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d34ng3l021
09-17-2007, 09:41 PM
We have given up 13 sacks already. I think Saints gave up 16 in the WHOLE season.

We need to revamp this OL. Its going to take time for the players to get used to the new scheme, but our LT will still be a glaring hole.

What say you to taking Sam Baker or Jake Long in the first, and then trading back into the first and taking Matt Ryan. I am liking that scenario ALOT.

Shiver
09-17-2007, 10:19 PM
Remember that QB plays a large role in sack totals. For example the Texans have only given up two sacks thus far under Schaub, and Carr was getting killed routinely. Same thing with Romo and Bledsoe in Dallas. Now that doesn't mean I'm opposed to taking Sam Baker, I just wanted to clarify that issue.

iloxygenil
09-17-2007, 11:49 PM
Round 1: Sam Baker
Round 2: Jonathan Stewart
Round 2: Matt Ryan

Winner...

Shiver
09-18-2007, 01:24 AM
I highly doubt Stewart and Ryan are there in the 2nd round.

Green Bay Scat
09-18-2007, 01:30 AM
from how people act about Colt, just replace Colt and Ryan, and i can see that happin

d34ng3l021
09-18-2007, 02:56 AM
Yeah I know what you mean Shiver. As bad as Harrington is, we have always had this problem, even with one of the most elusive QBs in NFL history. I think it requires fixing now.

I am not a big fan of Colt. Dont like him much. I might even be really pissed if we draft him. Maybe.

thefalconer
09-18-2007, 04:31 AM
colt cant be the face of our offense. i just dont see him succeeding in the bigs.

Shiver
09-18-2007, 01:38 PM
I think Atlanta should use their two first round picks to move up into the first for a QB. Atlanta should do what Cleveland did last year, take the franchise LT and then get the QB that falls farther than expected.

thefalconer
09-18-2007, 01:57 PM
yeah i'm thinking that'll be the best case scenario for us. we take a long or baker and maybe in the 'teens or early twenties ryan will be waiting there for us.

i know its all speculation now, but what teams will be looking to draft a qb early?

D-Rod
09-18-2007, 02:07 PM
I think Atlanta should use their two first round picks to move up into the first for a QB. Atlanta should do what Cleveland did last year, take the franchise LT and then get the QB that falls farther than expected.

I agree with that in theory, but in practice I think that if you NEED a QB, then you take the best one you can get your hands on. There's enough risk of a QB busting without adding to that by taking whoever other teams don't want...

I agree with trading up, though. Just not for a QB. I think we should take the best QB with our first pick, then potentially trade up for the LT we want. There's a clearly defined top 2 with the tackles, but both have arguable weaknesses - PB for Long, RB for Baker. Then there are 3 - 5 (depending on juniors) guys who could go mid 1st to high 2nd, depending on this season. We'd have more choice of the guy we want, and less risk of getting sloppy seconds, if we take a LT than a QB with that trade-up pick, IMO.

D-Rod
09-18-2007, 02:54 PM
yeah i'm thinking that'll be the best case scenario for us. we take a long or baker and maybe in the 'teens or early twenties ryan will be waiting there for us.

i know its all speculation now, but what teams will be looking to draft a qb early?

There aren't actually too many teams who you'd expect to be looking for a QB right now, but you can split them into five groups.

Teams with a star QB already, won't take a QB unless career ending injury:
Colts, Pats, Saints, Rams, Steelers, Bengals, Giants (Eli's there for a while, whatever), Cowboys (Romo will get locked up) - 8/32

Teams which have a future QB, so will not take one whatever happens:
Titans, Cardinals, 49ers, Raiders, Browns, Broncos, Chargers, Texans (ours!), Redskins, Packers - 10/32

Teams with veterans and 1st day QBs they are unlikely to bypass immediately:
Eagles, Jets, Vikings, Lions, Chiefs (should give Croyle one more year) - 5/32

Teams with current veteran, but might look to upgrade:
Bears, Panthers, Seahawks, Jaguars, Bills - 5/32

Teams likely to be looking for new QB:
Bucs, Ravens, Dolphins, FALCONS - 4/32

The last two groups are fairly fluctuating - but in short, there could be as many as 9 teams (maybe 10) who'd consider a QB in the 1st, and four teams who really need to be looking QB first up.

It's good news, because of those 10 teams only the Bucs and Dolphins are as bad as we are this year, and it could be argued that we are the worst of the lot. Therefore we should at least get our pick of the QBs, even if outside of the top 5.

Shiver
09-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Actually I think the Dolphins have their QB of the future. They took John Beck in round two and bypassed Brady Quinn because they had Beck higher on their board.

D-Rod
09-18-2007, 04:35 PM
Actually I think the Dolphins have their QB of the future. They took John Beck in round two and bypassed Brady Quinn because they had Beck higher on their board.

Ah yes, forgot about him.

Well, let's hope we can win some games, since it looks like we could be out of the top-5 and still get our first choice QB...

