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fenikz
09-10-2007, 02:58 AM
With his perfromance this week has Randy Moss proven that he is still a top 5 reciver in the league?

i'd say the general concensus is that

Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith
Chad Johnson
Torry Holt

are the top 4

Would you put Moss at 5?

D-Unit
09-10-2007, 03:03 AM
Terrell Owens deserves to be up there despite people not liking him.

fenikz
09-10-2007, 03:09 AM
would you put TO over Moss?

I know I wouldn't, he is definitly top 15 and probally top 10 but not top 5

ShutDwn
09-10-2007, 06:20 AM
Why would you put him back in the top five now? Did nobody look and see exactly how long Brady was able to stand in the pocket? It was ridiculous, Brady could just stand there. Randy Moss didn't have to catch a hard ball all day.

I mean Randy Moss is a great athlete, but just about any above average WR would be able to beat DBs if their QB is able to stand up without pressure like that.

Jay
09-10-2007, 06:50 AM
Why would you put him back in the top five now? Did nobody look and see exactly how long Brady was able to stand in the pocket? It was ridiculous, Brady could just stand there. Randy Moss didn't have to catch a hard ball all day.

Did you even watch the game? He beat not one, not two, but THREE defensive backs on that deep route. All three were within a step of him. Then how about that catch where he actually went up over the Jets defender and put the Pats at the goal line?

He is very clearly not 100%, and he still toyed with the Jets. He made them his *****. They didn't even come remotely close to being able to figure out a way to stop him. Now I realize the Jets aren't exactly a great team by any stretch, but they are decent, and it's still the NFL, so anything can happen any given Sunday (as they proved against us last year).

I won't lump him up there yet, because it was one game against average competition that I have a feeling a lot of good WR/QB tandems are going to put up really good numbers against, and quite frankly, I don't care. As long as the Pats get the W at the end of the day, I don't care about what the Randy Factor was...

bored of education
09-10-2007, 07:06 AM
Wow, it doesn't get gayer than NE Homers. Annointing Moss after one great game. Moss had as much to do with it as Heath Evans. The only reason why Moss and Brady's greatness exuded was the dominance the offensive line had on the Jets. I think Brady was having picnics in the pocket with Gisele Bunchen(sp.) and just throwing the ball up to the point Stanley Morgan had 12 grabs for 202 yards.

So if he repeates this perfomance 4 more times, then maybe.

Marvin, Holt, Wayne, Ocho Cinco, Smith

TO(yes TO), ANDRE JOHNSON, Javon Walker, Lavernious Coles, Moss all have a legit case for the 6 spot.

Jay
09-10-2007, 07:23 AM
Which Patriots fan in this thread said he was top 5 again. Your anti-Bostonism grows tiresome. Get over it.

bored of education
09-10-2007, 07:32 AM
Not in the thread but from what I heard in the last 24 hours.

Jay
09-10-2007, 07:42 AM
Well that probably has something to do with the fact that Randy is one of the greatest WR's ever to play the game, has the second best TD to game played ratio in NFL history and put up the single best receiving performance of Tom Brady's career. I don't blame people. It's not like they are annointing Dante Stallworth. This is a guy with a history that until he went to Oakland, you wouldn't even hesitate to call the best WR in the game, let alone top 5.

That said, it was one game against a bad team. The real test starts next week. It was nice of the NFL to give us a fifth preseason game, though...

bored of education
09-10-2007, 07:54 AM
I'll annoint the O-Line.

JK17
09-10-2007, 08:34 AM
It was scary to see Moss play so well. Granted the Jets weren't the best test to guage where he is truly at. I'm not going to say he's already back to his old form, but what else could he have done to convince people of that? He sure looked good no matter who he was playing. I still wouldn't give him top 5, I take Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, and Larry Fitzgerald, mainly becuase I love Fitzgerald...

