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Geo
09-29-2007, 07:39 PM
We're bound to be bombarded with a few DeSean Jackson threads following his beastly performance today and to come, so let's beat 'em to the punch and have one good thread for this year's number one wide receiving prospect.

Two years or so ago, I heard the tripe from a Michigan homer on this board that Mario Manningham was the next Marvin Harrison, but thankfully that died down when reality set in. However if any prospect could be the next Marvin Harrison, it's Jackson I think.

His playing speed, route-running, hands, receiving ability, and character are exceptional. Maybe Jackson will be unable to put weight on his frame which has been the case with Harrison, but as he continues to develop in his craft, Jackson is going to further abuse defensive backs. He put on a clinic today in a huge game, in a hostile environment.

I was a big fan of Teddy Ginn, the Human Highlight, but DeSean Jackson is a better prospect than him imo. That doesn't mean Jackson will be drafted sooner than Ginn did at ninth overall in 2007, every draft is different and has its own quirks (ex. Ronnie Brown was and Darren McFadden will be drafted sooner than Adrian Peterson did, but AD is the better prospect).

Discuss.

d34ng3l021
09-29-2007, 09:15 PM
With the first pick of the NFL Draft, the Atlanta Falcons select DeSean Jackson.

Thad be pretty awesome.

I dont know if you can compare him to Harrison. Harrison is alot more polished in route running. The only thing comparable is is their weight and height, none of which are supreme. DeSean Jackson is way more explosive than Marvin Harrison, and would be a much bigger playmaker.

I think Steve Smith and Jackson are comparable, but Jackson isnt as tough as Smith, though he is pretty tough for a guy who weighs like 170.

Green Bay Scat
09-29-2007, 10:02 PM
it aint a diss, but D-Jac has the same Body as Todd Pinkston, hoepfully he doesnt devolp T-rex arms when he gets to the NFL

619
09-29-2007, 10:08 PM
if u go by BPA hes a top 5 pick

Ewing
09-29-2007, 11:37 PM
I hope the Titans trade up to get him. Imagine him and Vince on the same offense.

darnik44two
09-30-2007, 12:42 AM
Top 20 pick probably, top 10 pick no. Ted Ginn Jr. is hurting Jackson's draft stock. Comparisons will be drawn between the two, and it's apparent Ginn was overdrafted. Jackson is more of a playmaker than a receiver. He lacks ideal size, he's not a polished route runner, and he's not a guy who will make plays over the middle. He is listed at 172 pounds and his strength is his speed and athletism, so adding a bunch of weight would really only take away from his strengths. Alot of comparison could be made between Jackson and "Rocket" Ismail. Those type of college receivers just don't have great track records in the NFL. If speed and athletic ability was all it took to play WR in the NFL there would be alot more track athletes succeeding in the league. I know most of you will disagree with me, but Jackson isn't the first player with this type of skill set I've seen come down the pike. It's easy to get caught up in the success these guys have on the college level, but the NFL is a very different game/league. That said, now let the bashing begin from you teenage experts.

note: Prior to his 11 catch 161 yard performance today he had 17 catches for 151 yards in his first 4 games. Basically he's averaging 5 catches for 60 yards per game (with today inflating that avg.) Equate that to the NFL and he'd be a 3 catch for 40 yards per game guy...not worth a top 10 pick in my book.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 12:47 AM
I think, as of now, he's a mid-first pick as well. I'm not sure I see a top 10 WR, but that said, the top of this draft, IMO, sucks, so who knows. Of the top WR's, he certainly has one of the better chances to go top 10, but I just don't see it. He'd really have to put up some amazing numbers to force his way in, and I'm just not sure. I mean, the OP compares him to Harrison, and Harrison was, what, 19, off the top.

On a side note, while I wasn't a huge fan of Peterson, I did like him better than Brown as a prospect, from relative points. As of now, I still like McFadden better than Peterson, which is rare, as I'm usually wary of tall RB's. That said, I think McFadden does a good job of protecting his body, so it'll come down to his times.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-30-2007, 03:01 AM
I'm a big Jackson fan, and I don't really think he's a top 10 caliber wideout. Where he ends up will be another matter, especially if he finishes the season strong and posts the strong numbers he's expected to at the combine, as I agree with toonster that the top of this draft doesn't look all that spectacular.

I don't think he's as precise as Harrison, and I think he still could use a lot of work as a go to receiver, but I like him a lot more than I ever liked Ginn in regards to the pro level.

SuperKevin
09-30-2007, 03:04 AM
Its about time he actually did something recieving this year

Paranoidmoonduck
09-30-2007, 03:17 AM
Its about time he actually did something recieving this year

Keep in mind that he's had a injured right thumb since the Tennessee game and has said that this was the first week it's felt alright. Catching without your thumb isn't exactly easy.

CC.SD
09-30-2007, 05:17 AM
Its about time he actually did something recieving this year

Ding! winna

Scott Wright
09-30-2007, 07:48 AM
I love DeSean Jackson. He is the prospect that Ted Ginn was supposed to be. I'll be really surprised if he's not in my Top 5-10 overall players when all is said and done.

Race for the Heisman
09-30-2007, 08:57 AM
note: Prior to his 11 catch 161 yard performance today he had 17 catches for 151 yards in his first 4 games. Basically he's averaging 5 catches for 60 yards per game (with today inflating that avg.) Equate that to the NFL and he'd be a 3 catch for 40 yards per game guy...not worth a top 10 pick in my book.

You can't just plug someone's numbers into a formula and call it NFL-adjusted or you'd never have any elite players; everyone would just be marginalized versions of their college selves. I understand your point, but the logic used to get there doesn't quite bridge the gap.

darnik44two
09-30-2007, 09:29 AM
You can't just plug someone's numbers into a formula and call it NFL-adjusted or you'd never have any elite players; everyone would just be marginalized versions of their college selves. I understand your point, but the logic used to get there doesn't quite bridge the gap.

