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sweetness34
09-24-2007, 04:39 PM
Ok most around here know that I'm a Rex Grossman fan. I've been blasted for it and I've been ridiculed for sticking up for him. And by no means am I forgiving him for his poor play so far in his first 3 games. He played horribly yesterday, he played mediocre against KC, and he was mediocre against SD.

But at the same time Berrian has been constantly dropping balls, Moose is dropping passes, Davis has dropped balls, RB's are missing their pass blocking assignments, and his OL can't pick up a blitz to save their lives.

I realize Rex needs to do better with the ball but some blame needs to be taken off of him and put on other people's shoulders as well because the entire offense has been atrocious so far IMO. Especially the run game (which is not all on Cedric, again lack of run blocking has killed us).

If Rex doesn't pick it up against Detroit, then I'm all for a change but at the same time I want to see other guys pick their game up as well. Because Berrian dropped a sure TD last night, Moose dropped a pass over the middle, and actually Berrian dropped one on the first series.

diabsoule
09-24-2007, 05:00 PM
I agree with your comments about the o-line and your receivers dropping passes, however, Grossman still is not the answer for the Bears as far as a QB is concerned.

awfullyquiet
09-24-2007, 05:14 PM
I think that's a little sad to say, diabsoule...

He's ATM suffering from archie manning syndrome (only with a much better defense)... i'd say, he plays better than everyone gives him credit. if anything, the receivers are probably getting whipped this week more than rex will. berrian ran some really bad routes last week, and two weeks ago. and has dropped alot. moose isn't getting open. i say. mix up the receivers. and for god sakes, put bradley in there, let moose recover a bit...

last night showed me (after i watched the game on tivo), that he still can make the throws. he's throwing it away more, he's gonna have times that he misjudges situations (i.e. the 3-wide), but when there are opportunites, he can make any throw to any spot. the WR's just aren't putting the ball away. serious.

SFbear
09-24-2007, 05:24 PM
He may not be the only problem, but he is the biggest problem. He has been given ample oppurtunities to fix his mental mistakes(i.e throwing into triple coverage with no prayer of completion), which hurt the team more than anything any of the other players have done. He either refuses to put the work in or is incapable of improving his game. This team has bent over backward to accommodate his "learning curve" and he has failed time and time again when people have counted on him. It hurts the team to have one player recieve so much special treatment when that player continues to regress and does nothing to show he deserves to start.

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 05:26 PM
Enough about Rex. I had an incling you would still support him. Enough. It's not just last week, it's every week. He sucks. He's a ******* moron. He doesn't know how to run an offense. I'm even starting to doubt Lovie's competence as a Head Coach.

If our defensive injuries keep mounting up we'll be lucky to win 8 games. Our offense is ******* terrible right now.

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 05:27 PM
The Bears need the run game to pick up first and foremost, Benson is not getting it done. Then, they need to get some more quick hitting stuff to get Rex in a rhythm. Then once he gets in to it start going deep.

His interception are incredibly stupid however. As much as they want to ride their defense, they need to put up points some how. I don't see much explosion in their offense, Berrian is going to see more over the top coverage if he is the only one able to go deep.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:28 PM
He's ATM suffering from archie manning syndrome

At first I thought you meant that Rex was suffering from ass-to-mouth syndrome. Ew.

Team forums, maybe?

Nitschke-Hawk
09-24-2007, 05:28 PM
I think one of the reasons Grossman gets bashed so much is that when he starts playing bad it never gets better. If he throws a pick or fumbles on the 1st or 2nd drive 90 percent of the time it's worse the rest of the game. Last night with the Cowboys 20 Bears 10, 12 minutes left in the game he threw that Anthony Henry pick 6 right into quadruple friggin' coverage on a sideline post route. Completely effin inexcusable. There was absolutely no chance of completing a pass to whomever he threw it to, I can't remember, hell I never even knew, because the guy was surrounded by Cowboys uniforms.

What was he thinking? The receiver is playing peek-a-boo and he's gonna jump out from the crowd and catch the ball?