But if Moss repeats that perfomance against my Chargers...he's certianly making his case for being back where he was.

princefielder28
09-10-2007, 09:12 AM
I would T.O. before Moss and possibly Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne

fenikz
09-10-2007, 09:36 AM
ya i'm actually starting to hate watching SportsCenter / ESPN, honestly if they gave any love to a west coast time I will be shocked

but back to the point, this is how i would rate the top 15 WR's

1. Marvin Harrison
2. Steve Smith
3. Chad Johnson
4. Torry Holt
5. Randy Moss
6. Andre Johnson
7. Reggie Wayne
8a. Anquan Boldin
8b. Larry Fitzgerald(you can't make me decide between the 2)
10. TO
11. Lee Evans
12. Javon Walker
13. Roy Williams
14. Hines Ward
15. Donald Driver

bsaza2358
09-10-2007, 09:37 AM
I think Moss is a top-10 option, but not top-5. He never really left in terms of talent and ability. He was dinged and has attitude issues. I think he will remain a top-10 option if he stays healthy in New England.

Freddy G
09-10-2007, 09:53 AM
I would take Moss over TO, but neither are top 5 at this point. If Moss regains minnisota form, then yes, easily top 5. However, you can't judge that after one game.

LonghornsLegend
09-10-2007, 10:13 AM
reggie wayne anyone? he's so underrated its crazy, he's probably just as talented as chad johnson is...and id put him higher then fitzgerald and andre johnson

keylime_5
09-10-2007, 10:21 AM
I always thought that people who said Moss was washed up were crazy. He was in Oakland with no QB and a really bad offensive scheme, and he was hurt the past 2 years. It's no coincidence that he was great in Minnesota with Culpepper and Linehan's great scheme, and then wasn't so hot in Oakland with Walter and Brooks and Art Shell, and now looks good again in New England with Brady and Bellichek. And to the fantasy "gurus" who said don't draft Moss b/c NE spreads the ball around too much....HELLO, they spread the ball around b/c their WRs weren't that great, Reche Caldwell and Troy Brown were the best they had.


My top 6 are Holt, Johnson, Smith, Moss, Owens and Harrison in no particular order. That is the top tier of WR talent in the league.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
09-10-2007, 10:24 AM
the season has officially begun because people see one good game and jump on the trains. Curry was top 10 today. Burress also. Romo > Manning.

but seriously i see where ur coming from, but u have to wait at least a couple of games. Moss looked really good today, no quesiton, he has speed and big hands and made the Jets D look silly. BUT, Brady had all day to find an opening to get him the ball, and its not like there were great corners gaurding him. the #1 corner dyson wasn't even playing. so that left Revis (rookie), Barrett (haha, are u kidding me), Miller (still more of a return guy), and some other people not worth mentioning in this discussion, to cover moss.

i guess this is the beginning of many quick reaction posts though. flame on, flame on......

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 10:25 AM
Wow, it doesn't get gayer than NE Homers. Annointing Moss after one great game. Moss had as much to do with it as Heath Evans. The only reason why Moss and Brady's greatness exuded was the dominance the offensive line had on the Jets. I think Brady was having picnics in the pocket with Gisele Bunchen(sp.) and just throwing the ball up to the point Stanley Morgan had 12 grabs for 202 yards.

So if he repeates this perfomance 4 more times, then maybe.

Marvin, Holt, Wayne, Ocho Cinco, Smith

TO(yes TO), ANDRE JOHNSON, Javon Walker, Lavernious Coles, Moss all have a legit case for the 6 spot.

Oh, but that did happen to start the 2005 season out if anyone cares to remember. Moss came out smoking his first 4 games in Silver and Black and then he crashed and burned.

bored of education
09-10-2007, 10:26 AM
1. Chad Johnson
2. Tory Holt
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Marvin Harrison
5. Steve Smith
6. Andre Johnson
7. Anquan Boldin/Larry Fitz
9. Javon Walker
10. TO
11. Roy Williams
12. Donald Driver
13. Lee Evans
14. Randy Moss
15. L. Coles
16. Heins Ward
17. Santana Moss

RyanLeaf#1
09-10-2007, 10:43 AM
No Reggie Wayne?

