PDA

View Full Version : Michigan


Sniper
09-02-2007, 06:21 AM
How much does the loss to ASU impact recruiting? If I'm a guy considering Michigan and I play D, I can't commit there fast enough haha. They need speed and playmakers, especially in the secondary. Boubacar Cissoko, Warren and Williams are all good starts, but there's a need for more. So how much do you guys think it affects things since it probably means Carr is gone.

JoeMontainya
09-03-2007, 02:08 PM
Why couldnt you commit fast enough? Michigan is KNOWN for not developing top talent over the last 5 years. They have top 10 recruiting classes every year but their overall record and performance never reflects it of late.

D players go to OSU, underachievers go to scUM.

Chad Henne = Steve Bellisari

How many of you Michigan fans still think he is the best QB in the country?

Sniper
09-03-2007, 02:13 PM
Why couldnt you commit fast enough? Michigan is KNOWN for not developing top talent over the last 5 years. They have top 10 recruiting classes every year but their overall record and performance never reflects it of late.

D players go to OSU, underachievers go to scUM.

Chad Henne = Steve Bellisari

How many of you Michigan fans still think he is the best QB in the country?

Considering none of us thought he was the best, I'll say none.

JoeMontainya
09-03-2007, 02:19 PM
Considering none of us thought he was the best, I'll say none.

Wow someone ate Crow? I hear this stuff all summer on the college boards before they got deleated.

Back to the subject (I apologize for trailing off)

recruiting:
No recruit in their right mind would want to play deffense for Michigan unless they are just a huge fan of the school right now. They are no producing the talent like a powerhouse school should.

DoWnThEfiElD
09-03-2007, 02:50 PM
The true test will be how we come out next week. If this is going to be the tone of our season then it will negatively impact recruiting, however if we get our act together and play how we are capiable of playing for the rest of the season it should be fine.

JM- nobody here puts any stock into anything you say. Your posts are meaningless about Mich football. You have no credability.

P-L
09-03-2007, 03:57 PM
If you ignore trolls, they go away. If you keep feeding them, they'll come back for more.

keylime_5
09-03-2007, 05:42 PM
I don't think the poor defensive play is gonna lure defensive recruits. Ohio State, USC, and LSU always are stacked on D and recruit great defensive players. That's how the trend works, not the other way around. But I don't think the loss to ASU will really effect UM recruting much except for this:
Lloyd Carr is gonna retire or resign after the year more likely than not, even if he had beaten ASU he probably would've. Teams changing coaches always hurts recruting, recruits don't like it when one coaching staff promises them something and then another staff comes in and promises something else. This will especially hurt fringe recruits who are considering Michigan but are torn between them and other schools just as much.

NDfootball
09-03-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't think the loss will affect UM too much, most guys commit because because they like the atmosphere, coaching staff, and the facilities. If Carr leaves and the next head coach isn't from his staff, they might lose some recruits though.

A loss is a loss, it happens sometimes, as long as UM doesn't implode this year i.e. 5 or less wins, it probably is a non issue for recruits.

JoeMontainya
09-06-2007, 04:25 PM
If you ignore trolls, they go away. If you keep feeding them, they'll come back for more.

Wow, theres a difference between a troll and an Ohio State fan being glad that Michigan lost. But since you guys are the losers I will shut up because no matter what OSU will never embarrass our conference like you guys did.

And you can say Fire Lloyd carr all you want but there comes a point where Michigan players should just beat a Div 2 school no matter who the coach is. Your players arent as good as you like to think.

Xiomera
09-06-2007, 04:33 PM
Wow, theres a difference between a troll and an Ohio State fan being glad that Michigan lost. But since you guys are the losers I will shut up because no matter what OSU will never embarrass our conference like you guys did.

And you can say Fire Lloyd carr all you want but there comes a point where Michigan players should just beat a Div 2 school no matter who the coach is. Your players arent as good as you like to think.

Anyone else hear all that hot air that seems to be inflating this guys head? It's freakin' loud, and I am in need of some sleep.