I hear what you're saying, I didn't really have any systematic approach with that other than the fact he's not getting open alot at the college level. so to me at the NFL level a guy like that will have even less production. Guys that put up big numbers in college should continue to do so in the NFL. I'm not wording this well, just trust me I've seen this type of prospect countless times.

darnik44two
09-30-2007, 09:34 AM
I love DeSean Jackson. He is the prospect that Ted Ginn was supposed to be. I'll be really surprised if he's not in my Top 5-10 overall players when all is said and done.

That statement I put in bold sums up part of what I was saying about Jackson. Do you agree that Ginn's lack of success will in a way hurt Jackson draft position because the comparisons will certainly be drawn. To me these types of prospect are so hard to translate to the next level. I personally think the risk is too high to take a guy like that in the top 10. Ginn was overdrafted and I knew that as soon as it happened. The memory of that pick will be fresh in the minds of GM's.

Geo
09-30-2007, 10:00 AM
Sep 01 Tennessee W 45-31
4 receptions for 45 yards, 2 first downs
1 rushing attempt for 21, 1 first down
77-yard punt return for a touchdown, scored early in the 2nd quarter to break a 14-14 tie

Sep 08 @Colorado State W 34-28
5 receptions for 39 yards, 2 first downs
2 rushing attempts for 78 yards, 1 first down, including a 73-yard reverse for a touchdown scored in the 1st quarter right after Colorado State scored, tying the game 7-7

Sep 15 Louisiana Tech W 42-12
5 receptions for 28 yards, 2 first downs
1 rushing attempt for 6 yards

Sep 22 Arizona W 45-27
3 receptions for 39 yards, 2 first downs

Sep 29 @Oregon W 31-24
11 receptions for 161 yards and 2 touchdowns, 6 first downs, including a 25-yard touchdown reception in the mid-3rd to tie it up 10-10 and a 31-yard touchdown reception early in the 4th to get up 24-17
1 rushing attempt for -5 yards

darnik44two
09-30-2007, 10:07 AM
Sep 01 Tennessee W 45-31
4 receptions for 45 yards, 2 first downs
1 rushing attempt for 21, 1 first down
77-yard punt return for a touchdown, scored early in the 2nd quarter to break a 14-14 tie

Sep 08 @Colorado State W 34-28
5 receptions for 39 yards, 2 first downs
2 rushing attempts for 78 yards, 1 first down, including a 73-yard reverse for a touchdown scored in the 1st quarter right after Colorado State scored, tying the game 7-7

Sep 15 Louisiana Tech W 42-12
5 receptions for 28 yards, 2 first downs
1 rushing attempt for 6 yards

Sep 22 Arizona W 45-27
3 receptions for 39 yards, 2 first downs

Sep 29 @Oregon W 31-24
11 receptions for 161 yards and 2 touchdowns, 6 first downs, including a 25-yard touchdown reception in the mid-3rd to tie it up 10-10 and a 31-yard touchdown reception early in the 4th to get up 24-17
1 rushing attempt for -5 yards

Same type of production Ginn had in college, only Ginn was a bit more productive in the passing game. College stats don't really mean a thing. It's all about how they translate to the next level. Bottom line is Jackson is undersized and unpolished as a WR. WR is what he will be, so I see the guys with better size and route running ability being better NFL prospects.

remix 6
09-30-2007, 10:25 AM
That statement I put in bold sums up part of what I was saying about Jackson. Do you agree that Ginn's lack of success will in a way hurt Jackson draft position because the comparisons will certainly be drawn. To me these types of prospect are so hard to translate to the next level. I personally think the risk is too high to take a guy like that in the top 10. Ginn was overdrafted and I knew that as soon as it happened. The memory of that pick will be fresh in the minds of GM's.

lack of success where? its unfair to judge anyone like that. Hes a rookie..its week 4 and hes coming off injury.

even if Ginn is a bust somehow..i dont think it can apply to any other small, very fast WR who excels at returns.

it all depends on what team u are, how your used, how u are as an invidiual, given talent, etc

so much goes in.

talent wise, Ginn was a top 10 player but u dont pick a player strictly off talent in round 1. u need a smart, polished player, good route runner, great hands ,etc

Ginn is a very talented kid..hes fast and makes plays but your gonna need to coach him and it'll take more than a year to get him to play up to his draft selection and usually when u pick top 10, u need to get someone who will help very soon

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-30-2007, 10:25 AM
They didn't really need Jackson in any of their other games except Tennessee.

619
09-30-2007, 10:27 AM
playmakers like djax are too valuable even at the next level and they dont come in bunches either

HoopsDemon12
09-30-2007, 10:50 AM
Darnik i completly agree with your first post... he was doign nothing near worthy being called a top receiver until yesterday.. he needs to prove he can do it consistently... and putting on a couple pounds would be great for his stock. But ill look forward to watching him in the league.. smaller receivers have had sucess right?

For me you cant really compare him to any other player... or any player in that regards... Desean Jackson = Deseasn jackson not Ted Ginn... Just like London Fletcher is L.F.. not any other 5'10 linebackers

oldLibid21
09-30-2007, 10:50 AM
With the first pick of the NFL Draft, the Atlanta Falcons select DeSean Jackson.

Thad be pretty awesome.

I dont know if you can compare him to Harrison. Harrison is alot more polished in route running. The only thing comparable is is their weight and height, none of which are supreme. DeSean Jackson is way more explosive than Marvin Harrison, and would be a much bigger playmaker.

I think Steve Smith and Jackson are comparable, but Jackson isnt as tough as Smith, though he is pretty tough for a guy who weighs like 170.
Huh? That pick doesn't make sense. This franchise doesn't need a playmaking wide receiver who returns kicks and punts. Of course, it'd be great to have him, but there's no way Desean Jackson will a) get drafted that high and b) go towards a team that doesn't need a wide receiver that early in the draft. I'm assuming we get a Top 5-10 draft pick, and we will not be drafting a wide receiver once we do so. It will be: quarterback, left tackle, defensive tackle, right tackle, power running back, THEN maybe a wide receiver. Drafting a wide receiver so early in the first round for Atlanta would be a waste of a pick. We don't need a franchise wide receiver. We need a franchise quarterback.

