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Shiver
09-08-2007, 01:06 AM
Post your analysis of the other teams in the division here. Be mindful of the rules. Direct your hatred of, say, the Buccaneers at the actual team and no one poster in particular. Debate the argument, not the poster.

My general thoughts to start this behemoth are:

Bucs: The Buccaneers' offense will look better, but not great. I do like Cadillac for a bounce back. The O-Line will be better. I just don't like Garcia, I think he will play like he did in Cleveland and Detroit. Certainly not what he did last year. I don't think Gruden has confidence in him either, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to convince Plummer to play. Their defense has slowly and surely been went from a strength in the Dungy era to a weakness in the Gruden regime. What few defensive players they have from "the glory days" are well past their prime and on the slippery slope to retirement. They have some young pieces on this unit, but it seems like a year in transition at the very least.

Panthers: I'm not sure what this team does well. First of all you have to love Smith and Peppers, that's obvious. I like Kris Jenkins, I like the athletic LB corp. (when Morgan is actually healthy, which is never) and I like DeAngelo Williams. My problem is with Jake Delhomme, John Fox and that secondary. First off Delhomme's erratic play kept them from being a playoff team last year and I think it's to the point where he is what he is. Why John Fox is so insistent on giving Foster the nod is beyond me, Williams' in my mind should be the feature back with Foster riding the pine for most of the game. On defense their secondary underachieved last year, Gamble regressed, Lucas was on and off again hurt, Marshall actually outplayed them both. Their safeties are still terrible. Speaking of terrible, their LT is Travelle Wharton, which makes all the other division opponents (Adams, Smith and Abraham) very happy he is still the starter.

Saints: I don't think Thursday's travesty is an indication of how their offense is going to perform. They have too much talent and Sean Payton does make adjustments. Drew Brees, in particular, I haven't seen him play that way since he was in San Diego back before they drafted Rivers to replace him. I'm not crazy about the O-Line, but they should play better going forward. That being said, I think Thursday's game was a strong indication of things to come for that defense. Quite frankly it is horrible. They are starting Antwan Lake at DT! He was a reserve D-Lineman for Atlanta, even when the team was the worst team in the league against the run. How he is starting is ridiculous. Their linebackers are mediocre at best; the secondary is even worse than that. In fact they would love to be called mediocre!

Falcons: This just has been the worst off-season imaginable. I came to the realization that Michael Vick was never going to be a transcendent QB in the NFL last year, he was a below average passer that "made up for it" with his legs. With him the team was staring at mediocrity and inconsistency. I would still take that over Harrington, one pre-season performance against the sad sap Bengals' secondary aside. The defense should be solid, they could even be great if the young guys in the secondary get it together. On offense it is a rebuilding year for sure. The team lacks a forceful north-south runner to compliment Dunn/Norwood, the receivers are inconsistent and unproven, the team has a horrible LT and Harrington's track record is not good. I think, unfortunately, Atlanta has the makings of a 5-6 win team in '07. The only chance otherwise is if Harrington magically becomes Joey "Heisman" again.

diabsoule
09-08-2007, 04:29 AM
I can't say enough how mad I am with the Saints for starting both Antwan Lake and Mark Simoneau on defense. Our starting DT's should be Hollis Thomas at NT and Kendrick Clancy playing the gap. Then have Brian Simmons playing the Mike. I don't know we kept Thomas on our roster if we aren't going to play him and I also don't know why we went after Brian Simmons if all he is going to do is back up Mark Simoneau.
Also, our defense should be more zone based. Our corners just do not have the speed or physicality to play man coverage. It irritates me when the answers are so obvious yet the coaching staff is trying to prove a point. "Hollis showed up at camp overweight so we're going to punish him." "Mark Simoneau looked great in camp so he's starting." All of that is b.s. Who continually collapsed the pocket last year and demanded double teams which in turn freed up Brian Young to get sacks and pressure the passer? Hollis Thomas. Who wore down as the season progressed and is just a mediocre MLB at best? Mark Simoneau.

Caddy
09-08-2007, 04:31 AM
Post your analysis of the other teams in the division here. Be mindful of the rules. Direct your hatred of, say, the Buccaneers at the actual team and no one poster in particular. Debate the argument, not the poster.


Thanks for the love Shiver.

But anyway, here is how I see each team in the NFC South.

Buccaneers: The team is in somewhat of a rebuilding phase but with the signings of Carter, Garcia and Petitgout one really has to question Grudens motives. The defense saw an infusion of talent with Adams, Piscitelli, Black and Jackson all potential future starters but until they acclimatise to the NFL the Bucs will have another mediocre year. The Achilles heel of recent seasons, the O-Line, is substantially improving and will be a great help this season but with a 37 year old QB and no real star at backup (although McCown and Gradkowski are intriguing), the Bucs probably won't improve by leaps and bounds. If Cadillac can get it going again, that would be a great help.

Saints: Great offense, despite not getting it going against Colts. Colston, Brees, Bush, Henderson and McCallister are great and the offensive line is going to improve as the year goes on providing the Saints with the ability to score points. However the defensive side of the ball is another story. They have possibly the best pair of ends in the game, but their interior line is horrible and really needs to be addressed. The secondary and linebacking corp aren't much better either. If they can improve the defense they will be a tough team to beat.

Panthers: The panthers are a team I really don't know how to gauge. On one hand I could see the likes of Smith and Foster/Williams dominating, but on the other hand, Delhomme's inconsistency could really hurt their offense. Their defensive line is well above average and Peppers is a beast, their LB corp is great and so are their top 3 CB's with safety the only real problem for Carolina's defense. If they can get it all together and play consistently they could do some damage.

Falcons: Finally the Falcons. They had a horrendous off-season. I bet they are regretting the Schaub trade now. Honestly, I have no idea what to expect from the team. Harrington is starter by default and behind him there is very little to be happy about. Their defense is average and they will play a crucial role in keeping them in games this year. I am really intrigued to see how they adjust to an offense without Vick who was a game breaker. Maybe Petrino will be able to create some magic but I'm not getting my hopes up.

d34ng3l021
09-08-2007, 05:32 PM
Whoa whoa whoa guys. Keep the smack talk clean.

Jeez.

Shiver
09-08-2007, 09:09 PM
I don't know. I trashed the Panthers pretty hard.

Dam8610
09-09-2007, 07:57 PM
This division looked bad this week. Carolina was okay, but the rest? Ugh.

diabsoule
09-09-2007, 08:24 PM
I thought Atlanta would have fared way better against Minnesota. If they don't get their act together then they might have the season many are expecting.

Shiver
09-09-2007, 09:28 PM
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/lou/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/834222.jpeg

Brian Brohm: First off I'd like to say how excited to be reunited with coach Petrino. Being the #1 overall pick is exciting, in and of itself, but coming into this situation is truly something special. I'm excited to get into camp and take steps to become the face of the franchise and leader of this team.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/03/27/PH2007032702127.jpg

Rich McKay: To me this was clearly the correct decision. Anytime you have the first pick in the draft there is inherent risk. So whenever you can add a player whom the coaching staff is already familiar with it is a tremendous advantage. Obviously this team is in desperate need of a leader, on and off the field. With Brian he combines great play with great character.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/40/404930.jpg

Bobby Petrino: Obviously were excited to work with Brian again. He brings tremendous leadership to our team. He brings everything you look for in a Quarterback. He is already fluent in our terminology and the majority of our play-book. He will come in from day-1 and will take this team to where we want to be.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/03/27/PH2007032702127.jpg

Rich McKay: Now I will open this up to questions.

http://www.maynardije.org/columns/dickprince/070131_prince/moore.jpg

Terrence Moore: How do you envision Brian Brohm playing in the shadow of Michael Vick?


http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/03/27/PH2007032702127.jpg

Rich McKay: Brian Brohm is our Quarterback, period. We will not talk about that situation, not now, not ever.

scar988
09-10-2007, 11:00 PM
add in:


McKay = "The cap room Vick freed up will allow us to put some people in who will actually pass protect for Brohm as well as re-sign guys like DeAngelo [Hall] and Demorrio [Williams]. Vick on the other hand has no shadow on the team. He was a lockerroom cancer and is now gone. anymore questions about Vick shall cease and desist."

