn't have gotten any type of endorsements? If that's the case then every incredible prospect shouldn't have gotten any kind of hype. Let's take away LeBron James' endorsements while we're at it.

Reggie Bush deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk as far as potential goes because he has a strong chance of being that good. Is he already on that level? Of course not but no running back in recent memory has had the same type of potential Bush has.

Have I ever said that he would be? The arguing point you're missing is Mario Williams is just as likely to be the best at his position as Reggie Bush is. Neither is going to be that good, even though both are talented.

Mario Williams has a good chance but Bush's potential is just so incredible that's it hard to deny it. I've acknowledged that Williams is going to be good I just don't think you take him over Bush and Young. To me, it sounds like you're only hating on Bush because he plays for a division rival.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 01:10 AM
I actually compare Reggie Bush very much so to LeBron James. Coming from high school and completely dominating the competition, his jump to the NBA was very much like Bush coming to the NFL. People were already claiming James to be the next MJ (Michael Jordan AND Magic Johnson) and it bothered me too. But, James has shown that he deserved to the hype he was getting. It's what the media does -- they hype up players and considering what Bush did at USC, it's hard not to claim him to be the next coming. And, while I can see how that can rub people the wrong way, it's their job. So, yes, until Bush lives up to his potential of being the next great player in the league the knobslobbing can be annoying but it's still warranted to a small degree.

I can understand the media doing that, but I don't understand why fans are so mesmerized. It isn't their job to put him into Canton already. Let him prove himself in the NFL, the big boys league, first. That is all I want.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 01:17 AM
Bush comes out of his college after one of the most incredible seasons in the history of game while playing for a team that was trying to win three straight national championships. You don't expect him to get drafted high with a huge signing bonus? You really think that he shouldn't have gotten any type of endorsements? If that's the case then every incredible prospect shouldn't have gotten any kind of hype. Let's take away LeBron James' endorsements while we're at it.

I understand all of that. That doesn't mean that he's earned it based on his performance in the NFL.

Reggie Bush deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk as far as potential goes because he has a strong chance of being that good. Is he already on that level? Of course not but no running back in recent memory has had the same type of potential Bush has.He's a mere 200-lbs, who has never had to shoulder the load as a feature RB. To say he has a "strong" chance of being hall of fame good is absurdly presumptuous. I don't think he will ever have Steven Jackson (1,528-806-16) and Frank Gore (1695-485-9) caliber seasons, let alone Sayers, Sanders and Faulk. I'm not the only one here who thinks that. P-L is highly respected and he wouldn't put Bush as a top-20 offensive player in today's NFL.

Mario Williams has a good chance but Bush's potential is just so incredible that's it hard to deny it. I've acknowledged that Williams is going to be good I just don't think you take him over Bush and Young. That's alright. I don't blame you for stating that in your opinion the Texans should have taken Bush or Young. To make it sound as if Mario Williams wasn't an elite prospect and that it was a no-brainer is where I cannot allow that to slide. It simply isn't true. Not when 25% of the NFL, and even Hall of Fame coaches, said otherwise.

To me, it sounds like you're only hating on Bush because he plays for a division rival.I said, after the combine, that the Texans should think about taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. Well before he was a Saint. Being a division rival has no impact on my thoughts. When the infamous Osi > Peppers thing was going on, I was one of the guys who stood up for Peppers the most.

Ewing
09-04-2007, 01:26 AM
I understand all of that. That doesn't mean that he's earned it based on his performance in the NFL.

Keep in mind he's in a two back system so he's not going to get as many touches to show us what he can do. Yeah, his YPC could have been better but he's still learning how to read NFL defenses. Once he gets a hold of it there's no stopping him.

He's a mere 200-lbs, who has never had to shoulder the load as a feature RB. To say he has a "strong" chance of being hall of fame good is absurdly presumptuous. I have my doubts he will ever have Steven Jackson and Frank Gore caliber seasons, let alone Sayers, Sanders and Faulk.

Barry Sanders was 203 lbs.

