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View Full Version : The difference between Ohio State's 06 defense, and the 07 defense...


gstock05
09-19-2007, 11:40 AM
So pretty much everyone on here has seen me hyping this 2007 defense. It's your opinion to agree or disagree with me, but I figured i'd at least point out the difference between the 2006 defense which was very overrated and torn apart by Florida, and the 2007 defense which will carry this team to a very good record and possibly a BCS bowl game (against admittedly inferior big 10 opponents this year.)


There were two key weaknesses in the 2006 defense that got exploited by Michigan and Florida.

1. Anderson Russel got injured against Iowa and Jamario Oneal had to step in at safety.

2. Antonio Smith was a starting cornerback. (good player, but short and relatively unathletic.)

Because of this the defense had to drop more people into coverage and play a soft zone style which created lots of turnovers, but also allowed teams to run the ball and throw short passes across the middle way too easily.


The difference this year is .....

Donald Washington is playing like an all american, and Anderson Russel will be a big time name before he graduates/leaves OSU.

OSU is blitzing very often and dropping Washington and Jenkins into single coverage oftenly, yet opposing teams are still having trouble passing vs. these two. In fact, while James Laurinaitis won the national awards for the big 10 player of the week vs. Washington, Donald Washington won Ohio State's defensive player of the week after film was watched. Although after grading out as a cornerback at 96%, thats to be expected.


OSU may not be flashy, or of the overall team calibre of USC or LSU, dont count the Buckeyes out this year at all. This team really does share a resemblance to the 2002 squad who won it all when nobody was expecting. Not flashy, but we get the job done.

keylime_5
09-19-2007, 12:09 PM
The only teams who can say they have a defense as good as us this year are USC and LSU. This year's unit is unbelievable, probably the best we've had under Tressel and since maybe the Woody years.

Turtlepower
09-19-2007, 12:10 PM
The only teams who can say they have a defense as good as us this year are USC and LSU. This year's unit is unbelievable, probably the best we've had under Tressel and since maybe the Woody years.

Techinacally, Arizona State has a better defense than USC and 9th in the country. =D

NittanyLion2k7
09-19-2007, 01:05 PM
The only teams who can say they have a defense as good as us this year are USC and LSU. This year's unit is unbelievable, probably the best we've had under Tressel and since maybe the Woody years.

Penn State has a better defense. We have a better secondary, better LB corps. OSU might have a slightly better D Line. But overall, I think PSU has a better defense.

gstock05
09-19-2007, 01:30 PM
Penn State has a better defense. We have a better secondary, better LB corps. OSU might have a slightly better D Line. But overall, I think PSU has a better defense.

I guess we'll find out come our match up in happy valley.

PSU no doubt has a great unit this year.

keylime_5
09-19-2007, 01:38 PM
Penn State has a better defense. We have a better secondary, better LB corps. OSU might have a slightly better D Line. But overall, I think PSU has a better defense.

OSU has the best secondary they've had under Tressell. Anderson Russell and Malcolm Jenkins are gonna be 1st team all big ten; Donald Washington is a great underated player who is a future all conference selection with NFL potential. Kurt Coleman is my favorite Buckeye in the secondary, a ballhawk who hits like a truck despite his 187-lb. frame. James Laurinaitis is the best MLB in college fb and a 1st team all american. Marcus Freeman, Larry Grant, Ross Homan, Thaddeus Gibson, and Austin Spitler give Ohio State the BEST and deepest linebacker core in the Big Ten; 2nd best LB unit in the country behind USC's unreal group. Don't give me this Penn State junk, they have a nice defense, probably one of the 5 best there is and I like their style, but OSU's is much faster and still stouter against the run.

Should be a heck of a contest when they meet next month but even if you call the LBs and DBs a push, the D-Line puts OSU over the top.

Sniper
09-19-2007, 01:43 PM
Penn State has a better defense. We have a better secondary, better LB corps. OSU might have a slightly better D Line. But overall, I think PSU has a better defense.

