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View Full Version : Favre, Favre, Favre!!!


someone447
09-23-2007, 03:02 PM
He ties Marino's record with the go ahead touchdown with 2 minutes left in the game!!!

All hail Lord Favre.

neko4
09-23-2007, 03:05 PM
Sorry skins fans, im gonna change yalls song for a sec.
Hail to Lord Favre
Hail victory
He will kick your butt
All hail lord Favre

someone447
09-23-2007, 03:07 PM
If Favre keeps playing like he has this year he might be back for another year, we can only hope!!!

P-L
09-23-2007, 03:12 PM
Keep this thread around, a new one isn't need if he breaks the record next week.

neko4
09-23-2007, 03:13 PM
Keep this thread around, a new one isn't need if he breaks the record next week.
yeah, we probably shoulda used the last one

PoopSandwich
09-23-2007, 03:16 PM
All hail Lord Favre

Vince Lombardi
09-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Awesome game today! Congrats to Favre even though he could care less about these records. He's playing really well this year and avoiding the stupid mistakes. Let's keep it going!

Boston
09-23-2007, 03:22 PM
That was one of the most exciting TD passes I've seen in a long time.

someone447
09-23-2007, 03:25 PM
Awesome game today! Congrats to Favre even though he could care less about these records. He's playing really well this year and avoiding the stupid mistakes. Let's keep it going!

HAHAHAHA, they went EMPTY on 4th and inches to get Favre to tie that record, he cares about it. This is the year of major records falling, career homers and career tds.

Yung Flippa
09-23-2007, 03:47 PM
Good Job to Brett, for the record and beating the Chargers!

CARDIAC CAT 7
09-23-2007, 03:54 PM
Lord Favre:
Please bless us with one more season of excellence after this one.

Sincerly,
All Packer Fans

fenikz
09-23-2007, 03:58 PM
**** the bears, go packers.

Bills2083
09-23-2007, 04:03 PM
I wonder if Favre will play forever? lol.

Who are they playing next week?

neko4
09-23-2007, 04:03 PM
I wonder if Favre will play forever? lol.

Who are they playing next week?
The purple people eaters

Bills2083
09-23-2007, 04:10 PM
The purple people eaters

I could see the pack starting off going 4-0.

I miss having a winning record :(

SuperKevin
09-23-2007, 04:14 PM
Favre is a beast but i'm getting sick of seeing him throw like 10 shovel passes in a game. Every now and then it's cool but it's becoming a major part of his offense

Addict
09-23-2007, 04:15 PM
I could see the pack starting off going 4-0.

I miss having a winning record :(

although the Lions are 2-1 now, I'll miss it after playing the Bears next week.

BroadwayJoe10
09-23-2007, 04:19 PM
I wonder if Favre will play forever? lol.

Who are they playing next week?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone had favre and pulled off is face like in the scooby doo cartoons and he wasn't a real human, but some type of robot. The man, like roger clemens, is just a gamer and i have a hard time beleiving how they are still playing and playing well. Plus, i mean he's still playing backyard football with his friends. Makes me want to go out and buy a pair of wrangler jeans.

ny10804
09-23-2007, 05:51 PM
There goes my hero, watch him as he goes!

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/ab967656-7d52-48c7-8160-58b20903e10a.jpg


Can't wait for 421 vs the Vikings.

yourfavestoner
09-23-2007, 06:12 PM
The record needs to stay at 420. It's perfect that way.

ny10804
09-23-2007, 06:13 PM
The record needs to stay at 420. It's perfect that way.

Yea okay hippy. :)

GB12
09-23-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm very happy to say I witnessed 420 in person, however seeing 421 would have been that much better.

nobodyinparticular
09-23-2007, 06:34 PM
I could see the pack starting off going 4-0.

I miss having a winning record :(

Tell me about it...

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 06:35 PM
Congrats to Brett. He's been playing magnificently so far this year.

Bills2083
09-23-2007, 06:49 PM
Tell me about it...


at least you've won a game...

49erfaithful
09-23-2007, 07:05 PM
congrats to the soon to be single carreer touchdown king

Hawk
09-23-2007, 08:34 PM
All Hail Lord Favre!!!

TB_39
09-23-2007, 09:16 PM
If Tampa can't win the SB, I'd like to see Favre win another and retire from that.

TimD
09-23-2007, 09:29 PM
If Tampa can't win the SB, I'd like to see Favre win another and retire from that.

what's sad is that tampa is 3-0... well not sad but yes actually sad haha

Smooth Criminal
09-23-2007, 09:40 PM
Very good start for Favre. I know its early but in the wide open NFC could we see Favre lead the Packers deep into the playoffs again?

Hawk
09-23-2007, 09:43 PM
Very good start for Favre. I know its early but in the wide open NFC could we see Favre lead the Packers deep into the playoffs again?

if he plays the way he did today and last week...absolutely

Boston
09-23-2007, 09:59 PM
Favre is a beast but i'm getting sick of seeing him throw like 10 shovel passes in a game. Every now and then it's cool but it's becoming a major part of his offense

The sad, yet amazing, thing is, that's basically been our running game so far this year.

lod01
09-23-2007, 10:14 PM
I told the Bears fans that the Packers would easily win the division. One guy even put that in his signature. Now he had to remove it in total embarrassment. I know my football. It's early but the Pack and Favre are playing as expected as are the Bears.

princefielder28
09-23-2007, 10:17 PM
I told the Bears fans that the Packers would easily win the division. One guy even put that in his signature. Now he had to remove it in total embarrassment. I know my football. It's early but the Pack and Favre are playing as expected as are the Bears.

It's still early but the optimism is greatly appreciated

neko4
09-23-2007, 10:35 PM
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Watching the highlights i noticed the chargers are terrible tacklers. We still wouldve drove the ball, but w/o all that YAC yardage

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:37 PM
I told the Bears fans that the Packers would easily win the division. One guy even put that in his signature. Now he had to remove it in total embarrassment. I know my football. It's early but the Pack and Favre are playing as expected as are the Bears.