Vikes99ej
09-06-2007, 04:36 PM
Anyone else hear all that hot air that seems to be inflating this guys head? It's freakin' loud, and I am in need of some sleep.

I remember the National Championship game from last year.

DChess
09-06-2007, 04:36 PM
its not the fact they lost to asu, its the fact that they have no idea who there coach is going to be when they get there. going into a situation like that is hard, mainly because you dont know the scheme, which makes you think how you would be utilized, and maybe the new coach will run a defense that doesnt get you enough opportunities to make plays.

that being said, they are Michigan, and i don't think it will hurt a lot but there defitnaly will be a slight drop off.

Vikes99ej
09-06-2007, 04:40 PM
I don't think that one loss will hurt their recruiting, if they can come back and play angry for the rest of the season.

DChess
09-06-2007, 04:44 PM
I don't think that one loss will hurt their recruiting, if they can come back and play angry for the rest of the season.

if asu can put up 30+, imagine what an offense like oregon can do, its going to be a high scoring game, no doubt about it.

Vikes99ej
09-06-2007, 04:47 PM
I'm not sure if that game was just a fluke, with Michigan just not being mentally prepared, or if their defense is just that bad. Just looking at it, their defense should be in the upper-tier of the Big Ten.

soybean
09-06-2007, 04:47 PM
on cstv, they were talking about jeff tedford to michigan, what do you mich fans think?

Vikes99ej
09-06-2007, 04:49 PM
on cstv, they were talking about jeff tedford to michigan, what do you mich fans think?

Ryan Mallett's NFL would be screwed.

Canadian_kid16
09-06-2007, 07:15 PM
Wow, theres a difference between a troll and an Ohio State fan being glad that Michigan lost. But since you guys are the losers I will shut up because no matter what OSU will never embarrass our conference like you guys did.

And you can say Fire Lloyd carr all you want but there comes a point where Michigan players should just beat a Div 2 school no matter who the coach is. Your players arent as good as you like to think.

so getting less than 100 yards of offense in the NC game with the Heisman winner at QB ISN'T embarrassing your conference?

LOL

kwilk103
09-06-2007, 07:18 PM
i heard saddler and hale canceled their mich/uva visits due to sat/act; can anyone confirm?

P-L
09-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Wow, theres a difference between a troll and an Ohio State fan being glad that Michigan lost.
Yes, and you are being a troll. If you were just "an Ohio State fan being glad that Michigan lost" then I'd have no problem with you.

NittanyLion2k7
09-07-2007, 03:21 AM
I'm not sure if that game was just a fluke, with Michigan just not being mentally prepared, or if their defense is just that bad. Just looking at it, their defense should be in the upper-tier of the Big Ten.

I initially thought that the last sentence had to be a fluke, before I looked at their depth chart and saw a bunch of blue chippers up front.

There are a few problems with Michigan's defense.

A)Coaching - Michigan's coaching is not up to par. There defense is never ranked as high as there talent dictates they shoudl be. This is due to poor coaching.
B)Underachieving Players - Gabe Watson never quite played him to his potential. Then there's Prescott Burgess, Lamarr Woodley etc. Ironically some of there better defensive players weren't very highly rated coming out of high school. Ernest Shazor and Marlin Jackson immediately come to mind.
C)Depth - There defense is stacked up front when you look at Rivals ratings, but it gets weaker as you go back. There secondary is mostly no names and lowly rated players. Morgan Trent was the 24th wideout coming out of high school. Johnny Sears... well you know all about him. ASU was able to exploit there defense because they get rid of the ball so fast and throw it to the middle of the field. The Michigan Defense is more setup to be stout against the run and to kill you if you hold onto the ball. That's Big Ten Style, but versus the Option offense it will kill you.