And Nit slides in with the obligatory LOLZ PSU RULEZ comment. Love OSU's D, best all-around in the BIG 10 and top 5-10 in the country

BrownsTown
09-19-2007, 02:26 PM
Penn State has a better defense. We have a better secondary, better LB corps. OSU might have a slightly better D Line. But overall, I think PSU has a better defense.

Wow, can you be more of a homer?

NittanyLion2k7
09-19-2007, 02:29 PM
OSU has the best secondary they've had under Tressell. Anderson Russell and Malcolm Jenkins are gonna be 1st team all big ten; Donald Washington is a great underated player who is a future all conference selection with NFL potential. Kurt Coleman is my favorite Buckeye in the secondary, a ballhawk who hits like a truck despite his 187-lb. frame. James Laurinaitis is the best MLB in college fb and a 1st team all american. Marcus Freeman, Larry Grant, Ross Homan, Thaddeus Gibson, and Austin Spitler give Ohio State the BEST and deepest linebacker core in the Big Ten; 2nd best LB unit in the country behind USC's unreal group. Don't give me this Penn State junk, they have a nice defense, probably one of the 5 best there is and I like their style, but OSU's is much faster and still stouter against the run.

Should be a heck of a contest when they meet next month but even if you call the LBs and DBs a push, the D-Line puts OSU over the top.

All you did was list names. I've looked at those names and I'm not impressed.

DAn Connor will give James L a run for his money as far as best MLB. Marcus Freeman and LArry Grant are nobodies. Sean Lee had a more productive year than pretty much the both of them combined. As for Ross Homan and Thaddeus Gibson they are young players who haven't proven anything. If you want to talk guys who were ranked high and haven't played, PSU has a boatload.

Navorro Bowman, Bani Bdayu, Chris Colasanti, Nathan Stupar, Andrew Dailey are all waiting in the wings.

As for the secondary, PSU clearly has a better one. Justin King is arguably the best cover corner in the Big Ten shutting down TEd Ginn since his true freshman year. AJ Wallace was the # 1 corner the year after that. (If you forget that Justin King was the # 1 corner in 05) Tony Davis is a 2 year starter at the very least, then there's the best safety in the Big Ten, Anthony Scirrotto. All OSU has is Malcolm Jenkins and he isn't even that good, I saw him get burned for a TD vs. Washington.

How can anyone with a straight face say OSU has a better secondary?

I will say that your D Line is better, but it's not going to make that defense a better overall one than Penn State.

NittanyLion2k7
09-19-2007, 02:30 PM
Wow, can you be more of a homer?

No, can you? Look me in the eye and say your LB and Secondary is better. They're not. At the best your LB core pushes, but your Secondary is weak. Theres no talent back there and no experience. Penn State is returning 3 starters and fielding 2 Rivals.com # 1 CB's, and a First Team ALL Big Ten safety who is arguably the best in the conference.

Who are you starting? Malcolm Jenkins and a bunch of nobodies with very litttle game experience. Lets be reasonable now.

keylime_5
09-19-2007, 02:43 PM
Jenkins didn't get burned for a TD vs. Washington, Coleman was out of position on that play. Jenkins is gonna be 1st team all big ten and all american, possibly the Thorpe winner, and the first corner taken next April. Anderson Russell has made plays and is the next Donte Whitner. Coleman is a beast, ballhawk who is always around the tackle if not making it. The best secondary is not about who has the biggest names, it's about the best quality of play and OSU's secondary is second to none this year in terms of smarts, physicality, speed, and playmaking ability. Best DB unit we've had under Tressel which is saying a lot considering we had Mike Doss, Donnie Nickey, Will Allen, Chris Gamble, Dustin Fox, Ashton Youboty, Donte Whitner, and Nate Salley.

Larry Grant and Marcus Freeman are far from nobodies. Two of the most athletic LBs in the conference who are incredible in pass defense (for college backers anyways). Grant played out of his mind vs. Akron and penetrates the LOS on run plays. Homan looks like he is gonna be the next future 1st team All American Buckeye LB (keep it up with Wilhelm, Hawk, and JL). He plays most of the game and no longer falls under the category of unproven, the only thing stopping him from getting known in each household is the fact that Laurinaitis is keeping him on the bench.

