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PACKmanN
10-02-2007, 04:57 PM
I know if this guy declares he can become the second best running back but do you guys think this guy can fall to Green Bay laps unlike Lynch did? and who do you think is the better running back him or Lynch?


Also how tall is this guy? he listed at 5''11 and 230 but is he 5''9?

Paranoidmoonduck
10-02-2007, 06:36 PM
The way Green Bay is playing and the way Stewart has been running the last 5 weeks indicates that he'll likely go before Green Bay picks. A lot can still happen, but I wouldn't count on him falling into their laps.

As for who is better between him and Lynch, I still think Lynch was more consistent, intense, and had better instincts on the field. Stewart would be the better athlete between the two in my estimation.

Addict
10-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I know if this guy declares he can become the second best running back but do you guys think this guy can fall to Green Bay laps unlike Lynch did? and who do you think is the better running back him or Lynch?


Also how tall is this guy? he listed at 5''11 and 230 but is he 5''9?

I know what you mean but thats a weird way of putting it.

I just picture you in the supermarket walking to the manager:

'also, what is this? It says milk but is it yoghurt?'

Vikes99ej
10-02-2007, 06:55 PM
I was saying he's a top ten pick a year ago, and I'm still saying it now.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 06:57 PM
I know if this guy declares he can become the second best running back but do you guys think this guy can fall to Green Bay laps unlike Lynch did? and who do you think is the better running back him or Lynch?


Also how tall is this guy? he listed at 5''11 and 230 but is he 5''9?

I doubt he's actually 5'9", but if he somehow did come in at that height, it would hurt his draft stock quite a bit IMO.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-02-2007, 06:58 PM
I doubt he's actually 5'9", but if he somehow did come in at that height, it would hurt his draft stock at least a bit IMO.

Why is that? Runningback's don't need to be tall, and if Stewart is a legitimate 5-9 230 with his find of foot quickness, then I think that might even help his cause.

619
10-02-2007, 07:00 PM
I was saying he's a top ten pick a year ago, and I'm still saying it now.

if lynch didnt make top 10 a year ago how could u expect stewart who i dont think is as good to be there

toonsterwu
10-02-2007, 07:00 PM
I know if this guy declares he can become the second best running back but do you guys think this guy can fall to Green Bay laps unlike Lynch did? and who do you think is the better running back him or Lynch?


Also how tall is this guy? he listed at 5''11 and 230 but is he 5''9?

I'm not sure if he is definitely the 2nd best running back. Whether or not he can fall to the Packers sorta depends on where the Packers pick, don't ya think? It is only a few games in ... it seems like you are assuming a mid-20's pick or so for the Packers, which certainly can happen, but let's not get too far ahead.

But playing the hypothetical for a second ... sure I think he could fall to the Packers in the mid-20's. Steven Jackson fell a bit as he was being nitpicked for a variety of things, time amongst it. If he fails to run a stellar time (say, mid-4.4 at that size), his stock is definitely up in the air.

no love
10-02-2007, 07:20 PM
if lynch didnt make top 10 a year ago how could u expect stewart who i dont think is as good to be there

All it takes is one team to fall in love... case in point... Ted Ginn. Just kidding.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 07:24 PM
Why is that? Runningback's don't need to be tall, and if Stewart is a legitimate 5-9 230 with his find of foot quickness, then I think that might even help his cause.

Keep in mind when I say quite a bit, I don't necessarily mean like from early/mid first to like mid second or third round. I was thinking like from mid 1st to late first. I just think that when scouts think a guy is a certain height or weight, or runs a certain 40 time etc, and then the number ends up being a decent amount below what they are expecting, it's always going to hurt.

I also think Stewart has been somewhat inconsistent in his career thus far, and I believe has had a few minor injuries etc. I think scouts are willing to overlook that a little more for the "prototypical" RB. But if(and I really don't think it's going to happen) he came out as 5'9," He'd be somewhat below "prototypical" height for a RB, and I think scouts and teams would be a little less inclined to overlook perceived shortcomings because of it.

I think you can look at a couple of examples. DeAngelo Williams went at the end of the first round(admittedly in a very strong draft). He was, I believe 5'9", 217, and ran a 4.4 with and 4.48 against the wind at his pro day. He was the NCAA all time leader in all purpose yards, most 100 yard games, and 4th all time in rushing yardage. I firmly believe that had he been 5'11", he would have gone higher, although his level of competition was probably a bigger factor as well as the strength of said draft.

Stewart will most likely go for over 1,000 yards this season. But he hasn't gone for over 1,000 in a season yet, and his average YPC up until this season hasn't been all that special(according to ESPN) at 3.5, and 5.4 YPC. I think as of this moment his draft stock is predicated largely on his prototypical size, weight, and speed. I think if you take one of those away, and suddenly he's 5'9" instead of 5'11", his draft stock will at least take something of a hit. Whether a couple of spots, or 10 spots, I don't know. But I firmly believe it would hurt him at least a bit.

Keep in mind, I really like Stewart alot. I'm just saying I think suddenly losing 2 inches would hurt his stock.

KILLERSANTA
10-02-2007, 07:32 PM
I love this kid....I think he's better than Lynch, but may get drafted lower. Because this is a stronger draft class......Assuming many of the JR's come out.

etk
10-02-2007, 08:34 PM
I doubt he's actually 5'9", but if he somehow did come in at that height, it would hurt his draft stock quite a bit IMO.