You know occasionally we'll see even the best QB's throw into double, triple coverage on a deep go route or something trying to get a big chunk of yardage. I'm talking 40, 50 yards or more, and they figure it's worth the risk and if the throw is decent the receiver could at least knock the ball down out of danger. That type of play is borderline inexcusable for even an above average QB. But what he did on that play last night, Marino, Montana, Favre, Elway, Unitas, Manning, Brady, every other great quarterback combined wouldn't have the guts to even think about attempting that crap. That might have been the worst decision with the football I've ever seen. They were only down 10 points at the time, with a top notch defense and Devin Hester, either of which can score a TD at any moment, this jag throws that ball and blows the game. At that point, the game became a blowout.

With that being said, the rest of the Bears offense sucks right now too.

Shiver
09-24-2007, 05:30 PM
How can anyone defend him? The same guy who said he didn't give his best effort for a game because he was preoccupied with New Year's Eve parties. The same Grossman that has a 1:3 TD/INT ratio in the last seven games. The same Grossman who lashed out at the media for being "ignorant" and couldn't live up to his words. The exact same Grossman who needs an absolutely perfect pocket to even make basic throws because he lacks height and mobility.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:31 PM
The Bears actually look a lot like the Saints do right now (offensively). In the sense, that both offensive lines have been lackluster, QBs have been definitely off, and neither running game looks anything similar to last year. The only difference is that the Bears have a stellar defense that keeps them in games while the Saints don't.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:31 PM
How can anyone defend him?

He's sexy. And a dragon to a lesser degree.

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 05:34 PM
I ******* hate him. I can't believe you are still defending him sweetness. My god....

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:37 PM
Hey now. At least you guys have a stellar defense.

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 05:42 PM
He would still torch the Panthers defense right now haha

that hurts me to say that...

SFbear
09-24-2007, 05:42 PM
Hey now. At least you guys have a stellar defense.

Not with the way injuries have been racking up. Tommie Harris, Lance Briggs, and Nathan Vasher all got hurt that game. I really afraid Tommie might be out for the year.

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:44 PM
Damn, the Bears had THAT many injuries last night? Jesus.

SFbear
09-24-2007, 05:48 PM
Damn, the Bears had THAT many injuries last night? Jesus.

This pretty much sums up the way I feel about the season so far.

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/8750586a-d516-4244-9786-163ffe698b44.jpg

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 05:49 PM
At least you guys have won a game. :(

Nitschke-Hawk
09-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Plus you have Adam Archu "leta **** load of yardage" also. Didn't he get benched for or Kevin Payne whatever that guy's name is last night?

Once again they proved as a defense they can't at least contain a number one receiver (especially big receivers) consistently and they can't handle a smash mouth running game. As a finesse defense they match up well with finesse teams. I've been saying it for a while they have big trouble with tough running and good big receivers or any size great receiver. They stick to their basic beliefs waaay too much as a defense. It seems like they never set up a defensive game plan and just try to play and coach as best as they can. I mean they got talent on defense don't get me wrong, but against elite offenses and players you can't just "try to play your best" all the time. It works occasionally but I don't believe in it all. So of course when it doesn't work and the offense is terrible the team will just get steam rolled.

bearfan
09-24-2007, 05:59 PM
ehh, I dont think it was quite like that. Romo bought time, time = coverage breakdowns = TO completions. And we handled the running game very well till the end where he broke that 54 yard run (minus Harris, Briggs, Vasher)

Nitschke-Hawk
09-24-2007, 06:04 PM
My man crush on MB3 and Jason Witten might be influencing my beliefs in this case, though, lol.

zoinks
09-24-2007, 06:04 PM
I've been saying it since the Super Bowl: Lovie Smith should have pulled Grossman in Miami, released him in the offseason, and never looked back.

