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View Full Version : Giants running some 3-4 this year?


bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 10:58 AM
Props to Jay for the picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/JayMJ99/patsgiants/pg3.jpg



I forgot to mention this before, but we've seen this formation a couple of times this PS. Looks like a 1 gap styled 3-4 front. I wonder if we'll be using this formation during the regular season. And if we do, will it be only on passing downs, or on 1st and 2nd as well?

And who would be manning the line? Im guessing Strahan and Tuck as ends, and perhaps Coffield at NT? I don't think this will be used all the time, but it would be interesting to see if we run some of this on passing downs.

I personally like our nickel front with Tuck at UT more. I think with our personnell, it works better. In that front, we had Kiwi and Osi at End, Tuck and Robbins at tackle. But now with Strahan back, Im guessing Strahan wil be at end, and I don't know if we'd sub out Kiwi on those downs, or he would stay as a standup rushbacker. Just something I wanted to point out.

scottyboy
09-07-2007, 11:04 AM
i like it. not as our base D, but to mix things up and confuse some D's. Kiwi and Osi are outstanding rushers off the edge, Strahan and Tuck would be good fits at 3-4 ends, but DT, i guess it would be Cofield. I'd like to see Chase and Antonio as our LB's in the middle, but it would probably be Mitchell. We are very deep at LB, Spags is creative, and we have diversity on the Dline. I wouldnt be surprised to see some mix ups and exotic packages...

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 11:08 AM
i like it. not as our base D, but to mix things up and confuse some D's. Kiwi and Osi are outstanding rushers off the edge, Strahan and Tuck would be good fits at 3-4 ends, but DT, i guess it would be Cofield. I'd like to see Chase and Antonio as our LB's in the middle, but it would probably be Mitchell. We are very deep at LB, Spags is creative, and we have diversity on the Dline. I wouldnt be surprised to see some mix ups and exotic packages...

we definately cannot use it as a base defense. We just don't have the dline for it. But I can see it having some success as a situational package. Id love to see what Osi can do as a rushbacker. I think he'd be an even better rushbacker than DE. And thats saying alot.

scottyboy
09-07-2007, 11:10 AM
yea there's 0 chance of it being our base D. but for some situations it could be very scary. Just imagine Tuck and Strahan being down lineman, with Kiwi and Osi, blitzing at you! if it's a passing down, perhaps Alford in the middle? for pass rush? he'd get run all over, but could be effective rushing the passer...

Damix
09-07-2007, 12:47 PM
we definately cannot use it as a base defense. We just don't have the dline for it. But I can see it having some success as a situational package. Id love to see what Osi can do as a rushbacker. I think he'd be an even better rushbacker than DE. And thats saying alot.


Really, I always felt if we did switch to the 3-4 fulltime, Osi would not be the best fit. I'll take your views over mine though on this as my x's and o's are pretty bad.

If Osi could make that transition, we actually do have a lot of pieces necessary for a 3-4. I'd love to see us running something like Miami does and use Kiwi and Osi like Taylor

Number 10
09-07-2007, 12:51 PM
On passing downs I think we'll see a lot of 5 man rush attacks with Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka, and Robbins all going for the QB (which can be scary good). I think Spags will find more than a few ways to get these guys rushing the passer and switching the fronts up a little won't be a big deal. We're still a 4-3 team but in today's NFL, you need variety.

Jughead10
09-07-2007, 01:20 PM
Who is the 3 man line in that picture? Also is that Torbor as the other ILB?

Number 10
09-07-2007, 01:42 PM
Who is the 3 man line in that picture? Also is that Torbor as the other ILB?

The 3 man line is (left to right) Tuck-Robbins-Cofield and I think Davis is that other LB, not 100% sure on that one. It isn't Torbor.