Hahahaha....yes I'm totally embarressed. What will I do with my internet life now that I was wrong about predicting the outcome of games that have no direct correlation on my life.

You sir, are the man.

Vince Lombardi
09-23-2007, 10:41 PM
It's still early but the optimism is greatly appreciated

Yea, I'm greatly enjoying this great start for all it's worth but we're a team that's got a LOT to prove still. I would like to see some kind of running game materialize before I start thinking about a division championship and (gasp!) Super Bowl. As great as Brett is playing right now it worries me with him having to carry the full load on offense all season with so many young guys around him.

Having said that, I love our defense and we're in 1st place baby! woot!!!!!!!!

Twiddler
09-23-2007, 10:47 PM
Its great to see him playing this well. I really hope it continues and he and the rest of the team continue to defy my expectations. I must admit I have plenty of crow to be eating...

http://tricons.com/NFLForum/images/EatCrow.gif

Nitschke-Hawk
09-23-2007, 11:01 PM
I'm just so happy about this team. It shows that I, along with a lot of other Packer fan's beliefs ever since Mike McCarthy took over and we acquired guys like Jennings, Hawk, Woodson, Pickett, to go with the emergence of Cullen Jenkins, Atari Bigby, Brady Poppinga combined with what we already had was far from an ill advised belief. Let's keep it up.

jag
09-23-2007, 11:08 PM
I will be at the Vikings Pack game this coming weekend. I will witness history, it's so over my head right now I can't believe it.

drowe
09-24-2007, 08:41 AM
just because nobody has posted his stats from the game yet...

369 Yards
62.2% completion
3 TDs
0 INTs

and he looked sexy as hell while he was doing it.

TitleTown088
09-24-2007, 11:58 AM
and he looked sexy as hell while he was doing it. You can say that agian. I love the rugged mountain man look, makes me weak in the knees.

lod01
09-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Hahahaha....yes I'm totally embarressed. What will I do with my internet life now that I was wrong about predicting the outcome of games that have no direct correlation on my life.

You sir, are the man.


Grabbed my prediction 6 months ago.....laughed at me for making it. Put it in your sig for all to see for 6 months as some sort of taunt and then you had to remove it. My prediction was based on analysis. Things like improved D of the Packers. Inability to tackle by the Bears (all they wanted to do last year was grab for the football) and Rexy...the one time savior of the bears. Some clowns even said that they would never trade rexy for Favre. I just let that one go on sheer stupidity.

And yes, I am the man.

Nitschke-Hawk
09-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Whoa there buddy.

It's just competitive banter.

This isn't Salisbury vs. Clayton or something we aren't exactly professionals here. I know it feels good to be what looks like correct for this season, but let's not escalate it. It's nothing serious. BF51 told me Aaron Kampman was an average football player before the 06 season but I don't hold it against him cause I know Adewale Ogunleye is overrated...hehe

someone447
09-24-2007, 10:17 PM
Whoa there buddy.

It's just competitive banter.

This isn't Salisbury vs. Clayton or something we aren't exactly professionals here. I know it feels good to be what looks like correct for this season, but let's not escalate it. It's nothing serious. BF51 told me Aaron Kampman was an average football player before the 06 season but I don't hold it against him cause I know Adewale Ogunleye is overrated...hehe

I remember that. Sorry, I just like seeing that in writing.

WCH
09-29-2007, 10:52 PM
HAHAHAHA, they went EMPTY on 4th and inches to get Favre to tie that record, he cares about it. This is the year of major records falling, career homers and career tds.

I actually interpreted that as a complete lack of faith in the RBs ability to punch it in on an obvious run play.

We're basically running the shotgun-spread right now. Hopefully things improve with Morency back in the lineup.

neko4
09-29-2007, 11:46 PM
I actually interpreted that as a complete lack of faith in the RBs ability to punch it in on an obvious run play.

We're basically running the shotgun-spread right now. Hopefully things improve with Morency back in the lineup.
Which is why we should trade Rodgers and draft Colt Brennan, he plays in aalmost the exact same offense.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Whoa there buddy.

It's just competitive banter.

This isn't Salisbury vs. Clayton or something we aren't exactly professionals here. I know it feels good to be what looks like correct for this season, but let's not escalate it. It's nothing serious. BF51 told me Aaron Kampman was an average football player before the 06 season but I don't hold it against him cause I know Adewale Ogunleye is overrated...hehe
Well...in my defense he WAS an average played before the '06 season. Problem is that he decided to completely blow up and make that statement look foolish.


I should also point out that MANY of you were singing the praises of Marquan Manuel when he was signed, nevermind the fact that you didn't know a damn thing about him except he had a G on his helmet. There are plenty of examples that go both way.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 12:56 AM
Grabbed my prediction 6 months ago.....laughed at me for making it. Put it in your sig for all to see for 6 months as some sort of taunt and then you had to remove it. My prediction was based on analysis. Things like improved D of the Packers. Inability to tackle by the Bears (all they wanted to do last year was grab for the football) and Rexy...the one time savior of the bears. Some clowns even said that they would never trade rexy for Favre. I just let that one go on sheer stupidity.

And yes, I am the man.
Your prediction is based off of the fact that you're a homer. You were probably the same dude that said the Bears were going to choke last year "just like in 2002". Good job, looks like you were actually right one time. I've seen plenty of Packers fans like you. Too much time spent living in the wilderness eating cheese and making out with your cousin.

And the thing about the Bears defense is just stupid. Yeah great analysis dude. Nevermind the fact that half our defense is injured, and beforehand was playing absolutely lights out. When healthy our D is still better than the Packers, and it really isn't that close.

Boston
09-30-2007, 01:02 AM
Look at the stats the last two years, they don't lie. Favre has 38 touchdowns to 47 interceptions. To imply that he's even close to a top 100 player is ridiculous. I don't know how many years it will take for Packers fans to get that he sucks but clearly they haven't yet.

By the way, by comparing Favre to Grossman, I don't mean to compliment Grossman in any way. At this point in their careers that is an insult. If Grossman has a season this year like Favre has the last two years I hope they have the sense to bench him and move on.

Stupid Packer fans. When will they learn, Grossman > Favre, and it's really not even close...

