PDA

View Full Version : The Official G-Men 2008 NFL Draft Thread


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

Turtlepower
09-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Everyone else has one, so we should start one as well.

I would love Keith Rivers as our WLB

skiinginNJ
09-10-2007, 02:42 PM
after watching the game, lets hope kenny phillips is available

Number 10
09-10-2007, 02:54 PM
I take notes on every game I watch. Just some things for you to keep an eye on if your ever home on a Saturday-

Running Backs

I know we 're deep there but do we have an every down back? I don't think so. The likes of WV's Steve Slaton, Clemson's James Davis, and Rutgers Ray Rice are all juniors that I think will declare and could be available where I think we will be picking (12-16).

Offensive Tackles

I think we almost have to look to grab one with one of our first 2 picks. The likes of Jake Long and Alex Boone from the Big 10 are two of my favorites and Barry Richardson was strong in the game I watched last week. I started to fall in love with Oklahoma's junior LT Phil Loadholt. Not sure he will come out this year but damn, looks like a replica of Long.

Linebackers

Still think this will be one of four positions we go in round 1. Dan Connor reminds me a ton of Poz, which means I like him as an NFL prospect. Keep your eye on Wheeler (Ga Tech) too....he is a playmaker that plays very fast and very physical. My darkhorse here is yet again another underclassman from Oklahoma, Mike Reed. 6'0 255 with speed and strength, hits like a ton of bricks. Reminds me a bit of Lofa Tatupu.

Defensive Back

Not sure we would go CB in round 1, but I wouldn't rule it out because I don't see Madison and RW here in 08. If we are in position to take Kenny Phillips from the U, that means we had a really, really bad season. He looks like he fits the mold of an Ed Reed type centerfielder that can lay the wood. I really like Rutgers' Courtney Green as well but he is also a junior. And whyyy not, back to the Oklahoma defense. I think I found my favorite college CB in the nation in Sooners junior Reggie Smith. Kid is a flat out stud...gets in and out with explosiveness and has outstanding size (6'0-198). His senior teammate Marcus Walker looks like he has some potential as well.



All in all....watch OU when you get the chance.

scottyboy
09-10-2007, 03:32 PM
after how poorly bulter played last night, i actually hope courtney greene enters and we take him. he's just the kind of hard hitting play making safety we need

NYGibril28
09-10-2007, 04:30 PM
i believe we'll be picking in the early to middle of the first round. (8-16)

I think first and foremost, we need to bring in a coverage safety. Gibril is great against the run, but combined he and Butler are a liability against the pass. Unless Michael Johnson or Craig Dahl steps up, highly unlikely however, I would love to see Kenny Phillips in a Giants uniform. A veteran would be better though, maybe some one like Mike Doss or Jordan Babineaux.

Secondly, a LT. Diehl is a Pro Bowl caliber player in my eyes, but at Guard, not Tackle. Jake Long or Sam Baker would be a perfect acquisition. Or even someone like Gosder Cherlous or Ryan Clady. I like Clemson's Barry Richardson too in the early 2nd.

Thirdly, DT. I like Robbins, but he and Cofield aren't anyone that will blow you away. Frank Okam at Texas comes to mind, or if we can somehow get our hands on Glenn Dorsey, that would be great.

a compliment RB to Jacobs. Ward was solid last night, but the Cowboys run defense isn't that great. Not too mention he got a bulk of those yards on one carry. A quick change-of-pace guy, like Michael Turner from San Diego, or if we look to the draft, someone like James Davis or Yvenson Bernard(Round 2 or 3).

Jonny
09-10-2007, 06:19 PM
Diehl is good enough at OT. We can't afford an early pick there.

We need an OLB who can cover, fast CBs, and a hard hitting safety.

Number 10
09-10-2007, 06:59 PM
Diehl is good enough at OT. We can't afford an early pick there.

We need an OLB who can cover, fast CBs, and a hard hitting safety.

"Can't afford an early pick there"

As in LT?

One of the reasons this team hasn't been able to get over the hump is that mentality right there.

Damix
09-10-2007, 07:07 PM
I'd rather build up our D, not even kidding I would not be upset if every FA and draft pick is a defensive player next year

NYGibril28
09-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Diehl is good enough at OT. We can't afford an early pick there.

We need an OLB who can cover, fast CBs, and a hard hitting safety.

We don't need a hard hitting safety. We need a safety that can cover. Safeties that are big hitters in the NFL are for the most part, overrated. Over the course of a 16-game season, how many actual big hits do they get. 5? A safety that can cover some ground is much more valuable to a team than a safety that can lay the wood.

Number 10
09-10-2007, 07:33 PM
I'd rather build up our D, not even kidding I would not be upset if every FA and draft pick is a defensive player next year

6 of our last 8 day one picks have been on defense

Turtlepower
09-11-2007, 12:58 AM
I guess it also depends who our coach is next year. We might be instilling a run heavy offense, so we draft a RB or we might be pass heavy and then need to focus much more on our defense because I think besides o-line and RB, we are fine on offense. =D

bigbluedefense
09-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Guys Im keeping my eye on, and positions Im keeping my eye on. This is my power rankings so far. This is very preliminary.


Left Tackle

1. Sam Baker: Great footwork, great pass protector, does an excellent job getting to the 2nd level on run plays, he's quick, and he fits our offensive system perfectly.

2. Jake Long: Big strong run blocker. Can work on his footwork and pass protection. He has inconsistent play. Shows flashes of dominance. Im still not sure if he's more suited for RT, I need to see more. When he's on, he's ON. And he's dominant. But his inconsistency scares me a little. And what scared me a little was, for a guy so strong, Ive seen him get thrown to the floor once in awhile. Whats up with that?

3. Ryan Clady: Great measureables. Long arms. Has potential to be better than Long and Baker. From what I see, I like his run blocking, but I need to see more of him to determine his pass protection.


Safeties

1. Kenny Phillips: duh

2. Darien Williams: Need to see more, but he seems solid. This safety class outside of Phillips isn't as elite as last years. I gotta see more.


Cornerbacks

Haven't done any scouting on them yet.

OLBs

1. Keith Rivers - Fast, great in coverage, flies to the ball. Solid run stuffer. A little small but has a good frame to him. A speedy type of coverage LB that suits our needs.

2. Phillip Wheeler: Another Rivers type. Not as good, but he seems to play a little faster. Provides essentially the same type of player that Rivers gives us, just not as good.

3. Dan Conner: Paul Poz part 2. Plays with great instincts. Poor man's AJ Hawk. Great character and leadership. All the intangibles. Usually I rank guys like this #1, but we need athleticism in the worst way, so Im dropping him to #3 unless he shows equal measureables to the other 2 at the combine.


DTs

1. Glenn Dorsey: Warren Sapp part 2.

2. Cedric Ellis: Similar strengths to Dorsey, but doesn't play as strong. But also another great penetrator

3. BJ Raji: Possible NT? Ive seen very little on him, but we need more bulk inside, so I'll keep a closer eye on him.


Thats it so far, right now this is very preliminary, but thats what i see so far.

Turtlepower
09-19-2007, 11:59 AM
Guys Im keeping my eye on, and positions Im keeping my eye on. This is my power rankings so far. This is very preliminary.


Left Tackle

1. Sam Baker: Great footwork, great pass protector, does an excellent job getting to the 2nd level on run plays, he's quick, and he fits our offensive system perfectly.

2. Jake Long: Big strong run blocker. Can work on his footwork and pass protection. He has inconsistent play. Shows flashes of dominance. Im still not sure if he's more suited for RT, I need to see more. When he's on, he's ON. And he's dominant. But his inconsistency scares me a little. And what scared me a little was, for a guy so strong, Ive seen him get thrown to the floor once in awhile. Whats up with that?

3. Ryan Clady: Great measureables. Long arms. Has potential to be better than Long and Baker. From what I see, I like his run blocking, but I need to see more of him to determine his pass protection.


Safeties

1. Kenny Phillips: duh

2. Darien Williams: Need to see more, but he seems solid. This safety class outside of Phillips isn't as elite as last years. I gotta see more.


Cornerbacks

Haven't done any scouting on them yet.

OLBs

1. Keith Rivers - Fast, great in coverage, flies to the ball. Solid run stuffer. A little small but has a good frame to him. A speedy type of coverage LB that suits our needs.

2. Phillip Wheeler: Another Rivers type. Not as good, but he seems to play a little faster. Provides essentially the same type of player that Rivers gives us, just not as good.

3. Dan Conner: Paul Poz part 2. Plays with great instincts. Poor man's AJ Hawk. Great character and leadership. All the intangibles. Usually I rank guys like this #1, but we need athleticism in the worst way, so Im dropping him to #3 unless he shows equal measureables to the other 2 at the combine.


DTs

1. Glenn Dorsey: Warren Sapp part 2.

2. Cedric Ellis: Similar strengths to Dorsey, but doesn't play as strong. But also another great penetrator

3. BJ Raji: Possible NT? Ive seen very little on him, but we need more bulk inside, so I'll keep a closer eye on him.


Thats it so far, right now this is very preliminary, but thats what i see so far.

So is that all the order of positions of need? If not, then I would put these for positions of need through the draft:

1. OLB (I would prefer to solve this in the draft)
2. CB (A lot of CB draft busts come about by drafting a CB)
3. S (A stud Safety would be nice)
4. LT (Diehl is nothing more than a temporary solution)
5. DT (We've needed one for years and Jay Alford is not the answer)

bigbluedefense
09-19-2007, 12:03 PM
So is that all the order of positions of need? If not, then I would put these for positions of need through the draft:

1. OLB (I would prefer to solve this in the draft)
2. CB (A lot of CB draft busts come about by drafting a CB)
3. S (A stud Safety would be nice)
4. LT (Diehl is nothing more than a temporary solution)
5. DT (We've needed one for years and Jay Alford is not the answer)

No, I didn't order them.

Me personally, I still want an LT first. They don't fall out of trees. This is a great year to get em, we'll have a high pick to get one, so let's get one. This franchise has gone entirely too long without a franchise LT. Who was the last one we had? Did we ever have one?

If I were to order em according to my personal interest, it would be:

1. LT
2. Safety
3. OLB
4. CB
5. DT

But, of course, you can't look at it that way. Depends on who's on the board, and the talent available at each position. I don't want us to force the need and pass up on a more talented player at another position of need.

Turtlepower
09-19-2007, 12:09 PM
No, I didn't order them.

Me personally, I still want an LT first. They don't fall out of trees. This is a great year to get em, we'll have a high pick to get one, so let's get one. This franchise has gone entirely too long without a franchise LT. Who was the last one we had? Did we ever have one?

If I were to order em according to my personal interest, it would be:

1. LT
2. Safety
3. OLB
4. CB
5. DT

But, of course, you can't look at it that way. Depends on who's on the board, and the talent available at each position. I don't want us to force the need and pass up on a more talented player at another position of need.

I say if Baker, Long, Phillips are all off the board and we are in the 6-10 range and don't watch to reach, I would be more than willing to trade down. Teams like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Minny, Tampa Bay will definitely be looking for a QB and teams like Buffalo, Carolina, Chicago, Detroit, and Kansas City might be looking for QBs. There will be a lot of first round trades this year and I hope we are apart of one of them if value doesn't suit us.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2007, 12:13 PM
I say if Baker, Long, Phillips are all off the board and we are in the 6-10 range and don't watch to reach, I would be more than willing to trade down. Teams like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Minny, Tampa Bay will definitely be looking for a QB and teams like Buffalo, Carolina, Chicago, Detroit, and Kansas City might be looking for QBs. There will be a lot of first round trades this year and I hope we are apart of one of them if value doesn't suit us.

Agreed. Id love to nab another draft pick by trading back. Keith Rivers will be available later, and Id love him. Trading back, and getting Rivers and 2 2nd rounders would be great.

If Baker, Long, Dorsey, or Phillips are all off the board, we gotta trade down.

Number 10
09-19-2007, 09:48 PM
Hey BBD-

You know how I am about the draft...some thoughts-

-Haven't liked Baker since last year, just feel he will be easily overpowered in the NFL in my opinion. I still have Long as my #1 although I agree the consistency isn't where it needs to be. But the attitude is there and when he's at his best, he is better than Joe Thomas.

-Safeties...I'm actually not as high on Phillips as others are. People say he is the perfect blend of Ed Reed and Sean Taylor and while I see that, I see it more as him being similar to Taylor in that he can lay the wood but not as well, and being similar to Reed in that he is always around the ball but not as often. He seems stiff in coverage at times....I'm just nervous about him.

-Linebackers...I'm keeping my eye on an underclassman that I think will declare this year. Erin Henderson of Maryland seems to be what an attacking defense needs, whether it be on the weakside and possibly eventually in the middle. He has freakish measurables and the whole nine but he is ultra-productive and have heard raving reviews about his work ethic/attitude. If you can catch a Maryland game, I suggest putting the eyeball on him, he's #1.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2007, 11:02 PM
Hey BBD-

You know how I am about the draft...some thoughts-

-Haven't liked Baker since last year, just feel he will be easily overpowered in the NFL in my opinion. I still have Long as my #1 although I agree the consistency isn't where it needs to be. But the attitude is there and when he's at his best, he is better than Joe Thomas.

-Safeties...I'm actually not as high on Phillips as others are. People say he is the perfect blend of Ed Reed and Sean Taylor and while I see that, I see it more as him being similar to Taylor in that he can lay the wood but not as well, and being similar to Reed in that he is always around the ball but not as often. He seems stiff in coverage at times....I'm just nervous about him.

-Linebackers...I'm keeping my eye on an underclassman that I think will declare this year. Erin Henderson of Maryland seems to be what an attacking defense needs, whether it be on the weakside and possibly eventually in the middle. He has freakish measurables and the whole nine but he is ultra-productive and have heard raving reviews about his work ethic/attitude. If you can catch a Maryland game, I suggest putting the eyeball on him, he's #1.

Thats the thing that surprises me about Baker. From my scouting of him and Long the past year or so including this year, Ive seen him handle a bullrush with more consistency than Long. I can't explain how or why, Id think the same thing youre saying, but for whatever reason, he handles it very well. Ive seen Long thrown to the floor more than Baker. Baker just has great footwork, I think thats why he's more consistent right now. Theres no question that Long has more upside, but Baker seems to be right now, to me at least, the safer pick. And he fits our offense more. We're not gonna be a run heavy team with Eli as our qb. We need an elite pass protector, and I think Baker is better in that regards compared to Long. So far at least. Ive flip flopped between these 2 before, and I probably will again by the end of the year. Right now though, Im liking Baker a little more. Long's potential is definately enticing though.