That's alright. I don't blame you for stating that in your opinion the Texans should have taken Bush or Young. To make it sound as if Mario Williams wasn't an elite prospect and that it was a no-brainer is where I cannot allow that to slide. It simply isn't true. Not when 25% of the NFL, and even Hall of Fame coaches, said otherwise. I said, after the combine, that the Texans should think about taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. Well before he was a Saint.

Mario Williams was an elite prospect I just don't think he was as good as a prospect as Young or Bush. I had him ranked third in the draft. Pretty much any other year I would draft him first overall but the Texans needed a running back and a quarterback. Vince is loved by everyone in Houston and to pass him up when have a chance to make him your franchise quarterback for the next decade is just stupid. Go take a look at Vince's touchdown run against the Texans. Every fan in the stadium is on their feet cheering him. Here's how you can tell you botched a draft choice. If your fans are cheering the rival's pick in your stadium.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 01:35 AM
Two things:

Once they extended Carr, which was a horrible decision mind you, Young was no longer an option. Besides, it isn't as if he was or is a sure thing. He was the biggest gamble in the entire draft. He still hasn't proven himself yet. His future is more up in the air than Bush and Williams. At the least we know Bush will be an excellent receiver and a change of pace RB and Williams will be a dominant run defender with occasional pass rushing skills. We don't know if Vince Young will ever develop as a true NFL Quarterback. What running QB has ever done anything in the NFL? They shine bright for a few years, but eventually burn out fast when the hits take their toll and they cannot win consistently from the pocket. Even Randall Cunningham, who had a few great passing seasons (3,466-30/13) fell from his M.V.P status quickly when injuries sapped him of his abilities. I think Young's upside is Cunningham's prime and Michael Vick as his downside.

Secondly: you never answered my question. Do you think Reggie Bush can have better seasons than what Steven Jackson (1528-806-16) did last year? If he cannot do that, how can he be mentioned as a "strong" candidate to be Hall of Fame good?

SenorGato
09-04-2007, 01:46 AM
Keep in mind he's in a two back system so he's not going to get as many touches to show us what he can do. Yeah, his YPC could have been better but he's still learning how to read NFL defenses. Once he gets a hold of it there's no stopping him.



Barry Sanders was 203 lbs.



Mario Williams was an elite prospect I just don't think he was as good as a prospect as Young or Bush. I had him ranked third in the draft. Pretty much any other year I would draft him first overall but the Texans needed a running back and a quarterback. Vince is loved by everyone in Houston and to pass him up when have a chance to make him your franchise quarterback for the next decade is just stupid. Go take a look at Vince's touchdown run against the Texans. Every fan in the stadium is on their feet cheering him. Here's how you can tell you botched a draft choice. If your fans are cheering the rival's pick in your stadium.

Sanders was 203 on a 5'8 body.

Plus...the guys legs were ridiculous:

http://www.wvu.edu/~physed/blacksports/fall2002/sandersb.jpg

If anyone deserves a comp to Sanders (except a harder runner) it's MJD.

Ewing
09-04-2007, 01:48 AM
Two things:

Once they extended Carr, which was a horrible decision mind you, Young was no longer an option. Besides, it isn't as if he was or is a sure thing. He was the biggest gamble in the entire draft. He still hasn't proven himself yet. His future is more up in the air than Bush and Williams. At the least we know Bush will be an excellent receiver and a change of pace RB and Williams will be a dominant run defender with occasional pass rushing skills. We don't know if Vince Young will ever develop as a true NFL Quarterback. What running QB has ever done anything in the NFL? They shine bright for a few years, but eventually burn out fast when the hits take their toll and they cannot win consistently from the pocket. Even Randall Cunningham, who had a few great passing seasons (3,466-30/13) never won anything before the inevitable injuries sapped him of his abilities.

