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yodabear
10-09-2007, 09:24 AM
This whole thing where they call a timeout right before the ball is snapped is bull ****. They need to change the rule. It is bull ****. I hate it. The time outs are used for challenges and to stop the clock, not to ice the kicker. Pretty soon the kickers will just get used to it. In fact, I think its to the point that if u don't call timeout, the kicker is confused. I don't even like it when they do it way before the snap. I don't see the point of icing the kicker. Oooh, mind games. This is the mother ******* NFL, not 7th grade. Pisses me off. And oh yeah my Rams are 0-5. My rant is over, thoughts?

RyanLeaf#1
10-09-2007, 09:28 AM
There is no doubt in the offseason there will be a rule put in place that doesnt allow this.

PoopSandwich
10-09-2007, 10:01 AM
It already happened to the Browns = me hating it.

NIN1984
10-09-2007, 10:18 AM
Its risky calling that timeout because it could easily blow up right in their face. If the kicker was to miss the first kick and than make the second than the coach doesn't look so hot now. So it is a risk and if the coach wants to take that risk, go right ahead.

bigbluedefense
10-09-2007, 10:30 AM
I hate it. They need to get rid of this rule. Or adjust it in some way.

WMD
10-09-2007, 10:37 AM
No timeouts with less than 5 seconds left on the Play clock when a Field Goal is being attempted.

SuperKevin
10-09-2007, 10:47 AM
Its a crappy thing to do but I don't see why its a big deal. If you're a professional kicker you need to learn to deal with pressure. If you can't then they need to find someone else who can

JK17
10-09-2007, 10:48 AM
I don't know, I don't hate this rule at all. Part of playing football is being mentally prepared, no matter what the other team throws at you. It's not like its guaranteed to benefit you either, say the kicker shanks it, gets a second shot, then makes it...did it really help to call that timeout? I think you should have to be prepared enough to deal with that.

And on a more practical aspect of it, how do you change the rule? What if a team realizes a last second thing and needs to call a timeout, should they not be able to do so, because the other team is kicking a FG? What if they don't have right personell out there and want to fix it with a timeout? And how do we know if the other team is actually kicking the FG? What if they're running a fake, and the defense notices that, and wants a timeout to adjust? Let's say they can't call that timeout now, the offense burns them for a touchdown all because they werne't alloewd to use their timeouts?

I just don't see how/why the rule should be changed.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
10-09-2007, 10:57 AM
I wish the Saints would've used it against Carolina... :(

Flyboy
10-09-2007, 11:05 AM
I wish the Saints would've used it against Carolina... :(

Like it would've made a difference. Har.

Young Legend
10-09-2007, 11:14 AM
there not gonna change the rule..cause it dosent need to be changed,,and its not even a big deal..

Iamcanadian
10-09-2007, 11:16 AM
There is no doubt in the offseason there will be a rule put in place that doesnt allow this.

I agree although it will be tricky to come up with a rule. Say the rule says you cannot call a timeout in the last minute after a team is set for a FG attempt. I could see teams who have the lead but no intention of kicking a FG, quickly line up in FG position to prevent the other team from calling a timeout and just letting the clock tick down. It may not be correctable.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-09-2007, 11:16 AM
Teams have been able to do this for years, i find it suprising that this year it seems to be getting more attention. I find it very annoying, i mean, i hit an all time high, then possibly can just be filled with such anger in a span of like 30 seconds....drive me nuts.

I don't see them changing it because i can see both sides of the line. It's been around for a long time and it is whether i like it or not a part of strategy. Then again, its very possibly the most annoying thing ever.....i'll be interested to see if they do anything about it.

Like you said, kickers need to be ready either way, and it shouldn't be the end of the world but they are just people like everyone else. Emotions can play a big part and they do have that high after hitting it then the uncertainty again to have to kick it again.

Billingsley26
10-09-2007, 11:18 AM
It aint even a rule!!! Its a timeout, and thats what everyone is forgetting. A team has 3 timeouts, and they can use them at any point. If they want to use it when there are 40 seconds left on the play clock or if there is 1 second left on the clock doesnt matter. It is their call.

Its not a rule, and there is nothing to change.

CannedToast
10-09-2007, 12:02 PM
I just think they need to adjust it so that the meaningless play doesn't end up going through.

One of these times someone will get injured on a meaningless kick, and then we'll see what happens.