OSU has a 5 star secondary and LB unit. The D-Line still has to be tested against Wisconsin, PSU, and Michigan before I can say they are more than a 4 star group so to speak, but Doug Worthington and Cameron Heyward lead what has been an extremely dominating unit thus far. I wonder how many first downs NWestern will (or should I say won't) get against us this weekend.

OSU had the nation's best scoring defense last year, and are about 10 times better this year. They'll probably finish in the top 5 nationally in both scoring and total D. Pass defense on OSU is out of this world with Vern Gholston, Robert Rose, and company coming at the QB with a stellar secondary defending.

Sniper
09-19-2007, 03:03 PM
All you did was list names. I've looked at those names and I'm not impressed.

DAn Connor will give James L a run for his money as far as best MLB. Marcus Freeman and LArry Grant are nobodies. Sean Lee had a more productive year than pretty much the both of them combined. As for Ross Homan and Thaddeus Gibson they are young players who haven't proven anything. If you want to talk guys who were ranked high and haven't played, PSU has a boatload.

Connor is better than Laurinaitis, for sure. Freeman and Grant are very good linebackers and you're vastly underrating them.

As for the secondary, PSU clearly has a better one. Justin King is arguably the best cover corner in the Big Ten shutting down TEd Ginn since his true freshman year. AJ Wallace was the # 1 corner the year after that. (If you forget that Justin King was the # 1 corner in 05) Tony Davis is a 2 year starter at the very least, then there's the best safety in the Big Ten, Anthony Scirrotto. All OSU has is Malcolm Jenkins and he isn't even that good, I saw him get burned for a TD vs. Washington.

I saw Mario Manningham toast Justin King for a touchdown two years ago as King fell on his face keeping up with Rio. Does that mean King sucks? No, every corner has times where they screw up.

How can anyone with a straight face say OSU has a better secondary?

I gotta go with NL2K7 on this one. PSU's got King, Wallace, Scirroto. OSU's got unproven guys.

I will say that your D Line is better, but it's not going to make that defense a better overall one than Penn State.
Considering how much better OSU's DL is than PSU's, I say it could single handedly make it better.


Left some comments

T.Smith
09-19-2007, 05:19 PM
As for the secondary, PSU clearly has a better one. Justin King is arguably the best cover corner in the Big Ten shutting down TEd Ginn since his true freshman year. AJ Wallace was the # 1 corner the year after that. (If you forget that Justin King was the # 1 corner in 05) Tony Davis is a 2 year starter at the very least, then there's the best safety in the Big Ten, Anthony Scirrotto. All OSU has is Malcolm Jenkins and he isn't even that good, I saw him get burned for a TD vs. Washington.

How can anyone with a straight face say OSU has a better secondary?


LMAO no you didn't because it didn't happen, Malcolm Jenkins was playing a zone qb spy on that play. Just because the Announcers messed up the name on the play doesn't mean it happened bud. Malcolm Jenkins is the best CB in the country, he is the most physical CB college has seen in the last 5 or so year, and is a complete lockdown CB. QB refuse to throw it his way, just watch an OSU game, Hell we have moved him to Safety on a few plays to give him a chance to make plays on the ball. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he will be the 1st CB taken. King is good no doubt but he isn't as good as Malcolm.

Sniper
09-19-2007, 06:40 PM
[iMalcolm Jenkins is the best CB in the country.

Malcolm Jenkins isn't even the best corner in the conference. Jack Ikegwuonu is better than him. Others across the country that are better than Jenkins include VT's Brandon Flowers, Arizona's Antoine Cason, possibly Aqib Talib of Kansas, and DaJuan Tribble of BC.