Yeah they extended Carr which is why he's still there. Oh wait a minute they cut him not even twelve months after drafting Mario Williams. Still hasn't proven himself? He won Rookie Of The Year for crying out loud. What more do you want out of a guy? Yeah, his passing needs improving but it doesn't change the fact that he's good. Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton did pretty well for themselves. I like to consider Vince a mix of Steve and Cunningham. Cunningham's lack of success can really be blamed by the lack of talent around him and poor coaching while in Philly. He still had some pretty good years passing but you have to look at his combined passing and running stats to see how good he really was.

Secondly: you never answered my question. Do you think Reggie Bush can have better seasons than what Steven Jackson (1528-806-16) did last year? If he cannot do that, how can he be mentioned as a "strong" candidate to be Hall of Fame good?

Yes, I think Reggie Bush can have a season just as good as Jackson did last year. If Barry Sanders can put up 2,000 yards at three pounds heavier than Reggie Bush then who says he can't do it?

SenorGato
09-04-2007, 01:51 AM
Yeah they extended Carr which is why he's still there. Oh wait a minute they cut him not even twelve months after drafting Mario Williams. Still hasn't proven himself? He won Rookie Of The Year for crying out loud. What more do you want out of a guy? Yeah, his passing needs improving but it doesn't change the fact that he's good. Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton did pretty well for themselves. I like to consider Vince a mix of Steve and Cunningham. Cunningham's lack of success can really be blamed by the lack of talent around him and poor coaching while in Philly. He still had some pretty good years passing but you have to look at his combined passing and running stats to see how good he really was.



Yes, I think Reggie Bush can have a season just as good as Jackson did last year. If Barry Sanders can put up 2,000 yards at three pounds heavier than Reggie Bush then who says he can't do it?

Body type > Raw size

Bush may be similarly sized (weight wise) but he and Sanders have very, very different builds.

It's a very big deal. Sanders' low height and huge legs gave him amazing balance. Bush's body type is well...it's very rare for a full time RB.

Shiver
09-04-2007, 01:52 AM
Yeah they extended Carr which is why he's still there. Oh wait a minute they cut him not even twelve months after drafting Mario Williams. Still hasn't proven himself? He won Rookie Of The Year for crying out loud. What more do you want out of a guy? Yeah, his passing needs improving but it doesn't change the fact that he's good. Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton did pretty well for themselves. I like to consider Vince a mix of Steve and Cunningham. Cunningham's lack of success can really be blamed by the lack of talent around him and poor coaching while in Philly. He still had some pretty good years passing but you have to look at his combined passing and running stats to see how good he really was.

As I said, extending Carr was moronic. No arguments there.

Yes he won ROTY, but that doesn't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things. If he doesn't progress as a passer than no one will consider his rookie season a great success.

Isn't Tennessee's starting WRs Roydell Williams and Eric Moulds?

Yes, I think Reggie Bush can have a season just as good as Jackson did last year.I will hold you to that.

If Barry Sanders can put up 2,000 yards at three pounds heavier than Reggie Bush then who says he can't do it?Maybe because Barry Sanders is well beyond Reggie Bush in terms of agility, vision and overall rushing ability. He had the most amazing collegiate season a RB has ever had and came into the NFL and had 1,470 yards on 5.2 YPC on a sad Detriot Lions football team. Whereas Reggie Bush was outran by Maroney, Addai, Jones-Drew and Norwood. Not to mention that his 200-lbs is on a 5'8" frame, not 5'11" 7/8 like Reggie Bush is.

Flyboy
09-05-2007, 10:54 AM
The multi-skilled runner is the wild card in the Saints' offense, Colts Coach Tony Dungy said.

"He's like Barry Sanders," Dungy said, "but he's more involved in the passing game, and he's in more positions and more places."

"Probably (former Colts and Rams back) Marshall (Faulk) is the best comparison of a guy who can catch the ball, hurt you in the passing game as well as running," he said. "He runs reverses and catches screens and catches the ball out of the backfield and lines up as a wide receiver. It's very similar to playing against Marshall."


Stupid Tony Dungy. Overhyping players and the like. Ugh.

