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diabsoule
10-03-2007, 03:16 AM
Maybe not as detailed as I would like because of the amount of school work I had to do this weekend but it's what I could do.

Deep Outs

Hey, hey, ho, ho, Norv Turner's go to go: I thought the decision to hire Norv Turner was one of the worst moves the San Diego Chargers could have made and I stand by that. They were embarrassed by the Kansas City Chiefs. Norv Turner has a history of being a terrible coach and I do not know why A.J. Smith thought any different when he hired him in that capacity. I do not expect Turner to last through the season and I see Ron Rivera stepping up to take the reigns. I also see A.J. Smith being fired at the end of the season. All Smith and the Chargers front office did was take a team primed for the Super Bowl and flush them down the toilet. They should be embarrassed.

”Say it ain't so, Joe”: The Chicago Bears are 1-3. Surprised? I am. I have egg on my face after predicting them to go to the Super Bowl and face the New England Patriots. After doing what I considered the right move, Lovie Smith benched Rex Grossman for Brian Griese. Unlike I predicated, Griese came out and did his best Rex Grossmen impersonation. With defensive starters hurting and their offense looking stagnant, the Bears are in trouble. They have a tough schedule yet to come and at this rate I do not expect them to make the playoffs. First priority for the Bears is a QB who actually has a pocket presence and can make the correct pass.

The Pride of Kiln: Favre passed the touchdown record this weekend. I'm sure everyone expected him to do but it was another thing to actually watch him do it. Not only did the Packers win but they did so in fairly convincing fashion against the Vikings. The Packers offense, even without a running game, looks good, and their defense looks better. They will win the NFC North this year.

Osi Umenyiora is a better and more productive... Ah hell, you know the rest: I don't know if it comes down to the fact that the Panthers look like the kitty cats or that the Giants are trying to live up to their name but Umenyiora put on a clinic Sunday night. He has six more sacks than Julius Peppers, which although Osi's six sacks came against Philly in one game, Peppers has failed to register a sack all year.

Quick Hit

Detroit Lions? 3-1?: Probably the most surprising 3-1 team in the league. Rod Marinelli is building a contender in the Motor City. Although they need quite a bit of work on defense and could use an upgrade on offense, this team is heading in the right direction. Maybe Matt Millen might know what he is doing after all? Probably not, it was just a thought.

St. Louis Rams? 0-4?: The greatest show on turf is at the bottom of the league? Yes, and they looked terrible getting there. Marc Bulger looks like hot trash. You know you're in trouble when the quarterback you just signed to a significant extension is benched for Gus Ferrotte. At least the Saints won their bye week, which was favored by 7.

The upset that should have been noticed: The Arizona Cardinals came out ready to play against the Pittsburgh Steelers and really brought it to them. If I was a smarter man that I consider myself to be I would have called that game. Ken Whisenhunt and Russ Grimm were both gunning for the head position in Pittsburgh and exacted revenge on the organization by beating them in the desert. While doing so Darnell Dockett has emerged as a big time player. And what does John Madden say? “Big players make big plays in big games which equal big wins.” Dockett is proving to be a big player. Speaking of Arizona, Matt Leinart looks like he'd rather be partying with Reggie Bush than studying game film and concentrating on the opponent. He is letting himself get outplayed by the ageless wonder, Kurt Warner. Whether or not that has to do with Leinart's press clippings has yet to be seen.

Browns/Ravens: Either Derek Anderson looks that good or Baltimore looks that bad. I think it's a bit of both. Derek Anderson seemed his usual self but Baltimore is just old. I thought they would make a run in the AFC but it does not seem like it. Cleveland's line is offensive line is playing like it should and as I expected it to be. I still think Brady Quinn is the future of the Browns and don't think they made the wrong decision in drafting him. The Ravens, however, seem like they have landed. I just don't see the Ravens of old in this team, although they have most of the same players.

Dwayne Bowe is right on the mark: I did not give him much credit coming out of college mainly due to his performance at LSU, however, he is turning into the receiver the Chiefs need. He has had two monster games in a row and is really helping out the Chiefs offense. Not to say that the Chiefs O doesn't need all the help it can get but Bowe is trying to take some of the pressure off of it.

Fourth and one:

Dallas Cowboys. Super Bowl bound: I'm calling it now. Although I was wrong when I thought the Bears would make it back to the Super Bowl, I had forgot about the Super Bowl hangover which the Bears are clearly suffering from. The Cowboys are ahead of the class in the NFC and should meet the Patriots in the Super Bowl barring any significant injuries.

Mangenius making a Man-ignoramus move?: By keeping Chad Pennington as the starting QB, Eric Mangini is stunting the growth of QB Kellen Clemens, who is the future of the Jets. The Jets will not be making the playoffs this year, no matter how much they would like to so they might as well as give Clemens the job so he can learn sooner than later. It seems like the obvious decision. Go ahead, Eric, you know you want to. Just do it.

The flight of the Seahawks: I consider the Seahawks the best 3-1 team in football right now. They lost a close one in Arizona in Week 2 to division rival Arizona. There is a strong case to say that this team should be 4-0. They are playing some very tough football right now and everyone is playing well. I expect them to the only team in the NFC that truly battles the Cowboys for the chance to play in the Super Bowl this year.