Based on observation and personal experience, shorter running backs are harder to tackle than taller ones. Stocky backs like Stewart are very desirable as they have a low center of gravity, bounce of tackles easily, and are difficult to wrap. Look at MJD, LT & Michael Turner. They're all stocky explosive runners like Stewart. Height shouldn't be a factor in draft stock unless a guy is under 5'6 or above 6'0.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 08:43 PM
Based on observation and personal experience, shorter running backs are harder to tackle than taller ones. Stocky backs like Stewart are very desirable as they have a low center of gravity, bounce of tackles easily, and are difficult to wrap. Look at MJD, LT & Michael Turner. They're all stocky explosive runners like Stewart. Height shouldn't be a factor in draft stock unless a guy is under 5'6 or above 6'0.

I totally agree with you honestly. I'm not saying it would hurt him in my eyes. What I am saying is that suddenly losing 2 inches at the combine or at a pro day would hurt him at least a little bit. I also think if he comes in at 5'9", he'll come in weighing less than 230 as well. I'm also not saying it would hurt him as a player. I just think it would cause him to slide a bit. Again, it might only be a couple places. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "quite a bit." Again, I don't think it really matters anyway, since I doubt he comes in at 5'9" anyway.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-02-2007, 08:46 PM
Keep in mind when I say quite a bit, I don't necessarily mean like from early/mid first to like mid second or third round. I was thinking like from mid 1st to late first. I just think that when scouts think a guy is a certain height or weight, or runs a certain 40 time etc, and then the number ends up being a decent amount below what they are expecting, it's always going to hurt.

I also think Stewart has been somewhat inconsistent in his career thus far, and I believe has had a few minor injuries etc. I think scouts are willing to overlook that a little more for the "prototypical" RB. But if(and I really don't think it's going to happen) he came out as 5'9," He'd be somewhat below "prototypical" height for a RB, and I think scouts and teams would be a little less inclined to overlook perceived shortcomings because of it.

I think you can look at a couple of examples. DeAngelo Williams went at the end of the first round(admittedly in a very strong draft). He was, I believe 5'9", 217, and ran a 4.4 with and 4.48 against the wind at his pro day. He was the NCAA all time leader in all purpose yards, most 100 yard games, and 4th all time in rushing yardage. I firmly believe that had he been 5'11", he would have gone higher, although his level of competition was probably a bigger factor as well as the strength of said draft.

Stewart will most likely go for over 1,000 yards this season. But he hasn't gone for over 1,000 in a season yet, and his average YPC up until this season hasn't been all that special(according to ESPN) at 3.5, and 5.4 YPC. I think as of this moment his draft stock is predicated largely on his prototypical size, weight, and speed. I think if you take one of those away, and suddenly he's 5'9" instead of 5'11", his draft stock will at least take something of a hit. Whether a couple of spots, or 10 spots, I don't know. But I firmly believe it would hurt him at least a bit.

Keep in mind, I really like Stewart alot. I'm just saying I think suddenly losing 2 inches would hurt his stock.

I really doubt any scout with half a brain would knock Stewart for being 2 inches shorter than his school listed him. Height only really tends to be an issue for runningbacks when the runner is too tall (exposing him to big hits and making it harder to get low) or if the runner is so short that he cannot carry enough weight (Garrett Wolfe says hello). In Stewart's case, neither apply.

Also, since when is 5-11 the prototypical height for a runningback? Additionally, considering that height is probably less important for runningbacks than any other position, consider how much 2 inches really is. Finally, consider that we're talking about a complete shot in the dark guess as to his real height. If he measures in a 5-10, does he fall half as far as if he came in a 5-9. What if he measure at 6-0? Does his stock rise.

Vision, strength, durability, speed, weight, and a good deal more attributes are vastly more important to a running prospect than height will ever be.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 08:55 PM
I really doubt any scout with half a brain would knock Stewart for being 2 inches shorter than his school listed him. Height only really tends to be an issue for runningbacks when the runner is too tall (exposing him to big hits and making it harder to get low) or if the runner is so short that he cannot carry enough weight (Garrett Wolfe says hello). In Stewart's case, neither apply.

Also, since when is 5-11 the prototypical height for a runningback? Additionally, considering that height is probably less important for runningbacks than any other position, consider how much 2 inches really is. Finally, consider that we're talking about a complete shot in the dark guess as to his real height. If he measures in a 5-10, does he fall half as far as if he came in a 5-9. What if he measure at 6-0? Does his stock rise.

Vision, strength, durability, speed, weight, and a good deal more attributes are vastly more important to a running prospect than height will ever be.

I completely agree with you. As I said, I doubt he'll come in at 5'9" anyway. But again, he really hasn't been tremendously consistent so far in his career. So I think that yes, losing 2 inches could hurt him at least a bit. It's basically a moot point anyway, because even if his stock slips or goes up, we'll probably never really know because where he gets drafted is where he gets drafted. No one's going to say "well, we would have drafted X player but he was too light or too short or too slow." Anyway, just my personal opinion of what can happen when a players supposed measurables change to something else. Yet again, it probably won't matter anyway, because I doubt there's that much of a discrepancy anyway.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 09:58 PM
Put it this way. IMO, if Mike Hart was 2 inches taller(5'11") it would improve his draft stock in my opinion. Not saying speeding him up or anything. I think you're crazy if you think it wouldn't help him at least a little bit, especially since if he was 5'11", you could add some weight to his frame, maybe up to 210 or 212 or something. I think it would certainly help his stock. I have no doubt of that. So I think if that's the case, dropping 2 inches on Stewart would hurt him a little bit. No only because of the height, but because it would probably mean his weight would drop a little bit too. I just think if a measurable or a set of measurables are more or less by a decent amount than what they've been reported, it's bound to help or hurt them, at least a little. Obviously, I'm the only one that feels this way though, so clearly I'm the one that's crazy.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-02-2007, 10:37 PM
Put it this way. IMO, if Mike Hart was 2 inches taller(5'11") it would improve his draft stock in my opinion. Not saying speeding him up or anything. I think you're crazy if you think it wouldn't help him at least a little bit, especially since if he was 5'11", you could add some weight to his frame, maybe up to 210 or 212 or something. I think it would certainly help his stock. I have no doubt of that. So I think if that's the case, dropping 2 inches on Stewart would hurt him a little bit. No only because of the height, but because it would probably mean his weight would drop a little bit too. I just think if a measurable or a set of measurables are more or less by a decent amount than what they've been reported, it's bound to help or hurt them, at least a little. Obviously, I'm the only one that feels this way though, so clearly I'm the one that's crazy.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. You just took the discussion in a very very hypothetical direction that doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what we were talking about.