Sniper
09-05-2007, 11:27 AM
It's a good thing players never improve and we write them off after one season...Imagine if there was potential to improve as you pick up the nuances of the game...

Shiver
09-05-2007, 12:07 PM
Stupid Tony Dungy. Overhyping players and the like. Ugh.


You do realize that coaches always over hype opposing players the week before a game, right? No coach has ever said anything negative about an opposing player prior to the game. I've heard plenty of lofty praise of Michael Vick, as a passer, from coaches like Jon Gruden and John Fox.

Trust me, if Reggie Bush goes for 1,200 and 800 this year I will no longer criticize such lofty comparisons. I need to see it first, before I join in on the bandwagon. With him and Vince Young.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-06-2007, 10:38 PM
Wow, the NFL has no talent. You'd think a top 20 player would do well against an abysmal defense.


TAKE IT AWAY COMMIE.

comahan
09-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Wow, the NFL has no talent. You'd think a top 20 player would do well against an abysmal defense.


TAKE IT AWAY COMMIE.

apparently your definition of "doing well" is different than mine. 12 carries for 38 yards, and 4 catches for 6 yards is superstar esque.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-06-2007, 10:44 PM
apparently your definition of "doing well" is different than mine. 12 carries for 38 yards, and 4 catches for 6 yards is superstar esque.


I was talking about Brees... Reggie dominated the game. Made Barry Sanders look like a chump, and Marshall Faulk look like a little girl.

comahan
09-06-2007, 10:46 PM
I was talking about Brees... Reggie dominated the game. Made Barry Sanders look like a chump, and Marshall Faulk look like a little girl.

Blimey. I stand corrected.

Shiver
09-06-2007, 11:01 PM
apparently your definition of "doing well" is different than mine. 12 carries for 38 yards, and 4 catches for 6 yards is superstar esque.


'He will definitely outperform what Steven Jackson did last year. (2300 yards and 16 touchdowns)'

LOL

mqtirishfan
09-06-2007, 11:11 PM
'He will definitely outperform what Steven Jackson did last year. (2300 yards and 16 touchdowns)'

LOL

Be fair, now. He had to run against the likes of Freddy Keiaho, Rob Morris, Freeney, Mathis, Raheem Brock, and Ed Johnson!!!!

I bet LT would even be trembling from that all-star group of run stuffers.

Shiver
09-06-2007, 11:13 PM
The multi-skilled runner is the wild card in the Saints' offense, Colts Coach Tony Dungy said.

"He's like Barry Sanders," Dungy said, "but he's more involved in the passing game, and he's in more positions and more places."

"Probably (former Colts and Rams back) Marshall (Faulk) is the best comparison of a guy who can catch the ball, hurt you in the passing game as well as running," he said. "He runs reverses and catches screens and catches the ball out of the backfield and lines up as a wide receiver. It's very similar to playing against Marshall."


Stupid Tony Dungy. Overhyping players and the like. Ugh.

You do realize that coaches always over hype opposing players the week before a game, right? No coach has ever said anything negative about an opposing player prior to the game. I've heard plenty of lofty praise of Michael Vick, as a passer, from coaches like Jon Gruden and John Fox.

Told you so.

Sniper
09-06-2007, 11:22 PM
Told you so.

YES! Reggie Bush clearly sucks after a season and one game! Let us write him off now and never speak of him again! Give me a ******* break. You guys are speed demons when it comes to calling players busts and writing them off.

Shiver
09-06-2007, 11:24 PM
Read what I actually posted (and what I quoted) before you make a fool of yourself.

P-L
09-06-2007, 11:28 PM
Too be fair, Deuce McAlister looked almost as bad against the same Indy defense.

comahan
09-06-2007, 11:32 PM
Too be fair, Deuce McAlister looked almost as bad against the same Indy defense.

Yes, but Deuce isnt the GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL!~

BigDawg819
09-06-2007, 11:33 PM
Yes, but Deuce isnt the GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL!~

Nope just the 1st RB on the Saints.....

comahan
09-06-2007, 11:49 PM
Nope just the 1st RB on the Saints.....