Green Bay Scat
09-19-2007, 06:43 PM
he might not even be the best Jenkins lol


also, Pass Break Ups are one of the most underrated stats, id take someone who knocks down a pass than tackle the guy after he catches it


also Sniper thanks for the EB love

BrownsTown
09-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Malcolm Jenkins isn't even the best corner in the conference. Jack Ikegwuonu is better than him. Others across the country that are better than Jenkins include VT's Brandon Flowers, Arizona's Antoine Cason, possibly Aqib Talib of Kansas, and DaJuan Tribble of BC.

Yea...I can't argue with any of those but you can't say Jenkins doesn't belong in the group with those guys. And he's still getting better.

Sniper
09-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Yea...I can't argue with any of those but you can't say Jenkins doesn't belong in the group with those guys. And he's still getting better.

I know he belongs there, along with King.

gstock05
09-19-2007, 09:17 PM
Sniper, on what basis are you rating those guys such as Cason, Flowers, Talib, ahead of Jenkins.

Who have they shut down? What are their big games they've played?

Just asking. I remember seeing Flowers getting abused pretty bad vs. LSU.

I haven't watched enough of Cason to validate a legit opinion on him, but I don't know of the hype on him.

Jack Ikegwuonu got scorched by Manningham last year multiple times.


Malcolm Jenkins shut down Samardzija, Limas Sweed, Manningham (before you mention that he burned jenkins, understand that Antonio Smith was gaurding Mario. After they switched... Manningham didnt do squat, and coincidentally, Arrington had a big game), Derrick Williams, James Hardy... the list goes on.

In any case, the only case you can make against Malcolm is the florida game, but most of the yards were underneath where the linebackers were caught out of position and the defensive backs were playing zone coverage.



I will admit however, Justin King is as good as Malcolm is. Only thing is he isn't the hitter/physical guy jenkins is, but he might be slightly faster so that makes things pretty much even.

gstock05
09-19-2007, 09:19 PM
Secondly, Nittany, if you are going to base a defense's ability on recruiting rankings, then I suppose you guys might win.

However, there are a few guys on this defense that aren't house names yet, but will be by the end of the season. I'm sure there will be a few for PSU as well, but basing a defense's ability off recruiting rankings and a biased opinion is silly.


In either case, we don't know whether the Lions, Buckeyes, or even Trojans and Tigers have as dominant defenses until they face real tests. That of which none of these defenses (except arguably USC Nebraska) can say they have.

keylime_5
09-19-2007, 09:56 PM
Jenkins is gonna be drafted higher than all those guys, is gonna be a better pro, and is gonna be 1st team all american this year, so think what you want, I won't try and argue opinions here, but that's what it's gonna be.

P-L
09-19-2007, 10:01 PM
Jack Ikegwuonu got scorched by Manningham last year multiple times.

If by Jack Ikegwuonu you mean Allen Langford, then yeah, you're right. Both of Mario's TD in that game were on Allen Langford. Jack only gave up a few catches to Mario.

HoopsDemon12
09-19-2007, 10:12 PM
All you did was list names. I've looked at those names and I'm not impressed.

DAn Connor will give James L a run for his money as far as best MLB. Marcus Freeman and LArry Grant are nobodies. Sean Lee had a more productive year than pretty much the both of them combined. As for Ross Homan and Thaddeus Gibson they are young players who haven't proven anything. If you want to talk guys who were ranked high and haven't played, PSU has a boatload.

Navorro Bowman, Bani Bdayu, Chris Colasanti, Nathan Stupar, Andrew Dailey are all waiting in the wings.

As for the secondary, PSU clearly has a better one. Justin King is arguably the best cover corner in the Big Ten shutting down TEd Ginn since his true freshman year. AJ Wallace was the # 1 corner the year after that. (If you forget that Justin King was the # 1 corner in 05) Tony Davis is a 2 year starter at the very least, then there's the best safety in the Big Ten, Anthony Scirrotto. All OSU has is Malcolm Jenkins and he isn't even that good, I saw him get burned for a TD vs. Washington.

How can anyone with a straight face say OSU has a better secondary?

I will say that your D Line is better, but it's not going to make that defense a better overall one than Penn State.