Shiver
09-11-2007, 01:53 AM
That would be a good one.

diabsoule
09-11-2007, 03:07 AM
Maybe after the big turd the Saints laid on the field defensively against the Colts it will finally convince Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis to draft an impact defensive player in the 1st Round rather than the 2nd or 3rd Rds.

d34ng3l021
09-11-2007, 03:46 AM
Man. I want Brohm so much. I am hearing so many good things about him. Add on to the fact that he already is familiar with the system...He could be our Carson Palmer.

He seems like a good kid who could become the face of the Falcons.

Caddy
09-11-2007, 08:38 AM
You aren't the only team who is in the mix for him. If the Bucs have a shot at him he would be a legitimate selection.

d34ng3l021
09-11-2007, 01:27 PM
Yeah I know. I would be pretty pissed if you guys got him.

Shiver
09-11-2007, 01:32 PM
Maybe after the big turd the Saints laid on the field defensively against the Colts it will finally convince Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis to draft an impact defensive player in the 1st Round rather than the 2nd or 3rd Rds.

You mean drafting a WR, only to "redshirt" him, isn't going to help the football team in the here and now? :eek:

TigerBait45
09-11-2007, 01:32 PM
Maybe after the big turd the Saints laid on the field defensively against the Colts it will finally convince Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis to draft an impact defensive player in the 1st Round rather than the 2nd or 3rd Rds.

It would be nice, wouldn't it? Puz would've looked so good in a Saints jersey. Or even Chris Houston.

iloxygenil
09-11-2007, 01:51 PM
Houston looks good in Black and Red, so it's going to haunt you...

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-12-2007, 01:38 PM
Maybe after the big turd the Saints laid on the field defensively against the Colts it will finally convince Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis to draft an impact defensive player in the 1st Round rather than the 2nd or 3rd Rds.

But NOOOOOOOOOO, all I remember hearing was how Meachem was the "BPA" after the draft. I said it then and I'll say it now: Meachem was a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad pick. We needed defensive help.

The Colts game was simply a bad game for our offense, for whatever reason; that side of the ball will be fine. However, our defense will continue to stink it up throughout the season and once again be the reason why we come up short. We just don't have the guys in the secondary or at linebacker (aside from Fujita), and the run stopper that we DO have is riding pine. ******* awesome.

etk
09-13-2007, 01:42 PM
I agree with your analysis TPFKA. I thought it was absurd for the Saints to draft anyone on offense with their lack of talent at DT, LB and CB. Of course 99% of the posters on this board bashed me for saying they should have went CB no matter what. Chris Houston would've been exactly the physical and athletic man corner they needed, but now you guys are stuck with Jason David, Fred Thomas & Mike McKenzie (to a lesser degree) for another year. What happened to that guy who said Usama Young was the best thing since sliced bread and will start immediately? Those moments were enjoyable.

Without overreacting too much over the opening weekend, the Panthers will edge out the Saints by a game or two for the title. They seem committed to running the ball and Foster's play is a bonus since I figured DeAngelo would get the bulk of the carries. I still expect some inconsistency from Delhomme and the passing offense but right now it seems they have an identity on offense and enough talent on defense to squeak out some close victories. From what i remember the Panthers have an easy stretch to end the season and they could come from behind to close out the year as divisional champs quite easily (they're ahead now, though).

The Bucs & Falcons suck, so who cares. We'll just argue over what colors make Brian Brohm look the cutest.

Shiver
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
The Bucs & Falcons suck, so who cares. We'll just argue over what colors make Brian Brohm look the cutest.



Pewter is the color of choice for a pansy.

etk
09-13-2007, 02:18 PM
Pewter is the color of choice for a pansy.

Red & Black are the colors of a dead dog...

Shiver
09-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Was that a veiled Michael Vick reference? Oh how clever of you.

etk
09-13-2007, 02:24 PM
Was that a veiled Michael Vick reference? Oh how clever of you.

Nice avatar. Wanna spread the love and let me have one?

Shiver
09-13-2007, 02:30 PM
We have an elite ruling class here, so no you may not have one.

etk
09-13-2007, 02:36 PM
We have an elite ruling class here, so no you may not have one.

Screw elitism. I haven't had an infraction in over a week. That's more than enough to merit an avatar.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-13-2007, 05:13 PM
I agree with your analysis TPFKA. I thought it was absurd for the Saints to draft anyone on offense with their lack of talent at DT, LB and CB. Of course 99% of the posters on this board bashed me for saying they should have went CB no matter what. Chris Houston would've been exactly the physical and athletic man corner they needed, but now you guys are stuck with Jason David, Fred Thomas & Mike McKenzie (to a lesser degree) for another year. What happened to that guy who said Usama Young was the best thing since sliced bread and will start immediately? Those moments were enjoyable.

I caught so much flak for my outspokenness on how bad of a pick Meachem was from a few Saints fans around here after the draft. I'm not one to blindly agree with everything the team does just because I'm a fan; if anything, I think it makes me more of a fan to say hey, what the hell are we doing, guys? Unfortunately, those guys will be agreeing with me come January, if they aren't already after just week 1. We simply did not do enough to address the defense, and it WILL bite us in the ass.

Shiver
09-13-2007, 05:24 PM
I respect someone who can have and defend their own opinion. Far too many people fall in line whenever their team makes a questionable decision, or a player comes under fire. Look at the Patriots fans for a text book example of falling in line to defend their team, at all cost.

Speaking of aforementioned Saints homers defending the Meachem pick, I remember one in particular was convinced that Usama Young was a much better player than Chris Houston. Yet, Houston is already playing (well I might add) and where is Young again? The Meachem pick is even worse considering they are not even going to play him anytime soon. They aren't that good that they can stash their draft picks on the bench for a few years.

etk
09-13-2007, 06:30 PM
I caught so much flak for my outspokenness on how bad of a pick Meachem was from a few Saints fans around here after the draft. I'm not one to blindly agree with everything the team does just because I'm a fan; if anything, I think it makes me more of a fan to say hey, what the hell are we doing, guys? Unfortunately, those guys will be agreeing with me come January, if they aren't already after just week 1. We simply did not do enough to address the defense, and it WILL bite us in the ass.

These kinds of fans are always eminent and evident after draft-day. Most fans really don't formulate their own opinions on the draft and its prospects, and if they do their knowledge is limited to 1st-round prospects. I criticized the Bucs draft for passing on talent like Kalil, Jarrett, Blalock, Houston, C. Johnson etc. (all picked up by CAR/ATL) and reaching on other prospects to fill needs. Most of the other fans on this site argued with me, saying how we have a new fountain of youth on defense. Tanard Jackson is the only player we drafted to have a positive impact so far (other than top-5 pick Gaines Adams), and coincidentally he's the only player I supported drafting. I bashed the Piscitelli pick and sure enough he's sitting on the bench while Jermaine Phillips stepped up his play, plus Sabby made two poor plays on ST. It's the fans who support anyone their team picks/signs who are the biggest homers and become the most disappointed and frustrated after failure. It's good to see some fans here with sober thought processes.

