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DMWSackMachine
09-13-2007, 01:37 PM
I was just thinking: now that the KC O-line has finally faded into the sunset, is there a unit that is ready to stand up and replace it?

I have been casting about, and I can't think of one single dominant O-line in the NFL that is ready to step up and take hold of the title.

Philly? Good, but aging in a few spots and not quite there.

NO? Some nice pieces, but need more time to gel and might be a little bit of fools gold.

Washington? They were very good, but the defections of Dockery and the injury to-an admittedly, already declining--Jansen keep them from it.

Seattle? Jones is showing his age, and they have been disappointed by Spencer. You also get the feeling that they have never quite recovered from losing Hutch.

Pitt? Uh, not quite. Just not enough top-shelf talent.

Cinncy? Could have been, but Steinbach left and Anderson is aging.


There doesn't seem to be a real, rock-solid unit that dominates every game. My best guesses for the future are San Diego, NYJ and.....call me crazy, but Cleveland.

Still, in the game against Chicago, McNeill was getting beat regularly and they weren't getting good push in the run game--granted it was against Chicago--and the Jets just haven't really gotten there. I'm starting to wonder if D'Brick will ever make the leap. Cleveland has my favorite tackle prospect in recent history on their team. Steinbach playing on the interior, and hopefully a boost coming from Bentley. That is three players there who are able capable of dominating on a game by game basis, but there is a long ways for them to go.

And then there is Tennessee. Roos anchoring the edge, and a still very good Mawae plugging the middle. Along with some nice young interior talent, is this the new emerging O-line of the future? Maybe they are already there.

Am I missing something?

D-Unit
09-13-2007, 01:40 PM
I think it's safe to say that this is the best line out there...

LT Flozell Adams / Doug Free
LG Kyle Kosier / Pat McQuistan
C Andre Gurode / Corey Proctor
RG Leonard Davis / Joe Berger
RT Marc Columbo / James Marten

haha...jk... we're getting there, but not yet.

bored of education
09-13-2007, 01:44 PM
I HOPE NO ONE SAYS THE BROWNS or in 5 years it will be the BROWNS. I'll vomit.

/\ proof i didnt read the thread makers post. LOL@Cleveland having a future anything except for Wimbley and Jones.

Shiver
09-13-2007, 01:46 PM
Tennessee is up and coming with two young stud Tackles: Michael Roos and David Stewart. Stewart in particular is impressive and has drawn rave reviews from Norm Chow.

TimD
09-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Tennessee is up and coming with two young stud Tackles: Michael Roos and David Stewart. Stewart in particular is impressive and has drawn rave reviews from Norm Chow.

but your interior line is old... i think you have a top 5 line right now

Shiver
09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
The terms "you" and "your" are possessive. What makes you think that my team is the Titans?

remix 6
09-13-2007, 01:56 PM
wondering why Patriots OL wasnt considered and then i realized...were cheaters and thats why your keeping us out

Jets? no way.

bored of education
09-13-2007, 01:58 PM
Yes Cheaters.

Ewing
09-13-2007, 01:59 PM
LT: McNeil - 23
LG: Dielman - 26
C: Hardwick - 26
RG: Goff - 31
RT: Olivea- 25

And they're all under contract for next season. All they need is to draft a young right guard after Goff leaves and you're looking a line that's going to dominate for the next eight years.

nvot9
09-13-2007, 02:06 PM
How bout the Patriots...?

JK17
09-13-2007, 02:07 PM
LT: McNeil - 23
LG: Dielman - 26
C: Hardwick - 26
RG: Goff - 31
RT: Olivea- 25

And they're all under contract for next season. All they need is to draft a young right guard after Goff leaves and you're looking a line that's going to dominate for the next eight years.

The only thing is that Olivea, in my opinion, is somewhat of a weak spot. He's a solid player, but he also lets up a lot of sacks and gets beat a little more then I'd like to see.

619
09-13-2007, 02:09 PM
Minnesota Vikings

LT - Bryant Mckinnie
LG - Steve Hutchinson
C- Matt Birk
RG - Artis Hicks
RT - Ryan Cook

Splat
09-13-2007, 02:10 PM
I would have to go with SD but they did not have a great game last week but the Bears DL is unreal so I would still give it to SD on paper.

