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View Full Version : Giving it a whirl


toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 07:32 PM
No idea why I did this. Boredom maybe. I havenít really kept as close tabs this year. Order was based on how I roughly view the teams at this point in the season that is somewhat influenced by current records. In short Ö whatever I decided on at this point in time. One round. I fully expect that the next time I try Ö the order will be significantly different. Itís interesting to me in that I think the AFC has the top teams Ö but arguably the worst teams as well. I'd imagine there's going to be some WTF am I doing comments. Ah, oh well. Tis early. Please don't knock me on the order, as I've fully explained it. That gets boring after awhile.


1. Buffalo

Iíve got them here largely because Ö well, I just donít see the passing game developing into a legitimate threat to balance out that offense, and the defense just isnít ready to carry the team, as evidenced by the first few weeks. The one area on defense that might warrant a high concern would be at DT, and if Glenn Dorsey tests well, they might consider him, as he could really bolster that front four and make it a potentially dominant unit, as it currently lacks the dynamic interior player necessary, although McCargo could still develop. There isnít another glaring defensive area of concern that would merit a first round selection, IMO, let along a 1st overall consideration.

If they are this bad, that means the QB position would have faltered, and considering Losman is hurt and was struggling anyways, that seems likely. Trent Edwards is nice, but if they decide to move on from the Losman era, Edwards is not stopping them from drafting a top QB. I am, though, wary, at this point in time, as to whether any QB is truly deserving of, say, top 5 status, let alone number 1 overall, but teams have never shied away from reaching on QBís, particularly in recent years. If they made a pick here, the nod goes to Andre Woodson, who has been red hot, shows good leadership and decision making, along with the raw physical tools to excel. Certainly, mechanical work is needed, and that might mean Losman/Edwards get a shot in 2008.

Thing is, while itís often hard to trade down from the top spot, I see a couple possibilities with how I have the order currently set. Both Atlanta and Dallas have extra picks, Dallas having picked up the Browns pick. Both teams could make aggressive moves here to reshape their futures. The lean here is

Projected Trade:

Buffalo gets the 2nd overall and Dallasí 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2008
Dallas gets the 1st overall

Atlanta has more needs than Dallas, and at the end of the day, I think they may hold still and exercise all the picks. Dallas has the fortune of owning Clevelandís first, which gives them a lot of options. Looking at their talent, thereís very few areas that need a desperate injection of youth. Offensively, OL isnít likely here, and a young WR, if selected, would be later on, as someone to develop. Defensively, a top 3-4 DL player, particularly at NT, would be nice, but who? Dorsey isnít a fit for the end role in all honesty. Maybe a CB, but thatís more a depth move as well. As good as Marion Barber III is, a dynamic talent like Darren McFadden may be too hard to pass up here if they can land him. There definitely, if McFadden tests as well as people think he will, might be several teams interested in moving up for him, such as Atlanta. Buffalo would get a few more picks and avoid making the pressurized first overall QB pick. I think they can make the trade happen without giving up both firsts, but Buffalo might want to go for both.

Dallas picks: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

Buffalo options: Andreí Woodson, Glenn Dorsey
Donít see any other real options, as of now, for Dallas if they did move up. Maybe Calais Campbell Ö

2. Buffalo f/ Cleveland via Dallas

Buffalo moves down 1 spot, passes on a player they wouldnít have taken anyways, and in this scenario picks up an extra 2nd and 3rd. This is an ideal scenario for them. They may look around for some more deals, but at the end of the day, I think they hold firm here and make a pick. This may be odd Ö but the nod is to Dorsey here. I think, if they picked first overall, there would be pressure to make that QB pick. In moving down, I think they may be a bit open minded about it. Dorsey would give them a potentially dominant interior force. If McCargo develops, then they have a nasty tandem inside. That said, QB still warrants consideration. Dorsey could be gone at 3, and perhaps 5, so if they want him, theyíd probably snap him up. As for Cleveland in 2 here, well, I think the Brady Quinn era will start soon, and theyíll go through growing pains. I donít think anyone envisioned the Browns doing that much with Quinn/Anderson at the helm, and they are in the toughest division in football.

Buffalo picks: DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

Buffalo options: Andreí Woodson

3. Atlanta

I think almost everyone expects them to struggle this year, on account of off-field distractions, and one Joey Harrington helming the ship. For some reason, I think theyíll be able to squeeze out enough victories to avoid the 1st or 2nd spot. Granted, when you are this bad, you might prefer, as a fan, the team just tanking. But I think I like what Iíve seen out of Petrino so far.

With extra picks, they very well might get aggressive. Dorsey and McFadden are two guys they might have strong interest in, and both are off the board now. So it might be a possibility for them to move up. As of now, I lean against it. While I think thereís a lot of reason for hope, there also are several areas to address, which is why I think they might hold steady.

What do they do here? A lot of possible areas of concern, but there isnít a DT really worth it here, there really isnít a RB worth it. A talent like Calais Campbell could warrant consideration, but they already took a toolsy, big end last year, so Iím not sure I see duplication. DeAngelo Hallís struggles and implosion may bear watching Ö but then again, not sure a CB is worth it here either. LB? Donít see it. S? Perhaps Ö get a Kenny Phillips and slide Jimmy Williams to corner? Or keep both back there?

I think, if the draft falls this way, itís OL or QB. Iíll admit my biases might be impacting my decision here, as I truly donít feel Brohm is worth it here, and Iím passing on that for now, but he deserves consideration due to his ties. Oh, I donít see a trade down here. Donít see who deals up. This will likely be somewhat controversial, on account to his poor start to the year. But I think, if he finishes strong, he should merit high consideration, and the nod goes to Ryan Clady. Why not Jake Long? I just am not sold heís a pro LT in most schemes (for some, heíd be fine). There seems to be heavy rumors that Clady is dead set on turning pro. On a side note, last year, I was big on Doug Free (not this big, though), and he struggled and fell (granted, injuries were a factor there). I think Clady has the feet to eventually be a stud LT, and combined his good bulk will give a solid projection for many.

Atlanta picks: OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

Atlanta options: Jake Long, Andreí Woodson, Brian Brohm

4. Miami

I think Cameron can be a good HC, and I think Mueller is solid in personnel. That said, hard to see them doing that good, which does make their offseason a bit more curious, as they seemed to want the best of both worlds by shedding some veterans and adding some veterans. That said, this wasnít their mess, although the Ginn Jr. was questionable (I was fine with the Beck pick) and theyíll be able to move forward from the Saban area a bit more this offseason.

Defensively, they could use an edge talent, along with DL help. More secondary help is warranted. Offensively, hard to see them going WR, after spending such a high pick last year. Beck is the QB of the future, and will likely get a look down the stretch. Iíd imagine Ronnie Brown will still be the guy, although adding another back may occur a bit later.

A lot of possibilities, and admittedly, I havenít followed closely this year. Iíd imagine OL has to be a possibility, and Jake Long might be a LT fit for Cam Cameronís offense. Adding a guy like Long could settle the line, and help create a better running attack, making the entire offense better, and protecting the defense a bit.

Miami picks: OT Jake Long, Michigan

Miami options: Calais Campbell, an edge player to emerge

5. Oakland

I really like what Iíve seen out of Lane Kiffin so far, and youíd imagine that, with more of the guys he wants in place, and more time, better things may happen. That said, they do have to work in Jamarcus Russell next year, so give Kiffin time. I like what Iíve seen though, especially considering they are still somewhat limited personnel wise. Clearly, the QB of the future is in place. A WR would be nice, but is anyone worth it here? A stud back is a thought Ö but who? The OL is a possibility to consider. Defensively, they are set at conrer. I could see them adding DL help. Canít see LB or S this high.

A lot of possibilities could happen here. Iíd contemplate a trade, but at the end of the day, I think Calais Campbell is too good to pass up if he is available here. Heíd really give them an intriguing DE to develop and may fit into the raw potential that Al Davis loves. A tempting possibility may to be move down and grab Chris Long, but Iíd have to see a trade that I really like Ö and I donít see one.

Oakland picks: DE Calais Campbell, the U

Oakland options: Chris Long, Gosder Cherilus, Sam Baker, Sedrick Ellis, and a few more

6. St. Louis

Itís disappointing for me to put them this high, as I thought they could win the NFC West. But things havenít been going right, particularly on the injury front. Defensively, they are still getting chewed up by the run. The only offensive area that I could see an early pick with is the OL Ö and I just donít see it. Um Öconsidering Bulgerís extension, QB is a no. Thus, Iím looking defensively. I could see a pick almost anywhere, to be honest. An edge guy like Chris Long could help shore up the run while still getting a push. A pass rusher like Harvey or Gholston might merit consideration. A young 3-technique like Sedrick Ellis is a possibility. A LB like Keith Rivers might merit consideration.

That said, Iíll throw a curveball into the mix. Kansas City is a potential threat to take a QB. Thus,

Projected Trade:

St. Louis gets the 9th overall, Minnesotaís own third and fourth rounder
Minnesota gets the 6th overall

Minnesota has an extra 3rd rounder due to the trade with Denver involving Marcus Thomas. St. Louis can address their needs just fine at 9. Minnesotaís defense is just real good, but the offense isnít there. While some defensive help may be warranted, thatís likely depth help thatís needed. Offensively, their OL could use some more work, and they could use a good receiver. That said, the biggest issue is at QB, and while I like Tarvaris Jackson enough, I donít think, unless Jackson comes back strong, that theyíd pass up a high QB if one was available. Granted, a top QB pick likely would go through struggles, but it would also buy them some time. The nod here goes to the guy who I think is the best QB in the draft, and a guy that I just feel like would be a good fit for Childress. I will fully admit I expected to have a QB work earlier, but this is how I talked it out as of now, and it might have to do with my own views on this QB cropís worthiness at the top of the draft.