At the end of the day the talent you bring in matters, but coaching matters alot as well. Penn State fielded their best defense the year they had Alan Zemaitis and Anwar Phillips. Neither of those guys were anything close to blue chippers coming out of high school. Anthony Scirotto, arguably the best safety in the Big Ten, was the 46th safety out of high school... 46th! Tony Davis was the 47th CB out of H.S. Sometimes I look at teams and it's evident which ones have good defensive coaches and which ones don't. Virginia Tech fields the best defense year in and year out and on paper it doesn't compare to USC. Where does USC finish in the defensive rankings every year? Exactly.

P-L
09-07-2007, 09:56 AM
How did LaMarr Woodley underachieve? He was an ILB coming out of HS and he made the transition to a DE/OLB tweener. In two years he had 17 sacks, 30.5 TFL, and 7 FF.

Sniper
09-07-2007, 09:58 AM
How did LaMarr Woodley underachieve? He was an ILB coming out of HS and he made the transition to a DE/OLB tweener. In two years he had 17 sacks, 30.5 TFL, and 7 FF.

I'm also curious to hear that logic

NittanyLion2k7
09-07-2007, 12:22 PM
Cross his name off. You still get the point though. For every Alan Branch and Lamar Woodley... theres a Gabe Watson and Prescott Burgess. Not saying other teams don't have this problem, but it's a more common occurance at Michigan.

Jericho@SC
09-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Virginia Tech fields the best defense year in and year out and on paper it doesn't compare to USC. Where does USC finish in the defensive rankings every year? Exactly.


Defensive rankings don't tell the whole story.

USC ranked 20th in total defense last year but you can't tell me the likes of Boise State (14th), Wyoming (9th), Western Michigan (11th) had better defenses.

Obviously who you play has a lot of say in the matter. The Pac-10 is an offense oriented conference. Oregon and Cal would put up 30 pts vs. 90% of CFB. Notre Dame has been a great offense in recent years. But USC still managed decent numbers on defense.

The proof is in the pudding. The trio of Chad Henne, Mike Hart and Mario Manningham? Shut down for 10 points until a garbabe time touchdown.


If USC played the likes of Duke, Virginia, NC State, and North Carolina they would all be held to under 15 points. And be ranked in the top 5 annually.

Virginia Tech is a good defensive ball club. But please don't hint at their defensive coaching being superior to USC's just because they feast on weak offensive teams and play conservative ball control offense.

Jonny
09-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Are you joking? None of those ACC teams are any good.

The Pac-10 is generally underrated I think. Cal and UCLA look really good this year, and Washington is a sleeper IMO.

Sniper
09-08-2007, 11:39 AM
Cross his name off. You still get the point though. For every Alan Branch and Lamar Woodley... theres a Gabe Watson and Prescott Burgess. Not saying other teams don't have this problem, but it's a more common occurance at Michigan.

No I'd say pretty much every school has it. For every Justin King and Dan Connor at PSU there's a Derrick Williams and an Austin Scott.

LonghornsLegend
09-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Wow someone ate Crow? I hear this stuff all summer on the college boards before they got deleated.

Back to the subject (I apologize for trailing off)

recruiting:
No recruit in their right mind would want to play deffense for Michigan unless they are just a huge fan of the school right now. They are no producing the talent like a powerhouse school should.

you act like their is no limit on scholarships, michigan is still a prestigous school, of all time, not just a few years....


ohio st cant sign everybody, michigan still has to get some 5 star athletes

P-L
09-08-2007, 11:09 PM
No I'd say pretty much every school has it. For every Justin King and Dan Connor at PSU there's a Derrick Williams and an Austin Scott.

BF51 posted a link in another thread. It was Colin Cowherd ripping on Michigan a year ago for not developing talent. He was absolutely right. In the Lloyd Carr era no team has been as poor at developing talent as the Wolverines coaching staff has. Sure, we do end up with guys like Mike Hart, LaMarr Woodley, Leon Hall, Marlin Jackson, etc. However, we end up with way too many guys like Gabe Watson, Prescott Burgess, Kevin Grady, James McKinney, Doug Dutch, Brett Gallimore, Jerome Jackson, and Larry Harrison. All those guys that I mentioned were four or five star guys who didn't live up to half of their potential, most not doing anything at the college level.

vatech=accdomination
09-09-2007, 01:14 AM
whats up with doug dutch?