Primetime21
09-30-2007, 11:44 AM
Huh? That pick doesn't make sense. This franchise doesn't need a playmaking wide receiver who returns kicks and punts. Of course, it'd be great to have him, but there's no way Desean Jackson will a) get drafted that high and b) go towards a team that doesn't need a wide receiver that early in the draft. I'm assuming we get a Top 5-10 draft pick, and we will not be drafting a wide receiver once we do so. It will be: quarterback, left tackle, defensive tackle, right tackle, power running back, THEN maybe a wide receiver. Drafting a wide receiver so early in the first round for Atlanta would be a waste of a pick. We don't need a franchise wide receiver. We need a franchise quarterback.

Im pretty sure he was kidding. No sane falcons fan would be able to say that with a straight face.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-30-2007, 11:55 AM
I love DeSean. He's going to do big things in the NFL. I see him going top 10.

darnik44two
09-30-2007, 01:18 PM
Darnik i completly agree with your first post... he was doign nothing near worthy being called a top receiver until yesterday.. he needs to prove he can do it consistently... and putting on a couple pounds would be great for his stock. But ill look forward to watching him in the league.. smaller receivers have had sucess right?

For me you cant really compare him to any other player... or any player in that regards... Desean Jackson = Deseasn jackson not Ted Ginn... Just like London Fletcher is L.F.. not any other 5'10 linebackers

I'm not really saying his size will prevent him from having success, and I'm not saying he won't be a good NFL player. I am saying he will be a bit of a project because he has alot of developing to do as a WR. For those reasons (size really only being a risk) he's not in my eyes worth a top 10 pick. I rank him currently #21 overall, so obviously I do consider him a good prospect...just not top 5 or 10 like many have been calling him. Top 10 players need to step in on day one and contribute (QB's are an exception).

ShutDwn
09-30-2007, 01:51 PM
With the first pick of the NFL Draft, the Atlanta Falcons select DeSean Jackson.

Thad be pretty awesome.

I dont know if you can compare him to Harrison. Harrison is alot more polished in route running. The only thing comparable is is their weight and height, none of which are supreme. DeSean Jackson is way more explosive than Marvin Harrison, and would be a much bigger playmaker.

I think Steve Smith and Jackson are comparable, but Jackson isnt as tough as Smith, though he is pretty tough for a guy who weighs like 170.

But that is what Steve Smith is, toughness. I haven't seen much of Jackson, but from what I have seen he is a smaller guy who is shifty and turns into a punt returner once he gets the ball. However he never strikes me as a physical player, and Smith is a very extremely physical guy. Unless a player has Smith's attitude and toughness, there is no reason to compare them.

From what I have seen, he is more like the Santana Moss small guy.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Alot of the people saying that Desean's production will hurt him obviously are seeing him for the first time.If you saw him last year or the year before that you certainly wouldnt be saying that.You would have seen how dependant our passing game was on him last year.And most of you neglect the fact that the whole defense focus's on him.Our offense is different from last years and we have to many weapons on offense especially in the passing game to depend that much on Desean stats mean nothing and there isnt a lack of production from Desean
We have Hawkins,Jordan,and Best all at WR as well.We also have Stevens and Moorah at TE to.Then theres also a great running game.Our offense spreads the ball out to much to have a single player dominate week in week out.

soybean
09-30-2007, 04:08 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5W01adK8yME

Paranoidmoonduck
09-30-2007, 04:16 PM
How many people have actually watched Jackson this year? Once it was discovered he was having a real problem catching the ball with his thumb, Tedford was mainly using him to spring LaVelle Hawkins into open spots.

Getting open really hasn't been a problem for Jackson this year, getting the ball thrown his way and then holding on has been. Making any kind of decision about the caliber of a receiver based on 4 games in which his hand was injured seems like terrible way to evaluate.

nobodyinparticular
09-30-2007, 04:21 PM
playmakers like djax are too valuable even at the next level and they dont come in bunches either

Just to throw it out there, that is what they said about Reggie Bush... You can draw your own conclusions from there.

JETS5128
09-30-2007, 04:45 PM
Just to throw it out there, that is what they said about Reggie Bush... You can draw your own conclusions from there.

look at his sig.lol.

P-L
09-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I said right before week 1 that I thought DeSean Jackson was the best offensive player in the country. His games against Louisiana Tech and Arizona made me look a bit foolish. However, he had an awesome game yesterday and I heard great things about him, although I didn't catch the game.

619
09-30-2007, 08:06 PM
someone on this forum (billingsley26) mentioned to me that desean jackson is another roscoe parrish type WR or at the most steve smith without the hands. that got me goin because i believe hes goin to be an elite impact receiver at the next level and will surprise a few people. whats the say on the forum? what do u guys think?

Billingsley26
09-30-2007, 08:09 PM
Yes sir. Desean drops too many blls and bobbles the ones that he catches. He has speed to kill and is deadly when he touches the ball, but I dont think his hands are god enough for the NFL. I think he will be nothing more than Roscoe Parrish and defiantely not Steve Smith.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-30-2007, 08:29 PM
What the hell are you talking about?Have you even seen Jackson play?he rarely ever drops balls.Thats complete nonsense.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-01-2007, 12:08 AM
Yes sir. Desean drops too many blls and bobbles the ones that he catches. He has speed to kill and is deadly when he touches the ball, but I dont think his hands are god enough for the NFL. I think he will be nothing more than Roscoe Parrish and defiantely not Steve Smith.

Except the last three games when he played with an injured hand, when has Jackson ever had trouble bringing in balls? In fact, he's fairly regularly displayed very good hands on deep balls.

thule
10-01-2007, 12:49 AM
I like the comparison to Donald Driver myself...

