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toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 07:23 AM
Some underclassmen not considered: James Lauranitis, Jonathan Stewart, Michael Oher.

As usual, order was on my own. Followed the records a bit more this time, but still adjusted to my own feelings. Thus, I recognize order will change.

Just trying to offer ideas. My ideas change week to week sometimes, as my perspectives on players are still getting sorted out. Moreover, at this early stage, sometimes there are multiple ideas, so I try a different one out.

Anyhow, just food for thought at the end of the day.

1. Miami Dolphins

The Dolphins chances probably took a hit when Trent Green took a hit. Cleo Lemon is interesting, but I think most don’t anticipate Cleo saving the day. Then, at some point, it’s going to be the John Beck show. I do like what Cam Cameron is doing down there, but the deck seems stacked, even in a weak division.

So what’s the call? A lot of scenarios were given consideration. OL here seems a bit of a reach. WR is unlikely, as is QB. TE obviously has no value here, and arguably, no value in round 1. LB doesn’t really have top 5 value, and any deal down would likely be in that range. DL was given some thought. DB lacks value in the top areas for now.

The look is to three things – trade, Calais Campbell, or Darren McFadden. I think Capers could fit Campbell in … but in the end, I back off of that. At the end of the day, I couldn’t find a trade partner that I liked, and the nod goes to Darren McFadden. This, though, would only happen if they could peddle off Ronnie Brown for a good deal, something I am not mocking in this draft. But that said, if they can get assets for Brown to help rebuild, and considering the lifespan of RB’s, the ability to get McFadden in there might be tempting. And no, I don’t believe this to be a situation where they could draft McFadden to go with Brown, as they are similar in some respects.

Miami Dolphins pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

2. St. Louis Rams

The Miami QB situation lets the Rams slide down a slot, but that said, little has changed. I still never envisioned this team being this bad, and am quite surprised. So, what’s the call? A lot of options exist. A trade was given brief consideration, but who? I don’t see the Bills selling out big time for Glenn Dorsey, and I don’t see anyone moving up this high for a QB. Thus, I stay put, and the pick stays the same. The nod goes to Calais Campbell. After further consideration, DT just isn’t as big a need as DE, so this time, the gap’s wider in my mind.

St. Louis Rams pick: DE Calais Campbell, the U

3. New Orleans Saints

Another team that I just never envisioned to be this bad. I didn’t think they were a great team, and wasn’t sold they were good (I didn’t pick them for the playoffs in the preseason). But this bad? Dunno. I still think they might make a small push and finish closer to where I had them last week (10th overall pick), but I can’t put them there after losing to that Panthers team which, nothing personal, does not impress at the moment.

Anyhow, what’s the nod? They may get some trade nibbles, as the way the order is set up, teams 5-8 could all give brief consideration to a QB (although I highly doubt it for a couple teams). At the end of the day, local boy Glenn Dorsey might be too good to pass up here, and it does give them that dynamic interior player they are lacking. Yeah, it’s a lot of resources on the DL, but it might be too good to pass. That said, Jake Long would get some consideration (could use a RT).

New Orleans Saints pick: DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

4. New York Jets

You know, it’s odd, but I feel like in a lot of other years, they would be the number 1 pick. This football season seems odd in that, while there is parity in some respects in the middle, there’s also a noticeable top tier that separates … and a bottom tier that seems to separate.

What do the Jets do here? DL is a consideration, as is OL. They need a back, but no one is worth it here (and I think they might look at FA, perhaps someone Brian Schottenheimer knows in Michael Turner). An edge guy certain gets some attention. As a couple Jets fans have pointed out to me, BPA might win the day.

That said, the way the order is set up, there’s a chance that the team in the 5-8 slots could all consider a QB, and that might lead to a team jumping up. As such, I am projecting a trade:

Projected Trade:

Minnesota Vikings get the 4th overall
New York Jets get the 6th and Minnesota’s 3rd rounder

Minnesota has an extra pick to play with (Denver’s 3rd from the Marcus Thomas trade). I really like this Minnesota squad team in many regards, but I can’t help but think the lack of quality QB play is going to bite them where the wins/losses are concerned. That said, I have them bunched in what I call the middle tier, which is basically 5-28. That is, they are in the parity area, and not the elite, or poor area. I think Minnesota, because it has a very good team overall, may get aggressive and move up for a QB. I think the Jets would be open to sliding down a couple slots and taking the extra asset to help rebuild.

The bigger note may be who they take. After further consideration, I have slid Matt Ryan up to the top spot on my QB list. If Childress is there, I think Ryan is a good fit, but even if he isn’t, Ryan seems like the type that can fit into many schemes. I think I still prefer Woodson personally, but the line is getting thinner. Granted, Ryan is going to hit the meat of his schedule soon, so we’ll see if he has staying power.

Minnesota Vikings f/ New York Jets pick: QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

5. Atlanta Falcons

I think, if the Falcons finish with the 5th pick (or anything lower), give Petrino a lot of credit. This was a team that many had penciled in for the number 1 spot from the get go. He has them fighting. Picking here, though, isn’t necessarily ideal. They miss out on the impact RB now, and Dorsey is off. Defense doesn’t look likely as a result. OL is given a thought, but at the end, they go for the franchise QB they need, and keep their 2nd round picks to add assets to retool. The nod goes to Andre’ Woodson, who has all the tools to be a star, but has some work to do. Leftwich/Harrington (or someone) can ease him in. Woodson lacks the elite tools, a la Russell, but he has top tools. That said, with the small issues he has to work on, Ryan passed him on this go around.

Atlanta Falcons pick: QB Andre’ Woodson, Kentucky

6. New York Jets f/ Minnesota Vikings

The Jets slide down from the Vikings trade. I think they would be very open to a trade. Problem is, who? I don’t see anything, so I go with a pick. Thus, I’m thinking Jake Long or Tyson Jackson. I think I’m in the minority right now, as I see few people that suggest Tyson as a top of the first pick. I think he could be, though. This is a thin draft at the top, and he has a fairly good size/athleticism combination. Add in the scheme fit potential with the Jets. I think he might turn pro, because if LSU can win the title, I can see some guys deciding that, it’s time to cash in.

New York Jets pick: DL Tyson Jackson, LSU

7. Buffalo Bills

Yes, I know, I’ve written a couple times above that teams 5-8 might consider a QB. And yes, the Bills might consider it … that said, I was a big fan of Edwards last year, and after the last two weeks, I think Edwards may be given a go with it. They might add a day 1 QB at some point, but I think Edwards will get a shot (and I think Losman is on his way out). Thus, no QB. This team has definitely shown some fight, and with some key pieces in the draft, they could be a surprise team in 2008.

So who? I’m thinking OL or DL because I’m not sure there’s a WR worth it, and the secondary isn’t a glaring need (and same goes for LB). DT is probably the thought ahead of DE if they go DL. With all the assets outlayed for the OL last year, I lean DL here. I’m thinking Southern California guys. I really want to go end, but it doesn’t make enough sense for me, so I go with Sedrick Ellis, even though I question if he’s a top 7 overall pick. They just don’t have that interior player yet.