As for LBs, I completely forgot about Cushing. He's actually my favorite LB in this class. He's versatile, and he has Marcus Washington potential. We're hoping Kiwi can be that guy, but if he doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind having Cushing at all. Great size, great versatility, great speed, instincts, can cover, stuff the run, rush the passer both standing up and putting his hand on the dirt...he's the best LB in my eyes. I completely forgot about him.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2007, 11:45 PM
It all depends on if Coughlin is fired and if so who our replacement is. You say with Eli we'll never be run heavy but if we get a new coach in here that just wants Eli to "manage" the games because Jacobs did well then we'll see if Long or Baker is the better fit.

skiinginNJ
09-20-2007, 03:36 PM
BBD, i absolutely love cushing, he is a beast and would be awesome in just about any defense. i love rivers and connor as well. being from NJ, i knew all about cushing since he was in HS, and he is just crazy- i wouldnt be suprised if he declared and ended up as the top LB in the draft, i think his workouts will be that good and i think his play speaks for itself

i watched the maryland/WV game and was pretty impressed by erin henderson- he was always around the ball against a tough offense. he has excellent measurables as well

havent seen enough of phillips, so i cant make a judgement on him other than what i have read

Number 10
09-20-2007, 04:28 PM
BBD, i absolutely love cushing, he is a beast and would be awesome in just about any defense. i love rivers and connor as well. being from NJ, i knew all about cushing since he was in HS, and he is just crazy- i wouldnt be suprised if he declared and ended up as the top LB in the draft, i think his workouts will be that good and i think his play speaks for itself

i watched the maryland/WV game and was pretty impressed by erin henderson- he was always around the ball against a tough offense. he has excellent measurables as well

havent seen enough of phillips, so i cant make a judgement on him other than what i have read

He'll be on ESPN tonight.

scottyboy
09-20-2007, 05:22 PM
ok, guys, now since it's physically impossible for me to take off my RU homer glasses, i need your opinion on Courtney Greene. granted he may not enter, but thoughts on him and possibly being in big blue.

Number 10
09-20-2007, 06:19 PM
ok, guys, now since it's physically impossible for me to take off my RU homer glasses, i need your opinion on Courtney Greene. granted he may not enter, but thoughts on him and possibly being in big blue.

I like him a lot and I really don't care for Rutgers that much. He would be my #2 rated FS and right behind Phillips....as I am not as high on Phillips as some are.

Forenci
09-20-2007, 09:05 PM
I really like Keith Rivers right now as our potential first round pick. I think he drastically improves not only the linebacker position, but also helps our defense as a whole. I think with a great linebacker, in particular one that can cover someone like Rivers can, it will drastically help out Kiwi and Pierce.

If Pierce has some good coverage linebackers next to him, I think he's superb.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a really good coverage safety. I personally think Gibril has improved in coverage. I mean, he's had interceptions, but that doesn't mean he's done well in coverage. From what I've actually seen, he seems to improved. I'd say he's a grade above Sean Taylor and Roy Williams in that regard.

I've watched Jake Long, and from what I've seen..when he's on..man..is he on. He can just plow guys to no end. Of course, I think Baker fits our scheme better, but who knows what it might be depending on who our coach is next year.

I don't think this year is a strong year for a first round free safety, but maybe it's just me.

scottyboy
09-21-2007, 06:44 AM
I really like Keith Rivers right now as our potential first round pick. I think he drastically improves not only the linebacker position, but also helps our defense as a whole. I think with a great linebacker, in particular one that can cover someone like Rivers can, it will drastically help out Kiwi and Pierce.

If Pierce has some good coverage linebackers next to him, I think he's superb.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a really good coverage safety. I personally think Gibril has improved in coverage. I mean, he's had interceptions, but that doesn't mean he's done well in coverage. From what I've actually seen, he seems to improved. I'd say he's a grade above Sean Taylor and Roy Williams in that regard.

I've watched Jake Long, and from what I've seen..when he's on..man..is he on. He can just plow guys to no end. Of course, I think Baker fits our scheme better, but who knows what it might be depending on who our coach is next year.

I don't think this year is a strong year for a first round free safety, but maybe it's just me.

getting Rivers in the 1st and Courtney Greene in the 2nd would be a wet dream for me

bigbluedefense
09-21-2007, 12:11 PM
BBD, i absolutely love cushing, he is a beast and would be awesome in just about any defense. i love rivers and connor as well. being from NJ, i knew all about cushing since he was in HS, and he is just crazy- i wouldnt be suprised if he declared and ended up as the top LB in the draft, i think his workouts will be that good and i think his play speaks for itself

i watched the maryland/WV game and was pretty impressed by erin henderson- he was always around the ball against a tough offense. he has excellent measurables as well

havent seen enough of phillips, so i cant make a judgement on him other than what i have read


I love versatile players. He reminds me of Vrabel/Washington to a tee. Id love to have that on our team.

And welcome to the board :)

skiinginNJ
09-22-2007, 07:48 PM
was impressed by connor today. he is on a different level than poz for me

Forenci
09-23-2007, 11:36 AM
Eh, the thing about Connor is, I don't see him being as fast or as good in coverage as Keith Rivers is. I mean, he's pretty good, but not nearly as good as Rivers in that regard in my eyes.

I see Connor as a more of a downhill 3-4 ILB. Of course, he could probably play any position at LB, I just see him being a better inside linebacker.

skiinginNJ
09-23-2007, 04:18 PM
rivers is more athletic, but i dont think he is as complete or has the instincts of connor, who to me looks more athletic than most give him credit for

Forenci
09-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Oh, I agree, I think Conners is athletic too, but I just think Rivers is a level above him as far as athleticism.

On another note, if we have the opportunity to draft Zbikowski from Notre Dame, I'm REALLY hoping we don't draft him. To me, he seems exceptionally overrated. Kind of reminds me of a Roy Williams type safety. He makes some interceptions and big tackles on the line of scrimmage, but I think he's pretty bad in coverage. I just hope we don't draft another safety who can't cover.

I hope we get a chance to draft a good running back sometime in the third round. I'd love it if a guy like Tashard Choice or Mike Hart fell into our lap. I think Choice will be gone before then, but because of Hart's size and lack of top speed he could fall into the third. Though I don't suspect him to.

skiinginNJ
09-23-2007, 07:00 PM
rivers is definatley on a different level in terms of athleticsm, my only question is how will he hold up against the run. i think connors is solid enough in pass coverage and his play against the run and rushing the passer are pretty exceptional. he is such a hard nose player too

i would be happy with either rivers or connor

bigbluedefense
09-24-2007, 10:56 AM
Sam Baker continues to impress me. I think this kid is the real deal.

Turtlepower
09-26-2007, 10:08 PM
Here is who I would like the Giants to draft according to round:

1. OLB Keith Rivers USC
This guy is just an animal. Enough said.

2. CB Zack Bowman Nebraska
I would have said Mike Jenkins, but I think he is gone by this point, but I love Zack Bowman. One of the better open field, CB tacklers in this draft and if he could play the way he did prior to 2006, he would be a stud to pick up.

3. S Quintin Demps UTEP
I never like addressing only one side of the ball strictly on Day 1, but it is apparent that defense is our problem. As of now, he could still be available, but I think by the time the draft rolls around he will be picked up in round 2 simply because of teams' need for a stud safety.

4. OT Pedro Sosa Rutgers
He has a great body and could see playing time quickly. It is also always good to bring in a local kid.

5. FB Jacob Hester LSU
If we don't see a need to get a RB, then I believe we should address our FB position (or lack there of). I like Hester who could also come in immediately at least on special teams.

6. DT Derek Lokey Texas
Doesn't have the physical tools that Okam possesses, but he seems to outshine him on the field. DT is a need and Lokey could come in and at least make the PS, but also have a shot at 4th string considering how pitiful Alford has been.

7. WR Dexter Jackson Appalachian St.
It's the 7th round. Time to just have fun.

skiinginNJ
09-26-2007, 10:21 PM
if we are gonna draft a fullback, id rather grab owen schmitt- that guy is a beast and he is very versatlie- strong, fast, great blocker, and a good reciever

Turtlepower
09-26-2007, 10:22 PM
if we are gonna draft a fullback, id rather grab owen schmidt- that guy is a beast and he is very versatlie- strong, fast, great blocker, and a good reciever

He'll be gone no later than the third, possibly the second. He is a man beast, but we have more pressing needs. If he is available day 2, I would scoop him up in a second, but not Day 1 for us.

skiinginNJ
09-26-2007, 10:25 PM
the value of FB's is really low- no one thinks he can be a RB like leonard


id be suprised if he goes in the second, unless someone thinks he is an H-Back/TE type

bigbluedefense
09-27-2007, 09:53 AM
If we're going LB, right now the 2 guys I have my eyes on are Brian Cushing and Keith Rivers.

Cushing is my favorite LB prospect, but it really depends on what we do with Kiwi and how he develops.

If Kiwi develops into the Marcus Washington type of rushbacker we hope for, then we don't need Cushing. But if he doesn't, Id prefer drafting Cushing and using him in that type of role.

if Kiwi does pan out, then we need a WILL who can move sideline to sideline (we need one of these regardless) so Rivers is the BPA in that regards.

Turtlepower
09-27-2007, 01:27 PM
If we're going LB, right now the 2 guys I have my eyes on are Brian Cushing and Keith Rivers.

Cushing is my favorite LB prospect, but it really depends on what we do with Kiwi and how he develops.

If Kiwi develops into the Marcus Washington type of rushbacker we hope for, then we don't need Cushing. But if he doesn't, Id prefer drafting Cushing and using him in that type of role.

if Kiwi does pan out, then we need a WILL who can move sideline to sideline (we need one of these regardless) so Rivers is the BPA in that regards.

I love Cushing, but I don't think that he will declare. USC guys tend to really enjoy playing for Carroll and stay for four years. I think your point about Kiwi is correct, but I personally never liked moving him to OLB in the first place, so I feel that by next season he will be back in the DE rotation.

Number 10
09-27-2007, 10:52 PM
Plus Cushing has been banged up pretty badly the past 8-10 games.

moc182
09-28-2007, 02:20 AM
I'm also not huge on Cushing. Don't get me wrong I love him as a 34 pass rusher but I don't see him carrying a first round grade as a linebacker. He's not a very fluid athlete, and I could really see him struggling in coverage.

Jughead10
09-28-2007, 07:09 AM
If we are gonna tap back into the USC talent pool, I would much rather have Ellis or Rivers. I think Ellis is probably the perfect fit for Spags' scheme however Rivers can probably help us out more immediately.

bigbluedefense
09-28-2007, 10:15 AM
Cushing in all likelihood will stay at USC bc of his injury concerns. If he does come out though, I really do want him if Kiwi doesn't work out at SAM because having a versatile LB like that is priceless. Just look at what Washington does for the Skins. You can't put a price on that kind of versatility.

The USC guys other than him that I like are Rivers, Ellis and Baker. Ellis is a little light, and I prefer bigger DTs.

I know that type of UT fits Spags system, but we need more bulk inside to stop the run. Anyway, on 3rd down we come out with Tuck at UT so it doesn't matter anyway.

I really want to see Wilk on the field, and see what he can do for us. I have suspicions though that he's out at least half the season, and the team is staying hush hush about his injury.

Number 10
09-28-2007, 12:09 PM
If EJ Henderson comes out, he's my #1 WLB prospect. Could evenually move to Pierce's spot after a year or two.

He'll be playing Rutgers tomorrow on ABC at 3:30 if you haven't seen him play yet.

bigbluedefense
09-28-2007, 12:15 PM
If EJ Henderson comes out, he's my #1 WLB prospect. Could evenually move to Pierce's spot after a year or two.

He'll be playing Rutgers tomorrow on ABC at 3:30 if you haven't seen him play yet.

Will check him out.

Whats your thoughts on Clady so far? I like his arm length, but I think he needs to pack on weight. I have him rated behind Baker and Long at the moment, but I need to see more of him.

Jughead10
09-28-2007, 12:16 PM
If EJ Henderson comes out, he's my #1 WLB prospect. Could evenually move to Pierce's spot after a year or two.

He'll be playing Rutgers tomorrow on ABC at 3:30 if you haven't seen him play yet.

Erin Henderson you mean. EJ plays for the Vikings. However Erin is definitely better than his brother at the same point in their careers.

Number 10
09-28-2007, 01:02 PM
Erin Henderson you mean. EJ plays for the Vikings. However Erin is definitely better than his brother at the same point in their careers.

Yes I mean Erin, my bad.

Number 10
09-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Will check him out.

Whats your thoughts on Clady so far? I like his arm length, but I think he needs to pack on weight. I have him rated behind Baker and Long at the moment, but I need to see more of him.

wasn't impressed by him last year and I have only seen him once this season, which was last night. He has tools, but I was not overly impressed with him. Similar to Baker in many facets thus I have him behind Long.

My #1 LT is still the kid from Oklahoma but he's a junior and I'm not sure he'll declare. He is such a beast....does everything Jake Long can do in the run game and does everything Sam Baker can do in pass protection. As of right now I am comparing him to a Chris Samuels with a higher ceiling.

bigbluedefense
09-28-2007, 01:06 PM
wasn't impressed by him last year and I have only seen him once this season, which was last night. He has tools, but I was not overly impressed with him. Similar to Baker in many facets thus I have him behind Long.

My #1 LT is still the kid from Oklahoma but he's a junior and I'm not sure he'll declare. He is such a beast....does everything Jake Long can do in the run game and does everything Sam Baker can do in pass protection. As of right now I am comparing him to a Chris Samuels with a higher ceiling.

Ohhh, I know who youre talking about. The 350 lb monster from Oklahoma? Id LOVE to have that guy. I thought he was a sophomore though? He's easily the #1 Tackle in college football to me.

I actually think Oklahoma takes the whole thing this year. They can give USC a run for the money.

Number 10
09-28-2007, 01:12 PM
Ohhh, I know who youre talking about. The 350 lb monster from Oklahoma? Id LOVE to have that guy. I thought he was a sophomore though? He's easily the #1 Tackle in college football to me.

I actually think Oklahoma takes the whole thing this year. They can give USC a run for the money.

He's a junior....first year transfer from JUCO which is why I have a feeling he'll stick around next year.

But I watch the LT in every college game I watch and he is by far the best. He is everything you want in a top pick in terms of attitude and talent. I sent an email to their athletic department to get some info on him and they absolutely raved about his work ethic on the field and in the classroom and they say he's always out volunteering for different organizations. Sounds like a potential #1 pick if the right team is selecting first.

Jughead10
09-28-2007, 01:15 PM
He's a junior....first year transfer from JUCO which is why I have a feeling he'll stick around next year.

But I watch the LT in every college game I watch and he is by far the best. He is everything you want in a top pick in terms of attitude and talent. I sent an email to their athletic department to get some info on him and they absolutely raved about his work ethic on the field and in the classroom and they say he's always out volunteering for different organizations. Sounds like a potential #1 pick if the right team is selecting first.

