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iloxygenil
09-07-2007, 10:34 AM
This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 10:38 AM
why is this in the falcon's team discussion?


and yes, he needs to improve his vision, but he'll be fine this year. you fail to point out how the oline of the Saints got destroyed up front all game. That had alot to do with his poor play.

iloxygenil
09-07-2007, 11:09 AM
Yeah...it does...but it goes in here because I HATE how overrated Reggie Bush is. He's a good WR and KR/PR but man alive as a RB he blows. I've been saying this all along. He played in the Pac10, and until he learns that NFL is faster than the Pac10 and he can't just wait for things to develop and let other people make his plays for him. Bush in space can be scary, very scary, but Bush as a RB makes me a very VERY happy man when I see him back there and not Deuce.

VoteLynnSwan
09-07-2007, 11:12 AM
This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.

well first of all... Reggie Bush's game isn't running between the tackles... everyone knows that, he catches the ball, and is great in space.

Secondly... Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney are two of the faster DEs in the league, so your point about them not being Peppers or Abraham is idiotic.

marks01234
09-07-2007, 11:14 AM
This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

He's a Desmond Howard type player.

iloxygenil
09-07-2007, 11:17 AM
well first of all... Reggie Bush's game isn't running between the tackles... everyone knows that, he catches the ball, and is great in space.

Secondly... Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney are two of the faster DEs in the league, so your point about them not being Peppers or Abraham is idiotic.

Glad you think so, since I saw a white guy who was beaten by bush to the edge still catch him and drag him down after a 2 yard gain. Since you had no idea what I was talking about and just made one of the most dumbass assumptions you could have...way to go. Freeney is a 1 move DE imo, very overrated, but that makes teams double him so it allows other people to look better on their defense. And since Mathis doesn't play every down...it had nothing to do with him. But good try buddy. Oh wait...I forgot Josh Thomas is a freak of nature and runs a 4.3...wait...no he doesn't.

Geo
09-07-2007, 11:49 AM
It sort of surprises me how polarizing Bush is, there really doesn't seem to be a middle ground on him.

Personally, myself, I really like Reggie Bush. I want to watch every play he's on the field. And, truth be told, I can't say I lose any sleep that others feel differently. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, likes/dislikes, what have you.

P-L
09-07-2007, 12:10 PM
Honestly, I think you need to calm down. It isn't the end of the world. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, just like you are to yours. I see no reason to get as upset as you get, over a player receiving much more hype than his production warrants. Just state your opinion on him, and be done with it. If he never improves and is a bust then you are right. However, if he becomes Jesus Christ in cleats, you will look like a fool. I cannot remember myself every getting as upset over anything, as you are getting about Reggie Bush being "overrated." Trust me, it isn't worth getting this angry about. Despite many people thinking the opposite of you, quite a few people do agree with you.

LionSmack
09-07-2007, 12:49 PM
I get where you're coming from on RB but I think he's still got greatness in him. I think it will take him longer to find it because he's so in love with his own crazy athleticism that he forgets to just do what needs to be done for the team first and worry about making sick moves later.

Like there was one play last night where he had an easy first down if he just dove forward for a yard but instead he tried to juke the crap out of someone and got stopped a half yard short.

In time he will learn when to try that stuff and when not to. His speed and moves are too good for him to be a total failure. Obviously he'll never be a carry-the-mail, power running type of guy but comparing him to Desmond Howard is just plain ignorant.

d34ng3l021
09-07-2007, 12:52 PM
I think its kind of ironic that a Falcon fan who supported Vick hates Bush because he is not too good at running between the lanes, but creates a mismatch in the passing game.

Vick was probably just as good throwing during short-medium passes as Bush is running inside, but really shines during deep passes and running, when Bush really shines on sweeps and the passing game.

Geo
09-07-2007, 01:06 PM
Nothing wrong with adding a little spice to a dish, some healthy discussion between fans of division rivals. :p

Shiver
09-07-2007, 01:07 PM
It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.

thefalconer
09-07-2007, 02:04 PM
I think its kind of ironic that a Falcon fan who supported Vick hates Bush because he is not too good at running between the lanes, but creates a mismatch in the passing game.

Vick was probably just as good throwing during short-medium passes as Bush is running inside, but really shines during deep passes and running, when Bush really shines on sweeps and the passing game.

stole the words from my mouth. bush is a vick. both may not be traditional to their respective positions on the field but imo, they make their team better by forcing defenses to guess what they will do. personally, even more so than payton, i think bush owes his success to mcallister. say duece doesnt come back well from his big injury in '05. that means defenses would know what the saints would be running with just bush on the field. to say you cant stand bush while being a vick a fan (or used to) is jsut hypocritical dude.

Shiver
09-07-2007, 02:34 PM
The thing about Vick is we all held out that he would improve. Quarterbacks, especially ones as raw as Vick was coming out, typically take 3-4 years to improve. I stopped defending Vick when it became evident that he would never become the player he should have been. Did he really make the team better? They were fairly mediocre and quite inconsistent with him as the QB. They had one good year that was a product of a last place schedule in the NFC, when Vick had to play a quality opponent (which he didn't face until the NFCCG that's how weak the NFC was) he faltered again. Even before the dog fighting thing I was imploring the Falcons to give Matt Schaub a shot in training camp.

619
09-07-2007, 03:36 PM
This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.

i respect your opinion and ill admit hes a bit out of position but if u were to evaluate a player on pure talent and athleticism hes up there with the all-time greats. i dont know if hes typically a slow starter even at USC but the same thing happened last year too and the farther into the season he got the better he played as evident by the 100+ yard game against the giants in giant stadium late last year. remember in 06 he didnt get his first TD til his 5th game and he ended up with 9 in total.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-07-2007, 05:51 PM
I love Reggie. He's perfect for what the Saints want him to do. Would I take him on my team? Hell yes. I'd love the attention he demands on the field. He is just not that great of a running back though.

Shiver
09-07-2007, 06:38 PM
Even with his $50 Million dollar contract?

Green Bay Scat
09-07-2007, 07:12 PM
This is mainly a "Ted Ginn" rant but just change Bush to Ginn. They both were drafted to high based on Possitional Talent. Bush is great at catching, but a RB job is to rush INSIDE and out. What do coaches say? NORTH SOUTH not east west. No point in ranting. Bush is one of the most Talented players, just isnt a RB. hes a RB thats a WR playing RB. Percy Harvin

Forenci
09-07-2007, 07:33 PM
Sorry, I don't mean to impose on the Falcons thread, but I felt compelled to reply to this thread.

Listen, you're entitled to you're opinion, as everyone is - but you're being completely ignorant.

Maybe it's because the Saints are a division rival of the Falcons, and you hate the Saints, or maybe it's because you just don't like USC, or players who get hyped. Who knows? It really doesn't matter.


Well, Troy Aikman sucked his first year, so he was a bust, right? Peyton Manning struggled as a rookie so I guess that means he was a bust. Granted, they're QB's, but most guys need time to adjust to the NFL.

I think what Bush adds to the offense is worth his price. So he had a bad game against an Indy defense that sucked last year, so? Every player will have a bad game, and having bad games in an opener is pretty common for a lot of players.

Well, if Peyton Manning plays like crap in the playoffs, we still know he's a great QB. So big deal, he didn't have a great game (and by the way, his offensive line was blocking like crap on a lot of those losses).

Heh, I'm tired of everyone being a critic and trying to pass their opinions off as fact. You say 'Reggie Bush is a bust' based off ONE game. Don't give me this BS about saying his last year sucked, because he had a pretty good season for a rookie considering he didn't get much of an opportunity to get into a rhythm running the ball. The one time he did get a chance to consistently get carries was when Deuce went out with an injury and oh..guess what..he ran for 100+ yards.