And easily the better of the duo. I love Deuce.

Shiver
09-06-2007, 11:52 PM
By far. Deuce was a top-5 NFL RB when he was healthy. I think they are too enamored with getting Bush touches to the detriment of Deuce McAllister's power running game. He is even a solid pass receiver, he did have 69 catches not too long ago.

BigDawg819
09-06-2007, 11:58 PM
By far. Deuce was a top-5 NFL RB when he was healthy. I think they are too enamored with getting Bush touches to the detriment of Deuce McAllister's power running game. He is even a solid pass receiver, he did have 69 catches not too long ago.

Me and ERU have talked at length about how Reggie Bush would be better suited as a WR as opposed to a RB.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-07-2007, 10:32 AM
I actually agree with that BigDawg. If he can't hit the 4+ ypc this year, I say why not try him out as a slot playmaking WR? They can give him reverses, since he's actually good at running those. There's no denying his athleticism, he could get open on slot CBs and LBs or Ss.

And Sniper, you think this ridiculousness of writing him off is in any way due to the sheer ridiculousness of touting him as possibly the best ever before he's done jack?

marks01234
09-07-2007, 11:16 AM
Nobody is writing Bush off yet.

Just pointing out that right now he isn't even a top 200 NFL player, much less top 20.

As for the list, it lacks a lot OL's. Spent about 15 minutes looking for Sean Locklear from the Seahawks but couldn't find him amongst the backup QB's and RB's.

jkpigskin
09-07-2007, 11:38 AM
laron better than dawan? let him play a nfl game 1st

The Great Jonathan Vilma
09-07-2007, 12:04 PM
Too be fair, Deuce McAlister looked almost as bad against the same Indy defense.

i didn't think duece actually looked that bad. he got stuffed 2 times in the backfield i believe from poor blocking, but other than that i thought he did well when he got touches. those 2 plays dropped his ypc, but he did only get what...10 or 12 carries?

smittyjs
09-08-2007, 07:38 PM
As I said, extending Carr was moronic. No arguments there.

Yes he won ROTY, but that doesn't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things. If he doesn't progress as a passer than no one will consider his rookie season a great success.

Isn't Tennessee's starting WRs Roydell Williams and Eric Moulds?

I will hold you to that.

Maybe because Barry Sanders is well beyond Reggie Bush in terms of agility, vision and overall rushing ability. He had the most amazing collegiate season a RB has ever had and came into the NFL and had 1,470 yards on 5.2 YPC on a sad Detriot Lions football team. Whereas Reggie Bush was outran by Maroney, Addai, Jones-Drew and Norwood. Not to mention that his 200-lbs is on a 5'8" frame, not 5'11" 7/8 like Reggie Bush is.
We are starting Bradon Jones and Moulds, also i agree with your post about Bush.

Sniper
09-08-2007, 07:46 PM
And Sniper, you think this ridiculousness of writing him off is in any way due to the sheer ridiculousness of touting him as possibly the best ever before he's done jack?

No, you're just being ridiculous. Heaven forbid Reggie Bush doesn't produce what we expect of him right away. First off, he still had 1,300 total yards last year. Second of all, if you can legitimately tell me that Colston, McCalister, Henderson etc.... would have had the same type of year without Reggie getting so much attention you're being ridiculous. Like it or not, he does have the potential to be the best ever. Let's let him play a couple years before we call him a bust shall we?

gpngc
09-08-2007, 07:56 PM
OK. I didn't read this internet version, but I know for a fact that in the original SI version, Willis McGahee was not included.

107. Chad Pennington QB, Jets All he does is complete passes

T.O. gets "Stop dropping the ball -- please" and Maroney gets "Durability might be a concern" and Pennington gets that?

Shiver
09-08-2007, 09:17 PM
No, you're just being ridiculous. Heaven forbid Reggie Bush doesn't produce what we expect of him right away. First off, he still had 1,300 total yards last year. Second of all, if you can legitimately tell me that Colston, McCalister, Henderson etc.... would have had the same type of year without Reggie getting so much attention you're being ridiculous. Like it or not, he does have the potential to be the best ever. Let's let him play a couple years before we call him a bust shall we?