Buffalo Bills pick: DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California

8. Kansas City Chiefs

Why did the Chiefs slide up quite a bit? Largely because, if the Brodie Croyle era comes, struggles are going to happen. They may consider a QB here … if one is worth it. I don’t believe one is worth it here for now, and I don’t see them dealing down far enough to consider it. Rather, I think they’ll consider a QB in the 2nd/3rd (after all, value is going to be good there) to compete with Croyle and Huard.

So what now? The Jared Allen situation bears watching, but that said, I don’t see them taking an end this high. Tackle seems unlikely here, on account of value primarily, and LB/DB don’t seem like top 10 type needs for them. On offense, they’ve potentially found a WR in Bowe, and LJ is there. Thus, the pick goes OL, where Jake Long is still hanging around. I may have to reconsider things, as a team might move up to snag him. I have questions on how good Jake Long is as a LT in the pros, but he’ll definitely carve out running lanes, wherever he is, for Larry Johnson, which is what their offense is predicated upon when it is at it’s best.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: OT Jake Long, Michigan

9. Oakland Raiders

I am really impressed with Lane Kiffin. He’s really done a good job with that offense there. I wanted to move them down a bit, but I can’t help but wonder if, at some point, the Jamarcus Russell era will begin. If that happens, I’d look for them to maybe move up the draft order. The situation, though, is fluid.

So what’s the call here? Actually, it’s a deal. After thinking OT/DE/WR for awhile, I ended up going the deal route. I think the Raiders would consider it to add assets to help push them forward. Who’s the team that moves up?

Projected Trade:

Philadelphia Eagles get the 9th overall pick
Oakland Raiders get the 13th overall and the Eagles 3rd rounder

The Eagles seem very enigmatic to me. There’s all the potential to be good, with good depth of young talent, and key veteran pieces. But it just doesn’t seem there so far. Granted, tis early, but they are also in a tough division where Washington looks really rejuvenated, Dallas looks dominant, and the Giants are looking good. It’s going to be tough. Anyhow, I have them moving up. The target? One Kenny Phillips. Considine is a decent safety, but he can be upgraded, and Dawkins is aging.

Philadelphia Eagles f/ Oakland Raiders pick: S Kenny Phillips, the U

10. Detroit Lions

Well, Lions fans should be pleased. I took Phillips off the board, so no consideration on that. I have them 10th, which is better than last time, but this team, I just don’t think they are that good despite their current record. They were shellacked by the Redskins. Granted, the Redskins are looking good, but can this D do enough to balance the O? And Mike Martz is an enigmatic playcaller in many respects.

Anyhow, this time around, the nod goes to Chris Long. He’s the type of guy I could see Rod Marinelli falling heads over heels for. Ask him to play at 260, and he might be more explosive than most think. Sound technically, hustles all the time, and a solid 2-way end. Ikaika Alama-Francis was interesting last year, but he never seemed like an ideal end fit. Marinelli gets the end that he wanted last year, and maybe slides Alama-Francis inside?

Detroit Lions pick: DE Chris Long, Virginia

11. Cincinnati Bengals

I look at this team and I think, they should be real good. There’s talent there. And yet, they stutter. My guess is they’ll probably rise up a bit (that is, slide down the draft) as the season progresses, but I had a hard time putting them lower right now. The defense isn’t carrying it’s weight, and there might be the tiniest cracks there. Marvin’s a good coach, but this might be a Tampa Bay like situation where the Bengals might need not only a new GM, but maybe a new voice in the locker room.

What’s the pick? Phillips is off, and so is Long, taking two options away. DT value is off, and CB is an unlikely nod. Considering the defensive trouble, I think most expect the pick to be on that side of the ball. So, I’m thinking 2 areas, LB and DE, and I’m thinking two USC guys. Who gets the nod? I’m thinking Lawrence Jackson to help increase the pass rush.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: DE Lawrence Jackson, Southern California

12. Dallas Cowboys f/ Cleveland Browns

Cleveland’s really fought well this year, but the talent isn’t really there for me to think they’ll finish much better than this. And if any injuries occur, they may finish much higher in the draft. That said, if they finish here, my guess is Savage and/or Crennel get another shot.

That said, this pick is Dallas’, and if the draft falls this way, there’s a lot of options for them, ranging from OL, to WR, to CB. DL, S, and RB lack value here. Who gets the nod? After further consideration, I come around to what the folks said, and I go with DeSean Jackson over CB’s. He’s a dynamic player that might also draw Jerry Jones’ fancy at the same time.

Dallas Cowboys pick: WR DeSean Jackson, California

13. Oakland Raiders f/ Philadelphia Eagles

Raiders slid down earlier. What’s the nod? I want to go Sam Baker again … but after further consideration, offensive scheming may allow them to draft OL later on. They’ll be disappointed in missing out on Jackson, I think. It’s a tough call here. The nod goes to a WR from the SEC, someone who could be that big time target for Jamarcus to grow with.

Oakland Raiders pick: WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt

14. New England Patriots f/ San Francisco 49ers

Niners may be a year away. A good core is in place, but losing Alex Smith hurts the offense, and the defense doesn’t look strong enough to carry it yet. That said, this is New England’s pick. What’s the most dominant team so far in the NFL to do? I have a tendency to look trade first when the Patriots are up, and I find a target.

Projected Trade:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers get the 14th overall pick
New England Patriots get the 20th overall pick and a 2nd rounder in 2009

New England may be willing to take a future asset considering they still have a 2nd and 2 3rd’s. I have Tampa Bay in the playoffs, and I could see them getting aggressive in meeting needs. They may be a team that looks hard at Michael Turner in the offseason as well. But RB lacks value here. That said, they could use a LT. Penn’s interesting, but interesting’s the key word. Can they wait on him to develop? Petitgout’s health has to be a concern. With Sam Baker having slid, here’s a LT that might be a franchise type LT in the middle of the first. Is this a gamble they might make? I lean yes, because they’ve added a lot of young assets on defense to let it run wild, and they can add a speedy WR in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers f/ San Francisco 49ers via New England Patriots pick: OT Sam Baker, Southern California

15. Carolina Panthers

Carolina’s such an enigma to me. Yes, they beat the Saints, but looking at it in retrospect, that might not really be anything to get excited about. Is David Carr the answer? I don’t think so … and I see them finishing on the outside looking in. QB may be a consideration here, but is there anyone of value? Yes, I know Brian Brohm is still on board here. Not sure about it, and they can find a QB in the 2nd/3rd who is close in value. WR/RB/TE seem unlikely. DL/LB/DB seem unlikely. Thus, it’s OL. If they are on the outside looking in, then Fox may be gone. I take the best LT on the board, IMO, in Ryan Clady, who has immense upside. That said, he has to be more consistent, otherwise the nod would go to Gosder Cherilus.