ironman4579
10-02-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm not even sure how to respond to this. You just took the discussion in a very very hypothetical direction that doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what we were talking about.

True, I added in weight, which I shouldn't have done. My main point was basically that I think if a guy suddenly gains 2 inches, it's going to help him at least a bit(not regardless of position however, and obviously certain guys would be different, but I think going from 5'9" to 5'11" for say again, Mike Hart, would help his stock at least a bit), and if a guy suddenly loses 2 inches(again, not regardless of position) versus what was expected of him, it's going to hurt him a bit. I think Stewart is probably, if not 5'11" anyway, then close to it, and it won't matter. But anyway, I'm clearly the only one that thinks this way, so don't even worry about it anymore.

Primetime21
10-02-2007, 11:19 PM
If Jonathan changed his number to something in the 30s his draft stock would drop rappidly.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-02-2007, 11:22 PM
True, I added in weight, which I shouldn't have done. My main point was basically that I think if a guy suddenly gains 2 inches, it's going to help him at least a bit(not regardless of position however, and obviously certain guys would be different, but I think going from 5'9" to 5'11" for say again, Mike Hart, would help his stock at least a bit), and if a guy suddenly loses 2 inches(again, not regardless of position) versus what was expected of him, it's going to hurt him a bit. I think Stewart is probably, if not 5'11" anyway, then close to it, and it won't matter. But anyway, I'm clearly the only one that thinks this way, so don't even worry about it anymore.

I won't worry, but I'd just like to point out that we're talking about the heights that these players actually are, not what a growth spurt would do to them.

Stewart and Hart are the players they are. 2 inches in either direction isn't going to change that. Hart's going to go where he's going to go because of what he does on the field and at the combine, as it is with Stewart, and as it is with every other player. Let's just leave it at that.

toonsterwu
10-02-2007, 11:28 PM
Hmm ... interesting discussion

KS - Why do you think this is a stronger draft class? I tend to think this is a weaker draft class. That said, RB's sometimes live outside of the boundaries of normal draft assumptions, due to the nature of the position.

As for this whole height thing - I think if he came in a bit shorter than 5'11", I think his draft stock would be helped, due to the hypothetical "well, he has an injury history, but he's not as tall as we thought, so potentially, his body might not get exposed as much, so if we get him protected/in condition and so forth, a la Frank Gore, we might be able to tap the raw potential".

At the end of the day, though, numbers (times) will be more important than his height.

As for DeAngelo Williams, it was a nature of

a) perception of wear and tear
b) perception of lack of a top tier gear
c) the nature of the running back position
d) in some respects, his running style

and a couple other factors perhaps that put him where he went ... i don't think him being 5'11" would've made a difference

PACKmanN
10-03-2007, 03:14 PM
ok so lets say this. If he comes into the draft after everything and listed as 5''11 how low do you guys think he will last, samething goes with 5''10 and 5''9.

no love
10-03-2007, 04:37 PM
ok so lets say this. If he comes into the draft after everything and listed as 5''11 how low do you guys think he will last, samething goes with 5''10 and 5''9.

I think the way he runs and weighs will be much more indicative of where he is drafted. If he is anything as good as advertised in the measurable department, I can't see him falling out of the top 15. You simply do not pass up on a 230 rb with 4.4 speed and great vision (this year) because he has not put up amazing numbers in college. Besides, Oregon is a hard place to run with the weather being what it is and he also runs in a spread offense hardly ever having the benefit of two tight end or two back sets.

The way teams are platooning running backs, I think even some good teams with a good (but not great back, or aging back) could pick him up.

duckseason
10-03-2007, 04:49 PM
ok so lets say this. If he comes into the draft after everything and listed as 5''11 how low do you guys think he will last, samething goes with 5''10 and 5''9.

His height is not a factor. He appears to be either 5'10" or 5'11". He has the prototypical size/speed combination that NFL teams covet. Barring injury or a significant dip in performance, he will most likely last until the pick of the 2nd team that's looking to spend a 1st rounder on a RB. That could be anywhere from top 5 on down. If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere between #10 and #20. I'm hoping he goes to the best team possible, so I want him to slip.

duckseason
10-03-2007, 04:55 PM
I think the way he runs and weighs will be much more indicative of where he is drafted. If he is anything as good as advertised in the measurable department, I can't see him falling out of the top 15. You simply do not pass up on a 230 rb with 4.4 speed and great vision (this year) because he has not put up amazing numbers in college. Besides, Oregon is a hard place to run with the weather being what it is and he also runs in a spread offense hardly ever having the benefit of two tight end or two back sets.