Green Bay Scat
09-13-2007, 02:14 PM
LT: McNeil - 23
LG: Dielman - 26
C: Hardwick - 26
RG: Goff - 31
RT: Olivea- 25

And they're all under contract for next season. All they need is to draft a young right guard after Goff leaves and you're looking a line that's going to dominate for the next eight years.

what they need to do is draft Dunlap from Auburn, put him at RT and have Olivea be a RG.... then u have 2 McNeils! its PERFCET!

Ewing
09-13-2007, 02:23 PM
The only thing is that Olivea, in my opinion, is somewhat of a weak spot. He's a solid player, but he also lets up a lot of sacks and gets beat a little more then I'd like to see.

Yeah he could be better but you can't expect five all-pro caliber players on one line. Besides, there aren't many elite right tackles in the NFL.

Freddy G
09-13-2007, 02:26 PM
The Vikings have the best left side in football, i think. Birk is still a top flight center, but i don't know much about Hicks/Cook/Johnson, if they can step up, i think they got at least a top 2 or three unit. Chargers have some potential.

If i were to pick a unit today it would probably be either the eagles or vikings.

The packers, browns, titans, and 49ers all have some talent that could really be in the running in a couple years.

The Legend
09-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Cowboys & Chargers are dead even for me

Edit: Didnt Mean Browns Ment Cowboys

terribletowel39
09-13-2007, 02:43 PM
did no one see the brown-steelers game?? the o-line of the browns looked like they are almost 20-50 yrs away from having a good line.

regardless of the video taping thing, pats o-line looked ridiculous sunday. they are the best in the league.....well atleast in pass protection. whoever wins the rushing title is who has the best run blocking line.

TitanHope
09-13-2007, 02:49 PM
wondering why Patriots OL wasnt considered and then i realized...were cheaters and thats why your keeping us out

Maybe they're just not among the best O-Lines in the NFL? How about you make a reasonable argument for them instead of whining? The Jets have a lack-luster defensive line. The Pats having good pass protection in that game, and including the video tape scandal, doesn't really prove much. Though, they are a good group, just not the best.

As for the Titans O-Line, thanks for the recognition. The Titans fans knew that the o-line and Vince Young were the reasons Travis Henry became a 1200 yrd rusher all of the sudden, so I'm glad the Mawae and Co. are finally getting the respect they've earned. Kevin Mawae really stepped up as a leader and has really taken that group under his wing. He was by far the best FA addition to this team from '06, and this is coming from Chris Hope's biggest supporter.

bored of education
09-13-2007, 02:49 PM
THE PATS line did look great ...

UKfan
09-13-2007, 02:56 PM
No love for the Colts? Once Ugoh plays a bit more I think they deserve considering.

bored of education
09-13-2007, 02:58 PM
I wanted KC to draft Ben Grubbs, Tony Ugoh, Doug Free 1st day in the draft

remix 6
09-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Maybe they're just not among the best O-Lines in the NFL? How about you make a reasonable argument for them instead of whining? The Jets have a lack-luster defensive line. The Pats having good pass protection in that game, and including the video tape scandal, doesn't really prove much. Though, they are a good group, just not the best.

As for the Titans O-Line, thanks for the recognition. The Titans fans knew that the o-line and Vince Young were the reasons Travis Henry became a 1200 yrd rusher all of the sudden, so I'm glad the Mawae and Co. are finally getting the respect they've earned. Kevin Mawae really stepped up as a leader and has really taken that group under his wing. He was by far the best FA addition to this team from '06, and this is coming from Chris Hope's biggest supporter.

same OL that allowed 26 sacks 3 years in a row. pretty good id say. same OL that shut down the Chargers last year. Light was a pro bowl alternate. Mankins should be a pro bowler, our best OL. Koppen got high praise from BB and said hes the smartest center hes had.Hes a technician, plays smart and knows what to do. Neal is solid, Kaczur is inconsistent but i think hes gonna be good.