Addict
09-10-2007, 10:54 AM
Moss needs more than 1 good game to be top 5 again, he's got two years of suckage to make up for.

If he looks like he did in week 1 all year, yeah, he's definately back up there.

bigbluedefense
09-10-2007, 11:26 AM
Its not fair how good the patriots are. From management, to coaching, to players on the field...they have it all.

And they run my favorite scheme too :( Damn you NE, damn you to hell.

RaiderNation
09-10-2007, 11:26 AM
TO over Moss. its only been one game for moss

Ewing
09-10-2007, 11:48 AM
Oh, but that did happen to start the 2005 season out if anyone cares to remember. Moss came out smoking his first 4 games in Silver and Black and then he crashed and burned.

Randy Moss' quarterback in 2005: Kerry Collins

Randy Moss' quarterback in 2007: Tom Brady

I highly doubt Moss disappears like he did in Oakland now that he has someone who can actually throw the ball. He'll probably finish the year top five in at least one WR stat.

Shiver
09-10-2007, 12:25 PM
Terrell Owens is by far more deserving than Randy Moss is.

Geo
09-10-2007, 12:26 PM
TO actually run-blocks, and I like his speed more than Moss. I don't question TO's effort on the field.

But I don't think I would put either into a Top 5.

Man_Of_Steel
09-10-2007, 12:38 PM
Moss is still real good but for me the top 5 are set.

Chad Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Smith
Torry Holt
Terrel Owens.

Yes I have Owens over Harrison what you gonna do.

RyanLeaf#1
09-10-2007, 12:44 PM
Marvin Harrison
T.O.
Reggie Wayne
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Smith

LonghornsLegend
09-10-2007, 12:52 PM
Moss is still real good but for me the top 5 are set.

Chad Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Smith
Torry Holt
Terrel Owens.

Yes I have Owens over Harrison what you gonna do.



ummm no you have fitzgerald over harrison which is crazy, you do know its a difference between really talented, and one of the greatest wr's ever to play the game


harrison>fitzgerald


can you say fitzgerald is one of the best wr's to play the game? because you can say that about harrison right now, and he's still playing on that level

P-L
09-10-2007, 01:23 PM
Moss looked fantastic yesterday, but one game doesn't make him a top five receiver.

Addict
09-10-2007, 01:25 PM
Moss looked fantastic yesterday, but one game doesn't make him a top five receiver.

That's what I said as well.

JK17
09-10-2007, 01:27 PM
Randy Moss' quarterback in 2005: Kerry Collins

Randy Moss' quarterback in 2007: Tom Brady

I highly doubt Moss disappears like he did in Oakland now that he has someone who can actually throw the ball. He'll probably finish the year top five in at least one WR stat.

Aside from a low completion percentage though, Collins had a good 2005. He appraoched just about 3800 yards with 20 TD and 12 INT in 15 games.

Granted, he wasn't Tom Brady, and he certianly didn't play as well as those numbers might indicate, but he wasn't the Kerry Collins of today, at least on paper that is.

Edit: Then again, Randy Moss' 2005 season wasn't terrible either. Not Randy Moss of old caliber, but still 1000 yards and 8 TD.

ShutDwn
09-10-2007, 02:06 PM
Did you even watch the game? He beat not one, not two, but THREE defensive backs on that deep route. All three were within a step of him. Then how about that catch where he actually went up over the Jets defender and put the Pats at the goal line?

He is very clearly not 100%, and he still toyed with the Jets. He made them his *****. They didn't even come remotely close to being able to figure out a way to stop him. Now I realize the Jets aren't exactly a great team by any stretch, but they are decent, and it's still the NFL, so anything can happen any given Sunday (as they proved against us last year).