Goal Line Situation: The injuries this year keep piling up. Deuce McAllister, Cadillac Williams, Luke Petitgout, Marvin Harrison, Travis Henry, Hines Ward, etc... I have even heard rumors that Jake Delhomme's career might be over from his injury. Is it just me or has there been a ton of important injuries this year than there has been in the past? Cincinnati is down to just 2 linebackers. That is the first time I have ever heard of that happening. Never thought I would hear of a team running a 5-2 on regular downs. Maybe FA Patrick Sirmon is in their future? These injuries are getting ridiculous and will affect a ton of franchises futures for this year.

Here's a team put together by Len Pasquarelli from 22 of the 149 players on the IR right now.

Offense

WR -- Brian Finneran, Atlanta
WR -- Michael Jennings, N.Y. Giants
LT -- Orlando Pace, St. Louis
LG -- Ben Hamilton, Denver
C -- Steve McKinney, Houston
RG -- Jason Whittle, Buffalo
RT -- Jon Jansen, Washington
TE -- Mark Campbell, New Orleans
QB -- D.J. Shockley, Atlanta
FB -- Mike Alstott, Tampa Bay
RB -- Deuce McAllister, New Orleans

Defense

LE -- Ebenezer Ekuban, Denver
LT -- Jason Ferguson, Dallas
RT -- Anthony McFarland, Indianapolis
RE -- Chike Okeafor, Arizona
SLB -- Rob Morris, Indianapolis
MLB -- Paul Posluszny, Buffalo
WLB -- Matt Stewart, Cleveland
CB -- Justin Miller, N.Y. Jets
CB -- Chad Scott, New England
FS -- Mike Brown, Chicago
SS -- Yeremiah Bell, Miami

The Unseen
10-03-2007, 05:52 AM
The flight of the Seahawks: I consider the Seahawks the best 3-1 team in football right now. They lost a close one in their opening game and have played everyone hard since then. I expect them to the only team in the NFC that truly battles the Cowboys for the chance to play in the Super Bowl this year.

Didn't they win their opening game against Tampa Bay? I thought they lost to the Cardinals.

Caddy
10-03-2007, 07:45 AM
Didn't they win their opening game against Tampa Bay? I thought they lost to the Cardinals.

Yeah they beat the Buc's 20-6.

T-RICH49
10-03-2007, 07:54 AM
Bowe at some point is going to help get the 8-9 guys out of the box to stop LJ which will open things up for him

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 08:07 AM
Jets really do need to put in Clemens. This week the Jets don't even scare me one bit against the G-Men. Number one their O-line is struggling bad. Number two they have no pass rush. But the third reason is Pennington. Our biggest problem is still coverage in the secondary. With Pennington at QB the Jets have no threat of a deep pass to keep our defense honest. It's almost like the Jets are only playing with half a field. The Jets offense is all YAC. Pennington hopes his WRs do something when he gets them the ball short to intermediate. There is absolutely zero threat of him throwing the ball deep, because he just can't do it. Cotchery is banged up and Pennington is going to continue getting him killed throwing those ducks leading him into defenders. The Jets are a classic example of easy schedule last year and overachieving year one under a new coach.

JK17
10-03-2007, 08:36 AM
Like in Shiv's writeup I still gotta disagree about AJ Smith. He ****** up royally with Turner, but every GM has made some mistakes. Like you said they were primed for a Super Bowl Run, and a major reason for that was because of the success AJ had in building that team. Turner and Cotrell are huge mistakes, but with all AJ has done to build the team, this mistake, as huge as it was, deserves a second chance. Granted, if he blows that....

ks_perfection
10-03-2007, 08:56 AM
Like in Shiv's writeup I still gotta disagree about AJ Smith. He ****** up royally with Turner, but every GM has made some mistakes. Like you said they were primed for a Super Bowl Run, and a major reason for that was because of the success AJ had in building that team. Turner and Cotrell are huge mistakes, but with all AJ has done to build the team, this mistake, as huge as it was, deserves a second chance. Granted, if he blows that....

Just fire Turner and bring back Martyball.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 08:56 AM
Like in Shiv's writeup I still gotta disagree about AJ Smith. He ****** up royally with Turner, but every GM has made some mistakes. Like you said they were primed for a Super Bowl Run, and a major reason for that was because of the success AJ had in building that team. Turner and Cotrell are huge mistakes, but with all AJ has done to build the team, this mistake, as huge as it was, deserves a second chance. Granted, if he blows that....

The problem I have with AJ is that it seems like he put his personal feelings towards someone ahead of the football team. He took a personal vendetta with Marty and because of that hurt his football team. Same with the hiring of his buddy Cotrell. Cotrell has been horrible everywhere. Only got the job because of him being buddies with AJ.

JK17
10-03-2007, 09:12 AM
The problem I have with AJ is that it seems like he put his personal feelings towards someone ahead of the football team. He took a personal vendetta with Marty and because of that hurt his football team. Same with the hiring of his buddy Cotrell. Cotrell has been horrible everywhere. Only got the job because of him being buddies with AJ.

Yeah, ideally I'd have liked them to get along. And in hindsight Cotrell was an asbolutely terrible decision. But I just don't believe Marty was doing anything different in the situation. He was just as stubborn, and everything had to be his way also. That's why you can't have too dictator types like that, they're going to cause huge dilemmas for the team. And the Cotrell hiring, terrible, but Marty wanted to bring in his brother Kurt to coach the defense, so although he probably wouldn't have been as terrible as Cotrell is, its not like he wouldn't have done people favors if he had been the one who stayed.