I respect someone who can have and defend their own opinion. Far too many people fall in line whenever their team makes a questionable decision, or a player comes under fire. Look at the Patriots fans for a text book example of falling in line to defend their team, at all cost.

Speaking of aforementioned Saints homers defending the Meachem pick, I remember one in particular was convinced that Usama Young was a much better player than Chris Houston. Yet, Houston is already playing (well I might add) and where is Young again? The Meachem pick is even worse considering they are not even going to play him anytime soon. They aren't that good that they can stash their draft picks on the bench for a few years.

Exactly and exactly. I mentioned that guy before, and that's what I thought...where's Young now? That fan will most likely defend Young, saying he's just a small-school CB who needs time to learn the game. That brings up another one of my favorite things to see, persistent defense of a player. For example, the numerous Carolina fans who blame the offensive line for Carr's struggles, ignoring his play on the field and the length of his struggles.

TigerBait45
09-14-2007, 05:27 PM
I didn't particularly like the Meachem pick either, but I thought it made sense at the time. The Saints needed a receiver to replace Joe Horn and he seemed like the best one on the board, but man I was wanting Puz or Houston (or even Greg Olsen) reeeeeally badly on draft day. I figured for sure they'd address defense first and snag a receiver in the second or something. I was majorly disappointed when they didn't take one of those guys.

Usama Young is playing nickelback right now I believe, btw. Hes shown flashes in camp (from what I've heard) but hes still pretty raw. Hes a pretty good prospect but to say he looked better than Chris Houston is absurd.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-14-2007, 05:33 PM
I didn't particularly like the Meachem pick either, but I thought it made sense at the time. The Saints needed a receiver to replace Joe Horn and he seemed like the best one on the board, but man I was wanting Puz or Houston (or even Greg Olsen) reeeeeally badly on draft day. I figured for sure they'd address defense first and snag a receiver in the second or something. I was majorly disappointed when they didn't take one of those guys.

Why did the Saints need a receiver, exactly? They did more than fine with what they had last season, and all they lost was a washed-up and injury-prone Joe Horn, who didn't contribute all that much anyway. Patten alone is enough to replace the Joe Horn of today. Besides, Payton's offense doesn't really demand all-world receivers.

I'd go so far as to say that running back, quarterback, kicker and punter would have been the only positions that would have made for a worse first round pick.

TigerBait45
09-14-2007, 05:39 PM
I didn't think they needed to take one in the first round. It just made a little bit of sense. After Colston they've got somewhat unproven guys. Henderson's got all the potential in the world, but hes so inconsistent it hurts.

Believe me though, I agree with you. I wanted a linebacker or a corner in the first round, especially considering who was still on the board. If Meachem would've made the most sense then it wouldn't be that big a deal.

Shiver
09-14-2007, 08:30 PM
What adds insult to injury is they aren't even using Meachem or Young. Because of that the Saints haven't progressed, while Carolina has. Remember the Panthers actually did not finish that far behind the Saints last year and a few breaks here and there and they could easily surpass New Orleans.

etk
09-14-2007, 08:41 PM
It's perplexing to say the least. The Saints needed upgrades and help at all defensive positions except DE, but they go out and draft a WR in the 1st and then proceed to grab another 3 offensive players out of 4 picks. You have McAllister, Bush & Stecker, why draft another RB who contributes little to special teams? What's even more pathetic is how they spent 2 mid-round picks on the offensive line despite having an improving core of young lineman in place already. Their defensive signings were also poor, as Simmons couldn't beat out Simoneau and Kaesviharn is a liability on coverage. Their best signing was...Eric Johnson, a TE. Sean Payton is a great playcaller and coach but he has to be careful not to neglect the defense and concentrate solely on his side of the ball, because Jon Gruden made similar moves and it cost him. All Payton needed to do was add a couple of contributing pieces to help bolster the defense, but instead he just chose to add a project at CB and nothing else. That is not defendable by any fan.

zCaddyz
09-14-2007, 09:39 PM
Get rdy aints fans for the whoopin yall bout to get this sunday, where gonna shut down ur so called high power o, gaines gonna wreck havok on brees and brooks, ruud, cato gonna shut down bush and future bust colston WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE

SchizophrenicBatman
09-14-2007, 10:04 PM
You guys do know that now that you've realized that the Saints were overhyped and the Panthers were not a team on the decline that Carolina is going to promptly get their asses kicked by Houston, yes? That's how they work.

...though actually Bill Simmons picked Houston to cover this weekend which means we'll probably win by 20. That guy basically controls the Carolina karma...I don't think he's picked a Panther game correctly since 2004.

Caddy
09-14-2007, 11:18 PM
Get rdy aints fans for the whoopin yall bout to get this sunday, where gonna shut down ur so called high power o, gaines gonna wreck havok on brees and brooks, ruud, cato gonna shut down bush and future bust colston WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE

The grammar police are not pleased.

Auron
09-15-2007, 12:45 AM
It's perplexing to say the least. The Saints needed upgrades and help at all defensive positions except DE, but they go out and draft a WR in the 1st and then proceed to grab another 3 offensive players out of 4 picks. You have McAllister, Bush & Stecker, why draft another RB who contributes little to special teams? What's even more pathetic is how they spent 2 mid-round picks on the offensive line despite having an improving core of young lineman in place already. Their defensive signings were also poor, as Simmons couldn't beat out Simoneau and Kaesviharn is a liability on coverage. Their best signing was...Eric Johnson, a TE. Sean Payton is a great playcaller and coach but he has to be careful not to neglect the defense and concentrate solely on his side of the ball, because Jon Gruden made similar moves and it cost him. All Payton needed to do was add a couple of contributing pieces to help bolster the defense, but instead he just chose to add a project at CB and nothing else. That is not defendable by any fan.
The worst part about it is.. that our first second day pick, who was another RB isn't even on the team anymore. Was beat out by an UDFA and then cut. I’m not ready to write off Meachem yet you can't really judge WRs their first season, but it is becoming more clear that he and our other rookies probably won’t contribute very much this season.

And with that said as a team we don't have the kind of luxury to be able to take that Draft approach yet.

Geo
09-15-2007, 12:00 PM
Seems like the Saints are getting a lot of grief for the Meachem pick.

The team needs a long-term answer opposite Marques Colston. Devery Henderson and Terrance Cooper are reaching free agency, and both are short-term solutions at best. Plus I'm not entirely confident in Colston as a legit #1 in this league, truth be told, and his lack of pure speed is rearing his head. Enter Meachem.

Meachem isn't contributing much as a rookie: I'm sorry, that's just asinine. Wide receivers at least need a year to develop, if not two years. Putting up numbers like Colston did as a rookie is absolutely the exception to the rule, and anyone who would debate otherwise can check the league history stats for themselves. The Saints took Meachem now to prepare themselves for when Henderson and Copper are gone, I thought that was fairly obvious but apparently not.

I wouldn't have faulted the Saints for drafting Chris Houston, a talented cornerback prospect although a bit of a boom or bust pick. Scouting comes into play, and Houston didn't just fall coincidentally past 31 teams (as much as Mayock blew his lid about it). As for a linebacker? Eh, I'm not a really big fan of spending a 1st round pick on a linebacker - that's a position where there's a good chance the talent level doesn't drop off as much afterwards, or at least each draft class has great talent.

Shiver
09-15-2007, 09:46 PM
Maybe Usama Young and Robert Meachem contribute down the road, but the NFC is to be had right now and the Saints did nothing to step up and take it.

Geo
09-15-2007, 11:14 PM
And what would Chris Houston have done, other than be the eventual replacement to Mike McKenzie (which the team does need)? The Saints already have a pretty good nickel corner in Jason Craft, Houston isn't better than him at that role.