Minnesota picks: QB Andreí Woodson, Kentucky

Minnesota options: another QB is a possibility, if a WR emerges

7. Kansas City

I think that defense is going to keep them in some games, but the offense just doesnít seem like itíll do enough to win enough games to be a threat. This teamís in a quasi-rebuilding mode, and itís really not far from being competitive again. That said, on a personal feeling, I often feel that Peterson is fine with being competitive, rather than being a real contender. Just a personal feeling there.

What might they need? If Jared Allen isnít retained, an end is a thought. A better DT isnít out of the question. LB doesnít seem likely, and DB isnít a first round concern this high, IMO. OL and QB could both draw looks. I donít think theyíd be aggressive enough to push to move up for a QB, hence why Minnesota jumped them in this scenario. Brohm seems like a type of QB that could work, but this is a run-oriented team, and the early problems with the OL has me leaning that route. A debatable pick, as Iím not sold heís worth it this high, but the top of this draft, as of now, looks really weak to me, and the nod goes to Gosder Cherilus over Sam Baker, as I think Cherilus, from what Iíve seen and read, is better in the run department.

Kansas City picks: OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

Kansas City options: Sam Baker, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and some others

8. Detroit

That game with Philly was an ouch. That said, I think they are improved, but whether or not it shows in the standings, only time will tell. Hard to blame their inability to create a strong run game based on Martz considering their top RB option has been out, so letís see how that plays out. Offensively, the QB of the future is in place, and clearly, WR is not a thought. If Kevin Jones has concerns, then that might necessitate a look at RB this high. I still think the OL could use some work. Defensively, theyíve gotten some pressure so far, but still have to shore up the pass D a bit. The run D has had some holes, and I havenít followed close enough to know why.

Admittedly, I havenít followed close enough to really have a feel for what to do here. The move I want to make is the one I think is least likely, and thatís a Sam Baker pick here. After some debating, the nod goes to Kenny Phillips.

Detroit picks: S Kenny Phillips, the U

Detroit options: Keith Rivers, Sam Baker, an edge guy

9. St. Louis f/ Minnesota

St. Louis slides down and doesnít really miss on anyone that would be a huge possibility for them. Iím still uncertain as to what the best course of action is. The nod in this go around is, uh, well, Sedrick Ellis. With Wrotenís issues, and Gloverís age, getting a young upfield type like Sedrick Ellis might be a possibility.

St. Louis picks: DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California

St. Louis options: Chris Long, an edge guy, a LB, ?

10. New Orleans

I think everyone knew the run D would have issues. I donít think anyone expected their running game to be weak, but with Deuce out, itís hard for me to see them having that power running attack to balance out their offense. So, whatís the course of action? The core of the good team from 2006 is still there, and a few touches, and they should be strong again. Offensively, a lot depends on Deuceís health, but there isnít a power back to take here anyways, and if they take a back, itíll be to pair with Reggie, so thatíll come later. Offense in general doesnít seem likely. The focus would probably be on defense. Jason David hasnít looked so hot. They could still use a LB upgrade. A good DT would be nice.

Tough to call right now on what direction to go. This is my biggest current reach Ö but Iím going to project Dre Moore working up the board a bit and the Saints addressing their DT position. Flame away. The reported numbers may warrant a rise as the draft gets closer, if those numbers are true, and he has gotten off to a good start this year.

New Orleans picks: DT Dre Moore, Maryland

New Orleans options: Um Ö Keith Rivers? I guess any DT that merits consideration here would be an option.

11. New York Jets

Year 2 of Mangeniusí era has certainly been an intriguing one so far. That said, the raw talent probably just isnít there, and with the AFC being so tough, they could struggle record-wise. Offensively, the one area that could warrant a look is the OL Ö but do they spend a pick on OL this high? Itís questionable. Defensively, they could use DL help, but hard to see who? I still think they could use an edge guy, and the nod goes that way for now.

New York Jets pick: DE/OLB Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

12. New York Giants

Iíll be the first to say Iím not sure what to think about this team. They came up with a good win against Washington, but Iím still not sold. Their pass D has been problematic so far, and as a result, their overall run numbers donít look great. But I think their run D is alright. Offensively, Ward had a huge game, but I donít think many consider him a real option. The big question to answer is still whether or not Brandon Jacobs is the man. The current thought on my part is that, even if he isnít, the RBís from here to the 2nd round arenít that far separated, so they may be better off waiting. Iím tempted to go with Sam Baker, but I go with another USC guy, as Kawika Mitchell could be upgraded.

New York Giants pick: LB Keith Rivers, Southern California

13. Tennessee

Jeff Fisherís got stability, and his Titans are showing good development. Granted, no matter what they do, the development of Vince Young as a passer will be the critical element in seeing how they develop. But the run Dís gotten nasty again, and the defense, on the whole, is strong. Offensively, the run game has shown some strength, and receivers are stepping up when needed. The OL is solid.

So, where to? A lot of possibilities exist. They can draft for value now, as there are fewer holes. Iím thinking end or WR. Vince Young is the future, and future needs some help. The nod goes to DeSean Jackson, although an end like Chris Long is tempting.

Tennessee picks: WR DeSean Jackson, California

14. Tampa Bay

The Buccaneers look resurgent, and Iíve got them 2nd in the NFC South. But I just am still having a hard time seeing enough talent there to warrant the postseason. Could easily change in a few weeks. A lot depends on where Chucky is, but letís assume heís there for now. A QB canít be ruled out here. Who is the future? Certainly doesnít seem to be Simms. OL merits consideration only because Sam Baker has fallen. Those are my two main areas of focus. The nod goes to WR if Chucky is here (and QB if Chucky is not). Chucky still needs another playmaker at WR, and someone like Early Doucet may have the skills necessary. Not the pure speed guy he probably wants, but may be too good to pass up. On a side note, if Chucky is there, I could definitely see them picking up Rex Grossman to work with.

Tampa Bay picks: WR Early Doucet, LSU

15. New England f/ San Francisco

New England loses a pick, but gets this one, so they are probably happy with the outcome for now. Where do they look? Likely defense, although I guess you never rule out anything with Belichick. But do they deal with the Asante Samuel situation again this offseason? And they could use some LB youth as usual. Somehow, a corner hasnít come off the board, and I think, if they stay put, grabbing someone like Malcolm Jenkins might be awfully tempting.

That said, itís New England, and one canít help but think that they might look to deal. With several intriguing options on the board (Sam Baker, Chris Long, Malcolm Jenkins and so forth), a lot of possibilities may exist. Also, um, those Qbís havenít come off the board just yet. Hey, itís early, so Iíll have some fun with it

Projected Trade:

New England gets Atlantaís 2 2nd rounders
Atlanta gets the 15th overall

Reminiscent to the Brady Quinn situation last year, Atlanta may get tempted to move up if Brian Brohm falls. Sure, they have other holes, but getting a QB of the future is always a big concern. Brohm is Petrinoís guy, and while Iím not huge on him, his value likely would be fine here. Chicago is a threat to take a QB, and New England may be open to dealing down, particularly due to the strong 2nd tier in this draft and recouping the ďlostĒ pick.

Atlanta gets: QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

16. Houston

Things really look to be headed up for them, but they are in a tough, tough division. Tired of typing so much, so I see DB/LB as perhaps the top areas of focus. A young runner can likely be found later, and I donít see OL. The nod here goes to Malcolm Jenkins, as Faggins is probably better off as the nickel option in time.

Houston picks: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State

17. Washington

The development of Jason Campbell is the biggest thing, although I guess if Joe Gibbs is gone, who becomes HC becomes the biggest thing overall. With Randle El and Moss signed down, along with Cooley and their 2 backs, the only offensive area that may warrant a look is OL, and that seems unlikely this high. Defensively, CB/DL could perhaps get looks. Local guy Chris Long may be an intriguing fit, stout against the run, while still getting a good push, and the nod goes there for now.

Washington picks: DE Chris Long, Virginia

18. Chicago

So Ö Iím either being harsh to my own team (as Iíve been claimed to be at times) or too nice to my own team (which is possible, as they certainly donít look good). But eh, they are here for now. So whatís up? OL help would be nice, and Sam Baker is tempting. But eh, with the Grossman era done, a QB of the future is needed, and Matt Ryan may be too good to pass up here.

Chicago picks: QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

19. Cincinnati

Playing in the toughest division and the tougher conference certainly doesnít help Cincinnati. I see them on the outside looking in again, as Iím not buying that defense as something that can do enough. The inability to contain the run game will hurt in such a tough conference. What to do, though, sitting here? DB seems unlikely, and Iím hard pressed to buy LB here. There doesnít seem a DT worth taking, and letting Peko develop is worth it. So what? Offense and OL? Perhaps. In the end, Iím going DL here, and DE, as I think they have to get some pass rush help. Jackson could go higher than this, as heís gotten off to a good start this year, but obviously, workouts will be the deciding factor.

Cincinnati picks: DE Lawrence Jackson, Southern California

20. Seattle

Iím not sure what to make of this team. Yeah, I have them in the playoffs, but this team just seems off. That said, itís an older team in some respects (and young in some others), but they may be have the ability to step it up as the season progresses. But they are in the playoffs in this setup. So what do they look for? Another team that itís hard for me to figure at this point in time. I canít help but think that they could still use a good runner behind Shaun Alexander. A better pass rusher might be nice as well. Iím really not sure. I figure Iíll hear it for this one, but Sam Baker might be too tempting to pass up here, and Iím not sure why I had him fall.

Seattle picks: OT Sam Baker, Southern California

21. Philadelphia

Iíve got mixed emotions about this club as well. How good are they? Iím just not sure. That said, you donít have to be real good to make the playoffs in the NFC, and Iíve got them in as of now. See Ö not totally based on records. Theyíve done well with their draft picks in building up depth. Two routes of consideration right now, a corner or WR. Partially influenced by history, Iím going cornerback. The nod goes to the raw upside of Justin King.