TimD
09-07-2007, 02:02 PM
that's what the Jets should be doing... Have a 4-3 as a base defense with ellis, robertson, coleman, thomas on the dline and hobson barton vilma in the back.... that'd be a great front 7... having those players move around in a 3-4 only plays to thomas and coleman's strengths but hurts vilma ellis robertson and barton

Number 10
09-07-2007, 02:08 PM
that's what the Jets should be doing... Have a 4-3 as a base defense with ellis, robertson, coleman, thomas on the dline and hobson barton vilma in the back.... that'd be a great front 7... having those players move around in a 3-4 only plays to thomas and coleman's strengths but hurts vilma ellis robertson and barton

Yeh but you're not the Giants, you just happen to play in our stadium.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:14 PM
that's what the Jets should be doing... Have a 4-3 as a base defense with ellis, robertson, coleman, thomas on the dline and hobson barton vilma in the back.... that'd be a great front 7... having those players move around in a 3-4 only plays to thomas and coleman's strengths but hurts vilma ellis robertson and barton

I never favored the switch to the 3-4 for the Jets, it just didn't fit at all. Its hard to question Mangini though, the man is a good coach. So I give him benefit of the doubt.


The hard bullet to bite for Jets fans is the realization that Vilma has to go. He just won't work in this scheme. We'll gladly give you a 3rd rounder for him. Tell Mangini to give me a call, we'll work out the details.

Jughead10
09-07-2007, 02:22 PM
I never favored the switch to the 3-4 for the Jets, it just didn't fit at all. Its hard to question Mangini though, the man is a good coach. So I give him benefit of the doubt.


The hard bullet to bite for Jets fans is the realization that Vilma has to go. He just won't work in this scheme. We'll gladly give you a 3rd rounder for him. Tell Mangini to give me a call, we'll work out the details.

Ha. If we are sticking with our current 4-3 scheme, Vilma would make a perfect WLB in it.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:23 PM
Our pass rush is gonna be deadly this year. I just hope the coverage holds up. Because theres no question in my mind, theres no way any team can block our pass rush when we send all 5 of our horses at them.

Now the trick is to stop the run, so we can get them to that point....

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:25 PM
Ha. If we are sticking with our current 4-3 scheme, Vilma would make a perfect WLB in it.

Id love to have him on our team. I wonder if the Jets would ever consider trading him. Theyd probably ask for a 1st rounder for him. Even then, Vilma is worth it.

Number 10
09-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Our pass rush is gonna be deadly this year. I just hope the coverage holds up. Because theres no question in my mind, theres no way any team can block our pass rush when we said all our 5 of our horses at them.

Now the trick is to stop the run, so we can get them to that point....

We looked lethal against the run against Baltimore and the Jets. I like our front 7.

Defensively it's no secret....can we force turnovers and stop the short to intermediate passing game.

Number 10
09-07-2007, 02:39 PM
Id love to have him on our team. I wonder if the Jets would ever consider trading him. Theyd probably ask for a 1st rounder for him. Even then, Vilma is worth it.

Eh...Not sure I'd give them a 1st. If he were actually put onto the block I would look more seriously into what kind of package we could offer. Maybe a player with a 2nd?

But don't sleep on Kawika...he impressed me in the short time he has seen the field and I think he could stick here. Seems like a NY kind of 'backer and he fits our scheme.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
09-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Not agiants fan, but I like the 3-4. Not from a personel stand point, but for nastalia purposes.

I am not sure your coverage will matter much. I think the pass rush will mask any flaws yall have.

Giants are not my pick to win the division, but I cant honestly say Iwould be surprised if they did. I love the recievers, and Jacobs. The d-line is really good, too.

By the way, I watched Ross in college a lot. I think he was a good choice.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:43 PM
We looked lethal against the run against Baltimore and the Jets. I like our front 7.

Defensively it's no secret....can we force turnovers and stop the short to intermediate passing game.

I think our true first test will be Dallas. Baltimore actually ran well when they put Andersen in place of McGahee. McGahee danced too much, the few touches that Andersen got he drove right through the middle of our D, which is the part that scares me.