Light- 29 yrs old
Mankins -25
Koppen - 28
Neal - 30
Kazcur - 28(..old man in college)

i guess it doesnt really count as a young OL

its not like our pass protection just became great this year. Brady's had his time to throw in past aswell..its just inconsistency..especially with run blocking. Not the best but top 8 easily

bored of education
09-13-2007, 03:05 PM
4. New England Patriots*

skinzzfan25
09-13-2007, 03:06 PM
I really like our line this year. It's a shame Jansen went down, but in all honesty he was terrible this preseason. Wade came in last year during the Saints game and didn't miss a step. Heyer looks to be like a gem, preformed nice in preseason, and did extremely well on Jason Taylor last week.

Now that I look back on it, the Kendall trade was perfect. He brings this mauling, nastiness to our line, which I like a lot. And I was sad to see Dockery go, but he wasn't worth what Buffalo gave him.

I think we can emerge as a top line this year, they did very nice against a good front 7 from Miami.

It's going to either be us, or Philly. We can find out on Monday ;)

remix 6
09-13-2007, 03:11 PM
i wish Seymour was playing Sunday against the Chargers then u can really tell how good they are if Seymour was healthy and the addition of Thomas. its still going to be a tough test for Chargers OL and depending how they fare against a top front 7 will determine if they are for real or not.

bored of education
09-13-2007, 03:25 PM
No Excuses!

Xenos
09-13-2007, 03:37 PM
LT: McNeil - 23
LG: Dielman - 26
C: Hardwick - 26
RG: Goff - 31
RT: Olivea- 25

And they're all under contract for next season. All they need is to draft a young right guard after Goff leaves and you're looking a line that's going to dominate for the next eight years.
Olivea needs to move inside and replace Goff at RG. He has the motor and heart, but he doesn't have the physical stature to play RT. Most of our sacks came from the right side last year because he couldn't handle speed rushers due to his short arms.
I just have this feeling that he can be a pro bowler if he moves in at guard. But that's just me.

Xenos
09-13-2007, 03:41 PM
I would have to go with SD but they did not have a great game last week but the Bears DL is unreal so I would still give it to SD on paper.

Besides the Bear's DL talent (Harris is a beast and was sorely missed in the Superbowl from what I've heart) a lot of the problem with the running game was also due to the Bears stacking the line with 8 to 9 men. Norv never went away from the strategy pounding LT. While it won us the game, I would have liked for Turner to be used in those situations more because he's a more suitable back to pound down a defense.

Xenos
09-13-2007, 03:48 PM
i wish Seymour was playing Sunday against the Chargers then u can really tell how good they are if Seymour was healthy and the addition of Thomas. its still going to be a tough test for Chargers OL and depending how they fare against a top front 7 will determine if they are for real or not.

The Chargers oline will do fine in run blocking. Your defense isn't the Bears and don't have the personnel to stack the line and stop LT like the Bears do. However, the right side is vulnerable to attack and that's where you'll be able to get at Rivers mostly. That and the occasional secondary blitz.

remix 6
09-13-2007, 04:23 PM
The Chargers oline will do fine in run blocking. Your defense isn't the Bears and don't have the personnel to stack the line and stop LT like the Bears do. However, the right side is vulnerable to attack and that's where you'll be able to get at Rivers mostly. That and the occasional secondary blitz.

our weakness verse Chargers was Banta Cain. they knew he couldnt set the edge so they ran at him. they said he wont hide behind Seymour anymore. now, its Vrabel and Colvin outside and Thomas can do it too. were much different with Vrabel outside than when we had Banta Cain.

our run D suffered when Bruschi moved to strongside inside..he couldnt do it..hes too small. Thomas there now..good and big OLB outside with Vrabel. much better

we are 1 of the few teams that have personnel to stop LT. one of the best front 7s. even better when Seymour is back

Splat
09-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Besides the Bear's DL talent (Harris is a beast and was sorely missed in the Superbowl from what I've heart) a lot of the problem with the running game was also due to the Bears stacking the line with 8 to 9 men. Norv never went away from the strategy pounding LT. While it won us the game, I would have liked for Turner to be used in those situations more because he's a more suitable back to pound down a defense.