Philadelphia picks: CB Justin King, Penn State

22. San Diego

Is it completely Norvís fault? Probably not. But if they fail to make the playoffs, I think Norvís gone. But thatís not a consideration as of now. What might they need? This is still a pass D with some holes in it Ö but there doesnít seem to be anyone that stands out in regards to someone that you might think is an upgrade. Weddle likely will take one safety spot. With Michael Turner likely gone, the nod here goes to a RB to protect LT. After further consideration, the nod goes to James Davis with his mix of power and burst.

San Diego picks: RB James Davis, Clemson

23. Arizona

When I started ordering it, I didnít have Arizona in the playoffs. But the more I thought about it, the more I was troubled with the NFC, and more I was troubled with giving Seattle the division. This may change in a few weeks time, but Whisenhunt has given the Cardinals a running identity and showing good balance. So whatís up here? I wonder if an edge guy like Derrick Harvey may draw some consideration.

Arizona picks: DE/OLB Derrick Harvey, Florida

24. Green Bay

Iím still not completely sold on their resurgence, but the good D was expected, and if you figure that a RB steps up down the stretch, or the run game in general, then theyíll be tough to beat, particularly if Favre is patient. A lot depends on Favre, but you figure theyíll give Rodgers a shot before drafting a QB high. RB/TE/CB/S seem to be the potential areas that standout to me. Perhaps in a mild upset, Iím going with RB here. I like Brandon Jackson a lot, but one thing he isnít is explosive. Felix Jones shows a lot of explosion, and heís my nod, perhaps mildly surprising, perhaps not.

Green Bay picks: RB Felix Jones, Arkansas

25. Carolina

This team really is an enigma to me. That said, if they have that strong run game to lean on, they should be good enough to reach the playoffs in the NFC. Their big hole is at safety Ö but is anyone worth it? I guess itís possible they shift someone to safety and draft a CB, but Iím not too radical with my thoughts right now. Ah, heck. Iím having a tough time figuring this out, so what the heck. Iíll go with Jack Ikegwuonu, who can either be shifted to safety, or he can play corner and someone else moves to safety.

Carolina picks: DB Jack Ikegwuonu, Wisconsin

26. Baltimore

Taking way too long to finish this, so um Ö I wouldnít be surprised to see them add another OL to the mix. That said, someone like Quentin Groves might be too intriguing of a fit to pass up here. A bit conflicted here Ö giving the nod to Phillip Wheeler as an ILB to develop and mold.

Baltimore picks: LB Phillip Wheeler, Georgia Tech

27. Denver

The run D has been porous so far, and they need to find a way to clog it up. Alright, late first round, so I usually mix it up a bit more, and I think this mixes it up a bit. Heís stout against the run and has shown an improved push this year, and he has the rumored athletic tools to get better.

Denver picks: DL Maurice Murray, New Mexico State

28. Jacksonville

I was lukewarm about their chances, but if the run D shores up and Garrard is solid, then they suddenly look real good. Tough to figure, but I wonder if they try to find another WR again. I was thinking RB, but changed my mind about it at the end. My nod for now goes to Earl Bennett.

Jacksonville picks: WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt

29. San Francisco f/ Indianapolis

I like the Colts, but Pittsburgh and New England have looked awfully good this year. Anyhow, San Francisco owns this pick. I wonder if they find another edge guy to get some pressure. Quentin Groves fell a bit, and perhaps he gets the nod here.

San Francisco picks: DE/OLB Quentin Groves, Auburn

30. Pittsburgh

What a start to the year. Their defense is just flat out nasty right now. Iím thinking OL, although Iíll go with a surprise pick perhaps. I wonder if Jonathan Stewart might be quite tempting here, as someone to share the load with Willie Parker. Good OL talent can be found later.

Pittsburgh picks: RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

31. Dallas

I had Dallas and Denver as my preseason picks. Dallas looks like the cream of the crop in the NFC right now. Furthermore, with the extra pick from Cleveland, I had them get aggressive and pick up McFadden. There really isnít a glaring need. I canít help but wonder if CB depth may be an area they look at here, with plenty of solid options on board. Perhaps a guy like South Floridaís Mike Jenkins would fit into the mold of talent that Wade likes at CB.

Dallas picks: CB Mike Jenkins, South Florida

32. New England (forfeited)

comahan
09-25-2007, 07:44 PM
I like Jenkins, and definitely wouldnt mind that pick, but apparently, Houston is blatantly copying me by being in love with Fred Bennett, so im not sure CB is a big need, or at least as big as its thought to be. I agree that Faggins is far better suited at Nickel. We really need safety help though, where injuries and uncertainty have plagued an already bad unit back there. SLB would probably be our biggest need on D otherwise.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-25-2007, 07:49 PM
Toonster you may not believe it but I love your Oakland pick.A+

etk
09-25-2007, 08:05 PM
Great Bucs pick, only I can't see us passing up Brohm.

D-Unit
09-25-2007, 08:09 PM
Excellent Mock. The blue print for all future mock drafters.

Love the analysis and most of the picks are sound.

Comments on the Dallas selection:

McFadden - While he would truly be a dream selection and put Dallas' offense over the top, I feel he is somewhat of a double edged sword. We have all the reason in the world to want him. Julius Jones is sickening to watch and his contract is up at the end of the year. Barber has been outstanding, but I honestly feel he would lose effectiveness in a full time capacity. At the same time, there are many unanswered questions. How would he react in a time share? ...I think I just answered that myself... McFadden currently shares carries with Felix Jones and has shown no signs of being disgruntled. Cool.
Well, what about money. With the amount of youth on the team and all the extensions that will be coming up, can we really afford to spluge on a RB? That would take out a major chunk of the cap between McFadden and Romo and T-New's new extensions. The RB class appears fairly deep. The Dallas running game is not in perils. Could we go for a cheaper option and pick up a RB later in the draft like Tashard Choice, Mike Hart, Allen Patrick, Yvenson Bernard (a personal fav)... perhaps an underclassman, Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice among others and still maintain a strong running game? I think so. Another issue could be with Barber. He's a RFA at the end of this year and UFA the following year. We want him to resign, no doubt. How would he feel performing on the same level as McFadden and making much less? In order to keep egos in check and salaries reasonable, we may have to avoid the temptation of selecting McFadden. And then there is the need factor. The Dallas offense is not holding us back from being a winning team. The defense on the other hand has real issues. The DL has not been meeting expectations and the secondary is porous. The needs are there. Draft value may not be there, so a trade down may not be out of the question with Dallas picking up a future first next year.

If we do stay at #2 where you project, an OT to replace Flozell Adams who is in the last year of his deal and should not be retained due to his plethora of penalties and deteriorized play.


Mike Jenkins - Dallas has another physical CB from South Florida in Anthony Henry. This could be a possibility with CB being a need. The rookie could be pasted right into the starting nickel spot right off the bat. One guy I like more than Jenkins is Terrell Thomas. I like his fit in this defense. Thoughts?

SuperKevin
09-25-2007, 08:12 PM
I would love that trade for Buffalo

neko4
09-25-2007, 08:32 PM
While I wouldnt mind having the overshadowed RB, Felix Jones, I feel your comments about Jackson are a bit off. Its really hard to explode when 300 pound linemen are in your face. Fortunetly the line is still getting better in run blocking. Like some of the suprise picks, especially Dre Moore

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Let's see. Random comments first:

1. Can't wait for Saints fans to roll around to this ... or Broncos fans. Couple other teams.

2. As of now, I really don't like this draft. Eh ... where's the impact.

Doingthisinsteadofwork - To be honest, our only disagreement last year was really on Jamarcus Russell (although if memory serves me correctly, I briefly switched to Calvin Johnson in one mock). So, yes, I believe you.

SuperKevin - That really would be ideal for the Bills.

etk - If Chucky is there, I think they wait on QB's, or sign a veteran to fix (Rex Grossman perhaps). If Chucky went QB, my gut instinct would be Matt Ryan, who seems more of a Chucky type QB than Brian Brohm. He already tried fitting someone into his system to mixed reviews (Chris Simms), and I just don't feel that Brohm is a much. Now, if Chucky is gone, then it's all up in the air. But just my take.

Comahan - Yeah I read some Bennett comments as well (chron?). Safety is a bigger concern, but no one is worth it there. And ... who at LB? Connor? He doesn't seem like a guy who stands out, IMO, to the point that he's a solid mid first pick. At least, that's my take right now. I always feel that, for a LB to go mid-first, more often than not, something has to really stand out, and I don't know if there is anything for Connor that fits that mold. Other than that, I gave brief thought to a young RB, and I was somewhat contemplating Sam Baker there just because he fell.

D-Unit - I didn't really look into the financials. I've got a hard time seeing a Jake Long pick by Jerry Jones. I could see OL at 31 (and later obviously). But with Free/Marten getting developed this year, dunno. Just don't see Long. But OL at 2 (or 1)? Just doesn't seem Jerry Jones-ish to me, although Long may actually work for you guys at LT.

Outside of that, nothing else really fits outside McFadden. DL value there is off (and no, I don't see you guys drafting Glenn Dorsey, and yes, I saw that thread). DL value for you guys is probably better in that 2nd/3rd round tiers. Safety value ... well maybe Kenny Phillips, but I don't think he's that good to be worth a 2nd overall. CB value there is bleh for now, IMO, and WR isn't really needed (along with LB). That said, you are right, those Romo/Newman extensions may impact things greatly. I don't think what Barber will want will impact things that much. He's nice, but I don't see him as a break the bank back, whereas McFadden would be potentially.

Anyhow, tis early.
Can't wait for the comments on the somewhat surprising picks I made.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 08:38 PM
While I wouldnt mind having the overshadowed RB, Felix Jones, I feel your comments about Jackson are a bit off. Its really hard to explode when 300 pound linemen are in your face. Fortunetly the line is still getting better in run blocking. Like some of the suprise picks, especially Dre Moore

Actually, you are right. I should've made a distinction between explosive and speed. He had good 3-cone and shuttle numbers if I remember. Actually, checking on nfldraftscout right now, he had better 3-cone and shuttle numbers than I remembered. They are better than Peterson's and Lynch's. So explosive was the wrong word. That said, I just think that getting someone with a bit more home run speed might be something they look after, and that's what I should've said.