CC.SD
09-30-2007, 05:07 AM
Bears fans will never believe the Packers are better, they are still living in the haze of a super bowl run. Packers are better, says the Charger fan, who has seen his team play both teams.

Posting DRUJUUUUNK but still a valid point i feel. 3:07 AM,

PACKmanN
09-30-2007, 09:29 AM
Which is why we should trade Rodgers and draft Colt Brennan, he plays in aalmost the exact same offense.

no thanks I would rather keep Rodgers also, if he does get traded I would rather draft Sam Keller or Erik Ainge.

Primetime21
09-30-2007, 11:52 AM
what's sad is that tampa is 3-0... well not sad but yes actually sad haha

Well they lost to Seattle in week 1. So 2-1 but still sad.

Favre 67-yard TD pass to Driver in 1st calling right now.

ny10804
09-30-2007, 12:57 PM
16 yard bullet to Jennings is the one! 421!

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 12:58 PM
Bears fans will never believe the Packers are better, they are still living in the haze of a super bowl run. Packers are better, says the Charger fan, who has seen his team play both teams.

Posting DRUJUUUUNK but still a valid point i feel. 3:07 AM,

Clearly the Packers are better. Hell the Lions might be better than we are. Where are you getting otherwise?

someone447
09-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Well...in my defense he WAS an average played before the '06 season. Problem is that he decided to completely blow up and make that statement look foolish.


I should also point out that MANY of you were singing the praises of Marquan Manuel when he was signed, nevermind the fact that you didn't know a damn thing about him except he had a G on his helmet. There are plenty of examples that go both way.

You got us on that one.

someone447
09-30-2007, 02:22 PM
Which is why we should trade Rodgers and draft Colt Brennan, he plays in aalmost the exact same offense.

The only similarity in the offenses is we both pass all the time. The run and shoot is not what the packers run at all. Although it would be cool to watch.

ny10804
09-30-2007, 02:58 PM
Brett Favre throws number 422 to James Jones. 344 yards, 2 TDs, 0 picks, great game.

Bills2083
09-30-2007, 03:10 PM
congrats to Favre to breaking that TD record. Thats an insane amount of TDs

Nitschke-Hawk
09-30-2007, 03:29 PM
400, 420, 421 all to Greg Jennings.

Nitschke-Hawk
09-30-2007, 03:57 PM
After 4 games Brett Favre is on pace for 4,820 yards, 32 TD's, 8 INT's, 65% Completion, 97 QB Rating.

GB12
09-30-2007, 03:59 PM
After 4 games Brett Favre is on pace for 4,820 yards, 32 TD's, 8 INT's, 65% Completion, 97 QB Rating.
Don't forget the biggest one of all, 16-0.:D

JF4
09-30-2007, 04:06 PM
Congratulations Brett Favre. You are the greatest QB that I have ever seen play.

jag
09-30-2007, 08:04 PM
I was at the game. The moment the ball left his hand everyone knew. That is the most electric moment of any game I've ever been too.

Simply amazing.

421 Witness

someone447
09-30-2007, 08:09 PM
I was at the game. The moment the ball left his hand everyone knew. That is the most electric moment of any game I've ever been too.

Simply amazing.

421 Witness

I hate you. There it's out for everyone to know. I absolutely loathe you.

I didn't even get to see it on TV, I don't own one and stupid sopcast would cut in and out.

jag
09-30-2007, 08:12 PM
I hate you. There it's out for everyone to know. I absolutely loathe you.

I didn't even get to see it on TV, I don't own one and stupid sopcast would cut in and out.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm framing my ticket stub, and I'll definitely be telling my grand children about this one.

benchod
09-30-2007, 08:50 PM
Start the Favre for MVP talk.

neko4
09-30-2007, 08:58 PM
Okay then favre 4 MVP talk, i will speak more on Tuesday when all the stats are released but...
He's done a better job than most QB's this year with less.
Romo has an equal recieving core, but a much better rushing attack
Peyton's got one of the best offenses in the league.
Carson's offense rivals Peyton's.
Brady's offense also rivals the two above.
McNabb hasnt been good enough this year to be in the discussion IMO.
Bulger has been benched.
The big 3 at RB havent been as good this year as in last year.(though both LT and LJ just got 100)
Rivers hasnt been on Favre's level this year.
Recievers hardly win.
When did a defensive player ever won?
Kitna has thrown 4 picks.

cheesehead10790
10-01-2007, 12:20 AM
Gotta love Favre. At the bar I was at even the Bears fans clapped when he threw 421.

Bretts conference after the game was interesting though. He was saying how he basically cant carry the team much longer with no rushing attack at all. Hes on pace to throw more passes this year than any other in his career which even Iron Man himself must be worried about.

The Legend
10-01-2007, 12:27 AM
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/djindjo/422.jpg

Nice One Favre

Geo
10-01-2007, 12:36 AM
Sterling Sharpe ftw

neko4
10-01-2007, 02:06 AM
Favre's 421 versus Mannings 49, which was better

Favre had to call an audible or something so that made it look cool, plus it was against Minny in Minny

Manning's was in the heat of the game

TitleTown088
10-01-2007, 05:07 AM
I had a access to 4 free tickets for that game too. Instead I was stuck at Oktoberfest... Oh well. Nice job once again Favre. Gotta love it came agianst another great performance from favre. Oh yeah, and it was agianst the Vikings, which makes it 100,000 times sweeter.

lod01
10-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Favrelicious!

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2702/favre421adw8.jpg

soybean
10-01-2007, 03:12 PM
did you see his underhand shovel pass? that was pretty funny.

GB12
10-01-2007, 06:39 PM
did you see his underhand shovel pass? that was pretty funny.
He's done that like every week this season.

Xiomera
10-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Favre is the man . . . I really hope Green Bay can find a running game. They will be quite impossible to beat if Mornecy can make an impact of one of their other RB's steps up finally.

soybean
10-01-2007, 07:05 PM
He's done that like every week this season.

they've always been underhand? i know he likes to do weird shovel passes but i always thought it was like a "ahhhhh! here you go." type of shovel pass.

like last week when he did the double hand basket shovel pass to deshawn wynn.

lod01
10-01-2007, 09:17 PM
He's done that like every week this season.