Average OT LB
10-03-2007, 09:25 AM
Yeah, ideally I'd have liked them to get along. And in hindsight Cotrell was an asbolutely terrible decision. But I just don't believe Marty was doing anything different in the situation. He was just as stubborn, and everything had to be his way also. That's why you can't have too dictator types like that, they're going to cause huge dilemmas for the team. And the Cotrell hiring, terrible, but Marty wanted to bring in his brother Kurt to coach the defense, so although he probably wouldn't have been as terrible as Cotrell is, its not like he wouldn't have done people favors if he had been the one who stayed.

Yeah good call on Kurt..

Marty wasn't fired initially.. the franchise decided to keep him.. Its only until after marty let the entire coaching staff go that we decided to stop the bleeding.. (lofton was lookin to leave as well) .. this gave AJ the reason he wanted to justify firing marty..

So was that putting his personal feelings ahead of the team? i dont think so..

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 09:31 AM
Yeah good call on Kurt..

Marty wasn't fired initially.. the franchise decided to keep him.. Its only until after marty let the entire coaching staff go that we decided to stop the bleeding.. (lofton was lookin to leave as well) .. this gave AJ the reason he wanted to justify firing marty..

So was that putting his personal feelings ahead of the team? i dont think so..

Marty let the entire coaching staff go? He can't prevent his coordinators from accepting head coaching jobs.

JK17
10-03-2007, 09:35 AM
Marty let the entire coaching staff go? He can't prevent his coordinators from accepting head coaching jobs.

I think he just meant that after the coordinators were gone, there was a lot less of a reason to keep Marty...I mean considering Cameron called the plays and Wade ran the defense....what have been our 2 biggest problems this year? Play calling and defense...Marty would have gotten the team more motivated, but he could have gone, and we could have found another motivator...the coordinators killed us.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 09:40 AM
I think he just meant that after the coordinators were gone, there was a lot less of a reason to keep Marty...I mean considering Cameron called the plays and Wade ran the defense....what have been our 2 biggest problems this year? Play calling and defense...Marty would have gotten the team more motivated, but he could have gone, and we could have found another motivator...the coordinators killed us.

From what I have seen of the Chargers motivation looks like the biggest problem. That team quit in the second half the other day when they had the lead.

yodabear
10-03-2007, 09:40 AM
St. Louis Rams? 0-4?: The greatest show on turf is at the bottom of the league? Yes, and they looked terrible getting there. Marc Bulger looks like hot trash. You know you're in trouble when the quarterback you just signed to a significant extension is benched for Gus Ferrotte. At least the Saints won their bye week, which was favored by 7.

Nice write up as always. And we are now looking more like the piles of **** anwhere. Bulger is a fraud, he was clearly playing out of his ass for a contract extension, Jackson is only as good as his left tackle, Holt and Bruce are aging, McMichael and Bennett are nowhere to be found maybe its cuz whenever we throw to one of them it gets picked due to the fraud we have at QB. Don't even get me started on the defense. Dante Hall score our lone TD in a 35-7 loss, but he had the most costly of fumbles in a 17-16 loss. Bust. Okay, lets get on that defense. Little is old, where the hell is Carriker, Glover belongs in a junk yard, I don't even know or care who our 4th lineman is because he sucks too, I mean did u see that Romo play:the only way thats a first down is if they are playing the Rams. Pisa is hurt as he always is, Witherspoon is no where to be found, and who the **** is Brian Chillar. Tye Hill is a first-round bust, Corey Chavous should join Glover at the garbage dump, Otogwe actually has our only pick: but he sucks, and I don't even know who our 2nd CB is, but he obviously sucks, Patrick Crayton lit him up. We get Fakhir Brown back, there is our Bob Sanders. Sarcasm everyone, its a great thing, u all know that is horse **** and Fakhir Brown sucks. Our offensive line couldn't block me. Our offensive coordinator couldn't coordinate a pee-wee team. Oh yeah, we play good in the first half to three quarters of every game and then we fall apart, and that pisses me off. I like Linehan and I like Haslett, so even if we go 0-16, which very well could happen with the way we are playing, I would like to see them stick around. But for the love of God, get rid of Greg Olsen, I think thats his name. His main project in Detroit was Joey Harington: how did that work out for him. I think I am done. Good day.

JK17
10-03-2007, 09:42 AM
From what I have seen of the Chargers motivation looks like the biggest problem. That team quit in the second half with the other day when they had the lead.

I'd agree motivation is a big issue, but you can have a motivator anywhere, there's plenty of coaches who can motivate. The problem was not getting one. Also, its hard to tell if they gave up or if the offense/defense just collapsed. A lot of it can be chalked up to playcalling too. I mean they were playing good, protecting the lead...then we go tight man on 3rd and 19 and get beat. We drive down the field to come back, get it to the five yard line, and we pass four times in a row. The motivation isn't what it used to be, but I think there were more pressing issues.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Jets really do need to put in Clemens. This week the Jets don't even scare me one bit against the G-Men. Number one their O-line is struggling bad. Number two they have no pass rush. But the third reason is Pennington. Our biggest problem is still coverage in the secondary. With Pennington at QB the Jets have no threat of a deep pass to keep our defense honest. It's almost like the Jets are only playing with half a field. The Jets offense is all YAC. Pennington hopes his WRs do something when he gets them the ball short to intermediate. There is absolutely zero threat of him throwing the ball deep, because he just can't do it. Cotchery is banged up and Pennington is going to continue getting him killed throwing those ducks leading him into defenders. The Jets are a classic example of easy schedule last year and overachieving year one under a new coach.