Oh as for Terrell Thomas, I could see him there. But I think Jenkins has better tools, which might give him the nod. Jenkins reminds me a bit of Drayton Florence.

neko4
09-25-2007, 08:45 PM
Actually, you are right. I should've made a distinction between explosive and speed. He had good 3-cone and shuttle numbers if I remember. Actually, checking on nfldraftscout right now, he had better 3-cone and shuttle numbers than I remembered. They are better than Peterson's and Lynch's. So explosive was the wrong word. That said, I just think that getting someone with a bit more home run speed might be something they look after, and that's what I should've said.

Oh as for Terrell Thomas, I could see him there. But I think Jenkins has better tools, which might give him the nod. Jenkins reminds me a bit of Drayton Florence.

Well im a big Cason and Lowerey fan, but any good CB could do

D-Unit
09-25-2007, 08:54 PM
D-Unit - I didn't really look into the financials. I've got a hard time seeing a Jake Long pick by Jerry Jones. I could see OL at 31 (and later obviously). But with Free/Marten getting developed this year, dunno. Just don't see Long. But OL at 2 (or 1)? Just doesn't seem Jerry Jones-ish to me, although Long may actually work for you guys at LT.

Outside of that, nothing else really fits outside McFadden. DL value there is off (and no, I don't see you guys drafting Glenn Dorsey, and yes, I saw that thread). DL value for you guys is probably better in that 2nd/3rd round tiers. Safety value ... well maybe Kenny Phillips, but I don't think he's that good to be worth a 2nd overall. CB value there is bleh for now, IMO, and WR isn't really needed (along with LB). That said, you are right, those Romo/Newman extensions may impact things greatly. I don't think what Barber will want will impact things that much. He's nice, but I don't see him as a break the bank back, whereas McFadden would be potentially.

haha... you saw that thread? I know I'm trippin' in there, just bored with nothing else to debate about... it's fun taking the unconventional side once in a while.

I'm thinking that the CLE pick is more like 4-6 than #2, but if indeed we have the #2 pick, I think Jerry in his wheelin' and dealin' would try to trade down and get more picks. With who is the question.

Chucky
09-25-2007, 08:58 PM
I think Sam Baker would make a lot of sense there, It would give the bucs the best young O-line in football

JETS5128
09-25-2007, 08:59 PM
Like the jets pick, good job on the mock

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 09:02 PM
haha... you saw that thread? I know I'm trippin' in there, just bored with nothing else to debate about... it's fun taking the unconventional side once in a while.

I'm thinking that the CLE pick is more like 4-6 than #2, but if indeed we have the #2 pick, I think Jerry in his wheelin' and dealin' would try to trade down and get more picks. With who is the question.

ah, trading down ... yeah i probably should've given that more consideration. I just have this image of Jerry going after the big splash ... but trading down is also possible, especially if they don't drop too far. And there might be some teams interested in moving up, with the limited number of guys that really look like impact players.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 09:05 PM
I think Sam Baker would make a lot of sense there, It would give the bucs the best young O-line in football

It's certainly a tempting idea ... but at what point do you start looking for the playmaker that you guys are lacking? I mean, sure, when you pick mid-round receivers, you can find sleepers or (and not to pick on the Titans or anything), you can have a bunch of Brandon Jones, Courtney Roby, Roydell Williams, and Jonathan Orr types, some raw materials, but if they develop, it'll take time.

I do think one thing - If Chucky is there, and DeSean Jackson is there, I've got an awfully hard time seeing them pass up Jackson.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 09:06 PM
Like the jets pick, good job on the mock

ah, that was one that I was lukewarm on, more due to the fact that I don't have a good feel for the edge crowd this year, although Gholston seems like the one I like the best right now. Not huge on Harvey or Groves just yet, and Blake seems more 2nd round to me. But at the end of the day, times will dictate a lot with the edge crowd. On a side note, outside of edge, there really weren't many other options. Not really a DL guy I like taking there that makes sense, and not sold on OL.

Gridiron
09-25-2007, 09:16 PM
Great job.

Perfect Jets pick. That's the exact pick I see us making as well.

Chucky
09-25-2007, 09:19 PM
It's certainly a tempting idea ... but at what point do you start looking for the playmaker that you guys are lacking? I mean, sure, when you pick mid-round receivers, you can find sleepers or (and not to pick on the Titans or anything), you can have a bunch of Brandon Jones, Courtney Roby, Roydell Williams, and Jonathan Orr types, some raw materials, but if they develop, it'll take time.

I do think one thing - If Chucky is there, and DeSean Jackson is there, I've got an awfully hard time seeing them pass up Jackson.

I would love to take Jackson at that pick, I just think Baker is just too much value to take over doucet

D-Unit
09-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Mildly surprised that no one has brought up any comments on the Ryan Clady pick. Right now, I think you may be ahead of pack with that pick. I don't think anyone is talking about him that high yet, though I could fully see it. With everyone having a love fest over Long and Baker, Clady's name is really not getting the attention he deserves. I've always liked Clady right after Long, but this really gets me thinking. In the Dallas mock, I had us taking Clady with our second first rounder. This puts a stinker into that logic/hope. I like Clady a lot because I think he could be a very serviceable LT in the NFL for many years. He's got better footwork in pass protection than Long, though Long is probably the better run blocker. This is not saying that Long is bad in pass protection and Clady is bad in run blocking. Just that their strengths are different. I like Long as a LT in the NFL, but I LOVE him as a RT in the NFL. With Clady, if I'm looking for a LT, he may just end up trumping Long in the end. Clady has got the footwork, athleticism (I think Long can be stiff at times), and the controlled mean streak. I really like him, and was hoping he would slip in the draft, but that just may be my own false hopes.

Will he declare? I do think so.

neko4
09-25-2007, 09:29 PM
I felt (and correct me if im wrong) that Clady fit ATL's system and new look (big Lineman) for their offensive line better than Long

Long is big, but Clady is a bit heavier right?

D-Unit
09-25-2007, 09:31 PM
Great job.

Perfect Jets pick. That's the exact pick I see us making as well.
I think people are just infatuated with his forearms.

I don't know if I see Gholston as the top 3-4 OLB prospect in this draft. I question his range and whether or not he can hack it as a LB covering a lot of ground or dropping back in coverage. Run stopping and pressuring the QB would be strengths of his in that role, but I see him as a better fit as a 4-3 DE.

I do like Quentin Groves and perhaps Harvey as better fits in that role. Maybe even Chris Ellis or Bruce Davis. Not at that draft spot, but... just sayin' my 2 cents.

Gholston is definitely interesting there... Not saying it's wrong.

Bills2083
09-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Great job for the Bills there. I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Glenn Dorsey would make our Dline respectable. McCargo has been doing very well lately. Schobel has been slacking lately, but he's still a very good DE. I wouldn't mind picking up a true LE later on in the draft, seeing that Kelsay has been dissapointing (many missed tackles). I just dont see it happening though, after we gave him a $24 million extension

Man_Of_Steel
09-25-2007, 09:41 PM
First off really well done man, all the effort really shows up and makes it a more intriguing mock to me. Anyway Im not so sure that Clady will be the first lineman off the board but that is preference I suppose.
I doubt the Chargers take a RB with LT, I understand that Turner will be gone but I just dont think you can justify taking a first round RB to be a career backup to a future HOF.
Secondly the Steelers pick, I like. I am alone in the Steelers forum in thinking that a day 1 pick should be spent on a RB, glad to see someone agrees. Stewart is an intriguing prospect and runs with the power that we love. Parker/Stewart combo would be exceptional. So if a Stewart or another top RB is there (Run DMC, Slaton, Stewart) I say take him, otherwise O-line is our biggest concern and one likley to be addressed multiple times on draft day.

Caddy
09-25-2007, 10:07 PM
Rex Grossman in Tampa Bay? I sure hope not. But in regards to the pick, wide receiver is a decent option in round one and Early Doucet will probably warrant a high pick however it is slightly dissapointing to see Desean go one slot earlier. Sam Baker is also a decent option there like you alluded to however Luke Petitgout is doing a decent enough job for the short term as it is.

wiscbadgerfootball
09-25-2007, 10:10 PM
oh wow amazingly detailed mock.. Packers pick is pretty good and I'm glad to see Ikegwuonu in the 1st

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:17 PM
Mildly surprised that no one has brought up any comments on the Ryan Clady pick. Right now, I think you may be ahead of pack with that pick. I don't think anyone is talking about him that high yet, though I could fully see it. With everyone having a love fest over Long and Baker, Clady's name is really not getting the attention he deserves. I've always liked Clady right after Long, but this really gets me thinking. In the Dallas mock, I had us taking Clady with our second first rounder. This puts a stinker into that logic/hope. I like Clady a lot because I think he could be a very serviceable LT in the NFL for many years. He's got better footwork in pass protection than Long, though Long is probably the better run blocker. This is not saying that Long is bad in pass protection and Clady is bad in run blocking. Just that their strengths are different. I like Long as a LT in the NFL, but I LOVE him as a RT in the NFL. With Clady, if I'm looking for a LT, he may just end up trumping Long in the end. Clady has got the footwork, athleticism (I think Long can be stiff at times), and the controlled mean streak. I really like him, and was hoping he would slip in the draft, but that just may be my own false hopes.

Will he declare? I do think so.

Main reason why no one's talked about him that much is, and I haven't seen much of Boise State this year, is he's sucked so far. Well, sucked relatively to what he should be capable of. Definitely a major projection move there, although love the upside.

But yes, the upside on Clady is big. And the rumors do seem to point to him declaring, with all the talk about all the time he spent this summer researching agents (or something like that). Granted, all players do a bit of that, but the rumors were heavy on his intent. Although ... a bad year, and then the decision is probably made for him.