That's a new and scary move of Favre's. It used to be flipped towards the RB now it is a semi wind up under hand move.

TitleTown088
10-02-2007, 04:02 AM
Favre is the man . . . I really hope Green Bay can find a running game. They will be quite impossible to beat if Mornecy can make an impact of one of their other RB's steps up finally.

It's hard to run the rock without any holes to go through.

Scar
10-15-2007, 11:18 AM
All time leader in interceptions! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Moses
10-15-2007, 11:19 AM
All time leader in interceptions! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

5-1.

MVP Candidate.

2nd in Passing Yards.

WOOOOOOOOOOO!

Staubach12
10-15-2007, 11:32 AM
5-1.

MVP Candidate.

2nd in Passing Yards.

WOOOOOOOOOOO!

Quoted for Truth. He's still a great QB and one of the best of all time despite the INT thing.

CannedToast
10-15-2007, 11:38 AM
As of right now, no one other than Brady is a candidate. And you all know it.

Scar
10-15-2007, 11:40 AM
Just making sure his contributions to INT excellence don't go unnoticed.

FloridaFootball
10-15-2007, 11:43 AM
Sean Taylor > Brett Favre

2 Interceptions
3 Dropped Interceptions...

Addict
10-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Sean Taylor > Brett Favre

2 Interceptions
3 Dropped Interceptions...

dude, Favre owns Taylor when it comes to interceptions.

And the only MVP right now is Tom Brady, and it's not even close.

Geo
10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
Congrats on the interception record.

I'll always think of Favre when I think of interceptions.

Twiddler
10-15-2007, 12:36 PM
As of right now, no one other than Brady is a candidate. And you all know it.

Oh yeah, its very obvious. Its just every race needs canidates as this is a democratic process. Just think of Favre and the others as being the Independent and Green parties...

lod01
10-15-2007, 01:44 PM
Just making sure his contributions to INT excellence don't go unnoticed.

Yeah. It's a tough record to break too.

1.) the QB has to be durable.
2.) The QB has to be good. A hack like Michael Vick could never get the INT record because he was never good enough to become a passing QB.

It's no surprise that the QB with the most TD's, most pass completions, most attempts and soon to be most yards also threw the most INT's. It's only logical.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 01:48 PM
Yeah. It's a tough record to break too.

1.) the QB has to be durable.
2.) The QB has to be good. A hack like Michael Vick could never get the INT record because he was never good enough to become a passing QB.

It's no surprise that the QB with the most TD's, most pass completions, most attempts and soon to be most yards also threw the most INT's. It's only logical.
Which is why the record was previously held by George Blanda, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.

619
10-15-2007, 01:55 PM
Which is why the record was previously held by George Blanda, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.

its gotta be a gunslinger like favre whos willing to take chances...romo comes to mind as well but i dont think he will play long enough

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 02:51 PM
its gotta be a gunslinger like favre whos willing to take chances...romo comes to mind as well but i dont think he will play long enough

Gunslinger is just another way of saying bad decision maker. I'm not knocking Favre's abilities, he's clearly one of the best, but it's ridiculous the way certain people try to pass off his high INT ratio as an attribute to his fortitude.


And George Blanda wasn't a very good QB, I was being ironical.

JF4
10-15-2007, 03:02 PM
Gunslinger is just another way of saying bad decision maker. I'm not knocking Favre's abilities, he's clearly one of the best, but it's ridiculous the way certain people try to pass off his high INT ratio as an attribute to his fortitude.


And George Blanda wasn't a very good QB, I was being ironical.

George Blanda-4,007 passing attempts.

Brett Favre-8,470 passing attempts.

Just saying.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 03:15 PM
George Blanda-4,007 passing attempts.

Brett Favre-8,470 passing attempts.

Just saying.


2.) The QB has to be good.

It's no surprise that the QB with the most TD's, most pass completions, most attempts and soon to be most yards also threw the most INT's. It's only logical.

So what about all the other QB's that threw for more TD's, completetions, had more attempts and yards that didn't throw as many picks? Are they not logical?

Again....saying that Favre threw for a lot of picks doesn't mean he's a bad QB, but let's stop trying to act like it either

A) Didn't happen
B) Is somehow a GOOD thing
C) Isn't a mark against him when comparing him to other players.

You can take almost any ratio you want, Comp/INT, Yards/INT, Attemps/INT, TD/INT, and Favre STILL has a higher interception ratio than most of the QB's in the game that are considered great.

It's not just a matter of Favre was around for a long time so he threw a lot of picks. Favre makes a lot of very very stupid decisions. You can call that "gunslinging" if you want, but it's a mark on his legacy. To act otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Basically all that statement says is that he's better than George Blanda, who got into the HOF as a punter.

Moses
10-15-2007, 03:20 PM
Favre has a 1.52 TD to INT ratio.

Marino has a 1.67 TD to INT ratio.

Really, the difference is pretty small.

someone447
10-15-2007, 03:40 PM
So what about all the other QB's that threw for more TD's, completetions, had more attempts and yards that didn't throw as many picks? Are they not logical?

Again....saying that Favre threw for a lot of picks doesn't mean he's a bad QB, but let's stop trying to act like it either

A) Didn't happen
B) Is somehow a GOOD thing
C) Isn't a mark against him when comparing him to other players.

You can take almost any ratio you want, Comp/INT, Yards/INT, Attemps/INT, TD/INT, and Favre STILL has a higher interception ratio than most of the QB's in the game that are considered great.

It's not just a matter of Favre was around for a long time so he threw a lot of picks. Favre makes a lot of very very stupid decisions. You can call that "gunslinging" if you want, but it's a mark on his legacy. To act otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Basically all that statement says is that he's better than George Blanda, who got into the HOF as a punter.

When I hear gunslinger I think of it as a good thing. Yes, he made bad decisions, and being a gunslinger isn't the best for the team; but it sure does make it fun to watch. You can't deny that. The gunslingers are the most fun QBs to watch. Favre might throw a few ints, but he also makes throws that no other QB could make.