Driver
6-0 190
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/nfl/specials/preview/2005/08/02/nfl.workout.driver0808/t1_driver1.jpg

Jackson
6-0 172
http://www.dailycal.org/images/art/10.06.desean7.TABAK.jpg

Both players are extremely cut. With great definition. Both are explosive with great hands and above average route runners. I like the Driver comparison better than the harrison comparison because Driver is always looking to make a guy miss and pick up a few yards off of a juke. Harrison is most adept to catch the ball and get down and move the chains.

DukeDaGod
10-01-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm not very sure about the Harrison comparisons. He does run great routes but his hands aren't quite as good and his character is not quite comparable either; he is known to have a cocky attitude carrying the nickname "MEsean" by some. He can catch balls in traffic i.e. Oregon game where he caught 11 balls and got hammered on a few of them across the middle.

However, the comparison I do like is Santana Moss. I think this is pretty dead on. He was picked 16, and I see DeSean somewhere a little higher than that depending on the teams picking and the fact that this is a weak WR class. Somewhere 6-15. I don't think he'll put up big numbers his first couple of years, but he should breakout in the league around his 3rd or 4th season after putting on about 10 pounds of muscle and finding out how to preserve his small frame in the NFL.

Every great player finds a way to make plays. Each week, team's are scheming against him and against big competition hes managed to beat double coverage and have big games against Oregon and Tennessee. His numbers might not stick out at you because of a nagging thumb injury, and this has caused him to play sparingly the last two weeks.

You gotta watch this kid in person, I've been to numerous Cal games and he is certainly amazing to watch.

no love
10-01-2007, 07:06 PM
Top 20 pick probably, top 10 pick no. Ted Ginn Jr. is hurting Jackson's draft stock. Comparisons will be drawn between the two, and it's apparent Ginn was overdrafted. Jackson is more of a playmaker than a receiver. He lacks ideal size, he's not a polished route runner, and he's not a guy who will make plays over the middle. He is listed at 172 pounds and his strength is his speed and athletism, so adding a bunch of weight would really only take away from his strengths. Alot of comparison could be made between Jackson and "Rocket" Ismail. Those type of college receivers just don't have great track records in the NFL. If speed and athletic ability was all it took to play WR in the NFL there would be alot more track athletes succeeding in the league. I know most of you will disagree with me, but Jackson isn't the first player with this type of skill set I've seen come down the pike. It's easy to get caught up in the success these guys have on the college level, but the NFL is a very different game/league. That said, now let the bashing begin from you teenage experts.

note: Prior to his 11 catch 161 yard performance today he had 17 catches for 151 yards in his first 4 games. Basically he's averaging 5 catches for 60 yards per game (with today inflating that avg.) Equate that to the NFL and he'd be a 3 catch for 40 yards per game guy...not worth a top 10 pick in my book.

Your description of jackson just shows me that you probably have only seen him play a couple of times. If you watched him consistently you would know that jackson actually does make plays over the middle, has great ball skills and his greatest attribute is not his game breaking speed, but it's his ankle breaking moves. Jackson is not a "track guy" and he doesn't get by on fly or go routes, a lot of times when you see him beat people, it's because he puts a move on them so hard that they get completely stuck.

And yah. This was his first big game in the air. But he has made huge plays in EVERY game this year. He is a playmaker plain and simple.

I don't think comparisons to Ginn will hurt Jackson at all. So a GM is not going to pick him in the top ten because of his 4.2 speed? Or his ankle breaking moves? Or maybe his competitiveness? From a lot of accounts that I saw of Ginn I heard he was soft, didn't run routes over the middle (although this was exaggerated to a certain extent), this description is not anything like jackson. He is just oozing with potential, the fact that he has the potential to be a steve smith or harrison is worth a top ten pick any day in my book.

Windy
10-01-2007, 07:07 PM
driver looks like he belongs on broadway.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
10-01-2007, 07:26 PM
Driver was never, and will never be a playmaker like DeSean. Great #2, Solid #1(ala Earl Bennett), but DeSean is that playmaker.

remix 6
10-01-2007, 07:30 PM
would Santonio Holmes be a good match? in terms of playign style..not really where they will get picked

619
10-01-2007, 07:32 PM
would Santonio Holmes be a good match? in terms of playign style..not really where they will get picked

na this guys an even bigger playmaker

darnik44two
10-01-2007, 09:42 PM
would Santonio Holmes be a good match? in terms of playign style..not really where they will get picked

No, Holmes came out a polished WR, terrific hands, and an accomplished route runner. Peter Warrick is a better comparison, or Ted Ginn, or Troy Edwards, or J.J Stokes (for you old timers).

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-01-2007, 09:45 PM
No, Holmes came out a polished WR, terrific hands, and an accomplished route runner. Peter Warrick is a better comparison, or Ted Ginn, or Troy Edwards, or J.J Stokes (for you old timers).
from your posts its obvious you havent seen much if any of Desean Jackson.sorry Sportscenter doesnt count.

darnik44two
10-01-2007, 09:53 PM
from your posts its obvious you havent seen much if any of Desean Jackson.sorry Sportscenter doesnt count.

My last post was a bit facetious, but I've seen plenty of him. Those guys I mentioned though in my last post all rank among the most polific college WR's in history. Very much like Jackson they found success due to their speed and athletic ability. Speed and athletic ability alone doesn't cut it in the NFL. Again, I rank him #21, so I don't discredit the fact he is a good prospect. #21 out of several thousand draft eligible player is pretty good. I've just seen way too many WR's like Jackson not pan out in the NFL to throw common sense out the window and call him a top 5 or top 10 prospect. That's basically what this debate has turned into. How many of you truely know what you're looking for in evaluating a WR and translating their game to the NFL? Stats don't tell the story.

keylime_5
10-01-2007, 10:23 PM
What the hell are you talking about?Have you even seen Jackson play?he rarely ever drops balls.Thats complete nonsense.

this is how i felt last year about Ginn. Got stereotyped as having lousy hands becuase of the small, raw, speedy type of downfield WR he was when he really had good hands. Desean is a great player and will be a stud in the NFL....if the Browns had a top 10 pick this year then I'd want a)McFadden or b)Jackson most of all.

darnik44two
10-01-2007, 10:26 PM
this is how i felt last year about Ginn. Got stereotyped as having lousy hands becuase of the small, raw, speedy type of downfield WR he was when he really had good hands. Desean is a great player and will be a stud in the NFL....if the Browns had a top 10 pick this year then I'd want a)McFadden or b)Jackson most of all.