P-L
09-09-2007, 01:54 AM
whats up with doug dutch?

After doing nothing at WR for three years he was moved to CB. He is currently 4th or 5th on the depth chart, which is sad.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-09-2007, 12:54 PM
No I'd say pretty much every school has it. For every Justin King and Dan Connor at PSU there's a Derrick Williams and an Austin Scott.

I wouldn't say Derrick Williams has underachieved...

P-L
09-09-2007, 12:58 PM
I wouldn't say Derrick Williams has underachieved...
Depends on how you define underachieving. He's been a good player, but hasn't played up to his potential. He was the #1 player in the country coming out of HS.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-09-2007, 01:06 PM
Depends on how you define underachieving. He's been a good player, but hasn't played up to his potential. He was the #1 player in the country coming out of HS.

Yea I guess, but he was injured his frosh year, and lst year had a first year QB.

His stats won't blow you away, but he's a good player.

Sniper
09-09-2007, 03:30 PM
Yea I guess, but he was injured his frosh year, and lst year had a first year QB.

His stats won't blow you away, but he's a good player.

From the #1 prospect in the country I expect big things

reigle9
09-09-2007, 03:36 PM
I hate UM as much as the next gguy, but I highly doubt being horrid this year will effect recruiting. Michigan is Michigan and guys will still want to go there/

BTW, I think Mallet is better than Heene right now and Hennie is super overrated/ I xpect him to be a 3rd-5th round pick.

P-L
09-09-2007, 03:57 PM
BTW, I think Mallet is better than Heene right now and Hennie is super overrated/ I xpect him to be a 3rd-5th round pick.

I wish I could agree with you, but watching Henne move the ball against Oregon and watching Mallett move the ball was like day and night. As much as people want to blame Henne for that INT and his poor completion percentage, he did make some good throws and was responsible for 60% of Michigan's first half yards and their only score of the game.

ironman4579
09-18-2007, 03:58 PM
My one main recruiting concern is McGuffie. He likes the staff, and I'm sure one major point for him was he'd be getting a chance to play RB, where alot of teams were offering him as WR or CB. If someone from the staff isn't elevated, and there is a big staff turnover, will he still come to Michigan if he's unsure that they'll let him play RB? Hopefully a decision is made right after the season is over on coaching, so that if a completely new regime takes over, they can get the word out to all the commits that nothing has changed, if that's the case. But I'd hate to lose him because either he's unsure of his future with Michigan, or even worse, because a new staff comes in a tell's him they want him as a receiver now.

TimD
09-20-2007, 10:46 AM
Wow someone ate Crow? I hear this stuff all summer on the college boards before they got deleated.

Back to the subject (I apologize for trailing off)

recruiting:
No recruit in their right mind would want to play deffense for Michigan unless they are just a huge fan of the school right now. They are no producing the talent like a powerhouse school should.

ummm not producing defensive talent?

4 Defensive Guys from UofM in the first 2 rounds...
Leon Hall CB 1st
Alan Branch DT 2nd
LaMarr Woodley LB 2nd
David Harris LB 2nd

P-L
11-19-2007, 07:00 PM
CB Boubacar Cissoko, LB Kenny Demens, and OT Dan O'Neill all state they are still committed to Michigan and plan on honoring their commitments.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071119/SPORTS0201/711190374/1131/SPORTS0201

"I'm going to go there and fight for my position," Cissoko said. "I would like to play for Coach Carr for the next four years. Whoever comes in as coach, I'll play for.

Asked if there was any chance of him not going to Michigan, Cissoko said, "No. None whatsoever."

Demens chose Michigan over Michigan State and Nebraska and said he will keep his commitment.

"I'm going to be a man about this," Demens said. "I'm not backing down. I'm just going to go there and work hard.