And the Jets, no Thomas Jones, and their oline isn't as good as Dallas. So I think our first true test is the Cowboys, they have a great interior runblocking core, and a great 1,2 RB punch, and Barber knows how to run up the gut. So thats gonna be a huge test for this unit. If we can win that battle, I like our chances alot. If they don't, itll be up to Eli to win the game for us on offense.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:47 PM
Eh...Not sure I'd give them a 1st. If he were actually put onto the block I would look more seriously into what kind of package we could offer. Maybe a player with a 2nd?

But don't sleep on Kawika...he impressed me in the short time he has seen the field and I think he could stick here. Seems like a NY kind of 'backer and he fits our scheme.

How old is Kawika? Id love for him to work out, and he has shown great flashes so far. Im not ready to commit to him just yet though. And Im still dying to see if Wilkinson can be the guy they envisioned, or if we have to move on.

If we stick with this current defensive system for the long haul, i want us to beef up the DT duo, and get more speed in the LB core. And it might sound crazy, but Id consider trading AP. Because with this current system, its beneficial to have an athletic MIKE. We need more coverage out of our unit, especially if Kiwi is sent on the blitz from the SAM position as much as we want to. That requires a better coverage MIKE who can chase the TE down the seem, and AP won't hack it as that guy. Im getting way ahead of myself here though. Im just throwing it out there.

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Not agiants fan, but I like the 3-4. Not from a personel stand point, but for nastalia purposes.

I am not sure your coverage will matter much. I think the pass rush will mask any flaws yall have.

Giants are not my pick to win the division, but I cant honestly say Iwould be surprised if they did. I love the recievers, and Jacobs. The d-line is really good, too.

By the way, I watched Ross in college a lot. I think he was a good choice.

I hope so. Ross hasn't looked too spectacular in PS so far. I think he has a ways to go development wise. He'll make a bigger impact next year opposed to this year.

robert_in_bigd
09-07-2007, 03:49 PM
Hey BBD,

Go get Carpenter for SOLB and Vilma for WLB. Pierce in the middle.

Now that is one hell of a LB corps which is doable if Reece is a go getter.

Number 10
09-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Hey BBD,

Go get Carpenter for SOLB and Vilma for WLB. Pierce in the middle.

Now that is one hell of a LB corps which is doable if Reece is a go getter.

Why not Woodley to play MLB?

Number 10
09-07-2007, 03:58 PM
How old is Kawika? Id love for him to work out, and he has shown great flashes so far. Im not ready to commit to him just yet though. And Im still dying to see if Wilkinson can be the guy they envisioned, or if we have to move on.

If we stick with this current defensive system for the long haul, i want us to beef up the DT duo, and get more speed in the LB core. And it might sound crazy, but Id consider trading AP. Because with this current system, its beneficial to have an athletic MIKE. We need more coverage out of our unit, especially if Kiwi is sent on the blitz from the SAM position as much as we want to. That requires a better coverage MIKE who can chase the TE down the seem, and AP won't hack it as that guy. Im getting way ahead of myself here though. Im just throwing it out there.

Kawika is 27 and does not have a lot of wear and tear on his body.

Sorry but trading AP would be a baad idea. He isn't THAT slow in coverage but he seemed to be more of a liability than he actually is because the OLBs and Demps were never close to being where they should be in the middle of the field. He brings way too much to the table on the field and in the locker room for me to even think about the possibility of trading him. I don't think I would even do Vilma for Pierce straight up....matter of fact no way would I do it. The Eagles D with Trotter, much more immobile than Pierce, was solid and Pierce has a ways to go before he isn't serviceable.

619
09-07-2007, 04:26 PM
i like it. not as our base D, but to mix things up and confuse some D's. Kiwi and Osi are outstanding rushers off the edge, Strahan and Tuck would be good fits at 3-4 ends, but DT, i guess it would be Cofield. I'd like to see Chase and Antonio as our LB's in the middle, but it would probably be Mitchell. We are very deep at LB, Spags is creative, and we have diversity on the Dline. I wouldnt be surprised to see some mix ups and exotic packages...

im not sure if strahan and osi would fit the mold of your typical 3-4 DE

Number 10
09-07-2007, 04:31 PM
im not sure if strahan and osi would fit the mold of your typical 3-4 DE

Osi would be a DE. Strahan is a better run stopping DE than most of the 3-4 DEs out there if not better. People just don't understand that about him because they look at his sack numbers and assume he just a pass rusher. I put him up there with the great DEs of all time because of what he does against the run.

robert_in_bigd
09-07-2007, 04:37 PM
Why not Woodley to play MLB?