So if he is this talented, and his work ethic in the classroom in great, why did he go to JUCO?

bigbluedefense
09-28-2007, 01:16 PM
He's a junior....first year transfer from JUCO which is why I have a feeling he'll stick around next year.

But I watch the LT in every college game I watch and he is by far the best. He is everything you want in a top pick in terms of attitude and talent. I sent an email to their athletic department to get some info on him and they absolutely raved about his work ethic on the field and in the classroom and they say he's always out volunteering for different organizations. Sounds like a potential #1 pick if the right team is selecting first.

That kid is gonna be special. I really like what I see out of him. He could be the best LT prospect to come out in awhile.

Ive been trying to keep an eye on safeties too, but I don't know much about this class. Any names to look out for?

Number 10
09-28-2007, 02:20 PM
So if he is this talented, and his work ethic in the classroom in great, why did he go to JUCO?

You got me....

I would assume that he was an idiot in high school that turned things around and got his head on straight once he got out of high school. It happens.

Number 10
09-28-2007, 02:44 PM
That kid is gonna be special. I really like what I see out of him. He could be the best LT prospect to come out in awhile.

Ive been trying to keep an eye on safeties too, but I don't know much about this class. Any names to look out for?

There are only 2 I've been impressed by and they're both juniors. Obviosuly Kenny Phillips who again, has the tools to be great but like I said awhile ago, I'm not nearly as high on him as most are. I hate the guys that call him the perfect blend of Taylor and Reed because it simply isn't true. He isn't half the physical player Taylor was at the U and he isn't half the leader/playmaker that Reed was at the U.

If Rutgers' Courtney Greene keeps this level of play throughout the season and he declares, I'd seriously consider putting him ahead of Phillips. Phillips is streaky with a higher ceiling and Greene is a consistent lower ceiling player but with a higher floor.

scottyboy
09-28-2007, 02:48 PM
10, I'd absolutly love Greene as you guys all know!! :D

no I'm not sold on picking a OT in round 1, no matter who it is, I'd rather go OLB, S, or CB. This being said, what are you guys' thoughts on picking Zuttah from RU, or keeping DD at LT and draft a LG? or hell, giving Boothe a shot

Turtlepower
09-28-2007, 02:51 PM
10, I'd absolutly love Greene as you guys all know!! :D

no I'm not sold on picking a OT in round 1, no matter who it is, I'd rather go OLB, S, or CB. This being said, what are you guys' thoughts on picking Zuttah from RU, or keeping DD at LT and draft a LG? or hell, giving Boothe a shot

I really like Sosa and think he has the ability to transition well into the NFL.

All of this talk about Rutgers makes me hope that the Giants decide to take a player here and their from them. It is always cool to see your NFL team draft someone from the hometown college team.

scottyboy
09-28-2007, 02:55 PM
I really like Sosa and think he has the ability to transition well into the NFL.

All of this talk about Rutgers makes me hope that the Giants decide to take a player here and their from them. It is always cool to see your NFL team draft someone from the hometown college team.

i know, i love it. Plus, RU has guys at positions we need. Kicker in Ito(i still dont trust Tynes), OL depth and skill with Sosa, Zuttah and Fladell. Safety in Greene(would be the perfect fit too.) and even maybe Foster for Dline depth(he's versitile)

Turtlepower
10-03-2007, 11:12 AM
i know, i love it. Plus, RU has guys at positions we need. Kicker in Ito(i still dont trust Tynes), OL depth and skill with Sosa, Zuttah and Fladell. Safety in Greene(would be the perfect fit too.) and even maybe Foster for Dline depth(he's versitile)

I could realistically see Ito at least getting a shot next year. Tynes shouldn't miss more than 1 PAT in a season...

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 11:43 AM
Oh I forgot to update my half ass scouting.

Greene, he looks the part, but his lack of speed worries me. I gotta see how he runs at the combine.

That #56 on Rutgers, I like him. He's just a good old fashioned football player. Id find a spot for him somewhere.

I like Henderson. Has speed, good frame, I gotta see more but he'd be a nice addition. Wouldve liked to see him make more big plays though. But he was all over the field. Just wanted to see a gamechanging play out of him.

Sam Baker continues to impress me.

Don't like Clady that much right now. He's too thin. With that frame, Id like to see him pack on weight. He can get overwhelmed by strong bullrushers right now.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 11:47 AM
#56 on Rutgers, Eric Foster, I've said this before and I'll say it again, is a MLB in the NFL. Particularly in a 3-4 defense.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 11:56 AM
#56 on Rutgers, Eric Foster, I've said this before and I'll say it again, is a MLB in the NFL. Particularly in a 3-4 defense.

I can definately see that. I think he has what it takes to make the transition. He's just a good football player. You see "it" with him. I know thats an overused term, but i see it in him.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 12:00 PM
I can definately see that. I think he has what it takes to make the transition. He's just a good football player. You see "it" with him. I know thats an overused term, but i see it in him.

He is certainly atheltic enough. The drop him back often. It might not be the easiest transition, we see it with Kiwi to an extent, but you just can't play on the D-line in the NFL at 6'2" 260.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 12:04 PM
He is certainly atheltic enough. The drop him back often. It might not be the easiest transition, we see it with Kiwi to an extent, but you just can't play on the D-line in the NFL at 6'2" 260.

If he had more speed he couldve been a Cover 2 DE. He probably needs to shed 15 lbs to make the ILB transition. He looks fluid though, I like his chances.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 12:06 PM
If he had more speed he couldve been a Cover 2 DE. He probably needs to shed 15 lbs to make the ILB transition. He looks fluid though, I like his chances.

I think cutting the weight would be easy for him. According to from what I have heard on telecasts, it sounds like Foster had to bulk up to get to where he is at now. They said he was a point guard in high school. I think he can cut the weight.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 12:08 PM
I think cutting the weight would be easy for him. According to from what I have heard on telecasts, it sounds like Foster had to bulk up to get to where he is at now. They said he was a point guard in high school. I think he can cut the weight.

What do you think of Greene? Same concerns? Or am I overreacting?

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 12:12 PM
What do you think of Greene? Same concerns? Or am I overreacting?

Green looks fast enough on the field for me. He has to improve his ball skills a bit in my opinion. His strongest suit is his tackling and involvement to get in the run game. He is quick to the line of scrimmage to help out in the run.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 12:16 PM
Green looks fast enough on the field for me. He has to improve his ball skills a bit in my opinion. His strongest suit is his tackling and involvement to get in the run game. He is quick to the line of scrimmage to help out in the run.

Yeah, I gotta see more. That was the first time I really scouted him. I just want a ballhawk back there. We need a ballhawk in the middle in the worst way.

Is Sean Taylor a FA this year? Theres no way Washington can resign him and keep Landry. But then again, theyve surprised me before.

Number 10
10-03-2007, 01:55 PM
Yeah, I gotta see more. That was the first time I really scouted him. I just want a ballhawk back there. We need a ballhawk in the middle in the worst way.

Is Sean Taylor a FA this year? Theres no way Washington can resign him and keep Landry. But then again, theyve surprised me before.

You would really want Taylor? I feel he is one of the more overrated FS in the league.

A FA FS to keep your eye on is Eugene Wilson from New England.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 02:35 PM
You would really want Taylor? I feel he is one of the more overrated FS in the league.

A FA FS to keep your eye on is Eugene Wilson from New England.

For his career he has been overrated, but this season he has been phenomenal. He lost weight and is playing the way everyone thought he shouldve.

Number 10
10-03-2007, 02:46 PM
For his career he has been overrated, but this season he has been phenomenal. He lost weight and is playing the way everyone thought he shouldve.

Still missing tackles and looking like he is bored out there at times

He wouldn't be worth the cap space.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 02:47 PM
Still missing tackles and looking like he is bored out there at times

He wouldn't be worth the cap space.

Plax on a bum ankle did make him look stupid.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 03:01 PM
I don't know, it depends on how much his marketvalue is. Is there really any FS in this draft you'd prefer over him other than possibly Phillips?

The Skins defense is 13th in ypg, and 8th in pts/game. They also haven't given up the deepball all season. Taylor has to be a factor in all of that.

Number 10
10-03-2007, 03:17 PM
I don't know, it depends on how much his marketvalue is. Is there really any FS in this draft you'd prefer over him other than possibly Phillips?

The Skins defense is 13th in ypg, and 8th in pts/game. They also haven't given up the deepball all season. Taylor has to be a factor in all of that.

I hope the Skins fans don't see this because I don't feel like getting into a debate with them, but they aren't as good as their start led many to think they are.

Taylor always gets lazy as the season wears on, every year. I have watched him take plays off way too often for me to even consider him and trust me, I used to love him. Hard to admit this but I will.....I wanted Taylor outright in the 2004 draft. Yes, over Gallery, Manning, Rivers, and Ben. I was that high on this kid but he, like Peppers, disappears too often and just doesn't play like a player with his natural ability should.

I'm telling, Eugene Wilson is exactly what we need in terms of coverage, intangibles, and salary cap help. I wanted Chris Hope in 2006, he goes to Tennessee and is putting up monster numbers. I wanted Ken Hamlin this year and he has played the best FS the Cowboys have seen in years. That was their best offseason pickup.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 03:51 PM
I hope the Skins fans don't see this because I don't feel like getting into a debate with them, but they aren't as good as their start led many to think they are.

Taylor always gets lazy as the season wears on, every year. I have watched him take plays off way too often for me to even consider him and trust me, I used to love him. Hard to admit this but I will.....I wanted Taylor outright in the 2004 draft. Yes, over Gallery, Manning, Rivers, and Ben. I was that high on this kid but he, like Peppers, disappears too often and just doesn't play like a player with his natural ability should.

I'm telling, Eugene Wilson is exactly what we need in terms of coverage, intangibles, and salary cap help. I wanted Chris Hope in 2006, he goes to Tennessee and is putting up monster numbers. I wanted Ken Hamlin this year and he has played the best FS the Cowboys have seen in years. That was their best offseason pickup.

Eugene Wilson would be a great addition. I wouldn't mind that at all.

Im gonna observe Taylor carefully this season and see if he continues his play. So far, he's been pretty good. The thing is, we need more than just a quality safety, we need a playmaker back there. Thats what we've been missing for awhile now. Having a stud safety to compliment Ross, who can potentially be a stud CB that we desperately need, would be ideal.

Most great secondaries are built around a PB caliber CB and a PB caliber safety. I think we need to not just get a good player at safety, but a great one. Especially with the scheme in place, and how demanding it is of its players in the secondary.

D-Unit
10-04-2007, 04:28 PM
If you guys are looking for a safety, one player that has stood out to me this year is Craig Steltz from LSU. He could provide some support in your secondary with the range he has... and could probably be had late day 1.

scottyboy
10-04-2007, 04:34 PM
If you guys are looking for a safety, one player that has stood out to me this year is Craig Steltz from LSU. He could provide some support in your secondary with the range he has... and could probably be had late day 1.

Courtney Greene is better. I have no facts to back this up, but still Greene is a beast, and amazing

Forenci
10-04-2007, 07:44 PM
Is Steltz a senior this year, or is he a junior just likely to come out? I thought he was still a junior.

I agree though, Steltz is a pretty underrated player at this point. I've watched a couple LSU games this year and the guy has amazing range, he's all over the field. I would take him and move him to FS, because he's got the coverage ability to play the position very effectively in my opinion. The only really down side is the fact he's not a big hitter, but honestly, it doesn't really concern be at the FS spot.

BroadwayJoe10
10-04-2007, 09:27 PM
I saw that you guys were talking about phil loadholt and i havn't seen anyone talk about him at all. I was paying attention to him a lot in the begining of this season, becuase i generally check out the top juco transfers and i remembered his story a year or two ago. He was prepared to transfer to LSU but some of his classes didn't fulfill the requirement to transfer, so he had to go back to JUCO. Now, obviously he is at Oklahoma.

I was trying to look up all the reasons why he was at a JUCO to begin with and the only thing i could think of was that he didn't want to go to a D2 school and none of the big football schools would let him play basketball either. However, i found out that he had plans to go to college at Colorado, but low ACT scores kept the D1 schools away. He was offered a ton of D2 basketball scholarships, but he said he knew his future was football, so he just had to go thru a year of JUCO and show he can get the grades. He ended up on the 3.0 list i beleive two years. Personally, I think thats amazing. Obviously not a brilliant guy, but he knew what he wanted and did exactly what he had to do to get it. Add that with his talent and hard work and then damn you've got urself a franchise tackle. sorry it was so long.

and by the way i love visiting the giants site; you guys have real in depth football conversations and offer a lot of insight into the game, especially defense. It's a nice change.

Turtlepower
10-04-2007, 11:18 PM
Could teams stop giving us Jonathan Stewart in the first... Seriously, I don't want to say that to everyone making a mock.

Damix
10-04-2007, 11:31 PM
I hate RB's in the first, just not worth it

bigbluedefense
10-05-2007, 02:04 PM
Especially with the depth in this RB class, no way we take a RB first. Especially with our defense.

The only offensive position i would take in the 1st is LT. Other than that, I want defense defense and more defense.

A LB, Safety (perhaps 2 of em), and a CB. Oh and a bulky DT.

Number 10
10-05-2007, 02:43 PM
Stewart is a decent college RB, that's all. There are so many RBs I would take over him.

bigbluedefense
10-05-2007, 02:53 PM
If we draft 18 to 20ish in this draft, I think the clearcut 1st choice right now would be Keith Rivers.

I don't see a CB, Safety, DT or LT that would fall to us in that spot right now that would warrant being taken over Rivers.

I know theres a good chance Rivers is also gone before that, but considering the needs of teams around us, theres gonna be a lot of teams going after LTs, and qbs early. That could really effect the board.

Number 10
10-05-2007, 03:02 PM
If we draft 18 to 20ish in this draft, I think the clearcut 1st choice right now would be Keith Rivers.

I don't see a CB, Safety, DT or LT that would fall to us in that spot right now that would warrant being taken over Rivers.

I know theres a good chance Rivers is also gone before that, but considering the needs of teams around us, theres gonna be a lot of teams going after LTs, and qbs early. That could really effect the board.

It's too hard to project one player right now. But position wise, it will most likely be OLB, FS, CB. Defense, Defense, Defense.

bigbluedefense
10-05-2007, 03:21 PM
It's too hard to project one player right now. But position wise, it will most likely be OLB, FS, CB. Defense, Defense, Defense.

I think right now, I rather go CB before FS, only because I have a feeling that the CB talent in round 2 would be a higher grade than the FS talent in round 2. At that point, considering both are equal needs, I rather get the better graded talent.