Geez man, you seriously need to lighten up. I mean, sure, you could be right..in a couple years from now - but why don't you wait until THEN to make a real judgement as opposed to acting like some pompous ass who just proved 'everyone' wrong. Until then, shut the hell up and give him some more time to play.

iloxygenil
09-07-2007, 09:51 PM
Watching his style of play is what I'm going from, he thinks he's still in the PAC-10. He's got a LOT of growing up to do in the NFL, he's not really going to be successful RB in this league without a complete change of his mindset. And with a player that overhyped, and a player that is that full of himself, it's going to take entirely too long or him just getting busted so bad it breaks him from being so full of himself.

Shiver
09-07-2007, 10:08 PM
Forenci, what you don't realize is that me and Oxy were not Bush fans, per say, back when it was assumed that he would be a Texans RB. So it isn't as if were picking on him only because he is a Saints' player.

iloxygenil
09-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Yeah, I'm prolly overly adamant about it but oh well...He's my least favorite player in the league and the hype machine that surrounds him needs to come tumbling down.

thefalconer
09-07-2007, 10:55 PM
does it really matter that he doesnt fit the rb mold? he helps his offense by adding another dynamic dimension to it. hes a hybrid and he's been successful. im curious to see him on a roster with him as the sole rb however. i definitely agree he is overly-hyped by the media.

TigerBait45
09-07-2007, 11:04 PM
Yeah, hes overhyped, but hes talented as hell. Hes got a lot of growing to do as a player (running between the tackles and pass blocking could use some improvement) but hes got game changing potential.

Hes a lot like Mike Vick (off the field issues aside). Very good at things that aren't exactly what people look for at their position, but subpar at some of the basic things. They're both talented players, but they both get (in Vick's case I guess you could say got) waaaay too much hype. It'll take a few years, but I think Bush can and will become a great player in this league. Hes not quite there yet though.

In Reggie's defense, that offensive line was nearly invisible last night. They weren't making holes for him or Deuce.

Caddy
09-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Reggie Bush is talented and there is no doubt about that fact. I also think most people by now recognise that Bush is never going to be a great, every down back, but what he is, is a great offensive player. He adds an extra dimension to the Saints offense and can create mismatches for opposing defenses. He is a constant threat and commands at least one player marking him at all time which in itself is a great ability.

Flyboy
09-08-2007, 12:15 AM
How cute. An official Reggie Bush thread. Imagine that.

Shiver
09-08-2007, 12:29 AM
How cute. An official Reggie Bush thread. Imagine that.

If I had to deal with "Michael Vick debate" threads for three years I think you can manage. You haven't been what I've been through, especially through the past year. Now that Vick is off the Falcons a tremendous weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. It's actually a relief. I say that knowing that as soon as Harrington stinks up the joint I will be clamoring for Vick's exciting, but frustrating, play.


As long as there are players that garner what many deem as a befitting amount of hype and money there will be polarizing discussions. It's the nature of the beast. What better topic to kick off the new NFC South board?

diabsoule
09-08-2007, 04:22 AM
It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.

McAllister is the one who will win us games too, not Bush. Sean Payton is just mesmerized with all of the gimmick plays that he can think up with Bush so that is why he implements him as much as he does in the offense. If you were to take Reggie, put him in motion to where he lines up in the slot and has a linebacker covering him, then you have the mismatch you're looking for. You could also keep McAllister in the backfield so that teams don't know if you're going to dump it off to Reggie or hand it off to Deuce. It makes perfectly logical sense to do those type of things with someone like Bush in the backfield. It doesn't make sense to hand him the ball and tell him to run a sweep. Defense in the NFL are too fast for sweeps to work. The same thing with a swing pass. You get one chance to do a sweep or swing pass. If it works, great, if not then don't do it again. Never do a sweep or swing pass twice.
Sometimes it takes some good old fashioned smash mouth football to win some games and that's what the Saints game plan should have been against the Colts. Play ball control offense and ram the ball in between the tackles. They also should have never gotten out of their Cover 2 defense which they used in the first half but that is for another rant. Having the defense respect the running game will then set up the play action and also sets up those short dink passes to Bush. I'm sure that most DC's fear McAllister over Bush and that is because he has proven he is a productive back in the NFL and is more than capable of getting it done. However, he needs 20+ carries a game to do that and that won't happen with him splitting time with Reggie Bush. Bush is a good role player that can help open up the offense. He is nothing more than that. The glue is McAllister.

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 01:37 PM
INDIANAPOLIS -- Reggie Bush partied at the Playboy Mansion this offseason. He ate at the White House. He filmed a commercial in Spain. He attended a Grammy gathering with big-voiced R&B star Ciara, and he began a relationship with big-bootied sex-tape star Kim Kardashian.

Here's one thing Reggie Bush didn't do this offseason:

Improve as a football player.


What happens when the ultimate X-factor becomes a nonfactor? Well, this pretty much says it all. (US Presswire)
Then again, let's be fair. Bush did hurt his ankle a few months ago ... playing in a celebrity basketball game in Las Vegas.

What a knucklehead. After a rookie year in which he caught 88 passes, ran for 565 yards, returned a punt for a touchdown and helped the New Orleans Saints reach the NFC Championship Game, Bush had the opportunity this offseason to live the life of the jet-setting young superstar. And by God he took it. He became the centerpiece of at least nine national advertising campaigns, with the commercial shoots and photo shoots and everything else that goes with it. He was a paparazzi magnet in Hollywood, where he bought a $5 million offseason home.

He missed a month of offseason workouts with teammates.

The Saints let Bush have his fun this offseason, presumably because he was exhausted after playing 22 games last year, exhibitions and playoffs included. Bush was far from the only Saint, or only Saints rookie, to play so many games, but he was the only one named Reggie Bush. This is a guy who has been handed everything, including his place of residence at college, since he was a teenager. Hard work and crazy genetics got him this far, but Bush spent his first NFL offseason betraying both.

Which brings us to Thursday night, a 41-10 loss to the Colts. In the first game of his second NFL season, Bush was terrible. He made bad cuts. He dropped two passes. He got run down by two linebackers. His final numbers were inflated by the Saints' final drive against a disinterested, prevent-playing Colts defense, and still his final numbers were ugly: 12 rushes for 38 yards, four catches for 7 yards, one punt return for 2 yards.

The better second-year back in this game was the Colts' Joseph Addai, who went No. 30 overall in the 2006 draft -- 28 spots behind Bush -- but with 1,081 rushing yards nearly doubled Bush's rookie output. That continued Thursday, with Addai rushing for 118 yards and even outproducing Bush through the air (three catches, 25 yards).

But Bush has other things over Addai. It was Bush, not Addai, who witnessed the running of the bulls this offseason in Spain. It was Bush who was invited to play in that celebrity basketball game during the NBA All-Star Break. And who snagged Ciara, and then Kardashian. And who became the NFL's second busiest endorser, after Peyton Manning.

And it was Bush who went from star to stiff.

Bush wasn't just human Thursday night. He was bad, physically and mentally. His first touch was a punt return early in the first quarter, when he wiggled and juked and danced for two yards before being corralled in the open field by Colts immortal Matt Giordano. Moments later Bush pulled in his first reception on second and 4, and with the RCA Dome crowd groaning at all the open field in front of him, he cut into the teeth of the defense and was tackled short of the first down. That drive later ended when Bush was obliterated in the backfield for a 3-yard loss.

The Saints offense struggled until its third possession, which Bush killed when he dropped a pass on third and 3 from the Colts 16 -- forcing the Saints to settle for a field goal. Before the half was finished, Bush would be chased down by Colts linebacker Rob Morris on the left corner, and by linebacker Freddie Keiaho on the right corner.

In fairness to him, Bush wasn't the reason the Saints got rolled Thursday night. Addai was better than Bush, true, but Manning was better than the Saints' Drew Brees. Colts receivers Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were better than Marques Colston and Devery Henderson. The Colts defense looked faster than the Saints defense. Colts kicker Adam Vinatieri was more accurate than Olindo Mare. This was domination, up and down both sides of the ball and on special teams.