I won't lump him up there yet, because it was one game against average competition that I have a feeling a lot of good WR/QB tandems are going to put up really good numbers against, and quite frankly, I don't care. As long as the Pats get the W at the end of the day, I don't care about what the Randy Factor was...

Doesn't matter who is covering a good WR if they have all that time to run. Nobody doubted he still didn't have enough speed. The WR always has the advantage and you can't cover them for that long.

I question whether you watched the game, Brady could have stood there for 10 seconds sometimes. On that particular play, He had nobody within a few yards around him and wouldn't have for a while longer.

Randy had a great game, but none of the catches were hard, and the Oline deserves the credit. The patriot's oline played ridiculous.

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 02:06 PM
Aside from a low completion percentage though, Collins had a good 2005. He appraoched just about 3800 yards with 20 TD and 12 INT in 15 games.

Granted, he wasn't Tom Brady, and he certianly didn't play as well as those numbers might indicate, but he wasn't the Kerry Collins of today, at least on paper that is.

Edit: Then again, Randy Moss' 2005 season wasn't terrible either. Not Randy Moss of old caliber, but still 1000 yards and 8 TD.

That season was completely carried by 460+ yards in the first 4 games though. Over the next 12 weeks, Moss had 539 yards for an average of 44.9 yards per game. Over that same time period, Jerry Porter had 745 yards for an average of 62.1 yards per game. The point is that there were WRs who were effective for the Raiders in those last 12 games of 2005. Let's not make this about the QB.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-10-2007, 02:15 PM
Moss looked fantastic yesterday, but one game doesn't make him a top five receiver.

That's correct.

Seven years of being arguably the most talented and productive receiver in football makes him top 5.

The Oakland years don't count, in my opinion, as they didn't reflect on his talent, rather his lack of desire to play for such a ****** coaching staff. We all know that Randy plays when Randy wants to play. Does it make him an asshole? Yep. But he's still one of the best in the game in terms of talent, and he never really stopped being one of the best. As long as things are rosy in New England, Randy will continue to produce.

P-L
09-10-2007, 02:27 PM
Is he one of the most talented receivers in the game? Absolutely. However, I need to see more of him. If he comes out the next three weeks and lays an egg, then we won't be having this conversation.

Addict
09-10-2007, 02:28 PM
That's correct.

Seven years of being arguably the most talented and productive receiver in football makes him top 5.

The Oakland years don't count, in my opinion, as they didn't reflect on his talent, rather his lack of desire to play for such a ****** coaching staff. We all know that Randy plays when Randy wants to play. Does it make him an asshole? Yep. But he's still one of the best in the game in terms of talent, and he never really stopped being one of the best. As long as things are rosy in New England, Randy will continue to produce.

average stats over the past two years:

per year:

50.5 rec
776.5 yds
5.5 td

that's very very sad. Talent isn't everything.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-10-2007, 03:04 PM
Nevermind that he beat 3 Jets on the long catch, the fact that he was even able to catch up to that ball, which would have been overthrown to probably 98% of receivers in the league, showed me that Moss still has it.

Ewing
09-10-2007, 03:35 PM
average stats over the past two years:

per year:

50.5 rec
776.5 yds
5.5 td

that's very very sad. Talent isn't everything.

Quarterbacks the last two years:

Kerry Collins
Marques Tuiasosopo
Aaron Brooks
Andrew Walter

That's very very sad. Numbers aren't everything.

bored of education
09-10-2007, 03:37 PM
excuses arent everything

Addict
09-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Quarterbacks the last two years:

Kerry Collins
Marques Tuiasosopo
Aaron Brooks
Andrew Walter

That's very very sad. Numbers aren't everything.

boo-hoo, poor overpayed superstar.

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 03:45 PM
Quarterbacks the last two years:

Kerry Collins
Marques Tuiasosopo
Aaron Brooks
Andrew Walter

That's very very sad. Numbers aren't everything.