Carolina Panthers pick: OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

16. Houston Texans

Texans look significantly improved, so give their leadership a lot of credit. After being bashed last year, they are moving the organization in the right steps. That said, tough division, tough conference, so probably a year, if not 2, from a serious playoff charge. What’s the call here?

Tough place to pick. Their main needs really can’t be met here in safety and RB barring a big reach, IMO. OL draws a passing thought, but I’m just not sold on Kubiak buying into such a move. DL seems unlikely, considering Travis Johnson is improving and spending 3 first round picks on the DL in recent years. What else? CB and WR get heavy consideration. I tried looking for a deal, but who works? Who decides to bolt up here? I’m not sure after shooting the gun with the Buccaneers deal.

This might be slightly out of Left Field, but I’m going LB. Ryans is their stud in the middle, and he helps make everything go smooth. But they could use another playmaker here. Greenwood is a decent backer, but nothing special, and he’s only got 2 years left on his deal if I have it right. The nod goes to Keith Rivers as a playmaking weakside linebacker.

Houston Texans pick: LB Keith Rivers, Southern California

17. Denver Broncos

Denver may look around to make a deal, but I had a hard time coming up with anyone that I buy right now. So what’s the call? Denver fans have been telling me LB for awhile, and I’m starting to come around on that. Safety lacks value here. Rivers is off unfortunately. I like Dre’ Moore a lot, but I’m hesitant right now to put him mid-first. Yeah, I was a bit wild on that first mock.

I like Maualaga, but show me that good time first and then I’ll bite. Rey seems instinctive, quick, and smart, but top speed? I’ll wait and see. Connor is a bit undersized, and I’m not sure he’s this standout everyone seems to think, draft value wise. Erin Henderson gets consideration here. The end nod goes to … Beau Bell. A bit underrated, reportedly with good athleticism for the size, he may be that mike backer to help shore up the run D and perhaps move DJ Williams to the weakside.

Denver Broncos pick: LB Beau Bell, UNLV

18. Chicago Bears

It was a nice win over Green Bay, sparking some hope, but the reality is that, as much as we won the game, the Packers also lost it. They could’ve blown it open in the first half. That said, it increased my optimism a bit and I’ve slid the Bears to a spot where the playoffs are in reach, but they are still on the outside looking in.

What’s the nod here? The QB pick would seem like the right one, and Brohm might be value here. But I’ll come out of LF a bit on this one and not make that call. Why? No matter what, this is a team in 2008-2009 that will be looking for the playoffs. There’s needs on this team, and the QB draft is deep enough to find an intriguing guy later. Look for us to go after a veteran to compete with Griese (or give Orton a full blown shot in the offseason to compete) while adding a youngster to develop.

Angelo seems to like BC lineman. He was reportedly intrigued with Marten last year, and he did pick Columbo. Cherilus is arguably better than both of those guys, and he’s still hanging on the board. He could be the LT of the future, but he could also slide in at RT for now, or even guard. We need help up front, and Miller is likely done, and perhaps Brown as well.

Chicago Bears pick: OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

19. New York Giants

Giants are playing real well, but I’m just not sure this is a playoff team. This is a team with an average offense and average defense. That said, average may be enough in the NFC, but I’ve got them on the outskirts for now. What’s the call here? After writing for the last few picks that I couldn’t come up with anything trade wise, I gave hard thought to it here. Largely because, I don’t like the options available for the G-Men. Not sold on Connor here. Do they take the plunge on Henderson, who might be a little raw in coverage relative to their needs? WR likely can be addressed later. So I found a trade partner

Projected trade:

Arizona Cardinals get the 19th overall pick
New York Giants get the 28th overall pick and the Cardinals 3rd rounder

I really like what the Cardinals are doing, and I think they may end up being the division champs and one of the favorites in the NFC. Leaving draft positioning aside, what do the Cardinals need? A number of areas could be addressed, but it sure looks like they could use an impact corner. I started thinking, well, why wait? The CB’s have mysteriously fallen in this go-around (they might rise the next go-around), and all the pickings are available. Sure, they could use that third rounder to boost other areas, or they could address a key need to make a harder push next year. Anyhow, they are going corner, and Malcolm Jenkins gets the nod over Justin King.

Arizona Cardinals f/ New York Giants pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins

20. New England Patriots f/ Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The Patriots deal down and really have a lot of options presented to them. I thought about another deal down but changed my mind. I’m looking at two guys. Erin Henderson and Justin King. Both ILB and CB could be addressed this offseason. What’s the nod? This is tough. In a coin toss basically, I go with Justin King, considering Asante Samuel could be gone, and they can find a LB later.

New England Patriots pick: CB Justin King, Penn State

21. Seattle Seahawks

I just haven’t been impressed with Seattle so far this year, and hence why Arizona gets the nod for the division crown. But Seattle is still in the playoffs, barely. What’s the nod here? To be honest, I’m not sure. I really, if I had my druthers, personally I would go DL. But that just doesn’t seem like a move they would make after the recent signings and picks. DB doesn’t seem likely here. LB seems a no as well. So I look offense. OL was a thought, but at the end of the day, I go with WR and hope to find a playmaker.

Seattle Seahawks pick: WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma

22. Tennessee Titans

They’ve really had a resurgence, but unfortunately, I have them on the outside looking in. Tough division (and conference). Positioning aside, what’s the call here? I was thinking WR a long time, with Harry Douglas and Keenan Burton coming to mind. Just not sure after further consideration. So what? They could use pass rush help. By no means is this a pick I love, not because of the player, but more because of the fit. But the nod is going to Vernon Gholston. Is he an everydown end in a 4-3? It’s questionable, but Fisher is a very adaptable defensive HC and likely would work with Schwartz to make something happen. I like Gholston better than the 22nd pick, but who picks him before this?

Tennessee Titans pick: DE Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

23. San Diego Chargers

Much to my own surprise, I have slid the Chargers into the playoffs. Not sure if they are that great a team, but the AFC West looks poor, and the team may hit it’s stride. What’s the nod here? I thought trade, as they lost an asset to the Bears in the Weddle deal. But I wasn’t sold on anything, so I made a pick. Defensively, they don’t really need anything this high. Sure, more DL talent would be ncie, but it’s not pressing. They did spend a supplemental on Paul Oliver, and still have Cromartie, so even if Florence leaves, there are options. And they added Weddle at safety (and safety lacks value here).

What’s the call? Not sure this will be well received, but it sure seems like they are at their best with LaDainian and a good number 2 back. Who gets the nod? Mr. Number 2 back reemerges after falling out for a mock, and Felix Jones is the home run hitter they add here.

