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View Full Version : Who Do You Blame For This?


Xiomera
10-11-2007, 04:02 PM
Which of our coaches do you blame most for the way this season has played out thus far?

Xiomera
10-11-2007, 04:21 PM
To quote from a post I made earlier today in a different thread:


I am becomming more and more convinced that Marinelli is not fit to be a Head Coach. His in-game decision making is atrocious at times. He challenges all the wrong plays (like that Lehman forced PR fumble last week), he isn't aggressive enough when he needs to be, and the fact that he has NEVER been a Head Coach at ANY LEVEL of football is apparent in watching him. He may be a good motivator from Monday to Saturday in practice, and he might preach all the ideals that every good coach should preach, but when I see him on Sunday's and during press conferences, the only thing I am thinking is, "Hey, this guy would make an excellent Defensive Coordinator."

See the problem?

Marinelli is the guy that I point the finger at most among the coaches.

619
10-11-2007, 04:24 PM
marinelli is a good fit to be an elite defensive coordinator for any team...head coach however he is not qualified enough and the same goes for the other two on this poll for that position as well

WMD
10-11-2007, 05:32 PM
It's not like we have amazing talent all around and are under performing.. We've won more games than our 'On Paper' Talent says we should.. The Passing Offense has single handedly carried us to three victories (with help from 3 terrible QB's), and Mike Martz is that reason.. So, I "Blame" Mike Martz for the way the season has turned out.. in a good way. Any other OC and we're 2-3 or worse.

TacticaLion
10-11-2007, 09:19 PM
Wait... blame? Sure, I've been negative after the Redskins loss, but I don't think "blame" is a good word for a 3-2 start. "Credit", maybe... like: "Who do I credit for leading us to a 3-2 start"... but not "blame".

If I had to point out the weakest point of our coaching staff, it would HAVE to be Martz... and, mainly, for the points that Xiomera made.I am becomming more and more convinced that Marinelli is not fit to be a Head Coach. His in-game decision making is atrocious at times. He challenges all the wrong plays (like that Lehman forced PR fumble last week), he isn't aggressive enough when he needs to be, and the fact that he has NEVER been a Head Coach at ANY LEVEL of football is apparent in watching him.Barry manages the defense and Martz manages the offense. The aspects of the game that Marinelli controls (game challenges, motivation, mindset, players/personnel, public view) have been handled very well (the only negative being the game challenges... and that'll come with time and experience). He's turned the culture of the team around and has the players (his players) believing in his direction and mindset... and the public notices it.

Barry has done a LOT with a little so far this season. We've got a ton of takeaways and the defense has made big plays. Sure, it needs some work... but, considering the players we have, we couldn't ask for much more. Timely sacks, blocked FGs, INTs for TDs... it could be a lot worse.

So, I think Martz has been the weakest point so far this season. First of all, hes hesitated to play to the strengths of the offense at times. And, instead of settling for FGs, he has asked Kitna to throw in the red zone game after game (which is hard to do). Not only that, but he doesn't seem to be trying to protect Kitna when he gets pressure from a specific side (additional TE/RB help). The offense has been incredible at times... but has been horrible others... and that falls on Martz. "Offensive Genius"? Ok... just show me some offensive consistency first.

Before the season, how many of us thought we'd actually be 3-2? Eagles, Bears, Redskins, Vikings, Raiders... 3-2? Not likely. Sure, some of us thought we COULD be, but we're here now... and we have 3 wins out of our 5 games. Not bad. At all. The team has showed that it'll continue to fight to win games, something it didn't do the past few years. The players look excited and seem to believe in themselves and the rest of the team, and that's something new for Detroit. Oh... and, the past two drafts have given us some great players.

Who do I "credit" for the transformation of the Lions (and the 3-2 record)? Marinelli.

detroit4life
10-11-2007, 10:00 PM
I agree with tactica. Blame? I dont understand how we go from loving this team and its coaches to hating them with everyweek. We win and everyones happy but when we loose we all act as if the seasons over. The fact is we are 3-2 and second place in our division. And to add to that our team is not very good. Our defense is a sieve that any decent QB has shown can pick it apart and our oline still cannot block. IMO these coaches have done a good job so for. Martz got out mathed against the Redskins so if you want to say blame for the last game i would say him. But for the season no blame should be placed because so far we are overachieving.

bearsfan_51
10-11-2007, 10:03 PM
Bring back Wayne Fontes.

Iamcanadian
10-11-2007, 11:47 PM
Little early to be blaming people. I'm not a Marinelli lover but we are better and I'm willing to give him a true shot.

Any blame for anything about the Lions is a 2 headed monster:

WILLIAM FORD and MATT MILLEN

Coaches under these 2 incompetents are just scapegoats for their own ineptness.