But that's where Bush comes in. The Saints picked him No. 2 overall to be an athletic equalizer. He's supposed to shrink the gap between teams like the Colts and Saints ... not blow it wide open.

Bush's final play of the game was an interception that Giordano returned for a touchdown. An instant before Bush could grab Giordano from behind, he was taken out by a sloppy offensive lineman. Bush slowly stood, walked to the bench and sat down with his head in his hands.

An hour later, while most of his teammates were climbing into jeans and T-shirts, Bush lovingly pulled on a crisp yellow Oxford, beige tie, light brown three-piece suit -- vest buttoned to the hilt -- and leather wing-tips. He placed a diamond into each ear. He wheeled a designer handbag and slung a Heisman Trophy backpack over his right shoulder. He looked a lot better in the locker room than he looked on the field, I'll tell you that.

And then Bush disappeared, leaving for the team bus. Saints officials said he would return to meet the media, but he never did. The media understood. Reggie Bush had just spent three hours embarrassing himself on national television. He wasn't coming back.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10337299

Guess I'm not the only person who can see...

JK17
09-08-2007, 01:44 PM
Guess I'm not the only person who can see...

That article is ridiculous though. I don't like Reggie Bush and I sure agree that he is overrated, but this article rips him apart because of one game he played this season, and becuase he has a personal life in the offseason...

Tons of football players are involved in relationships with celebrities. Or go to major events. LaDainian Tomlinson played in that same All-Star game, but I don't think this guy would dare call him out for that. He's going to victimize him for signing endorsement deals? Name one player who wouldn't in his situation. Is it that big of a deal that Bush has a life, or is this guy just so mad that Addai doesn't, it sounds like a 12 year old complaining. "Bush has this, Addai doesn't..." etc. It's ridiculous, the guy buys a house, and now its a problem because the media, guys like him, are interested in it? What is he supposed to do, he's making a lot of money, should he not get to use it?

Reggie Bush is overrated. And he didn't help the Saints vs. the Colts. But no one on the Saints helped them win that game. And it was just one game, but this guy attacks Bush right away.

Flyboy
09-08-2007, 01:46 PM
"Sometimes it takes some good old fashioned smash mouth football to win some games and that's what the Saints game plan should have been against the Colts. Play ball control offense and ram the ball in between the tackles."

The way our offensive played in the opener, we had to go another direction. The Colts were shutting down the run whether it was Bush or Deuce in the backfield.

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 02:22 PM
You didn't give Deuce enough touches...that's pretty much all there is to it...10 in a game...he can pound the ball on that D.

Philliez01
09-08-2007, 02:47 PM
To support Matt Giordano, he has to be one of the fastest guys on the Colts roster easily.

Reggie Bush, IMO, had one good play on Thursday. I believe it was for a first down in which he pile drived the interior of the Colts DL and got the first down. I think it was early 4th quarter or late 3rd but he did have that one good drive. However, all he did after that was drop passes and attempt going to the outside only when to be tripped up by a Colts LB (which I was proud of btw, can't remember the last time I saw Colts LB'ers tackling consistently).

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with just how bad most of the Saints, not named Scott Fujita looked last night.

Average OT LB
09-08-2007, 02:53 PM
anybody who thinks reggie bush is a bust just doenst know the facts... I'm not a saints fan im not a bush supporter..

Look at the split between the first half and second half of the year. Plus the playoffs. end of story.

Payton allowed him to be great. but that doesnt mean he did his best. He split time!!

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 04:00 PM
It was late in the fourth and it was vanilla defense...reggie did nothing at all when defense was actually playing...

Philliez01
09-08-2007, 04:05 PM
It was late in the fourth and it was vanilla defense...reggie did nothing at all when defense was actually playing...

Nah I just remembered that the Saints were going the opposite way that they were going in the 4th. It was right around Aaron Stecker's run.

Forenci
09-08-2007, 04:29 PM
Yeah, once again, this is pointless. So what if he had a social life in the off-season? What the hell does that have to do with anything? More importantly, what does that have to do with football? Nothing.

The writer who wrote that is a complete idiot. I mean, at least you're trying to base it off some legitimate on the field problems he has. Sure, sometimes he doesn't exhibit great vision or he'll bounce it outside the tackles way too often - but those can be corrected, and if I had to say based off pre-season and the few carries he did have, he improved on it quite a bit in the off-season.

Once again, Reggie Bush played poor versus the Colts, but so did the entire team. The Saints offensive line run blocking was complete crap in that game. They got man handled by the Colts defensive line. Deuce couldn't get anything going for that same reason. Bush would have been better off bouncing some more runs out in that case.

Now, that said, you're right and I completely agree - Bush is overhyped. Of course, a lot of players both in the NFL and college are overhyped, but that doesn't mean they won't be good or great players.

So, if Bush plays like this every game, then I'll gladly say you're right, if thats what you're looking for. Until then, just ease up. He's overhyped, but he's still a good young player that has some things to learn, just like every young player does. You jumped the gun way too early on making this thread...

Flyboy
09-08-2007, 05:39 PM
Once again, Reggie Bush played poor versus the Colts, but so did the entire team. The Saints offensive line run blocking was complete crap in that game. They got man handled by the Colts defensive line. Deuce couldn't get anything going for that same reason. Bush would have been better off bouncing some more runs out in that case.


Bingo. I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp.

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 05:40 PM
I really think the only reason that he didn't get anything goin was because they kept trying to give Bush touches, Deuce can get it rollin real easy.

You say I jumped the gun? I've been saying this since he was at USC that he was overrated and that in the pros he's going to get killed. He's just not the 2nd coming of Gale Sayers or anything like people were saying. He's a really good football player, but not a runningback. I've been screaming this from the beginning...and I don't want to be posting it after the fact...

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 05:43 PM
Bingo. I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp.

No, I get that, really, I do. That's not the Saints team that will show up the rest of the year, go to the Saints forum and read what I had to say about that. I know that the Colts dominated the entire team...but if Bush was THAT good, then he'd have been able to do something SOMETHING for them.

People say Vick was overrated, but look what he was doing with a TERRIBLE O-Line and how many games he kept us in, how many drives he kept alive, I mean people just hate on Vick for no reason other than the Falcons didn't help him really by putting appropriate talent around him. But Bush is supposed to be transcendent better than Vick, and Vick carried pitiful teams to average records. For instance 5-11 and 3-1 with Vick...Seems to be the easiest thing in the world to see.

Flyboy
09-08-2007, 07:09 PM
No, I get that, really, I do. That's not the Saints team that will show up the rest of the year, go to the Saints forum and read what I had to say about that. I know that the Colts dominated the entire team...but if Bush was THAT good, then he'd have been able to do something SOMETHING for them.

Why would you assume that? If Deuce can't run behind our offensive line because of our poor run blocking why would you expect Bush to do the same when he's not as good as a runner as Deuce? I'm missing that logic.

Shiver
09-08-2007, 08:23 PM
He saying that if Reggie Bush was as good of a player as he's hyped to be. He is supposed to be "Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk." That's really the only reason Bush has such a bullseye whenever he doesn't do very well. It's the media's fault.

iloxygenil
09-08-2007, 09:32 PM
He's been handed everything forever, including unwarranted praise. He played in one of the weakest conferences in football on a team that would be good in one of the big boy conferences his stats got really skewed. Yes, he's fast, no he's not as fast as everyone wants him to be. Yes, he's a good football player, no he's not a good runningback. Everyone says he's great he should be able to overcome a bad OL...a la Barry...but he's not so that's what bothers me. Shiver is exactly right.