San Diego Chargers pick: RB Felix Jones, Arkansas

24. Baltimore Ravens

This is an intriguing team, but also inconsistent in some respects. That said, I think it’s good enough to make the playoffs. What’s the call if they are picking here? There’s a tempting option on hand in Brian Brohm, but I think they would pass on that. What’s next? A lot of options abound, but with Brohm falling, someone is likely to move up. I do think Brohm is a first rounder still, just not a high first guy. Who moves up? Well, I’ll lean with my team and go with

Projected Trade:

Chicago Bears get the 24th overall pick
Baltimore Ravens get the Bears 2nd, and the Bears 2 3rd’s

I think Ozzie would consider trading down. I think, if Brohm falls, someone will push up. I’m not for this move for the Bears, and while Angelo is conservative, I could see it happen. Sure, we’ve got other needs, but this might be temptinig after adding Cherilus (and heck, we could get a pick back from an Alex Brown deal). After all, the Jaguars could consider Brohm.

Chicago Bears f/ Baltimore Ravens pick: QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

25. Jacksonville Jaguars

If they are consistent down the stretch, this is a real contender. Only reason I have a couple NFC teams ahead is they are in a tough division and may lose a game or two to slide a bit. Anyhow, what’s the call? If Brohm falls here, I think they bite. I don’t see them pushing for Brohm, though. What else? A WR is, again, a thought. A defensive end might still be a thought. Defensive end value is good here, and that is where the nod goes. The nod goes to Derrick Harvey as a raw end to help with the pass rush now, and hopefully develop into a 2-way end in time.

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

26. Washington Redskins

That sure was a dominating performance, giving me hope that they can make a good run this year. Defensively, they look real good, and if Campbell develops as the season progresses, Gibbs, who most expect is in his swan song, may go out feeling good. Now, I’m not crazy enough to slide them to the 31 spot yet, but I think this year’s Redskins/Cowboys games will be quite intriguing.

Anyhow, they are here for now. What’s the call? OL is a concern, with the age of the line getting up there. A DE is a thought. I wouldn’t be surprised if WR worked it’s way into the picture. I’d like to think of a deal, because the situation isn’t great here, but I’ve run out of ideas for now. I want to go OL, but unless someone gets cut, I don’t see it happening. DE fit isn’t really here, so I’ll go with a bigger WR. Nod goes to Keenan Burton.

Washington Redskins pick: WR Keenan Burton, Kentucky

27. Green Bay Packers

Still have them high, even though more questions exist now. Their offense disappeared in the 2nd half. Was that self-induced, or was it the Bears? That said, they did show signs of a run game, which is why I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and stick them here for now (also because I typed this all out already and didn’t feel continuing to think about order, since it’s so early).

So what’s the call? Favre looks as if he’ll be back, so Aaron Rodgers gets to hold the clipboard again. RB could be a look, although it’s tough to gauge until Brandon Jackson gets in there again. They have a nice 3-deep WR grouping. TE value seems iffy here. Safety, LB, and DL seem largely fine. I’ll stick with the corner pick from before. I like Porter a lot, and I think he could move into this range.

Green Bay Packers pick: CB Tracy Porter, Indiana


28. New York Giants f/ Arizona Cardinals

Giants dealt down earlier. So what now? Looking LB, as they could use one. I’m not a huge fan of Dan Connor’s draft value, but I think he could be a real good player. He gets the nod here. Is he the ideal WLB? Probably not. But he's a capable WLB that could provide a steady hand right away and is solid value late round 1.

New York Giants pick: LB Dan Connor, Penn State

29. Pittsburgh Steelers

Steelers sure look good, and should make a good run this year. This is the upper tier, but unfortunately, there are 3 AFC teams to 1 NFC team, so their road is tougher. Well, after doing the DL pick earlier, I decided to take some time and think things through. And after further consideration … I’ll probably get criticized for my new direction. I thought long and hard about G. But I’m not sure there’s one of value. I gave Benedict a lot of thought here, along with the usual suspects. I gave thought to an OT sliding in. I just couldn’t see it here. I thought WR … but couldn’t see that. I tried expanding my thought process, just not sure I see it. A big back can wait. I’m going ILB, and going Erin Henderson. Erin could be a dominant ILB. Farrior is entering the final year of his deal, if I have it correct, and Foote is 2 years away from the end of his deal. Henderson could also be a good cover 2 mike backer option potentially. Be curious on the responses here.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: LB Erin Henderson, Maryland

30. San Francisco 49ers f/ Indianapolis Colts

Colts are looking good, but Patriots look a notch better IMO, so far. Anyhow, this is the Niners pick. What’s the call here? A lot of intriguing talent on the board. There’s some DL options. WR and OL all have options as well. I know Niners fans want a DL pick here, and I’m tempted, but I lean Groves in the end. Reason being … you still don’t know if Lawson is that dominant pass rusher, and Banta-Cain/Haralson are iffy bets. I figure I’ll hear some critiques on this one again. If I did go DL, it would be Dre’ Moore here.

San Francisco 49ers pick: DE/OLB Quentin Groves, Auburn

31. Dallas Cowboys

Cowboys look good, but we’ll find out soon enough if they can play with the Pats. As of now, I think the Pats look better, and the Boys effort against Buffalo certainly leaves a lot to be desired. They added DeSean Jackson earlier. What’s next? OL is a thought, but at this point, you might as well wait, and/or give Free/Marten the shot if an opening occurs. RB is a thought. A DB is a thought. What’s the call? Finally, Moore comes off the board this time around. He can play all 3 DL spots and could be a versatile addition.

Dallas Cowboys pick: DL Dre’ Moore, Maryland

32. New England Patriots (forfeited)

Finsfan79
10-09-2007, 10:00 AM
hmmm so I guess ronnie brown breaks out and we trade him then? That is a big cap hit, whom do we trade him to? If you cant find a good partner for McFadden trade then a brown one would be worse.

I dont know dude McFadden is amazing for a player just seems a weird move.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 10:20 AM
Here's the thing - what's the move at 1? Trade partners on a pick is obviously a bit different than trade partners for a player.

Do you go Calais Campbell at 1? Jake Long seems like a horrible reach. I was fine going with him anywhere 4 and down (maybe 3 and down if the right situation presented). But 1?

After thinking about it, I guess they could go with McFadden and Brown for a year and move Brown after that, when he'll have, if I have it correct, 2 years left on his deal? Certainly a 2 headed running attack would help ease Beck in and dealing Brown after this year would make more financial sense, while still maintaining the potential for good return value due to the years left and his age.

The short of it is this - let's say there are no trade opportunities that make sense for Miami at 1 ... what move do you make? I don't buy Glenn Dorsey there. Just doesn't make enough sense to warrant it at first overall.

Finsfan79
10-09-2007, 10:31 AM
Here's the thing - what's the move at 1? Trade partners on a pick is obviously a bit different than trade partners for a player.

Do you go Calais Campbell at 1? Jake Long seems like a horrible reach. I was fine going with him anywhere 4 and down (maybe 3 and down if the right situation presented). But 1?