BigDawg819
10-09-2007, 12:08 PM
We have Matt Stover who already has ice water in his veins so you can't ice him. This debate has no merit to Ravens fans.

skinzzfan25
10-09-2007, 01:47 PM
No timeouts with less than 5 seconds left on the Play clock when a Field Goal is being attempted.

That's good. But make an exception for your offense is on the field.

Stash
10-09-2007, 04:05 PM
It should be the referees decision. If he feels the defending team is attempting to wait until the last second before the snap to call a TO, they should not award them the TO.

scottyboy
10-09-2007, 04:38 PM
We have Matt Stover who already has ice water in his veins so you can't ice him. This debate has no merit to Ravens fans.

and Tynes flat out sucks anyway, so he'd probably miss the 1st one, but it wouldnt count. He'd proceed to miss the 2nd one. So for my team, it doesnt matter much, but the rule should get altered.

Freddy G
10-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Its part of the GAME.

Ahhhh, its unfair that my team lost because the other team has a smart coach, waaaaahhhhhh!

I am Browns fan and pissed that we lost to the Raiders in this fashion. But if had been us winning the game because of it, everything would be cool.

This is a game folks, and the opposing head coach shouldn't penalized for being smart and saving that final timeout.

SuperMcGee
10-09-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm just waiting for a kicker to miss on the nullified kick only to make the one that counts. I don't care much for either side of the argument, it just scares me. That's the only thing that could've made last night's finish even worse.

yodabear
10-09-2007, 05:13 PM
It is stupid ****. IDC if they call it at like 10 seconds of the play clock, but right before the snap is just annoying. The kickers could throw out their legs. GOD BLESS THE KICKERS!

Smooth Criminal
10-09-2007, 05:18 PM
So would it be a bad rule if say the kicker misses the first kick that doesn't count but makes the one that does count? It could go either way and I think the kickers should be able to handle hitting the same kick twice. They're professional kickers, if something like this can make them nervous and miss then they need to find a new line of work.

Smooth Criminal
10-09-2007, 05:20 PM
It should be the referees decision. If he feels the defending team is attempting to wait until the last second before the snap to call a TO, they should not award them the TO.


For what reason? The defense, as well as the offense, have the right to clal a timeout up until the play is snapped. I see no reason to add yet another rule to a game that is starting to have way to many restrictions on it.

619
10-09-2007, 06:21 PM
cost my raiders the game against the broncos omg

CannedToast
10-09-2007, 06:30 PM
i think it's been said a couple times, but not angrily enough.

i don't see how anyone in their right mind can support a rule against calling a timeout whenever a team wants during the game, if the ball has yet to be snapped. the kickers can't handle the pressure? maybe the coaches should consider going for it on 4th down. kickers aren't good enough to make the kicks? maybe they should be replaced. it amazes me that people think a rule should be put in for this. do you guys also support making it illegal to call a timeout if, say, your defensive alignment isn't right on a third down? i mean, you're sort of gaining an unfair advantage since, to quote one ridiculous reason, you're not resting players or challenging a play. i mean, you should just have to play it out, right?

in fact, screw it. let's just let someone from the league office press a timeout button. it'll work like that game where you press a button repeatedly until a buzzer goes off at some random point. i mean, why let any team ever use a timeout it conserved through the game to it's advantage? what kind of crack are you people smoking?

I'll state my opinion again:

I think that doing this is fine, but there should be a way so that the play doesn't end up going through. Football is dangerous, and people can get badly injured on any given play, and I don't think they should have to do that for a play that doesn't even really "exist" in context of the game.

LonghornsLegend
10-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Honestly its not even really a surprise anymore if you prepare for it, tell your team and the kicker, "hey you may need to make this twice, since their going to call a timeout"...and its not as much of a surprise, but like people have been saying, it hasnt worked out in the other manner yet, but i guarantee the FIRST time it happens, watch coaches start to calm down with doing it...its only going to take one time, and everyone will blast their coach for not just letting the team play, he tried to over strategize and it cost them the game, so let the coach do what they choose with the timeouts they have left...when they get burned its also on them too, and the other team wont be complaining at all about the rule

scottyboy
10-09-2007, 06:35 PM
cost my raiders the game against the broncos omg

thats your punishment for being a raiders fan

KILLERSANTA
10-09-2007, 06:38 PM
Folking doesn't miss, So I don't care....



They should change the rule!