I expect to see a lot of underclassmen in this draft, largely because of what I (and others) perceive to be a weak top tier out of this senior class.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:18 PM
I felt (and correct me if im wrong) that Clady fit ATL's system and new look (big Lineman) for their offensive line better than Long

Long is big, but Clady is a bit heavier right?

about the same, i think. Both are in that 315-325 range, I think.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:20 PM
Great job for the Bills there. I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Glenn Dorsey would make our Dline respectable. McCargo has been doing very well lately. Schobel has been slacking lately, but he's still a very good DE. I wouldn't mind picking up a true LE later on in the draft, seeing that Kelsay has been dissapointing (many missed tackles). I just dont see it happening though, after we gave him a $24 million extension

I'd love to see the Bills add a disruptor like Dorsey and use another day 1 pick on a real good edge threat. As intriguing as the defense is on paper at times, the front 4, IMO, is still lacking. I know Kelsay has had flashes, but never big on him, and Hargrove seems to disappear.

That said, agreed in that I don't see the Bills taking 2 DL that early in the draft. Maybe a midround guy. I could see Bruce Davis potentially, if he's there, say, in the 4th.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:22 PM
First off really well done man, all the effort really shows up and makes it a more intriguing mock to me. Anyway Im not so sure that Clady will be the first lineman off the board but that is preference I suppose.
I doubt the Chargers take a RB with LT, I understand that Turner will be gone but I just dont think you can justify taking a first round RB to be a career backup to a future HOF.
Secondly the Steelers pick, I like. I am alone in the Steelers forum in thinking that a day 1 pick should be spent on a RB, glad to see someone agrees. Stewart is an intriguing prospect and runs with the power that we love. Parker/Stewart combo would be exceptional. So if a Stewart or another top RB is there (Run DMC, Slaton, Stewart) I say take him, otherwise O-line is our biggest concern and one likley to be addressed multiple times on draft day.

To be honest, I got lazy as this got along and just shot from the hip there. That said, at some point, there has to be worries about the wear and tear on Fast Willie, and OG help can be found later, and it's questionable if the OT value is significantly different from, say, the late first to the third (keyword significantly). With LT still fine, the look is at RT, and hence why I think OL can wait a bit. But that's me ...

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:23 PM
Rex Grossman in Tampa Bay? I sure hope not. But in regards to the pick, wide receiver is a decent option in round one and Early Doucet will probably warrant a high pick however it is slightly dissapointing to see Desean go one slot earlier. Sam Baker is also a decent option there like you alluded to however Luke Petitgout is doing a decent enough job for the short term as it is.

Don't you just get the feeling that Rex is the type of reclamation project that Chucky would like? He's got the skillset that Chucky looks for in his QB's. At least, I do. It was just food for thought.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:24 PM
oh wow amazingly detailed mock.. Packers pick is pretty good and I'm glad to see Ikegwuonu in the 1st

I like Ikegwuonu ... although that was a borderline decision. I think he's a late first to say early 3rd at this early junction (I don't think the grade differences are all that much, hence the range - a lot of similar corners). I just think there's a greater chance of a team moving Ikegwuonu to safety than a few other guys, and I really got lazy towards the end of this mock, so got tired thinking. I think he's a possible first ... but times will tell the story.

As for the Packers ... I'm surprised that the reaction has been positive to Felix Jones. Mildly surprised.

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 11:30 PM
You definately think outside the box Tooney..there are 3-4 guys I've honestly never heard of (not that I've ever claimed to be a college football expert). I'm sure that by the time draft rolls around I'll do a little catch-up. A little anyway....

Funny you should mention Chucky and Grossman btw. I'm thinking total opposite. Remember what offense was originally brought in for Grossman? Can you say Mike Martz? Let that mo'fucka sling the ball baby!!

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:39 PM
Critiquing my own draft:

The first pick that draws attention is the Ryan Clady pick. His inconsistencies early this year have to be troubling. It really is more of an upside move, as the size and footwork definitely draw attention. If he doesn't turn it around, then no, he's not up here and is more of a 2nd/3rd rounder.

QB's going so low - I think this was partially my bias. I wanted to get one up earlier. I think, as much as I hate it, reality is that, the odds are that a QB will go quite high. I don't like it ... but I think that's the reality of it.

A Dolphins fan should post because I'm not sure Ilove that Jake Long pick. What does he really offer to the Fins in particular to make it a worthwhile pick, instead of waiting until the 2nd round for, say, Barry Richardson?

Minnesota taking a QB? Do they have the time for that? One would think a better veteran would be brought in to bridge the gap.

Is Cherilus really a top 10 worthy pick? I don't like it ...

Detroit and Kenny Phillips? I really didn't love that either. But that may be my own views on taking safeties early in the draft ... which is, uh, I'm not big on that.

St. Louis and Sedrick Ellis when the problems have been more with the run? They might as well slide Adeyanju inside and see how he does.

Can't believe very few have commented on Dre' Moore. Maybe I've been off with the news. I like Moore, but I definitely scratched my head when I made that move.

I'm really not sold that I see any edge guy going in the top 15 ... but I got stuck with the Jets in having to make a move, and there's no real need for ILB/CB here. WR perhaps but that seems unlikely to me for some reason ... there isn't a dynamic TE, and hard to see OL here, and RB seems doubtful to me as well, unless THomas Jones slows done a lot or gets hurt. Hmm ... maybe RB deserves more consideration.

Giants and Keith Rivers? Is LB really a need? Wilkinson is still there as a backup, Kawika Mitchell is one of those decent LB's that move around. I mean Sam Baker was on the board, and I really am not in love with Diehl/Whimper as long term optins at LT.

Buccaneers and Doucet in that, Doucet doesn't provide the pure speed that Chucky likes.

To be honest, I've got no feel for where the Bengals should go. Should probably check contract situations, I guess. With Geathers there, and Smith ... that seems like a bad move to get Lawrence Jackson, but I can't help but think they'd be better off with more pressure options. But where else to go, then?

Does Seattle really need Sam Baker? Great value admittedly. This is still a team built to win now, so how much would Baker help in that regards?

Is Davis really the 2nd back off the board after further consideration? But that also begs the question - what else? DL seems unlikely here, a bit due to fit (although if Murray climbs into the first round ... he'd fit). CB seems unlikely, OL was a brief thought. WR?

Does Arizona really need an edge guy when Dansby can be utilized in that role, along with Calvin Pace and Darryl Blackstock (granted, he might be gone)?

I wasn't in love with the Carolina Ikegwuonu pick ... but where else?

Is Wheeler a fit for Baltimore? Granted, they usually adjust to the talent very well.

Maurice Murray? Who dat? Joking obviously, but is he even a first day pick? I have a tendency to bump up some guys early, as older posters know, before settling them down.

Jacksonville and another WR? Would they really try to be the poor man's version of Matt Millen?

Jensen
09-25-2007, 11:40 PM
Cardinals pick is pretty good, CB could be good there too.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:41 PM
You definately think outside the box Tooney..there are 3-4 guys I've honestly never heard of (not that I've ever claimed to be a college football expert). I'm sure that by the time draft rolls around I'll do a little catch-up. A little anyway....

Funny you should mention Chucky and Grossman btw. I'm thinking total opposite. Remember what offense was originally brought in for Grossman? Can you say Mike Martz? Let that mo'fucka sling the ball baby!!

Tools wise, though, I think Grossman fits what Chucky may want with some mobility and a strong arm, and Rex HAD the attitude that Chucky may like. He also has the deep arm to utilize. Dunno, just think it might be a possibility ... wherever Chucky lands. He likes collecting his QB's, that's for sure.

Turtlepower
09-25-2007, 11:42 PM
I really think as time goes by Keith Rivers might end up being a lock for the Giants if the are picking in the 12-16 range. Yes, the Giants passing defense is horrid, but their is not a really good value CB at the time and people forget a major weakness in our passing defense is coverage from LBs. Mitchell is just plain horrible on defense and Kiwi doesn't know how to cover and will most likely be a DE come the end of the year. Rivers has the speed and the mentality to keep up with the deadly pass-catching TEs in the NFC East. Giants mock gets an A.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:42 PM
Cardinals pick is pretty good, CB could be good there too.

Really? I dunno ... seemed somewhat weak on paper. Aren't you guys shifting (or have shifted) to a hybrid D CB is a good thought that I probably didn't give enough thought to.

toonsterwu
09-25-2007, 11:44 PM
I really think as time goes by Keith Rivers might end up being a lock for the Giants if the are picking in the 12-16 range. Yes, the Giants passing defense is horrid, but their is not a really good value CB at the time and people forget a major weakness in our passing defense is coverage from LBs. Mitchell is just plain horrible on defense and Kiwi doesn't know how to cover and will most likely be a DE come the end of the year. Rivers has the speed and the mentality to keep up with the deadly pass-catching TEs in the NFC East. Giants mock gets an A.

Hmm ... interesting ... it was a pick that I wasn't sure about (as noted in my critique of myself). Does make sense know that you mention it, as a rangy guy might be of help. No hope for Gerris Wilkinson (haven't paid attention)?

I do think Rivers it the top backer in the draft, though.

Vikes99ej
09-25-2007, 11:52 PM
Approvable Vikings pick.

Turtlepower
09-25-2007, 11:56 PM
Hmm ... interesting ... it was a pick that I wasn't sure about (as noted in my critique of myself). Does make sense know that you mention it, as a rangy guy might be of help. No hope for Gerris Wilkinson (haven't paid attention)?

I do think Rivers it the top backer in the draft, though.

I think it has to do with something you mentioned earlier. Even though Baker would fill a much more need, there is some OL depth in this draft and if we could get Barry Richardson or Tony Hills in the second, I would be pleased.

Mitchell is gone after this year and I think Wilkinson could start, but I see Kiwi moving back to DE after this experiment, so a weakside LB is still a need. I agree that Keith Rivers is on my board as the #1 OLB. If you watch a USC game, he is always around the ball.

It is tough to pass on a franchise LT, but our defense is so porous, unless we solve it in the offseason prior to the draft, I see no way of not drafting to help it in the first.