John Elway- 300 TD 226 INTs 1.32 ratio
Johnny U- 290 TD 253 INT
Marino and Favres Ratio difference isn't very large.

Green Bay Scat
10-15-2007, 03:43 PM
Favre and INT are like Peanut Butter and Chocolate...

Nitschke-Hawk
10-15-2007, 03:45 PM
Yeah Favre makes some stupid decisions. It has cost us games before. But he's won soooo many games for us, it's amazing. He still has the most wins of any other Quarterback, and what the Packers franchise has done with him at the forefront is astounding. I'd like to have more championships, but we've been a competitive team every year except 05. As a fan I'd take what Favre has done on the field over probably everybody except Manning or Brady (when they're done). I know that if number 4 is on his game almost no matter who we have on offense we have a chance to win, and it's been that way, year after year after year.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Comparing Unitas, or any QB that played prior to the rule changes, to any modern QB is totally anachronistic and even you know that.

Elway (and for the record I think Elway is overrated) as had a lot of his TD's taken by other runningbacks, so that should be taken into account as well.


The truest statistic would probably be attempts/INT ratio, simply because touchdowns can be dependent upon a myriad of factors.

In that case, you're getting about 30 attempts from Favre per pick (which quite frankly isn't terrible at all..a little more than an interception per game), in the case of Elway it's 32, with Peyton Manning it's 36, and with Steve Young it was 39.

Is this totally damning? Of course not. 30 attempts per INT isn't a bad ratio, but it does say something.

Moses
10-15-2007, 03:50 PM
Comparing Unitas, or any QB that played prior to the rule changes, to any modern QB is totally anachronistic and even you know that.

Elway (and for the record I think Elway is overrated) as had a lot of his TD's taken by other runningbacks, so that should be taken into account as well.


The truest statistic would probably be attempts/INT ratio, simply because touchdowns can be dependent upon a myriad of factors.

In that case, you're getting about 30 attempts from Favre per pick (which quite frankly isn't terrible at all..a little more than an interception per game), in the case of Elway it's 32, with Peyton Manning it's 36, and with Steve Young it was 39.

Is this totally damning? Of course not. 30 attempts per INT isn't a bad ratio, but it does say something.

If you're going to say touchdowns depend on a myriad of factors, interceptions have to as well. How many times have tipped balls, amazing or terrible plays by defenders, amazing or terrible plays by receivers, etc. effected a quarterback's interceptions? Also, guys that are constantly playing from behind are going to throw more interceptions because they have to force balls more often.

I'm just saying that Favre isn't all that different than Marino (who many call the greatest pure passer of all-time) when it comes to interceptions. He forces the ball a lot but so did Marino.

someone447
10-15-2007, 04:28 PM
Comparing Unitas, or any QB that played prior to the rule changes, to any modern QB is totally anachronistic and even you know that.

Elway (and for the record I think Elway is overrated) as had a lot of his TD's taken by other runningbacks, so that should be taken into account as well.


The truest statistic would probably be attempts/INT ratio, simply because touchdowns can be dependent upon a myriad of factors.

In that case, you're getting about 30 attempts from Favre per pick (which quite frankly isn't terrible at all..a little more than an interception per game), in the case of Elway it's 32, with Peyton Manning it's 36, and with Steve Young it was 39.

Is this totally damning? Of course not. 30 attempts per INT isn't a bad ratio, but it does say something.

You said that his TD to INT ratio was among the worst by top QBs, I showed you that it wasn't. You brought past QBs into this.

All it says is that he takes chances he shouldn't take.

All in all, his other accomplishments dwarf his INT record. To put more weight on his INTs is as much homerism as it is to say his ints are good.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 04:46 PM
You said that his TD to INT ratio was among the worst by top QBs, I showed you that it wasn't.
And it's still among the worst. You showed me one player in his era that is considered elite that had a lower TD/INT ratio. Among means a grouping of people, not just one. Marino, Montana, Young, Manning, Brady, hell Carson Palmer (to name a few) all have a better TD, Attempt, completion, etc., to interception ratio than Favre. Naming one contemporary player does not invalidate my argument that most elite QB's have a better ratio. That's a fact.


All it says is that he takes chances he shouldn't take.
Ummm.....duh?

All in all, his other accomplishments dwarf his INT record. To put more weight on his INTs is as much homerism as it is to say his ints are good.
They only "dwarf" them from your perspective. I've still got Favre in my top 10 QB's of all time, but that's a mark against him.

I also never put more weight on his INTs. I'm merely pointing out the fact that they exist, and the all to common reaction from Packers fans to act like they don't or that they are insignificant. I mean really...the first argument was basically that it was a good thing, that throwing lots of passes leads to lots of picks, yet there are players that have thrown many less picks per attempt, so there's nothing inherently "logical" about it at all.


Also, no. To say that throwing interceptions is more important than attempts or completions may be faulty logic (though I would agree with it). Saying that giving the ball to the other team is a good thing is ******* stupid. That's homerism.

bigbluedefense
10-15-2007, 05:00 PM
I don't think theres ever been a qb in NFL history who's gotten a bigger pass for mistakes than Brett Favre.

someone447
10-15-2007, 05:44 PM
And it's still among the worst. You showed me one player in his era that is considered elite that had a lower TD/INT ratio. Among means a grouping of people, not just one. Marino, Montana, Young, Manning, Brady, hell Carson Palmer (to name a few) all have a better TD, Attempt, completion, etc., to interception ratio than Favre. Naming one contemporary player does not invalidate my argument that most elite QB's have a better ratio. That's a fact.



Ummm.....duh?


They only "dwarf" them from your perspective. I've still got Favre in my top 10 QB's of all time, but that's a mark against him.

I also never put more weight on his INTs. I'm merely pointing out the fact that they exist, and the all to common reaction from Packers fans to act like they don't or that they are insignificant. I mean really...the first argument was basically that it was a good thing, that throwing lots of passes leads to lots of picks, yet there are players that have thrown many less picks per attempt, so there's nothing inherently "logical" about it at all.