So far Ginn has done zero to prove his critics wrong.

draftguru151
10-01-2007, 10:53 PM
Yea because Ginn is dropping tons of balls and running terrible routes. :/

P-L
10-01-2007, 10:58 PM
Yea because Ginn is dropping tons of balls and running terrible routes. :/

He needs to get on the field as a receiver before he can drop them and run bad routes. :P

Saints-Tigers
10-01-2007, 10:59 PM
What people are failing to see with the Steve Smith comparison isn't a stylistic difference. Sure Steve Smith is physical, and Desean hasn't shown that he is afraid of contact, but Steve Smith is one of the stronger guys pound for pound in the league. 205 pounds is very strong and muscular for only 5'8-5'9. Steve Smith is ridiculously hard to jam at the line, or bump off his routes, which is a problem a lot of smaller receivers have.

draftguru151
10-01-2007, 11:09 PM
He needs to get on the field as a receiver before he can drop them and run bad routes. :P

Exactly. :P

no love
10-02-2007, 01:35 AM
What people are failing to see with the Steve Smith comparison isn't a stylistic difference. Sure Steve Smith is physical, and Desean hasn't shown that he is afraid of contact, but Steve Smith is one of the stronger guys pound for pound in the league. 205 pounds is very strong and muscular for only 5'8-5'9. Steve Smith is ridiculously hard to jam at the line, or bump off his routes, which is a problem a lot of smaller receivers have.

Where are you getting this 205 pounds stuff? Steve Smith is listed as 185 on ESPN and he certainly looks it. Reggie Bush is around 200 lbs and you are not seriously going to tell me that Smith at two inches shorter is thicker than Reggie.

The reason that Smith doesn't get jammed that often is because although it is a problem for a lot of smaller receivers because of their size, if they know how to use technique to redirect the jam they are fine because they are quicker and at times ever harder to jam. Plus with a guy like Smith if you play press coverage, you better have help over the top or else you are going to get burned if he beats the press.

But what really gets me confused, is I see all of these people who live outside of California who bash Jacksons route running when you watch him on tv. Unless you actually have different film of Jackson, how do you know how well he runs his routes unless you either A) watch the game in person when he comes to town or B) Assume that he runs nothing but fly routes and go routes because you saw him score a couple of tds on fly routes on some highlight reel. I generally don't have much to say about wrs outside of the pac-10 bc I never get to see them run their whole route bc I watch on tv where all I can see is the QB and the line play. When you actually watch some Cal games in person and see Desean get wide open only to have Longshore not see it, then you might know how good Desean is and how every Cal fan wishes we still had Rogers.

Saints-Tigers
10-02-2007, 01:52 AM
Where are you getting this 205 pounds stuff? Steve Smith is listed as 185 on ESPN and he certainly looks it. Reggie Bush is around 200 lbs and you are not seriously going to tell me that Smith at two inches shorter is thicker than Reggie.

The reason that Smith doesn't get jammed that often is because although it is a problem for a lot of smaller receivers because of their size, if they know how to use technique to redirect the jam they are fine because they are quicker and at times ever harder to jam. Plus with a guy like Smith if you play press coverage, you better have help over the top or else you are going to get burned if he beats the press.

But what really gets me confused, is I see all of these people who live outside of California who bash Jacksons route running when you watch him on tv. Unless you actually have different film of Jackson, how do you know how well he runs his routes unless you either A) watch the game in person when he comes to town or B) Assume that he runs nothing but fly routes and go routes because you saw him score a couple of tds on fly routes on some highlight reel. I generally don't have much to say about wrs outside of the pac-10 bc I never get to see them run their whole route bc I watch on tv where all I can see is the QB and the line play. When you actually watch some Cal games in person and see Desean get wide open only to have Longshore not see it, then you might know how good Desean is and how every Cal fan wishes we still had Rogers.

Where did I say Desean has problems running routes?

Smith was 185 out of college, he looks a lot thicker than when he came in.....

no love
10-02-2007, 02:19 AM
Where did I say Desean has problems running routes?

Smith was 185 out of college, he looks a lot thicker than when he came in.....

I wasn't talking about you, I was just making the comment in general. Smith does look thicker than when he came out, but 205 is a bit generous.

darnik44two
10-02-2007, 04:08 AM
Exactly. :P

How did he do in the pre-season against reserve db's? (4 rec for 38 yards)

Regular season 1 rec for 15 yards. Why isn't he getting on the field? Is it because of the amazing talent the dolphins have at the WR position? I haven't watched the Dolphins yet this year, but I have to assume something is wrong when a "playmaker" isn't making plays.

Addict
10-02-2007, 04:16 AM
How did he do in the pre-season against reserve db's? (4 rec for 38 yards)

Regular season 1 rec for 15 yards. Why isn't he getting on the field? Is it because of the amazing talent the dolphins have at the WR position? I haven't watched the Dolphins yet this year, but I have to assume something is wrong when a "playmaker" isn't making plays.

they have guys who are actually able to catch. He returns punts and kicks for now and that's enough, give the kid some time and hopefully he won't make the franchise look like idiots for selecting him.

draftguru151
10-02-2007, 08:49 AM
How did he do in the pre-season against reserve db's? (4 rec for 38 yards)

Regular season 1 rec for 15 yards. Why isn't he getting on the field? Is it because of the amazing talent the dolphins have at the WR position? I haven't watched the Dolphins yet this year, but I have to assume something is wrong when a "playmaker" isn't making plays.