And outperformed by Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry in the last 2 seasons as well. Porter in 2005 and Curry in 2006. Don't try to stick it on the QBs because other WRs who are supposedly far less talented than him have done better than he has.

And let's also remember that the debacle that was Art Shell, Tom Walsh and company was only for 1 year. Norv Turner, "the offensive genius," was in charge of the Raiders' game planning and play calling during the 2005 season when Moss came out so hot but sputtered and was surpassed by Jerry Porter in the final 12 weeks of the season.

yo123
09-10-2007, 03:48 PM
Wow, it doesn't get gayer than NE Homers. Annointing Moss after one great game. Moss had as much to do with it as Heath Evans. The only reason why Moss and Brady's greatness exuded was the dominance the offensive line had on the Jets. I think Brady was having picnics in the pocket with Gisele Bunchen(sp.) and just throwing the ball up to the point Stanley Morgan had 12 grabs for 202 yards.

So if he repeates this perfomance 4 more times, then maybe.

Marvin, Holt, Wayne, Ocho Cinco, Smith

TO(yes TO), ANDRE JOHNSON, Javon Walker, Lavernious Coles, Moss all have a legit case for the 6 spot.



excuse me....Laverneuous Coles?

Ewing
09-10-2007, 03:55 PM
And outperformed by Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry in the last 2 seasons as well. Porter in 2005 and Curry in 2006. Don't try to stick it on the QBs because other WRs who are supposedly far less talented than him have done better than he has.

And let's also remember that the debacle that was Art Shell, Tom Walsh and company was only for 1 year. Norv Turner, "the offensive genius," was in charge of the Raiders' game planning and play calling during the 2005 season when Moss came out so hot but sputtered and was surpassed by Jerry Porter in the final 12 weeks of the season.

Would you honestly take Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry over Randy Moss? Give Randy a quarterback that doesn't suck and he's a monster. He'll always be a douche but when he's happy there are only maybe three guys in the league I'd put ahead of him. Moss simply wasn't happy with the crap in Oakland and quite frankly I wouldn't have put up with it either.

Yeah and those coaches sucked. What was the combined record those two years? 6-26.

JK17
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
Would you honestly take Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry over Randy Moss? Give Randy a quarterback that doesn't suck and he's a monster. He'll always be a douche but when he's happy there are only maybe three guys in the league I'd put ahead of him. Moss simply wasn't happy with the crap in Oakland and quite frankly I wouldn't have put up with it either.

And what happens if he's not happy with the crap in New England? What if something goes wrong, do we just forgive him for that too. He's been bad lately. He had a great game yesterday, but that doesn't erase two awful years. He certianly looks on his way to rebounding but not yet.

Yeah and those coaches sucked. What was the combined record those two years? 6-26.

Randy Moss was just as responsible for that record as everyone else was on that team. Coaching may not have been great, but that doesn't excuse bad play, poor discipline, and lack of any form of work ethic.

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 04:05 PM
Would you honestly take Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry over Randy Moss? Give Randy a quarterback that doesn't suck and he's a monster. He'll always be a douche but when he's happy there are only maybe three guys in the league I'd put ahead of him. Moss simply wasn't happy with the crap in Oakland and quite frankly I wouldn't have put up with it either.

Yeah and those coaches sucked. What was the combined record those two years? 6-26.

You continue to fail to see the point. Moss was outperformed by two guys on his own team and with the same QBs, thus there is no point in trying to point to the QB as a reasonable excuse for lack of production the last two seasons from Moss.

With the exception of 4 weeks, Moss was outperformed by Porter and Curry by a large margin with the exact same circumstances. Plain and simple. So please do not use poor wittle Wandy Moss' circumstances as evidence for his supposed greatness. That assertion has now been refuted 3 times and you have done nothing to rebut my arguments.



BTW, I enjoyed the part where you called yourself a douche by means of association with Randy Moss.