Bani Bdayu will be a beast when he gets playing time jsut watch.. i love this kid

SuperKevin
09-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Bani Bdayu will be a beast when he gets playing time jsut watch.. i love this kid

He went to my high school's rival high school, Quinc Orchard

Sniper
09-19-2007, 11:20 PM
Jenkins is gonna be drafted higher than all those guys, is gonna be a better pro, and is gonna be 1st team all american this year, so think what you want, I won't try and argue opinions here, but that's what it's gonna be.

Thanks for the indepth analysis. You sure seem to have a crystal ball there. Tell me his career stats in the NFL too please, I want to hear another fearless and non-homeristic prediction.

Sniper
09-19-2007, 11:23 PM
Sniper, on what basis are you rating those guys such as Cason, Flowers, Talib, ahead of Jenkins.
Watching them play?

Who have they shut down? What are their big games they've played?

Just asking. I remember seeing Flowers getting abused pretty bad vs. LSU.
The entire VT team got abused. They got no pass rush, had nothing going on.

Jack Ikegwuonu got scorched by Manningham last year multiple times.

Like P-L said, that would be Langford.


Malcolm Jenkins shut down Samardzija, Limas Sweed, Manningham (before you mention that he burned jenkins, understand that Antonio Smith was gaurding Mario. After they switched... Manningham didnt do squat, and coincidentally, Arrington had a big game), Derrick Williams, James Hardy... the list goes on.

In any case, the only case you can make against Malcolm is the florida game, but most of the yards were underneath where the linebackers were caught out of position and the defensive backs were playing zone coverage.



I will admit however, Justin King is as good as Malcolm is. Only thing is he isn't the hitter/physical guy jenkins is, but he might be slightly faster so that makes things pretty much even.


Left some comments. I prefer Ikegwuonu, King, Flowers, Tribble, and Cason to Jenkins. I think they're better corners. It's also a lot easier as a corner to look good when you get a nice pass rush like OSU does. For God's sake people forgot how atrocious Morgan Trent for a while with the d-line Michigan had last year.

T.Smith
09-20-2007, 08:12 PM
Left some comments. I prefer Ikegwuonu, King, Flowers, Tribble, and Cason to Jenkins. I think they're better corners. It's also a lot easier as a corner to look good when you get a nice pass rush like OSU does. For God's sake people forgot how atrocious Morgan Trent for a while with the d-line Michigan had last year.

Lol you can think all you want but I will bet anything that the nfl scouts will agree with me.

Sniper
09-20-2007, 08:23 PM
Lol you can think all you want but I will bet anything that the nfl scouts will agree with me.

Yes, because your opinion isn't biased at all.

gstock05
09-21-2007, 12:14 AM
Yes, because your opinion isn't biased at all.

Chris Gamble was #31 overall I believe when he was drafted, and was projected in the top 25.

Malcolm Jenkins is a lot better than Chris Gamble. Why is that so hard to swallow that he'll be a top rated cornerback? Now I dont know when the other guys will be selected and if that will potentially bump Malcolm down, but he's definitely 1st round talent...

Turtlepower
09-21-2007, 12:18 AM
Chris Gamble was #31 overall I believe when he was drafted, and was projected in the top 25.

Malcolm Jenkins is a lot better than Chris Gamble. Why is that so hard to swallow that he'll be a top rated cornerback? Now I dont know when the other guys will be selected and if that will potentially bump Malcolm down, but he's definitely 1st round talent...

I feel as though you should never take a CB in the top-15. Way too many busts or plain underachievers.

Sniper
09-21-2007, 06:51 AM
Chris Gamble was #31 overall I believe when he was drafted, and was projected in the top 25.

Malcolm Jenkins is a lot better than Chris Gamble. Why is that so hard to swallow that he'll be a top rated cornerback? Now I dont know when the other guys will be selected and if that will potentially bump Malcolm down, but he's definitely 1st round talent...

I know Malcolm is first round talent. Find where I said he isn't. There's a lot of talent at corner this year if the juniors come out. King, Ikegwuonu, Jenkins, Flowers, Macho Harris etc.... I just don't see Jenkins as the first CB off the board