Number 10
10-05-2007, 03:31 PM
I think right now, I rather go CB before FS, only because I have a feeling that the CB talent in round 2 would be a higher grade than the FS talent in round 2. At that point, considering both are equal needs, I rather get the better graded talent.

Ideally we could get a FS in FA...and we will have the money to compete for the top one out there. There just aren't many safeties I would feel comfortable with in this draft...unlike last year. But hey, maybe Michael Johnson gets a shot sometime this year and impresses.

bigbluedefense
10-05-2007, 03:34 PM
Ideally we could get a FS in FA...and we will have the money to compete for the top one out there. There just aren't many safeties I would feel comfortable with in this draft...unlike last year. But hey, maybe Michael Johnson gets a shot sometime this year and impresses.

Another big decision for this team in the offseason is Gibril Wilson. Will his value warrant us resigning him?

I rather move in a different direction. Like you said, go with the Pats FS, and perhaps see what Michael Johnson can do. Or even go after Hamlin if Dallas lets him go.

I agree, I don't like this safety class too much.

Number 10
10-05-2007, 03:50 PM
Another big decision for this team in the offseason is Gibril Wilson. Will his value warrant us resigning him?

I rather move in a different direction. Like you said, go with the Pats FS, and perhaps see what Michael Johnson can do. Or even go after Hamlin if Dallas lets him go.

I agree, I don't like this safety class too much.

Yeah Girbril is going to be a tough decision, we'll see what the contract demands are.

NYGibril28
10-05-2007, 03:59 PM
What do the rest of you think of Gibril's performance this year?

I think he's playing great, and looks much improved in coverage. Is this true, or is my homerism getting in the way when watching my favorite player?

Number 10
10-05-2007, 04:05 PM
What do the rest of you think of Gibril's performance this year?

I think he's playing great, and looks much improved in coverage. Is this true, or is my homerism getting in the way when watching my favorite player?

Playing well, but he was awful in the Green Bay game. Still has lapses in concentration it seems and I don't see too muc upside in coverage ability, but I still think he'd be Pro-Bowl Caliber if he had a stud FS playing next to him. I mean, consider who he played next to....Shaun Williams, Brent Alexander, James Butler, Jason Bell, Will Demps...Not one of those guys have a starting job other than Butler right now and that's only because Butler is a starter by default.

Jughead10
10-05-2007, 04:07 PM
This draft has a ton of CBs, especially considering potential juniors. There are a bunch of guys I think that project to very good #2 CBs in this league that can probably be had in round 2 or 3.

bigbluedefense
10-05-2007, 04:42 PM
What do the rest of you think of Gibril's performance this year?

I think he's playing great, and looks much improved in coverage. Is this true, or is my homerism getting in the way when watching my favorite player?

This is my problem with Gibril.

He doesn't have the speed/range to be a dominant FS in this style of defense, and as a SS, he doesn't possess the ability to cover the TE, which is what we need out of our SS with Kiwi at SAM rushbacker.

So why keep him? He doesn't have a place on our team. We need a SS who can cover the TE, and we need a FS who has great range who can defend the deepball. Gibril is neither of those guys. So unless he shows me alot this season, I think my stance on him remains the same.

He's a solid player, but I think he's somewhat overrated. He's our Roy Williams. And if you frequent the Cowboys board, you'd see how critical I am of Roy Williams. Gibril is the same thing. He's a poor man's Roy Williams. I don't want to have to accomodate the defense around a Safety who can't cover. I rather dump the player and get a safety who can cover. Thats his job, thats what he gets paid to do.

Forenci
10-06-2007, 04:24 PM
Hmm, strange. We seem to see things differently BBD. I think Gibril has had the occasional lapses in coverage, but who hasn't this season? Overall, I like his improvement. Of course, I think it's almost impossible to judge safety play in general because with a TV angle you just can't evaluate a safeties play except for when they show highlights, which can be misleading at times.

It's one of the reasons I don't like Hamlin. I think he's overrated right now, and I personally wouldn't spend big dollars to bring him in. Eugene Wilson is the only FS that really interests me at the moment as far as free agency goes.

I think if we could get our hands on Steltz, the SS from LSU in the second or third round we'd get a steal. The guy is a beast in coverage and has the range and speed to play the FS spot.

Number 10
10-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Regarding FS play-

Watching Oklahoma (again).....I came away with the thought that I could certainly see Reggie Smith (#3-CB) could play FS. I did some reading across the web and it appears that some analysts are pushing him more as a FS than CB. and BBD.....he moves and looks very similar to your boy Ed Reed out there in terms of anticipation and catch up speed. Just keep an eye on him.

Forenci
10-06-2007, 10:48 PM
Steltz hasn't looked great in coverage. Well I suppose he has, but he did but terribly (as the whole team did really) on that fake WR screen where he left a guy wide open for a TD.

The guy can cover AND he has something like 14 tackles tonight? It's crazy.

To be honest, I'd rather wait to get FS in the first round next year if we could. I don't really like many of the the safeties this year. However, next year, if he comes out, I'd love to have Taylor Mays The guy seems to be amazing in coverage, has great size and speed, and plays with superb range. I really love him. Plus he's started as a true freshman, and now as a sophmore.

The only real question would be, would we need to trade up to get him? Impossible to tell I suppose.

skiinginNJ
10-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Regarding FS play-

Watching Oklahoma (again).....I came away with the thought that I could certainly see Reggie Smith (#3-CB) could play FS. I did some reading across the web and it appears that some analysts are pushing him more as a FS than CB. and BBD.....he moves and looks very similar to your boy Ed Reed out there in terms of anticipation and catch up speed. Just keep an eye on him.

reggie smith looked too good at corner (for me) to be put at FS

Jughead10
10-08-2007, 07:29 AM
Regarding FS play-

Watching Oklahoma (again).....I came away with the thought that I could certainly see Reggie Smith (#3-CB) could play FS. I did some reading across the web and it appears that some analysts are pushing him more as a FS than CB. and BBD.....he moves and looks very similar to your boy Ed Reed out there in terms of anticipation and catch up speed. Just keep an eye on him.

There is no doubt Smith could play safety. As far as Ed Reed comparisons, he has that anticipation and knows how to move on a ball or WR, but I don't think he has the pure speed that Reed does.

NYGibril28
10-08-2007, 07:29 AM
My Giants 2007 Mock (picking in the 16-22 range)

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/30/309825.jpg
1. Reggie Smith, CB, Oklahoma

Ross has been great so far, but McQuarters and Madison are both up there age. Webster isn't ever going to be more than a nickel, and although at times he looks promising at times, neither will Dockery. Aslo has the skillset to play safety.

http://www.techsideline.com/columns/2005/adibi07_small.jpg
2. Xavier Adibi, LB, Virginia Tech

Kawika Mitchell was a decent signing, but he's struggled somewhat, and I don't expect Kiwi to stay at OLB very long. Adibi has good game speed and tackling ability. He might be able to contribute early.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/vand/graphics/auto/williams372475inside1.jpg
3. Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt

David Diehl has performed well above expectations at LT, but he still is stronger at Guard. Williams provides quality insurance with the chance to start.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/30/300906.jpg
4. Chris Horton, S, UCLA

I like Gibril, and Michael Johnson too, but insurance doesn't hurt. Horton can play. I've seen a few UCLA games and I like what I see out of him.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/28/283379.jpg
5. Matt Flynn, QB, LSU

Jared Lorenzen is not much of a backup, as much as I love him. Flynn has a good arm and good mobility. If something were to happen to Eli he could prove to be a steal here. I like his potential.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/hou/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/1026439.jpeg
6. Donnie Avery, WR, Houston

We need a kick returner. Avery has sub 4.4 speed. I don't think he'll ever be much in the passing game but he is a great threat to run one back, something we don't have right now in Droughns and McQuarters. Bradshaw has that ability, but has trouble holding on to the ball.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2007, 11:39 AM
Im gonna keep an eye on all these guys mentioned.

Turtlepower
10-08-2007, 11:56 AM
I don't like Matt Flynn and I feel we could get a just as good back-up undrafted this year. In the 5th, I would like to see us either take a DT or possibly a RB/FB like Jacob Hester.

Jughead10
10-08-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't like Matt Flynn and I feel we could get a just as good back-up undrafted this year. In the 5th, I would like to see us either take a DT or possibly a RB/FB like Jacob Hester.

I too would love Jacob Hester. Although I think when all is said and done he is a first day pick. Hedgecock has been ok but there is certainly room to improve their.

Giantsfan1080
10-08-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm also a big fan of Hester. Would be nice to see him in Giants blue.

Turtlepower
10-08-2007, 12:02 PM
I'm also a big fan of Hester. Would be nice to see him in Giants blue.

If he falls to day 2 (which I'm pretty sure he will), he would be a nice 4th round selection.

BaLLiN
10-08-2007, 12:34 PM
What about Marcus Griffin in the 3rd, if he is anything close to what his brother is its worth it.

scottyboy
10-09-2007, 10:24 AM
I've been thinking, is there any later round(3-5) LB we could grab at could possibly start for us? Or can we rely on Gerris? I dont see Mitchell as a long term guy for us at OLB. I see our future D going something like
Osi, Cofield, Robbins/Alford(hopefully a pick in a few years), Tuck
Kiwi, Pierce, and either a pick or Gerris(maybe Briggs :))
Ross, Gibril, Johnson?, Dockery?

with this in mind, what if Cason falls to us with our pick, and Rivers and Connor(the only 2 1st round OLB IMO) are gone. I say we snag Cason, and of course I'd love Greene n the 2nd, to give us a very scary young secondary.
I think Kiwi can and will be a very good LB for us for years to come. With Osi and Tuck, our pass rush wont miss a beat with Strahan retiring. Not this year, but in a year or 2, when LB,CB and S problems are figured out, we need a BIG DT up front. I'd love a guy in an Alan Branch or Frank Okam mold

bigbluedefense
10-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Theres no question we need bigger DTs up front. The small quick DTs Spags likes isn't necessary for us because we move Tuck to UT in the nickel. And in the long term, we'll move Kiwi to LE in that nickel package.

So we need big runstuffing DTs for 1st and 2nd down. I don't think we need to spend an early pick on one. Considering theyd be 2 down players, we can spend a day 2 pick on a big bulky DT. Some names will pop up as the season moves forward. Its too early to name names right now.

Damix
10-09-2007, 10:31 AM
Norman Hand!

bigbluedefense
10-09-2007, 10:37 AM
Norman Hand!

Albert Haynesworth?

He fits the bill perfectly.

Forenci
10-09-2007, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing someone like Frank Okam if he fell into our lap in the second round some how. I don't think it'd be likely, but you never know.

I'm still pulling for Keith Rivers as our first rounder. I'd rather wait until next year and try to get Taylor Mays as our potential FS.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-09-2007, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing someone like Frank Okam if he fell into our lap in the second round some how. I don't think it'd be likely, but you never know.

I'm still pulling for Keith Rivers as our first rounder. I'd rather wait until next year and try to get Taylor Mays as our potential FS.

I think there's a good chance we sign Briggs, supposedly he wanted to join AP here last offseason but we couldn't swing the trade, plus he'd be a perfect fit if we stick with a 4-3.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-09-2007, 08:19 PM
I think there's a good chance we sign Briggs, supposedly he wanted to join AP here last offseason but we couldn't swing the trade, plus he'd be a perfect fit if we stick with a 4-3.


He'd be a perfect fit in a cover 2 system, but I don't know if I would pay him what he wants to be in our system. I'd rather draft a LB that would fit, and this way Spags can get what he needs himself via the draft.

skiinginNJ
10-15-2007, 09:36 PM
after watching jacobs get injured again, i think we need a RB sometime

it could be a pretty deep class depending on which JR's declare, and i think we need to go with one on the first day

NYGibril28
10-16-2007, 08:22 AM
James Davis is someone I want. If we can get him in Round 3 or later. First two picks should be defense.

moc182
10-16-2007, 08:52 AM
James Davis is someone I want. If we can get him in Round 3 or later. First two picks should be defense.

Not gonna happen, he might not even be there for our first pick.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 11:41 AM
He'd be a perfect fit in a cover 2 system, but I don't know if I would pay him what he wants to be in our system. I'd rather draft a LB that would fit, and this way Spags can get what he needs himself via the draft.

Maybe i'm too high on him but two years ago I spent a lot of time in Chicago and made it a point to go to a lot of bears games, because people wouldn't shut up about soldier field, and I was constantly impressed with how well briggs and urlacher moved around in coverage and through traffic and I think he could really be great weapon for spags, as Briggs could be asked to cover witten and succeed while also being good against the run and being disruptive when we do blitz him.

He'd give us so much more freedom in the draft.

Number 10
10-16-2007, 11:45 AM
It's gonna be about the price tag with Briggs...because he isn't a player where you say...."I don't care how much he wants, we have to sign him no matter what".

If he can be had for, say, the average of the top 4 LBs in football then I would likely give it a go. But if he is demanding to be the top paid LB in the league, I'd pass.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 11:47 AM
I'd pay him the salary of a top linebacker in the NFL, and I think that's around what his demands will be

bigbluedefense
10-16-2007, 12:06 PM
Well, LT looks like its becoming less and less of a need the way Diehl is playing, so that opens up the possibility of a 1st round LB.

I think we should pass on the FA market in terms of Briggs. I rather allocate that money into the secondary.

This is a good LB class too. Keith Rivers ftw.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 12:17 PM
Well, LT looks like its becoming less and less of a need the way Diehl is playing, so that opens up the possibility of a 1st round LB.

I think we should pass on the FA market in terms of Briggs. I rather allocate that money into the secondary.

This is a good LB class too. Keith Rivers ftw.

Is there a db you'd pay top dollar in fa this year? I don't, I see a lot guys who could he brought in and become starters but not impact starters. So I think db should be handled in the draft. And this draft is deep at corner if all the guys with first day grades come out. So to me the only defensive player I could see us really wanting would be Eugene Wilson. Which is why in my ideal world we grab Briggs and Wilson in fa and get someone like justin king in the first and have a lot of freedom in the second to grab a lineman, another back, a dt or a safety to take the ss spot from gibril.

bigbluedefense
10-16-2007, 12:33 PM
Is there a db you'd pay top dollar in fa this year? I don't, I see a lot guys who could he brought in and become starters but not impact starters. So I think db should be handled in the draft. And this draft is deep at corner if all the guys with first day grades come out. So to me the only defensive player I could see us really wanting would be Eugene Wilson. Which is why in my ideal world we grab Briggs and Wilson in fa and get someone like justin king in the first and have a lot of freedom in the second to grab a lineman, another back, a dt or a safety to take the ss spot from gibril.

Id stay away from FA CBs. Like you said, get em in the draft.

Theres 2 DB FAs I have my eyes on. Eugene Wilson as #10 said, and Sean Taylor.