Shiver
09-08-2007, 09:36 PM
I'd like to add that there are fans here who are also the ones responsible for Bush being overrated. Not the Saints' fans though, they are very level headed here for the most part.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Marshawn Lynch just did something in under 3 quarters that Reggie has yet to do in 17 games. Get a run over 20 yards.

joercky
09-09-2007, 03:04 PM
The media seems to love runningbacks who love to dance around and lose 10 yards. For some reason I don't share this infatuation.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 03:55 PM
I'd like to add that there are fans here who are also the ones responsible for Bush being overrated. Not the Saints' fans though, they are very level headed here for the most part.

Exactly. I actually feel bad for the Saints fans who are facing the brunt of the anti-bush sentiment, since they really have very little to do with his hype train. All the hype came from the media, and from mostly non-Saints fans on here. People saying he would be better than Faulk, better than LDT. People saying he would come in and dominate. They weren't Saints fans. Anyway, the thing with Reggie and people saying he just needs more time, he's young, Rome wasn't built in a day, blah blah blah. That holds true with QBs, with OL/DL, WRs and DBs. But RBs generally make a splash right away. Let's have a look.

Addai:

118 yards last week, TD, 5.1 average. Last year had over 1000 yards and 4.8 average.

Adrian Peterson:

19 carries 103 yards. 60 yards receiving and a TD as well. 5.4 per carry.

Marshawn Lynch:

19/90 TD, 4.7 ypc. Looked better than the numbers suggest, as I watched the game. Was punishing guys all over, and his TD run was amazing. he had a run on 4th and 2, where he was hit at the LOS, his helmet FLEW back, like seriously FLEW, and he still got the 1st on a second effort.

MJD:

166/941, 13 TD, 5.7 ypc.

Disappointing today, however. 7/32, which is still 4.6 ypc.

Now, let's look at Bush.

155/565 6 TD 3.6 ypc.

And on thursday, 12/38 3.2 ypc.


Reggie is really the only one who can't get any success on the ground. And he's on arguably the best offense of these(at worst, 2nd), why can't he get it done?

marks01234
09-09-2007, 03:59 PM
Mario Williams has a fumble recovery with a return for more than 20 yards!


Bush is the NFL's next Desmond Howard. As soon as Sean Peyton stop's trying to feature everything around him, he'll be a third down back and a punt returner.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Mario Williams has a fumble recovery with a return for more than 20 yards!


Bush is the NFL's next Desmond Howard. As soon as Sean Peyton stop's trying to feature everything around him, he'll be a third down back and a punt returner.


Check the top 500 players thread, the last post I made as a reminder to Ewing.

TigerBait45
09-09-2007, 04:13 PM
Just trying to look at his rushing stats doesn't do him justice though. Hes definitely a dynamic player.

He had well over 1000 all purpose yards and 8 TDs if you combine his rushing and receiving numbers. He had a solid year last year and I can only see him getting better as he learns how to play at this level.

The thing about Reggie compared to Joe Addai (who I absolutely love by the way) is that Addai was already used to the style of running thats successful in the NFL. One cut and run. Bush still has a lot to learn about running the ball in the league. He may never be a guy like Addai but I can see him as a 1000 yard rusher eventually.

ShutDwn
09-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Reggie Bush is the Vick of Running backs.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2007, 04:46 PM
Just trying to look at his rushing stats doesn't do him justice though. Hes definitely a dynamic player.

He had well over 1000 all purpose yards and 8 TDs if you combine his rushing and receiving numbers. He had a solid year last year and I can only see him getting better as he learns how to play at this level.

The thing about Reggie compared to Joe Addai (who I absolutely love by the way) is that Addai was already used to the style of running thats successful in the NFL. One cut and run. Bush still has a lot to learn about running the ball in the league. He may never be a guy like Addai but I can see him as a 1000 yard rusher eventually.

That's fair. You saying he may never be Addai or whomever is much different than insisting he'll be the best player ever, which is what some have done. He's obviously not a bad player overall. He's a good football player, just a poor runningback.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-09-2007, 05:52 PM
Mario Williams has a fumble recovery with a return for more than 20 yards!


Bush is the NFL's next Desmond Howard. As soon as Sean Peyton stop's trying to feature everything around him, he'll be a third down back and a punt returner.


He shouldn't stop featuring Bush. Reggie is an amazing football player. Payton needs to let Deuce be the main RB, and give Reggie sparing touches.

Personally, if I were a coach, I'd use Bush all the time. I'd line up in 2 back sets, have him as my slot, reverses, double reverses, all that. I wouldn't give him more than the duties of a #2 back though.

joercky
09-09-2007, 06:03 PM
Reggie Bush is the Vick of Running backs.
Slight difference Vick knew how to run the ball past the line of scrimmage into the opponents backfield.

Shiver
09-09-2007, 09:45 PM
He shouldn't stop featuring Bush. Reggie is an amazing football player. Payton needs to let Deuce be the main RB, and give Reggie sparing touches.

Personally, if I were a coach, I'd use Bush all the time. I'd line up in 2 back sets, have him as my slot, reverses, double reverses, all that. I wouldn't give him more than the duties of a #2 back though.

This is exactly how I feel. Don't force feed him the ball, at the expense of McAllister. They should use him to compliment McAllister instead. The threat of him on the end around was a huge boost to McAllister's YPC last year.

P-L
09-10-2007, 04:49 AM
Mario Williams has the same number of TD as Reggie Bush and Vince Young combined. LOL.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-10-2007, 06:23 AM
This is a horrible, horrible term to use, but it almost seems like Payton is "Madden Coaching". Not as in Madden the coach, but Madden video game football. You know when you have some stud playmaker, and you just wanna get him the ball to the detriment of the rest of the offense? I've been guilty of it. It would be more beneficial to give the ball to Deuce 25 times and Reggie maybe 15 touches total. Instead of neglecting Deuce and trying to force feed it to Reggie.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-10-2007, 06:24 AM
Mario Williams has the same number of TD as Reggie Bush and Vince Young combined. LOL.


But he's a massive bust and the world's biggest mistake, so it doesn't count.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-10-2007, 02:47 PM
Reggie Bush's 2006 rushing stats

First 8 games of the season:
81 carries, 207 yards, 2.6 avg, 0 TD, 2 fumbles

Last 10 games of the season (last 8 reg season games + 2 playoff games):
90 carries, 429 yards, 4.8 avg, 7 TD, 0 fumbles

If you guys want to ignore the fact that Reggie improved as a runner over the course of last season, so be it. But one awful game, when THE ENTIRE OFFENSE played an awful game as well, does not mean that he's finished making progress. The verdict isn't out yet and things are still looking up for Reggie. Anybody willing to call him a bust at this point is ignorant.

Shiver
09-10-2007, 04:14 PM
Who is calling him a "bust"? Maybe if you expected the next great, transcendent RB from him then yeah, but no one is saying he is a bad player.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-10-2007, 04:19 PM
Who is calling him a "bust"? Maybe if you expected the next great, transcendent RB from him then yeah, but no one is saying he is a bad player.

It's sure being insinuated...
Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player.

Shiver
09-10-2007, 04:25 PM
I would agree that Bush makes an impact due to Payton's use of him. That being said I would hope every other coach would do the same things with him. It doesn't take a genius to realize that splitting Bush out wide and using him on passes and end around plays is a good idea.

marks01234
09-17-2007, 11:27 AM
Reggie Bush's 2006 rushing stats

First 8 games of the season:
81 carries, 207 yards, 2.6 avg, 0 TD, 2 fumbles

Last 10 games of the season (last 8 reg season games + 2 playoff games):
90 carries, 429 yards, 4.8 avg, 7 TD, 0 fumbles

If you guys want to ignore the fact that Reggie improved as a runner over the course of last season, so be it. But one awful game, when THE ENTIRE OFFENSE played an awful game as well, does not mean that he's finished making progress. The verdict isn't out yet and things are still looking up for Reggie. Anybody willing to call him a bust at this point is ignorant.