P-L
09-15-2007, 11:19 PM
What about Paul Posluszny? While he doesn't have the ceiling that Meachem and Houston have, he was NFL ready coming out of the draft and certainly would've upgraded Mark Simoneau.

Flyboy
09-15-2007, 11:31 PM
Seems like the Saints are getting a lot of grief for the Meachem pick.

The team needs a long-term answer opposite Marques Colston. Devery Henderson and Terrance Cooper are reaching free agency, and both are short-term solutions at best. Plus I'm not entirely confident in Colston as a legit #1 in this league, truth be told, and his lack of pure speed is rearing his head. Enter Meachem.

Meachem isn't contributing much as a rookie: I'm sorry, that's just asinine. Wide receivers at least need a year to develop, if not two years. Putting up numbers like Colston did as a rookie is absolutely the exception to the rule, and anyone who would debate otherwise can check the league history stats for themselves. The Saints took Meachem now to prepare themselves for when Henderson and Copper are gone, I thought that was fairly obvious but apparently not.

I wouldn't have faulted the Saints for drafting Chris Houston, a talented cornerback prospect although a bit of a boom or bust pick. Scouting comes into play, and Houston didn't just fall coincidentally past 31 teams (as much as Mayock blew his lid about it). As for a linebacker? Eh, I'm not a really big fan of spending a 1st round pick on a linebacker - that's a position where there's a good chance the talent level doesn't drop off as much afterwards, or at least each draft class has great talent.

I didn't think it was too hard to grasp the concept either. The Saints are an offensive team -- in order to remain good at being an offensive team, you have to have weapons. Next year, there is a chance that our starting WRs could be Marques Colston and Lance Moore if we hadn't picked Meachem considering that Henderson, Patten, Copper all might be gone. I understood the logic behind selecting Meachem and even Pittman to some degree (no one knew Thomas would beat him out and I think he was selected to be groomed for McAllister's replacement). The only defensive player that I would have been delighted to have at 27 would have been Poz. Eh, I'm tired of debating the issue. It was a pick for the future. *shrugs*

Geo
09-16-2007, 12:20 AM
Barring a strange draft class, it's usually the case that you can find a very good/great MLB prospect from Round 2 on.

I suppose we should bring up Alan Branch? I really liked him as a prospect and was surprised he fell (wonder what the scouting obviously discovered), and would have personally taken him with the Colts' pick as I think he could have been the best Tampa 2 NT the league has yet seen. That's me, I'm not in the war room with the benefit of their information and knowledge at hand. I could understand why the team opted to take another prospect (Anthony Gonzalez) and then draft Quinn Pitcock in the 3rd round. Could Branch have helped the Saints? Probably, if he stayed healthy. Again, who knows how the Saints graded him (obviously worse than Meachem?).

Meachem, I thought, was in discussion for best player available (the way to go imo). Talk about him and Greg Olsen at the Packers' pick, 16th overall I believe it was, was overrating the two imo, but both ended up in good spots to good teams. I recall some bringing up Chad Jackson, a fellow SEC junior WR who entered the Draft a year before, but I definitely liked Meachem more. And if the Saints had taken Branch, they still would have the aforementioned long-term concerns at WR and the matter of time to develop a player there.

On the matter of drafting DTs, I do think that it's not a surprise that teams with shaky scouting/decision-making have drafted disappointments at DT in the 1st round in the last 5 years or so: only draft them when you are sure and confident in your scouting imo, that you are in fact drafting a stud to complement a solid rotation of mid-round picks (Tommie Harris) or hopefully another great player (Jacksonville with Stroud & Henderson, Tampa before with Sapp & McFarland). Tomorrow, there's a good chance the Colts will see the best Albert Haynesworth they've yet seen, thanks to Haynesworth being in a contract year and that's the reason he'll finally live up to his potential as the 15th overall pick in the 2002 Draft - I wouldn't hold my breath to see it continue once he signs a lucrative FA contract.

Flyboy
09-16-2007, 12:44 AM
Here's what I posted at another Saints' forum about how our draft went down (at least the first round):

And, this is what I don't get about this logic... who was on the board that was worth taking over Meachem that we WOULD have taken?

DT - Only DT that would have been "worth" the selection in the first round was Alan Branch [EDIT: considering we were picking 27 and Harrell was off the board]. However, many reports had him having a very lackluster work ethic and some attitude problems. Whether or not he turns out successful isn't the point, but by that speculation alone he wasn't a Payton-type player and was not going to our pick.

CB - Chris Houston. Probably my favorite draft prospect after Johnson, Russell & Lynch, however, we signed Jason David prior to the draft which allowed us to not draft a CB in the first round simply based on need. Not to mention that Usama Young was our very next selection after Meachem whom has a lot of the pros that Houston is listed for except that he's a known tackler.

LB - This is the only position that you could maybe make a point for. With Poz & David Harris being on the board, but those would probably be picks for the future as well. Fujita & Shanle have their positions on lock and we signed Brian Simmons in the FA before the draft so Poz/Harris would have had to beat out Simoneau & Simmons to start for us.

Teams should stick to what works for them. Take the Colts for instance. They are obviously an offensive team. They have been for awhile now and it's what works for them. They lost many pieces to their defense before the draft and that was the biggest concern for them last season before the playoffs and for them going into this season. You don't think the Colts couldn't have used a LB or DT either? But who did they select? Anthony Gonzales. You take the player who you think is BPA, period.

etk
09-16-2007, 09:58 AM
The worst part about it is.. that our first second day pick, who was another RB isn't even on the team anymore. Was beat out by an UDFA and then cut. Iím not ready to write off Meachem yet you can't really judge WRs their first season, but it is becoming more clear that he and our other rookies probably wonít contribute very much this season.

And with that said as a team we don't have the kind of luxury to be able to take that Draft approach yet.

I know he was cut, as I fully expected him to be. The Saints had plenty of talent at RB and Pittman doesn't bring much value to ST either. It's one of those "What were they thinking?" deals.

thefalconer
09-16-2007, 01:00 PM
how about them bucs?!

zCaddyz
09-16-2007, 01:09 PM
i knew i should of started there d today..........but i got joey g ands hes ballin

Tampa 2 4 life
09-16-2007, 01:34 PM
Jason David is gonna single handedly lose every game for the saints.

zCaddyz
09-16-2007, 02:02 PM
i told yall the bucs where gonna whoop on them aints

Beans
09-16-2007, 03:06 PM
yay and such

Shiver
09-16-2007, 08:57 PM
Sean Payton is a moron:

Deuce McAllister - 10 carries, 49 yards
Reggie Bush - 10 carries, 27 yards

Why is Bush getting as many carries as McAllister? He even was in the game on the goal-line and was stuffed. Bush has done nothing to warrant being used more than McAllister. He is only a few years removed from a 2,000 total yard season. Maybe I'm jaded because I am a McAllister fantasy owner, but it defies all common sense.

Geo
09-16-2007, 09:03 PM
Why is Payton running a toss to Duece on a 3rd and 2 against the Tampa Bay defense? Someone please explain that to me, I still haven't understood that.

Shiver
09-16-2007, 09:32 PM
I think Sean Payton's genius tag needs to be rescinded. He was demoted twice from being the play-caller and I can see why.

Geo
09-16-2007, 09:36 PM
He made Cato June look competent, that's unforgivable.

Auron
09-16-2007, 10:16 PM
Sean Payton is a moron:

Deuce McAllister - 10 carries, 49 yards
Reggie Bush - 10 carries, 27 yards

Why is Bush getting as many carries as McAllister? He even was in the game on the goal-line and was stuffed. Bush has done nothing to warrant being used more than McAllister. He is only a few years removed from a 2,000 total yard season. Maybe I'm jaded because I am a McAllister fantasy owner, but it defies all common sense.