To me Harris is the best 4-3 DT in football his size plus speed is just a crazy combo his first step is unreal. He did get a way with jumping off sides on one play but it happen so fast. That being said I hate that you can only challenge some plays and not others that was a bad call for sure.

Shiver
09-13-2007, 04:42 PM
Speaking of the Chiefs once holding the crown as the top O-Line, the '03 unit was simply unbelievable.

LT - Willie Roaf
LG - Brian Waters
OC - Casey Wiegmann
RG - Will Shields
RT - John Tait

All of them were in their prime. The Chiefs 5th best lineman then is now the Bears 2nd best lineman now and the Bears have a very good O-Line.

Ravens1991
09-13-2007, 04:42 PM
I think the Ravens can have a good one for the future.

LT-Jared Gaither
LG-Jason Brown
C-Chris Chester
RG-Ben Grubbs
RT-Adam Terry

Don Vito
09-13-2007, 04:44 PM
The Pats OL is actually very good and very young

LT-Light
LG-Mankins
C-Koppen
RG-Neal
RT-Kazcur/O'Callaghan

Splat
09-13-2007, 04:52 PM
Speaking of the Chiefs once holding the crown as the top O-Line, the '03 unit was simply unbelievable.

LT - Willie Roaf
LG - Brian Waters
OC - Casey Wiegmann
RG - Will Shields
RT - John Tait

All of them were in their prime. The Chiefs 5th best lineman then is now the Bears 2nd best lineman now and the Bears have a very good O-Line.

Yep it was pretty unreal you have to throw in T-Rich at FB and Jason Dunn at TE our running game could not be stopped that year one of the best units of all time. That line is the reason we got by so long with out a star WR they had all day to get open Green just stood there and waited.

HoopsDemon12
09-13-2007, 04:52 PM
Yeah he could be better but you can't expect five all-pro caliber players on one line. Besides, there aren't many elite right tackles in the NFL.

Jake Long will be in 3 years mark it down

Xenos
09-13-2007, 05:10 PM
our weakness verse Chargers was Banta Cain. they knew he couldnt set the edge so they ran at him. they said he wont hide behind Seymour anymore. now, its Vrabel and Colvin outside and Thomas can do it too. were much different with Vrabel outside than when we had Banta Cain.

our run D suffered when Bruschi moved to strongside inside..he couldnt do it..hes too small. Thomas there now..good and big OLB outside with Vrabel. much better

we are 1 of the few teams that have personnel to stop LT. one of the best front 7s. even better when Seymour is back

It'll be an interesting matchup like always. After what happened sunday, the oline is going to want to bounce back badly. Plus this game might as well be a rivalry game with the bad blood between both teams. With Phillips healthy as well as Castillo and to a certain extent Igor and Merriman, we'll see old school smash mouth football right down to the wire.

TitanHope
09-13-2007, 05:19 PM
Wasn't '03 the year the Chiefs went 13-3?

Personally, I think the Patriots' OL will have more trouble with the Chargers' DL, than the Chargers' OL will have with the Pats' DL. Williams, Olshansky, and Castillo>Wilfork, Warren, and Jarvis Green, in my opinion.. Not to mention, The 'Bolts have a great FB in Lorenzo Neal, which will help against those great LB's.

zCaddyz
09-13-2007, 05:20 PM
L.T.-Luke Petitgout
L.G.-Arron Sears
C-Matt Lehr
R.G.-Davin Joseph
R.T.-Jeremy Trueblood

Two First round grade Guards, young R.t., only weakness is center

The Unseen
09-13-2007, 05:24 PM
If the Titans O-line continues off of their 282-yard run-blocking perfomance, they are definitely up there. They may not be given credit if they do well against the Colts because of their bad run defense history.

Splat
09-13-2007, 05:36 PM
Wasn't '03 the year the Chiefs went 13-3?


I believe so..

TimD
09-13-2007, 05:47 PM
The terms "you" and "your" are possessive. What makes you think that my team is the Titans?

because you're awesome and the titans are awesome! :D

lol actually i have no idea why i wrote your/you

scottyboy
09-13-2007, 06:06 PM
L.T.-Luke Petitgout
L.G.-Arron Sears
C-Matt Lehr
R.G.-Davin Joseph
R.T.-Jeremy Trueblood

Two First round grade Guards, young R.t., only weakness is center

luke "my aching back", "holding number 77", and "i love to have false starts in seattle" pettigout? you do need a center and LT, but the other 3 are studly.

now the giants arent top 5 material, but are VASTLY under rated... again not saying they are great, but many feel it's a weakness, when the biggest one is at LG.