"He'll always be a douche...and quite frankly I wouldn't have put up with it either."

I love the logic on this board. Isn't it great njx?

Ewing
09-10-2007, 04:07 PM
And what happens if he's not happy with the crap in New England? What if something goes wrong, do we just forgive him for that too. He's been bad lately. He had a great game yesterday, but that doesn't erase two awful years. He certianly looks on his way to rebounding but not yet.

Unless Brady goes down he's going to stay happy for the rest of the season. He's going to have a good year and probably be in the top five of at least one receiving stat. Do those two awful years erase those incredible years in Minneosta when he had a quarterback?

Randy Moss was just as responsible for that record as everyone else was on that team. Coaching may not have been great, but that doesn't excuse bad play, poor discipline, and lack of any form of work ethic.

How is Moss responsible if Oakland's line was terrible, his quarterbacks sucked and coaches were morons? Blame that on the old fart in the front office who should have retired years ago. Randy had a hand in the Raiders being bad but it's not like he was just as responsible as other people. There were far bigger contributers than him.

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 04:09 PM
And what happens if he's not happy with the crap in New England? What if something goes wrong, do we just forgive him for that too. He's been bad lately. He had a great game yesterday, but that doesn't erase two awful years. He certianly looks on his way to rebounding but not yet.



Randy Moss was just as responsible for that record as everyone else was on that team. Coaching may not have been great, but that doesn't excuse bad play, poor discipline, and lack of any form of work ethic.

I cannot tell you how many times Randy Moss had passes hit him directly in the hands and proceed to either drop to the grass or get tipped for an interception. And we aren't talking about 2 yard plays on 3rd and 15, we are talking about dozens of routes that were past the sticks on 3rd down and almost half a dozen in the end zone. I'm curious how Art Shell and Tom Walsh were able to affect that. That is not even an element of effort or desire, that's just ridiculous.

Moss wants to blame someone for failure in 2006, he can look no further than himself. He took a multitude of points off the board and single-handedly killed drives with his drops.

Addict
09-10-2007, 04:10 PM
Unless Brady goes down he's going to stay happy for the rest of the season. He's going to have a good year and probably be in the top five of at least one receiving stat. Do those two awful years erase those incredible years in Minneosta when he had a quarterback?



How is Moss responsible if Oakland's line was terrible, his quarterbacks sucked and coaches were morons? Blame that on the old fart in the front office who should have retired years ago. Randy had a hand in the Raiders being bad but it's not like he was just as responsible as other people. There were far bigger contributers than him.

Still, Randy's attitude didn't help either. Don't be so blind.

nobodyinparticular
09-10-2007, 04:11 PM
the what where? i don't know what you're talking about. l-o-g-i-c?

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to njx9 again."

Shiver
09-10-2007, 04:12 PM
I gave him some for you NIP.

Addict
09-10-2007, 04:12 PM
"You must spread reputation around before giving it to njx9 again."

I repped him for you.

And for myself, he made me chuckle.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
09-10-2007, 04:15 PM
"You must spread reputation around before giving it to njx9 again."

Man, you sound like such a straddler right about now...

Ewing
09-10-2007, 04:17 PM
Still, Randy's attitude didn't help either. Don't be so blind.

I agree it didn't help but the Raiders knew what they were getting in Randy. You have to make Randy care about the team. You can't just put garbage players around the guy and expect him to try 100 percent. Is it a selfish perspective? Absolutely. It doesn't change the fact that when he's "on" there are few receivers better in the NFL. That's all I'm saying.

Addict
09-10-2007, 04:18 PM
I agree it didn't help but the Raiders knew what they were getting in Randy. You have to make Randy care about the team. You can't just put garbage players around the guy and expect him to try 100 percent. Is it a selfish perspective? Absolutely. It doesn't change the fact that when he's "on" there are few receivers better in the NFL. That's all I'm saying.

but he hasn't been on in two years, so it's not unrealistic that you don't just put him in the top 5, sure potential is one thing, production is another.