D-Unit
09-26-2007, 12:10 AM
I must say 2 more big surprises for me were seeing Dre Moore and Felix Jones in Round 1. Are you projecting Steve Slaton in this draft? Not that I think he's a first rounder himself, cause I don't think he is... but I like him better than Jones. Jones has speed, but he runs to upright for me and he's not AD. The only RBs I consider first rounders now are McFadden and Stewart. I think Mike Hart is overrated, but I would take him before Felix as well. I'm not claiming to be the know all, but how do you see Felix going that high?

Dre Moore in round 1 is also very surprising. What exactly are you hearing about him? With Okam having motor concerns, I can understand his fall, but NFL guys do go nuts over size.

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 12:17 AM
I must say 2 more big surprises for me were seeing Dre Moore and Felix Jones in Round 1. Are you projecting Steve Slaton in this draft? Not that I think he's a first rounder himself, cause I don't think he is... but I like him better than Jones. Jones has speed, but he runs to upright for me and he's not AD. The only RBs I consider first rounders now are McFadden and Stewart. I think Mike Hart is overrated, but I would take him before Felix as well. I'm not claiming to be the know all, but how do you see Felix going that high?

Dre Moore in round 1 is also very surprising. What exactly are you hearing about him? With Okam having motor concerns, I can understand his fall, but NFL guys do go nuts over size.

I really haven't been following anything at all this year. This was more a shoot off the hip off the little I've seen. That said, from the Maryland games I've seen, Moore seems to be getting a better push, and combined with his size and rumored quality numbers, while still being solid against the run, it was a shot in the dark on a rise.

As for Jones, my thought process was this - Numbers. I've heard that he might post some really top numbers, and I think that may lead him to rising up. I'm not a huge Slaton in round 1 guy ... just not sure I see it. I wouldn't rule it out late first at all, and the difference between Jones/Slaton/Hart is minimal for me. With Hart, it's sort of like a poor man's Cadillac Williams. He's a tough, smart player, but I just don't think there's enough tools to warrant a first round nod. In short, I'm not saying I like Jones ... just saying I think he might rise, and he cuts well enough from what I've seen. I agree in that I think he exposes his body too much at times, although I do get the weird feeling that, sometimes, he does a good job of protecting himself going through the hole, and it's more than when he passes the hole he tries to burst, and that leads him more upright (not saying all the time, just some of the times). I think the thing with Felix and Darren that is remarkable is that both protect their body fairly well, Darren moreso than Felix.

M.O.T.H.
09-26-2007, 12:47 AM
Love the boys draft...Mcfadden and Jenkins.

Would actually be my ideal draft. Mcfadden and a corner...Jenkins has some question marks...that may scare some teams off...injury, off the field problems, footwork, open field tackling...Late first, early second seems about right, right now. Not a bad pick imo.

D-Unit
09-26-2007, 01:09 AM
Love the boys draft...Mcfadden and Jenkins.

Would actually be my ideal draft. Mcfadden and a corner...Jenkins has some question marks...that may scare some teams off...injury, off the field problems, footwork, open field tackling...Late first, early second seems about right, right now. Not a bad pick imo.
At 2 and 31, give me Jake Long and Terrell Thomas.

M.O.T.H.
09-26-2007, 01:25 AM
At 2 and 31, give me Jake Long and Terrell Thomas.

Thomas injury history is scary as well but, I'm def. a fan.

As for Long...I have confidence in Free. Granted we havent seen much of him but, he has all the intangibles you look for in stud LT. He may not be as dominate as Long but, Free has him beat in the footwork and mobility departments. (Free's the better athlete) I want to see what we have in him. No reason to pull the plug before, we even see what we got.

D-Unit
09-26-2007, 01:28 AM
Thomas injury history is scary as well but, I'm def. a fan.

As for Long...I have confidence in Free. Granted we havent seen much of him but, he has all the intangibles you look for in stud LT. He may not be as dominate as Long but, Free has him beat in the footwork and mobility departments. (Free's the better athlete) I want to see what we have in him. No reason to pull the plug before, we even see what we got.
Move Free to OG to groom under Kosier.

thule
09-26-2007, 01:31 AM
Jenkins is the guy who we could Groom...but Cason is the guy who could really come in and make a difference right away. I would love to see return ability in the corner we take...but now I"m gettin pushy.

thule
09-26-2007, 01:32 AM
Move Free to OG to groom under Kosier.

Free is great because of his feet....why move him inside and neutralize his greatest strength. Like I said earlier....if anyone moves inside it's Marten...he was actually rumored as a tweener before the senior bowl. I would much rather have Marten on the inside than Free.

M.O.T.H.
09-26-2007, 01:40 AM
Free is great because of his feet....why move him inside and neutralize his greatest strength. Like I said earlier....if anyone moves inside it's Marten...he was actually rumored as a tweener before the senior bowl. I would much rather have Marten on the inside than Free.

I have to agree here.

I really dont see us going T early in this draft.

M.O.T.H.
09-26-2007, 01:51 AM
Jenkins is the guy who we could Groom...but Cason is the guy who could really come in and make a difference right away. I would love to see return ability in the corner we take...but now I"m gettin pushy.

I think Jenkins would do fine in a nickel role right away. Tackling may be a bit of an issue but, he is a great cover guy. I think he could help out right away.

I like Antoine but, that speed may be a question...he's probably a mid-late 4.5 type guy...he may even hit 4.6. Great hands, great tackler, great in coverage...but, he's lacking in the speed department. His 40 time will be huge in his draft placement. I know he joined track...hopefully, it helps when he runs his 40.

D-Unit
09-26-2007, 01:57 AM
Free is great because of his feet....why move him inside and neutralize his greatest strength. Like I said earlier....if anyone moves inside it's Marten...he was actually rumored as a tweener before the senior bowl. I would much rather have Marten on the inside than Free.
Since when do guards with great feet become a bad thing? You have to take Long at #2. Nothing else makes sense, except trading and that's not what we're talking about here. IF we're at 2 and sticking w/the pick, it's Long. At the very least it provides options. You can leave Free at LT, move Marten to LG and Long to RT. Or Long at LT, Free at LG and Marten at RT. Or whatever. The only positions worth spending that kind of money on are QB, OT, CB, or DE.

M.O.T.H.
09-26-2007, 02:05 AM
We never draft O-Lineman in the first, why start now? Especially, when we have a pretty talented player already manning Long's projected position.

I think Mcfadden makes the most sense...JJ wanted AD last season to team up w/ Barber...now we're in position to draft another sure thing RB w/ Arkansas ties...I dont think JJ could/would pass on the opportunity.

D-Unit
09-26-2007, 02:22 AM
We never draft O-Lineman in the first, why start now? Especially, when we have a pretty talented player already manning Long's projected position.

I think Mcfadden makes the most sense...JJ wanted AD last season to team up w/ Barber...now we're in position to draft another sure thing RB w/ Arkansas ties...I dont think JJ could/would pass on the opportunity.
McFadden doesn't make the most sense. I don't get where the logic says, "since we never did it in the past, we won't do it in future". Do you know how silly that sounds?

OK, let's say we spend the money on McFadden. IF and that's a big IF he gets to us. That's a ton of money spent on RB. Jamarcus just got what 68M??? Factor in yearly increases, McFadden should get over 60M at least at the #2 pick. Then when Free establishes himself (IF he establishes himself) at LT as you hope, then we'll have to spend big money on him at LT. Do we have the cap? No.

Take Long, get another RB later (yes, they do grow on trees) at a cheaper rate and make a savvy GM move by doing so. Extend Romo, extend MB3, extend T-New, extend Ware, and extend Hamlin. If you sign McFadden and Free to big deals (yes, Free as a LT will get paid handsomely if he pans out like you hope), then you won't get all those guys to come back.

WMD
09-26-2007, 03:36 AM
I don't see why Dallas would feel the need to move up to #1 for McFadden.. I highly doubt Buffalo would take him.. Unless someone else was in serious talks with the Bills about the #1 Pick.

Also as far as the Lions pick with Kenny Phillips.. I like it. Though we did spend a Round 2 on a Safety, Gerald Alexander, last year.. he would be a solid Cover 2 Corner as well. We NEED Pass Defense help.. ANY DB would be an improvement.. MLB is also a need, but I think in order for us to do anything, we need to improve our Pass D.

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 03:46 AM
I don't see why Dallas would feel the need to move up to #1 for McFadden.. I highly doubt Buffalo would take him.. Unless someone else was in serious talks with the Bills about the #1 Pick.

Also as far as the Lions pick with Kenny Phillips.. I like it. Though we did spend a Round 2 on a Safety, Gerald Alexander, last year.. he would be a solid Cover 2 Corner as well. We NEED Pass Defense help.. ANY DB would be an improvement.. MLB is also a need, but I think in order for us to do anything, we need to improve our Pass D.

I was contemplating Atlanta moving up for McFadden originally, so yes, in my mind, there was competition.

Caddy
09-26-2007, 03:55 AM
Don't you just get the feeling that Rex is the type of reclamation project that Chucky would like? He's got the skillset that Chucky looks for in his QB's. At least, I do. It was just food for thought.

Unfortunately I do think it is definitely something Gruden would consider which is why it disgusts me so much. He is quite renowned for not being a fan of young QB's and Grossman appears to be one of the top FA's (weird to say) now that Boller and Leftwich are off the market. Hopefully Gruden sees the light and looks to the draft for a guy to develop behind Garcia.

falconsrule
09-26-2007, 07:28 AM
I was contemplating Atlanta moving up for McFadden originally, so yes, in my mind, there was competition.