The way teams are platooning running backs, I think even some good teams with a good (but not great back, or aging back) could pick him up.

Yeah, the weather really isn't a factor with his production. His nagging injuries hampered him throughout his first few years, and he's always had to split carries. People often forget that we have another guy in that backfield who will be playing on Sundays as well in Jeremiah Johnson. Not to mention the legs of Dennis Dixon. When healthy, Stewart has been consistently productive. I think injury is the biggest concern right now in regards to his draft stock. If he proves he can remain healthy for an entire season, I expect to see him selected in the top 10.

LonghornsLegend
10-03-2007, 05:29 PM
isnt the protypical height for a RB 5'10 anyway? so going from 5'11 to 5'9 isnt even a concern/worry...maybe if were talking about a LT going from 6'5 to 6'3, but in this I doubt it has anything to do with his draft stock or as a prospect

oregonduckfootball
10-03-2007, 05:45 PM
I talk to johnathan a lot and i am about 90 percent possitive he will STAY at oregon for another year

duckseason
10-03-2007, 05:51 PM
I talk to johnathan a lot and i am about 90 percent possitive he will STAY at oregon for another year

Really? That's good to hear. I was thinking the same thing until I heard Bellotti say that he would recommend leaving if he were projected to be a 1st round pick. With Dixon leaving, it would be nice to have the two headed monster back to help Costa along in his development. Although I'm excited about Crenshaw and wouldn't mind seeing Jeremiah in an increased role. What exactly has he said to make you feel so confident he'll be back? If I were him, I'd leave.

ironman4579
10-03-2007, 06:24 PM
Hmm ... interesting discussion

KS - Why do you think this is a stronger draft class? I tend to think this is a weaker draft class. That said, RB's sometimes live outside of the boundaries of normal draft assumptions, due to the nature of the position.

As for this whole height thing - I think if he came in a bit shorter than 5'11", I think his draft stock would be helped, due to the hypothetical "well, he has an injury history, but he's not as tall as we thought, so potentially, his body might not get exposed as much, so if we get him protected/in condition and so forth, a la Frank Gore, we might be able to tap the raw potential".

At the end of the day, though, numbers (times) will be more important than his height.

As for DeAngelo Williams, it was a nature of

a) perception of wear and tear
b) perception of lack of a top tier gear
c) the nature of the running back position
d) in some respects, his running style

and a couple other factors perhaps that put him where he went ... i don't think him being 5'11" would've made a difference

Ok, like I said, I'm the only one that seems to feel this way. I guess my feeling has always been that sometimes perception is more important at first than the reality. When the reality doesn't quite match up to the expected perception, it can hurt a player. When a players real measurables(or measurable in this case) don't match the perception, I always thought it would hurt them, at least a little. But when 2 posters I respect in toonster and PMD see it a different way, then it seems, in this case, my perception is the one that isn't matching up with reality.

P-L
10-03-2007, 06:37 PM
Really? That's good to hear. I was thinking the same thing until I heard Bellotti say that he would recommend leaving if he were projected to be a 1st round pick. With Dixon leaving, it would be nice to have the two headed monster back to help Costa along in his development. Although I'm excited about Crenshaw and wouldn't mind seeing Jeremiah in an increased role. What exactly has he said to make you feel so confident he'll be back? If I were him, I'd leave.
I tend to agree. If you are a junior who has NFL talent, it's better to leave than to wear your body down with another year in college.

toonsterwu
10-03-2007, 06:40 PM
Ok, like I said, I'm the only one that seems to feel this way. I guess my feeling has always been that sometimes perception is more important at first than the reality. When the reality doesn't quite match up to the expected perception, it can hurt a player. When a players real measurables(or measurable in this case) don't match the perception, I always thought it would hurt them, at least a little. But when 2 posters I respect in toonster and PMD see it a different way, then it seems, in this case, my perception is the one that isn't matching up with reality.

I can definitely understand your case as well. I would also add that, he can't come in too short. Too short would be a problem. I think 5'9"ish (just using the numbers thrown out) would be fine for him. Too short, then you wonder about the wear and tear with that frame.

Geo
10-03-2007, 06:48 PM
I take it the 5' 9" mention is nothing more than blind hearsay/speculation?

I've really liked what I've seen of Stewart this year, he's shown me that he's more than a potential workout warrior, which I was hoping would be the case before the season.

I tend to agree. If you are a junior who has NFL talent, it's better to leave than to wear your body down with another year in college.
That's been my thinking as well, I am always in favor of a junior runningback declaring early. In comparison to the rest of the league, runningback is a young man's position.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-03-2007, 07:03 PM
ok so lets say this. If he comes into the draft after everything and listed as 5''11 how low do you guys think he will last, samething goes with 5''10 and 5''9.

Well, if Jonathan Stewart continues to tear it up on the field, he'll finish with about 1500 yard and 10+ touchdowns. If he manages to couple that with a sub 4.5 40 and shows the kind of strength and footspeed he appears to have in the drills, I'd say he's got a very strong chance of going top 20.

Remember though, runningback's always fall. However, in a draft class that seems to lack a lot of pop at the top, I could very well see some team jumping on Stewart between 10-20, and need could push him up boards like it did for Lynch.

We have a long way to go though.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-03-2007, 07:07 PM
Ok, like I said, I'm the only one that seems to feel this way. I guess my feeling has always been that sometimes perception is more important at first than the reality. When the reality doesn't quite match up to the expected perception, it can hurt a player. When a players real measurables(or measurable in this case) don't match the perception, I always thought it would hurt them, at least a little. But when 2 posters I respect in toonster and PMD see it a different way, then it seems, in this case, my perception is the one that isn't matching up with reality.