Not defending him or anything, but the reason Deuce wasn't in the game very much was because he was poked in the eye pretty viciously, and it swelled up so bad he could barely see out if it clearly for a period of time. He also lost a fumble, and had a near fumble on another play.

The big picture is no one on this team is making things happen, and it goes way beyond one particular aspect. It's hard to single out just one thing when there's so many problems It's the play calling, the 3rd down execution, the poor QB decision making, the inability to hold blocks, poor ball security, the wide receivers can't hold onto the few passes that do hit them in the hands, teams are just going to Double Colston all game and force someone else to step up, and nobody is doing that.

Just so many problems on this team right now and that just covers the Offensive side of the ball..

Geo
09-16-2007, 10:25 PM
And can we please put the kobosh on putting Reggie Bush under the blame microscope? He's playing hard, it's not his fault the playcalling and execution (particularly up front) is severely lacking. For all the grief he gets about not being an interior runner, he takes his shots from defenders and isn't, you know, shying away from contact or coughing up the ball and so on.

Edit: I just noticed Bush fumbled twice today, lost one and recovered the other. Hmm, what's the story on this?

I was watching the Colts/Titans first and foremost, but I turned in to the game (and other games, hooray Sunday Ticket) during commercials. In the fourth quarter, I saw Brees not only completely not see an open receiver but throw the ball further downfield and miss Lance Moore. I don't know what's going on, but the Saints need to get home and regroup.

The Titans aren't push-overs, but playing at home for MNF may be just what the Saints need right now.

Shiver
09-16-2007, 10:30 PM
Not defending him or anything, but the reason Deuce wasn't in the game very much was because he was poked in the eye pretty viciously, and it swelled up so bad he could barely see out if it clearly for a period of time. He also lost a fumble, and had a near fumble on another play.

I didn't know that.

Auron
09-16-2007, 10:38 PM
And can we please put the kobosh on putting Reggie Bush under the blame microscope? He's playing hard, it's not his fault the playcalling and execution (particularly up front) is severely lacking. For all the grief he gets about not being an interior runner, he takes his shots from defenders and isn't, you know, shying away from contact or coughing up the ball and so on.

I was watching the Colts/Titans first and foremost, but I turned in to the game (and other games, hooray Sunday Ticket) during commercials. In the fourth quarter, I saw Brees not only completely not see an open receiver but throw the ball further downfield and miss Lance Moore. I don't know what's going on, but the Saints need to get home and regroup.

The Titans aren't push-overs, but playing at home for MNF may be just what the Saints need right now.
This next stretch of games is going to be one of the biggest milestone tests for Sean Payton. It's really a gut check time right now which will push a Coach's ability. This is the biggest adversity we've ever faced as a team, we had rough stretches last season but nothing this bad.

As of today there are only 4 teams in the NFC that are 2-0. (Cowboys, Packers, Lions, and 49ers) So it's not impossible to bounce back from this horrendous start, but Payton and this coaching staff have to do something to re-instill some confidence and get the players to play with some emotion. Payton's coaching ability has been called into question, and now it's time to see how he responds.

Caddy
09-16-2007, 11:57 PM
He made Cato June look competent, that's unforgivable.

Boo, Cato June rules. :D

Shiver
09-17-2007, 01:13 AM
And can we please put the kobosh on putting Reggie Bush under the blame microscope? He's playing hard, it's not his fault the playcalling and execution (particularly up front) is severely lacking. For all the grief he gets about not being an interior runner, he takes his shots from defenders and isn't, you know, shying away from contact or coughing up the ball and so on.

Edit: I just noticed Bush fumbled twice today, lost one and recovered the other. Hmm, what's the story on this?


I like what Deion Sanders and Tom Jackson said, I will paraphrase both:

Deion Sanders said: 'It's like serving the desert before the entree. That's what Payton is doing by using Bush before McAllister. Reggie is a role player.'

Jackson said: 'You cannot dance in this league, (referring to Bush) period. The Saints go as McAllister goes and they need to give him twenty, twenty five carries.'

The Saints are 0-4 when McAllister gets this few of carries. Like I said last year, McAllister is the main cog in that offensive machine and they haven't gotten him on track.

d34ng3l021
09-20-2007, 05:06 PM
Man we gonna smack dem panties upside down.

Geo
09-20-2007, 06:53 PM
I like what Deion Sanders and Tom Jackson said, I will paraphrase both:

Deion Sanders said: 'It's like serving the desert before the entree. That's what Payton is doing by using Bush before McAllister. Reggie is a role player.'

Jackson said: 'You cannot dance in this league, (referring to Bush) period. The Saints go as McAllister goes and they need to give him twenty, twenty five carries.'
With Devery Henderson not living up to being a short-term WR2 at the moment, and Marques Colston and Eric Johnson not exactly burners, I'm surprised the Saints don't pass the ball to Bush more than they are instead of giving him 10 carries or so. Especially against a Tampa 2 defense, which is specifically (and successfully thus far) trying to take away the plays of 20-plus yards, go to checkdowns to methodically move the ball down the field.

Granted, there was the matter of Duece getting seriously poked in the eye and needing to get off the field this past Sunday. McAllister will actually wear a visor this Monday, I read, and didn't seem enthused about it.

The Saints are 0-4 when McAllister gets this few of carries. Like I said last year, McAllister is the main cog in that offensive machine and they haven't gotten him on track.
Problem is, I don't know if McAllister can get back on track against a Titans' defensive line that is playing very well against the run right now, with a Saints' offensive line that isn't playing as well.

The playcalling/gameplan for the Saints hasn't been up to par, but the offensive line play needs to improve too.

etk
09-20-2007, 08:12 PM
He made Cato June look competent, that's unforgivable.

Cato June is more than competent in our defense. He's still not very physical but
we put him in position to make plays. He has a lot of responsibility in zone coverage and secondary fill on run support. That means he will be the beneficiary of offensive mistakes more often that not. He has the speed to take advantage when that does occur.

Caddy
09-21-2007, 02:34 AM
Cato June is more than competent in our defense. He's still not very physical but
we put him in position to make plays. He has a lot of responsibility in zone coverage and secondary fill on run support. That means he will be the beneficiary of offensive mistakes more often that not. He has the speed to take advantage when that does occur.

And he has actually looked quite effective in making tackles which has been deemed as one of his primary if not the primary weakness.

etk
09-21-2007, 08:03 AM
And he has actually looked quite effective in making tackles which has been deemed as one of his primary if not the primary weakness.

He's always been a tackling machine it's just people question the quality of his tackles as he doesn't drive guys backward very often.

Caddy
09-21-2007, 09:17 AM
He's always been a tackling machine it's just people question the quality of his tackles as he doesn't drive guys backward very often.

Very true. A change of scenery has worked quite well for Cato. He brings an intensity to the defense which a guy like Ryan Nece was lacking.

etk
09-21-2007, 07:13 PM
Very true. A change of scenery has worked quite well for Cato. He brings an intensity to the defense which a guy like Ryan Nece was lacking.

Nece just didn't make plays, plain and simple. He wasn't bad, but the Tampa Bay Buccaneers look for more than mediocrity from their defense. Too bad Sabby Piscitelli is still on the roster...

iloxygenil
09-21-2007, 07:46 PM
That sounds awful...you guys are Sabby fans? I really thought he could be a good big hittin type safety...is he not playing up to his sick athletic numbers? Also I understand Safety is a pretty rough spot for a rookie to come in and make the switch on anyway.