Grossman can no longer be blamed for any of his gaffes....he is what we thought he was. ;)

From here on out, every one of Grossman's screw-ups falls squarely on the shoulders of Lovie Smith. He's apparently the only guy in the league who can't see that Grossman is an absolute trainwreck.

yourfavestoner
09-24-2007, 06:07 PM
This pretty much sums up the way I feel about the season so far.

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/8750586a-d516-4244-9786-163ffe698b44.jpg

That's a thizz face if I've ever seen one.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-24-2007, 06:08 PM
I was a Grossman defender, since he was young, and young, inconsistent QBs tend to get better. Plus, good Rex was a VERY good QB. Good news is he stopped being inconsistent. Bad news is he's always Bad Rex. He might be able to succeed later, but not in Chicago, he's under too much pressure I think.

Geo
09-24-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't place all the blame on Rexy, though he isn't playing well now. I place a hefty amount of blame on Ron Turner, the offensive coordinator. He's getting way too giddy with his quick little receivers and big gains in the passing game to the detriment of his young quarterback.

Seriously, Bill Cowher gave you the bloody blueprint with Roflisberger in 2005. Run the ball with Cedric Benson and Adrian Peterson, play action pass, maybe a few bootlegs so Grossman has easy completions in front of him, and emphasize the tight ends more. Why is Grossman not getting more chances to throw to his most sure-handed and comfortable receiving option, Desmond Clark?

It's statistically proven how much remarkably better Rexy plays when Clark is involved in the offense. And Greg Olsen is a promising prospect drafted in the 1st round. How damn thick do you have to be to not get that? Crying out loud.

Moses
09-24-2007, 06:15 PM
Rex is terrible and not the answer for Chicago. That said, the entire team has played poorly in my opinion. The offence has been a trainwreck. There is no run game, the offensive line is nowhere near where it needs to be, and the receivers haven't been getting it done. The defence has even taken a step backwards and it's clear that they're not going to be able to continually bail out the offence anymore.

zoinks
09-24-2007, 06:16 PM
He might be able to succeed later, but not in Chicago, he's under too much pressure I think.

Absolutely agree.

I really wanted Grossman to succeed, and I still think he's got the tools to be a very effective QB. But it's not going to happen while he's in Chicago. That bridge has long since burned.

Moses
09-24-2007, 06:17 PM
Absolutely agree.

I really wanted Grossman to succeed, and I still think he's got the tools to be a very effective QB. But it's not going to happen while he's in Chicago. That bridge has long since burned.

What tools have we seen from him? He's Joey Harrington 2.0. Not only does he not win games for you, but he'll do everything in his power to lose them. Not a game manager and doesn't have the talent to be a top-tier QB. That's a recipe for disaster.

yo123
09-24-2007, 06:22 PM
I don't place all the blame on Rexy, though he isn't playing well now. I place a hefty amount of blame on Ron Turner, the offensive coordinator. He's getting way too giddy with his quick little receivers and big gains in the passing game to the detriment of his young quarterback.

Seriously, Bill Cowher gave you the bloody blueprint with Roflisberger in 2005. Run the ball with Cedric Benson and Adrian Peterson, play action pass, maybe a few bootlegs so Grossman has easy completions in front of him, and emphasize the tight ends more. Why is Grossman not getting more chances to throw to his most sure-handed and comfortable receiving option, Desmond Clark?

It's statistically proven how much Rexy plays when Clark is involved in the offense. And Greg Olsen is a promising prospect drafted in the 1st round. How damn thick do you have to be to not get that? Crying out loud.


The problem with the play action part, is Benson has shown absolutely nothing to show he can be a starting RB in this league (from what I've seen at least.)

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 06:24 PM
The problem with the play action part, is Benson has shown absolutely nothing to show he can be a starting RB in this league (from what I've seen at least.)

He's not very well on blitz pick-ups from what I've seen as well.

yo123
09-24-2007, 06:26 PM
He's not very well on blitz pick-ups from what I've seen as well.



I think you forgot a verb in there somehwere.

neko4
09-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Just wondering... Since the packers are trying to reduce Favre's mistakes and hide the youth on the Oline with quick passing, could the bears do the same. Can Rexy make the quick passes and do they have the recievers? I know Berrian pretty fast

Flyboy
09-24-2007, 06:28 PM
I think you forgot a verb in there somehwere.