I think your perception is right, but I think that draft fans such as us are more prone to overreaction after measurements than those making the decisions. Then again, I guess the fact that we are closely second guessing school measurements already means that our perception isn't that off no matter what Stewart comes in at.

Toonster makes another point I completely ignored. If Stewart comes in at a sub 5-9 and 230+, people are going to wonder how long his knees will be able to hold out.

darnik44two
10-03-2007, 09:22 PM
Here's a Stewert sig if anyone wants to wear it...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/darnik/Jonathan-Stewert-Newest2.jpg

mqtirishfan
10-03-2007, 09:31 PM
if lynch didnt make top 10 a year ago how could u expect stewart who i dont think is as good to be there

1) I disagree with you about Lynch being better.
2) Different year, different strengths.
3) Different year, different team needs.
4) I feel he's the 2nd best back in the class. If a team really needs a back, they should take him.
5) You never know what will happen in in April.

toonsterwu
10-03-2007, 09:54 PM
I agree ... you can't really judge a player vs. another player vis-a-vis their draft positioning. At the end of the day, the one mantra about the draft that always holds true, for me, is that, it only takes one team. We can debate all we want about player x and y, but if someone like player y better, they could ahead. For example, if someone really thought Jonathan Stewart was better than Darren McFadden, who knows. I mean, few expected Edgerrin over Ricky back in the day.

On a side note, I like Lynch better than Stewart. I just like his running fluidity a bit better, and I think he's a more well-rounded back than Stewart. Definitely close, though. If the talk about James Davis potentially running a 4.4 is true, then I wouldn't be surprised to see James Davis push up, so I'm not necessarily sold that Stewart will definitely be number 2. But if Stewart comes out, I do think he's at the top of the board on the RB list. Another possible comp for Stewart that I haven't seen much is Shaun Alexander.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-03-2007, 10:16 PM
Another possible comp for Stewart that I haven't seen much is Shaun Alexander.

I don't know Toon, Shaun Alexander was a lot smoother and a bigger danger receiving the ball down the field than Stewart is. I see where they are similar physically, but I don't know when it comes to running ability.

Personally, Stewart reminds me of LaMont Jordan a lot with a bit more mobility. Very similar body types, similar running style, perhaps a few durability problems.

Sniper
10-03-2007, 11:07 PM
Here's a Stewert sig if anyone wants to wear it...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/darnik/Jonathan-Stewert-Newest2.jpg

It's StewArt, not Stewert.

SenorGato
10-03-2007, 11:09 PM
He actually reminds me of a bigger, not quite as fast MJD. They both love contact, break tackles like a motherf*cker, and have well grounded games as RBs.

MJD would have been seen as a much better prospect if he wasn't 5'6. Perfect RB build...being short doesn't hurt a RB as much as running style and body type...

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-03-2007, 11:58 PM
speaking of ricky anyone else think stewart is a not to rich man's ricky? Similar size/speed and both have incredibly quick feet

Primetime21
10-04-2007, 01:19 PM
Can anyone else see the Falcons watch Stewart drop to the 20s and trade their next years 1st for him. I mean he has experience running in a spread which is basically what Atlanta runs and they need someone to compliment Norwood and Stewart could easily get the tough yards.

That being said Atlanta probably wont trade a low draft pick or draft picks next year for him when they have a lot more glaring needs but as a Falcons fan I wouldnt be mad at Mckay for making this move.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-04-2007, 03:19 PM
He actually reminds me of a bigger, not quite as fast MJD. They both love contact, break tackles like a motherf*cker, and have well grounded games as RBs.

MJD would have been seen as a much better prospect if he wasn't 5'6. Perfect RB build...being short doesn't hurt a RB as much as running style and body type...

The issue with that comparison is that Stewart hasn't really shown the kind of explosiveness Drew did in college. From what I've seen of Stewart sprinting out on the field, I'm fairly sure he doesn't run a 4.39.

toonsterwu
10-04-2007, 03:51 PM
Personally, my preferred comparisons are Deuce McAllister or Steven Jackson ... that said, there's fair knocks against those comparisons validity.

As for the Falcons, my honest guess would be no. I just can't see them dealing a future first off ... particularly when they have two 2nd rounders to play with, but more because I think they can probably find a solid back later on.

Komp
10-04-2007, 09:31 PM
I don't mind the Lamont Jordan or the Deuce comparisons, but I think it is safe to say Stewart probably has a bit more mobility and higher ceiling than either of them, especially if he can improve upon receiving out of the backfield.

toonsterwu
10-05-2007, 08:46 AM
Another possible comparison might be a taller Travis Henry.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-05-2007, 02:30 PM
Another possible comparison might be a taller Travis Henry.

I actually kinda like that one, although I guess we'll see exactly how much taller Stewart ends up being.

D-Rod
10-05-2007, 03:00 PM
Personally, my preferred comparisons are Deuce McAllister or Steven Jackson ... that said, there's fair knocks against those comparisons validity.

As for the Falcons, my honest guess would be no. I just can't see them dealing a future first off ... particularly when they have two 2nd rounders to play with, but more because I think they can probably find a solid back later on.

Indeed. It would be very foolish for the Falcons to deal a future first. It's not like they could do so feeling sure it won't be a top 15 pick. They already have an explosive RB in Norwood, they just need a bigger, reliable guy to form a flexible tandem. It might be they look for a RB at the top of the 2nd, but I can't see them mortgaging next year's first.