No one is calling him a "bust." When people say that he has the "potential to be the best ever" it makes it so easy to trash Reggie Bush. He is being grossly overrated and like njx said his cult will continue to call him the greatest without any evidence to back it up.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 12:50 PM
even when I say Cutler is the second coming of Jesus, I have tons of evidence to support it. Ask DG or sarf.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Dear Ewing,

Touchdown count:

Reggie Bush- 0.
Mario Williams- 1.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Dear Ewing,

Touchdown count:

Reggie Bush- 0.
Mario Williams- 1.

Only took Williams 17 games to do something...against a piss-poor O-line.

comahan
09-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Only took Williams 17 games to do something...against a piss-poor O-line.

Typical uninformed response. Congrats.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 04:31 PM
Typical uninformed response. Congrats.

Oh boy, I spoke against your boy. Yes, Williams had plantar fasciatis, we know. Please do tell me what studly games he had last year

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 04:33 PM
It's been 17 and counting for Bush to get a run over 20 yards. Mario just took his touch 42 to the house.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 04:40 PM
It's been 17 and counting for Bush to get a run over 20 yards. Mario just took his touch 42 to the house.

It's a good thing Reggie never catches the ball too.

draftguru151
09-09-2007, 04:47 PM
It's a good thing Reggie never catches the ball too.

Most seem to ignore what Williams did in the running game, might as well ignore what Bush does in the passing game.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 04:48 PM
It's a good thing Mario isn't one of the better run defenders in the league either, or that he never ever came close to getting sacks or creating pressure without actually getting the sack, which is also important. whenever he beat the OL, he made the sack, which was only like 4 times last year.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 05:07 PM
It's a good thing Mario isn't one of the better run defenders in the league either, or that he never ever came close to getting sacks or creating pressure without actually getting the sack, which is also important. whenever he beat the OL, he made the sack, which was only like 4 times last year.

So then, Williams still hasn't been as good as advertised, neither has Reggie.

Reggie's running=Mario's pass rushing
Reggie's receiving=Mario's run defense

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 05:11 PM
I dunno, today Mario was pretty beast, if it wasn't a total fluke I think his pass rushing would eclipse Reggie's running. And, IMO, run stopping is more important than receiving, but let's just forget that for the sake of argument. how much hype has Mario really received? If it's arguable at this point that Mario is equal to Reggie, Mario has eclipsed most expectations. All we've heard is what a mistake it was. How he would never live up to Reggie or VY. Well he just had a better week than either of them, easily.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 05:13 PM
I dunno, today Mario was pretty beast, if it wasn't a total fluke I think his pass rushing would eclipse Reggie's running. And, IMO, run stopping is more important than receiving, but let's just forget that for the sake of argument. how much hype has Mario really received? If it's arguable at this point that Mario is equal to Reggie, Mario has eclipsed most expectations. All we've heard is what a mistake it was. How he would never live up to Reggie or VY. Well he just had a better week than either of them, easily.

Maybe, but VY and Bush had better YEARS than Williams did last year

draftguru151
09-09-2007, 05:30 PM
Maybe, but VY and Bush had better YEARS than Williams did last year

So then, Williams still hasn't been as good as advertised, neither has Reggie.

Reggie's running=Mario's pass rushing
Reggie's receiving=Mario's run defense

How so? You said yourself they were even.

marks01234
09-10-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure that Bush or Vince Young had a better year than Mario last year. Remember the Titans and Saints fit their schemes around Young and Bush, playing to their strengths. The Titans did almost the complete opposite, having Mario play both end positions and some tackle to help their overall defensive system.

And Mario flat out dominated yesterday. His two sacks, he beat double teams and he was close to having two more. The FR was just icing on the cake. Barring some amazing performance tonight, he'll be defensive player of the week.