I know ST has gotten a lot of heat for his irratic play, but you watch him this year, he's been amazing. If he can keep that up, imagine having him on our team? We need a playmaking Safety in the worst way. ST would fit the bill perfectly.

And we take a great player away from a division rival. Double the fun.

Number 10
10-16-2007, 12:38 PM
Id stay away from FA CBs. Like you said, get em in the draft.

Theres 2 DB FAs I have my eyes on. Eugene Wilson as #10 said, and Sean Taylor.

I know ST has gotten a lot of heat for his irratic play, but you watch him this year, he's been amazing. If he can keep that up, imagine having him on our team? We need a playmaking Safety in the worst way. ST would fit the bill perfectly.

And we take a great player away from a division rival. Double the fun.

I watched the Skins-Pack game and Taylor did look very good. Just to have another set of eyes on him in here...I'll make sure I Tivo them every week.

Will be interesting to see how Washington handles him financially

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 02:24 PM
If sean Taylor becomes an fa he's number one but I doubt Washington let's him go, they'll probably franchise him if they have to.

skiinginNJ
10-16-2007, 05:10 PM
i dont even know if we need to spend a 1st rounder on a LB, though right now its our only glaring need

LB
CB
FS
RB
Line Depth (both sides)

scottyboy
10-16-2007, 05:53 PM
i dont even know if we need to spend a 1st rounder on a LB, though right now its our only glaring need

LB
CB
FS
RB
Line Depth (both sides)

I'd put line line depth over RB right now. We have a 3 headed monster, (possibly 4 with Bradshaw?) and we have dire need for depth, mainly at OL. a late rounder would suffice for DE depth, we're pretty deep at DT come to think of it, but could use more talent.

Now BBD, i know our DT's are small and undersized, but they make some plays other bigger DT's wouldnt make. they've got some quickness on the line, and Big Barry has shown flashes of brilliance, but is inconsistant, which i expect from a 2nd year 4th rounder

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 06:30 PM
Alphonso Smith, CB W Forest (redshirt junior) 4 ints 151 yds 37.8 avg 100 long 3 TDs
http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/smith_alphonso00.html
DeJuan Tribble, BC (senior) 4ints 42 yds 10.5 avg. 29 long
http://bceagles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/tribble_dejuan00.html
Mid round prospects?

moc182
10-16-2007, 06:34 PM
Alphonso Smith, CB W Forest (redshirt junior) 4 ints 151 yds 37.8 avg 100 long 3 TDs
http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/smith_alphonso00.html
DeJuan Tribble, BC (senior) 4ints 42 yds 10.5 avg. 29 long
http://bceagles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/tribble_dejuan00.html
Mid round prospects?

I absolutely love Alphonso Smith, he's probably my favorite player in the country. Great speed, great ball skills, good in run support. His height might prevent him from being a first rounder but aside from that he's got everything. If he were available from the second on I'd certainly consider it. Tribbles a bit more of a national name due to the higher pick numbers and playing for a top 5 team, but as a prospect I like Smith more.

Jughead10
10-16-2007, 06:35 PM
Tribble is a second round pick. I want the Giants to grab him. Another BC guy. Can hopefully eventually start opposite Ross.

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 06:39 PM
If we dont use alponso smith immediately at corner, maybe we could use him at return, he had 4 ints and 3 tds. And I think Tribble would be a good pick especially because he is great against the run.

Jughead10
10-16-2007, 06:40 PM
If we dont use alponso smith immediately at corner, maybe we could use him at return, he had 4 ints and 3 tds. And I think Tribble would be a good pick especially because he is great against the run.

I believe he does do returns for BC as well.

scottyboy
10-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Rivers in the 1st, Tribble in the 2nd, and possibly Courtney Greene in the 3rd.... wet dream of a draft there lol too bad it'd never happen

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 06:43 PM
my corner board is: Malcolm Jenkins, Aqib Talib, Dejuan Tribble, Antoine Cason, Mike Jenkins, and Alponso Smith. i think all but Cason and mike jenkins are in the return game.

scottyboy
10-16-2007, 06:44 PM
I love Cason. I feel he's the best out of this class

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 06:45 PM
I think we should go Rivers, Talib, Greene or Marcus Griffin, runningback/OT, Alphonso smith, DL, FB

scottyboy
10-16-2007, 06:47 PM
i think hedgecock has done great for us. He came in here, and plays really hard. He just slams through the hole, and opens it up for a nice BJ run.

he also has soft hands, but that comment isnt nearly as sexual as that last sentence

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 06:53 PM
as I thought sean Taylor is not a free agent, he signed a 7 year contact in 2004. Thus making Briggs the only fa would spend good money on.

skiinginNJ
10-16-2007, 06:54 PM
I'd put line line depth over RB right now. We have a 3 headed monster, (possibly 4 with Bradshaw?) and we have dire need for depth, mainly at OL. a late rounder would suffice for DE depth, we're pretty deep at DT come to think of it, but could use more talent.

Now BBD, i know our DT's are small and undersized, but they make some plays other bigger DT's wouldnt make. they've got some quickness on the line, and Big Barry has shown flashes of brilliance, but is inconsistant, which i expect from a 2nd year 4th rounder


that 3(4) headed monster only has 1 monster in it. there is a big, noticible difference between jacobs and the rest of them. the offense just isnt the same


im talking about a quality, second back that we dont lose a beat with. someone like davis or felix jones or someone like that


our D-line and O-line are fine, starter wise, and some depth would be nice. but i think we need a RB much more than we really want to think.

scottyboy
10-16-2007, 06:56 PM
that 3(4) headed monster only has 1 monster in it. there is a big, noticible difference between jacobs and the rest of them. the offense just isnt the same


im talking about a quality, second back that we dont lose a beat with. someone like davis or felix jones or someone like that


our D-line and O-line are fine, starter wise, and some depth would be nice. but i think we need a RB much more than we really want to think.

i dont think we lost a beat at all while Ward was out. i dont see us needing to waste a pick on RB while we have many other holes and depth issues.

skiinginNJ
10-16-2007, 07:04 PM
i dont think we lost a beat at all while Ward was out. i dont see us needing to waste a pick on RB while we have many other holes and depth issues.


i think we did, the offense wasnt very good when jacobs wasnt there and i think the reason we have won so many games without him is because of the Defense. look at last night for example, jacobs was the only one having success until the end of the game when droughns got so mop up yards. ward was terrible. the only reason he had respectable games as our starter was becuase of our O-Line


we dont have that many holes . CB and S are the only glaring ones. we could use a LB, but i think wilkinson will be very good in this system.


sure we can use some O-line depth (our d-line is ok, unless we get a shot at a ellis like player) but i think the lack of a quality RB, especially if jacobs continues to hurt, will hurt our offense in the long run

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-16-2007, 07:06 PM
What about justin king? Or is he not expected to come out?

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 07:07 PM
that 3(4) headed monster only has 1 monster in it. there is a big, noticible difference between jacobs and the rest of them. the offense just isnt the same


im talking about a quality, second back that we dont lose a beat with. someone like davis or felix jones or someone like that


our D-line and O-line are fine, starter wise, and some depth would be nice. but i think we need a RB much more than we really want to think.
what about justin forsett, or if we want to spend an earlier pick steve slaton?

BaLLiN
10-16-2007, 07:10 PM
What about justin king? Or is he not expected to come out? ranked 3rd of juniors on nfl countdown corners, if he does, maybe we should look at him, but he almost got suspended for a brawl on campus before the season

skiinginNJ
10-16-2007, 09:29 PM
what about justin forsett, or if we want to spend an earlier pick steve slaton?


i like the forsett idea more than the slaton idea. slaton is likely a 1st round pick and i dont want a RB that early. if he fell to the mid 2nd-sure. theres only 1 RB i would spend a 1st rounder on, and he wont be available


i just think if most fo the top jr's declare, someone good should be available in the 2nd round

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-17-2007, 09:38 AM
ranked 3rd of juniors on nfl countdown corners, if he does, maybe we should look at him, but he almost got suspended for a brawl on campus before the season
But he's arguably the nation's top cover corner. I think that that's exactly what we need opposite ross, who's more physical and more of a ball hawk.

scottyboy
10-17-2007, 01:56 PM
a possible secondary of Greene, Wilson, Ross and Cason gives me a boner. It's very likely too. here's my dream...

Sign Briggs, start him with pierce and kiwi. draft Cason round 1, and Courtney Greene round2= championship

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-17-2007, 04:00 PM
a possible secondary of Greene, Wilson, Ross and Cason gives me a boner. It's very likely too. here's my dream...

Sign Briggs, start him with pierce and kiwi. draft Cason round 1, and Courtney Greene round2= championship

I'm not very big on cason, I'd prefer someone with better make up speed and quickness who could become an elite cover guy, not necessarily a playmaker.

scottyboy
10-17-2007, 04:01 PM
I'm not very big on cason, I'd prefer someone with better make up speed and quickness who could become an elite cover guy, not necessarily a playmaker.

eh, cason is my favorite CB in this draft. but it's fine to have a different opinion. Hey I'll admit, last year i had Chris Houston behind Revis as my #2 CB!!

Number 10
10-17-2007, 05:29 PM
I'm not very big on cason, I'd prefer someone with better make up speed and quickness who could become an elite cover guy, not necessarily a playmaker.

When the rumors were flying around last year that Cason was going to leave early, I had him ranked above any CB in this draft. He is going to be a fine player in the NFL and actually reminds me of Ross. A Cason/Ross duo would be lethal if we got him.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-18-2007, 08:48 AM
When the rumors were flying around last year that Cason was going to leave early, I had him ranked above any CB in this draft. He is going to be a fine player in the NFL and actually reminds me of Ross. A Cason/Ross duo would be lethal if we got him.

Cason reminds me Ross as well, which is why I'd perfer a foil opposite him. Some one who could stay with fastest and quickest receivers and just eliminate a teams top deep threat, which would let Ross play more agressively
on his man and create turn overs.

BaLLiN
10-18-2007, 06:53 PM
Cason reminds me Ross as well, which is why I'd perfer a foil opposite him. Some one who could stay with fastest and quickest receivers and just eliminate a teams top deep threat, which would let Ross play more agressively
on his man and create turn overs.

Someone similar to Madison, but has some height would be nice, and mike jenkins, malcolm jenkins, and justin king would do great, but I really like alphonso smith, he's unbelievably quick, but would probably be a developing player and not be effective until his 3rd or 4th year.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2007, 08:09 PM
We don't need him, but Underwood from RU is a stud. Id love Ray Rice to compliment Jacobs too. Ward always has injury issues. And Brooks, he has fumbling issues.

Considering that Jacobs doesn't seem like he can be a 20 carry back for his career, Id love to compliment him with Rice. Or Mike Hart. The problem is, that would take a round 2 commitment, and Im not willing to commit that kind of investment in a RB.

As for CBs from that game, I actually kinda liked USF's CBs.

As for FA, my #1 priority in FA would be to get Albert Haynesworth. He's just what the doctor ordered on the dline. My main issue is our beef in the middle against the run on 1st and 2nd down. Haynesworth gives us a reliable anchor.

He also gives our versatile front the potential of running a hybrid in the future.

In a dream world, we sign Haynesworth and Sean Taylor in FA, and draft the best available WILL and CB in the draft in rounds 1 and 2.

scottyboy
10-19-2007, 08:31 PM
We don't need him, but Underwood from RU is a stud. Id love Ray Rice to compliment Jacobs too. Ward always has injury issues. And Brooks, he has fumbling issues.

Considering that Jacobs doesn't seem like he can be a 20 carry back for his career, Id love to compliment him with Rice. Or Mike Hart. The problem is, that would take a round 2 commitment, and Im not willing to commit that kind of investment in a RB.

As for CBs from that game, I actually kinda liked USF's CBs.

As for FA, my #1 priority in FA would be to get Albert Haynesworth. He's just what the doctor ordered on the dline. My main issue is our beef in the middle against the run on 1st and 2nd down. Haynesworth gives us a reliable anchor.

He also gives our versatile front the potential of running a hybrid in the future.

In a dream world, we sign Haynesworth and Sean Taylor in FA, and draft the best available WILL and CB in the draft in rounds 1 and 2.

Well, Underwood is only a junior, idk if he'd come out. If he didnt, next year we could use him. How many years does amani have left in him(god bless him) Move smith up to 2, and get underwood at 3, to fight it out with Nori.

And who the fudge is Brooks?? (im betting you mean Bradshaw :D)

Turtlepower
10-20-2007, 05:29 PM
Anyone else agree with me that unless Rivers is on the board, we don't take a OLB in the 1st? I always feel you could get a quality OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round, so unless you believe he is the #1 or #2 prospect, I say don't draft OLB.

BaLLiN
10-21-2007, 10:54 AM
We don't need him, but Underwood from RU is a stud. Id love Ray Rice to compliment Jacobs too. Ward always has injury issues. And Brooks, he has fumbling issues.

Considering that Jacobs doesn't seem like he can be a 20 carry back for his career, Id love to compliment him with Rice. Or Mike Hart. The problem is, that would take a round 2 commitment, and Im not willing to commit that kind of investment in a RB.

As for CBs from that game, I actually kinda liked USF's CBs.

As for FA, my #1 priority in FA would be to get Albert Haynesworth. He's just what the doctor ordered on the dline. My main issue is our beef in the middle against the run on 1st and 2nd down. Haynesworth gives us a reliable anchor.

He also gives our versatile front the potential of running a hybrid in the future.

In a dream world, we sign Haynesworth and Sean Taylor in FA, and draft the best available WILL and CB in the draft in rounds 1 and 2.

Didn't taylor sign an extension?

skiinginNJ
10-21-2007, 11:39 PM
Anyone else agree with me that unless Rivers is on the board, we don't take a OLB in the 1st? I always feel you could get a quality OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round, so unless you believe he is the #1 or #2 prospect, I say don't draft OLB.

i def agree, though i also think that i would take connor in the 1st. i think rivers will be gone before we pick


it will also be interesting to see how many Jr's declare, as cushing (who probly wont declare) and henderson might be the most talented LB'ers in the class

bigbluedefense
10-23-2007, 12:47 PM
Didn't taylor sign an extension?

i have no clue anymore. i couldve swore he was a FA, but i don't know anymore.

bigbluedefense
10-23-2007, 12:50 PM
Anyone else agree with me that unless Rivers is on the board, we don't take a OLB in the 1st? I always feel you could get a quality OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round, so unless you believe he is the #1 or #2 prospect, I say don't draft OLB.

we don't know who's coming out yet. I like the LBs in the 2nd round in this draft. But it also depends where we're drafting.

The 3 glaring needs to me right now are Safety, CB and WILL.