Also, no. To say that throwing interceptions is more important than attempts or completions may be faulty logic (though I would agree with it). Saying that giving the ball to the other team is a good thing is ******* stupid. That's homerism.

I am not saying attempts and completions are more important than interceptions. But the record for wins(because face it, without favre the packers wouldn't have had winning teams every year.), TDs, consecutive games, 3 straight MVPs, those sure as hell dwarf his interception record.
Favre is routinely put in the top 5 QBs of all time. I named 2(granted Unitas was a long time ago) that are usually put above him that had worse ratios. Then Marino who only had a slightly better ratio. I didn't say anything about Montana because well, he is the exception.

Lets look at HOF qbs from the past 25 years.
Aikman: Attempts to INT 33 Attempts to TD- 28 Td to INT 1.17
Jim Kelly: Attempts to INT 27 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.35
Dan Marino: Attempts to INT 33 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.67
Warren Moon: Attempts to INT 29 Attempts to TD 23 TD to INT 1.24
John Elway: Attempts to INT 32 Attempts to TD 24 TD to INT 1.32
Joe Montana: Attempts to INT 39 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.96
Steve Young: Attempts to INT 39 Attempts to TD 18 TD to INT 2.17
Brett Favre: Attempts to INT 30 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.51

I don't know where you find your "facts" but they are wrong. For being such an interception machine, Favre's TD to INT ratio is in the top half of HOF qbs since the rule changes in 78. He also has the most number of wins, has played in every game, has three straight MVPs, yet he has never played with another HOFer on offense(Sharpe would have been, but they were only together 3 years.)

Personally, I think Montana and Young are overrated. They had 3 QBs one after another put up other wordly stats. Both of them wouldn't have been able to fit in any other offense and be considered the best of all time. They are the two best true WCO QBs without a doubt.

I barely get Young in my top 10 QBs of all time, he just didn't play long enough.

someone447
10-15-2007, 05:45 PM
I don't think theres ever been a qb in NFL history who's gotten a bigger pass for mistakes than Brett Favre.

He does get a bad rap for his mistakes. Yes he has the record for INTs, but his ratios are not worse than other HOF qbs.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 06:36 PM
I am not saying attempts and completions are more important than interceptions. But the record for wins(because face it, without favre the packers wouldn't have had winning teams every year.), TDs, consecutive games, 3 straight MVPs, those sure as hell dwarf his interception record.
Favre is routinely put in the top 5 QBs of all time. I named 2(granted Unitas was a long time ago) that are usually put above him that had worse ratios. Then Marino who only had a slightly better ratio. I didn't say anything about Montana because well, he is the exception.

Lets look at HOF qbs from the past 25 years.
Aikman: Attempts to INT 33 Attempts to TD- 28 Td to INT 1.17
Jim Kelly: Attempts to INT 27 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.35
Dan Marino: Attempts to INT 33 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.67
Warren Moon: Attempts to INT 29 Attempts to TD 23 TD to INT 1.24
John Elway: Attempts to INT 32 Attempts to TD 24 TD to INT 1.32
Joe Montana: Attempts to INT 39 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.96
Steve Young: Attempts to INT 39 Attempts to TD 18 TD to INT 2.17
Brett Favre: Attempts to INT 30 Attempts to TD 20 TD to INT 1.51

I don't know where you find your "facts" but they are wrong. For being such an interception machine, Favre's TD to INT ratio is in the top half of HOF qbs since the rule changes in 78. He also has the most number of wins, has played in every game, has three straight MVPs, yet he has never played with another HOFer on offense(Sharpe would have been, but they were only together 3 years.)

Personally, I think Montana and Young are overrated. They had 3 QBs one after another put up other wordly stats. Both of them wouldn't have been able to fit in any other offense and be considered the best of all time. They are the two best true WCO QBs without a doubt.

I barely get Young in my top 10 QBs of all time, he just didn't play long enough.
A few things. I said elite players. If you think Aikman, Moon, or Jim Kelly are elite all time QB's in the NFL, you're sorely misguided. That said, to use TD/INT ratio for Aikman or Kelly is stupid. Ever heard of Emmit Smith and Thurman Thomas?

So...with that said, post 1980 there are 7 QB's I would consider elite.

Montana, Young, Manning, Elway, Marino, Brady, and Favre.

Now, like I said, Attempt/Int is probably the best way to gauge this, as touchdown passes is a highly subjective stat. (I agree with Moses that interceptions are subjective as well, but less so)

Brady= 41 attempts per INT
Montana = 39 attemps per INT
Young= 39 attempts per INT
Manning= 36 attempts per INT
Marino= 33 attempts per INT
Elway=32 attempts per INT
Favre=30 attempts per INT

Even if you go TD/INT Favre is only ahead of Elway.


So that's where I would get my "facts". Does that tell the whole story? No. Is it significant? To me yes it is, and it's why I (and many others quite frankly) do not have Favre at or near the best QB of all time. Throw in Unitas, Otto Graham, and Tarkenton and I've got him about 7th or 8th.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 06:37 PM
And you said the opposite of what BBD said...I'm not sure you're aware you were disagreeing with him or not, your tone indicated that you did not.

Moses
10-15-2007, 06:41 PM
And it's still among the worst. You showed me one player in his era that is considered elite that had a lower TD/INT ratio. Among means a grouping of people, not just one. Marino, Montana, Young, Manning, Brady, hell Carson Palmer (to name a few) all have a better TD, Attempt, completion, etc., to interception ratio than Favre. Naming one contemporary player does not invalidate my argument that most elite QB's have a better ratio. That's a fact..

Favre actually has a higher completion percentage than Marino.

My main point is that Favre isn't any more of a gunslinger than Marino, who many regard as the best pure passer in football. They were both gunslingers and both prone to mistakes. If you're going to bury Favre for making bad decisions, you have to bury Marino as well.

The new era of NFL quarterbacks are making less mistakes than ever. Guys like Brady and Manning are paving the way for insane efficiency from a position that for years was stuck at ~60% completion rates and ~2:1 TD to INT ratios. That's also an indication of how the game has changed and how it is tough to compare players from different eras.

princefielder28
10-15-2007, 06:44 PM
Favre actually has a higher completion percentage than Marino.