Well, luckily, while we have Pennington, you have Eli who is statistically worse in every single category, despite having a running game.

The Jets problem is defense. Our offense has trouble getting into any rhythm because our defense is always on the field. Look at Cinci with Carson, they're doing their best when they have the ball, and their D is getting turnovers and short fields. We also never get any three and outs, because the other team gets like 8 yards on their first carry, and then has forever to pass on second and third down.

Any offense in the league is going to struggle when "great field position" for them means they get to start at their own 30... nevermind the fact that we can't run the ball, either.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Well, luckily, while we have Pennington, you have Eli who is statistically worse in every single category, despite having a running game.

David Carr similarily was statistically better than a bunch of QBs last year. Its easy to be great statistically when you don't, or in this case can't, throw the ball downfield.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:11 AM
David Carr similarily was statistically better than a bunch of QBs last year. Its easy to be great statistically when you don't, or in this case can't, throw the ball downfield.

Yeah, my original post was useless because I was pissed off, so I added on to it.

Honestly, Pennington has gotten the shaft all year, and people don't look at the whole situation and actually think about it. Even Jets fans, who should be watching the games and seeing what he is doing for this team, don't support him. It's so stupid.

RyanLeaf#1
10-03-2007, 10:12 AM
Well, luckily, while we have Pennington, you have Eli who is statistically worse in every single category, despite having a running game.

The Jets problem is defense. Our offense has trouble getting into any rhythm because our defense is always on the field. Look at Cinci with Carson, they're doing their best when they have the ball, and their D is getting turnovers and short fields. We also never get any three and outs, because the other team gets like 8 yards on their first carry, and then has forever to pass on second and third down.

Any offense in the league is going to struggle when "great field position" for them means they get to start at their own 30... nevermind the fact that we can't run the ball, either.

If your suggesting that Chad Pennington is better then Eli Manning please send me some of the $hit your smoking.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Any offense in the league is going to struggle when "great field position" for them means they get to start at their own 30... nevermind the fact that we can't run the ball, either.

I think one of the reasons you can't run the ball either is because no one is respecting what some would consider a deep passing game. Safeties can cheat up to the line of scrimmage because they have no fear of Chad being able to get the ball deep over their heads.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:27 AM
If your suggesting that Chad Pennington is better then Eli Manning please send me some of the $hit your smoking.

Right now, Chad Pennington is doing better in the situation he is in than Eli would. Our line can't protect anything, so we can't go deep. Clemens has been sacked every 9.5 pass attempts, while Chad has been sacked every 13.6. Meanwhile, Bulger has been sacked every 12 drop backs. Everyone is talking about how horrible the Rams O-line is, but, really, ours is allowing just as many sacks at the same pace (meanwhile Eli is being sacked per 26 pass attempts).

Right now on the season, Jones is averaging 3.4 YPC, and Washington is averaging 3.8. We aren't a threat to run the ball *at all*. Meanwhile, Giants have Ward running at 4.8, and Jacobs was running at 4.3... it's safe to say that the Giants running game is far superior to the Jets.

Yet, despite this, Chad is averaging more yards per attempt. Chad is averaging about one less turnover per game. Chad is averaging about exactly the same amount of TD's per game (higher if you count his run, lower if you don't). I'm not saying that Chad is better than Eli, and I believe that when Eli reaches his peak he'll be better than Chad, but no one actually takes the time to think before they jump to any accusations. That's why football fans these days suck. Suck long and hard.

It's easy to jump into any thread and say "What are you smoking?" with absolutely nothing to back yourself up. Believe me, I've done it. But, it's also completely pointless, and is simply a waste of everyone's time.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:29 AM
I think one of the reasons you can't run the ball either is because no one is respecting what some would consider a deep passing game. Safeties can cheat up to the line of scrimmage because they have no fear of Chad being able to get the ball deep over their heads.

Yet with Kellen in, we averaged... WHAT, COULD IT BE?! The fewest YPC we have all year?!? What the hell is up with that?!

RyanLeaf#1
10-03-2007, 10:38 AM
.

I'm not saying that Chad is better than Eli, and I believe that when Eli reaches his peak he'll be better than Chad, but no one actually takes the time to think before they jump to any accusations. That's why football fans these days suck. Suck long and hard.

It's easy to jump into any thread and say "What are you smoking?" with absolutely nothing to back yourself up. Believe me, I've done it. But, it's also completely pointless, and is simply a waste of everyone's time.

The bolded letters is all I needed to see. I have nothing else to say.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:40 AM
The bolded letters is all I needed to see. I have nothing else to say.

So, essentially, you have nothing at all to say. Great to hear from you, and I hope this nothingness continues on, for quite some time.

RyanLeaf#1
10-03-2007, 10:43 AM
So, essentially, you have nothing at all to say. Great to hear from you, and I hope this nothingness continues on, for quite some time.