JK17
09-10-2007, 04:19 PM
Unless Brady goes down he's going to stay happy for the rest of the season. He's going to have a good year and probably be in the top five of at least one receiving stat. Do those two awful years erase those incredible years in Minneosta when he had a quarterback?

That's not fact, Moss could easily become upset with a number of things irrelevant to Brady staying healthy. Those two awful years dont erase Minnesota, but they were much more recent and relevant. No one doubts he was a great receiver.


How is Moss responsible if Oakland's line was terrible, his quarterbacks sucked and coaches were morons? Blame that on the old fart in the front office who should have retired years ago. Randy had a hand in the Raiders being bad but it's not like he was just as responsible as other people. There were far bigger contributers than him.

Moss dropped balls, didn't try, and by your own admission, didn't care about the team. How did he not contribute a lot to their downfall?

Ewing
09-10-2007, 04:25 PM
but he hasn't been on in two years, so it's not unrealistic that you don't just put him in the top 5, sure potential is one thing, production is another.

I wouldn't put Randy Moss in the top five yet but if he's motivated all year he'll be right back up there. Moss' production while with the Raiders wasn't because of being washed up or not being a good receiver. It was because Al Davis didn't know how to handle Randy Moss.

bored of education
09-10-2007, 04:29 PM
excuse me....Laverneuous Coles?

IMO, one of the most under rated WR in the game. And you want someone to complain about QB issues. The dude posterized Asante Samuel yesterday and had 2 TDs against the team that already won the next two Lombardi's.

Look at his numbers. Dude is nice.

yourfavestoner
09-10-2007, 04:31 PM
I cannot tell you how many times Randy Moss had passes hit him directly in the hands and proceed to either drop to the grass or get tipped for an interception. And we aren't talking about 2 yard plays on 3rd and 15, we are talking about dozens of routes that were past the sticks on 3rd down and almost half a dozen in the end zone. I'm curious how Art Shell and Tom Walsh were able to affect that. That is not even an element of effort or desire, that's just ridiculous.

Moss wants to blame someone for failure in 2006, he can look no further than himself. He took a multitude of points off the board and single-handedly killed drives with his drops.

Wide receivers don't suddenly forget how to catch as they get older. If anything, it's something that they get better at. If you think Moss' drops had to do with ANYTHNG besides a lack of motivation, you're just kidding yourself.

Just because he didn't feel like playing for the Raiders doesn't mean the man still can't play. Especially on a team that is guaranteed to win their division, and will likely go deep into the playoffs. And never mind that he's playing with arguably the best quarterback in the league.

JETS5128
09-10-2007, 04:55 PM
IMO, one of the most under rated WR in the game. And you want someone to complain about QB issues. The dude posterized Asante Samuel yesterday and had 2 TDs against the team that already won the next two Lombardi's.

Look at his numbers. Dude is nice.

Although i agree, i wouldn't put him top 5, definetly top 10 though. Maybe top 5 in terms of YAC ability though (how else to you get yards with Penny at QB) lol.

In terms of Moss, no way he is top 5 yet, i won't be ready to give him that until at least half the season is over, honestly people, it's one game calm the **** down

CC.SD
09-10-2007, 05:05 PM
There's an overreaction thread on the first page.

Brady had a quarterback's wet dream (besides maybe a hot actress and a supermodel) in that he literally stood around for about ten seconds every pass play. The jets got zero pressure, for whatever reason. If Randy lights up the Bolts this week, I'll give him props, but for now, I will give a hearty salute to the Patriot O-line.

portermvp84
09-10-2007, 05:32 PM
Moss over T.O. Moss have an elite QB that can get him the ball, and i could see him easily getting 5+ catches every game.

yourfavestoner
09-10-2007, 06:40 PM
but it also doesn't mean that one (admittedly) great game suddenly elevates him back to top WR and erases the last few years completely. there simply is not yet substantial evidence to suggest that moss will continue to play like this through an entire season while the most recent available evidence suggests that, at best, it would be silly to draw any conclusions based on up to 4 games.