619
10-09-2007, 06:41 PM
thats your punishment for being a raiders fan

shut up were in first place in our division haha

Eaglez.Fan
10-09-2007, 06:53 PM
I can't wait for someone to miss the 1st and hit the 2nd.

And to the actual question I agree with njx.

CannedToast
10-09-2007, 07:27 PM
sure, but that seems to be an entirely different issue. perhaps officials need to be better prepared ro make sure players know the play is off. *shrug* i don't know what the solution to that would be, but it seems to be outside the issue of "should calling a last second timeout be legal".

I never said my opinion had anything to do with whether it was legal or not, but that wasn't even really the main point of the thread.

I just thought that if others got to say the same thing 50 times, I would say mine twice.

JK17
10-09-2007, 07:30 PM
I'll state my opinion again:

I think that doing this is fine, but there should be a way so that the play doesn't end up going through. Football is dangerous, and people can get badly injured on any given play, and I don't think they should have to do that for a play that doesn't even really "exist" in context of the game.

Well there's really no way to fix that, unless you can ensure every single player hears the whistle at the same exact time. I mean, it happens on false starts too, where one or two guys dont hear the plays over and keep going at it, as if it were live. There's really no way to prevent that.

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 07:43 PM
nah, it's horrible the way it is. Have a designated time pre-snap or take timeout control away from the coach in this scenario. Have a defensive player call it instead...all this is doing is pissing people off and causing drama. Do away with the current "rule".

This has happened three times in the NFL already this season and two or three times in college. Enough is enough. Let's see what happens when something like this happens in a playoff game...we'll never hear the end of it.

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 07:51 PM
so what, should coaches never allowed to call timeouts? that's ridiculous and nonsensical.

I said in this specific scenario...

Brent
10-09-2007, 07:51 PM
I would hope that as a professional kicker, such a thing wouldn't affect your kicking.

JK17
10-09-2007, 07:54 PM
I said in this specific scenario...

Yeah, but how can you judge what scenario's the coach can call a timeout in? Who is going to be the judge of that anyway? Is a coach going to have to hope an official thinks the scenario is worthy of calling a timeout in? What about the other way around, should the FG kicking team now not be allowed to call a timeout and let the kicker think things over? What if the defensive coordinator wants to do a different strategy? He can't use his timeout now because its too close to the snap? How do you judge what scenarios are appropriate and what arent?

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-09-2007, 07:55 PM
I find it funny.Unless its against Oakland.
One of these days the K is gonna miss it the first time and then make it the 2nd time.

Smokey Joe
10-09-2007, 08:01 PM
i don't mind it in the least bit... It adds more strategy to the game.

JETS5128
10-09-2007, 08:03 PM
Yeah, but how can you judge what scenario's the coach can call a timeout in? Who is going to be the judge of that anyway? Is a coach going to have to hope an official thinks the scenario is worthy of calling a timeout in? What about the other way around, should the FG kicking team now not be allowed to call a timeout and let the kicker think things over? What if the defensive coordinator wants to do a different strategy? He can't use his timeout now because its too close to the snap? How do you judge what scenarios are appropriate and what arent?

Exactly, i think that something needs to be done, but it's almost impossible to get the rule perfect

Jonathan_VIlma
10-09-2007, 08:03 PM
Schlereth makes a good point, as well as other people within this thread.

For one, all kickers do is kick field goals. They don't practice with the team, and I doubt they are sweating their asses off kicking field goals and doing kickoffs for an hour a day at camp.

Another good point, is that it's the teams choice to save their timeouts to do this.

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 08:04 PM
Yeah, but how can you judge what scenario's the coach can call a timeout in? Who is going to be the judge of that anyway? Is a coach going to have to hope an official thinks the scenario is worthy of calling a timeout in? What about the other way around, should the FG kicking team now not be allowed to call a timeout and let the kicker think things over? What if the defensive coordinator wants to do a different strategy? He can't use his timeout now because its too close to the snap? How do you judge what scenarios are appropriate and what arent?

I dont think defensive coords. are going to want to change defensive scheme on a feild goal attempt that often. Anyway, I'd say...like any field goal attempt within a minute or so at the end of a half or the game would make up the scenario. There is no reason to take timeout control away from the kicking team just the defensive coaching side. That is where the problem is occuring after all. I dont see a problem with having a defensive player having that control before the snap. It would work fine. It needs to be fixed and I'm sure it will be in some fashion.