I'm supposed to know why this coaching staff is doing the stuff it's doing? I've got no clue. Probably because he isn't ready. Ginn caught the ball very well in preseason. In the third game he had 3 catches that were all underneath passes, 1 of which was over the middle, another was a sideline catch on 4th and 2 where he got hit by Ronde Barber and held onto the ball. (Yes, against starters, Ginn didn't play much in scrub time, he actually started the Jacksonville game) So yea, I don't see how any of that is proving the critics right. The only thing that has been proved is the Dolphins staff are morons.

TheMikey10
10-02-2007, 09:15 AM
well, it is a little bit difficult when literally every team you play puts a safety over the top on you darn near every down, LA tech, AZ and tennessee all did that. He showed what he does against single coverage against a normal safety scheme rather than one focused solely on him. He had 1,060 yards and 9 TDs beter than calvin johnson as a sophomore who had 888 yards and 6 TDs. He'll get back in a groove and finish with upwards of 850 yards and 9 TDs this year.

keylime_5
10-02-2007, 10:07 AM
He needs to get on the field as a receiver before he can drop them and run bad routes. :P

tell that to Mr. Cameron and company who btw is doing such a great job down there coaching in Miami (*sarcasm**sarcasm*)

Saints-Tigers
10-02-2007, 11:09 AM
well, it is a little bit difficult when literally every team you play puts a safety over the top on you darn near every down, LA tech, AZ and tennessee all did that. He showed what he does against single coverage against a normal safety scheme rather than one focused solely on him. He had 1,060 yards and 9 TDs beter than calvin johnson as a sophomore who had 888 yards and 6 TDs. He'll get back in a groove and finish with upwards of 850 yards and 9 TDs this year.



Calvin Johnson had Reggie Ball, quite possibly the worst QB ever :D

Mr. Marcus
10-05-2007, 08:17 PM
I have DeSean as a top 5 player.

Mr. Marcus
10-05-2007, 08:18 PM
btw Desean is a lot more comparable to Santana Moss than Steve Smith, if you need to make that type of comparison.

619
10-05-2007, 09:05 PM
btw Desean is a lot more comparable to Santana Moss than Steve Smith, if you need to make that type of comparison.

more explosive than santana moss ever was and very comparable to steve smith in every facet of the game including special teams and i think deseans toughness is often overlooked

619
10-05-2007, 09:07 PM
Calvin Johnson had Reggie Ball, quite possibly the worst QB ever :D

well CJ isnt doin much with jon kitna either ;)

Mr. Marcus
10-05-2007, 09:39 PM
more explosive than santana moss ever was and very comparable to steve smith in every facet of the game including special teams and i think deseans toughness is often overlooked

He may be tough but he isn't Steve Smith.

Santana Moss is tough too. And he is explosive now, and was coming out.
Desean isn't a clone of him, but he's more comparable to Santana than Smitty IMO.

Smitty is WAY stronger, meaner, and in general more powerful. Of course Desean should gain strength, but Smith's intensity, toughness, explosion, and fearlessness at a guy that size and at that position are totally unique.

no love
10-06-2007, 03:36 AM
He may be tough but he isn't Steve Smith.

Santana Moss is tough too. And he is explosive now, and was coming out.
Desean isn't a clone of him, but he's more comparable to Santana than Smitty IMO.

Smitty is WAY stronger, meaner, and in general more powerful. Of course Desean should gain strength, but Smith's intensity, toughness, explosion, and fearlessness at a guy that size and at that position are totally unique.

Actually despite 3 inches of height, Marvin Harrison has a smaller frame and I would argue that he is every bit as tough, intense and as fearless as Smith.

Smith is a hell of a player, and he is probably the most explosive wr in the nfl, but lets not take anything away from some of the other great small wr's by saying Smith is a completely unique small wr.

My argument is mainly out of the mad respect I have for Harrison, I seriously believe that he helped make Manning as much as Manning helped make him into one of the greatest wrs ever.

Mr. Marcus
10-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Actually despite 3 inches of height, Marvin Harrison has a smaller frame and I would argue that he is every bit as tough, intense and as fearless as Smith.

Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.

Marvin is an all time great. But he isn't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to toughness, intensity and fearlessness. It's not even a question.

Marvin will catch a slant and fall to the ground to protect his body as soon as there is more than one defender impeding his progress. Steve Smith will catch a slant, and there can literally be 5 or 6 defenders who try to take him down and he will fight through it and sometimes take it to the house (ie. his 3rd TD in the Texans game this year).

Shiver
10-06-2007, 03:03 PM
Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.

Marvin is an all time great. But he isn't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to toughness, intensity and fearlessness. It's not even a question.

Marvin will catch a slant and fall to the ground to protect his body as soon as there is more than one defender impeding his progress. Steve Smith will catch a slant, and there can literally be 5 or 6 defenders who try to take him down and he will fight through it and sometimes take it to the house (ie. his 3rd TD in the Texans game this year).


Which is why Steve Smith is routinely banged up and Marvin Harrison will finish as the 2nd greatest receiver of all time.

Saints-Tigers
10-06-2007, 03:53 PM
Point is, for better or worse, Jackson isn't going to break tackles or power through as many guys as Smith.

Not necessarily a bad thing, I'd take Holt or Harrison over Smith, and neither are shedding tackles...

619
10-06-2007, 03:56 PM
i never said desean jackson was goin to break any tackles but all i was sayin was his toughness as a football player is often overlooked which compares himmore favourably to steve smith than santana moss anyday even tho he mite never be the player steve smith is today

Mr. Marcus
10-06-2007, 04:09 PM
Which is why Steve Smith is routinely banged up and Marvin Harrison will finish as the 2nd greatest receiver of all time.

May be true, but irrelevant to our current discussion.