Number 10
09-13-2007, 06:18 PM
San Diego and New England are a level above anyone else in the league.

Bobo
09-13-2007, 06:56 PM
but your interior line is old... i think you have a top 5 line right now

Mawae and Olsen are old, Bell is young. We have a guy, Eugene Amano, who has looked just as good if not better imo than Olsen when he's played. He can play OC or OG. We drafted a guy this year, Leroy Harris, who hopefully will be a good starter in the future, we'll just have to see. He's played both interior spots. Until Mawae and Olsen start to fall apart, I'm not worried about this line (Olsen may be on his way, but he's the guy on the line I'm least worried about).

I think the line is good, but w/o watching a lot of other lines close, I can't give a very accurate ranking. I have watched Philly's line with some interest, and I thought they were very good. I think Jacksonville's line is very good too.

619
09-13-2007, 06:58 PM
L.T.-Luke Petitgout
L.G.-Arron Sears
C-Matt Lehr
R.G.-Davin Joseph
R.T.-Jeremy Trueblood

Two First round grade Guards, young R.t., only weakness is center

the bucs went from havin one of the leagues worst o-lines to a very much respectable one..nice

Beans
09-13-2007, 07:10 PM
I'll throw in the homer card for good measure.

Bucs could potentially have:

LT/Petitgout/31
LG/Sears/22
C/Buenning/25
RG/Joseph/24
RT/Trueblood/24

If we can get a solid young LT, we could have a good young line in the future.

Hawk
09-13-2007, 08:12 PM
I'm impressed by Tennessee's OL, but I'll give my homer pick and say the Packers OL will be very good by the end of this year

zCaddyz
09-13-2007, 08:17 PM
also we got Penn he was nasty in pre-season he was playin lt for us

PalmerToCJ
09-13-2007, 08:32 PM
The Bengals only would be if we could maintain health.

Stacy Andrews is a VERY gifted OL (can play LG, RG, RT) who hopefully will be re-signed after this year. Whitworth is above average-solid range at LG, LT, RT and is a backup (best backup OL in the league), Levi Jones is elite when healthy... As is Willie Anderson (just missed his first game in 100 something). Ghaiciuc is improving. We could be but aren't at this point, should have a good idea after this season.

P-L
09-13-2007, 09:13 PM
The Vikings have the best left side in football, i think. Birk is still a top flight center, but i don't know much about Hicks/Cook/Johnson, if they can step up, i think they got at least a top 2 or three unit. Unfortunately for the Vikings (fortunate for us NFC North foes) the right side of their line is awful.

EdReedUnstoppable
09-13-2007, 11:19 PM
I HOPE NO ONE SAYS THE BROWNS or in 5 years it will be the BROWNS. I'll vomit.

/\ proof i didnt read the thread makers post. LOL@Cleveland having a future anything except for Wimbley and Jones.

How dare you not mention D'Qwell Jackson in the Browns future things!

bored of education
09-14-2007, 06:46 AM
I think Buc's have a 5-11, 6-10 type season..then draft Tony Hills 2nd round if he makes doesn't shoot up draft boards by season's end (which i say he will)

Xiomera
09-14-2007, 07:05 AM
Undoubtedly the Lions . . .

LT - Jeff Backus
LG - Edwin Mulitalo
C - Dominic Raiola
RG - Damien Woody
RT - George Foster

3 First Rounders, 1 Second Rounder, and one other dude . . . we win!


(Sarcasm Abundance Detected)

bigbluedefense
09-14-2007, 09:01 AM
Im gonna go with San Diego, with the Jets as a potential possibility.

Right here right now, Im gonna with the Patriots. They have a very solid Oline from left to right.


I think in the future, if the Cowboys get Long with Cleveland's draft (something they should seriously consider since Flozell is aging), they will have the best oline in the league.