This goes to my reading comprehension point about posters ..... but I will engage .... 3-4 or 4-3?

I think Pitt wants him as 3-4 OLB but we will see what happens once they go Tampa 2.... looks like DE in the future.

Regardless, you have Pierce for MLB dufus.

scottyboy
09-07-2007, 05:09 PM
This goes to my reading comprehension point about posters ..... but I will engage .... 3-4 or 4-3?

I think Pitt wants him as 3-4 OLB but we will see what happens once they go Tampa 2.... looks like DE in the future.

Regardless, you have Pierce for MLB dufus.

i believe he's regarding to a previous rant you went on in the NYG discussion about Woodley...

btw, if you keep insulting respected posters here(or any for that matter) bad things will happen to you

http://www.coffinitup.com/2005-update-2/coffin-cooler-open-2.jpg

btw, would you guys see Eric Foster being more successful in a 3-4 or 4-3(this is kinda still on topic)

bigbluedefense
09-07-2007, 05:14 PM
Kawika is 27 and does not have a lot of wear and tear on his body.

Sorry but trading AP would be a baad idea. He isn't THAT slow in coverage but he seemed to be more of a liability than he actually is because the OLBs and Demps were never close to being where they should be in the middle of the field. He brings way too much to the table on the field and in the locker room for me to even think about the possibility of trading him. I don't think I would even do Vilma for Pierce straight up....matter of fact no way would I do it. The Eagles D with Trotter, much more immobile than Pierce, was solid and Pierce has a ways to go before he isn't serviceable.

He can definately work, but our system is slightly different from Philly's. We're blitzing Kiwi alot, and the MIKE has to chase the TE down the seam when that happens. Thats very similar to what Lewis did with Pierce last year in his hybrid Tampa 2 scheme. And Pierce can't do that. Now, with a better SS, yeah that can minimize his issues, and we can get Pierce to do what he does best, but schematically, I think we'd be better with a quicker MIKE.

Thats tough for me to say, because Pierce is my favorite guy on defense. But I look at Philly's defense this year, and I see how its built, and Im starting to think that maybe if we run this system as well, that we need to do what they did and go with a quicker MIKE. They have much better DTs though, which allows them to go with the smaller quicker MIKE.

Im not suggesting this move to be something we do right away, but more of a long term transition. If we keep this defensive system, its gonna take a good 3 years before we have it where we need it. And over that course of time, we should develop a quick MIKE in the wings, because 3 years from now Pierce will be older and slower.

robert_in_bigd
09-07-2007, 05:41 PM
btw, if you keep insulting respected posters here(or any for that matter) bad things will happen to you

Then the insulted poster should not make up stuff that I did not say. Hard to get folks to read and comprehend. Even worse when they shot off the hip trying to mock you.

All I ever said about Woodley was that he was mentioned as a possible MLB project but it seems he is much much much better suited to be a catalytic player on the edge.

My only real Q on him is 4-3 DE in a Tampa II?

Number 10
09-07-2007, 08:37 PM
This goes to my reading comprehension point about posters ..... but I will engage .... 3-4 or 4-3?

I think Pitt wants him as 3-4 OLB but we will see what happens once they go Tampa 2.... looks like DE in the future.

Regardless, you have Pierce for MLB dufus.

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

robert_in_bigd
09-07-2007, 09:43 PM
You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Uh, no, I think you imagining what you wish to imagine.

You are trying to imply that I said Woodley was going to be moved to a MLB. This is 100% false. Clearly not Tampa II backer. Nor was this his ideal spot given his skills.

What you should have inferred is that I had read (and agree) he could play MLB in a attacking 4-3 scheme or BP 3-4 scheme.

Let us talk Cowboys Giants however and not be so nasty .......

So how many TDs for Shockey?