Bush last ten game stats are inflated because he went for 126 yards against a terrible Giants D. Take out those numbers and he is back to below 3 yards per carry.

Two awful games now.

The verdict isn't out yet but is hard to predict Bush won't be a bust. He's getting outplayed by Addai, Marshawn Lynch, Adrian Peterson and Lawrence Maroney.

TigerBait45
09-17-2007, 03:21 PM
So basically..because he ran against a bad defense it should be disregarded?

I don't see the logic in that.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-17-2007, 06:03 PM
No it just proves that manipulating a small sample of games to draw a conclusion is flawed.

DeShaun Foster has torn apart the Giants, Falcons and Rams run defense consistently throughout his career and sucked against pretty much everyone else. Where would you rank Foster as a RB? Low 20s?

iloxygenil
09-21-2007, 07:52 PM
Foster's ability is around 10...no doubt. His consistency and durability drop him to 15 or so for me. But he's still got special speed, he just can't create for himself. Williams I'm more worried about him developing into top 10 consistently and his ability to break a tackle and take it to the house. I wanted Williams in Atlanta, and I still would love to have a back like him here. I think Carolina is saving his career though, by letting him rest up after all those carries in college, and it's going to pay off in a big way for them unfortunately. But Foster I would say is around 15-16, he's middle of the pack, but on the upper side of it imo. His speed makes him very dangerous.

Bush will NOT be a bust...however...he will never live up to the #2 overall selection that he was given. He's a great football player, but it's like a great utility player in baseball. They'll never be MVP candidate because they aren't great at anything but they're good at everything. They help their teams win a lot of games because they can fill in anywhere and do adequate, but to use one to build your club around...you'd fail because they don't excel in any one area that makes them a constant threat. Bush will never be the best anything...but he'll always be a good weapon to have. But when Payton figures out that's all he is is a gimmic it's going to cost the Saints games, because the guy who needs to pound it for them is Deuce.

Shiver
09-21-2007, 08:15 PM
Bush will NOT be a bust...however...he will never live up to the #2 overall selection that he was given. He's a great football player, but it's like a great utility player in baseball. They'll never be MVP candidate because they aren't great at anything but they're good at everything. They help their teams win a lot of games because they can fill in anywhere and do adequate, but to use one to build your club around...you'd fail because they don't excel in any one area that makes them a constant threat. Bush will never be the best anything...but he'll always be a good weapon to have. But when Payton figures out that's all he is is a gimmic it's going to cost the Saints games, because the guy who needs to pound it for them is Deuce.


I couldn't agree with you any more than I do. There has always been a small contingent that never thought that Bush would be a great NFL RB, even amidst the hype running up to the '06 draft, in the NFL and now a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon.

etk
09-21-2007, 09:27 PM
I couldn't agree with you any more than I do. There has always been a small contingent that never thought that Bush would be a great NFL RB, even amidst the hype running up to the '06 draft, in the NFL and now a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon.

I've never believed the hype and I never will. Reggie Bush was never a top-5 prospect, despite his all-world talent. The NFL ground game is all about pounding the rock down the field to pick up chunks of yardage. Reggie always tries to break the big one instead of lowering his COG, and he always will as it's his natural style. The Saints are fortunate to have a dominant weapon in Deuce but they get carried away with trying to involve Reggie. Pounding the rock wins football games, not showing off your weapons experimentally. Bush should be their permanent slot receiver and returner, with occasional carries. That's where he's most effective and it enables the Saints to use their best asset more often. Ride the Deuce.

Saints fans try to make it seem like teams fear Bush and constantly have to account for him. A simple zone defense is all it takes to neutralize him quite easily. The CBs or OLB have flat responsibility, where their job is to come up and fill on those quick swings or screens. Sheldon Brown jacking him up is a perfect example of how to react. He's a little more dangerous against man coverage because it is more difficult for an OLB to to make his reads and then
scrape or sprint to meet him before he hits the sideline. Once again, in zone the defenders face the QB so they can react quicker to the pass to Reggie, and NFL defenders usually have no problem stopping him in the open-field despite his arsenal of moves. As a runningback, he's even less of a threat. Defenses simply have to hold the point of attack by standing up the linemen, forcing Reggie to bounce and wait at the hole. The speed of the pro game is much too advanced for Reggie to be a consistent threat anyway, therefore he 's not worth the amount of touches he receives.

iloxygenil
09-25-2007, 12:20 AM
*cough* BUMP *cough*

soybean
09-25-2007, 12:32 AM
It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.

i don't know what you're implying, the saints dont give bush any more carries than they do mccallister.

comahan
09-25-2007, 12:37 AM
i don't know what you're implying the saints dont give bush any more carries than they do mccallister.

but they went out of their way to get the ball to bush and seemed to completely forget deuce

no matter now, since deuce is apparently done for the year

Auron
09-25-2007, 12:38 AM
Well if the early reports are true that Deuce McAllister re-tore his repaired ACL. We're about to see a lot more Reggie Bush than expected for better or worse, he's going to be counted on to carry the load in the rushing game along with occasional carries for Stecker, and Pierre Thomas.

With the way the Offensive line has played this season I don't think any running back would be succesful, Deuce and Bush have been struggling just to make it back to the Line of Scrimmage on most plays.

soybean
09-25-2007, 12:42 AM
but they went out of their way to get the ball to bush and seemed to completely forget deuce

no matter now, since deuce is apparently done for the year

well they weren't going to give deuce 20+ carries and bush zero. Bush is in only every 5 plays or so anyways.

Geo
09-25-2007, 12:44 AM
Hello, full-time Reggie.

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 01:44 AM
With the way the Offensive line has played this season I don't think any running back would be succesful, Deuce and Bush have been struggling just to make it back to the Line of Scrimmage on most plays.

Yeah. And then plenty of haters will pile up... woohoo. I can't wait.

Auron
09-25-2007, 01:56 AM
Yeah. And then plenty of haters will pile up... woohoo. I can't wait.
Have you seen other Saints forums? I just can't take it anymore, everyone is turning on each other even respectable posters are dragging themselves down in emotional angst. There are stories of Saints fans at the Dome fighting each other, and throwing bottles. It's truly a bad time.

Geo
09-25-2007, 02:13 AM
I really don't think it's time to panic yet for the Saints.

They have the bye week to regroup, to move on from Duece and gameplan around Bush as their full-time back (good things will happen when Reggie touches the ball 20 times a game). Less power running, more spread offense imo, get Lance Moore on the field (is it just me or is he the best receiver not named Colston on the roster right now?) and spread those defenses out for Bush and Brees to attack.

Most importantly, the biggest focus should be on the offensive line, it's killing the offense with its play and penalties. Now that Bush is staying on the field instead of having to leave, the Saints can think about running more no-huddle to try to wear opposing defenses down, helping their athletic-but-not-mauling offensive linemen out some as we saw on at least one of the Saints' scoring drives tonight. The Saints fortunately have the veteran quarterback in Drew Brees who can handle it.

The schedule is still favorable for them to win the wild card, if not the division (seriously). The next game is a division game against Carolina in Week 5, there's a great chance to not only get the first win but also a division win which is doubly important.

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 02:14 AM
Have you seen other Saints forums? I just can't take it anymore, everyone is turning on each other even respectable posters are dragging themselves down in emotional angst. There are stories of Saints fans at the Dome fighting each other, and throwing bottles. It's truly a bad time.

SaintsReport.com? Man, I haven't been there after our first game against the Colts. And even the other Saints forums I visit that I love is in pretty bad shape right now.

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 02:16 AM
I really don't think it's time to panic yet for the Saints.

They have the bye week to regroup, to move on from Duece and gameplan around Bush as their full-time back (good things will happen when Reggie touches the ball 20 times a game). Less power running, more spread offense imo, get Lance Moore on the field (is it just me or is he the best receiver not named Colston on the roster right now?) and spread those defenses out for Bush and Brees to attack.