Mr. Marcus
10-05-2007, 08:08 PM
I like Lynch better and it's not close.

I wouldn't spend a first on Jonathon Stewart. I see him being nothing more than an average NFL starting RB.

LonghornsLegend
10-05-2007, 09:31 PM
I can see someone like Tampa Bay going after him in the first, he would do well in that offense

619
10-05-2007, 09:39 PM
I can see someone like Tampa Bay going after him in the first, he would do well in that offense

i dont kno if tampa is ready to park the cadillac just yet

Green Bay Scat
10-06-2007, 12:37 AM
i dont kno if tampa is ready to park the cadillac just yet

lol i love that

soybean
12-31-2007, 04:30 PM
wow wow wow.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 04:34 PM
im at work where i can't see the game so i was like...why did someone dig up this old thread?

so i looked at the stats for the oregon bowl game and wow....

Stewarts going to declare now for sure....

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Stewart I think has just cemented his status as a top 20 pick

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 04:35 PM
What has he done??

Tampa 2 4 life
12-31-2007, 04:36 PM
What has he done??

Taking advantage of the worst Defensive Playcalling in football history...

fenikz
12-31-2007, 04:40 PM
I'm go out on a limb and say that Stewart will be better than McFadden in the NFL, he reminds me so much of AD

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm go out on a limb and say that Stewart will be better than McFadden in the NFL, he reminds me so much of AD

McFadden seems tall and without much bulk....i may be wrong though, but if true, thats asking for injuries in the nfl for a HB.

stewarts got some more meat on his bones, thats for sure

619
12-31-2007, 04:43 PM
I'm go out on a limb and say that Stewart will be better than McFadden in the NFL, he reminds me so much of AD

Interesting since McFadden reminds a lot of people of AD himself too.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 04:46 PM
McFadden reminds me of a lanky LaDainian Tomlinson. Lightning quick and fast, but more physical than they look. Great stiff arms too.

oregonbucfan
01-01-2008, 05:42 AM
Stewart put himself in the top 10. Laugh now but wait until the combines.

Scott Wright
01-01-2008, 05:50 AM
I know I am getting in late on this thread but I have always loved Jonathan Stewart. He reminds me a lot of Jamal Lewis coming out with his blend of size, speed and power. If Stewart declares early he'll be my #2 running back and definitely be one of my Top 10-15 prospects overall.

falconsrule
01-01-2008, 07:43 AM
McFadden seems tall and without much bulk....i may be wrong though, but if true, thats asking for injuries in the nfl for a HB.

stewarts got some more meat on his bones, thats for sure

McFadden has a big upper body but small legs....Im guessing he will add on a few pounds on the next level though.

toonsterwu
01-01-2008, 08:55 AM
McFadden's legs really seem to be a growing issue, as much as it can be for a top prospect.

I was commenting on the RB's to someone the other day, forget who. But as for Stewart, as great as he is, his status will make or break based on the combine. I know some are rumoring a high 4.3 time, and if that happens, he might even put a charge up to scare McFadden a tad. Probably wouldn't overtake McFadden, but if he did run that well, he'd close the gap. That said, there's still some folks that are anticipating a mid-4.5 time, and in that case, he'd probably slip to the late first. Keep in mind the position - RB is one that teams often are willing to wait on.

I still like Mendenhall a tad better than Stewart, personally, as I think Rashard's got more pop to his game.

OzTitan
01-01-2008, 08:56 AM
Damnit Stewart why did you have to kick ass so much, I was hoping you'd last until the Titans pick and be the clear BPA forcing us to finally get a real all round back :P

49er Fan #1
01-01-2008, 09:33 AM
I don't see Stewart falling that far if he declares.

nyjetsfan15
01-01-2008, 10:28 AM
i think stewart has such a good combination of speed and power that the 2 inches dosen't even matter much, although i think that the perfect height for him would be 5'10. what a game yesterday!

Babylon
01-01-2008, 11:45 AM
I've said it before that i dont think it's clear cut who will be the better pro between Stewart and McFadden, not the higher pick but the better player.

619
01-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Damnit Stewart why did you have to kick ass so much, I was hoping you'd last until the Titans pick and be the clear BPA forcing us to finally get a real all round back :P

The Titans have taken a RB on the first day in the last two drafts. Now that they have a featured back in LenDale White who ran for over 1100+ yards this season its highly unlikely even if a player like Stewart is still on the board that they go RB again.

T-Rat42
01-01-2008, 02:38 PM
Stewart is a freak of nature and there is no way he'll fall to Green Bay. It looks like Seattle really likes him and there's a lot of other teams that could use a monster like Stewart.

In my opinion Lynch is a better pro prospect than Stewart. Stew is defintely stronger but I think he lacks vision and break away speed. He's not gonna be able to run all over defenders in the pros like he does in college.

fenikz
01-01-2008, 04:39 PM
If the rumors are true and Arizona is shopping Edge, I definitely wouldn't mind him with pick 16

BeerBaron
01-01-2008, 07:45 PM
i think the texans are a team who would be helped out a lot by a player like stewart and are going to be picking in the perfect range to grab a round 1 running back.

they guys they have are becoming ancient and both green and dayne were hurt off and on a lot throughout the year...

stewart with a healthy schaub and andre johnson might really scare the other teams in that division sh*tless...

Paranoidmoonduck
01-01-2008, 07:54 PM
Stewart is a great talent, but I'm still not sure he's ever shown any great comfort level at the runningback position. Maybe it's lack of effort or just not great instincts, but I fully expected a player of his ability to play a more dominant role in college than he has.