JK17
10-09-2007, 08:06 PM
I dont think defensive coords. are going to want to change defensive scheme on a feild goal attempt that often. Anyway, I'd say...like any field goal attempt within a minute or so at the end of a half or the game would make up the scenario. There is no reason to take timeout control away from the kicking team just the defensive coaching side. That is where the problem is occuring after all. I dont see a problem with having a defensive player having that control before the snap. It would work fine. It needs to be fixed and I'm sure it will be in some fashion.

Okay....but now what if this happens, and someone mentioned it before but I don't know remember who...

Your team is up by 2 points, on your own ten yard line. It's 4th down with 38 seconds left, and you're going to have to punt it away. The other team has three timeouts. But you rush into field goal formation, before they can move. Who cares if its even the kicker in there, put your QB at K....watch the clock tick away, because the defense can't call a timeout now.

There is no way to make a fool-proof rule in this situation.

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 08:13 PM
Okay....but now what if this happens, and someone mentioned it before but I don't know remember who...

Your team is up by 2 points, on your own ten yard line. It's 4th down with 38 seconds left, and you're going to have to punt it away. The other team has three timeouts. But you rush into field goal formation, before they can move. Who cares if its even the kicker in there, put your QB at K....watch the clock tick away, because the defense can't call a timeout now.

There is no way to make a fool-proof rule in this situation.

what? That would have to be incorporated in the rule somewhere. That doesnt seem very likely. You can write that the field goal attempt must take place in opposing territory. You can make a full-proof rule...it's really not that difficult. That would obviously be addressed before the rule was even put into effect...they woulnt let a loophole like that get through to the field.

Also, I'm sure defensive players are aware enough to call a timeout if there is two seconds left on 4th down.

JK17
10-09-2007, 08:18 PM
what? That would have to be incorporated in the rule somewhere. That doesnt seem very likely. You can write that the field goal attempt must take place in opposing territory. You can make a full-proof rule...it's really not that difficult. That would obviously be addressed before the rule was even put into effect...they woulnt let a loophole like that get through to the field.

Okay, but now if the kicker is kicking a deeper then usual field goal, he can get iced the same way. What if they are on the 49.999 yard line, and would otherwise have punted? Who judges what distance the kick should come from for no timeout to be called? There would be a loop hole somewhere, or a restriction that shouldn't be placed on a coach calling a timeout.

The bottom line is how do you tell a coach he can't call a timeout after a certian point? I don't get that, what if he just doesn't like the personel he's got out there on the field, or he wants to overload a different side then he did and he has to stop play to do it? You can say "I doubt that he'd be that unprepared" but you can't restrict him from using a timeout to better strategize if he is unprepared....who is to say when a coach can realize something that might help his team win, and why shouldn't he be able to seize the opportunity...Even if 99% of the times, its just being used to ice the kicker, what if that 1% where a coach realizes something brillaint is in the Super Bowl, and his team gets cost a Super Bowl victory because he wasn't allowed to use one of his timeouts, that he saved. I think there would be a lot of uproar about that...


Edit: And I just saw the edit about defensive players being smart enough to call timeout on 4th down...how can you presuppose they are? How do you know how quickly the other team alligns in FG formation, or what their FG formation is? There is no standard formation they have to follow on FG's, what if they just make sure there are enough people on the line, and claim its a FG attempt?

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 08:27 PM
Your making it more difficult than it actual is. You could even set it up that coaches still have timeout control but, must have an actual designated time to call it in. This is fixable and I def. believe it will be. It's a problem and it's spreading now.

JK17
10-09-2007, 08:28 PM
Your making it more difficult than it actual is. You could even set it up that coaches still have timeout control but, must have an actual designated time to call it in. This is fixable and I def. believe it will be. It's a problem and it's spreading now.

I think your oversimplifying it, but I have a feeling from here on out we just continue disagreeing. I just don't think you can restrict a coach on what times he can realize something he wants to change.

TACKLE
10-09-2007, 08:29 PM
Deal with it. It's a great strategic move and you can't make a rule to stop it. Stop what, what if they kick they field goal with 18 seconds left on the play clock. What teams need to do is get their field goal team out thier quickly, wait about 10-15 seconds then kick it. It takes anticipation because the coach has to call it just before the center snaps it. If he can't do that, it won't work. I don't have a problem with it.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/edwards_herman0108.jpg

M.O.T.H.
10-09-2007, 08:35 PM
Okay...I guess we'll agree to disagree but, this has already been causing uproar around the league. I def. believe it will be corrected by next season.