Most importantly, the biggest focus should be on the offensive line picking up its play, they have to. Now that Bush is staying on the field instead of having to leave, the Saints can think about running more no-huddle to try to wear opposing defenses down, helping their athletic-but-not-maulers offensive linemen out some as we saw on at least one of the Saints' scoring drives tonight The Saints fortunately have the veteran quarterback in Drew Brees who can handle it.

The schedule is still favorable for them to win the wild card, if not the division (seriously). The next game is a division game against Carolina in Week 5, there's a great chance to not only get the first win but also a division win which is doubly important.

Goddamn, Geo. You have more faith than any Saint fan on this board (or any other board) has. Kudos to you, but it will take a miracle for us to start to turn our fortunes around. I'm already debating on Dorsey/Long/Baker.

Geo
09-25-2007, 02:54 AM
The Saints showed me signs of life/improvement tonight, admittedly moreso on the offense. They're getting better, though work is still needed. If I had one major area of concern, it's how bad Brees' mechanics were for most of the game, but I can directly point to the constant pressure in his face which constantly got him off his spot, a recipe for defensive success against any quarterback.

I really hated this match-up for the Saints, I knew the Titans would give them fits. I see these guys twice a year, I saw them a week ago with Haynesworth finally living up to his potential because he's in a contract year. It's hard to run on these guys, and they can hurt you dropping back in coverage when they know you're one-dimensional (hence 4 interceptions for Drew Brees tonight). Keep in mind they'd be even better if they had Pac-man Jones, who more often than not can shut down your #1 wide receiver in man coverage and provide big punt return ability. You can't expect big plays against this defense, you've got to be patient and move the chains.

I know the pass defense looks bad against the Titans, Vince Young was throwing sharp passes around the field to his receivers, but it's so hard to get to Young thanks to his great offensive line and the fantastic job offensive coordinator Norm Chow does for his offense. The line gives Young time to deliver the ball, and if not, he's out of the pocket and hard as heck to get to. The Saints could have the best scout team in the league, but it's hard to accurately recreate the Titans for the first time in a week, and it didn't help that the Saints aren't playing their best ball on either side of the ball right now.

In my opinion, completely chalk this up to facing a tough opponent the Saints weren't particularly familiar with and who got the best of the Saints, much like the Colts in Week 1. Maybe the two toughest games on their schedule that are now over with. I would take solace that they showed signs of improvement and definitely look forward to playing the Panthers at home in less than two weeks. The Panthers offensive line has been a bit faulty the last two weeks, and their pass defense isn't particularly stout either right now.

The one thing though, as much as the media wants to talk about the big plays from last year and how they're missing this year, I think the Saints are better off being patient and focusing on moving the chains methodically. It's not going to come as easy this year, defenses know a good deal of what to expect from the Saints and are keeping everything in front of them.

Forget most of the gimmicks and focus on creating 3rd and very manageable imo. Sean Payton was getting better at this as the game wore on until the 4th quarter when Laboy's forced fumble/recovery changed the game and the score got out of hand.

etk
09-25-2007, 07:34 AM
It's air it out time for the Saints. Bush just isn't a feature back, and he never will be. How many yards did he average per touch last night, 2 or 3?

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 10:37 AM
It's air it out time for the Saints. Bush just isn't a feature back, and he never will be. How many yards did he average per touch last night, 2 or 3?

Did you watch how our offensive line was blocking that entire game?

Man, the way people like to discredit that fact amuses me.

bigbluedefense
09-25-2007, 10:56 AM
What happened to the oline? Last year, at least you can do 3 step drops. This year, even those don't work. The line is playing horriblely. And its the same unit as last year, I don't get it.

Brees is just plain playing bad as well. Can't ignore that fact either. Sean Payton's play calling has been figured out as well. That could be a scary situation.

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 10:59 AM
What happened to the oline? Last year, at least you can do 3 step drops. This year, even those don't work. The line is playing horriblely. And its the same unit as last year, I don't get it.

Hell if I know, BBD. Hell if I know. :confused:

soybean
09-25-2007, 01:35 PM
Yeah...it does...but it goes in here because I HATE how overrated Reggie Bush is. He's a good WR and KR/PR but man alive as a RB he blows. I've been saying this all along. He played in the Pac10, and until he learns that NFL is faster than the Pac10 and he can't just wait for things to develop and let other people make his plays for him. Bush in space can be scary, very scary, but Bush as a RB makes me a very VERY happy man when I see him back there and not Deuce.

i hate this arguement. So apparently only good rbs can come from the SEC ACC and big 10? please... where's steven jackson from? where's MJD from? where's justin fargas from? where's marshawn lynch from?

you can't trivialize what bush did in college because of the conference he played in. They played many tough out of conference schools as well.

soybean
09-25-2007, 01:40 PM
He saying that if Reggie Bush was as good of a player as he's hyped to be. He is supposed to be "Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk." That's really the only reason Bush has such a bullseye whenever he doesn't do very well. It's the media's fault.

In all fairness to bush, the media isn't really saying stuff like that anymore. Just last weekend Terry Bradshaw said he'd definitely take AD over bush, and the others agreed, as a running back. And yesterday, I believe it was Kornheiser and jaws that said reggie bush is overrated when just 2 years ago jaws was saying Bush was the best football player in the world.

Also, considering the commercials. Companies aren't just going to drop them from their advertising campaigns when they spent so much money on him already, also the consequences of voiding a contract.

So the hype really as bad as it was when he was first coming into the league so I don't know what a lot of people are complaining about now.

iloxygenil
09-25-2007, 01:42 PM
i f***ing hate this arguement. So apparently only good rbs can come from the SEC ACC and big 10? please... where's steven jackson from? where's MJD from? where's justin fargas from? where's marshawn lynch from?

you can't trivialize what bush did in college because of the conference he played in. They played many tough out of conference schools as well.
Nope...they didn't...to be honest Bush was wildly successful but only because his surrounding talent was so good. Bush was fast in college...he's above average in the NFL but he's just not in that 'elite' category anymore. He's not one of the 5 fastest players in the league. He was faster than just about everyone in college.

Also the thing is those backs learned how to translate to the NFL because they are strong runners not run around and dance guys...Bush still has to learn, to say the PAC10 is as fast as the NFL would be completely foolish.

The Saints are now in trouble. Bush has to mature NOW...he has to change his game...NOW...the Saints have to have him step up. They over achieved last year, but the expectations are there, they can't afford to slip back into what they were before...a 3-6 win team...which is what they look like. Putting Brees under pressure is what killed him in SD...he's kinda like Harrington in that fact...so if they can protect him things will turn around.

soybean
09-25-2007, 01:48 PM
Nope...they didn't...to be honest Bush was wildly successful but only because his surrounding talent was so good. Bush was fast in college...he's above average in the NFL but he's just not in that 'elite' category anymore. He's not one of the 5 fastest players in the league. He was faster than just about everyone in college.

Also the thing is those backs learned how to translate to the NFL because they are strong runners not run around and dance guys...Bush still has to learn, to say the PAC10 is as fast as the NFL would be completely foolish.


I can't really say one thing or another about bush because as far as I know, he could never develop. But, Im just saying that the PAC-10 doesn't necessarily only produce scrub Rbs. Where as all the other conferences only produce quality tailbacks.

iloxygenil
09-25-2007, 01:56 PM
No one is saying that...the Pac 10 just doesn't have the same level of competition. However...this year they seem to be stepping up.