After thinking about it, I guess they could go with McFadden and Brown for a year and move Brown after that, when he'll have, if I have it correct, 2 years left on his deal? Certainly a 2 headed running attack would help ease Beck in and dealing Brown after this year would make more financial sense, while still maintaining the potential for good return value due to the years left and his age.

The short of it is this - let's say there are no trade opportunities that make sense for Miami at 1 ... what move do you make? I don't buy Glenn Dorsey there. Just doesn't make enough sense to warrant it at first overall.

I agree with the assesment and I cant see Campbell there honestly either as he fits just as poorly as Dorsey does overall. Just like last year with the kid coming out that we passed over and went to Houston. Dorsey is alot like him actually (forget the name offhand).

I think right now we dont need a left tackle. Carey has been wonderful there, what we need is a Right tackle, a Nose Tackle, A big time safety, a MLB for the future, some WRs that can catch actually, a guard, and alot of depth.

Now if McFadden is far and away the top player in the draft and nobody else comes close in value you need to take the BPA. This draft like the Brown draft matches horribly with our needs and imo is a weak draft compared to the last few drafts we have had.

I think the best match up really in your draft order is the Jets. But that would bring into question would the Jets and miami make a trade?

if I remember right it was around 95 or 96 that the dolphins and jets last traded with each other over the james brown for a pick.

It would put us in the 4th pick in the draft where we could then take Long for the Right side of the line (perhaps left if he is better then I think he will be). Or another move for an impact player (perhaps even a safety).


I guess what it comes down to is what you feel is the biggest impact player in the draft. Is it Dorsey or Mcfadden or Long for Miami for the long term if they could indeed move Brown after next year for a 1st or other good value (in a league with so many backs gotta wonder).

We are a hard team to figure out right now it seems even for the fans.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 10:39 AM
Amobi Okoye is who I'm assuming you are thinking about.

My thing with the Jets is that, I'm not sure they would deal up to 1. Why deal all those assets when there are multiple needs on the team? Doesn't make sense ... even though they really could use a RB.

At 4, speaking hypothetically, I would certainly consider Long. RT/LT, doesn't really make a difference as long as that line can help (I do think that Long can be a LT for what Cameron does). The differentiation, though, is big in regards to, well, at least, my thought process. I'm just not big on taking a RT that high.

Short of it, I agree. Horrible draft for the Fins to be drafting high. Heck, this time around, there isn't even a Braylon Edwards to even remotely consider. That said, barring a surprise, I just can't see Lemon/Beck leading the Fins to enough wins to not be picking, say, in the top, 6 at the very least.

Finsfan79
10-09-2007, 11:01 AM
Amobi Okoye is who I'm assuming you are thinking about.

My thing with the Jets is that, I'm not sure they would deal up to 1. Why deal all those assets when there are multiple needs on the team? Doesn't make sense ... even though they really could use a RB.

At 4, speaking hypothetically, I would certainly consider Long. RT/LT, doesn't really make a difference as long as that line can help (I do think that Long can be a LT for what Cameron does). The differentiation, though, is big in regards to, well, at least, my thought process. I'm just not big on taking a RT that high.

Short of it, I agree. Horrible draft for the Fins to be drafting high. Heck, this time around, there isn't even a Braylon Edwards to even remotely consider. That said, barring a surprise, I just can't see Lemon/Beck leading the Fins to enough wins to not be picking, say, in the top, 6 at the very least.

I agree completely with your full assesment (like often it seems over the few of years here now). Indeed the Jets do have alot of needs. Perhaps we can try to get a team to trade up for one of the QB's over another perhaps. But even there is unlikely.

For Long yes perhaps he could for our system we run, he is the type of Tackle that would make Hudson Houck drool for. As he is the huge beefy guy with the potential sky high to mold around. If we can drop back to 4-6 Long or Phillips is perfect for the team imo.

And there is no way I see us winning more then 3 games unless something amazing happens and Beck is really Dan Marino reborn (which I dont think so. I see him becoming a solid average QB in the NFL for the long term like Delhome or Green in their prime. Not top 5 in the talks ever but a safe one that makes few mistakes).

Well hopefully next years top 5 will be better for us (good chance we will be there yet again).

Mr. Stiller
10-09-2007, 11:17 AM
Toonster,

While I'd want a LT first and foremost. Henderson is the only defensive player not named Gholston I'd pass on a LT for.

Henderson seems to have the same exact style/build and features as Farrior. His ability to play Buck in our 3-4 (While Timmons is moving to Mack) would be excellent.

I really want this kid and so I'm hoping he stays in school so we can focus on the OL this year and draft Henderson next year.

But Yes, I'd definitely love that pick.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 11:30 AM
Toonster,

While I'd want a LT first and foremost. Henderson is the only defensive player not named Gholston I'd pass on a LT for.

Henderson seems to have the same exact style/build and features as Farrior. His ability to play Buck in our 3-4 (While Timmons is moving to Mack) would be excellent.

I really want this kid and so I'm hoping he stays in school so we can focus on the OL this year and draft Henderson next year.

But Yes, I'd definitely love that pick.

I think, unless Marvel Smith's contract is ending sooner than I remember ...

well strike that, I just realized that Marvel Smith is entering the last year of his deal ... any updates on that front? Is he going to be resigned?

What I originally was going to say was that you could find a good guard to work with later on.

Thinking about it now that I know Marvel's contract, I still think going OL later makes more sense. After the top crop comes off (with Cherilus being the last one in the top for now, unless some other guys turn pro), the OT's in the 2nd/3rd round are pretty close in rating, and OG's are definitely better in value in the 3rd.

I do think Henderson can be a wonderful fit. His coverage abilities are still a bit raw compared to his run-stopping awareness, but the tools are there to really develop and he has the athleticism and size to potentially be a good cover 2 mike backer if you guys go that route at some point. But he's a better fit for a 3-4 ILB role right now, and I thik he could dominate in that role.

Is TImmons definitely moving to MACK (just to make sure I have it correct, Larry Foote is the MACK and Farrior's the BUCK right? Sorta lost track of terminology the past year). Either way, I do think that Henderson can fit in either role. He's probably a bit more physical than Farrior ever was.

derza222
10-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Fantastic job with the Jets toonster. Love the trade down, love the pick, love the analysis. Good call with the Bengals as well, I assume the other guy you were considering was Rivers and you really couldn't go wrong either way, though I agree DL takes priority.

Also, just out of curiousity, what are your feelings on Bowman? He's a guy that some people love and other's don't, just wondering what your opinion was.

regoob2
10-09-2007, 12:53 PM
that would be an ecxiting round for the Bears. I would like to have both those guys but i just don't see angelo trading up. I'd make that trade its just not something he seems to do.

Mr. Stiller
10-09-2007, 01:09 PM
I think, unless Marvel Smith's contract is ending sooner than I remember ...

well strike that, I just realized that Marvel Smith is entering the last year of his deal ... any updates on that front? Is he going to be resigned?