I find it interesting that you still find people who don't rank Stewart in the top 5 runningbacks. I'm not quite prepared to go that far, but, depending on what kind of 40 time he runs, I might lean towards a prospect like Ray Rice before picking Stewart.

OzTitan
01-01-2008, 09:45 PM
The Titans have taken a RB on the first day in the last two drafts. Now that they have a featured back in LenDale White who ran for over 1100+ yards this season its highly unlikely even if a player like Stewart is still on the board that they go RB again.

Depends how he is looking weight wise. I'm not sure they're going to have the patience to let him start getting into NFL shape when week 1 roles around like he did this year. He would have had 1300+ maybe more if he came into the regular season in better shape. If he really commits himself this offseason he'll be a good back because he has power and vision but I wouldn't put it past the Titans to nab a guy like Stewart if the value is there and White hasn't shown more commitment.

3 years in a row of 1st day RB's is not ideal but it isn't a huge deal when it's clear the Titans are a running team and good RB depth is vital. Plus it isn't so unusual to see a team potentially look elsewhere at a position a 2nd rounder occupies after 2 years.

Geo
01-09-2008, 05:00 AM
If I'm Jonathan Stewart, I think that I am seriously considering not declaring for the 08 Draft and instead staying for my senior year at Oregon.

I know that sounds strange coming from me, given that I have long advocated and still advocate for runningbacks to come out because of the shelf-life of the position, but I've been giving this some thought ... especially in light of junior Clemson back James Davis adding his name to the 2008 Draft. Look at the many talented backs entering this year's Draft, meanwhile there looks to be only a small handful of potential landing spots in the Top 20/first round, and the depth at runningbacks means some teams might wait a round or two. There's supply likely exceeding demand.

Granted, potentially falling to the bottom third of the first round and landing to a playoff team (like Laurence Marorney and Joseph Addai did in 2006) could be good from a success standpoint. But given the position, I think obtaining the best rookie contract possible is probably the best course of action, and for Stewart, millions could potentially be gained by waiting another year. He would make a strong case for #1 back off the board in the 09 Draft, with main competition being juniors Beanie Wells and CJ Spiller needing to declare, and there very well could be more teams in the Top 10 or 15 looking to draft a back then than the one or two this year.

Sportsfan486
01-09-2008, 09:15 AM
He would make a strong case for #1 back off the board in the 09 Draft, with main competition being juniors Beanie Wells and CJ Spiller needing to declare, and there very well could be more teams in the Top 10 or 15 looking to draft a back then than the one or two this year.

I think next year could end up being about as deep at RB and Wells could end up grading out higher than Stewart.

Next year we could be looking at Wells, Felix Jones, P.J. Hill*, C.J. Spiller* and Steve Slaton as first round possibilites. Plus there is always the shot of a rising star having a monster year and declaring; my darkhorse there would be Keiland Williams of LSU.

I believe that if Stewart runs even a 4.4 something at the combine this year he'll be gone top 15. I don't see him having better luck next year.

*I doubt either of these two will be in the first round mix but it could happen with good production + combine.

duckseason
01-11-2008, 02:44 PM
I really didn't want to believe it, but I think he made the right decision. I think he'll have quite a few teams drooling over him at the combine, and will likely be picked in the top half of the first. When it's all said and done, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were the 1st RB selected. Don't necessarily expect that, but I think it's a stronger possibility than most people think right now. I just hope he goes to a team that I don't mind rooting for.

Geo
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Who's going to take him in the top half of the first round, seriously? His best chance is the Detroit Lions at 15th overall. No one in the Top 10 will take him, McFadden is already going to fall out of the Top 5 imo because no one will spend that much money on him (runningback plus his character).

Shanahan is a sorry GM, but even he isn't stupid enough with the 12th overall pick to ignore the defense and his offensive line. Meanwhile he can sign a practice squad guy to run in his offense, and already has Selvin Young and Andre Hall. (I'm not going to even mention Mike Bell, njx, the guy sucks and isn't close to anything special. Hopefully you realized that after overreacting last season.)

Chicago at 14th overall? Angelo needs to improve the offensive line even more than Shanahan, plus he could improve the defense that fell off a bit in 07. Nevermind he's not an idiot and realizes he could easily wait for a talented back in the 2nd round or the 3rd round, especially when he's dealing with the wonderful experience of spending a first round pick on runningback Cedric Benson.

Detroit at 15th is Stewart's best chance, given that Kevin Jones is injured (again) and on the last year of his rookie contract. Both TJ Duckett and Tatum Bell are free agents after 07, Brian Calhoun ... hasn't done anything. Probem for Stewart though is he'll be fighting Rashard Mendenhall tooth and nail for this spot, and Millen would likely favor the Big Ten guy from the Midwest who might time a smidge better. Plus, if he is drafted by the Lions, Stewart's agent will have to fight the front office to get him a 5-year deal instead of a 6-year deal the Lions will want.

After that, Arizona (#16) and Houston (#18) might be interested but could just as easily wait after the first round. Both need to improve their defenses much moreso.

Dallas at #22? Seattle at #23 (barring them winning the NFC crown)? Pittsburgh at #24?

duckseason
01-11-2008, 03:21 PM
Who's going to take him in the top half of the first round, seriously? His best chance is the Detroit Lions at 15th overall. No one in the Top 10 will take him, McFadden is already going to fall out of the Top 5 imo because no one will spend that much money on him (runningback plus his character).