My main point is that Favre isn't any more of a gunslinger than Marino, who many regard as the best pure passer in football. They were both gunslingers and both prone to mistakes. If you're going to bury Favre for making bad decisions, you have to bury Marino as well.

The new era of NFL quarterbacks are making less mistakes than ever. Guys like Brady and Manning are paving the way for insane efficiency from a position that for years was stuck at ~60% completion rates and ~2:1 TD to INT ratios. That's also an indication of how the game has changed and how it is tough to compare players from different eras.

Moses, I disagree with some of your stances from time to time, but with this you hit it right on the nose, and I know I could not have worded it better myself

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 06:44 PM
Favre actually has a higher completion percentage than Marino.

My main point is that Favre isn't any more of a gunslinger than Marino, who many regard as the best pure passer in football. They were both gunslingers and both prone to mistakes. If you're going to bury Favre for making bad decisions, you have to bury Marino as well.

The new era of NFL quarterbacks are making less mistakes than ever. Guys like Brady and Manning are paving the way for insane efficiency from a position that for years was stuck at ~60% completion rates and ~2:1 TD to INT ratios. That's also an indication of how the game has changed and how it is tough to compare players from different eras.
How is Favre from a different era than Brady or Manning? He's playing the same game under the same context that they are.

Moses
10-15-2007, 06:54 PM
How is Favre from a different era than Brady or Manning? He's playing the same game under the same context that they are.

I wasn't using that as an excuse for Favre. I was merely saying that comparing QBs who weren't in the league at very similar times is very difficult. Favre still played most of his career in the 90s where as Manning and Brady were both mostly in the 2000s. The game has changed, even in that short amount of time.

someone447
10-15-2007, 07:15 PM
A few things. I said elite players. If you think Aikman, Moon, or Jim Kelly are elite all time QB's in the NFL, you're sorely misguided. That said, to use TD/INT ratio for Aikman or Kelly is stupid. Ever heard of Emmit Smith and Thurman Thomas?

So...with that said, post 1980 there are 7 QB's I would consider elite.

Montana, Young, Manning, Elway, Marino, Brady, and Favre.

Now, like I said, Attempt/Int is probably the best way to gauge this, as touchdown passes is a highly subjective stat. (I agree with Moses that interceptions are subjective as well, but less so)

Brady= 41 attempts per INT
Montana = 39 attemps per INT
Young= 39 attempts per INT
Manning= 36 attempts per INT
Marino= 33 attempts per INT
Elway=32 attempts per INT
Favre=30 attempts per INT

Even if you go TD/INT Favre is only ahead of Elway.


So that's where I would get my "facts". Does that tell the whole story? No. Is it significant? To me yes it is, and it's why I (and many others quite frankly) do not have Favre at or near the best QB of all time. Throw in Unitas, Otto Graham, and Tarkenton and I've got him about 7th or 8th.

Now you are picking and choosing which qbs to use? You use statistics like most people use crutches, for support rather than illumination. Aikman and Kelly are hall of famers, both deservedly so. That makes them elite.

I know I was disagreeing with BBD, I phrased it poorly.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 07:58 PM
Nobody in their right mind includes Aikman, Kelly, or Moon as amongst the greatest QB's of all time. I'm not comparing Favre to every QB, I'm comparing him to the ones that are generally considered amongst the greatest, it's not selective choosing at all.

As for your analogy, I have no ******* idea what you're talking about, but ok. You clearly aren't winning this argument and aren't going to find many non-Packers fans to agree with you so I'm done with it. If you think he's the best of all time suit yourself, nobody besides Packers fans and John Madden does.

Moses, on the other hand, admittedly makes some good points. I agree that to a certain extent comparisons such as these are futile, but statistics are certainly a barometer to use other than just blatant homerism.

someone447
10-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Nobody in their right mind includes Aikman, Kelly, or Moon as amongst the greatest QB's of all time. I'm not comparing Favre to every QB, I'm comparing him to the ones that are generally considered amongst the greatest, it's not selective choosing at all.

As for your analogy, I have no ******* idea what you're talking about, but ok. You clearly aren't winning this argument and aren't going to find many non-Packers fans to agree with you so I'm done with it. If you think he's the best of all time suit yourself, nobody besides Packers fans and John Madden does.

Moses, on the other hand, admittedly makes some good points. I agree that to a certain extent comparisons such as these are futile, but statistics are certainly a barometer to use other than just blatant homerism.

I've never said Favre is the greatest of all time, in fact all I have ever said is that he is top 5 of all time. I actually have him tied for 4th all time(with marino.) All I have argued is that to put his INT record first and foremost is being just as much of a homer as someone who says the INT record doesn't matter.

You did just pick and choose who would fit your criteria. When I chose my people, I took everyone who has made the HOF in the past 25 years. I didn't put Brady or Manning in because if they get a career ending injury tomorrow, they may not make the HOF. When all is said and done, Manning will be number 1, with Brady arguably in the top 5.

bearsfan_51
10-15-2007, 08:17 PM
Brady and Manning could both retire tomorrow and make the HOF. Especially Manning...that's ridiculous.

someone447
10-15-2007, 08:24 PM
Brady and Manning could both retire tomorrow and make the HOF. Especially Manning...that's ridiculous.

It is likely they would, but not a guarantee. Considering he has the 2nd longest consecutive games streak, and that he never gets hit it is probably safe to say he won't get a career ending injury.

255979119
10-15-2007, 08:32 PM
It is likely they would, but not a guarantee. Considering he has the 2nd longest consecutive games streak, and that he never gets hit it is probably safe to say he won't get a career ending injury.

You don't think Manning or Brady getting in is guaranteed??

someone447
10-15-2007, 08:36 PM
You don't think Manning or Brady getting in is guaranteed??

I definitely don't think Brady getting in is a guarantee and I think that is Manning had a career ending injury, it might take him a while to get in.

I have no doubt they will both get in, because career ending injuries for QBs are rare.