That said, are there 5 teams looking worse than us at the moment? Yikes.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Yeah I know what you mean Shiver. As bad as Harrington is, we have always had this problem, even with one of the most elusive QBs in NFL history. I think it requires fixing now.

I am not a big fan of Colt. Dont like him much. I might even be really pissed if we draft him. Maybe.


To add into what Shiver said, again that is still on the QB. I'm not saying our line is great or anything, but it's very tough for a offensive lineman when your QB is moving around in the pocket. The defender can see where the quaterback is going, and make a move the lineman isn't expecting to get by him and to the QB. And of course the OL really has no idea where the QB is.

Shiver
09-18-2007, 05:16 PM
Harrington is really out of his comfort zone. He's holding on to the ball because he doesn't want to throw interceptions. As Ron Jaworski points out the QB needs to hit his third, fifth and seventh step and throw immediately upon reaching his proper depth. Harrington is not doing that. It doesn't help that the O-Line is still adjusting to the new protection schemes and you have two rookies on the left side.

d34ng3l021
09-18-2007, 06:00 PM
To add into what Shiver said, again that is still on the QB. I'm not saying our line is great or anything, but it's very tough for a offensive lineman when your QB is moving around in the pocket. The defender can see where the quaterback is going, and make a move the lineman isn't expecting to get by him and to the QB. And of course the OL really has no idea where the QB is.


Yeah definetly. But in my opinion, theres alot of blame that goes to our OL.

Shiver
09-18-2007, 06:21 PM
I don't think anyone should escape blame. Both the O-Line and the QB position need to be addressed.

thefalconer
09-18-2007, 07:12 PM
it alls go down to who the falcons FO values and think is more imperative for the offense. personally i think the OLine is ridiculously underrated. the trenches are what makes or breaks an offense. we can draft the best qb with a quick release but after getting nfl sacks, he's gonna be nothing. the run game is heavily dependent on the o-line too so i think, for the good of the offense, make an unsexy pick and go with a long or baker even if that means passing on a sexy mcfadden and/or woodson.

Shiver
09-18-2007, 07:15 PM
It depends where the team picks as well. There is a lot more pressure to take a franchise QB with the first pick than say the fourth pick.

iloxygenil
09-18-2007, 08:18 PM
For sure...there will be a TON of pressure on us to take Brian Brohm if he's on the board.

d34ng3l021
09-18-2007, 08:53 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7945556871998346256&q=joey+harrington&total=34&start=20&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

Yeah. We need a QB. Harrington sucks.

falconsrule
09-18-2007, 09:25 PM
If we do end up with a top 3 pick. Do you guys think Sam Baker is worth taking over Woodson,McFadden,or Dorsey?.The knock on Sam Baker is that he really dont have a mean streak and he is weak in the running game.Im all for drafting a LT next year but I really dont think its a big drop off with Sam Baker and Barry Richardson.

d34ng3l021
09-18-2007, 09:52 PM
We wont pass over Woodson. I highly doubt it. Especially at top3. I dont think Baker is a good enough talent to be taken top3.

D-Rod
09-19-2007, 04:59 AM
Looking at that very depressing montage, I'd place blame thus:

1: Harrington holding on too long... possibly no open receivers, but in that case should have thrown it away.

2. All out blitz right side. Was obvious, but O-line didn't shift to pick everyone up. Fault in recognition, partly on O-line as a whole, partly on Harrington for not seeing obvious blitz and getting ready for hot route.

3. Blalock got pushed way back into the pocket, flushed out Harrington. Still should have got rid off the ball after escaping pocket. Also had White wide open on the slant immediately, looked at him but just didn't throw the ball. Sack due to rookie mistake and poor QB play.

4. Basically a coverage sack, no one was open, but Harrington had time to throw it away. Sack eventually due to Blalock being beaten by a Stroud stunt. Again, rookie mistake and slightly poor QB play.

5. Again, overload blitz on right side. Mughelli went out on a little dump route, but Harrington couldn't get back to him. Weiner was beaten on the outside, after being a little late to get to his man. Clearly recognition problems again, on both O-line and Harrington.

6. 3rd and long, behind in the game, everyone on the blitz. No one's fault really - I'd call it a situational sack. Maybe Harrington should have got it away, but he didn't have much time.

7. Same as the 6th sack, though this time McClure just missed the linebacker coming through.

So, conclusions.

The only time an O-lineman was flat out beat was Blalock, twice, and that's just down to rookie mistakes, it's going to happen. He's already the start of the rebuilding project.

Foster had a very good game, I thought. He was semi-beaten late in the game, on that hold, but he actually had forced the guy far enough around. It was the kind of hold which you'll get away with more often than not... overall, I was impressed, and he got good push in the run game.

As for the right side of our O-line, they were really tested when JAX repeatedly sent two linebackers over their side. They struggled a little on recognition, but didn't really get beaten individually. There's a not a lot you can do when you have each have two guys to block.

On the blitzes, I have to put the blame on Harrington or McClure. McClure because I think he's the guy assigned to make protection calls, but mostly on Harrington, because it was SO obvious that the blitz was coming, and he did nothing about it, just sat there and took sack. At least once, the easy slant to Roddy was wide open.