I also think atlanta will jump at the chance to get McFadden if the oppertunity comes.Arthur Blank might be looking for a big name player to sell tickets and get a good buzz going with the Falcons organization.

princefielder28
09-26-2007, 09:35 AM
I'm not sold on Jackson at all and find it hard to believe TT would draft a RB, but Jones would be an exciting player to see

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 11:13 AM
Well, he did almost draft Marshawn Lynch, by most accounts, this past year (had Lynch been available ... I guess we'll never know). That said ... what else would the team target in the first, at that position? OL isn't needed, WR is probably a no. A TE might be intriguing ... but is anyone really worth it? If someone puts up better numbers than expected, then perhaps. I'm not a Rodgers fan ... but even I'd say give the kid a shot before drafting another QB in the first. DL seems like a no at that point unless something bad (injury) happens. LB is a no. DB is a perhaps ... but safety value can be found later, and I just didn't think CB ranked ahead of RB.

SuperMcGee
09-26-2007, 01:32 PM
If Bills are getting first overall, I couldn't ask for much more than that.

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 02:12 PM
fine, you got me.

i dislike denver going DT again this year, for the simple reason that both of our safeties and one of our linebackers are absolutely terrible. it seems alsmot inconceivable to me that, barring some amazing turnaround, DJ williams will still be our MLB next year. i'm not sure that webster will be either. and ian gold might be the worst linebacker in the afc west. beyond that, neither of our safeties are effective in pass coverage, and nick ferguson is mediocre at best in run support. those seem like the more obvious positions to address. even LT seems likely, given that lepsis has looked flat out bad this season.

all that said, i have no idea what kinds of players would be available at that point in the draft (though that draft position seems fairly optimistic, not that that's relevant either), so i'm not sure if the talent is there at any of those positions by then. if it's not, i certainly wouldn't mind another DT for the rotation.


If a safety emerges, sure, I could see that. It's just, after Phillips, the options all look like midround picks to me as of now.

Admittedly, LB didn't cross my mind that much. That said, I'm not sure if

a) There's a MIKE fit
b) There's MIKE value

Maybe Laurinaitis if he comes out. Or maybe a Dan Connor move to MIKE.

As for LT ... I guess I just get sucked into the whole Denver will wait on OL and didn't consider it.

As for positioning, as of now, I still think Denver can win the AFC West. Not sure if the wildcard teams I have (Baltimore/Jacksonville) will finish with a better on account of their tough divisions. Outside of Dallas, no one in the NFC looks like they are going to have a stellar record. Parity ... it's happening.

Of course, I have a tendency to jinx the Broncos.

HChu
09-26-2007, 02:18 PM
Really like the Redskins pick, and where you have them is pretty much where I expect the team to be at the end of the season. Of course I hope we'll be picking much later, or even keep the pick at all, actually I think that's the better plan keep our first round pick is the most I'm hoping for from the Redskins.

SeanTaylorRIP
09-26-2007, 03:32 PM
Really like the Redskins pick, and where you have them is pretty much where I expect the team to be at the end of the season. Of course I hope we'll be picking much later, or even keep the pick at all, actually I think that's the better plan keep our first round pick is the most I'm hoping for from the Redskins.

Very true, we try to find a way every damn year to get rid of our picks, we are still paying the damages for our past mistakes.

scottyboy
09-26-2007, 03:50 PM
i love the Rivers pick, but it just makes too much sense to happen. OT's are pretty deep this year and i'd love if the g-men grabbed Zuttah or Sosa later on. Rivers give us a guy who can cover and hit, and would improve our D that much more. I'm actually pretty happy with teh way Diehl's been playing. Whimper is awful, but Diehl has been very good. is he a long term solution on LT? not sure. But he's looked very good there so far

T-RICH49
09-26-2007, 08:51 PM
Why Cherilus over Baker?

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 11:35 PM
Really like the Redskins pick, and where you have them is pretty much where I expect the team to be at the end of the season. Of course I hope we'll be picking much later, or even keep the pick at all, actually I think that's the better plan keep our first round pick is the most I'm hoping for from the Redskins.

Ha, true. That said, as a partial Redskins follower, my only hope for this year is to see Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery step forward. If they take a couple steps forward, the future of that defense looks much rosier. They don't have to be dominant, just solid. But yeah, keeping the pick would be nice. I think much depends on what Gibbs does. Seems like it'll be his last year, though.

toonsterwu
09-26-2007, 11:37 PM
Why Cherilus over Baker?

To be honest, I was asking myself that after I made the mock. I guess I think Cherilus is a bit better than Baker in the run game (my opinion) than Baker is to Cherilus in pass protection, so hence, the nod to Cherilus. But I may have to rethink all that. I don't like Cherilus that high.

Shiver
09-27-2007, 03:34 AM
I have to question the Atlanta pick. Obviously LT is a major need area, but I find it hard to believe that Petrino would pass on a franchise QB that he could mold to be 'his guy.' Maybe that's Brohm, I don't know, I am really more of a Andre Woodson guy myself.

Xiomera
09-27-2007, 07:29 AM
You did a good thing with that Kenny Phillips to DET pick . . .

toonsterwu
09-27-2007, 07:47 AM
I have to question the Atlanta pick. Obviously LT is a major need area, but I find it hard to believe that Petrino would pass on a franchise QB that he could mold to be 'his guy.' Maybe that's Brohm, I don't know, I am really more of a Andre Woodson guy myself.

Honest question ... is Petrino going to end up having personnel decision?

A 2nd thought process was moving up for McFadden and then taking whatever QB falls into place ... but that seems unlikely to me for some reason.

Another option I contemplated was making a move for Dorsey ... but that would limit their possibilities as well ...

And of course, I did give the QB possibility a thought, because then they could stay put and take the best OL/RB combination in round 2

My original thinking was that (avoiding whether or not Clady can work his way up there, let's assume he can for the moment)

a) Andre' Woodson was far and away the top QB for me "on the board"
b) Petrino might prefer Brian Brohm

and hence, the gamble on another position, before using their additional assets to get aggressive and move up ... I think the way the order is set up, there's only a few targets that may have legitimate interest in QB's prior to say, Chicago on the board ... I was thinking Minnesota and Kansas City ...

So I guess a side question is, would KC pass on a QB ... and I've never gotten a good enough feel on Peterson to have any idea on that ... but once, in this scenario, KC passed on a QB ... Atlanta "worked the phones" and moved back up ...

But yeah, that was the thought process

Scotty D
09-27-2007, 07:50 AM
Kenny Phillips is a pretty good Lions pick, but no Dan Connor in the first? Where would Rivers play in our defense? I'm intrigued by him.

toonsterwu
09-27-2007, 08:31 AM
Rivers is probably better off as a WILL backer, but obviously, that position's filled. I do think he could probably be fine as a MIKE or SAM in the 2-tampa.

I'm just not in love with Dan Connor as others are. Here's the thing ... does he have elite physical tools? Because, if not, I think there's a great chance that he falls (I mean, I've seen some folks with him in the top 15), because, well, that's how it sometimes goes for linebackers. I remember being somewhat shocked at Keith Bulluck taking a tumble. It just happens with linebackers. Btw, just to be clear, not sayng Dan Connor won't be good ... just not sold on high draft value. I do think Keith Rivers is the number 1 backer for me ... not sure who's 2 ...

Auron
09-27-2007, 10:03 AM
Let's see. Random comments first:

1. Can't wait for Saints fans to roll around to this ...


Admittedly I haven't seen much of Moore, but what warrants such a high rise in your opinion? If based on projected combine numbers it kind of alarms me. Simply because I think if we're picking in that range Payton really has to be careful to avoid repeating the Johnathon Sullivan disaster that Haslett made a few years back which really set us back.

Regardless a big time Impact Defensive player is sorely needed in the middle of that Defense in NO. There has to be some tenacity, and physicality. Still really early but if we can come away with someone like Ellis, Connor, Maualuga (pipedream:trade up for Dorsey) or even someone like Rivers. If we opt to replace Shanle on the weak side.

Now that I'm thinking Draft and starting to look a little deeper I think we may opt to add more physicality and talent on a massively underperforming Offensive Line, might have to look into a later round Power back to compliment Reggie as it pains me to say but Deuce might be done.

thebow305
09-27-2007, 10:45 AM
good Miami pick, but I would rather get a tackle like Barry Richardson or someone like that later and address our secondary by drafting Kenny Phillips. We must get younger on Defense.

toonsterwu
09-27-2007, 01:17 PM
Admittedly I haven't seen much of Moore, but what warrants such a high rise in your opinion? If based on projected combine numbers it kind of alarms me. Simply because I think if we're picking in that range Payton really has to be careful to avoid repeating the Johnathon Sullivan disaster that Haslett made a few years back which really set us back.

Regardless a big time Impact Defensive player is sorely needed in the middle of that Defense in NO. There has to be some tenacity, and physicality. Still really early but if we can come away with someone like Ellis, Connor, Maualuga (pipedream:trade up for Dorsey) or even someone like Rivers. If we opt to replace Shanle on the weak side.

Now that I'm thinking Draft and starting to look a little deeper I think we may opt to add more physicality and talent on a massively underperforming Offensive Line, might have to look into a later round Power back to compliment Reggie as it pains me to say but Deuce might be done.

Hey, I didn't get shelled by a Saints fan. Mildly surprised there, although here's my case for Moore (or more, how he's different from Sullivan). I personally believe that, in Sullivan's case, there was a lot more projection. You saw the flashes of dominance in college, but you also saw the inconsistencies, but due to the physical tools, you thought, hey, it might happen. I think this was the case for his pass rush, as well as his run D.

With Moore, I think you are getting a guy who is sound in the run D. He's solid there, and I'll be surprised if he isn't at least solid in that regards at the next level. I think you are seeing the signs of a guy (or at least, I hope) who may emerge as a better pass rusher. The tools seem to be there for him to be dominant. From a draft perspective, I think this will be like the draft of a few years back where tools will move some folks up. I think this draft is thin at the top, and at DT, after Dorsey and Ellis (and both of them are more pass-rushers, still capable against the run, but not top shelf run stoppers), the DT class things out, and the big man theory (whatever that thing is called again) may potentially lead some DT's to rise if they have the tools for it.