I definitely did. But, I'm too lazy to go back and fix it.

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 07:39 PM
The defence has even taken a step backwards and it's clear that they're not going to be able to continually bail out the offence anymore.
No it hasn't. It's just that the offense is so terrible that it's giving them even better field position and taken up even less time on the clock. The Bears D falls apart in the 4th quarter because they are so tired of carrying the game. At least last year we could run the ball.

Hurricane Ditka
09-24-2007, 07:43 PM
A big part of Cedric's problem is Ron Turner's play calling. They never give him a chance to get into a rhythm. He started out strong, but Turner pulled him too soon. He needs to keep getting the rock, that's the kind of running back he is, that's why Ron Turner had to have him. But whenever he gets anything resembling a groove, he's pulled.

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 07:53 PM
The problem with the play action part, is Benson has shown absolutely nothing to show he can be a starting RB in this league (from what I've seen at least.)
That's a little harsh. 2 of Benson's first 3 games were rough, but he played very well last year, even in games where Jones barely saw the field. I've seen a lot of both players, and I always prefered Jones, but the margin is pretty slim. Jones has better vision and intangibles, Benson is faster and more punishing. That's about it.

Vince Lombardi
09-24-2007, 08:09 PM
Damn sweetness, I admire your team optimism and you definitely have valid points about other players besides Rex underperforming, but seriously how can you still support Rex? No offense but it takes a pretty big homer to not see Rex for what he is at this point, and that's a backup at best. This is almost on par with that dude (darko?) who claimed last year that Bruce Gradkowski was a better version of Vince Young. :rolleyes: Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. :confused:

Moses
09-24-2007, 08:11 PM
No it hasn't. It's just that the offense is so terrible that it's giving them even better field position and taken up even less time on the clock. The Bears D falls apart in the 4th quarter because they are so tired of carrying the game. At least last year we could run the ball.

You actually believe the defence is playing like it did last year?

ks_perfection
09-24-2007, 08:12 PM
Gradkowki a better version of Vince Young. Thats the funniest thing I've read all week.

Geo
09-24-2007, 08:53 PM
A big part of Cedric's problem is Ron Turner's play calling. They never give him a chance to get into a rhythm. He started out strong, but Turner pulled him too soon. He needs to keep getting the rock, that's the kind of running back he is, that's why Ron Turner had to have him. But whenever he gets anything resembling a groove, he's pulled.
I don't understand it either. Benson's a bruiser, he should get somewhere around 20-25 carries a game. The Bears are paying him millions for what?

no love
09-24-2007, 09:28 PM
McNabb will be a bear by next year. Grossman is so gone at the end of the year barring some sort of miraculous turnaround. Meaning Grossman goes to the land of OZ and gets a brain.

They really have to scale back the offense and simplify things for Grossman.

bearfan
09-24-2007, 09:31 PM
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

haha, every time I say that to my friends, they just laugh at me lol.

neko4
09-24-2007, 09:36 PM
Rex must be doing something right, because Griese and Orton havent been put in, OR!
Lovie is making a bad decision and keeping Grossman in.

SFbear
09-24-2007, 09:54 PM
Rex must be doing something right, because Griese and Orton havent been put in, OR!
Lovie is making a bad decision and keeping Grossman in.

Lovie said today that he is going to announce any changes to the starting lineup on Wednesday. He said he has already made the decision for the QB position. I think if he was going to stick with Grossman he would have said "Rex Grossman is our QB".

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 09:59 PM
You actually believe the defence is playing like it did last year?

I believe that if you actually watched the game in context, and compared last season to this season, that this defense is better. It's just even more hindered by the fact that our offense is even worse at not turning the ball over and eating up clock than it was last year.