OzTitan
09-14-2007, 09:05 AM
Cool to see the Titans OL get some respect :) Any Titans fan will tell you how good they were last year. Easily the best position unit on the team.

I think the Chargers OL is the perfect example of a young, under the radar group that emerged into a league leading unit almost overnight from the perspective of the general NFL fan. I think the next unit besides Tennessee which could achieve this is either NYJ or Greenbay, but it's really hard to foresee as you can never tell when a OL is reached its maximum potential or has room to improve, and I don't think it's any coincidence that just about every highly regarded OL has impact players to back them up at HB/QB etc. Obviously good blocking helps QB's and HB's but as does getting the ball out quickly and great vision help a OL's reputation, so you kinda have to look at more than just the OL to predict which units will emerge as league leading in quality.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2007, 09:13 AM
I cannot emphasize enough what a dominant offensive line can do for a team.

Nitschke-Hawk
09-14-2007, 12:51 PM
1. San Diego
2. New England

TitanAddict
09-14-2007, 04:36 PM
Tennessee is up and coming with two young stud Tackles: Michael Roos and David Stewart. Stewart in particular is impressive and has drawn rave reviews from Norm Chow.

Read Bucky Brooks' scouting reports for this week. He talks about how Jacob Bell, Kevin Mawae, and Benji Olson dominated Henderson and Stroud. We also have good, young backups (Daniel Loper, Eugene Amano, Leroy Harris). The Vikings have the best left side of the line in football, but I think Tennessee's is better overall.

I'm not sold on the Pats so much, but I like the Chargers and Cowboys lines.

But, I am the homer... I got ripped 2 weeks ago for arguing the Titans have a top 10 line. Stupid me...

keylime_5
09-15-2007, 09:19 AM
Philadelphia and San Diego's lines are killer.

PACKmanN
09-16-2007, 08:19 AM
The Vikings have the best left side in football, i think. Birk is still a top flight center, but i don't know much about Hicks/Cook/Johnson, if they can step up, i think they got at least a top 2 or three unit. Chargers have some potential.

If i were to pick a unit today it would probably be either the eagles or vikings.

The packers, browns, titans, and 49ers all have some talent that could really be in the running in a couple years.

Can I have some of what your smoking?

Xenos
09-17-2007, 12:11 PM
NE is the preeminent oline. At this moment, I am ashamed of San Diego's. WTF man. This is the one unit on our team that has stayed the same (player wise and coaching wise).

Twiddler
09-17-2007, 12:24 PM
Can I have some of what your smoking?

So they had a bad game and a half, it doesn't mean that our offensive line is doomed. Think about it, we have two bookend tackles at this point who still have some good years left and all three of our interior linemen are young and talented so it may take a little while to get in the groove. So while they may not be top of the line at this point in time, give them some time and they could become one of the better units in the league. It's all about patience.

Don Vito
09-17-2007, 12:27 PM
After watching last nights game I think its hard to take SD over NE. The Pats OL dominated SD's DL and the Pats DL dominated the Chargers OL.

DMWSackMachine
09-17-2007, 01:30 PM
That is because San Diego's line is not playing up to expectations right now.....on either side of the ball, really, but especially on offense.

McNeill has been caught lunging several times in the first two weeks. On the sack he gave up, his technique was awful. He seems like he's bending at the waist a lot more than I have seen him in the past. I don't know wtf is his problem, but if he keeps playing this way, the Chargers are in for a looooong season. Not only that, but they aren't getting much push in the run game, either. You can make excuses for it all day, saying that they have played two really good run defenses....but the bottom line is that they demolished lines that were just as good last year, including this very same NE line in the playoffs (better, actually, since NE had Seymour in that game), not to mention teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore. This line is where their problems start.

New England's line is very good, but they simply don't have the individual talent to be the best. There is not a single player on that line that is capable of dominating game in and game out. They are excellent as a unit, though, and seem to work great together. No way they are the best, though.

Geo
09-17-2007, 01:33 PM
After watching last nights game I think its hard to take SD over NE. The Pats OL dominated SD's DL and the Pats DL dominated the Chargers OL.
To be fair, it did seem that Jamal Williams, the ace NT of the Chargers, wasn't near his usual effectiveness thanks to his arm injury.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2007, 01:40 PM
That is because San Diego's line is not playing up to expectations right now.....on either side of the ball, really, but especially on offense.