"It does matter to me who they hire. I'd like to see someone on the staff, like Ron English, get hired but if it's someone else I would be OK with it. I would like to have a conversation with him be cool with him.

"I'm real close with my high school coach (Dan MacLean) and I want the same when I go to college. There is no chance I will change my mind."

P-L
11-30-2007, 11:46 PM
Some encouraging words from Cissoko.



"I know I want to go to U-M ... i just want to take the visit because they've shown me some love, and it's hard for me to say no. I don't want to go to school there, I know I want to go to Michigan."

He added about visiting Illinois:

"It's kind've up to my family too; they are supposed to go with me. We have some family in Chicago and we're all supposed to go down there. So right now it looks like I'm going to be going ... its about 95%."

Cissoko has one more visit scheduled - what about that one?

"I'm supposed to go to Tennessee the 14th (of December), but I don't know about that trip. My family is supposed to go with me down there too ... but I might not do that trip."

And he added an interesting point:

"I know I want go to to Michigan ... I've been to these places before ...
-- I've been to LSU ... i went there the summer before my Junior year and met Les Miles (http://michigan.scout.com/a.z?s=162&p=8&c=1&nid=3014801).
-- I went to Illinois when Cortez (Smith, his teammate) went down there.
So I've seen them before ... and I know I want to go to Michigan."http://michigan.scout.com/2/707039.html

Sniper
12-01-2007, 08:05 AM
Just caught the tail end of Herbie on SC but did I hear Jon Tenuta for new DC?????????????????

P-L
12-01-2007, 09:14 AM
Just caught the tail end of Herbie on SC but did I hear Jon Tenuta for new DC?????????????????
As much as I like Jon Tenuta, I think Cissoko really liked Ron English and this may change his mind.

ironman4579
12-01-2007, 12:13 PM
As much as I like Jon Tenuta, I think Cissoko really liked Ron English and this may change his mind.

I wish I could find it again, but I read a story on Ron English, and the recruits and current players really seemed to like him alot and look up to him quite a bit.

Axl Rose
12-01-2007, 01:04 PM
Looks like Miles is now staying at LSU and Tenuna is staying at GT. That severally messes UM up and deservingly so after UM put him in such a bad position.

Sniper
12-01-2007, 01:15 PM
Looks like Miles is now staying at LSU and Tenuna is staying at GT. That severally messes UM up and deservingly so after UM put him in such a bad position.

How did they put him in a bad position?

ironman4579
12-01-2007, 01:50 PM
I think he's trying to say that someone at Michigan leaked the info to Herbie. That is of course speculation. For all we know, someone at LSU leaked the info to force Miles hand in making a decision. Either way, I prefer Kelly as the next coach anyway. I would have liked Tenuda though. The only thing that worries me is that now Ferentz is still on the table.

ironman4579
12-01-2007, 01:54 PM
Interesting. If what I just saw was the press conference when Miles was supposed to announce he was staying at LSU with a contract extension, that sure didn't look like it. All I saw was him saying he was the Coach of LSU, and would be the coach of LSU. I never actually saw him say he was staying at LSU or anything about a contract extension.

Axl Rose
12-01-2007, 03:05 PM
How did they put him in a bad position?

Michigan could have waited till the end of the season for carr to retire, Instead he retired and created a distraction for Miles and LSU who were chasing a national title.

P-L
12-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Michigan could have waited till the end of the season for carr to retire, Instead he retired and created a distraction for Miles and LSU who were chasing a national title.
It's common practice for teams to announce coaching changes after the final game of the regular season and by all accounts, Miles was Michigan's second choice.

ironman4579
12-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Michigan could have waited till the end of the season for carr to retire, Instead he retired and created a distraction for Miles and LSU who were chasing a national title.

Why would you wait when recruiting etc is so important? Carr wanted to retire right away so Michigan could start looking for a new coach and get things rolling. I'm sorry, you don't hold off on things and potentially handicap yourself in terms of recruiting etc. so that you don't "create a distraction" for another team. Sorry LSU and Miles, Michigan comes first to Michigan.