As far as this Falcons defense...it's special. We haven't been aggressive because we haven't been in position to gamble and force mistakes, we have to just take them as they come to us, which isn't going to happen too often against teams like Minnesota when all they were going to do was hand off, and Jax who was going to do the same thing. We know that Carolina CAN run, but I think they're going to try to keep putting it up in the air with **** while he's hot, and I think against this secondary it could get him in some DEEP stuff...Hall MAY be overhyped because he was so young when he got the hype and he's still what 21? 22? I mean that's just sick...he's still a top 5 corner, and Chris Houston's press coverage is just spectacular...so stacking him against the 2nd receiver could cause problems in timing...then again Delhomme is a vet and can make a rookie look silly if he gets his eyes in the backfield. But if this defense gets a spot to be aggressive and we can bring the blitz with Boley / Williams...that's a scary amount of speed coming after QBs and could cause some chuck and duck if we could get enough penetration from our front 4.

Caddy
09-21-2007, 08:58 PM
That sounds awful...you guys are Sabby fans? I really thought he could be a good big hittin type safety...is he not playing up to his sick athletic numbers? Also I understand Safety is a pretty rough spot for a rookie to come in and make the switch on anyway.


I am definitely a Sabby fan but at this moment in time he has done nothing to show me that he is the future of this organisation at SS. Jermaine Phillips seems reinvigorated this season and is playing much better than he has in recent seasons. Whether he can continue this is another matter.

I still think Sabby has the potential to be a starter for the Buc's but we may not find out what we have until well into the season or next season. Until then, the verdict on him is out.

Geo
09-21-2007, 09:23 PM
The Bucs certainly helped themselves drafting Tanard Jackson, in any csae.

etk
09-21-2007, 09:32 PM
The Bucs certainly helped themselves drafting Tanard Jackson, in any csae.

As I knew they would. I wasn't sure if Tanard was good enough in run support to play safety, but I always knew he had a knack for zone coverage, great instincts, and great closing burst when the ball's in front of him.

Sabby, on the other hand, lacks the talent. He's above-average in most aspects
of the safety position, but he doesn't stand out at anything nor does he play consistently. He just seems lost on the field at times, and I never thought we needed to draft a SS anyway. Phillips is a good tackler and hitter. His only weakness is coverage (to a small extent), but he doesn't have enough coverage responsibility to make that a serious factor.

Beans
09-22-2007, 07:11 AM
What I don't get is, why did we draft Jackson to play safety? We have more issues at corner, IMO, and that was his college position.

etk
09-22-2007, 08:53 AM
What I don't get is, why did we draft Jackson to play safety? We have more issues at corner, IMO, and that was his college position.

Trust me, Will Allen is a bigger issue than CB. We made the right decision. Sabby was a complete waste of a pick, though. Even if he is a capable safety he won't see the field until Phillips retires.

Caddy
09-22-2007, 09:34 AM
Trust me, Will Allen is a bigger issue than CB. We made the right decision. Sabby was a complete waste of a pick, though. Even if he is a capable safety he won't see the field until Phillips retires.

I guess the Buccaneers drafted him because they thought Jermaine would continue with his erratic, and often poor, play. Props to Jermaine for showing up this year.

etk
09-22-2007, 10:24 AM
I guess the Buccaneers drafted him because they thought Jermaine would continue with his erratic, and often poor, play. Props to Jermaine for showing up this year.

I never thought he was that bad. I don't think anyone really thought he needed to be upgraded.

zCaddyz
09-22-2007, 12:12 PM
jermaine was never a bad player it was just last year we had no one who can get after the qb so they had all day to throw

etk
09-22-2007, 03:05 PM
jermaine was never a bad player it was just last year we had no one who can get after the qb so they had all day to throw

Not only that, he was forced to come up and make a lot of tackles as the last line of defense. Obviously he won't make every single open field tackle to bail out his teammates so it's unfair to use him as a scapegoat for the past. It's no coincidence that when our defense improves Jermaine looks like a stud.

Caddy
09-22-2007, 06:50 PM
I never thought he was that bad. I don't think anyone really thought he needed to be upgraded.

Jermaine was taking a lot of flak from everyone last year. I've always liked him but that was not always the general consensus. Even the coaching staff must have doubted his ability otherwise one Sabbatino Piscitelli would not be wearing a Buc's uniform.

etk
09-22-2007, 09:04 PM
Jermaine was taking a lot of flak from everyone last year. I've always liked him but that was not always the general consensus. Even the coaching staff must have doubted his ability otherwise one Sabbatino Piscitelli would not be wearing a Buc's uniform.

That's not the most effective argument considering Gruden's draft record...

Caddy
09-23-2007, 12:14 AM
That's not the most effective argument considering Gruden's draft record...

His draft record is on the improve though. Provided guys like Caddy, Alex Smith, Barrett Ruud, Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood and Tanard Jackson continue to develop.

etk
09-23-2007, 09:06 AM
His draft record is on the improve though. Provided guys like Caddy, Alex Smith, Barrett Ruud, Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood and Tanard Jackson continue to develop.

Wow...Gruden gets decent play from 1st and 2nd rounders. Somebody get the man a cookie.

D-Rod
09-23-2007, 09:33 AM
I find it amusing that this has turned into a Bucs self-harm thread...

Incidentally, I agree: Gruden stinks, and Payton's success last year resulted, as usually happens, in his head getting stuck in a murky orifice.

zCaddyz
09-23-2007, 01:54 PM
looks like the bucs got our d back

etk
09-23-2007, 03:42 PM
I find it amusing that this has turned into a Bucs self-harm thread...

Incidentally, I agree: Gruden stinks, and Payton's success last year resulted, as usually happens, in his head getting stuck in a murky orifice.

Kinda off topic but I really like your sig.

Shiver
09-24-2007, 01:23 AM
Random rants...

Keith Brooking hasn't played at a pro-bowl level since '04. Michael Boley is better than he is, at every facet of the game.

Roddy White punked Ken Lucas, badly. Roddy White is finally playing like the player I thought he would be. He has a freakish combination of size and speed. He hasn't dropped passes either.

Deion Sanders thought the calls on DeAngelo Hall were poor and I agree. The second one, in particular, was terrible. How can you penalize one guy for verbal misconduct and not both? Both Hall and Smith were mouthing off. DeAngelo Hall played the best football of his career. Even if the refs screwed him, it's a shame that happened to overshadow the job he did on Steve Smith.

Joey Harrington showed signs of life. Now I am totally confused. I know Jacksonville and Minnesota have legitimate defenses. How much of it was those two teams just dominating? I am looking for consistency from Harrington. He doesn't have to light up the Texans, who might be without their two starting receivers, but I hope he continues his good play.

Why is Norwood not getting more work? This is driving me insane.

DeShaun Foster wishes he was playing Atlanta every week. I don't know how to explain it, but he just kills the Falcons.

iloxygenil
09-24-2007, 01:58 AM
Deangelo Hall is just pure SICK nasty. He's top 3 corner in the NFL.

Roddy White...WTF? Who is this guy? I thought this is what we would see all along...I'm SO happy to see it actually happen in a game.

Overlooked: Michael Jenkins...WOW...guy went up STRONG, extended, snatched the ball, didn't wait for it to get into his body. Made the tough catches and very VERY clutch first downs.

I agree with you Shiv...Norwood is incredible...

Where is Anderson? The kid has skill...I want to see it manifest itself like it did in the one preseason game against a very good offensive line. I want to see the pressure come from his side.

John Abraham...nuts...physical freak...PLEASE stay healthy.