At this point, neither Reggie Bush or Vince Young has had that good of a complete game.

Ewing
09-10-2007, 12:02 PM
'He will definitely outperform what Steven Jackson did last year. (2300 yards and 16 touchdowns)'

LOL

When did I say he would definitely outperform Steven Jackson this year? I said I think he can put up a season like Steven Jackson did last year. It's still going to take awhile but your endless hating of Bush is getting really ****ing tired.

Addict
09-10-2007, 12:15 PM
When did I say he would definitely outperform Steven Jackson this year? I said I think he can put up a season like Steven Jackson did last year. It's still going to take awhile but your endless hating of Bush is getting really ****ing tired.

you'll find haters for anyone anytime, so don't bother getting angry.

Shiver
09-10-2007, 12:54 PM
When did I say he would definitely outperform Steven Jackson this year? I said I think he can put up a season like Steven Jackson did last year. It's still going to take awhile but your endless hating of Bush is getting really ****ing tired.


I will stop "hating" on Reggie Bush when people stop anointing him as a Hall of Fame caliber player.

Geo
09-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Who put Bush in Canton? Salisbury?

Shiver
09-10-2007, 01:01 PM
Who put Bush in Canton? Salisbury?

Several people in this thread, sad to say.

LonghornsLegend
09-10-2007, 01:11 PM
how did okoye look? because the texans d line is gonna be beastly in general if everyone meets their potential

Ewing
09-10-2007, 01:48 PM
I will stop "hating" on Reggie Bush when people stop anointing him as a Hall of Fame caliber player.

I said Bush has a very good shot of becoming a Hall of Fame caliber player. Honestly, it seems to me that if Bush were on the Falcons you would be praising him to high heaven but because he's on a division rival you're constantly bashing the guy in every thread about him.

Shiver
09-10-2007, 01:52 PM
Yep, that is the only reason... What about P-L? What about njx? What about CutlerChris? What about BBD? How can you dismiss their opinions with blanket accusations of bias?

Ewing
09-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Yep, that is the only reason... What about P-L? What about njx? What about CutlerChris? What about BBD? How can you dismiss their opinions with blanket accusations of bias?

Because they aren't doing it in every single thread that might involve Reggie Bush.

Vikes99ej
09-10-2007, 01:55 PM
Right now I'm having trouble seeing why a running back like Bush is taken 2nd in the draft, and Adrian Peterson is taken 7th :D

Turtlepower
09-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Can anyone answer me which week is it? I think people are forgetting that this is 2007, not 2020...

Shiver
09-10-2007, 01:59 PM
Because they aren't doing it in every single thread that might involve Reggie Bush.


Actually, yes they do. P-L is the one who spoke out initially in this thread, not me. njx trashed him in his pick 'em predictions. BBD said in his NFL truths that Mario Williams would justify the Texans' pick. It is hardly just me here. A lot of people think Reggie Bush being anointed as the next great Sanders/Sayers/Faulk before he's done anything in the NFL is ridiculous.


It has nothing to do with him being on the Saints. I said back at the '06 combine that the Texans should think about taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. I think Deuce McAllister, Drew Brees, Marques Colston are all great and they are Saints. I have never, ever said Reggie Bush was either a bust or a bad player. I only have to speak up because people egregiously overrate and over hype him.

Shiver
09-17-2007, 02:03 AM
Week 2 has passed and the Reggie Bush hall-of-fame bandwagon rolls on.

fenikz
09-17-2007, 02:08 AM
Fitz is 58 and Boldin doesn't even make the top 100?

Turtlepower
09-17-2007, 02:11 AM
Fitz is 58 and Boldin doesn't even make the top 100?

It's Peter King. I bet he would put Jeff George in the top-10 if he returned to football.

Dam8610
09-17-2007, 02:12 AM
It's Peter King. I bet he would put Jeff George in the top-10 if he returned to football.

Peter King became Jason Whitlock? When?

VY10
09-17-2007, 08:02 PM
Reggie Bush at 19... Are you F#$%ing kidding me?