TacticaLion
10-12-2007, 09:54 AM
The Passing Offense has single handedly carried us to three victories (with help from 3 terrible QB's), and Mike Martz is that reason...I disagree (a lot) with this.

Yes, our offense has been "effecient" in our wins, but it's our defense that won us those games.
Raiders: INT by White on the game-tying drive, followed by a sack/fumble by White on the comeback drive. Rogers also had a blocked FG in the game, and Fisher had an INT. (I probably forgot a few...)

Vikings: the secondary played well (4 INTs?), but it was Rogers' fumble recovery in OT that set us up for the winning FG. Without that, the drive would've either continued or they would've punted us deep... which would've made things harder. (Yes, Tavaris struggled in the game... but we made Campbell and a struggling McNabb look like All Stars.)

Bears: a INT-6 by Smith put us up 17-13 and, without the KR for a TD by Fitz, the Bears' would've had the ball for a final drive. The D also had 3 INTs.

So, as much as our offense "performed", I give those wins to the defense. They either put us up or put the game away when we needed it most.

(A few notes about our offense: in terms of YPG, we're 13th in the NFL. Points per game? 11th. We also have the second worst 3rd Down % in the NFL. Is our offense "good"? Yes. Can it be "great"? Sure. But, with the talent we have and the focus we've put into it, it isn't nearly as good as it should be. Martz may be an "offensive genius", but he needs to put his "genius" to work.)

And, as far as our defense goes, we're tied for second in the NFL with 9 INTs, have recovered 5 fumbles (T-4th in the NFL) and have 14 sacks (T-7th in the NFL). For being one of the "worst defenses in the NFL", I feel we've had an outstanding year so far.

bearsfan_51
10-12-2007, 12:39 PM
You're also conveniently leaving out the fact that you're 31st in PPG at 31, and 29th in YPG 378.6.

If you give up, on average 31 points per game and over 370 yards, that's terrible.

TacticaLion
10-12-2007, 01:02 PM
You're also conveniently leaving out the fact that you're 31st in PPG at 31, and 29th in YPG 378.6.

If you give up, on average 31 points per game and over 370 yards, that's terrible.Our two losses were complete blowouts... which have swayed those numbers a bit. If you focus only on the Giants-Eagles game, Osi averages 6 sacks a game... yet only has 7 this year.

My point was that our defense has exceeeded expectations, not that our defense is one of the NFL's elite. We have minimal talent on defense but have still taken the ball away and made some big plays when we needed them the most. And, considering our personnel, I think our defense has outperformed our offense.

Xiomera
10-12-2007, 01:28 PM
I understand that we are 3-2, and that is considered good by Lions standards, but at the same time, it's quite clear we are still a team that barely beats the bad teams and gets destroyed by the teams that are any good.

All of our old problems still seem to exist.

WMD
10-12-2007, 03:36 PM
Our two losses were complete blowouts... which have swayed those numbers a bit. If you focus only on the Giants-Eagles game, Osi averages 6 sacks a game... yet only has 7 this year.

My point was that our defense has exceeeded expectations, not that our defense is one of the NFL's elite. We have minimal talent on defense but have still taken the ball away and made some big plays when we needed them the most. And, considering our personnel, I think our defense has outperformed our offense.

Our defense has exceeded expectations against piss poor terrible ass butt doo doo offenses. How many picks did Josh McCown, Tarvaris Jackson, and Brian Griese throw? How many picks did Donovan McNabb and Jason Campbell throw?

TacticaLion
10-12-2007, 06:41 PM
Our defense has exceeded expectations against piss poor terrible ass butt doo doo offenses. How many picks did Josh McCown, Tarvaris Jackson, and Brian Griese throw? How many picks did Donovan McNabb and Jason Campbell throw?So, in other words, if our defense does well but against an average-below average QB... it's because of the QB and not the defense. But, if our defense gets torched... it's because of our defense and not the talent on the opposing offense?

Of course.

There's always an excuse or reason to say why something (a team, unit or player) was successful... but, the bottom line is that they did well and made big plays for us. We played some "average-below average QBs", but at least we capitalized on the mistakes and made plays.

Iamcanadian
10-12-2007, 11:07 PM
Let's just stick with the positive, 3-2 and not worry about how we are winning. If we continue to win just be happy because it doesn't happen often, if we start to lose, then we can return to our ways and complain about what isn't working.

WMD
10-13-2007, 03:41 AM
Let's start with our Defense sucking. Bad QB's make bad throws and make bad defenses look good. Good QB's make good throws and make bad defenses look bad.

TacticaLion
10-13-2007, 09:35 AM
Let's start with our Defense sucking. Bad QB's make bad throws and make bad defenses look good. Good QB's make good throws and make bad defenses look bad.
The NFL has both bad and good QBs. If our defense is bad (which many say it is), but can take advantage of the mistakes made from the bad QBs in the NFL, I'd say thats a credit to them.