Theres no safety worth taking in round 1 at all, maybe not even round 2. So our round 1 selection may very well come down to best available WILL vs best available CB.

Right now Im thinking CB, because chances are the type of WILL we would want won't be available to us in the 1st.

I really want to address DT and Safety in FA so we won't have to worry about that coming into next season. Haynesworth and Wilson sound great.

Number 10
10-23-2007, 02:22 PM
we don't know who's coming out yet. I like the LBs in the 2nd round in this draft. But it also depends where we're drafting.

The 3 glaring needs to me right now are Safety, CB and WILL.

Theres no safety worth taking in round 1 at all, maybe not even round 2. So our round 1 selection may very well come down to best available WILL vs best available CB.

Right now Im thinking CB, because chances are the type of WILL we would want won't be available to us in the 1st.

I really want to address DT and Safety in FA so we won't have to worry about that coming into next season. Haynesworth and Wilson sound great.

I don't see us getting both Haynesworth and Wilson....too much cash there. The way Haynesworth is playing right now, he might end upo being paid more money than any defensive lineman in football, if not top 5. I'd love a big, mean DT but I'd lean the other way and try to nab someone in the draft.

I read that Taylor did indeed sign a lengthy extension recently for Washington.

bigbluedefense
10-23-2007, 02:30 PM
I don't see us getting both Haynesworth and Wilson....too much cash there. The way Haynesworth is playing right now, he might end upo being paid more money than any defensive lineman in football, if not top 5. I'd love a big, mean DT but I'd lean the other way and try to nab someone in the draft.

I read that Taylor did indeed sign a lengthy extension recently for Washington.

Well, plan B is then getting a big bulky runclogging NT in the draft, preferably during round 3 or day 2.

Maybe Okam can fall to round 3 like Watson did to round 4. As a round 3 player, I wouldn't mind using him as a 2 down runclogger. Thats all we really need.

I guess its Eugene Wilson ftw then. Im still torn whether we should resign Gibril. Remember, Hamlin just signed a 1 year deal in Dallas. If they let him go, I wouldn't mind him at SS (not FS like Dallas is doing with him) opposed to resigning Gibril and moving him to SS.

scottyboy
10-23-2007, 03:30 PM
Well, plan B is then getting a big bulky runclogging NT in the draft, preferably during round 3 or day 2.

Maybe Okam can fall to round 3 like Watson did to round 4. As a round 3 player, I wouldn't mind using him as a 2 down runclogger. Thats all we really need.

I guess its Eugene Wilson ftw then. Im still torn whether we should resign Gibril. Remember, Hamlin just signed a 1 year deal in Dallas. If they let him go, I wouldn't mind him at SS (not FS like Dallas is doing with him) opposed to resigning Gibril and moving him to SS.

i'd be perfectly ok with that safety allignment. Gibril is a SS, his biggest weakness is covering the TE though. which is why we need an elite cover Will to line up over the TE and cover him.

skiinginNJ
10-23-2007, 03:37 PM
we don't know who's coming out yet. I like the LBs in the 2nd round in this draft. But it also depends where we're drafting.

The 3 glaring needs to me right now are Safety, CB and WILL.

Theres no safety worth taking in round 1 at all, maybe not even round 2. So our round 1 selection may very well come down to best available WILL vs best available CB.

Right now Im thinking CB, because chances are the type of WILL we would want won't be available to us in the 1st.

I really want to address DT and Safety in FA so we won't have to worry about that coming into next season. Haynesworth and Wilson sound great.


depending on which cb's and lb's declare should tell us where we should go

there are a lot of talent at those 2 positions.


id love either henderson or justin king. those guys are at the top of my realistic list right now based on where we would pick and who fits in thier right now

BaLLiN
10-23-2007, 09:06 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but, if kenny phillips is there in the first would we take him? Im not sure if he's a SS or FS

moc182
10-23-2007, 09:11 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but, if kenny phillips is there in the first would we take him? Im not sure if he's a SS or FS

Unless something totally unforseen happens to his stock, yes. He's capable of playing both but I like him more at free safety, and that's likely where he'd play.

Number 10
10-23-2007, 09:24 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but, if kenny phillips is there in the first would we take him? Im not sure if he's a SS or FS

Still haven't been overly impressed with him this year.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-24-2007, 12:32 AM
i'd be perfectly ok with that safety allignment. Gibril is a SS, his biggest weakness is covering the TE though. which is why we need an elite cover Will to line up over the TE and cover him.

An elite cover will you say? Well I've heard of this fella, names lance Briggs, I've seen him outplay brian urlacher, and I'm told he ain't to bad.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-24-2007, 12:34 AM
BTW I'm jumping on the justin king band wagon. If Taylor doesn't come out the king is #2 on my list after see ellis.

moc182
10-24-2007, 12:38 AM
Weird time to jump on the King bandwagon after James Hardy slapped him around for 3 hours on Saturday.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-24-2007, 08:27 AM
Weird time to jump on the King bandwagon after James Hardy slapped him around for 3 hours on Saturday.

That didn't surprise me, king's not exactly Ross when it comes to playing the ball against big wide receivers and Hardy is a gigantic receiver. Plus I think that game will bring his stock down to the late first, now making him a viable choice for us, whereas if he was shutdown all year and then put up the combine numbers he's expected to he would've been a top 20 lock. Granted i didn't see whole game, was working and had my buddy's watching the games in the background, so maybe he was completely embarassed, but i still would love for us to grab him, seems like the perfect foil for ross.

skiinginNJ
10-24-2007, 06:18 PM
with hardy's size and athleticsm, i think he could make any CB look bad


king has supposedly also been dealing with a shoulder issue.


i like king, probably the best man-man CB in the draft. would likely be a prefect fit for our D

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:13 PM
I'd love to compliment Ross with a CB who has 4.3 speed. That way we can play the matchups. As much as I love Ross, I question whether he can keep up with burners.

If we get a CB with 4.3 speed, then we can have a Lito/Brown type of duo, where one week one will cover the best WR on the other team and vice versa, depending on the matchup.

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:15 PM
The rumors are running wild that Vilma is most likely gone at the end of this season. There seems to already be a rift between him and Mangini.

What would you give up for him?

Me honestly, Id be willing to give up our 1st round pick for him. Think about it. Is there any LB in this draft better than Vilma? No. If you look at it from a best player available perspective, he'll be better than any CB or LB or safety available for us at our pick. And he's young. He's a leader, a great player, high character, proven, smart, team guy etc. He'd be great in Giant blue.

If Im Reese, Id definately try to make a trade. Im sure Vilma would love it too, since he gets to stay in NY.

skiinginNJ
10-24-2007, 08:17 PM
I'd love to compliment Ross with a CB who has 4.3 speed. That way we can play the matchups. As much as I love Ross, I question whether he can keep up with burners.

If we get a CB with 4.3 speed, then we can have a Lito/Brown type of duo, where one week one will cover the best WR on the other team and vice versa, depending on the matchup.

thats what king is. he has tons of speed, quickness, and ahtleticsm. he isnt very big. but he is agressive


another guy who i like who is getting some hype now is dre moore. he is big and athletic, can rush the passer and take up blockers, and can fit into multiple schemes

scottyboy
10-24-2007, 08:19 PM
The rumors are running wild that Vilma is most likely gone at the end of this season. There seems to already be a rift between him and Mangini.

What would you give up for him?

Me honestly, Id be willing to give up our 1st round pick for him. Think about it. Is there any LB in this draft better than Vilma? No. If you look at it from a best player available perspective, he'll be better than any CB or LB or safety available for us at our pick. And he's young. He's a leader, a great player, high character, proven, smart, team guy etc. He'd be great in Giant blue.

If Im Reese, Id definately try to make a trade. Im sure Vilma would love it too, since he gets to stay in NY.

ohh good god. I'd take him over Briggs. Vilma is crazy good and really, besides clashing with mangini(b/c he's freakin out of position) he's a good character guy. I'd easily give up our 1st rounder for him, which would be a pretty even deal. It'd be crazy in the media though haha, and my cousin(jets fan) would go nuts if they traded Vilma to us

skiinginNJ
10-24-2007, 08:20 PM
The rumors are running wild that Vilma is most likely gone at the end of this season. There seems to already be a rift between him and Mangini.

What would you give up for him?

Me honestly, Id be willing to give up our 1st round pick for him. Think about it. Is there any LB in this draft better than Vilma? No. If you look at it from a best player available perspective, he'll be better than any CB or LB or safety available for us at our pick. And he's young. He's a leader, a great player, high character, proven, smart, team guy etc. He'd be great in Giant blue.

If Im Reese, Id definately try to make a trade. Im sure Vilma would love it too, since he gets to stay in NY.



id love vilma, but i dont know if i would give up a 1st for him. rumor is he has a knee injury that might be serious.


he would really fit in our system though, either at the will or mike (post pierce)

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:22 PM
It would make sense for both teams really. We get a LB we desperately need at WILL, and one probably better than any available LB in the draft.

They get an extra draft pick to rebuild their team with. Win win. And its good for Vilma too, since he stays here and doesn't have to go through the hassle of moving and finding a new home. I think he'd be down for it. And I have a gut feeling that he enjoys the NY limelight. He'd get to stay here and enjoy it in Giant blue :)

scottyboy
10-24-2007, 08:23 PM
It would make sense for both teams really. We get a LB we desperately need at WILL, and one probably better than any available LB in the draft.

They get an extra draft pick to rebuild their team with. Win win. And its good for Vilma too, since he stays here and doesn't have to go through the hassle of moving and finding a new home. I think he'd be down for it. And I have a gut feeling that he enjoys the NY limelight. He'd get to stay here and enjoy it in Giant blue :)

ok so lets just get Reese on the phone with the jets, and we should be good.

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:24 PM
ok so lets just get Reese on the phone with the jets, and we should be good.

Youre the one with the Giants connects lol. Whisper sweet nothings into Strahan's ear so he can put ideas in Reese's head :)

scottyboy
10-24-2007, 08:31 PM
Youre the one with the Giants connects lol. Whisper sweet nothings into Strahan's ear so he can put ideas in Reese's head :)

well, i do have Osi's cell number in my phone, but he only answers if he knows the number :(

but with that said, good ol' auntie agent is coming to town for halloween, maybe i could just grab her cell phone for just a minute...:D

Number 10
10-24-2007, 08:35 PM
1st for Vilma? Eh. This may be a classical case of some guys here getting a tad too excited about a player's potential availability and wanting to overpay for him.

Think about it...if Vilma does indeed have something wrong with his knee, do you really want to give up a 1st round pick for him in what appears to be a strong draft? And Vilma has been upset with the Jets because he was taken out of the 4-3 MIKE role...you think he would be happy with being a WILL? Sure he's back in the 4-3 but I would assume he wants the middle back in his hands, not the outside...a spot nobody is sure he can play effectively. Plus, his contract is up soon and no matter what he is going to get a raise over what he is being paid now, and rookie contracts are so beneficial economically speaking.

He's a nice player, but I just don't see him in blue and I sure as hell would not give up a 1st for him.

scottyboy
10-24-2007, 08:41 PM
1st for Vilma? Eh. This may be a classical case of some guys here getting a tad too excited about a player's potential availability and wanting to overpay for him.

Think about it...if Vilma does indeed have something wrong with his knee, do you really want to give up a 1st round pick for him in what appears to be a strong draft? And Vilma has been upset with the Jets because he was taken out of the 4-3 MIKE role...you think he would be happy with being a WILL? Sure he's back in the 4-3 but I would assume he wants the middle back in his hands, not the outside...a spot nobody is sure he can play effectively. Plus, his contract is up soon and no matter what he is going to get a raise over what he is being paid now, and rookie contracts are so beneficial economically speaking.

He's a nice player, but I just don't see him in blue and I sure as hell would not give up a 1st for him.

ugggh fine. but I'm still gonna steal my aunts phone and tell Osi and Strahan to push for drafting Greene, Ito and every other possible RU prospect.

and sorry BBD, but I'ma push my aunt hard to get her to talk Gibril into staying. He likes her, he once brought her fried chicken from Ron Stone's restaurant in California.(nice dude, not the brightest lol)

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Thats a good point on Vilma wanting to play MIKE. But hey, he can move there once Pierce gets old :)

Id give him a try. I think he's better than say, Keith Rivers, so why not? He'll cost more but he'll also bring more to the table.

Im not too worried about his injury either. I think thats smoke and mirrors by the Jets.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-24-2007, 10:00 PM
i would rather sign briggs and be able to spend the first on another of our many needs than lose both our first and cap space to get vilma.

Number 10
10-24-2007, 10:14 PM
Honestly...I've been studying/researching philosophies around the league and I just don't see the 100% need to go after the top tier free agents. Of course it's nice to get an Astante Samuel or Lance Briggs and I would never say never with them....but I just feel if you have a strong scouting department and smart GM, the established big names should be steered away from.

The draft is THE way to build a team in every facet, veteran acquisitions should be role players in my opinion. Now I'm not saying Briggs/Samuel should never be brought in, but I just don't like the way money is being thrown around these days. I'd much rather go after a couple middle tier FAs like a Dominic Rhodes-Eugene Wilson-Donte Stallworth- level players. Bring guys like that in and draft strong, freeing up money to lock up your own gems which always costs cheaper than a the market.

Giantsfan1080
10-24-2007, 11:00 PM
The way Tuck is playing now we're going to have give him a lot more money as well when his time comes up. As #10 just said we're going to need money for our own guys so we have to keep that in mind.

Number 10
10-24-2007, 11:05 PM
Don't forget about Snee...and even though we extended Osi already...I'm sure his agent will demand more cash if he continues on this pace. I don't think he is making even half of what Freeney is making.

Giantsfan1080
10-24-2007, 11:55 PM
Don't forget about Snee...and even though we extended Osi already...I'm sure his agent will demand more cash if he continues on this pace. I don't think he is making even half of what Freeney is making.

Your right about Snee he is also going to get a huge pay day. I thought the contract we gave Osi last year was the biggest for a player at his age. I'm sure it escalates quickly so I'm not as worried about him money wise.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-25-2007, 08:10 AM
I'm not that concerned with sigining our own guys since the cap is sure to grow, we'll have strahan and toomer coming off the books in a few years and as a nyc team we will never lack the funds to pay up to the cap, so we could sign our guys to deals that escalate comfortably. Plus i think briggs is the type of impact guy on defense that we paid ap to be.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 08:51 AM
I agree with #10 that the best way to build is via the draft and role players in FA. But thats not easily done. Sometimes it takes a big name to get you over the hump.

Look at the Pats. They are the model franchise, and they don't shy away from FAs if they need em.

Having that said, we are better off just sticking with the draft. Im worried that in the long term, its gonna be impossible to keep Kiwi, Osi and Tuck. Unless Kiwi can develop into a LB, thats way too much money invested into one spot.