Oh, I agree. It's a wait and see game, and nobody could justifiably call him a top five receiver right now with the past two years. I'm just of the opinion that the past two years had everything to do with his attitude and relatively nothing to do with a decline in physical skill.

Jay
09-10-2007, 07:16 PM
Doesn't matter who is covering a good WR if they have all that time to run. Nobody doubted he still didn't have enough speed. The WR always has the advantage and you can't cover them for that long.

I question whether you watched the game, Brady could have stood there for 10 seconds sometimes. On that particular play, He had nobody within a few yards around him and wouldn't have for a while longer.

Randy had a great game, but none of the catches were hard, and the Oline deserves the credit. The patriot's oline played ridiculous.

What does that have to do with his catches? The amount of time a QB has to throw a ball means absolutely NOTHING to a receiver catching a ball. He ran great routes. Peroid. Whether or not someone was near him has everything to do with his ability to run a route, which you now, kind of contributes to his performance. You know, just a little. Randy did his job and did it extremely well. That's all there is to it.

And for the person that said if Randy puts up his Minnesota numbers he might be back in the top 5... if he puts up those numbers, he's the best WR in the league, and that's all there is to it...

bored of education
09-10-2007, 07:21 PM
if he gets 100 rec., 1500 yards, 18 tds and Marvin, Tory, Reggie, T.O., Chad have under 70 recs under 1000 yards and under 8 tds then maybe.

fenikz
09-10-2007, 07:56 PM
from a pure talent stand point i don't think you can argue with Moss being top 5

JETS5128
09-10-2007, 08:02 PM
What does that have to do with his catches? The amount of time a QB has to throw a ball means absolutely NOTHING to a receiver catching a ball. He ran great routes. Peroid. Whether or not someone was near him has everything to do with his ability to run a route, which you now, kind of contributes to his performance. You know, just a little. Randy did his job and did it extremely well. That's all there is to it.

And for the person that said if Randy puts up his Minnesota numbers he might be back in the top 5... if he puts up those numbers, he's the best WR in the league, and that's all there is to it...

It is much easier for a reciever to get open when he has 5 seconds to do so. As opposed to only having 3 seconds to get open. Not even Champ Bailey can cover Reche Caldwell for 5 seconds

Jay
09-10-2007, 08:11 PM
He still has to get open and catch the ball. Irrelevant.

Jay
09-10-2007, 08:12 PM
if he gets 100 rec., 1500 yards, 18 tds and Marvin, Tory, Reggie, T.O., Chad have under 70 recs under 1000 yards and under 8 tds then maybe.

That makes absolutely no sense.

JETS5128
09-10-2007, 08:19 PM
He still has to get open and catch the ball. Irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? The more time brady has in the pocket, the more time Moss has to get open, thus making it easier for him to get open.

bored of education
09-10-2007, 08:30 PM
If he has one season of old randy it doesnt catapult him to the number one WR spot

Jay
09-10-2007, 08:33 PM
If he has one season of the old Randy, that would make him the best WR in the league this year. Because that's what he was then, which is evident by the fact that he has the second greatest TD per game played ratio in NFL history, which is pretty impressive considering how bad the last two years were...

JK17
09-10-2007, 08:35 PM
If he has one season of old randy it doesnt catapult him to the number one WR spot

If he has his old Randy Moss season this year there is no doubt it puts him to the top. He was simply insane and impossible to stop in Minnesota. The question is whether he can do it or not, and how much he may have slowed down.

EDIT: Or at least he will have been the best WR this year, if thats the case. Maybe not the next season, but if he can repeat not only his numbers, but his dominance, he would be the best.

It's really not a question of how good he is if he can repeat it, its whether or not he can be good enough to repeat it.