Our defense was a big factor in our 3 wins... and that says something. It could be much worse than 3-2 right now... and, without the play of our defense, it would be.

Addict
10-15-2007, 11:30 AM
can I choose to blame my parents and then remind you guys we're still 3-2 and given our overall talent level (which is impoving, but still poor) and last years' results is a great record.

TacticaLion
10-15-2007, 08:09 PM
can I choose to blame my parents and then remind you guys we're still 3-2 and given our overall talent level (which is impoving, but still poor) and last years' results is a great record.
Haha... blame your parents... funny stuff. Wish you could go back and change it at the start?

I'll take 3-2. We could be 2-3, or 1-4, or 0-5... but we're 3-2.

detknowitall
10-21-2007, 10:05 AM
We're in our second year of a defensive system. And we are a top team in takeaways. We're in our second year of an Offensive system and we have a top offense in terms of yards gained and Pts/gm. We're 3-2 and second in our division. And you want to "Blame" someone? It took the Bears 3 years to learn the Tampa 2, It took Tampa 4 years to learn the Tampa 2, it took the Colts 3 years under Dungy to get it. It took the St. Louis 3 years with Martz to become the Greatest show on turf. Which had a significantly better O-Line at that time. Is there really a reason here to blame anyone for making progress in our second year in a system???

This is stupid to try and blame anyone of the coaches for anything.

LionSmack
10-21-2007, 10:08 AM
If you're asking, "who do you blame for this horrible season?" my answer is, it's not horrible enough to blame anyone. But if you're asking "who do you blame for the Lions not being one of the top teams," then obviously it's Millen. He dug a hole so deep that even with the minor strides the Lions have made this season, they're still pretty far down the list.

Again, I think we knew this ahead of time. Anyone who expected the Lions to become one of the best teams in the league and be beyond mistakes or negativity was fooling themselves. I didn't hear anyone on this board saying they would be. Therefore there is no one to blame for them not doing so.

TacticaLion
10-21-2007, 03:02 PM
We're in our second year of a defensive system. And we are a top team in takeaways. We're in our second year of an Offensive system and we have a top offense in terms of yards gained and Pts/gm. We're 3-2 and second in our division. And you want to "Blame" someone? It took the Bears 3 years to learn the Tampa 2, It took Tampa 4 years to learn the Tampa 2, it took the Colts 3 years under Dungy to get it. It took the St. Louis 3 years with Martz to become the Greatest show on turf. Which had a significantly better O-Line at that time. Is there really a reason here to blame anyone for making progress in our second year in a system???

This is stupid to try and blame anyone of the coaches for anything.
Word for word. Outstanding post.

detknowitall
10-21-2007, 04:33 PM
Word for word. Outstanding post.

Thank you.

Crickett
10-21-2007, 04:52 PM
I blame Mike Martz for the Lions 4-2 start. He's completely at fault for that.

Addict
10-21-2007, 05:19 PM
I think it's a good thing that the team is showing resillience, this is a young team, with a boatload of holes, still managing 4 wins to me is huge, it's gonna be a terrible, tough season for us from here on out, since we're through the softest part of our schedule (although troubled Chicago may give us a W).

It's only gonna get harder from this point onwards, so let's enjoy our 4-2 while it lasts, since it might change to 4-12 over the rest of the season.

Xiomera
10-21-2007, 07:50 PM
Yeah . . . is it really fair to bash me for making this thread now that we just won? I created this after Washington stomped us and the faults in our team were glaring . . .

yodabear
10-21-2007, 07:52 PM
U Guys Are 4-2!

TacticaLion
10-22-2007, 05:24 PM
Yeah . . . is it really fair to bash me for making this thread now that we just won? I created this after Washington stomped us and the faults in our team were glaring . . .We aren't bashing you at all, Xiomera... blame could certainly be handed out and for a few reasons:

We hardly addressed our linebacker and secondary positions in the offseason (arguably the weakest positions on the team) and it's showing.

Our offensive line has surrendered the most sacks in the NFL... a problem thats existed for the last few years (and has gone, for the most part, ignored).

We've lacked a running game.

There is reason for blame... but I think most of us are satisfied with a 3-2 (4-2) start. We were blown out by Philly and Wash, but came-from-behind against the Raiders, Vikes and (wow) Bears. Coach Marinelli has also made a few poor decisions, and it looks as if Martz is outsmarting himself. Blame could be handed out to a variety of people, but winning is great and we've been doing that (at least) this year.

detknowitall
10-23-2007, 12:25 PM
Yeah . . . is it really fair to bash me for making this thread now that we just won? I created this after Washington stomped us and the faults in our team were glaring . . .


For the record most of the posts occurred prior to the Game against Tampa.