As Petrino hinted, Harrington just looked scared. As I said at the start of the season, Harrington has the tools, but developed the mentality of a loser while in Detroit. I had hoped that a new start might help him. Apparently not.

The sooner we can get Leftwich up to speed, the better. Leftwich has some flaws in footwork and delivery, but he has never been accused of having a loser's mentality. He'll get the ball out on the blitz. This is almost certainly a lost year, but our draft strategy might change if Leftwich shows some promise...

D-Rod
09-19-2007, 05:09 AM
So, looking at improving the O-line this year.

Our right side is set, that's a fact. They're not great, but they're not bad. They'll be better in the run game once they've had a full year to adjust, and they've generally been individually solid in pass protection. A few recognition problems, but that should also get better as they adjust to the scheme.

McClure is undersized, no doubt, so that's a potential area of upgrade if the value is there, but he is generally well thought of, so I'd expect that he'll be with us a couple of years longer, especially given the contract extension.

Blalock has stuggled early, no doubt, or at least been inconsistent. But he's our long-term future at LG, so we just have to accept that his rookie year might be tough. That said, he won't face a tougher DT pairing than MIN and JAX.

Now, LT is where it gets interesting. Gandy is done, simple. He wasn't actually that bad in the first game, but he's certainly done after this year. Now, Foster played rather well on Sunday. I actually hope that Gandy misses a significant chunk of time this year, and we get to see Foster start for most ot the year. That would help to give us a read on whether he has serious starting potential. Remember, Foster was dominant at college, but suffered a couple of serious injuries which destroyed his draft stock. I'm not ready to anoint Foster just yet, don't get me wrong, but I'm keen to see how he does over the rest of the season.

However, even if he plays very well, I'd be keen to draft a guy like Richardson/Cherilus in the 2nd, who could arguably play either LT or RT. Then we can let the rookie compete with Foster to start at LT, and whoever loses is groomed to fill in for Weiner, probably in 2010.

Then we'd have a reasonably veteran line to protect our new QB, after a year or two of holding the clipboard.

PACKmanN
09-27-2007, 08:02 PM
1. Andre Woodson QB- He has all the tools in the world and played in an ok o-line, he knowns when to release the ball.

2a. Barry Richardson LT- He reminds alot like McNeil and this is the first stage of building the o-line.

2b. Tony Hills RT- Samething I said about Richardson, the first stage of building the line.

3. Yvenson Bernard RB- Once you get your QB, LT, and RT of the future its time to get your future running back, I know Jerious Norwood the future but until Andre Woodson grows as an NFL QB it would be nice to have a 2 back system for him.

I think that would be a nice first day draft for you guys. You guys get your future with Richardson, Hills, Blalock, and Forney.

BamaFalcon59
09-27-2007, 09:53 PM
We don't need a RT too bad in comparison to NT, SS, MLB, and maybe WR.

iloxygenil
09-28-2007, 12:00 AM
I like that draft...but I'd love to have MLB / NT...

D-Rod
09-28-2007, 08:57 AM
Quite right. If Harrington continues to play well, we can afford to draft a developmental QB, and get the guy who will make our defense dominant for years.

There's nothing I hate more than watching other teams run on us in the second half. It's been a problem for three years. After this draft, it will stop.

1: Glenn Dorsey DT (strong and quick enough to play either spot)
2a: Barry Richardson LT
2b: Josh Barrett SS (thumping safety)
3: Dennis Dixon QB (this guy is starting to show up, has the mobility to fully exploit Petrino's scheme, has a great arm, and will have a couple of years of the best QB tutelage money can buy)
4: Ben Moffitt MLB (Nicholas' old partner from USF, and quality)

falconsrule
09-28-2007, 07:04 PM
I really like your draft D-Rod. I have Dorsey as one of my "sure picks" along with McFadden,Phillips and Woodson but why draft another SS while we have Darrin Stone?

thefalconer
09-28-2007, 10:20 PM
i really dont understand this obsession with darren stone. sure he has great numbers, can jump over cars, can tackle hard in preseason games but will that translate similarly in important games? i really havent seen enough of him to declare him our ss for the future.

flrybranch
10-01-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't see a SS that early.

Stone could be groomed, but Jimmy looks to be our SS of the future. He looks as lost as Gilligan in coverage, but plays very well close to the line. If Crockers improvement holds then move Jimmy over to SS.

scar988
10-01-2007, 07:42 PM
We don't need a RT too bad in comparison to NT, SS, MLB, and maybe WR.
no WR isn't a need. especially after the past 2 weeks showing us what Jenkins and White are made of.

D-Rod
10-02-2007, 12:36 PM
Not to mention Robinson. And Horn - though I do wonder when he's going to start getting antsy about not getting the ball. Hopefully he's happy to play mentor and pocket his hefty cheque.

I can't see us drafting a WR unless there's ridiculous value available at some point.

iloxygenil
10-02-2007, 12:42 PM
That's the only way we'll go WR now I think. These guys have been coached up to their ability and it's making a HUGE difference.