I'm guessing Marvel will be re-signed for a decent amount. Nothing huge, he'll probably be a LT/RT Backup. Watching games I can see his speed and agility declining. I never thought he was a "Great" Lt but certainly solid. His contract runs out after the 2008 season. So I'm thinking Chris Williams of Vanderbilt in round 2 or Round 1 if Henderson stays.

What I originally was going to say was that you could find a good guard to work with later on.

Frankly, I think we should draft 2 OT's. Colon is a bit out of place at RT. He'd doing solid, but he doesn't have the footwork to play OT. He'd be a good replacement for Faneca as his pass protection is already better, and I would love to see Colon slide to LG with Kemoeatu being inserted at RG.

Thinking about it now that I know Marvel's contract, I still think going OL later makes more sense. After the top crop comes off (with Cherilus being the last one in the top for now, unless some other guys turn pro), the OT's in the 2nd/3rd round are pretty close in rating, and OG's are definitely better in value in the 3rd.

I basically want Jeff Otah and Chris Williams as our future bookends from this draft.

Player: Last year under contract
Faneca: 2007
Smith: 2008
Starks: 2007
Essex: 2007 (RFA)
Kemo: 2007 (UFA)
Colon: 2010
Mahan: 2011

So our OL does need some help (Preferably 2-3 guys. Otah/Williams and a later rounder OG/C guy like a Fernando Velasco of Georgia)


I do think Henderson can be a wonderful fit. His coverage abilities are still a bit raw compared to his run-stopping awareness, but the tools are there to really develop and he has the athleticism and size to potentially be a good cover 2 mike backer if you guys go that route at some point. But he's a better fit for a 3-4 ILB role right now, and I thik he could dominate in that role.

Agreed. I would absolutely love him to come in for a season and learn behind Farrior. He has essentially the same skillset, I think he's a tad bit faster. I don't believe we're going to a cover-2 as long as Lebeau is there (Then again against Seattle we ran a cover 2 with a 3-man front... so we are essentially running a Tomlin2 I guess, not a Tampa2.)

Is TImmons definitely moving to MACK (just to make sure I have it correct, Larry Foote is the MACK and Farrior's the BUCK right? Sorta lost track of terminology the past year). Either way, I do think that Henderson can fit in either role. He's probably a bit more physical than Farrior ever was.

Timmons is definitely moving to Mack. They let him play ROLB in the pre-season because the responsibilities for the OLB's in our system are 100 times more complex than the ILB's. LeBeau wanted Timmons to understand his job and role at OLB, so when he plays RILB, he knows exactly whats going on around him.

As for Henderson. He's everything I look for in a 3-4 ILB. He's not a Patrick Willis/Ray Lewis type. He's not the type of guy that you run at. I'm not cutting down either Lewis/Willis but they're more the chaser LB's. Make most of their plays running to the sides or down field. Henderson, Like Farrior, is a brick wall. When a RB runs into him, thats where the play ends.

I also think with Hendersons rare strength and speed Lebeau would love to use him like we do with Farrior. More as a Blitzer. I'm not overly concerned with Hendersons raw coverage ability because frankly, he'll be attacking the LOS and rushing the passer from his interior LB spot. Timmons will be the more likely coverage candidate. I love the way they're blitzing Farrior this season. He has 4.5 Sacks in 5 games thus far and I think Henderson could essentially do the same exact things.

If I could add 2-3 Guys at any point..

Vernon Gholston, a rare athlete for ROLB.
Erin Henderson, LILB for every reason I stated earlier.
Brandon Flowers, Basically a much more explosive and powerful version of DeShea Townsend.

bearsfan_51
10-09-2007, 01:19 PM
that would be an ecxiting round for the Bears. I would like to have both those guys but i just don't see angelo trading up. I'd make that trade its just not something he seems to do.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Angelo admitted to having discussions with teams last year about moving up for B.Quinn but that the demands were too high for what they had to offer.

That said..I'm just not sure that is the most prudent move. Call me a traditionalist, but I think this teams biggest problem right now is depth. I guess in the long run we really aren't giving up that much, and that would solve the future RT and QB problems, but that would basically be our draft class, barring Angelo finding a gem in the later rounds.

I guess all things considered it makes a lot of sense though, so I can't argue.

thebow305
10-09-2007, 05:50 PM
Although the McFadden pick is intriguing.. I think the chances we take another RB when we have so many other needs, are very slim. Ronnie is the best back in the league RIGHT NOW, and is the best thing we have going. They really like Chatman, and they also drafted Lorenzo Booker in the 3rd round this year to become the eventual 3rd down/change of pace guy to Ronnie. So with all that in mind, McFadden would be a great player to have, but not at the cost of totally disregarding a huge need for a premier Left Tackle like Jake Long or elite defensive prospect like Calais Campbell that would upgrade positions of much bigger need than Running Back.

aNYtitan
10-09-2007, 05:50 PM
I am shocked that you don't have either Early Doucet or James Laurinatis in the first round, since they seem bound to be first rounders. Give the Titans either because they would improve either core

neko4
10-09-2007, 05:54 PM
Bad 2nd half play calling for pack
decent pick

TacticaLion
10-09-2007, 07:16 PM
10. Detroit Lions

Well, Lions fans should be pleased. I took Phillips off the board, so no consideration on that. I have them 10th, which is better than last time, but this team, I just donít think they are that good despite their current record. They were shellacked by the Redskins. Granted, the Redskins are looking good, but can this D do enough to balance the O? And Mike Martz is an enigmatic playcaller in many respects.

Anyhow, this time around, the nod goes to Chris Long. Heís the type of guy I could see Rod Marinelli falling heads over heels for. Ask him to play at 260, and he might be more explosive than most think. Sound technically, hustles all the time, and a solid 2-way end. Ikaika Alama-Francis was interesting last year, but he never seemed like an ideal end fit. Marinelli gets the end that he wanted last year, and maybe slides Alama-Francis inside?

Detroit Lions pick: DE Chris Long, VirginiaGood pick with a great explanation.

A dominant DE would do wonders for our defense and, although I think CB and MLB are bigger needs, Marinelli could definitely target his type of DE with that pick. I wonder about IAF moving inside, though... as great as he'd be there, he can't play the NT position and Redding is locked up at UT.

Either way, I'd take this pick.

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-09-2007, 07:28 PM
I like our trade.Especially since we dont have a 3rd rounder this year.I cant complain with Earl Bennet but I think were more likely to go after a LT.Clady or Baker seem like better picks.I think a DE is the biggest need but itd seem like a reach from where were picking.

T-RICH49
10-09-2007, 08:06 PM
LOVE KC's pick.

PACKmanN
10-09-2007, 08:48 PM
why would we reach for Porter if Jenkins is still on the broad?

Vikes99ej
10-09-2007, 09:06 PM
I like Matt Ryan, but #4....