619
09-25-2007, 02:19 PM
reggie bush always needs that other guy and deuce isnt that guy this year and i think hes over the hill so if the saints really do that bad i would love to see them draft darren mcfadden. sounds crazy now but i think it would turn around reggies career and mcfadden is used to having that other guy too with felix jones there.

soybean
09-25-2007, 03:25 PM
the problem with reggie bush is he's too "excited?" He doesn't run, he kind of hop step skips (kind of like he's jumping). he needs a more fluid motion like LT, run forward a little bit and then make your cuts all in one motion. Majority of the time i see him carrying the ball, as soon as he gets the handoff he goes left.

iloxygenil
09-25-2007, 03:27 PM
Investing in McFaddden...it'd be fun...but it's not what you guys need. You need a defense that can stop SOMEONE from scoring. They are pathetic, you guys should consider Dorsey, Rey, or someone like that to help your line. You have to be able to control the line of scrimmage...you can get a back in mid-later rounds to be the pound it up the gut guy (same thing the Falcons are going to be looking for) to take the pressure off Bush. But you have to be able to keep someone out of the endzone and force them to field goals. Right now your defense couldn't stop anyone. MLB, DT, and CB are the top positions of need for the Saints as far as I can tell. You don't need another playmaker on offense, can't share the ball enough, that was the problem already with Deuce...wouldn't let him get enough touches because of the demands to use Bush by the public.

TigerBait45
09-25-2007, 03:29 PM
Well he tore his ACL so hes out for the year, but if he were healthy I'd disagree that hes over the hill.

The guy was coming off a knee injury last year and ran for 1000 yards and 10 tds as the focal point of the offense. This year..he was being used as a complimentary player to Reggie Bush, which is just stupid. 10 carries a game is not nearly enough for McAllister to make the impact they expect from him.

It doesn't matter now, though..Reggie's going to have to step up or they're gonna have to force feed Aaron Stecker.

McFadden would be fun to watch with Reggie, but hes really not a pick the Saints need to make. I know in my heart of hearts that he'd be the pick over a guy like Dorsey or Dan Connor with Sean Payton making the picks though..and that scares me.

Shiver
09-26-2007, 10:36 PM
A CBS Sportsline article entitled "Bush is fast becoming 21st-century Mandarich."

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/1

TigerBait45
09-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Did he really put Bo Jackson on that list? And he wants people to take him seriously?

..Bo Jackson? Just wow.

soybean
09-26-2007, 11:24 PM
A CBS Sportsline article entitled "Bush is fast becoming 21st-century Mandarich."

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/1

were you smiling while reading the article?

Geo
09-27-2007, 12:08 AM
A CBS Sportsline article entitled "Bush is fast becoming 21st-century Mandarich."

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/1
I stopped reading at CBS Sportsline.

soybean
09-27-2007, 01:02 AM
A CBS Sportsline article entitled "Bush is fast becoming 21st-century Mandarich."

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/1

eh... I don't really know why you posted this article. You can go to google news type in reggie bush and there's a lot of the same articles.

If you think you're in some kind of minority sippin the reggie bush hateraid, you're not, there's hundreds of reporters who feel the same way.

Shiver
09-27-2007, 01:19 AM
The media giveth the hype and if it is not satisfied the media will turn on you in a heartbeat. I saw it first hand with Michael Vick. He went from being the great thing since sliced bread ('03) to being a terrible passer, over-hyped, overrated, over-payed, running back masquerading as a quarterback in the eyes of the media. If Bush doesn't impress, and soon, he will be easy to hate. Once again people will be jumping on mah bandwagon. I didn't like Bush as a prospect and nothing he's done has changed my mind.

Caddy
09-27-2007, 01:38 AM
I liked Reggie as a prospect and still like him in the pro's however not as an every down back. A role he may now be forced to play courtesy of the injury to Deuce. He is a great change-of-pace, receiver out of the back field kind of guy and excels in that role. Maybe Reggie will prove everyone wrong in the coming weeks. Who knows? It will certainly be interesting to find out.

Shiver
09-27-2007, 03:20 AM
If he does I will give him a lot of credit. I'm just pretty confident he won't magically become the player he's been hyped and paid to be. Even some of the Saints fans like Diabsoule are coming around to the idea that just maybe Bush isn't all that he's cracked up to be.

etk
09-27-2007, 06:10 PM
I liked Reggie as a prospect and still like him in the pro's however not as an every down back. A role he may now be forced to play courtesy of the injury to Deuce. He is a great change-of-pace, receiver out of the back field kind of guy and excels in that role. Maybe Reggie will prove everyone wrong in the coming weeks. Who knows? It will certainly be interesting to find out.

Is a player like that worth even close to a #2 overall pick. I never thought so.

Chucky
09-27-2007, 06:13 PM
Is a player like that worth even close to a #2 overall pick. I never thought so.

Reggie was the only pick that would have made sense for them, other than trading down, reggie was their only real option( considering they had brees)

etk
09-27-2007, 06:16 PM
Reggie was the only pick that would have made sense for them, other than trading down, reggie was their only real option( considering they had brees)

AJ Hawk???

TigerBait45
09-27-2007, 08:31 PM
AJ Hawk probably would've made way more sense all things considered. The front office bought into the hype, I guess.

619
09-27-2007, 09:26 PM
just cant wait til reggie proves all u haters wrong

Green Bay Scat
09-27-2007, 09:29 PM
just cant wait til reggie proves all u haters wrong

Reggie Bush is a glorified WR playing RB. if u put Bolden as a RB, hed probably have more Rushing yards. At Least he can truck/stiff arm a CB

TigerBait45
09-27-2007, 10:49 PM
just cant wait til reggie proves all u haters wrong

I'm not a hater..but looking back AJ Hawk probably made the most sense.

I think Reggie's got some growing up to do before hes a capable running back in the NFL, but I also think that hes got every shred of talent that you need to be a good player. He just..has to work on it.

Shiver
09-27-2007, 11:12 PM
Nothing is a bigger cop-out then the "you are all haters" line. That's the last ditch effort when the facts don't support your case.

Caddy
09-28-2007, 02:12 AM
Is a player like that worth even close to a #2 overall pick. I never thought so.

I didn't say that, and no, I didn't think he was worth the #2 pick. I still saw him as a top 1st round guy though.

Shiver
10-07-2007, 08:59 PM
Well Reggie Bush got more carries, with more of the same results.

thule
10-07-2007, 09:05 PM
I like how 3/4ths of the thread is people coming out saying i didn't think reggie was worth the #2 overall pick. A majority of draft followers and scouts thought he was the overall consensus number 1 prospect in this draft.

Flyboy
10-07-2007, 11:16 PM
Nothing is a bigger cop-out then the "you are all haters" line. That's the last ditch effort when the facts don't support your case.

No, I think "haters" is a very accurate term to the attention that Bush receives. Especially on this forum. I mean, there's a Reggie Bush THREAD -- cased closed. The term 'haters' is used when there is constant criticism is aimed towards someone (doesn't even have to be an athlete) and when that person doesn't live up to expectations, people love to sit back and say, "Hrm, well, see? I told ya so." So, yes, there are tons of Bush haters on this forum in general.

Well Reggie Bush got more carries, with more of the same results.

Did you happen to watch the game? Did you not notice that our run blocking and lanes were non-existent? Yet he still had over 100 yards in total offense. And, he was the only player that actually had a pulse and nearly willed our offense/team to a win today. So, yeah, I'll take that every week from Bush.

Shiver
10-07-2007, 11:23 PM
I like how 3/4ths of the thread is people coming out saying i didn't think reggie was worth the #2 overall pick. A majority of draft followers and scouts thought he was the overall consensus number 1 prospect in this draft.

I remember there was a small contingent at the time, captained by your's truly, and now the band-wagon has loaded up. Hindsight is a major factor. It really cracks me up when people say Peyton Manning was the greatest QB prospect ever, even when there was significant debate going back and forth regarding him and Ryan Leaf.

Shiver
10-07-2007, 11:34 PM
Flyboy, you seem very heated. Though this is a "rant" thread, so I cannot really blame you.