Nothing at all to say to you. I thought you were implying earlier that Chad Pennington is a better quarterback then Eli Manning. If that was the case you could have taken your Cannedbrain and nothingness that you bring to the table here and leave. But since you stated that you werent saying Chad is better then Eli. Then like I said I have nothing to say to you.

AlexDown
10-03-2007, 10:44 AM
People have been calling Pennington to be benched since the start of the season, but as soon as he throws his first INT of the season people call for his head. He has had a good start to this year and is not the reason why the Jets are 1-3. The only reason I see for people to call for the swap is that people don't believe Pennington can ever get the Jets to a Superbowl. But in my opinion, that coulden't be farther from the truth.

Heck, I would even go as far as saying that if the Bears had Pennington last year or even this year with a healthy team, they woulden't be in the situation they are in now. Again, that is just personal opinion, not to be taken as fact.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Nothing at all to say to you. I thought you were implying earlier that Chad Pennington is a better quarterback then Eli Manning. If that was the case you could have taken your Cannedbrain and nothingness that you bring to the table here and leave. But since you stated that you werent saying Chad is better then Eli. Then like I said I have nothing to say to you.

Provide some evidence that Eli is better than Chad. I'm intrigued by the fact you spout out all of this stuff like it's a fact, but I'd like to see what you base it on.

I'm almost quite sure you have no idea what you're talking about, and simply basing your opinion on both quarterbacks on what random people have said. But, then again, you don't actually have to watch football to be a football fan (hell, a football analyst even), these days.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 10:58 AM
Im glad AJ Smith is getting killed publicly. The man has the ego of Superman. He thinks he's God's gift to GM'ing. How does that humblepie taste AJ? I felt he disrespected Schottenheimer (whom Ive always felt was a great coach) and now he's realizing how valuable Marty was to the team.

The crowd chanting Marty's name had to get him fuming. Eat it AJ. Eat it.

Having that said, no way you fire him. He's still one of the best drafting GMs in the league. He let his ego get to him, but he'll fix this.

Jughead10
10-03-2007, 11:04 AM
Provide some evidence that Eli is better than Chad. I'm intrigued by the fact you spout out all of this stuff like it's a fact, but I'd like to see what you base it on.

I'm almost quite sure you have no idea what you're talking about, and simply basing your opinion on both quarterbacks on what random people have said. But, then again, you don't actually have to watch football to be a football fan (hell, a football analyst even), these days.

The stats don't tell the whole story in the run game. Giants consistently run against nickel defenses. Tiki in previous year tore them up. Partly because you have to respect the pass game. The Jets passing game doesn't get nearly the same respect. With a better all around offense and a better defense, yes, I think the Jets could win with Chad. But at this point, I don't think he gives you the best chance to win anymore. You have to take a chance to be great. There is no point keeping Clemens on the bench because with Chad in the lineup, it looks like the Jets are destined to be a 6-10 team at best. You might be the same with Clemens, or you could even be worse, but he has to start playing to get ahead of the learning curve for the future.

JK17
10-03-2007, 11:05 AM
Im glad AJ Smith is getting killed publicly. The man has the ego of Superman. He thinks he's God's gift to GM'ing. How does that humblepie taste AJ? I felt he disrespected Schottenheimer (whom Ive always felt was a great coach) and now he's realizing how valuable Marty was to the team.

The crowd chanting Marty's name had to get him fuming. Eat it AJ. Eat it.

Having that said, no way you fire him. He's still one of the best drafting GMs in the league. He let his ego get to him, but he'll fix this.

I'd actually agree with that, almost completely. As much as I'll defend him as a GM, he's to GMing what Bellichek is to coaching...arrogant and cocky, but good at it.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 11:09 AM
I'd actually agree with that, almost completely. As much as I'll defend him as a GM, he's to GMing what Bellichek is to coaching...arrogant and cocky, but good at it.

Yeah, at the end of the day, there aren't many GMs out there better than him. This was one instance where he left his ego get to him.

Basically by hiring Turner, he wanted to undermine Marty. By showing the world that his team is so good, that he can take an underachieving HC and have him run the same system that was run with Marty at the healm, and win a SB with it.

It backfired badly on him. This reminds me of what Jerry Jones tried to do to Jim Johnson in the 90s, by hiring a complete douche and trying to show the world that he could win with that at the healm.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 11:11 AM
The stats don't tell the whole story in the run game. Giants consistently run against nickel defenses. Tiki in previous year tore them up. Partly because you have to respect the pass game. The Jets passing game doesn't get nearly the same respect. With a better all around offense and a better defense, yes, I think the Jets could win with Chad. But at this point, I don't think he gives you the best chance to win anymore. You have to take a chance to be great. There is no point keeping Clemens on the bench because with Chad in the lineup, it looks like the Jets are destined to be a 6-10 team at best. You might be the same with Clemens, or you could even be worse, but he has to start playing to get ahead of the learning curve for the future.

See, the only real argument I can accept for benching Chad for Clemens is the belief that it will help Clemens progress in his development (which may or may not be true, it hasn't bee really proven that it's better for a QB to sit for 2-3 years or start right away). I don't buy Clemens giving us a better chance to win right now, though.