Mr. Marcus
10-06-2007, 04:11 PM
i never said desean jackson was goin to break any tackles but all i was sayin was his toughness as a football player is often overlooked which compares himmore favourably to steve smith than santana moss anyday even tho he mite never be the player steve smith is today

I think you're actually overlooking Santana's toughness. It is not an insult to be compared to Santana Moss, even as a toughness level goes. Santana is a tiny WR but will go up and compete for the ball, in all areas of the field, and not shy away from contact. He is a tough guy, definitely.

Just neither him nor Desean are on Steve Smith's level when it comes to that, because no one really is. It's one of the things that makes Steve Smith one of the best WRs we've seen in a long time.

adschofield
10-06-2007, 04:16 PM
I absolutely love DeSean Jackson...but more than his measurables, I love his swagger and character. I think he's actually faster than Harrison, and think that he will be a great WR in the NFL

Flyboy
10-06-2007, 07:20 PM
I absolutely love DeSean Jackson...but more than his measurables, I love his swagger and character.

Same here. I have a mancrush on him... definitely prefer him over Ginn.

619
10-06-2007, 08:06 PM
I think you're actually overlooking Santana's toughness. It is not an insult to be compared to Santana Moss, even as a toughness level goes. Santana is a tiny WR but will go up and compete for the ball, in all areas of the field, and not shy away from contact. He is a tough guy, definitely.

Just neither him nor Desean are on Steve Smith's level when it comes to that, because no one really is. It's one of the things that makes Steve Smith one of the best WRs we've seen in a long time.

i kno its not an insult to be compared to santana moss but i kno how talented desean jackson is and i believe he will be one of the leagues best receivers in a matter of a couple of years and deserves to be mentioned in the same way as megatron last year

soybean
12-01-2007, 02:55 AM
anyone think he can be on Devin Hester's level in the NFL. He does have the more prolific college career? and he's faster and more compact.

i hope so but everyone i predict to do well never does.

Babylon
12-01-2007, 11:13 AM
anyone think he can be on Devin Hester's level in the NFL. He does have the more prolific college career? and he's faster and more compact.

i hope so but everyone i predict to do well never does.



Both guys are about the same size so i dont see any differance there, to me Hester is much faster than Jackson and i think the combine will prove that out. You are talking returner so i would say no he isnt in a class with Hester.

TankDogg
12-02-2007, 06:48 PM
He definitely isn't as good of a receiver as Manningham.

no love
12-02-2007, 09:02 PM
He definitely isn't as good of a receiver as Manningham.

What?? Care to explain?

If Jackson had a competent qb throwing him the ball you might have a different opinion. What you haven't seen on tv is Jackson getting WIDE OPEN and Dongshore throwing it to a covered receiver.

soybean
12-02-2007, 09:04 PM
What?? Care to explain?

If Jackson had a competent qb throwing him the ball you might have a different opinion. What you haven't seen on tv is Jackson getting WIDE OPEN and Dongshore throwing it to a covered receiver.

i have to agree to this.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Although I agree, Manningham had Mallet as QB.But btw,Manningham did a great job against OSU how many dropped balls did he have?
People who want to argue and say that manningham is a better prospect by production fail to realize that Cal's offense spreads the ball out more and that Desean had a broken thumb for the first month of the season.

jballa838
12-02-2007, 09:46 PM
The Comparison of DeSean Jackson I see is Dante Hall, except better deep threat and route runner. With the ball in his hands, a lot of Dante emerges out it seems to me. But I am talking Dante of 2004ish where he had a pro bowl year.

TankDogg
12-03-2007, 04:57 PM
Although I agree, Manningham had Mallet as QB.But btw,Manningham did a great job against OSU how many dropped balls did he have?
People who want to argue and say that manningham is a better prospect by production fail to realize that Cal's offense spreads the ball out more and that Desean had a broken thumb for the first month of the season.
The whole offense didn't play well against Ohio Stae. Manninham had his best game of the year against Minnesota with Ryan Mallet at QB(5 catches 163 yards, two touchdowns). And Jackson wasn't injured the second half of the year and still did nothing. Robert Hawkins had a better year than he had. Manningham is bigger and run's in the late 4.3's. Jackson hates contact so he gator arm's alot of balls, Manningham doesn't mind getting hit. Jackson had a worst game than Manningham had against Ohio State, didn't he have a game of 4 catches for 5 yards.

BamaFalcon59
12-03-2007, 09:45 PM
Lavelle Hawkins is a good prospect in his own right. Productive, good hands, can kick return, and great game speed.

LonghornsLegend
12-03-2007, 11:59 PM
If he slips to the 20's id love for Dallas to take him, although I doubt he slides that far

no love
12-04-2007, 01:51 AM
The whole offense didn't play well against Ohio Stae. Manninham had his best game of the year against Minnesota with Ryan Mallet at QB(5 catches 163 yards, two touchdowns). And Jackson wasn't injured the second half of the year and still did nothing. Robert Hawkins had a better year than he had. Manningham is bigger and run's in the late 4.3's. Jackson hates contact so he gator arm's alot of balls, Manningham doesn't mind getting hit. Jackson had a worst game than Manningham had against Ohio State, didn't he have a game of 4 catches for 5 yards.

I will refer back to my previous statement to explain Hawkins vs. Jackson. I admit Jackson can get a case of alligator arms from time to time, but that is mainly because Longshore really just leaves his WR to get destroyed. But they don't run him over the middle that often because of the way he can stretch a defense. Hawkins gets all of the stuff over the middle, the comebacks and a lot of corner routes.

Hawkins is a tougher WR than Jackson who is must better at making the tough catch in traffic. But by then end of the year even Hawkins was getting a little bit timid catching the ball after getting just laid out from poorly placed balls by Longshore.

I can't tell you how many times Longshore missed a wide open Jackson though. You can't tell when you watch on TV, but at the game you will see Jackson being WIDE OPEN and Longshore not seeing him.