The Falcons: Not out of it yet...even at 0-3 this team showed today that they are getting better every week and have a TON of heart to play with. I kinda hope we just keep games close and don't end up winning a bunch that is going to cost us in the draft. But I want them to know it helps them to fight, just like they've been doing keeping themselves in games. This is how you build a successful foundation. Couple bogus flags and non flags hurt us...badly.

Shiver
09-24-2007, 02:15 AM
I think that Atlanta will beat an Andre Johnson/Jacoby Jones/Ahman Green-less Texans team at home.


Oh I am glad you mentioned John Abraham, I forgot about him in my thing. He is a beast when healthy. He has consistently worked Travelle Wharton.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 02:34 AM
Damn, I didn't know the Texans were so banged up.

Geo
09-24-2007, 02:47 AM
Green hurt his knee in the first quarter, though we don't know how serious it is yet. Hunter the Punter took Jones out because he would have kept killing the Colts' miserable special teams, kidding aside Jones separated his left shoulder on the takedown by Smith. A few other Texans players got dinged up, if I recall.

Thankfully the Colts to my knowledge came out with no big injuries. Maybe Roy Hall might have hurt his shoulder on that special teams collision that sent the tackle Killings to the hospital for observation.

Caddy
09-24-2007, 04:55 AM
Random rants...

Keith Brooking hasn't played at a pro-bowl level since '04. Michael Boley is better than he is, at every facet of the game.

Roddy White punked Ken Lucas, badly. Roddy White is finally playing like the player I thought he would be. He has a freakish combination of size and speed. He hasn't dropped passes either.

Deion Sanders thought the calls on DeAngelo Hall were poor and I agree. The second one, in particular, was terrible. How can you penalize one guy for verbal misconduct and not both? Both Hall and Smith were mouthing off. DeAngelo Hall played the best football of his career. Even if the refs screwed him, it's a shame that happened to overshadow the job he did on Steve Smith.

Joey Harrington showed signs of life. Now I am totally confused. I know Jacksonville and Minnesota have legitimate defenses. How much of it was those two teams just dominating? I am looking for consistency from Harrington. He doesn't have to light up the Texans, who might be without their two starting receivers, but I hope he continues his good play.

Why is Norwood not getting more work? This is driving me insane.

DeShaun Foster wishes he was playing Atlanta every week. I don't know how to explain it, but he just kills the Falcons.

I'm glad Roddy White has started showing signs of development. I've always been a fan of his.

Shiver
09-24-2007, 01:17 PM
There was tremendous irony that I found interesting: the team added Joe Horn because he was "sure handed" only to watch him drop a pass in the end-zone in a game where Michael Jenkins and Roddy White looked great.

Geo
09-24-2007, 01:56 PM
Hah, that's good.

Although I have no evidence to prove it, I'm sure the veteran Horn is having a very positive effect on the young receivers on this team, the benefits of which we're starting to see.

thefalconer
09-24-2007, 01:57 PM
i'm kinda worried that when leftwich gets his chance at qb, white is gonna go back to his old ways. our team has too many inconsistencies. leftwich's balls are gonna have differences from harrington's passes and right now white's gotta be feeling he's the go to guy but if leftwich finds his favorite receiver to be jenkins or horn, there goes his confidence again. i have to admit i'm being pessimistic so that if this does happen, i won't be completely surprised.

i really think if the whole vick crap didnt happen, our offense would be very very exciting.

i'm also getting skeptical with petrino's coaching. why did we ditch the spread formation in the 3rd quarter? just running 4,5 wide completely left the middle open for any crossing routes. sigh.. i really agree after that 'high' performance, harrington is gonna stumble again. he just cant be consistent. woodson for the falcons!

etk
09-24-2007, 02:30 PM
i'm kinda worried that when leftwich gets his chance at qb, white is gonna go back to his old ways. our team has too many inconsistencies. leftwich's balls are gonna have differences from harrington's passes and right now white's gotta be feeling he's the go to guy but if leftwich finds his favorite receiver to be jenkins or horn, there goes his confidence again. i have to admit i'm being pessimistic so that if this does happen, i won't be completely surprised.

i really think if the whole vick crap didnt happen, our offense would be very very exciting.

i'm also getting skeptical with petrino's coaching. why did we ditch the spread formation in the 3rd quarter? just running 4,5 wide completely left the middle open for any crossing routes. sigh.. i really agree after that 'high' performance, harrington is gonna stumble again. he just cant be consistent. woodson for the falcons!

I'd worry more about his hands and less about his confidence. Michael Vick & Byron Leftwich have powerful arms and White struggled with Vick's cannon in the past.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-24-2007, 02:30 PM
Random rants...

Keith Brooking hasn't played at a pro-bowl level since '04. Michael Boley is better than he is, at every facet of the game.

Roddy White punked Ken Lucas, badly. Roddy White is finally playing like the player I thought he would be. He has a freakish combination of size and speed. He hasn't dropped passes either.

Deion Sanders thought the calls on DeAngelo Hall were poor and I agree. The second one, in particular, was terrible. How can you penalize one guy for verbal misconduct and not both? Both Hall and Smith were mouthing off. DeAngelo Hall played the best football of his career. Even if the refs screwed him, it's a shame that happened to overshadow the job he did on Steve Smith.

Joey Harrington showed signs of life. Now I am totally confused. I know Jacksonville and Minnesota have legitimate defenses. How much of it was those two teams just dominating? I am looking for consistency from Harrington. He doesn't have to light up the Texans, who might be without their two starting receivers, but I hope he continues his good play.

Why is Norwood not getting more work? This is driving me insane.

DeShaun Foster wishes he was playing Atlanta every week. I don't know how to explain it, but he just kills the Falcons.

Your Keith Brooking statement can go for Dan Morgan and Kris Jenkins too. Lucas has been a disappointment since 2005, as well. The Panthers defense is a complete embarrassment right now and I'm trying to figure out how much of it is underachievement/poor player utilization and how much of it is just the players not being that good.

We're already on the D-Hall argument in the NFL forum, but again, do you not remember when he shoved Smith way after a play was over in the first quarter? He earned at least one of the two personal fouls and the other can be karma for the refs missing that one earlier in the game. It turned out unfortunate for Atlanta that they all came on the same drive as the PI, because I really thought the Panthers had no chance of winning until that turned things around

Don't get too excited about Harrington. Our defense blows and has a knack for making poor quarterbacks look better than they are. I think Leftwich, even if he's as flat footed as David Carr, can win you guys some games when he's ready.

On Norwood, it really makes no sense to me. He gashed us last year too. I figured he wasn't going to be featured as much in the run game with Petrino ditching the ZBS, but at least get him a few more screens or passes in the flat. And he's really no worse an option than Dunn in the new offense, either

Shiver
09-24-2007, 03:53 PM
I posted that before we got into our argument and before I heard he was "abusive" to an official, not Smith. I still think that personal foul was BS, though.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 03:54 PM
There was tremendous irony that I found interesting: the team added Joe Horn because he was "sure handed" only to watch him drop a pass in the end-zone in a game where Michael Jenkins and Roddy White looked great.

He'll still get hurt by Week Five. :)

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 06:32 PM
Hey guys, bit of advice, get either Jeff Gacia or Joey Galloway on your team quick, cause they are playing the Panthers and Garcia is looking to go for 400+ yards.

zCaddyz
09-24-2007, 08:09 PM
got'em both

etk
09-24-2007, 08:13 PM
Hey guys, bit of advice, get either Jeff Gacia or Joey Galloway on your team quick, cause they are playing the Panthers and Garcia is looking to go for 400+ yards.

The great thing is we actually have an offensive line this year that can give us time in the pocket. That's what could make us dangerous against the Panthers. Michael Clayton just needs to hold on to the ball and we'll have plenty of weapons to pick from.