As for the running game, you'll see this week, it's our line. There are no holes whatsoever, regardless of the package the other team is in. We're having trouble with the other teams D-line, and we can't seem to get any push. The other team could probably take out their linebackers and replace them with WR's, and we'd still be lucky to average 4.5 YPC.

RyanLeaf#1
10-03-2007, 11:17 AM
Provide some evidence that Eli is better than Chad. I'm intrigued by the fact you spout out all of this stuff like it's a fact, but I'd like to see what you base it on.

I'm almost quite sure you have no idea what you're talking about, and simply basing your opinion on both quarterbacks on what random people have said. But, then again, you don't actually have to watch football to be a football fan (hell, a football analyst even), these days.

Actually I have the Direct TV Sunday Ticket and have watched all of the Giants games and all of the Jets games. Not because I like either team, but have wagered on the games that Eli and Chad were playing in. I dont base my opinion on what anyone says. I base it on what I see. But in watching the games that I have I do believe that Eli is better then Chad. The Jets just need to get over the fact that ultimately in the long run Kellen gives them the best chance to win. Right now if you want to have more than 5 wins this season go with Chad. Either way they are not going to make the playsoffs. With them not giving Kellen the starting job they are just delaying his progress. Kellen might make mistakes but guess what he will take that shot down field. All Pennington does is check down to 4 yard passes and thats why his completion % is so good. Eli takes shots down field hence why they have a better run game then the Jets. Who cares if Eli has 5 ints and Chad has 2. That doesnt mean anything. Eli is 2-2 and Chad is 1-3. Eli knows how to manage a game. Knows when to take shots and isnt afraid to do so. So good luck with Pennington this year.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 11:25 AM
Actually I have the Direct TV Sunday Ticket and have watched all of the Giants games and all of the Jets games. Not because I like either team, but have wagered on the games that Eli and Chad were playing in. I dont base my opinion on what anyone says. I base it on what I see. But in watching the games that I have I do believe that Eli is better then Chad. The Jets just need to get over the fact that ultimately in the long run Kellen gives them the best chance to win. Right now if you want to have more than 5 wins this season go with Chad. Either way they are not going to make the playsoffs. With them not giving Kellen the starting job they are just delaying his progress. Kellen might make mistakes but guess what he will take that shot down field. All Pennington does is check down to 4 yard passes and thats why his completion % is so good. Eli takes shots down field hence why they have a better run game then the Jets. Who cares if Eli has 5 ints and Chad has 2. That doesnt mean anything. Eli is 2-2 and Chad is 1-3. Eli knows how to manage a game. Knows when to take shots and isnt afraid to do so. So good luck with Pennington this year.

You literally managed to answer nothing. I never talked about completion percentage, I know why Chad's is higher (despite the fact that you would think that if *everyone* knows they're going to throw short, that would make it just as hard, if not harder, to complete a high percentage of passes). He still averages more yards per attempt, however, as well as a *much* higher QB rating. You call Eli a better game manager the second *after* you talk about who has more turnovers? Then you brought up wins, which don't really mean anything. Apparently Drew Brees and Carson Palmer are two of the worst QB's in the league... who knew?

But thanks for that well thought out, clear, and concise argument.

ccB
10-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Browns/Ravens: Either Derek Anderson looks that good or Baltimore looks that bad. I think it's a bit of both. Derek Anderson seemed his usual self but Baltimore is just old. I thought they would make a run in the AFC but it does not seem like it. Cleveland's line is offensive line is playing like it should and as I expected it to be. I still think Brady Quinn is the future of the Browns and don't think they made the wrong decision in drafting him. The Ravens, however, seem like they have landed. I just don't see the Ravens of old in this team, although they have most of the same players.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think our major problem is injuries. Losing Trevor Pryce has taken away all resemblance of the pass rush we once had. Also, hate him or love him, losing Samari Rolle has killed us. We are starting a suitable nickle as our 2nd CB and that leaves 3 players in Prude, Pittman, and Martin playing Nickel, which IMO none of the 3 should even be the dime back let alone the nickel. The loss of Ogden which at once didnt seem that big of a hit has now proven it was a huge hit with Marshall Yanda making some key screw ups starting in place of JO. All this on top of losing Adalius and the questionable play calling on offense leads to our dissapointing season.


The only real problem I had with what you said is, " I just don't see the Ravens of old in this team, although they have most of the same players."

Last year we had starting: Jonathan Ogden, Samari Rolle, Adalius Thomas, Trevor Pryce

This year starting: Marshall Yanda, Corey Ivy, Jarrett Johnson, Dwan edwards

SFbear
10-03-2007, 11:54 AM
”Say it ain't so, Joe”: The Chicago Bears are 1-3. Surprised? I am. I have egg on my face after predicting them to go to the Super Bowl and face the New England Patriots. After doing what I considered the right move, Lovie Smith benched Rex Grossman for Brian Griese. Unlike I predicated, Griese came out and did his best Rex Grossmen impersonation. With defensive starters hurting and their offense looking stagnant, the Bears are in trouble. They have a tough schedule yet to come and at this rate I do not expect them to make the playoffs. First priority for the Bears is a QB who actually has a pocket presence and can make the correct pass.


Actually the first priority at the end of the season is firing Ron Turner. I'm not sure which one of the Turner brothers has done a worse job this year. At least Norv was successful as an OC.