As far as that game with 4 catches for 5 yards Oregon State did a a great job of taking him out of the game at the expense of leaving Hawkins and Jordan singled up. Both had big days with Hawkins getting 192 and 2 tds and Jordan with another 68 yards. I guess take what the defense gives you =/ is the best advise for a young qb in his first start.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2007, 08:18 AM
I'm not really saying his size will prevent him from having success, and I'm not saying he won't be a good NFL player. I am saying he will be a bit of a project because he has alot of developing to do as a WR. For those reasons (size really only being a risk) he's not in my eyes worth a top 10 pick. I rank him currently #21 overall, so obviously I do consider him a good prospect...just not top 5 or 10 like many have been calling him. Top 10 players need to step in on day one and contribute (QB's are an exception).

I tend to agree, Jackson is an awfully small player and I'm not sold on his ability to survive in the NFL. Can he take the pounding or is he only going to be a #3 receiver to preserve his health. Just not sure.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-04-2007, 10:32 AM
The whole offense didn't play well against Ohio Stae. Manninham had his best game of the year against Minnesota with Ryan Mallet at QB(5 catches 163 yards, two touchdowns).That was against Minnesota who sucks.Jackson's best game was against a much better ORegon team.The only thing Ive seen from Manningham is inconsistency. And Jackson wasn't injured the second half of the year and still did nothing.How much have you seen him play this year?Hes had leg problems most of the year.The next thing you'll be saying is that Stanford held him to 0rec and 0yards.Oh wait he didnt play due to injury. Robert Hawkins had a better year than he had.Hawkins is a day one pick.And again injuries and the fact that the defense focues entirely on Jackson. Manningham is bigger and run's in the late 4.3's.Thats cool Jackson runs in the 4.2s. Jackson hates contact so he gator arm's alot of balls, Manningham doesn't mind getting hit. Jackson had a worst game than Manningham had against Ohio State, didn't he have a game of 4 catches for 5 yards.You can say what you want at least Jackson caught those balls.You can say oh Michigan's offense played horrible.It doesnt change the fact that Manningham dropped more balls than he caught that game.Not to mention that Kevin Riley made his first career start that game.

TankDogg
12-04-2007, 11:47 AM
That was against Minnesota who sucks.Jackson's best game was against a much better ORegon team.The only thing Ive seen from Manningham is inconsistency.How much have you seen him play this year?Hes had leg problems most of the year.The next thing you'll be saying is that Stanford held him to 0rec and 0yards.Oh wait he didnt play due to injury.Hawkins is a day one pick.And again injuries and the fact that the defense focues entirely on Jackson. Thats cool Jackson runs in the 4.2s. You can say what you want at least Jackson caught those balls.You can say oh Michigan's offense played horrible.It doesnt change the fact that Manningham dropped more balls than he caught that game.Not to mention that Kevin Riley made his first career start that game.

Now you sound really stupid, "atleast he caught the balls". A 4 catch for 5 yard game is terrible for a guy who's supposedly a good receiver. And don't say he was hurt or something cause the week before against UCLA I believe he had a 100 yard receiving game. Manningham was having an outstanding year up until the Ohio State game. He had a bad game, but your actin like no other top receiver had a game where they dropped some passes. Desean is small, not very tough, and has his share of drop's too. Manningham is the better route runner, is a clutch receiver at times, and actually has played well this year. James Hardy got completly shut down against Jack Ikuawerma to 4 catches for 17 yards. Manningham beat Jack for two touchdowns including a 97 yarder. And that was with Ryan Mallet at QB. He may be inconsistant at times but Jackson is even more inconsistant.

draftguru151
12-04-2007, 11:55 AM
Manningham got shut down by Ike too. The 97 yarder was in zone and the safety made a bad play and the other TD was on a quick pass where Ike got juked. The rest of the game Manningham was completely shut down.

TankDogg
12-04-2007, 12:10 PM
Manningham got shut down by Ike too. The 97 yarder was in zone and the safety made a bad play and the other TD was on a quick pass where Ike got juked. The rest of the game Manningham was completely shut down.
If you watch the play again you'll see before the saftey misssed Manningham he made a good move on Ike and than beat the saftey. And most receivers didn't make any big play's against Ike this year and Mallet threw some bad balls.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-04-2007, 07:11 PM
If you watch the play again you'll see before the saftey misssed Manningham he made a good move on Ike and than beat the saftey. And most receivers didn't make any big play's against Ike this year and Mallet threw some bad balls.your saying I sound stupid and yet you cant tell the difference between man and zone coverage.

soybean
12-04-2007, 07:21 PM
your saying I sound stupid and yet you cant tell the difference between man and zone coverage.

lol. what a noob. (tankdogg)

TankDogg
12-04-2007, 07:55 PM
your saying I sound stupid and yet you cant tell the difference between man and zone coverage.
I didn't say he beat him man to man but he did get past him to get free and beat a safey. And someone standing up for a 4 catch for 5 yard game is stupid.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-04-2007, 09:22 PM
The reason why he got past Ike is because Ike wasnt responsible for him.The only thing Ike could have done against Manningham is bump him at the LOS.Other than that nothing else.

LonghornsLegend
12-07-2007, 09:36 PM
Is it a lock that Desean Jackson is going to go before Lavelle Hawkins?? Or is it a chance Hawkins goes off the board first with good workouts?

energizerbunny
12-07-2007, 09:41 PM
I can't wait to see the documentary his brother has been filming since his highschool days.


He runs great routes however I've never really viewed him as a number 1 WR on Sundays.

soybean
12-07-2007, 09:56 PM
Is it a lock that Desean Jackson is going to go before Lavelle Hawkins?? Or is it a chance Hawkins goes off the board first with good workouts?

There's a chance that hawkins will be a better receiver but i don't see any scenario where hawkins will go before D-Jax in the draft. The obvious reason is because of his punt returns.

I remember a stat I think it was he had a stretch of 6 returns for tds in 27 tries or something like that.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-07-2007, 11:32 PM
I think Desean will be taken before Hawkins because of potential.Hawkins is a great prospect though and could slip into late round one.