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:07 PM
Although the McFadden pick is intriguing.. I think the chances we take another RB when we have so many other needs, are very slim. Ronnie is the best back in the league RIGHT NOW, and is the best thing we have going. They really like Chatman, and they also drafted Lorenzo Booker in the 3rd round this year to become the eventual 3rd down/change of pace guy to Ronnie. So with all that in mind, McFadden would be a great player to have, but not at the cost of totally disregarding a huge need for a premier Left Tackle like Jake Long or elite defensive prospect like Calais Campbell that would upgrade positions of much bigger need than Running Back.

If you think Jake Long is a premier LT, then yeah, I could see that move happening. As of now, I don't, though, and I think it would be, even in a weak top portion of the draft, a reach.

As for Campbell, I really did give long though to that. He's just not really an ideal fit, and he isn't really the prospect that Mario Williams was, even if he might be a better athlete (which is debatable as well).

Anyhow, tis early. I guess one component would be how much rope Mueller/Cameron have.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:13 PM
I am shocked that you don't have either Early Doucet or James Laurinatis in the first round, since they seem bound to be first rounders. Give the Titans either because they would improve either core

I passed on Lauranitis coming out, which I pointed out at the top. It was a very subjective decision. I mix and match which juniors I mock at an early stage at times. That said, for everyone that says he's a surefire first rounder, I ask, why? I think if he came out, he probably would be, but I wouldn't put him in anything more than the bottom third of the 1st round right now, big board wise. Good player, but not an elite LB'ing prospect yet to deserve a high move, IMO.

As for Doucet, it was the injury that knocked him down. He hasn't exactly separated himself anyways, and it's not as if he's rumored to be a burner. Thus, I can see him going after the first, although I like him enough. That said, what makes him much better than, say, a Bowman (who I left out of the first), a Burton (I seem like the only person who likes him in the first), a Kelly, and a few other guys. I like him, but I'm not sure he's a surefire first round lock. Let's see what he does when he comes back.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:15 PM
Good pick with a great explanation.

A dominant DE would do wonders for our defense and, although I think CB and MLB are bigger needs, Marinelli could definitely target his type of DE with that pick. I wonder about IAF moving inside, though... as great as he'd be there, he can't play the NT position and Redding is locked up at UT.

Either way, I'd take this pick.

Well, IAF would have to adjust to playing inside, so by no means am I saying he'd be starting inside. But they could use him as a critical swing guy. He's a bit more versatile than Shaun Cody was, and having a guy who can play both spots could save a gameday roster spot. That's all I meant, I didn't mean that he would taking a starting job.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:19 PM
love it. as a position, obviously, but it seems like the kind of player that could be a shanahan pick (bit higher than expected, athletic). i think the only knock i would give him (and it's very minor, given how little past drafting has had to do with the present in denver) is that he may be a bit bigger than guys i would see us picking (DJ is our tallest drafted 'backer at 6-1 and i feel like i remember him weighing around 230 when we picked him, though he's 240ish now). *shrug* that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Actually, I think DJ weighed around 240-245 coming out. cnnsi's record keeping for the 2004 draft has him at 250, which seems a bit high, but that said, it might be.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:20 PM
why would we reach for Porter if Jenkins is still on the broad?

why is it necessarily a reach? Porter seems more like a better man to man cornerback, imo. He also supposedly has better high end speed, with enough size. I like Jenkins a lot too, and I could see him going there as well, but I don't think Jenkins definitively grades better than Porter, if that's what you are asking.

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:23 PM
I like Matt Ryan, but #4....

I am coming around to the idea of a QB going much higher than expected. I don't love the idea, but coming around to it. I do think Ryan/Woodson are solid top 10 cases in this draft. With the way things shake out, with an extra third rounder on hand, does drafting him at 6 or 4 make a significant difference? Short of it was, with Atlanta ahead of them, my thinking was to get aggressive and get the guy they wanted, instead of sitting pat, when all it would cost would be a third rounder. I still think Woodson might be the guy I would prefer long run, but Ryan might be a bit more ready to step in, which is what the Vikings may end up looking for.

BroadwayJoe10
10-09-2007, 09:31 PM
love the jets pick. I know a lot of people havn't given much thought to him, but i think he would be a fantastic selection for the jets, as well as the trade down. I just hope that the jets could squeeze out a low 2nd pick from all of it and land on of the prospective NTs. What are the chances that Jackson does in fact leave early? and it would be correct to assume that if they win the National title he would be more apt to leave? I am not too sure of his ideas of academis or any promises to his mother to get a degree or anything that would keep him in school.

Smokey Joe
10-09-2007, 09:41 PM
Love the Bears mock. We get a guy who automatically makes our line better for hopefully many years, and we get our future QB in Brohm, who I still like a lot. The trade works as well, at least according to the trade value chart.

Plus, I can see us adding another 3rd rounder by trading Brown, and perhaps get another 5th or 6th rounder by trading some players who are not needed really anymore, a la Chris Harris.

However, I'd like to see a RB added. With a trade like the one proposed by you, RB might not be available are worth taking by the time we pick again. Perhaps we could sign a veteran who would be a better backup then Peterson? Fred Taylor? Chris Brown?

toonsterwu
10-09-2007, 09:54 PM
If we draft well, a good RB should be available in day 2. A guy I like, Calvin Dawson, would be a nice complement to Benson that could probably do more than Wolfe cold if forced into a bigger role. And Dawson isn't like to go off the board, at earliest, until the 5th, if not later. There's other guys.

On a side note, one guy I regret not getting in there was Ezra Butler. Ah, tis early. we will see what the next iteration brings next, probably Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning.

Caddy
10-09-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of trading up in the first, but Baker would be a nice addition to our line. With him at LT that gives us Baker, Sear, Joseph and Trueblood as the future with only Wade to replace.

thebow305
10-10-2007, 12:16 AM
If you think Jake Long is a premier LT, then yeah, I could see that move happening. As of now, I don't, though, and I think it would be, even in a weak top portion of the draft, a reach.

As for Campbell, I really did give long though to that. He's just not really an ideal fit, and he isn't really the prospect that Mario Williams was, even if he might be a better athlete (which is debatable as well).

Anyhow, tis early. I guess one component would be how much rope Mueller/Cameron have.

I think Calais is twice the prospect Mario was... maybe that's just me being a homer.. who knows!?

Turtlepower
10-10-2007, 12:18 AM
I think Calais is twice the prospect Mario was... maybe that's just me being a homer.. who knows!?

That is DEFINITELY being a homer. I feel as though Gaines Adams is a better prospect than Calais, but that is my opinion. Campbell has all the tools, but needs to show some freaking consistency.

TimD
10-10-2007, 12:23 AM
Chris Long, Jake Long, and Sedrick Ellis are on the board and you have the Jets NOT choosing them? Preposterous!

toonsterwu
10-10-2007, 01:23 AM
Chris Long, Jake Long, and Sedrick Ellis are on the board and you have the Jets NOT choosing them? Preposterous!

Why is that surprising? First off, I don't personally think of any of them as a top 6 caliber prospect. That said, I will say I could see Jake Long go top 6.