Thats why im hoping Kiwi can pan out. Bc if he doesnt, we're losing either him or Tuck to FA.

Jughead10
10-25-2007, 08:55 AM
You can't sign high profile expsensive free agents every year, but every couple of years when you have a lot of cap room, I think you can splurge for that one guy. This year it looks like we have a ton of cap room and with our quiet offseason last year, I wouldn't be surpised if opted for that one big free agent.

As for the Pats, the only big guy they really signed was Adalius Thomas. Of course Moss but he was cheap. We'll see if they resign him. They don't offer big contracts every year but every now and then if it fills a need it can be done.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 09:28 AM
Question of the day. If we can only keep one, who do you keep and why? Tuck or Kiwi?

Thats a real tough one. Both are studs and playmakers. I really don't know who I would choose. I think as a long term DE Tuck might be better, but Kiwi is a playmaker too. He just needs to muscle up and he'll be possibly even better than Tuck.

Number 10
10-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Question of the day. If we can only keep one, who do you keep and why? Tuck or Kiwi?

Thats a real tough one. Both are studs and playmakers. I really don't know who I would choose. I think as a long term DE Tuck might be better, but Kiwi is a playmaker too. He just needs to muscle up and he'll be possibly even better than Tuck.

I pray we don't have to choose but to answer your question, I'd go with Tuck.

Brings more power to the table and just as much speed...is really developing as a pass rusher in terms of using his hands and pass rush moves. Remember, the only reason we got him in the 3rd round was because a couple of injuries he had at Notre Dame. For awhile he was being considered the best DE in college football.

Number 10
10-25-2007, 09:41 AM
But in all honesty, I think we will be able to keep both of them with Strahan off the books soon. At least for another 3-5 years.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 10:03 AM
But in all honesty, I think we will be able to keep both of them with Strahan off the books soon. At least for another 3-5 years.

Somewhere the roster is gonna give a little. If I had to choose where, Id go with the LB core. We can just replenish LB talent via the draft for cheap. But I want to keep the dline dominant, and I want us to build up a solid secondary.

The Eagles have been getting away with JAG LB talent for awhile. We can do the same if we spend and draft wisely.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-25-2007, 10:04 AM
I keep kiwi cause the ceiling is higher but I'd hate to part with either one.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 10:08 AM
I keep kiwi cause the ceiling is higher but I'd hate to part with either one.

The thing thats great about Tuck is that he can play both DE positions, and play UT in the nickel. He's big and strong enough to be that versatile.

Kiwi is mostly a RE really. He can play LE, but Tuck would play it better. Kiwi is also more of a speed rusher, whereas Tuck can beat you with speed and power.

But Kiwi's athleticism is ridiculous, and he's a very smart player. He just simply makes plays. He plays bigger than his size also. I don't know, its so tough. Im just hoping and praying that he can work as SAM.

Its really a 3 year process. They say it takes 3 years for a DE to make the full conversion to LB and thats in a 3-4 scheme. In a 4-3 Man coverage scheme, the conversion is even harder. We're being impatient with his development which is really not fair, but what worries me is that he's not really showing any signs of improvement in coverage, and we're 7 games into the season now. Im hoping by the end of the season, he'll show enough promise that we can rely on him as SAM rushbacker for the longterm.

Geo
10-25-2007, 10:11 AM
On rookie contracts, Tuck is signed through 2008 and Kiwi through 2010.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 10:13 AM
On rookie contracts, Tuck is signed through 2008 and Kiwi through 2010.

Tuck is going to ask for some major cash soon. He's getting paid Round 3 money and he's worth more than that. We might have to franchise him.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-25-2007, 11:05 AM
The thing thats great about Tuck is that he can play both DE positions, and play UT in the nickel. He's big and strong enough to be that versatile.

Kiwi is mostly a RE really. He can play LE, but Tuck would play it better. Kiwi is also more of a speed rusher, whereas Tuck can beat you with speed and power.

But Kiwi's athleticism is ridiculous, and he's a very smart player. He just simply makes plays. He plays bigger than his size also. I don't know, its so tough. Im just hoping and praying that he can work as SAM.

Its really a 3 year process. They say it takes 3 years for a DE to make the full conversion to LB and thats in a 3-4 scheme. In a 4-3 Man coverage scheme, the conversion is even harder. We're being impatient with his development which is really not fair, but what worries me is that he's not really showing any signs of improvement in coverage, and we're 7 games into the season now. Im hoping by the end of the season, he'll show enough promise that we can rely on him as SAM rushbacker for the longterm.

From last year I'm convinced that kiwi can fluourish as a LE or RE while he has great speed he's just such a nasty athlete with under-rated strength. And what does it matter if tuck can play ut in the nickel if we don't have a guy to play the other de spot?

bigbluedefense
10-25-2007, 12:20 PM
From last year I'm convinced that kiwi can fluourish as a LE or RE while he has great speed he's just such a nasty athlete with under-rated strength. And what does it matter if tuck can play ut in the nickel if we don't have a guy to play the other de spot?

we can always draft a situational pass rusher on day 2 to come in the nickel at LE if we can't keep both Kiwi and Tuck. other teams have done it *shrug*

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-25-2007, 02:27 PM
we can always draft a situational pass rusher on day 2 to come in the nickel at LE if we can't keep both Kiwi and Tuck. other teams have done it *shrug*


Or we move up to draft see ellis in the draft and keep both kiwi and tuck! Here's to hoping kiwi fluourishes as an OLB.

skiinginNJ
10-27-2007, 01:50 AM
im probably going to get killed for this, but i wouldnt mind some offense on day 1.

if someone like desean jackson is available, do we pass on his game-breaking ability? malcolm kelley? who knows how long toomer will be playing for, moss hasnt really stepped up, smith is young and should be part of our future, and burress isnt getting any younger


how about a solid RB in round 2, depending on who is available. imagine a poential game breaker like felix jones to pair with jacobs.


this class seems deep with talented OT's, even though our line is good now, we dont have much depth.


obviously CB and LB are needs (CB more for me), but i feel our defense is solid going forward, but we need some more explosiveness on offense

moc182
10-27-2007, 02:23 AM
im probably going to get killed for this, but i wouldnt mind some offense on day 1.

if someone like desean jackson is available, do we pass on his game-breaking ability? malcolm kelley? who knows how long toomer will be playing for, moss hasnt really stepped up, smith is young and should be part of our future, and burress isnt getting any younger


how about a solid RB in round 2, depending on who is available. imagine a poential game breaker like felix jones to pair with jacobs.


this class seems deep with talented OT's, even though our line is good now, we dont have much depth.


obviously CB and LB are needs (CB more for me), but i feel our defense is solid going forward, but we need some more explosiveness on offense

I'm a huge bpa guy so I wouldn't be opposed to that at all, and I agree with your assesment. If a player like D-Jack is available there's no way in hell I'd want to pass him up for a lesser linebacker or corner cause its a bigger perceived need.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-27-2007, 08:04 AM
but you can only draft bpa if we at least get stop gaps in fa

Turtlepower
10-27-2007, 11:45 AM
I've always been a guy who says draft need over value because when you just decide to draft value all the time, you get killed at the places where you need help.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-27-2007, 01:49 PM
drafting by need only helps when you're dependent on rookies to fill needs. I think a team should fill all their needs for the short term through fa and then add the best players they can to develop.

Go_Eli
10-27-2007, 05:36 PM
I've always been a guy who says draft need over value because when you just decide to draft value all the time, you get killed at the places where you need help.

And when you draft for need, you might not get great value.

Number 10
10-29-2007, 10:10 PM
Tracy Porter....keep that name in the back of your mind.

CB from Indiana that is playing better football than any other CB in the nation right now....including Reggie Smith.

Geo
10-29-2007, 11:03 PM
Great mention, I like Porter a great deal as well.

Jughead10
10-30-2007, 07:25 AM
Tracy Porter....keep that name in the back of your mind.

CB from Indiana that is playing better football than any other CB in the nation right now....including Reggie Smith.

Porter had a big game against Penn State. Very long player (although not terribly tall) and knows how to play the ball. Returns punts as well. He's fast but I dunno if he is as fast as Scott's 40 time in his rankings indicate.

NYGibril28
10-30-2007, 07:45 AM
updated 2008 New York Giants Mock

picking 28th

1. Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas (Jr.)
http://www3.dailycamera.com/photos/gallery/live/1029buffs_291006/kuffs4.JPG
The CB's can't tackle. Ross is the best of the bunch, but even he struggles sometimes. Talib is physical. He could be a great nickel until Madison retires and then that would give us a solid 1-2 with Ross and Talib.

2. Philip Wheeler, LB, Georgia Tech
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/41/418422.jpg
I think he has the versatility to play all three LB spots. Could really be an asset to the defense, he's very athletic.

3. Roy Schuening, G, Oregon State
http://media.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/ROYSCHUENING100_8-16.JPG
Depth on the O-Line is needed. Diehl has been good at LT, we all know that. So what's to say we don't keep him there. Chances are we won't find anyone in Free Agency.

4. Bobbie Williams, S, Bethune-Cookman
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/beth/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/1250224.jpeg
One of my favorite safeties in this draft. Has a knack for making big plays. Six interceptions each year as a Sophomore and Junior. Rashean Mathis went to Bethune-Cookman, so it is a talented program.

5. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/college/img8914834.jpg
He's got an explosive burst. Could really improve our kick returning. Chance for development as a WR is there also.

6. Calvin Dawson, RB, Louisiana-Monroe
http://images.athlonsports.com/d/5136-1/CalvinDawson.jpg
He's had great productivity in college. Late-round flier, you never know. He could impress, and if not, it's only a 6th rounder.

7. (v/GB) Jeremy Ito, K, Rutgers
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11102006/photos/sports133.jpg
We all know we need a kicker, and this pick is just being nice for scottyboy.

bigbluedefense
10-30-2007, 08:50 AM
I would really like to compliment Ross with a CB w/ 4.3 speed. I think we need a speedster who can keep up with the opposing team's burner. That would be a perfect compliment to Ross.

One thing Im looking into is perhaps taking a day 2 LT and converting him to Guard. With the depth in this draft, there will be a solid round 3/round 4 LT who we can convert. That might be better than taking the best available guard at that position.

Turtlepower
10-30-2007, 11:45 AM
I would really like to compliment Ross with a CB w/ 4.3 speed. I think we need a speedster who can keep up with the opposing team's burner. That would be a perfect compliment to Ross.

Which is exactly why I haven't been extremely high on Cason for the Giants. Too much of a Ross clone.

Number 10
10-30-2007, 01:27 PM
While Cason does remind me of Ross in a lot of ways...be defends the deep ball much better.

Cason was my #1 CB right ahead of Ross before he withdrew from the draft last year for that sole reason.

D-Unit
10-30-2007, 02:41 PM
updated 2008 New York Giants Mock

picking 28th

1. Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas (Jr.)
http://www3.dailycamera.com/photos/gallery/live/1029buffs_291006/kuffs4.JPG
The CB's can't tackle. Ross is the best of the bunch, but even he struggles sometimes. Talib is physical. He could be a great nickel until Madison retires and then that would give us a solid 1-2 with Ross and Talib.

2. Philip Wheeler, LB, Georgia Tech
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/41/418422.jpg
I think he has the versatility to play all three LB spots. Could really be an asset to the defense, he's very athletic.

3. Roy Schuening, G, Oregon State
http://media.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/ROYSCHUENING100_8-16.JPG
Depth on the O-Line is needed. Diehl has been good at LT, we all know that. So what's to say we don't keep him there. Chances are we won't find anyone in Free Agency.

4. Bobbie Williams, S, Bethune-Cookman
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/beth/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/1250224.jpeg
One of my favorite safeties in this draft. Has a knack for making big plays. Six interceptions each year as a Sophomore and Junior. Rashean Mathis went to Bethune-Cookman, so it is a talented program.

5. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/college/img8914834.jpg
He's got an explosive burst. Could really improve our kick returning. Chance for development as a WR is there also.

6. Calvin Dawson, RB, Louisiana-Monroe
http://images.athlonsports.com/d/5136-1/CalvinDawson.jpg
He's had great productivity in college. Late-round flier, you never know. He could impress, and if not, it's only a 6th rounder.

7. (v/GB) Jeremy Ito, K, Rutgers
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11102006/photos/sports133.jpg
We all know we need a kicker, and this pick is just being nice for scottyboy.
I'd be happy if you guys had that draft. Looks pretty crappy. I don't know about Talib being physical. If you want physical, Terrell Thomas and Chevis Jackson are much more physical.

NYGibril28
10-30-2007, 02:42 PM
I'd be happy if you guys had that draft. Looks pretty crappy. I don't know about Talib being physical. If you want physical, Terrell Thomas and Chevis Jackson are much more physical.

Isn't one of the rules here to not be a troll? Explain to me how you're not doing that right here.

D-Unit
10-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Isn't one of the rules here to not be a troll? Explain to me how you're not doing that right here.
This is a troll.
http://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/troll.jpg

What I did was comment on your awesome mock and provide feedback.

NYGibril28
10-30-2007, 02:48 PM
This is a troll.
http://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/troll.jpg

What I did was comment on your awesome mock and provide feedback.

The looks pretty crappy part isn't really the right terms to describe an "awesome" mock.

D-Unit
10-30-2007, 02:57 PM
The looks pretty crappy part isn't really the right terms to describe an "awesome" mock.
Awesome for Cowboys fans, crappy for Giants fans.

Do other Giants fans like this mock? If so, then I take back the crappy statement and say, have a wonderful future.

But seriously, you can't be offended when somebody comments on a mock you post. Doesn't matter where it happens on the forum.

NYGibril28
10-30-2007, 03:00 PM
Awesome for Cowboys fans, crappy for Giants fans.

Do other Giants fans like this mock? If so, then I take back the crappy statement and say, have a wonderful future.

But seriously, you can't be offended when somebody comments on a mock you post. Doesn't matter where it happens on the forum.

I didn't act offended. I don't care who likes my mock or not. I was just pointing out, is it really necessary for a Cowboys fan to be criticizing a mock in the Giants team discussion thread?

scottyboy
10-30-2007, 03:42 PM
if we didnt address safety till the 4th round, and passed on Courtney Greene, I'd shoot myself. do love Ito. Royal would be a great value pick in round 5. We could do ALOT better at CB round one than Talib

D-Unit
10-30-2007, 04:39 PM
I didn't act offended. I don't care who likes my mock or not. I was just pointing out, is it really necessary for a Cowboys fan to be criticizing a mock in the Giants team discussion thread?
It doesn't matter what team anyone is a fan of. This Giants forum isn't exclusive to Giants fans. Posters can post in any forum they want to. A guy like you who often claims that this place is a public forum should understand that.