P-L
10-15-2007, 08:47 PM
Manning could retire tomorrow and he'd be a lock. Brady wouldn't be as much of a lock, mainly because his career has been a few years shorter. However, if Aikman is in the Hall of Fame, I don't see why Brady wouldn't make it if he retired tomorrow.

Moses
10-15-2007, 08:50 PM
Both Brady and Manning are locks to me. Manning's stats speak for themselves and he has a ring. Brady has very nice stats and 3 rings.

GB12
10-15-2007, 09:36 PM
I have just a few things to say

1. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to note the INT record

2. I hate the term "gunslinger"

Other than that I don't have much to add, and I don't want to join that pointless argument.

TitleTown088
10-16-2007, 08:44 AM
Here is the bets analysis I have found of Brett Favre's INT record. Granted, it's from a packers website, but for the most part I tend to find the writers unbiased.

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070923/PKR07/709230693/1989

someone447
10-16-2007, 12:49 PM
Here is the bets analysis I have found of Brett Favre's INT record. Granted, it's from a packers website, but for the most part I tend to find the writers unbiased.

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070923/PKR07/709230693/1989

I WAS AT THAT FALCON GAME!!!!!! That run was just amazing.

Ewing
10-16-2007, 01:05 PM
Here is the bets analysis I have found of Brett Favre's INT record. Granted, it's from a packers website, but for the most part I tend to find the writers unbiased.

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070923/PKR07/709230693/1989

I'll still take Elway and Marino over him any day of the week. Y'know, quarterbacks who don't make five dumbass throws a game.

Moses
10-16-2007, 01:06 PM
I'll still take Elway and Marino over him any day of the week. Y'know, quarterbacks who don't make five dumbass throws a game.

Did you read any of this thread?

Ewing
10-16-2007, 01:10 PM
Did you read any of this thread?

I skimmed it. Packer fans tend to make my brain hurt.

Moses
10-16-2007, 01:11 PM
I skimmed it. Packer fans tend to make my brain hurt.

Well thanks for posting a nonsensical comment with no backup after there has been multiple pages of good debate by both sides.

Ewing
10-16-2007, 01:18 PM
Well thanks for posting a nonsensical comment with no backup after there has been multiple pages of good debate by both sides.

You're welcome.

lod01
10-19-2007, 12:33 PM
Favre has the INT record due to too many bonehead throws like against the Bears 2 weeks ago. He also chucked up too many passes for grabs (especially over the last 2 years) just trying to win with lesser WR talent than he has this year. Many of those throws would have been completions or TD's had Randy Moss been the WR rather that Robert pussboy Ferguson. Part of it though can be blamed on a coaching staff that did not try to reign him in before McCarthy arrived. The fact that he is currently playing QB about as good as he ever has can be attributed to coaching and good WR's. There is no way the staff can stop his bad throws come crunch time. (remember that Philly playoff game a few years back?) THAT was one of the worst decisions he has ever made. They can only hope it doesn't happen.

I would definately take someone like Montana or Brady over Favre in the 4th Q of the Bears game 2 weeks ago.

someone447
10-19-2007, 01:37 PM
Favre has the INT record due to too many bonehead throws like against the Bears 2 weeks ago. He also chucked up too many passes for grabs (especially over the last 2 years) just trying to win with lesser WR talent than he has this year. Many of those throws would have been completions or TD's had Randy Moss been the WR rather that Robert pussboy Ferguson. Part of it though can be blamed on a coaching staff that did not try to reign him in before McCarthy arrived. The fact that he is currently playing QB about as good as he ever has can be attributed to coaching and good WR's. There is no way the staff can stop his bad throws come crunch time. (remember that Philly playoff game a few years back?) THAT was one of the worst decisions he has ever made. They can only hope it doesn't happen.

I would definately take someone like Montana or Brady over Favre in the 4th Q of the Bears game 2 weeks ago.

That int wasn't necessarily a bad decision. It was a miscommunication between him and his receiver.

My biggest problem with favre? He never seems to have a sense of urgency. His 2 minute drill is very lackadaisical.

someone447
10-19-2007, 01:39 PM
Did you read any of this thread?

He is like a religious fundie, he doesn't let things like facts or evidence get in the way of his belief.

SFbear
10-19-2007, 01:49 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/dan_marino_hosts_hour_long_hbo

Dan Marino Hosts Hour-Long HBO Special Celebrating Favre's Interceptions

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Dan-Marino-art.article_large.jpg

drowe
10-19-2007, 02:06 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/dan_marino_hosts_hour_long_hbo

Dan Marino Hosts Hour-Long HBO Special Celebrating Favre's Interceptions

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Dan-Marino-art.article_large.jpg

it's the post so nice, he made it twice!

Ewing
10-19-2007, 02:21 PM
He is like a religious fundie, he doesn't let things like facts or evidence get in the way of his belief.

Facts? You mean like the all-time leader in interceptions?

Moses
10-19-2007, 03:10 PM
That int wasn't necessarily a bad decision. It was a miscommunication between him and his receiver.

My biggest problem with favre? He never seems to have a sense of urgency. His 2 minute drill is very lackadaisical.

Are you kidding? Favre runs one of the best 2-minute drills in the league. Sure, he led one terrible one this year but that's far from the norm.

Favre's biggest knock on him will always be that he always puts the game on his shoulders. You live or die with him. He'll throw costly picks in games that you could win other ways but he'll also give you victories in games that you should have lost.

GB12
12-16-2007, 06:29 PM
Favre is now the all time leader for passing yards. Marino's pretty much out of the record books now.

someone447
12-16-2007, 06:57 PM
Are you kidding? Favre runs one of the best 2-minute drills in the league. Sure, he led one terrible one this year but that's far from the norm.

Favre's biggest knock on him will always be that he always puts the game on his shoulders. You live or die with him. He'll throw costly picks in games that you could win other ways but he'll also give you victories in games that you should have lost.

I didn't see this when you posted it.
He hasn't ran a good two minute drill in years. He used to be the best at at(well, maybe Elway), but since '01 or '02 he has been very lackadaisical.