Geo
10-03-2007, 12:05 PM
Excellent and very astute mention of the Seahawks, diabsoule. If Alexander hadn't screwed up an audible, the team would be 4-0 right now. Imo, they are one of the teams to seriously challenge Dallas for the NFC crown. Do not overlook the Seahawks, they are a very good team.

diabsoule
10-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Browns/Ravens: Either Derek Anderson looks that good or Baltimore looks that bad. I think it's a bit of both. Derek Anderson seemed his usual self but Baltimore is just old. I thought they would make a run in the AFC but it does not seem like it. Cleveland's line is offensive line is playing like it should and as I expected it to be. I still think Brady Quinn is the future of the Browns and don't think they made the wrong decision in drafting him. The Ravens, however, seem like they have landed. I just don't see the Ravens of old in this team, although they have most of the same players.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think our major problem is injuries. Losing Trevor Pryce has taken away all resemblance of the pass rush we once had. Also, hate him or love him, losing Samari Rolle has killed us. We are starting a suitable nickle as our 2nd CB and that leaves 3 players in Prude, Pittman, and Martin playing Nickel, which IMO none of the 3 should even be the dime back let alone the nickel. The loss of Ogden which at once didnt seem that big of a hit has now proven it was a huge hit with Marshall Yanda making some key screw ups starting in place of JO. All this on top of losing Adalius and the questionable play calling on offense leads to our dissapointing season.


The only real problem I had with what you said is, " I just don't see the Ravens of old in this team, although they have most of the same players."

Last year we had starting: Jonathan Ogden, Samari Rolle, Adalius Thomas, Trevor Pryce

This year starting: Marshall Yanda, Corey Ivy, Jarrett Johnson, Dwan edwards

Thanks for mentioning that CCB. I knew Trevor Pryce was out but I had forgotten all of the losses suffered by the Ravens.

thule
10-03-2007, 03:06 PM
For the record Bulger was taken out of the Dallas game because Dallas was getting pressure and once the game was out of reach they put in Gus. Bulger is still a good QB but when 4 of your starting OLmen are out and the cowboys are having a hayday in your backfield, probably not a good idea to be out there.

LonghornsLegend
10-03-2007, 03:49 PM
Excellent and very astute mention of the Seahawks, diabsoule. If Alexander hadn't screwed up an audible, the team would be 4-0 right now. Imo, they are one of the teams to seriously challenge Dallas for the NFC crown. Do not overlook the Seahawks, they are a very good team.


I agree, im actually hoping the cowboys get the seahawks in the NFC championship game, or at least a rematch, definately dont want a ticket to the big game without going through seattle and seeing Romo get a fire lit under him to make up for last year

Number 10
10-03-2007, 04:02 PM
cannedtoast-

Do you really think Pennington is better than Eli?

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 04:11 PM
I agree, im actually hoping the cowboys get the seahawks in the NFC championship game, or at least a rematch, definately dont want a ticket to the big game without going through seattle and seeing Romo get a fire lit under him to make up for last year

I don't know if you'd want that honestly. Mike Holmgren is an excellent coach at making adjustments and coming in with a great gameplan.

Wade...not so much. I can definately see Holmgren outsmart him in a playoff chessmatch. Although I do feel that Dallas is the more talented team, that doesn't necessarily equate to victories every time.

Plus Seattle has had quite a bit of defensive success against Dallas the past 2 times theyve met.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 04:39 PM
cannedtoast-

Do you really think Pennington is better than Eli?

If I was going to play in the Superbowl tomorrow, I honestly can't say who I'd pick.

As a franchise QB I choose Manning no problem, but for that one big game, right now, I couldn't really say one way or the other and feel completely comfortable with who I chose.

LonghornsLegend
10-03-2007, 04:58 PM
I don't know if you'd want that honestly. Mike Holmgren is an excellent coach at making adjustments and coming in with a great gameplan.

Wade...not so much. I can definately see Holmgren outsmart him in a playoff chessmatch. Although I do feel that Dallas is the more talented team, that doesn't necessarily equate to victories every time.

Plus Seattle has had quite a bit of defensive success against Dallas the past 2 times theyve met.

they have had success vs us, which is why id want to go through them to get to the big game, if we dont beat Seattle then we really didnt need to be there in the first place, and I think we should have the home field advantage over them this time...Also take in the fact that Romo should/will have a chip on his shoulder vs them and I see him making it a point to have a career day vs them...It be no easy game at all, but if we cant beat Seattle at home then we didnt deserve to be going to the super bowl anyway, and id rather face them and beat them vs not see them and go in that way

yourfavestoner
10-03-2007, 05:01 PM
If I was going to play in the Superbowl tomorrow, I honestly can't say who I'd pick.

As a franchise QB I choose Manning no problem, but for that one big game, right now, I couldn't really say one way or the other and feel completely comfortable with who I chose.

Manning. Can you imagine Pennington trying to drive the ball through the Meadowlands in January? Or ANYWHERE where there's bad weather? It'd be a joke.

diabsoule
10-03-2007, 05:04 PM
Manning. Can you imagine Pennington trying to drive the ball through the Meadowlands in January? Or ANYWHERE where there's bad weather? It'd be a joke.

I'd go with Manning too. I think he's looked much improved this season than he has in the previous others and Pennington is starting to regress. Manning can only get better while I think all Pennington can do is get worse.