Now, let me be clear. I'm not saying Moore (and Maurice Murray) are going to work their way up as high as I have them. It was just more, it's early, so have some fun with things and mix some things up (I think the potential exists that they move up ... only time will tell).

toonsterwu
09-27-2007, 01:18 PM
good Miami pick, but I would rather get a tackle like Barry Richardson or someone like that later and address our secondary by drafting Kenny Phillips. We must get younger on Defense.

A DB that early? I love Phillips, only safety that I think is first round worthy (heck not sure there's another safety that's 2nd round worthy right now ... ) ... but on a team with multiple areas of need, is it worth it? Why not Calais Campbell?

Shiver
09-27-2007, 02:32 PM
Honest question ... is Petrino going to end up having personnel decision?

Rich McKay has the final say on personnel decisions. However, the pressure is on Blank, Petrino and McKay to get a franchise QB to make the fan base forget about Michael Vick, whom the city in general still adores.

My original thinking was that (avoiding whether or not Clady can work his way up there, let's assume he can for the moment)

a) Andre' Woodson was far and away the top QB for me "on the board"
b) Petrino might prefer Brian Brohm

and hence, the gamble on another position, before using their additional assets to get aggressive and move up ... I think the way the order is set up, there's only a few targets that may have legitimate interest in QB's prior to say, Chicago on the board ... I was thinking Minnesota and Kansas City ...

So I guess a side question is, would KC pass on a QB ... and I've never gotten a good enough feel on Peterson to have any idea on that ... but once, in this scenario, KC passed on a QB ... Atlanta "worked the phones" and moved back up ...

But yeah, that was the thought process

I too am a Woodson fan. I think the Brohm pick makes sense; however, the team did pass on Amobi Okoye and Michael Bush last year, so by no means are they locked on to Louisville players.

toonsterwu
09-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Rich McKay has the final say on personnel decisions. However, the pressure is on Blank, Petrino and McKay to get a franchise QB to make the fan base forget about Michael Vick, whom the city in general still adores.



I too am a Woodson fan. I think the Brohm pick makes sense; however, the team did pass on Amobi Okoye and Michael Bush last year, so by no means are they locked on to Louisville players.

The more I think about it, the next time, I'll probably switch it up. Largely because, with that 1st and 2 2nds, a lot of needs can be addressed, and dealing away assets might not make the most sense.

On a side note, passing on Okoye wasn't that surprising (although I had it mocked that way because there were rumors on that) due to your positional depth charts. That said, I do think you guys could definitely use a DT this coming offseason.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-27-2007, 08:01 PM
Just a few things that I noted as I read this mock:

- Does Atlanta try and re-vitalize their team by drafting an offensive lineman? I'm not saying quarterback is a lock, nor am I saying that Clady wouldn't be a valuable addition, but I kinda picture a team like Atlanta trying to make the flashy move on draft day to energize their fan base.

- God knows I'd love Calais Campbell in Oakland, but even with Quentin Moses being cut before the regular season, the Raiders have two players that Rob Ryan loves in Tommy Kelly and Jay Richardson playing right end. Still, probably the best pick at that point (I'd still be surprised if Oakland didn't add an impact offensive player).

- Not a fan of Cherilus @ #7, but I mostly agree with the analysis.

- Does St. Louis really go for an undertackle a year after picking Adam Carriker?

- I had San Diego taking Davis in the 1st round in my last mock too, but I also envisioned San Diego picking somewhere between 30-32. It is a talented team, but I'd be surprised if they spend a high 20's 1st rounder on an obvious position of strength, especially with the way that secondary has played.

Other than that, I had a hard time finding things to nitpick. As always, it was a good read Toonster.

mqtirishfan
09-27-2007, 08:41 PM
Does Arizona really need an edge guy when Dansby can be utilized in that role, along with Calvin Pace and Darryl Blackstock (granted, he might be gone)?



Hmm... I like the pick of an edge guy in 'Zona. Dansby is more of an inside guy in a 3-4, IMO, and Pace is a bust.

derza222
09-28-2007, 11:55 AM
Fantastic mock as always toonster. Jets pick is solid, could see it happening. That said, you kind of focused on needs, front 7 and and O-line in particular. The big knock on the Jets is our lack of talent. And it's true, we aren't particularly strong at many positions. That said I think we take the BPA on the board excluding a few positions, namely QB (Clemens is the future), LT (too much invested in D'Brick, though if we're in a spot to take Long...probably take him and put him on the right side, and C (Mangold). Probably not taking a guard where we are in the first either, and unless somebody shoots up boards a tight end, but anyways...as long as the guy fits our schemes if he's clearly BPA anywhere else (any defensive guy that fits our scheme, bruising RB for down the road, WR, OL) I think we take him.


Also, with the Bengals pick you said you didn't see LB there. Not sure if you meant based on needs or who was available. Most of their linebackers are going to be free agents after this season and I think that their LB core, particularly at weakside, is going to be a BIG need going into this draft.

Go_Eagles77
09-28-2007, 07:43 PM
Like the eagles pick, he should be able to be a good return man too which is a big need right now.

Xiomera
09-28-2007, 08:27 PM
I would like to see some positional player rankings from you toonster . . . just a simple top 3-5 at each position . . . but I know you are a busy man these days.

PACKmanN
09-28-2007, 08:39 PM
give the packers Jack Ikegwuonu, right now CB is more of a need, I would love to trade up and take Jenkins but Jack would do.

toonsterwu
09-28-2007, 08:58 PM
Hmm... I like the pick of an edge guy in 'Zona. Dansby is more of an inside guy in a 3-4, IMO, and Pace is a bust.

I think Dansby is one of those individuals that can play inside and out in the 3-4 ... although I like his pass rushing potential out of the edge spot.

toonsterwu
09-28-2007, 09:06 PM
Fantastic mock as always toonster. Jets pick is solid, could see it happening. That said, you kind of focused on needs, front 7 and and O-line in particular. The big knock on the Jets is our lack of talent. And it's true, we aren't particularly strong at many positions. That said I think we take the BPA on the board excluding a few positions, namely QB (Clemens is the future), LT (too much invested in D'Brick, though if we're in a spot to take Long...probably take him and put him on the right side, and C (Mangold). Probably not taking a guard where we are in the first either, and unless somebody shoots up boards a tight end, but anyways...as long as the guy fits our schemes if he's clearly BPA anywhere else (any defensive guy that fits our scheme, bruising RB for down the road, WR, OL) I think we take him.


Also, with the Bengals pick you said you didn't see LB there. Not sure if you meant based on needs or who was available. Most of their linebackers are going to be free agents after this season and I think that their LB core, particularly at weakside, is going to be a BIG need going into this draft.

Do you feel the Jets would go, say, CB, ILB, S that high? I can see WR/RB coming into play, and if any DL is viewed as a fit.

As for the Bengals, I really haven't taken a look at contract situations. If that's the case, yeah, LB certainly moves up. Ahmad Brooks is still under contract, that's for sure, and Caleb Miller, I thought, was a RFA after this year. Could be wrong, though.

toonsterwu
09-28-2007, 09:07 PM
I would like to see some positional player rankings from you toonster . . . just a simple top 3-5 at each position . . . but I know you are a busy man these days.

I actually have some time on my hands, but my internet is down ... and I'm at Kinko's doing work (well, I should be ... yes I know it's Friday).

On a side note, personal listing or how big boarding?

derza222
09-29-2007, 01:51 PM
Do you feel the Jets would go, say, CB, ILB, S that high? I can see WR/RB coming into play, and if any DL is viewed as a fit.

As for the Bengals, I really haven't taken a look at contract situations. If that's the case, yeah, LB certainly moves up. Ahmad Brooks is still under contract, that's for sure, and Caleb Miller, I thought, was a RFA after this year. Could be wrong, though.

Hmm, you're right on ILB I definitely don't think we go in that direction, should've mentioned that. I think if the player on the board is clear cut BPA, i.e. Phillips (not available there, but if somehow it happens I could see them grabbing him) then I wouldn't be surprised with a secondary player. I think with the lack of good linemen available in your mock (on both sides of the ball) they'd be hard pressed to pass on Jackson/Doucet/Jenkins depending on how highly you have Gholston rated compared to those guys. We need a ton of work on our defensive line right now, and our offensive line as well. I guess my view is, if we go line then that's awesome, and if no linemen are available I'd like to see the best secondary/OLB/RB/WR available. An OLB will only do so much with how terrible our defensive line is at keeping guys off blockers. Maybe I'm wrong there, but just my thoughts.

Bengals I know will have a lot of free agents at linebacker, not sure exactly who's RFA or UFA but I certainly think it cannot be ruled out, all I was saying.

toonsterwu
09-29-2007, 07:21 PM
Hmm, you're right on ILB I definitely don't think we go in that direction, should've mentioned that. I think if the player on the board is clear cut BPA, i.e. Phillips (not available there, but if somehow it happens I could see them grabbing him) then I wouldn't be surprised with a secondary player. I think with the lack of good linemen available in your mock (on both sides of the ball) they'd be hard pressed to pass on Jackson/Doucet/Jenkins depending on how highly you have Gholston rated compared to those guys. We need a ton of work on our defensive line right now, and our offensive line as well. I guess my view is, if we go line then that's awesome, and if no linemen are available I'd like to see the best secondary/OLB/RB/WR available. An OLB will only do so much with how terrible our defensive line is at keeping guys off blockers. Maybe I'm wrong there, but just my thoughts.

Bengals I know will have a lot of free agents at linebacker, not sure exactly who's RFA or UFA but I certainly think it cannot be ruled out, all I was saying.

Hmm ... first

could a mod lock this ... it's past its born on dating ... that is, i'll probably rework some things some time soon ...

as for the Jets - I think the positive approach to look at, relative to this year's draft, is that, there's potentially good 3-4 DL fits in the midrounds, and the OL depth is solid enough to find yourselves a RT or a guard later on ...

d34ng3l021
09-29-2007, 10:53 PM
Ryan Clady at 3 over Jake Long, Andre Woodson and Brian Brohm? Serious? Give us Andre Woodson.