Caddy
09-25-2007, 12:24 AM
The great thing is we actually have an offensive line this year that can give us time in the pocket. That's what could make us dangerous against the Panthers. Michael Clayton just needs to hold on to the ball and we'll have plenty of weapons to pick from.

Still hating on Arron Sears etk? Or is your hatred now focused solely on Sabby?

etk
09-25-2007, 07:28 AM
Still hating on Arron Sears etk? Or is your hatred now focused solely on Sabby?

I'm neutral toward Arron Sears. Our running game has been decent and he's only looked pathetic a couple of times in pass protection. I can live with him as a starter but I'm still pissed that we drafted him so early. Even if we needed a G that badly we could've had Blalock, who's better at every aspect of the position.

I still hate Sabby, very much so. That fateful Saturday was one of the most depressing days in my life.

Caddy
09-25-2007, 06:42 PM
I'm neutral toward Arron Sears. Our running game has been decent and he's only looked pathetic a couple of times in pass protection. I can live with him as a starter but I'm still pissed that we drafted him so early. Even if we needed a G that badly we could've had Blalock, who's better at every aspect of the position.

I still hate Sabby, very much so. That fateful Saturday was one of the most depressing days in my life.

Haha good stuff. Well at least you won't have to look at him as much in the near future with the injury to his foot he suffered.

zCaddyz
09-26-2007, 04:15 PM
Ok ok gaines will get a sack this game cuz we all know carr likes to hang on the ball to long, last game i saw a big diff in gaines almost get two sacks and he used the hit stick on s.jackson

Shiver
09-27-2007, 02:25 PM
Ok ok gaines will get a sack this game cuz we all know carr likes to hang on the ball to long, last game i saw a big diff in gaines almost get two sacks and he used the hit stick on s.jackson


Are you serious? :rolleyes:

iloxygenil
09-27-2007, 02:28 PM
It's a race between him and Jamaal to see who is going to get there first!

Shiver
09-27-2007, 02:41 PM
That shouldn't even be a competition. The only thing Gaines Adams has over Jamaal Anderson is his pass rushing prowess, as everyone knows that Anderson is the much better run defender by default. Adams should sack Carr though, everyone else does.

Caddy
09-27-2007, 04:55 PM
Are you serious? :rolleyes:

I guess he was referring to when Adams broke into the backfield and took down Jackson for a loss.

zCaddyz
09-27-2007, 05:20 PM
anderson i dont really see him as a star a good player, run-stopper but not a star like "no gaines dont do it to them adams"

Caddy
09-28-2007, 02:10 AM
anderson i dont really see him as a star a good player, run-stopper but not a star like "no gaines dont do it to them adams"

Anderson is a good player and has plenty of potential. I really wouldn't be surprised to see him have a career better than Gaines Adams. Adams is the premier pass rusher of the two but Anderson is much more well rounded.

zCaddyz
09-28-2007, 04:21 PM
Only this time t-jax is gonna smash himhttp://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s243/zcaddyz/jackedup.gif

d34ng3l021
09-29-2007, 02:45 AM
Anderson is a good player and has plenty of potential. I really wouldn't be surprised to see him have a career better than Gaines Adams. Adams is the premier pass rusher of the two but Anderson is much more well rounded.

Very true. But theres almost like no way Gaines isnt going to be a star pass rusher. Anderson is still very raw, and wasnt consistently good in college for a long time. So who knows.

Caddy
09-29-2007, 09:01 AM
Very true. But theres almost like no way Gaines isnt going to be a star pass rusher. Anderson is still very raw, and wasnt consistently good in college for a long time. So who knows.

Both have their respective question marks. We will really be able to gauge there development when we get into the final rounds of the regular season.

diabsoule
09-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Tampa looks like their just going to walk all over Carolina. That would be the second NFC team that I know of that they just demolished. If they continue that then they will clearly own the division.

zCaddyz
09-30-2007, 05:28 PM
Fo sizzle go bucs

ShutDwn
09-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Tampa looks like their just going to walk all over Carolina. That would be the second NFC team that I know of that they just demolished. If they continue that then they will clearly own the division.

Panthers
Rams
Saints

All of those teams suck horribly. The Panthers more than any of them with David Carr at QB. With Carr the Panthers are the worst in the league, all defenses have to do is tripple Steve Smith and wait for Carr to throw a pick, get sacked or throw it away.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-30-2007, 06:56 PM
Tampa clearly owns the division, but that's because the division has 3 of the worst 10 teams in the NFL.

Caddy
09-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Tampa clearly owns the division, but that's because the division has 3 of the worst 10 teams in the NFL.

It kind of feels like a consolation prize at the moment, although the season is far from over. I would rather beat teams when they are playing their best football.

etk
10-01-2007, 08:44 PM
Very true. But theres almost like no way Gaines isnt going to be a star pass rusher. Anderson is still very raw, and wasnt consistently good in college for a long time. So who knows.

Gaines is already 24 years old. His current play does not indicate that he will even be close to that remarkable anytime soon. Pass rushing isn't everything for a DE either. I've seen Gaines get bullied and ragdolled on a few occasions when defending the run. He has a lot of work to do and a long road ahead of him if he wants to be an adequate replacement for Rice.

diabsoule
10-02-2007, 02:45 AM
Tampa clearly owns the division, but that's because the division has 3 of the worst 10 teams in the NFL.

Tampa has looked good in beaten those three teams though. It'd be a different story if they barely beat those teams but they have clearly just outplayed them. I don't think the Bucs will demolish a ton of teams but they will beat who they should and lose to who they should, which is a mark of a good and improving team.

etk
10-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Tampa has looked good in beaten those three teams though. It'd be a different story if they barely beat those teams but they have clearly just outplayed them. I don't think the Bucs will demolish a ton of teams but they will beat who they should and lose to who they should, which is a mark of a good and improving team.

i.e. this week against Peyton Manning and the Colts. Manning & Brady always seem to shred our Cover 2, as elite QBs should. The game will hinge on how well we can tighten the seams in our defense, and whether or not we can employ the "bend don't break" philosophy in creating some turnovers. I doubt we hold them below 30 points.

Caddy
10-03-2007, 02:21 AM
We should lose to the Colts, and barring something amazing by the defense we will. Although I expect Peyton Manning to pick apart our defense through various mismatches. Tanard Jackson should be extremely interesting to watch. If he can perform at a satisfactory level against Manning then we can really gauge his level of development after only 4 starts.

zCaddyz
10-03-2007, 11:43 AM
I want to get them back i want them to whoop us, then in the second half rip them apart it still hurts when i remember that monday night game

Caddy
10-03-2007, 05:40 PM
I want to get them back i want them to whoop us, then in the second half rip them apart it still hurts when i remember that monday night game

What, what, what!

zCaddyz
10-03-2007, 06:07 PM
yeah maybe a shutout would be better

diabsoule
10-07-2007, 06:00 PM
If the Saints wouldn't have played the Panthers today I think all the NFC South teams would have lost.

zCaddyz
10-08-2007, 10:15 AM
Check my sig him and gaines are the only ones that steped up sunday

d34ng3l021
11-11-2007, 08:39 PM
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5962/smithpx5.jpg

Its tough to play against a top5 corner Smith. Especially with Vinny as your QB. But no need to cry...

etk
11-11-2007, 08:45 PM
If the Saints wouldn't have played the Panthers today I think all the NFC South teams would have lost.

-remove Saints
-replace with Falcons

Auron
11-11-2007, 11:16 PM
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5962/smithpx5.jpg

Its tough to play against a top5 corner Smith. Especially with Vinny as your QB. But no need to cry...

Eh it's understandable, watching NFC South football this season has made me want to cry many a times...