In respect to the Jets -

Sedrick Ellis - Don't see the fit. Could he be decent? Sure. But you draft a guy like LeKevin Smith for decent. You want a Richard Seymour in the first, and I'm not sure he's a fit.

Jake Long - I did give thought to him. But ... is a RT really necessary that high in the draft? I mean, there's talk of Barry Richardson falling to the 3rd round in some quarters. Put it this way, Barry Richardson in the 3rd or Jake Long in the first for the Jets? I'd go with the former. (obviously, Richardson being just an example, as there's a couple other intriguing guys in the 2nd/3rd mix).

Chris Long - As a UVA fan, huge, huge fan of Chris. That said, I've been led to believe that his seasonal playing weight is still in that 265-275 range. Yes, he could "Brick" it and bulk up for the combine, but his ideal weight would probably be in that range. As technically proficient as he is, that just doesn't seem like a fit either. He's a better fit than Ellis, IMO, but an elite fit? Don't see it. And personally, I think Chris is better off slimmer, where his athleticism can be shown, and his technique would allow him to leverage and control if he was a 4-3 end. People get so stuck with the idea that he plays a 3-4 end role at UVA and that, within a 3-4 scheme in the NFl, he should be an end. While I would lean that way of now, it would not surprise me in the least if a team thought htey could make him into a 3-4 OLB. The athleticism is there, at least, that's the impression I'm working with on his athletic ability. That said, 4-3 end seems to make the most sense.

Getting back to value, of the three, I really only think Jake Long is worthy in the top 6. Combine that with the fit, I don't see why going that route seems like the definite way to go (based on your post, that's the way it sounds).

So what about Tyoka Jackson? At 6'5" 290-295, with good athleticism and good "containment" skills, he sounds ideal to me for Mangini. I'm not sure why few people have him high if he came out this year. The size/athleticism ratio seems good to me. The Jets definitely could use impact 3-4 DL talent, which you seem to agree with in noting your Chris Long/Sedrick Ellis support. He seems a much better fit. By no means is he a Richard Seymour type of player. That said, he's probably a better fit than Jarvis Green, and Green's could be a decent/good starter over a season if given a run with it (but the Pats have two guys better).

Obviously, it's speculative if he'll come out, as I have no idea. I think he has the tools, though. That said, as I always say, tis early.

Crow
10-10-2007, 05:10 AM
I like our trade.Especially since we dont have a 3rd rounder this year.I cant complain with Earl Bennet but I think were more likely to go after a LT.Clady or Baker seem like better picks.I think a DE is the biggest need but itd seem like a reach from where were picking.
I dunno. If Groves has a good combine/workout period, he could go top 15. I could get onboard with that.

Finsfan79
10-10-2007, 08:07 AM
That is DEFINITELY being a homer. I feel as though Gaines Adams is a better prospect than Calais, but that is my opinion. Campbell has all the tools, but needs to show some freaking consistency.

campbell is a better prospect then adams by a good degree because of his sheer atheletic ability but I dont think better then williams.

Finsfan79
10-10-2007, 08:09 AM
Although the McFadden pick is intriguing.. I think the chances we take another RB when we have so many other needs, are very slim. Ronnie is the best back in the league RIGHT NOW, and is the best thing we have going. They really like Chatman, and they also drafted Lorenzo Booker in the 3rd round this year to become the eventual 3rd down/change of pace guy to Ronnie. So with all that in mind, McFadden would be a great player to have, but not at the cost of totally disregarding a huge need for a premier Left Tackle like Jake Long or elite defensive prospect like Calais Campbell that would upgrade positions of much bigger need than Running Back.

may I point out that our left tackle this year has been a premier type left tackle and he is just learning the position. We need a right tackle more then a left tackle honestly. Even though Carey can play either very well. Now a trade back and getting long would be the ideal situation.

Beans
10-10-2007, 08:11 AM
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of trading up in the first, but Baker would be a nice addition to our line. With him at LT that gives us Baker, Sear, Joseph and Trueblood as the future with only Wade to replace.

Buenning?

(10-ing)

toonsterwu
10-10-2007, 02:30 PM
campbell is a better prospect then adams by a good degree because of his sheer atheletic ability but I dont think better then williams.

By a good degree? I think Campbell is better than Adams, but I wouldn't say by a good degree. Adams showed excellent versatility in playing essentially a hybrid position in college, was certainly no slouch athletically, and was productive, along with having a better motor. I think Campbell's a better prospect, but I don't see it as by a good degree.

princefielder28
10-10-2007, 04:31 PM
Thank you for filling a BIG need for GB

Geo
10-10-2007, 04:31 PM
I think I too like the idea of Chris Long as a 4-3 end, who can slide in at tackle on pass-rushing situations, more than as a 3-4 end.

Also, that's Tyson Jackson, toony. :p

toonsterwu
10-10-2007, 08:11 PM
I think I too like the idea of Chris Long as a 4-3 end, who can slide in at tackle on pass-rushing situations, more than as a 3-4 end.

Also, that's Tyson Jackson, toony. :p

ah ... yup ... who's tyoka jackson ... sounds so familiar ... was he a former NFL end ...

Xiomera
10-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Chris Long to the Lions . . . it's almost like I asked you to give us this pick.

Toonster is so money he doesn't even know it.

BroadwayJoe10
10-10-2007, 08:18 PM
ah ... yup ... who's tyoka jackson ... sounds so familiar ... was he a former NFL end ...

i noticed that too, but you typed it right in ur mock so i just figured u mistyped or were making some joke that i didn't know about lol.. But ya he played for Penn state i thin and a few NFl teams i have no idea about. But, once i saw you mentioned Tyson Jackson in your mock I fell in love with it. I've been watchin him all year and it never clicked. I personally would love a top NT, but there aren't any worthy of a first rounder so hopefully one of the guys in the later rounds. ANd if we get a guy like Jackson who can take the double teams as well itll make our NT (if we still have drob) not look as bad. Which would just increase the overall play of our linebackers and whatnot. Love the pick,now im just gonna get upset when we dont' get him or when i get a man crush on some other guy in a few weeks.

toonsterwu
10-11-2007, 01:55 AM
It's the rare occasion when there's a DT in the first round that is a good fit for the NT role and deserving of first round status, IMO (just anecdotal guessing here, haven't really taken a hard look at the history). There really isn't much this year that feels like a quality fit. One sleeper may be Frank Morton, who only came back recently, but who I have seen little of. But the reports that I've seen seem to suggest he could be a guy to take a chance on in day 2.

d34ng3l021
10-11-2007, 04:08 AM
Good pick for the Falcons. I really like Woodson.

But whoa. What happened to the other QBs? Ryan at 4? I think he is gonna have a Cutler like rise during draft time, and will sneak into the top10, but at number 4? I dont know...

And Brohm dropping that low? I can see it happening, but I dont think teams will make that mistake (Quinn) again. Or, whoever does draft him, will get an absolute steal.