McNeill has been caught lunging several times in the first two weeks. On the sack he gave up, his technique was awful. He seems like he's bending at the waist a lot more than I have seen him in the past. I don't know wtf is his problem, but if he keeps playing this way, the Chargers are in for a looooong season. Not only that, but they aren't getting much push in the run game, either. You can make excuses for it all day, saying that they have played two really good run defenses....but the bottom line is that they demolished lines that were just as good last year, including this very same NE line in the playoffs (better, actually, since NE had Seymour in that game), not to mention teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore. This line is where their problems start.

New England's line is very good, but they simply don't have the individual talent to be the best. There is not a single player on that line that is capable of dominating game in and game out. They are excellent as a unit, though, and seem to work great together. No way they are the best, though.


Light and Koppen are studs. Both can dominant games.

Theyre not more popular because of the silly rhetoric that the Patriots spew about how their "system" and "teamwork" wins games opposed to having talented players on their roster.

Sniper
09-17-2007, 01:46 PM
Philly's gotta be up there.I don't know who has a more dominant right side and Thomas/Herremans are solid on the left side. Jamaal Jackson is a stud

Don Vito
09-17-2007, 02:18 PM
To be fair, it did seem that Jamal Williams, the ace NT of the Chargers, wasn't near his usual effectiveness thanks to his arm injury.

Yea he looked hurt, Logan Mankins pancaked him the play after he started showing signs of being hurt. That probably didn't help. But hey, Richard Seymour was out for NE.

DMWSackMachine
09-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Light and Koppen are studs. Both can dominant games.

Theyre not more popular because of the silly rhetoric that the Patriots spew about how their "system" and "teamwork" wins games opposed to having talented players on their roster.

I'm not buying it.

Both are very good, but you don't see them man-handling anyone on a regular basis, and I have yet to hear or see any coach, player, analyst or anyone else giving them kudos as an elite level player. I don't think Light has ever even made a Pro Bowl (which, on a team like NE, would easily happen if he was kicking people's asses).

Not only that, but the reason you cite hasn't kept Rodney Harrison, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Dillon, Samuels, or Branch from getting vast amounts of credit in the past, deserving or not.

Like I said, that group is definitely top 10 or so.....and you might even make a case for top 5, but they just don't have the horses to be a serious candidate for #1.

BuckNaked
09-17-2007, 03:50 PM
Jake Long will be in 3 years mark it down

Way to make a bold prediction there buddy.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2007, 03:50 PM
I'm not buying it.

Both are very good, but you don't see them man-handling anyone on a regular basis, and I have yet to hear or see any coach, player, analyst or anyone else giving them kudos as an elite level player. I don't think Light has ever even made a Pro Bowl (which, on a team like NE, would easily happen if he was kicking people's asses).

Not only that, but the reason you cite hasn't kept Rodney Harrison, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Dillon, Samuels, or Branch from getting vast amounts of credit in the past, deserving or not.

Like I said, that group is definitely top 10 or so.....and you might even make a case for top 5, but they just don't have the horses to be a serious candidate for #1.

In today's league though, how many lines have 3+ PBers on it? I think theres alot of teams that have 2 PB caliber players and great role players that mesh well to form a solid line. None comes to mind that clearly stands out ahead of every other line in the league.

I think Light and Koppen have been getting the shaft. Sometimes, teams don't get certain players in the PB because it would be overkill for that team. In NE, the defense and Tom Brady get all the glory, so they get the PB votes. But that offensive line has lots of talent on it thats been shunned for a couple of years now. Look at Newman as an example on the Cowboys. He's never made the PB, but he's one of the best CBs in the game. I have him top 3.

My initial point wasn't that NE has established themselves as the clear #1, but moreso that Light and Koppen are great players who should be labeled as elite.

bearsfan_51
09-17-2007, 03:58 PM
Light is on the decline, if you watch him he's not as good as he was even 2-3 years ago. The rest of the line is great though.