Shanahan is a sorry GM, but even he isn't stupid enough with the 12th overall pick to ignore the defense and his offensive line. Meanwhile he can sign a practice squad guy to run in his offense, and already has Selvin Young and Andre Hall. (I'm not going to even mention Mike Bell, njx, the guy sucks and isn't close to anything special. Hopefully you realized that after overreacting last season.)

Chicago at 14th overall? Angelo needs to improve the offensive line even more than Shanahan, plus he could improve the defense that fell off a bit in 07. Nevermind he's not an idiot and realizes he could easily wait for a talented back in the 2nd round or the 3rd round, especially when he's dealing with the wonderful experience of spending a first round pick on runningback Cedric Benson.

Detroit at 15th is Stewart's best chance, given that Kevin Jones is injured (again) and on the last year of his rookie contract. Both TJ Duckett and Tatum Bell are free agents after 07, Brian Calhoun ... hasn't done anything. Probem for Stewart though is he'll be fighting Rashard Mendenhall tooth and nail for this spot, and Millen would likely favor the Big Ten guy from the Midwest who might time a smidge better. Plus, if he is drafted by the Lions, Stewart's agent will have to fight the front office to get him a 5-year deal instead of a 6-year deal the Lions will want.

After that, Arizona (#16) and Houston (#18) might be interested but could just as easily wait after the first round. Both need to improve their defenses much moreso.

Dallas at #22? Seattle at #23 (barring them winning the NFC crown)? Pittsburgh at #24?
I'm not saying I think any top 10 team should pick him (or any RB), but I can definitely see somebody falling in love with him at the combine. A team like the Jets or Bengals wouldn't surprise me at all. Though, like I said, I agree that both those teams should be looking defense. Who's to say that the Raiders won't take him? You've also got to remember that just because a team needs say, a LT more than anything else- that doesn't mean that one will fall into their laps. Perhaps some of these teams that need a corner or whatever don't really have an option they like where they're picking. Meanwhile, they may also need a boost to their running game, and Stewart grades out very high on their board. So they go RB and address other needs later. But like I said, Stewart's 40 time will be the difference here between top 15 and bottom of the 1st.

Geo
01-11-2008, 03:31 PM
My main thinking is: it's not that he won't be competing against Beanie Wells and CJ Spiller like he's competing against Darren McFadden and Rashard Mendenhall this year. Rather, I think a lot of teams who will/would be interested in Stewart this year could very likely opt to wait a take a slightly less-talented runningback later, given the great depth of this class. Whereas next year, he wouldn't have to deal with that, his value wouldn't be reduced by a factor beyond his control.

I like the guy a lot too, I think he's an exceptional runningback prospect and very well deserving of a mid-1st round pick in theory. Whoever gets him is getting a great player. If it costs him a good deal of money by dropping in the first round, well, at least he'll sign with a very good (playoff) team.

duckseason
01-11-2008, 03:48 PM
My main thinking is: it's not that he won't be competing against Beanie Wells and CJ Spiller like he's competing against Darren McFadden and Rashard Mendenhall this year. Rather, I think a lot of teams who will/would be interested in Stewart this year could very likely opt to wait a take a slightly less-talented runningback later, given the great depth of this class. Whereas next year, he wouldn't have to deal with that, his value wouldn't be reduced by a factor beyond his control.

I like the guy a lot too, I think he's an exceptional runningback prospect and very well deserving of a mid-1st round pick in theory. Whoever gets him is getting a great player. If it costs him a good deal of money by dropping in the first round, well, at least he'll sign with a very good (playoff) team.

Yeah I hear you, but in reality, next year's competition at the position has yet to be determined. Guys rise to the top pretty quickly in college football. If you're ready, you leave. Worrying about what everybody else is doing isn't what you should base your decision on. There will be more Rashard Mendenhall's to come. (though I do agree that this is a great class and next year's likely won't be as good- but that's just an opinion right now) And what about the risk of his stock dropping? What if his injury troubles continue and he misses significant time? I think that's the kind of thing to be worrying about. You get graded as a 1st round RB, you leave.

I think the risks associated with staying another year outweigh the assumption that you have nowhere to go but up. The draft is a crapshoot for all parties involved. I mean, as far as his money is concerned, the biggest factor will likely be which team selects him. If he falls into a great situation, he'll make more money in the long run. His rookie contract isn't as important as contract #2. Some of the richest guys in the league were picked long after the 1st round. Since he can't see into the future, there's no reason for him to stay if he believes he's ready for the NFL and grades out as a top prospect. It was the right move, though I really wish he'd stay. Man I can't wait to see how he does in Indy.

D-Unit
01-11-2008, 03:58 PM
The way Stewart plays, he won't have a long NFL career unless he plays in a committee.

duckseason
01-11-2008, 04:08 PM
The way Stewart plays, he won't have a long NFL career unless he plays in a committee.

I dunno, he kinda changed his game up over the past few years to help avoid injuries a bit. When you watched him as a freshman and sophomore, all he wanted to do was run people over. This year, he began using his vision and agility a bit more to avoid unnecessary contact. But it's true that he had lingering injury issues during all three of his seasons at Oregon. I just think he'll need to step up his ferocity a bit though before I say he's any more injury prone than half the league's starters.

draftguru151
01-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Yea I don't think it's too much of an issue, he's done a good job avoiding hits this season, and while he does run people over, he avoids them too. He does a good job of protecting himself.

art vandelay
01-13-2008, 11:17 AM
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1060/stewartfq6.jpg

Patriots16-0
01-13-2008, 11:20 AM
I think the Patriots can trade down to get him.