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 05:09 PM
I'd go with Manning too. I think he's looked much improved this season than he has in the previous others and Pennington is starting to regress. Manning can only get better while I think all Pennington can do is get worse.

Pennington is starting to regress based on what, last year? He looks better this year than last. Much better.

I don't understand what you're saying at all, either. Obviously down the road (a year or two) Manning is the better choice, but that was never part of the question. Unless you guys have randomly started a new debate in the middle of an old one?

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 05:21 PM
Manning. Can you imagine Pennington trying to drive the ball through the Meadowlands in January? Or ANYWHERE where there's bad weather? It'd be a joke.

Yay, more random statements with absolutely nothing to back them up.

I'm not even going to begin fabricating any kind of defense, because I'm tired of people just throwing stuff at the wall and waiting to see what will stick.

But here, look at his gamelog from last year (where I admit, he didn't play well to begin with) and tell me if there is any real discrepancy from his early games to his late games, due to "windy conditions".

http://www.nfl.com/players/chadpennington/gamelogs?id=PEN375096&season=2006

P-L
10-03-2007, 05:21 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson averaged 8.2 yards per carry in the first half of Sunday's game against the Chiefs. In the second half, he carried the ball SIX times. Are you kidding me? What the hell was Norv Turner thinking?

JK17
10-03-2007, 05:23 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson averaged 8.2 yards per carry in the first half of Sunday's game against the Chiefs. In the second half, he carried the ball SIX times. Are you kidding me? What the hell was Norv Turner thinking?

Sigh...what happened to him being an offensive guru? I mean, if there was anything he was supposed to be successful with, it was at least having some idea how to run an offense...

But we can't even get that...what are Cowher's thoughts on coaching these days?

CannedToast
10-03-2007, 05:24 PM
LaDainian Tomlinson averaged 8.2 yards per carry in the first half of Sunday's game against the Chiefs. In the second half, he carried the ball SIX times. Are you kidding me? What the hell was Norv Turner thinking?

Yeah, Turner is a major derfwad. I feel bad for LT and Gates, because I like them both, and they're both trying their hearts out, but they've just got nothing from a coaching standpoint.

yodabear
10-03-2007, 05:25 PM
Yeah, Turner is a major derfwad. I feel bad for LT and Gates, because I like them both, and they're both trying their hearts out, but they've just got nothing from a coaching standpoint.

Good word protege. Norv Turner couldn't teach a dude watching porn how to masterbate.

scottyboy
10-03-2007, 05:28 PM
great list diab. just 2 things, on the IR roster- lol at Michael Jennings at WR. pretty thin injury wise there to put Jennings on there.

also, pennington has the arm strength of a noodle

BrownsTown
10-03-2007, 05:28 PM
Yeah, Turner is a major derfwad. I feel bad for LT and Gates, because I like them both, and they're both trying their hearts out, but they've just got nothing from a coaching standpoint.

I found the word derfwad strangely funny.

Jughead10
10-04-2007, 07:31 AM
great list diab. just 2 things, on the IR roster- lol at Michael Jennings at WR. pretty thin injury wise there to put Jennings on there.

also, pennington has the arm strength of a noodle

Speaking of injuries, you know your team just has terrible luck when this happens:

"LB Chase Blackburn nearly had an eardrum ruptured after the Eagles game when a reporter bumped into him while he was cleaning his ear with a cotton swab. Blackburn lost partial hearing in the ear, which bled. It is believed his hearing will return."

Jughead10
10-04-2007, 07:49 AM
what an idiot. it CLEARLY says on the packaging that one should not insert the swab into one's ear canal.

Well, I think the reporter bumping into him knocked it into his ear canal.

bored of education
10-04-2007, 08:02 AM
Sigh...what happened to him being an offensive guru? I mean, if there was anything he was supposed to be successful with, it was at least having some idea how to run an offense...

But we can't even get that...what are Cowher's thoughts on coaching these days?

I have been thinking that as well. G-Men?Panthers?Chargers?

Jughead10
10-04-2007, 08:07 AM
I have been thinking that as well. G-Men?Panthers?Chargers?

He swears he isn't coming back next season. Although if the Panthers job opens up that might be too good to pass up for him.

Geo
10-04-2007, 11:04 AM
I suspect we'll see Coach Chin with the Washington Redskins after this season.

Shiver
10-04-2007, 12:28 PM
I suspect we'll see Coach Chin with the Washington Redskins after this season.


Nope, he'll take the Chargers to the Super Bowl.

Jughead10
10-04-2007, 12:32 PM
Nope, he'll take the Chargers to the Super Bowl.

I doubt that. Washington and more likely Carolina seem to make more sense for him. To me Cowher doesn't seem like the NY or So Cal type.

diabsoule
10-04-2007, 01:47 PM
There are two teams that I think he'd return to coach. The Carolina Panthers and the Cleveland Browns.

The Panthers are close to his home in North Carolina and if he took that job he would be in the state as his family. The reason he gave as to why he retired was because he wanted to spend more time with his wife and daughters but taking a job in the same state will give him that time.

The Cleveland Browns I'm sure will come calling and Cowher, I think, will consider the position just because of his ties to the Cleveland Browns. He was a former player there and received his first coaching job there. Going back to work for that organization would probably mean something to him.