As for the answer, it sure as hell isn't the Saints. Yikes. The Chargers have been looking pretty bad too. Even in the win against us they got handled by our D-line.

P-L
09-17-2007, 04:55 PM
Coming into the season a lot of people said that the Chargers had the best OL in all of football. Well, they've looked bad so far this season.

Geo
09-17-2007, 05:06 PM
I was one of those people, but my vote right now would go to the Patriots' offensive line.

DMWSackMachine
09-17-2007, 06:21 PM
In today's league though, how many lines have 3+ PBers on it? I think theres alot of teams that have 2 PB caliber players and great role players that mesh well to form a solid line. None comes to mind that clearly stands out ahead of every other line in the league.

I think Light and Koppen have been getting the shaft. Sometimes, teams don't get certain players in the PB because it would be overkill for that team. In NE, the defense and Tom Brady get all the glory, so they get the PB votes. But that offensive line has lots of talent on it thats been shunned for a couple of years now. Look at Newman as an example on the Cowboys. He's never made the PB, but he's one of the best CBs in the game. I have him top 3.

My initial point wasn't that NE has established themselves as the clear #1, but moreso that Light and Koppen are great players who should be labeled as elite.

Well, we definitely disagree on this one, then, cause there is no way, in my mind, that Light is anywhere near elite. Kopponen is a different story, as I spend more of my time watching Mankins (who is very good, and is the one guy on that line right now that has a chance to be a legit PB, imo) so I haven't paid a ton of attention to him, though it stands to reason that if he was regularly killing people, then he would almost certainly catch my eye in the process.

But I don't know how on earth you could say that Light is anywhere near elite. He's still good, don't get me wrong, but more in the good/very good range. He gets beat around the end on a regular basis, and we don't need to mention how bad Merriman made him look last night (on multiple plays, but especially on the sack). Yeah, Merriman is one of the best in the business, but if you are elite, that's where you prove your metal. He sure didn't do it last night.

Shiver
09-17-2007, 06:26 PM
Mankins will definitely make the pro-bowl this year; Will Shields' retirement opened up a slot that hasn't been available for more than a decade.

Don Vito
09-17-2007, 07:53 PM
Mankins was impressive in his second season last year, but towards the end of last year and the beginning of this seasons he has been almost dominant. Dan Koppen and Steve Neal are great too, with Matt Light being solid. Nick Kaczur was blown up by Merriman a few times last night at RT, Ryan O'Callaghan could see some time at RT (he actually played som tight end last night).

In all fairness, the Chargers do have a great young OL. They had an off night which will happen.

megansett56BC
09-17-2007, 08:30 PM
light's on the decline, mankins is already our best linemen IMO. i agree they don't have a lot of individual but they play extremely cohesively as a unit. that shouldn't exclude them from being the best if they are currently playing the best, which considering the only player to sack brady, albeit twice, has been on steroids, i'm willing to call that playing the best right now.

the chiefs had the best collection of linemen and they played that way as a unit. i don't think any of these lines that have the most "talent" are necessarily playing like they do.

PACKmanN
09-17-2007, 09:28 PM
So they had a bad game and a half, it doesn't mean that our offensive line is doomed. Think about it, we have two bookend tackles at this point who still have some good years left and all three of our interior linemen are young and talented so it may take a little while to get in the groove. So while they may not be top of the line at this point in time, give them some time and they could become one of the better units in the league. It's all about patience.

Do you think that Cifton and Taucher are good OT in a ZBS? you are out of your mind. We have the talent yes but I'm wondering if we have the right coaches for the talent.

remix 6
09-17-2007, 09:33 PM
Mankins is a top 5 guard easily imo
Light not as good as 2-3 years ago? his best play has been since late last season. he used to get help from Graham just about every play. he was overrated but hes getting there slowly.

Kaczur is solid and has a lot of potential imo but a little inconsistent. Neal is solid, nothing special besides on the screens

Koppen is a top 5 center, hes a technician who makes the calls on the line and BB loves him.

Ranking our OL players
1. Mankins
2. Koppen
3. Light
4. Neal
5. Kaczur( i think he can be better but hes inconsistent.)

^thats how i rank our starters in order