Most points have come off of turnovers or late in the game when the defense was completely worn down (or injured).

kwilk103
09-24-2007, 10:09 PM
one of the worst decisions last night was getting sacked and giving the cowboys a chance at a hail mary to end the half (the ref screwed us out of 3 sec; there should have been one last play)

bearfan
09-24-2007, 10:40 PM
one of the worst decisions last night was getting sacked and giving the cowboys a chance at a hail mary to end the half (the ref screwed us out of 3 sec; there should have been one last play)

stop whining, you guys won.

And yes Moses, the defense is better than last year *i agree w/ 51*. They are playing faster, better football, and it isnt until they start getting tired b/c Wrecks cant keep them off the field that they start giving up points. Most notibly this past game, but remember that Briggs, Vasher, and eventually Harris was out. But it doesnt help when your offense is as bad as ours is

kwilk103
09-24-2007, 10:42 PM
im not whining i was just stating that was one of grossmans worst decisions; you do everything you can to run out the clock; and it wasnt like he got hit on the play, he got tripped up

SFbear
09-24-2007, 11:15 PM
im not whining i was just stating that was one of grossmans worst decisions; you do everything you can to run out the clock; and it wasnt like he got hit on the play, he got tripped up

How is getting tripped a decision?

sweetness34
09-25-2007, 02:16 AM
I ******* hate him. I can't believe you are still defending him sweetness. My god....

Defending him? Um no. I said he's blown ass so far this year and deserves the blame, but his teammates have been no better. I agree he's the biggest problem, but other guys aren't pulling their weight either.

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 03:12 AM
Then why does this deserve it's own thread? He's probably going to get benched either this week or the next anyway.

TitleTown088
09-25-2007, 03:24 AM
If Wrecks Grossman dosen't pick it up agianst that Detroit's defense he damn well better be benched, oh wait, the Bears alternative QB sucks too.

bearfan
09-25-2007, 06:31 AM
If Wrecks Grossman dosen't pick it up agianst that Detroit's defense he damn well better be benched, oh wait, the Bears alternative QB sucks too.

If he is playing against the Detriot defense I will be livid. I mean, if he fails, I wont be, but if he has large sucsess it will be an excuse to leave him in for a few weeks longer based on the "Well Rex can play, look at detriot"

Addict
09-25-2007, 11:49 AM
If he is playing against the Detriot defense I will be livid. I mean, if he fails, I wont be, but if he has large sucsess it will be an excuse to leave him in for a few weeks longer based on the "Well Rex can play, look at detriot"

if he can't get a good game in agaist OUR defense he deserves to be 16th string quarterback in the Arena League it's just that simple.

Those defensive injuries suck though, not so bad for the Lions, but losing Harris, Briggs and Vasher

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 12:04 PM
Griese is starting this Sunday. Mark it down.

As for the Bears, it seems likely that Harris and Vasher will miss the next 2-3 weeks. It sounds as if Briggs will be ok to go. None of them appear to be season ending.

Geo
09-25-2007, 12:28 PM
As much as I like the Bears and want to see them do well, if they actually start Griese by choice then they deserve what will happen.

Hurricane Ditka
09-25-2007, 12:35 PM
As much as I like the Bears and want to see them do well, if they actually start Griese by choice then they deserve what will happen.
Jake Long and Sam Keller here we come.

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 12:47 PM
As much as I like the Bears and want to see them do well, if they actually start Griese by choice then they deserve what will happen.

Somehow I find it hard to believe that Griese will throw 6 interceptions to every 1 touchdown.

I realize Griese comes with his faults, but to me he's a Jon Kitna type. Not very good...but good solid enough to win with good people around him.

Geo
09-25-2007, 02:07 PM
The Tribune expects Brian Griese to start against the Lions (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070924bears,1,2502093.story?coll=cs-home-headlines), though it seems they have no evidence whatsoever to support their claim (it's not like such inconsequential and trivial matters have stopped or will stop the media).