Average OT LB
10-08-2007, 12:29 AM
Well Reggie Bush got more carries, with more of the same results.

well i think he was the only bright spot on a lousy saints offense.. plus he was ripping it up in the first half and he got hurt and slowed down alot.. yeah injuries are part of the game, but he did play through it which goes to his credit..

i watched the game, he looked real good.

Shiver
10-08-2007, 03:30 AM
Well they need him bad. I still cannot get over Drew Brees' 1:9 TD/INT ratio.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2007, 09:32 AM
I like how 3/4ths of the thread is people coming out saying i didn't think reggie was worth the #2 overall pick. A majority of draft followers and scouts thought he was the overall consensus number 1 prospect in this draft.



I thought he was worth it. Did I ever think he'd be Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders? No. If the Saints used him more like the did last year, I'd take him #2.

619
12-27-2007, 01:14 AM
Be patient with the guy, hes still learning his position and will come through. Similar to Michael Vick and Vince Young people are trying to make him someone hes not and should just accept him for the prospect he is. The flashes hes showed at times this season is encouraging going into next season.

Caddy
12-27-2007, 05:27 AM
Be patient with the guy, hes still learning his position and will come through. Similar to Michael Vick and Vince Young people are trying to make him someone hes not and should just accept him for the prospect he is. The flashes hes showed at times this season is encouraging going into next season.

Well the Saints have given him 2 years so far and he has been decent but has not even come close to what was expected of him. RB is traditionally a position where players don't take long to adapt and/or learn the position. See Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, MJD, Jo Addai, Laurence Maroney, Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson etc; players from only the last 3 drafts who all made huge splashes immediately.

The Reggie Bush experiment is nowhere near finished in New Orleans, but they need to determine within the next 12-18 months how they should utilize his skill-set in a manner that best suits him and the team.

etk
12-27-2007, 10:17 AM
Reggie Bush=poor man's Chris Johnson. Maybe teams will learn their lesson and stop drafting prospects on hype (Bush, Young, etc). Some players just don't translate well to the NFL.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
12-27-2007, 12:21 PM
The Reggie Bush experiment is nowhere near finished in New Orleans, but they need to determine within the next 12-18 months how they should utilize his skill-set in a manner that best suits him and the team.

I honestly think he'd be best utilized as a slot receiver and return man... but you'd be talking about one expensive slot WR/RS. I say give him another year to show some of his supposed "big play" ability, and if we don't see anything more from him, end this Reggie experiment early.

etk
12-27-2007, 12:49 PM
I honestly think he'd be best utilized as a slot receiver and return man... but you'd be talking about one expensive slot WR/RS. I say give him another year to show some of his supposed "big play" ability, and if we don't see anything more from him, end this Reggie experiment early.

I sdisappointed when the Saints took Meachem because I thought Reggie would eventually land that sort of role in the offense. I wouldn't panic if I was Sean Payton, just move Reggie to WR/SB and you have a great set of weapons across the field. Durable RBs aren't hard to find, Deuce isn't done yet, and Reggie can still be a 3rd down/shotgun back.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
12-27-2007, 01:33 PM
I sdisappointed when the Saints took Meachem because I thought Reggie would eventually land that sort of role in the offense. I wouldn't panic if I was Sean Payton, just move Reggie to WR/SB and you have a great set of weapons across the field. Durable RBs aren't hard to find, Deuce isn't done yet, and Reggie can still be a 3rd down/shotgun back.

I was disappointed when we took Meachem for a completely different reason, and I think that reason was as evident as ever last week against the Eagles. Anywho... sadly, I cannot agree with you on Deuce. He just turned 29 (today, actually - Happy Birthday Deuce), and a torn ACL in each knee over the course of 2 years means he'll likely never be the same back again. Who'd have thunk a year ago that we'd be in the market for a running back? I'm hoping for someone like BenJarvus Green-Ellis in about the 3rd round. I can't help but think it: Reggie isn't an NFL running back.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-27-2007, 06:11 PM
Remember when everyone said that if Bush was a WR he'd be the #1 WR prospect? I think it's time for a switch.

Rich Jr
12-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Remember when everyone said that if Bush was a WR he'd be the #1 WR prospect? I think it's time for a switch.BEEN time but Payton refuses. His ego is too big.

LonghornsLegend
12-27-2007, 06:24 PM
If Payton drafts another offensive guy in the 1st rd I think you guys should pickett outside the practice facility lol...Is Meachem expected to show something next year?? Because if he pans out he does make the offense more dynamic, and as shown if Bush has the right pieces around him he can be a force and he also makes the defense key on him when he is moving around alot...he just cant be "the guy", but if meachem develops and you guys find a big bruising back bush will be back to making plays

ATLDirtyBirds
12-27-2007, 07:02 PM
I'd wish I could be the head coach with someone like Bush on my team. I can only imagine some of the trick-plays, slot WR formations, WR screens, etc. I doubt Payton (or any other coach for that matter) would ever give this a shot, so I guess it's moot.

diabsoule
12-28-2007, 02:19 AM
I'd wish I could be the head coach with someone like Bush on my team. I can only imagine some of the trick-plays, slot WR formations, WR screens, etc. I doubt Payton (or any other coach for that matter) would ever give this a shot, so I guess it's moot.

The fans know this, and the fans of the teams in the Saints division know this, but Sean Payton doesn't. I tell you what, if I, or any Saints fan, was in charge of the organization during an offseason the Saints would be a team to be reckoned with. I have a lot of plans for the Saints offseason and while most of them are centered around bettering the defense, the use of Reggie Bush is key to the offense being successful.

619
12-28-2007, 02:32 AM
Remember when everyone said that if Bush was a WR he'd be the #1 WR prospect? I think it's time for a switch.

Honestly hes still got some great potential at the RB position and he was starting to come around slowly until he got injured. Next year he begins living up to expectations with some help from Deuce who will be back. Lets be patient people hes only 22 years old.

Auron
12-28-2007, 05:20 AM
I think he's best used as that special All-Purpose threat, where you can move him all around the formation..and use him as a receiver out of the backfield on the screens, swing passes, wheel routes. Split him out wide, and use him in the slot, as the Slot receiver, and on End-Arounds, and give him 10-12 carries a game, but he definitely isn't a back you can pound inside the tackles 20 or more times a game... at least not yet. Physically that took too much of a toll on him.

Honestly I don't think his hands are fully reliable to be a full time receiver he HAD a lot of Wide open drops this season on WR screens, and dump offs... not sure whether it was a case of him trying to run before he secured the catch but I really hope he improves the concentration aspect of his game.. because it's essential our Offense controls the clock and keeps the chains moving.

smittydafreak
12-29-2007, 08:04 AM
I like how 3/4ths of the thread is people coming out saying i didn't think reggie was worth the #2 overall pick. A majority of draft followers and scouts thought he was the overall consensus number 1 prospect in this draft.

Only shows you what scouts really know beyond College Stats and Combine results.

Smart football guys, including Parcells, have long said you never use an early 1st round pick for guy who IF FULL TIME IN HIS DEFINED ROLE can't play for 8++ years. Also never use it for a role player.

Not one person felt Bush was a full time RB in the NFL. And most older NFL guys called him a scat back, a better Dante Hall, or a "Dave Meggett type" in Parcells case.

But hype is hype. Let me give you a few IMHO for this draft who produce but are not extraordinary at anything and will be underwhelming in the Pros given their #1 status -- Andre Woodson, DeSean Jackson, Calais Campbell, James Luarinitis ......... and there are a few more.

But it happens every draft with players who produce in college, have the physical tools but just are not "extraordinary enough" in anyone skill to justify their top tier draft status.

Reggie is a great athlete but not big enough for full time pounder, not shiffty enough or great vision like a Sanders, and not even the returner Hester is.

Who would you prefer now Jones Drew or Hester or Bush???