When someone is posting a lot of useless, irrelevant comments in a forum, that is trolling.

Here's my shot at a Giants Mock. I'll go 4 rounds cause anything after that is a definite shot in the dark.

1. DE Vernon Gholston, OSU - Strahan could retire
2. CB Dwight Lowry, San Jose St. - Has the talent, will it translate?
3. LB Xavier Adibi, Virginia Tech - Relentless in pursuit and makes plays from sideline to sideline. Durability is a question mark that may cause his stock to fall.
4. S Marcus Griffin, Texas - Instinctive, tough and aggressive.. but not as talented as previous Texas DBs.

LTgiants
10-30-2007, 05:27 PM
so what if Strahan retires? we have Justin tuck and we can always move kiwi back to defensive end

BaLLiN
10-30-2007, 06:29 PM
I like the first two picks, and bobbie williams, i dont know the rest, and ito isn't that incredible.

D-Unit
10-30-2007, 07:17 PM
so what if Strahan retires? we have Justin tuck and we can always move kiwi back to defensive end
Sure you could do that as well. I mean you have that luxury. But at the sametime, if you lose Strahan, something has to give. The current set up right now is working pretty well for everyone... at least from an outsiders perspective. I honestly think Tuck's breakout season is partly attributed to the surrounding cast. ...as well as his own development. However, if one component goes down, it could have a trickling down affect on the rest of the front 7. Stick Gholston in there and the machine keeps on rollin'. Just sayin' that's my point of view. You could go in a lot of different directions and help the team out. It depends who's on the board, but Gholston just seems like a NYG type of guy imo.

Number 10
10-30-2007, 07:28 PM
D brings up a good point in that Strahan could (and I think he will) be gone after the season. I think we will spend a draft pick on a DE, just not an early one.

Maybe a developmental guy in the middle rounds that has some speed to play special teams. Some call me crazy for this because many don't see him as a DE prospect at all....but UCLA's Bruce Davis is the kind of guy I am thinking about.

Jughead10
10-30-2007, 11:37 PM
Sure you could do that as well. I mean you have that luxury. But at the sametime, if you lose Strahan, something has to give. The current set up right now is working pretty well for everyone... at least from an outsiders perspective. I honestly think Tuck's breakout season is partly attributed to the surrounding cast. ...as well as his own development. However, if one component goes down, it could have a trickling down affect on the rest of the front 7. Stick Gholston in there and the machine keeps on rollin'. Just sayin' that's my point of view. You could go in a lot of different directions and help the team out. It depends who's on the board, but Gholston just seems like a NYG type of guy imo.

Thats funny you see him as a NYG type of guy because I see more of a Dallas type of guy. I agree with taking a DE, especially if Strahan retires, but I'd wait until rounds 2-4. Especially since Gholston is still raw. He barely even rushes with his hand on the ground. They stand him up right on the line of scrimmage. I see him more of a 3-4 OLB.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-30-2007, 11:45 PM
I'd rather look to ad a premier dt in the first and slide tuck into the starting lineup, make kiwi the immediate backup de for both spots and add a project on day 2.

I hope ellis slides into the midteens and we work up a trade to add him to our front 7. That way if strahan leaves we'll still have a great pass rush and if he stays we're not completely overstocked at de. Don't know what we'd have to give to get it done, maybe a second and fourth this year and a first next year?could still draft a corner like king with our first and have our third and day 2 picks to add a safety and oline depth.

Turtlepower
10-30-2007, 11:48 PM
I'd rather look to ad a premier dt in the first and slide tuck into the starting lineup, make kiwi the immediate backup de for both spots and add a project on day 2.

I hope ellis slides into the midteens and we work up a trade to add him to our front 7. That way if strahan leaves we'll still have a great pass rush and if he stays we're not completely overstocked at de. Don't know what we'd have to give to get it done, maybe a second and fourth this year and a first next year?could still draft a corner like king with our first and have our third and day 2 picks to add a safety and oline depth.

I would not want to move up under any circumstances unless it is for someone like Malcolm Jenkins. Yes, DT is a need for us, but I still put CB and S over DT. Anyway, besides Dorsey and Ellis, there is no other DT who merits any kind of consideration in round 1.

D-Unit
10-31-2007, 12:07 AM
I'd be pissed if you guys ended up with Sedrick Ellis. That would just be unfair.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 12:09 AM
I'd be pissed if you guys ended up with Sedrick Ellis. That would just be unfair.

We would average 15 sacks a game with him on the d-line. Hopefully he can improve on stopping the run because that is right now his biggest flaw. Still, I would not want to trade up for him because I see this year as a very deep draft and next year as a down year. =D

Number 10
10-31-2007, 12:13 AM
I like the depth in this draft, thus trading up to get a premier player...let's just say it would have to be a deal in our favor.

If we could somehow get our hands on the likes of a Dorsey-Ellis-Smith-Loadholt....then I'd have to consider it if we don't have to overpay. Neither Ellis or Dorsey are big space eaters...but can you imagine them in our line?

I understand those 2 DTs are playing like they'll be top 5 picks right now but things always change as the offseason goes on, so you can't dismiss it here.

Number 10
10-31-2007, 12:15 AM
Thats funny you see him as a NYG type of guy because I see more of a Dallas type of guy. I agree with taking a DE, especially if Strahan retires, but I'd wait until rounds 2-4. Especially since Gholston is still raw. He barely even rushes with his hand on the ground. They stand him up right on the line of scrimmage. I see him more of a 3-4 OLB.

I see him as an NYG guy as well...a classic NYG that is. Reminds me of a young Strahan a bit, just the way he is built and his intensity.

I actually think he'll stay put for another year though.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 12:16 AM
I like the depth in this draft, thus trading up to get a premier player...let's just say it would have to be a deal in our favor.

If we could somehow get our hands on the likes of a Dorsey-Ellis-Smith-Loadholt....then I'd have to consider it if we don't have to overpay. Neither Ellis or Dorsey are big space eaters...but can you imagine them in our line?

I understand those 2 DTs are playing like they'll be top 5 picks right now but things always change as the offseason goes on, so you can't dismiss it here.

What about Malcolm Jenkins if he comes out? I see him as possibly the best CB prospect since Pacman.

D-Unit
10-31-2007, 12:30 AM
What about Malcolm Jenkins if he comes out? I see him as possibly the best CB prospect since Pacman.
I don't see him falling to you nor do I see you guys trading up for him. There are a lot of CBs available mid first to second round similar to last year. Mike Jenkins, Terrell Thomas, Reggie Smith (if he declares), Chevis Jackson, DeJuan Tribble, Justin King, Aqib Talib... etc.

Number 10
10-31-2007, 01:00 AM
Jenkins is solid and comes from a program known for producing solid CB talent....but I'm not sure I would trade up for him. Reggie Smith is the only DB I would trade up for right now...he is the #1 CB in the nation and I think he could also play a nasty FS if need be...probably better than any S prospect as well.

There are a ton of CBs in this draft that will look attractive to many teams come April....wouldn't be surprised to see 8 drafted in the first round if the juniors declare. That said, I'm not sure it would be smart to trade up for Jenkins because personally, he is somewhere in the 3-5 ranking of my CB list right now. There are too many CBs that bring similar tools to the table.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 01:03 AM
Jenkins is solid and comes from a program known for producing solid CB talent....but I'm not sure I would trade up for him. Reggie Smith is the only DB I would trade up for right now...he is the #1 CB in the nation and I think he could also play a nasty FS if need be...probably better than any S prospect as well.

There are a ton of CBs in this draft that will look attractive to many teams come April....wouldn't be surprised to see 8 drafted in the first round if the juniors declare. That said, I'm not sure it would be smart to trade up for Jenkins because personally, he is somewhere in the 3-5 ranking of my CB list right now. There are too many CBs that bring similar tools to the table.

I actually have Reggie Smith as a better FS prospect than Kenny Phillips.

D-Unit
10-31-2007, 01:06 AM
I actually have Reggie Smith as a better FS prospect than Kenny Phillips.
I have Malcolm Jenkins a better FS prospect than Kenny Phillips. Phillips the better SS prospect.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 01:11 AM
I have Malcolm Jenkins a better FS prospect than Kenny Phillips. Phillips the better SS prospect.

I really foresee Phillips running much slower than most people predict. Even though a 4.55 isn't that slow, it is not what I would want for a FS on our defense. As for Jenkins, he is too good of a shutdown corner to be a FS. =D

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-31-2007, 09:14 AM
I wouldn't want to trade up unless it involved future picks, with the NFC the way it is I think if we're aggressive this offseason we could go to a superbowl or two in the next few years which is why I was thinking something around a second this year and a first next year for a late teens pick, if someone like ellis false that far. If not then we stay put and grab a Justin King.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 09:31 AM
I wouldn't want to trade up unless it involved future picks, with the NFC the way it is I think if we're aggressive this offseason we could go to a superbowl or two in the next few years which is why I was thinking something around a second this year and a first next year for a late teens pick, if someone like ellis false that far. If not then we stay put and grab a Justin King.

After the way King has played lately, I would smack TC if he took King in the first.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-31-2007, 09:37 AM
After the way King has played lately, I would smack TC if he took King in the first.

i think once he runs a sub 4.4 he'll be a first round lock. He'd take some work but a great pass rush and o are a corner's best friend so he could get away with mental errors.

bigbluedefense
10-31-2007, 09:54 AM
Actually guys, we need a SS much worse than a FS. Im not a believer in Gibril at SS, or FS for that matter unless we have an elite coverage SAM in front of him which we don't.

I rather let him go to FA, sign Eugene Wilson at FS, and look for a SS in the draft.

We need a SS who can cover the TE and play the deep zone, and of course do a good job tackling.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-31-2007, 10:33 AM
Actually guys, we need a SS much worse than a FS. Im not a believer in Gibril at SS, or FS for that matter unless we have an elite coverage SAM in front of him which we don't.

I rather let him go to FA, sign Eugene Wilson at FS, and look for a SS in the draft.

We need a SS who can cover the TE and play the deep zone, and of course do a good job tackling.

if we added an elite will to cover the TE and Eugene wilson to play the deep centerfield spot we could have more freedom to play gibril up in the box. Giving us a pseudo-46 look.

bigbluedefense
10-31-2007, 10:36 AM
if we added an elite will to cover the TE and Eugene wilson to play the deep centerfield spot we could have more freedom to play gibril up in the box. Giving us a semi-46 look.

The problem is we have Kiwi at SAM.

Suppose teams line up the TE across from Kiwi on every play. Now its up to the SS to essentially pick him up. The WILL is on the other side. And the FS has more responsibilty than just picking up the TE deep on every play. Offenses are too smart for that, theyll start stretching our CBs out if we do that.

Getting a WILL works in nickel situations when we have our MIKE and WILL as our LBs, but in our base 4-3 we still need a SS who can cover the TE since we have no SAM capable of doing that.

Unless we stick to the current plan of running alot of Cover 2 variation out of the base 4-3 and unleashing our blitzes in the nickel.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 10:38 AM
i think once he runs a sub 4.4 he'll be a first round lock. He'd take some work but a great pass rush and o are a corner's best friend so he could get away with mental errors.

I've always been a believer that a 40 times does not make the player and even if King runs a sub 4.4, I still wouldn't want to take him in the first. Even though Cason is a Aaron Ross clone, I would much prefer having two slower corners who could cover WRs than 1 cover corner and 1 speedy one who will blow coverage every other play. Justin King may improve next year, but he is a project right now and with the way our defense is, I want a player who will start sometime in 2008.

bigbluedefense
10-31-2007, 10:41 AM
I've always been a believer that a 40 times does not make the player and even if King runs a sub 4.4, I still wouldn't want to take him in the first. Even though Cason is a Aaron Ross clone, I would much prefer having two slower corners who could cover WRs than 1 cover corner and 1 speedy one who will blow coverage every other play. Justin King may improve next year, but he is a project right now and with the way our defense is, I want a player who will start sometime in 2008.

We can't have 2 Ross's though. Because then we'll just have the same issues we'll have this year and the draft pick is a waste. Im not a believer in 40 times for the most part.

But for CBs, Im a big believer in it. As a CB, your bread and butter is your ability to read and react and your speed. Speed is absolutely critical for a cover corner. We need someone with 4.3 speed. When I evaluate CBs this draft, the ones that run 4.5 at the combine are not the guys I want. We need a guy with 4.3 speed.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 10:46 AM
But for CBs, Im a big believer in it. As a CB, your bread and butter is your ability to read and react and your speed. Speed is absolutely critical for a cover corner. We need someone with 4.3 speed. When I evaluate CBs this draft, the ones that run 4.5 at the combine are not the guys I want. We need a guy with 4.3 speed.

True, but I want a good combination of the two. I honestly believe that Justin King might turn it around next year, but if he comes out this year, I believe he will be a project. My favorite player in this draft at CB other than Malcolm Jenkins is Aqib Talib. I believe he is going to be running a 4.4, maybe even less, and I have been very impressed with him while covering different receivers. From a scouting perspective, I sort of hope that Kansas plays Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship. Malcolm Kelly vs. Aqib Talib would be an unbelievable match-up to watch.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-31-2007, 10:49 AM
I general value quickness and agility over speed but we need someone to stay with burners opposite ross, so i do think that 40 times matter for us. And a guy like king has great speed, quickness and agility. So we could throw him into the fire and watch him develop, can't expect a ross type impact every year.

bigbluedefense
10-31-2007, 10:53 AM
True, but I want a good combination of the two. I honestly believe that Justin King might turn it around next year, but if he comes out this year, I believe he will be a project. My favorite player in this draft at CB other than Malcolm Jenkins is Aqib Talib. I believe he is going to be running a 4.4, maybe even less, and I have been very impressed with him while covering different receivers. From a scouting perspective, I sort of hope that Kansas plays Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship. Malcolm Kelly vs. Aqib Talib would be an unbelievable match-up to watch.

yeah its way too early to know now. At this point last year, Hughes was considered a top 3 CB until he ran like a 4.6 at the combine.

I don't think any of us expected Leon Hall to run a 4.3 either. So who knows. Im just saying in general. I don't know anything about specific players yet because I don't follow college football as much as the NFL.

Damix
10-31-2007, 11:28 AM
Eugine Wilson doesn't even start, I don't think he is very good at all.

Geo
10-31-2007, 11:35 AM
Daymeion (now Dante) Hughes was an absolute steal, I'm still giddy about that pick.

As for Talib running a 4.4 flat, I'm not a firm believer. I have a suspicion that timed speed might hurt him some come the pre-Draft process.

Is Ross really that much of a "slower" corner? I haven't seen it myself, granted I haven't watched every Giants game start to finish.

Damix
10-31-2007, 11:38 AM
He changed his name?