619
09-25-2007, 02:10 PM
u could put the leagues best receivers on the bears and i still think he wouldnt do much better

SFbear
09-25-2007, 02:59 PM
The Tribune expects Brian Griese to start against the Lions (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070924bears,1,2502093.story?coll=cs-home-headlines), though it seems they have no evidence whatsoever to support their claim (it's not like such inconsequential and trivial matters have stopped or will stop the media).

Well I think Lovie not giving the same old "Rex Grossman is our quarterback" spiel is pretty telling. He said he made his decision on Monday and would announce on Wednesday. Why wait if you are just going to reiterate that Grossman is the starter? It doesn't seem like that big of a leap in reasoning even if the evidence isn't definitive.

Geo
09-25-2007, 03:06 PM
NFLN's Adam Schefter is reporting Griese will start against the Lions.

Looks like the Bears have indeed made the change.

(I wonder where Rexy will play next year?)

Addict
09-25-2007, 03:17 PM
Somehow I find it hard to believe that Griese will throw 6 interceptions to every 1 touchdown.

I realize Griese comes with his faults, but to me he's a Jon Kitna type. Not very good...but good solid enough to win with good people around him.

I think Kitna (and, in your opinion, Griese) is better discribed as 'not great, but good enough'

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't even go so far as to say good enough, I'll settle with ok at this point. That's what I would consider Kitna or Griese. Ok. I wouldn't put any higher than 20th amongst starting QB's in the NFL though, that's for sure.

Hurricane Ditka
09-25-2007, 03:33 PM
I just hope we don't win too many games to hop out of the Jake Long sweepstakes, allthough Sam Baker wouldn't be a bad consolation prize.

Addict
09-25-2007, 03:34 PM
I wouldn't even go so far as to say good enough, I'll settle with ok at this point. That's what I would consider Kitna or Griese. Ok. I wouldn't put any higher than 20th amongst starting QB's in the NFL though, that's for sure.

wowowowowow kitna is a lot better than you give him credit for, did you see how atrocious the Lions were in Week 2 after he went down?

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 04:01 PM
wowowowowow kitna is a lot better than you give him credit for, did you see how atrocious the Lions were in Week 2 after he went down?
Kitna has been in the league for years, he's always been average.

The difference is that your backup is J.T O'Sullivan, a guy who couldn't even beat out Chris Leak for the 4th QB on our depth chart (Chris Leak is currently bagging groceries at the local Walgreens by the way).

Martz's offense, with those weapons, and throwing the ball 40 times a game is going to produce a lot of stats and points, but Kitna is still average, and still turns the ball over like it's his job.

SFbear
09-25-2007, 04:07 PM
as long as you can protect him. if he starts getting beat up, he becomes far more ineffective than the average nfl qb.

I'll settle for ineffective over a QB who plays like he put money on the opposing team. Jesus everytime they replay that clip of him floating the ball into three defenders I want to ram my head into a wall. Its almost identical to the one in the Superbowl that clinched the game for the Colts.

SFbear
09-25-2007, 05:21 PM
i'm not disagreeing he'd be better, but i mean ineffective like he sees the defensive line running towards him and he freezes like a deer in headlights.

So be it as long as he holds onto the ball. Although I wonder how many games until the majority of idiotic Bear fans start chanting for Orton. The QB carousel continues...

Flyboy
09-25-2007, 05:50 PM
I just hope we don't win too many games to hop out of the Jake Long sweepstakes, allthough Sam Baker wouldn't be a bad consolation prize.

Hush. You guys haven't looked THAT bad... us on the other hand is a different story.

Bearsfan123
09-25-2007, 11:20 PM
Heres the breakdown:

Our receivers have went from decent-good last year to 2004 or 05 versions this year. Just plain terrible. O-line looks slow and weak. Pass protection is pathetic. Benson cant block to save his life. Ron Turner is at least half-devil. Devin Hester is a God who plays Satan on certain Sundays.

Oh and our D is getting exhausted.

All that plus a QB who has a hard time reading defenses, cant get a rythm with his receivers, cant scramble at all, and doesnt know how to throw away from defenders.

bearfan
09-26-2007, 10:25 PM
http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html